#i'll also say that it's perfectly fine to ship characters that didn't have any screen time or chemistry in canon

[itswhatyougive]

I saw some people be like "gweeehhhhhhh Steddie shippers built that whole ship in their minds, it's fanon only, they had no chemistry in the show, they barely had any connection at all "

And it's actually really funny, because I humor them and think, "hmm, was it all in my mind all along?" and rewatch S4.

Then I feel soooooo validated upon rewatching. It actually gets even better and more obvious every time I see it.

[theflyindutchwoman]

The road to Chenford - The Love Interests

Let me preface this (very) long post by saying this is only my opinion. This is about how I interpret the whole Chenford arc. The show is vague enough that pretty much all interpretations are valid. But if you feel differently, that's perfectly fine.

There's a lot of things that made me fall in love with Chenford, and I'll talk more about it in another post. But one aspect I found intriguing was the way the different love interests Lucy and Tim had throughout the show were used. Usually love interests are brought as a plot device to separate the main characters and bring all the angst... It's something that pretty much every TV shows do. The jealousy trope has to be one of the most common one... And yet, here, it was never really used the usual way.

Let's start at the beginning.

// Isabel & Nolan

It is rather interesting that we got love interests for both Lucy and Tim right from the start (probably because Chenford was unplanned). And how much their story is still impacted by that. With Isabel, we had front row seat to the trauma her addiction was having on Tim : the spiralling, the heartbreak, the guilt and the walls he had to put up to protect himself. But we also witnessed how far his loyalty goes and how deeply he can love. It was an important tool to give us some insight on a character that could otherwise have been a stereotype. And from there, we were able to get a view of what he is looking for : someone who can love him just as much, who will fight for him and who will make him feel like he's enough. With Nolan, we saw a completely different side of love. The hot affair (their words, not mine), the sneaking around and the impact it could have on Lucy's career. And what she wants is explained during the breakup fight : someone who thinks she is worth fighting for. Lucy is not upset because she is being dumped, she had come to the same conclusion after all. It's how easily Nolan seems to be able to discard her and their relationship that truly hurt her.

Now, the irony is her arc was supposed to be for her relationship with John… Kudos to the writers for adapting it seamlessly to Chenford. It is quite uncanny. On one hand, we had one relationship that was formed while they were rookies and made it work until UC work destroyed it ; on the other hand, we had one who flamed out before it could even truly start. If they keep Lucy doing UC work, I really hope we will have some conversation between Chenford to tie up this part of their arc : they both need to be reassured that the work won't come between them, because in the end, that was the downfall for their first (on-screen) romance.

(Little side note : I understand Alexi might have planned for NoChen to be endgame, and as much as we give him shit, as we should it's what keep showrunners honest, I appreciate that not only he agreed to change that part of his plan (the last true shipping moment for NoChen was in 1.12 I think, so really early), he was graceful enough not to destroy Chenford out of spite or even downplay their bond (he could have had John save Lucy in Day of Death, have her stay with him after Jackson's death etc). I'm not saying it's all perfect. And I'm sure he protested. But imagine creating a story around the main couple, only to realise that one part of that couple has more chemistry and works better with another character. With the exception of Fillion, I doubt he had any say about the casting. And even if he did, chemistry tests only work so far (Melissa and Eric probably didn't even have one). My past experience with showrunners is that they'd rather kill their show and blame the audience for being too stupid than admit they're wrong or should change their plans... The past few years are full of cautionary tales of TV shows that burned down. He may have been petty about it on his interviews, I don't read them so I can't say, but at least it didn't let it impact on the story. Cheers to that I guess).

// Rachel & Emmett

After the trauma Tim experienced, it was a nice change of pace to see him in an uncomplicated relationship, see him relax and simply enjoy himself. With Rachel, it was all about healing and it's not by mistake that Lucy set him up with someone she knows to be easy-going, calm and nurturing if we consider her job (I know it was for a bet and she didn't exactly choose Rachel. But do we think she would have done this if she didn't think it could be a good thing?). And we can never have too much of Tim smiling. Or shirtless Tim. We saw Lucy interfere even more - with Isabel, she got caught in the middle at first, she didn't really decide to cross his personal boundaries on her own. She was just trying to help Tim not go down with the ship. But we did learn that she kept in touch with his ex-wife. With Rachel, she had a direct hand in the set-up and she did soften some of his edges as well (the birthday gift for instance). Most importantly, it never had a negative impact on Chenford. If anything it brought them closer. But in the end, we saw the same problem that with Isabel : Tim was not enough. Rachel put her career first (nothing wrong with that by the way!). The red flag, so to speak, was the clear lack of communication : she never mentioned to Tim being interested by a job in New-York, let alone warned him about the interview. I mean, if you're seriously committed, a conversation beforehand might have been nice. And while Tim entertains her idea of them moving, it seems to be more by curiosity. We don't really see him hesitate or have a full grown-up talk about how they should move forward. The ending was… Well.. Hey does Rachel even know they broke up? Cos we didn't! So who knows! Jokes aside, I wonder if we were supposed to see her again in season 03 but with COVID, they changed it. Still could have been nice to have her name mentioned at one point.

