#in this house we praise jonathan hickman gerry duggan and brian michael bendis

[doctorofmagic]

Hello! I’m a huge fan of both your blog and Stephen Strange! I’ve been into the comics for a good few years now and I’d like to ask (as I’ve noticed some things myself), if you believe DoomStrange is a good ship? :0 It seems like it could work in my opinion! And 2. (Sorry, im a curious person) Do you have any recommendations for comics with Victor and Stephen together that I may have missed?? Thank you!!

Greetings and thanks for asking!

Oh, my. Anon... Are... Are you asking me about my ship...? *inhales deeply*

Since you’re asking my opinion about it, I’ll definitely NOT get hold of myself. Also I’m not internally keysmashing, who told you that?

Regarding your first question. YES. DEFINITELY. ABSOLUTELY. Doomstrange is an incredible ship, mostly in canon 616. Of course, one must consider that we’re talking about a supervillain, which brings a few reservations about how healthy and problematic this kind of ship may be. That said, if you don’t mind this kind of relationship, we can proceed.

Truth be told, I’m quite soft when it comes to the old trope in which the good character becomes a source of redemption to the villain. I can’t stress enough how important Stephen is to Victor’s character development. And yes, in canon.

Since the very beginning, even before their first encounter, there’s a certain admiration that comes both ways. Though Victor still exhales his colossal ego through every word, he considers the possibility of becoming Stephen’s apprentice when Clea leaves. This is so important for two reasons: first, because Victor NEVER submits to people. Secondly, because he keeps track on Stephen. He has this peculiar, growing interest in him. We have an entire page dedicated to his conflict in Doctor Strange - Master of the Mystic Arts #57 (1983).

Meanwhile, Stephen does not think of Victor as a tyrant, a villain or a bad person at first. On the contrary, he considers him an ally, even though they haven’t met yet. When Stephen’s attacked by Dormammu, he evokes the memories of possible allies, sensitive to magic, who could aid him. It’s quite unusual for a hero to think of an enemy as a possible ally. And yet, here we are.

But the climax is yet to come in Triumph and Torment. Victor finds a way to save his mother without asking for help. That’s clever, he’s absolutely in character here. And maybe he expected Stephen to be the winner. Maybe he predicted that Stephen would be the one to literally go to hell with him. And that’s a good thing because they had a hidden agenda way before T&T.

They spend 45 days together. I repeat, Stephen lived in Latveria - more specifically, in Castle Doom - for 45 days. I can’t think of other people who shared so many days with Stephen aside from Clea and Wong.

One can arguee that Victor would never bond. He’s too hard and cold. But that’s WRONG. Victor had Valeria for one day and a half and immediately adopted her. He’s a softie.

And again, he could have left Stephen behind in Mephisto’s realm. But he didn’t. Mephisto freed Cynthia, they could have walked away, except Cynthia is, deep down, a good soul, and the same goes for Victor. Once more, one can arguee that Victor saved Stephen out of interest, since he could benefit from the Sorcerer Supreme’s powers. Well, then... If he ended up being the second best in the Contest of the Vishanti, wouldn’t that make him the next Sorcerer Supreme? He could have taken the title for himself! Also, another proof that Victor cares about Stephen is right here, when he carries Stephen on his arms since he doesn’t want demons to touch him (we were robbed but it did happen!)

Their feelings somehow changed after this experience. Stephen learned that Victor has a soft side, and Victor realized that Stephen is not just a tool, but someone to rely on. Of course, there’s a ton of angst and ego and opposite ideologies, but that’s the beautiful part of it. It’s about how they change each other gradually.

And it may seem that I’m exaggerating, but it only takes a few years in the official chronology to understand how T&T was fundamental to consolidate their relationship and prove my point.

During The Infinity Gauntlet saga, when Doom feels compelled to use the stones but is nearly destroyed, Stephen’s the one who saves both his body and soul. They could have let Doom die, yet we’re talking about Stephen. This is so important because Victor acknowledges his effort. More than that, he secretly values Stephen’s deed. He ~SUBMITS~ to Stephen. And Doctor Doom NEVER yields.

