#im sorry gortash just suffers

[tacogoats]

Having durge/gortash thoughts for my own dark urge, Veren in relation to their old dynamic after reading some people's Big Brain ideas in the gortash tags. Yall are so powerful

But like. Veren is a redeemed Durge and rejects his inheritance - so this is all in the flavour of New Me kind of Durge.

Veren and Gortash absolutely fucked nasty style pre-lobotomy but I'm in love the the idea they were IN LOVE too... not just the love that looks to be there in-game; where Durge was willing to stand atop a dead world with Gortash killed last - but actual total adoration that Veren actually Was going to forsake Bhaal once the plan was in full motion. Bhaal surely couldn't touch him once the world was at his fingertips, and Gortash would rule with him, right?

(Loud incorrect buzzer)

But like I really want to write some things like the theft of the Crown where Gortash has a hard time being back in Avernus and despite Veren being utterly merciless, covered in gore and just general insane murder hobo antics - he stops dead in his tracks the second he clocks Gortash's discomfort. All focus is now on getting Gortash through this as quick as possible and he's Here for him and if they need to stop It's Okay (it's not okay they are in Hell but Veren will fight anything that dares get close - gods help whatever stupid demon rounds the corner if Gortash needs a moment)

I said the Veren/Astarion dynamic is the submissive like a guard dog but like same dynamic tbh. Veren by nature is a super protective guy and will move mountains for His Special People.

I really want to write something too where, although his memories are gone of Gortash and his time together, at the coronation he recognizes Gortash is struggling with Orin and offers him a deal.

They'll team up but he has to come with them and Actually help. He can bring Steel Watchers to 'camp' (outside the Tavern) and whatever else he needs against Orin but he is Helping Actively: this comes after a night of Veren trying his damnedest to rekindle whatever the hell they had going on before that he Forgot - because despite having Astarion now, this is too golden of an oppportunity to pass up trying to manipulate *Gortash*. Astarion even gives him tips!

It doesn't go well but Gortash thinks he can manipulate what little is left of his lover and that Maybe once the stones are secure they can try to mend that once beautiful brain he loved - but he still sees little flashes of what once was and it Hurts Big Time.

Gortash witnesses the Spawn kidnapping attempt and Veren calls the whole thing on pause because they are Dealing With Cazador NOW.

Gortash recognizes that love just isn't there anymore for him; Astarion is what he used to be to whatever scraps are left of Veren. (:

I'll probably add more I'm startin to Cook

[sandycookie]

Re: Ravengard & Wyll's Contract 'Choice'

BG3 Spoilers for Act 3 & Wyll's Quest

Everyone's gotta lay off of Wyll!

Now, disclaimer, I did do things out of sequence. I never attended Gortash's coronation because 1. I was fully intent on killing him and 2. Wanted to level up and do a ton of stuff before facing him. I thought it was an obvious trap, so I decided to blow up the Steel Watch and stuff and save him for last. Apparently, Ravengard's supposed to be at the Iron Throne after the coronation, but because I never went to the coronation, my bro was still waiting beside Gortash to appoint him Archduke. This means that Ravengard's just...dead. Like, nothing you can do about it. I tried killing everyone but him and he was still hostile, and when I used Non Lethal on him he just died anyway

(Weirdly though, even though I used non-lethal on Ravengard AS WYLL who said, and I quote: "Father, no! That was no killing blow!" He talked like I just killed Ravengard? Like, no. Everyone else even says it must've been the Absolute or something, which is why he dies even with non lethal. AND YOU WERE THERE, WYLL---

I assume there's no dialog for this approach or that it just bugged out, for some reason. Either way, just really weird and also a bummer. Defo never skipping Gortash's coronation, now that I know he won't immediately kill me and that doing so doesn't mess up Wyll's quest in this way for me)

Case in point, Ravengard? More like DEADgard. Hahaha. Im sorry please don't leave

So Mizora, bonafide bitch, comes into my camp with a contract offer and whatnot. And Wyll's gotta choose between either bringing his Ravengard back to life at the cost of his soul, or letting him stay dead and breaking his contract.

As an aside, I really, REALLY hate that unlike with other companion's story quests, you HAVE to make this choice for him. There's no option where you let HIM make his own choice. Which just really rubs me the wrong way? A large theme of this game so far as been the autonomy over oneself; the freedom of choice, the freedom that one has to pursue the life one wishes to live. Most of the story's about regaining lost autonomy (since having a tadpole in your head really doesn't help with that), and so many antagonists want to strip people of their autonomy. Gortash outright says, in one of his journals, that free will is the enemy of progress, and that in order to progress to peace, that it has to be stripped in order to form a collective (and that's a fine philosophical discussion, but pursuing would make this post x25 longer).