Now, Emmett was supposed to be a mirror to Rachel : Tim's friend and a healing step in Lucy's journey. After what she went through with Caleb, seeing her be able to take that step forward was really great. Flirty and carefree Lucy is the best. I wished we had seen a little more of them (the actor got a main part on another show + Covid rules = not possible) so it was less abrupt. Having Emmett treat Lucy as someone in need of protection was also a nice callback to Nolan, who broke up with her "to protect her". No comment on the breakup by text. That's just petty. Although I did like he involved Tim in it... I wonder how that meeting went.

// Ashley & Chris

All right, there goes the very unpopular opinion : I actually didn't mind them. Much. I mean I could have done without them, but since we never really had to see their full respective relationship, Lucy or Tim being pretty much always around, it worked for me. Mainly. Don't get me wrong, I'm mostly indifferent towards Ashley because she was just dull. And I dispised Chris cos he reminded me of so many people I met in law school, it's not even funny (right down to the lack of empathy and inability to read the room. So spooky). It's the journey that I didn't mind.

After Angela's wedding and Lucy staying at Tim's place, the attraction between Chenford was front and center. But as I will talk about in my other post, I don't think they were ready to go there (grief is not the best foundation). And the writers didn't want to either, so that's moot. Now, as I said earlier, the most common trope in TV shows is to introduce new love interests to play up the tension and jealousy, have some pining on the side… And after the revelation in 3.14/4.01, it would have been the perfect timing. Only we didn't get this here, hence the frustration that I think many experienced. What's the point of having to suffer if we don't get the goodies.

Except, like I said, I absolutely love we didn't go the typical route. Why? Because jealousy is rarely written properly on TV. More often than not, you end up with people being used, hurt, acting childish and/or petty. Not a really good look for all the characters involved. It gets even worse when the ship still don't get together after all that hustle. I love angst, but come on. So instead of the promised angst, we kept on the same path than with Rachel and Emmett : the progression of Chenford's bond. It was never about Ashley and Chris. It was always about Lucy and Tim's story and how they were different and the perfect person. How their bond was special and how they NOT ONCE wondered if they should spend less time together. Even after the double date. Especially after the double date. They are close, period. They're willing to make efforts for Ash or Chris, but not change their interaction between them. It was about how, despite love interests, they were still each other's person and the one constant. And to me, that is so much more powerful.

Case in point. 4.06 - Ash is introduced but the episode spends more time about the bet between Tim & Lucy 4.08 - About Lucy finding out Ash is now in the picture (who is not even present on screen) 4.10 - About Lucy's dog even though she only had him for a couple of days so it should be irrelevant and yet it's not. And how Lucy helps Tim navigates in his relationship (when clearly he is half assing it). 4.11 - About Lucy trying to help young adults in-need and Tim helping her with Tamara instead of belittling her 4.12 - All about how Lucy and Tim are each other's safe place 4.15 - About Lucy being at the right job and doing it well (and about Chris willing to cut corners to get the job done when we saw Tim refused to do the same in previous episodes) 4.17 - About how Tim was able to empower Lucy through her ordeal instead of triggering her like a certain ADA who should not even had access to her file in the first place, because hello conflict of interest 4.21 - About the next step they are supposed to take in their respective relationship but clearly are nowhere near that headspace (as much as Tim says he can himself marrying Ash, the boy was still panicking throughout the episode at the mere idea… So who are you trying to convince here?! And Lucy shutting that parent meeting so fast) 4.22 / 5.01 - What significant others? Don't know them. Who's dying on the couch? 5.02 - How Tim is the one who truly knows her and whose opinion she values the most 5.03 - How Tim is missing her 5.05 - How Lucy is the one always staying 5.06 - How Lucy can find ways to make him feel better 5.08 - How Tim can immediately see she's uncomfortable and help her talk things through as she needs to do 5.09 - How Tim knows her taste

Now could it have been done better? Yes. I think the execution got lost in the middle. It could have been clearer and sharper. And I can absolutely see how it was frustrating to have to go through other LI, especially if you ship then since season 01. And could it have been done without Ashley and Chris? Sure. But I can understand Tim and Lucy wanting to date other people (especially if like me, you think they were still mainly unaware of their feelings. Attraction, yes. Romantic feelings, not yet... For me. It's clearly up for interpretation).