And I’m not even mentioning the fact that Stephen listens to Victor.

Sadly, there’s a huge gap until their next interaction, but oh boy, is it worth it. Of course, I’m skipping their minor battles because, truth be told, they’re not even as meaningful as their team-ups.

Obviously, we’re skipping to New Avengers v3 and Secret Wars. I’m not saying that Stephen is better off without the Illuminati, yet I cannot ignore the fact that he raised from perdition the moment he started his own journey alone towards power in order to stop the Beyonders. And who did he find at the end? Victor. He was the only one who figured Doom was trying to save the world as well. And the fact that they witnessed the end of the world side by side? Poetic cinema.

I could have settled by that, yet Hickman shows me that they LITERALLY built a world together.

And why is Secret Wars so important to their story? Because Stephen’s sin and Victor’s crime led them to ruin. The moment Victor loses Stephen and realizes he was betrayed by him is the moment Battleworld falls. It’s a very tragic story.

Still, we’re talking about Stephen. He has this tendency to endless goodness. They never talked about Battleworld (although I have a theory that they both remember it), and yet, their bond remains. They do not hold resentment. On the contrary, Stephen still believes in Victor’s kindness, while Victor trusts Stephen.

That said, after all this time, I believe Savage Avengers is the best example to illustrate their bond nowadays. It’s not surprising that their relationship is so well written, considering T&T is a personal favorite of Gerry Duggan. Also funny how it’s also Cantwell’s personal favorite, but they interpreted their relationship in completely different perspectives.

In Savage Avengers, they act as if they were practically married and it’s quite sweet. Also, we have it all. There’s a casual conversation about working together in order to triumph, there’s lots of drama and commotion and, of course, a breathtaking rescue. It’s perfect. I’ve fangirled talked about it a few times because, god, it’s THAT good and a great source of food.

In short, what makes me soft towards Doomstrange is how their dynamics flow both ways. On the one hand, I love how much Stephen believes in Victor’s goodness and how much he’s willing to go in order to save his damned soul. On the other hand, I love the way Victor sees Stephen differently and grows soft whenever he’s involved, allowing himself to show a hidden part of his heart.

They both struggle with loneliness and self-loathing, although they deal with it at opposite ends. While Stephen isolates himself and thinks the world is better off without him, Victor masks it with his huge ego and confidence, craving love and praise. In the end, they’re the same. They only see the world through opposite perspectives. The What If? issue where Doom becomes Sorcerer Supreme is there to prove my point. Stephen is what Victor could have become if tragedy was not a constant in his life.

Oof, I was really carried away haha. I’m so not sorry for that haha help.

Finally, your second question! The Doomstrange chronology!

I’m not sure which comic books you’ve read, so I’m making a complete list, except for alternate realities (like the What If ones, mostly because they’re very, very, VERY dark regarding Doomstrange). Here we go:

Before their first official encounter:

The Amazing Spider-Man v1 Annual #14 (1980) Doctor Strange - Master of the Mystic Arts #57 (1983) Doctor Strange - Sorcerer Supreme #2 (1989) First official team-up:

Doctor Strange & Doctor Doom: Triumph and Torment (1989)

The complete list:

Doctor Strange - Sorcerer Supreme #34 (1991) Silver Surfer v3 #59 (1991) Fantastic Four v3 #69; Fantastic Four v1 #500; Fantastic Four v1 #501 (not a team-up, they’re enemies here. But I adore this story all the same) New Avengers v3 (2012) (it’s recommend to read the whole volume to understand the story, but if you’re looking for Doomstrange only content, check issues #31 and #33) Secret Wars #1-9 (2016) (for Doomstrange, check issues #1-6) Infamous Iron Man #11-12 (2016) Doctor Doom #2 (2019) (Cantwell’s pessimist interpretation of Doomstrange) Savage Avengers #8-10 (2019) (Duggan’s very optimistic interpretation of Doomstrange. Also ignore the cover for issue #12, we all know that the person who slept with Stephen was Victor, considering the last panel pfff).

That’s it! I’m so sorry for the very long, looooong post. Also thank you for your kind words and patience! I hope it helped somehow.