And yes, there is the case of Astarion's personal quest, where there ISN'T an option to let him decide himself if he wants to ascend or not. There is story justification for it, since he does need your help in order to carve the runes, but speaking aside from that, I think in this instance, it's fine. At that moment, Astarion is literally being faced with two choices: 1. Live as a spawn for the rest of his life, susceptible to the sun and forced to live in the shadows, forced to constantly sate his hunger, live as he has for the past miserable 200 years, or 2. Obtain such power that he doesn't have to face the drawbacks of being a vampire, but more importantly, it's the choice that, to him, screams: You won't be hurt. That's a really tempting choice, coupled with 200 years of suffering and torture, and the fear and trauma that has instilled with Astarion. Astarion ascending is a result of his fear of being hurt, but in the process, he hurts thousands. Thus, being given the choice to let him ascend or not becomes either allowing the cycle of trauma to continue (as Cazador was abused by his master, Astarion abused by Cazador, Astarion is just the next vampire master whom will continue the cycle), killing thousands of people, or pushing Astarion to realize that he can be better than Cazador and break the cycle. He even admits that he needed that little push, because he was just too enraptured by power to think of anything but it.

TLDR; Astarion's quest does have legitimate justification as to why there isn't a 'Let him do as he wishes' option, as there is with Shadowheart's quest for example. There is absolutely no reason why you can't just let Wyll make the decision between...reviving his father at the cost of his soul, or letting him remain dead in exchange for his freedom. THIS IS THE ULTIMATE QUESTION OF AUTONOMY, one that the game has made clear, time and time again, that these choices are best made by the individual whom it affects. To be honest, this is a small thing in the larger scheme of things, but it still just really irks me.

Anyway, since I had Wyll's very fate and autonomy in my hands, I ultimately made the decision to have him break free of his contract. Bro deserves better than to be stuck in Avernus for eternity, after all, and if Ravengard is as good as everyone says, this is the choice he'd want Wyll to make as well. Ravengard's already dead, and there's no reason to disturb that for like, what? 10 more years of leadership? I was tempted to let Ravengard revive to help rebuild the city, since like, he's maybe the only noble who actually has the people's best interest at heart, but one man isn't enough to disrupt an entire system. We have revolutions for that. Jokes aside, that was the choice I came to, even if I have the nagging feeling it might not have been what Wyll would've then (but then again, I got approval from him, so maybe not). Also, I do not trust Mizora the Bitch to not do something like 'Okay Wyll, Absolute is gone, your next task is to kill your own father.' I get what they were aiming for with this choice, but for me, it was an easy one to make.

But now, oh boy boy, here we come to what REALLY irked me.

WHY IS EVERYONE SAYING WYLL SACRIFICED HIS OWN FATHER???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Firstly, there was no sacrifice at play. Like, AT ALL. Ravengard was already dead, at the gates of the City of Judgment! If anything, choosing to bring him back would be a sacrifice: you'd be sacrificing Ravengard's retirement (bc if he's as good as everyone says, he'd probably be chilling in heaven). Let the man sip pina coladas for eternity or something.

So, literally, the only sacrifice here, is Wyll sacrificing his soul to hell for an eternity to bring his father back. Wyll breaking his contract doesn't sacrifice shit. It's not going to leave him guiltless; I've no doubt that Wyll would feel guilt that he didn't save his father, but ultimately, it's like saying that letting people stay dead is a sacrifice and morally reprehensible, all because you didn't want to go to a devil and doom your soul for eternity. That doesn't logic, dude.

It's likely that this might be reaction dialog to a different choice you could've made with Wyll if you've seen Gortash's coronation, which, for the writer's sake, I hope is the case. But it's still really, really frustrating. Stop guilt-tripping Wyll like this!

Ultimately, it just felt really clunky. The Blade of Frontiers quest isn't marked completed yet, so there may yet be a chance for the writing to eek out and make me eat my words, or at least overlook it. But whatever that was, I really, really hope they can either rewrite it, or learn from it and not repeat the same mistake.

Anyways, there's an actual Essay that I have to turn in, so I'ma go do that. Thanks for reading, hope you've had a good day, and remember to stay hydrated.