By not going the traditional route, we also avoided some pitfalls and do some disservice to what is otherwise a mature and healthy relationship. And I really love that we didn't go with the easy evil trope. Lucy and Tim have enough trauma to work through the rest of their lives… Having Chris being a minion for Rosalind would have set them both back. Lucy would have to go through all that process again and Tim would only have more guilt on this plate. Not to mention that having them end up together because they're the only person they can now fully trust is not exactly the best foundation. Are they together because they want to? Or because they don't trust anyone else? Considering all their lingering doubts from their previous relationships, that's definitely not what they needed for their own personal growth. Besides, I doubt it's the last time we've seen Chris : the door was wide open when he left Lucy's place, and I don't think it was by coincidence. So we are going to have some mess on our hands... And I much prefer having it with Chenford as one unit. But then again, personal preferences here.

Anyway, not saying it was perfect. It was downright messy at some points… I also wonder if Ash and Chris got introduced because we lost Rachel and Emmett somewhere in the process.

And in the end, Ashley and Chris were instrumental to Chenford getting together. But that's for my other post, this one is already long enough!

I hope I didn't make too many mistakes by the way! I was a little nervous to post this.

[tokufan400]

Personal take: I'm kind of glade non of the Calamity girls ended up with each other

This is not a bashing of the ship or those that ship them, this is just my personal take. My main reasons for why I don't ship any of them is because of how toxic they where before they came to Amphibia and how little time we get with them on screen together. Outside of flashbacks, we only get the three of them together two times through the show: When they where waiting in Wartwood and in the final episodes. Not a lot of time for romance to blossom. The other reason is how toxic they where to each other. Sasha was controlling, Anne was a doormat, and Marcy was to clingy. They cared for each other sure, that was never a question. The problem is that, at some point, the friendship was warped into something negative. Hell, even Anne points out how her and Sasha not giving Marcy's interest an honest shot was one of the reasons she felt the need to get them stranded in Amphibia. Thier's also the fact that they didn't really have time to actually talk out their problems and what was wrong. Anne and Sasha, sure, but that was during a war to save the multiverse. Not a lot of time to comfortably talk about how Sasha treated them. They didn't even get a chance to talk to Marcy about what she did either. As soon as all three of them where together, they had to go fight a Core powered moon. Before anyone asks, yes. They could have talked things out and gotten together off screen, but that would be cheap to me. It robs the audience of seeing Anne, Marcy, and Sasha sit down and talk about how they feel, realizing how they feel, and working out as a couple. We would have been robbed of some good romantic character moments. It would be like what they did with Starco and Mordecai's wife: They got together, sure, but by that point it was to late or the show would be over. Their would be no time for the audience to see the relationship to develop. Finally, and this is more of a selfish reason: The toxic side of things. I'll come out and say it: I have seen my fair share of toxic Calamity shippers. I'm afraid that giving them the ship they want would just empower them to attack more fans just because they don't ship the girls together. Is this petty? Maybe, but I hate the idea of fans getting attacked in any shape or form just because they have a different opinion. Their you have it. Note: This IS NOT AN ATTACK ON ANY ONE THAT SHIPS THE GIRLS TOGETHER. I wrote this to give my two cents on the Calamity girls getting shipped together. If you ship them, that's perfectly fine. Just don't attack other fans for feeling the opposite way.

[kim-ruzek]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read somewhere that you aren't a fan of Upstead. Can I ask why? Do you prefer Linstead over Upstead?

You are most definitely not wrong, I am indeed not a fan of upstead! And of course you can ask why.

First of all, the linstead over upstead question is technically a little complicated but the short answer is yes, because I have actually shipped Linstead and I've never shipped upstead (except once in season five sdfgbjk). And before I get into everything, I thought I should answer this briefly first then expand later.

The short answer for why I'm not a fan of upstead boils down to they bore me, they don't inspire any of those eee ship feels in me and, for me, the writing. But that doesn't really go into depth so I will for you now;

So when I first watched, they just never captivated me. For starters, Jay is pretty low on my list of faves (I could happily watch tons of episodes without him in it) and Hailey just never interested me. I watched a little out of order because I watch for burzek, so she did interest me when I finally watched her introduction but that spark never got carried on. I just don't think they ultilised her well. And I hate Eid, and his showrunning, so unfortunately I think I was just doomed to not really gel to her since it's too late now. Like one of the main reasons I have affection for Hailey is because of Tracy-- not (just) because of her acting, but because she's adorable and so I love Hailey because the affection displaces onto her.

So not having much liking for the characters in the ship doesn't exactly bode well for liking it! But this is only the tip of the iceberg.

The next factor is I don't actually think they built it up well? Like I know it was building, you can see that, because that's narratively where it was going, and I understand that, but yeah. It just didn't envoke any of those ship feels and I would've been perfectly fine to see them never getting together/ just being strong partners. Yet again, this is another problem with Eid's showrunning, because the unit and the writing, it just didn't have the same strong effects, AND he had no idea really what he wanted out of Hailey which meant she changed every season and Jay became different and it just didn't help me connect to them or care.

And the whole upzek mess kinda soured things too. Just because that's not really like how I like relationships being built up and honestly I think they should've done a few more tropes in this building tensions stage of their relationship.

Another thing (which does also go into some feelings I have about Linstead too but in a different way) is that I hate how everything revolves around them. Character development is only really about them and even then-- they didn't actually develop!! Which just annoys and bores me and I just wanted them off my screen.

BUT regardless of this, I still had the attitude of, going into season eight, I just want them to be happy so if they get together yay. I mean I still have this attitude but before I'd say I was neutral and now I'm not a fan.

I'll admit, I did actually want to ship them. I knew I'd never write fic or be about them the same I am about my other oc ships, but I did want to ship them. And the build up already failed at that, but I wanted the relationship to draw me in. But it's safe to say it did not. In fact all my previous problems was just even more amplified. Their relationship was botched and frankly, imo, not well done. And they're so isolated from the rest of them team, didn't tell anyone (and the reasons for why wasn't ever discussed! Like Linstead, burzek and even upzek had reasons!) which just added to the disconnect... Especially when they got engaged.

Just this, in my mind, is not great story telling -- especially with how the show markets itself. In another set up, it would, but not what had been previously established. And that just creates a disconnect.

And any hope I had to ship them was taken when they got married. For the reasons I've said and more, but mainly because that was not what I wanted out of cpd's first wedding. It was lacklustre, and just continued to add to the disconnect. I don't have a problem with them getting married because I wanted burzek to be the first or whatever -- it's literally because how it happened. Family is a whole vibe of the show, and they didn't even have an a la dawsey style wedding with everyone there informally? It's just not what the first wedding should be like and that just ruined things for me. Especially because it just stank of Eid hurrying everything up before he left so he could have his ship married and honestly it's just a great example of how much Eid ruined things. And now we have sigan, it's still ruined for me, because she's already showing markings of being better, but this has happened now and no matter how good she is this mars it for me.

And finally: the fans-- or rather the stans. Stans can very rarely make me no longer ship something I originally did, but they can make me never have any chance to ship it if I didn't before. And this happened here. And so honestly it killed any chance for me to be a fan. PLUS y'know, when you see posts you've made torn apart and completely mocked for how you write it kinda stains things (especially if then things you say are taken out of context and sent to others and then you're sent their responses as, idk, a gotcha even though they didn't get the context) and just makes you never want to interact with their fans.

Now to touch onto linstead:

So I initially got interested in the show because of Erin. I'm a huge fan of Sophia Bush so seeing her in this made me go oh? I ended up watching for Burzek, but she was my intial draw in. So I was kinda predisposed to like Linstead. And honestly the first episode? Jay going to fight those guys for Her Honour,,, it got me. Not like burzek, or stellaride but those eeee ship feelings? The ones upstead doesn't give me? They appeared.

And honestly until I watched more of the later seasons, and when upstead was made canon, I genuinely thought I'd be the kind of writer who for long fix it fics would just always just have linstead in the background even if it doesn't get any focus. I have a lot of affection for Erin, and for the lingess friendship.

BUT I will say that Linstead irritates me sooooo much when I rewatch. I hate hate hate the focus, I had so much stuff about it, and I hate how Kim is treated and just. I do get infuriated and I do think if Erin stayed I would've ended up hating her/disliking her.

In December I wanted to do a whole rewatch of the show and now, the final day of march, I STILL haven't because I told myself I can't skip anything and God I just really don't want to sit through everything. I'm a burzek girl.

So technically I don't prefer one over the other. There's things I like about linstead that I don't about upstead and there's things about upstead I prefer over linstead. But I also think if old burzek coincided with upstead, I would've liked it better and same with if new burzek coincided with linstead.

If upstead was done better I'd say I probably would prefer them but they haven't been sooo. But honestly I'm a fan of *Erin* and a big part of me doesn't think Jay deserves her so that's a factor why I can't say I prefer linstead.

But I probably am more affectionate for them than most, and some of my fic ideas did actually double as a fix-it for Linstead too. They don't so much anymore (mainly because it brings a lot of hate to your door and I'm not emotionally strong enough to cope with that when it comes to my writing) but I still do think it'd be nice to write it like I originally intended. And honestly I might be I'm very much a if burzek is set in 1-4, then linstead is the side ship and if it's 5+ it's upstead because I don't ship one more than the other so I just go with canon. Like Linstead splitting up doesn't kill me, but upstead never being together doesn't kill me either.

Although I've never not cried at season four's ending/the beginning of season five.

Anyway! I've rambled enough so I'll end it here!!!

Thank you for sending me this!!! ❤️