#is charlie crying bc her gf is a murderer?

[a-dauntless-daffodil]

charlie brings a certain air of "i COULD care that my gay gf did so many crimes, bi I don't~" to the show that i really love

[that-thing-that-feeling]

Few things. Re: Jonathan’s breakdown, I disagree abt it being played for laughs. Emotional breakdowns are only funny when the reason the person is having the breakdown is funny. Compare for example, Charlie Day’s funny “Pepe Silvia” breakdown in It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia to Brad Pitt’s serious “What’s in the Box?” breakdown in Se7en. Both played with same level of intensity, but the IASIP breakdown is the funny one bc the subject matter is ridiculous whereas the Se7en one is more dramatic bc it’s the subject matter is sad and horrifying. Not saying that Jonathan’s breakdown will be horrifying, but there’s not a lot of comedic wiggle room when Jonathan’s breakdown is bc he thinks his gf has forgotten abt him, he realizes he’s essentially had to give up his teenage years to become a second parent to his sibling(s), one of whom just got kidnapped assumedly on his watch. Also not dying there won’t be anything comedic abt it, but Charlie’s performance will be rooted in drama. He’s been waiting to do this scene for 5 years, he’s not gonna let it be played off as a joke.

Re: Joyce vs Hopper, I think the biggest reason audiences seem to focus more on Hopper is bc of his relationship to El. Joyce got a lot more attention than him in s1, but it shifted the next season after Hop became El’s parent. El is the main character and biggest fan-favorite of the show, of course the fans will focus on those who she is closest with. And I think there is probably a slight element of unconscious (or maybe conscious as well) sexism and anti-mom bias. Hopper is a bit more free in his storylines bc he’s not rlly tied down, even after he takes in El, they were more like roommates at first anyway. It wasn’t until the end of s2 rlly that he “settled down” with El and let his story be limited that way. Meanwhile Joyce has always been deeply connected to her son’s storylines, it wasn’t until s3 that she got a storyline that wasn’t abt her kids at all. As a result, there’s less they can do with her in that way. I hope that kind of makes sense. It’s obvs unfair, Joyce is just as a compelling character as Hop and hopefully s4 will give her a chance to prove that.

Re: Finn’s comment, I think you guys are taking his words too literally. Finn means that the Hawkins storyline is horror-based (Vecna, possession, murder, etc) while the Cali storyline is comedy-based (road trip, stoner character, bickering, etc). That doesn’t mean Cali won’t have any serious moments, or Hawkins won’t have any funny moments. Just means there are diff bases, just like always. Think back to s3, it rlly had 5 diff storylines at first that could be summarized as: buddy-cop comedy, investigative drama, possession horror, teen romcom, and I guess crime-comedy. But Jopper had some serious moments, Jancy had some funny moments, etc. ST always draws from diff genres but imo they usually do a good job of blending them all together. Cali will def have some really dramatic scenes what with El being kidnapped, Jonathan’s potential breakdown, and Will’s jealousy, but it just means at the end of the day the end goal of this storyline is to make you laugh not make you cry or scream or freak out, even if those things do happen as well.

Re: Jonathan kinda having a breakdown and if it’s played for comedy; I think that’s really on the script and what they’ve given Charlie to do (or not do). We don’t tech even know if it will be played as a breakdown (even tho it feels like it should be one bc Jonathan is due for that and we know Charlie thought Jonathan was due for it and Jonathan smoking weed alone before school def feels like the pressure getting to him and him responding in a v diff way than we’ve seen on the show). I think the point was more will they acknowledge any of the stress and trauma he’s been under to explain how he’s adjusting to Cali or not. There’s so much they could write for him with all of that, but they’d have to want to.

Re: Joyce, true abt El and Hopper, but I think it’s also them caring more about masculinity and the antihero trope than wanting to do nuanced writing with Joyce as they did in s1. A way they could have given her more of her own plotline was to show more of why she wanted to move and the decision process of that back in s3. And then in s4, I hope they show her adjustment to Cali, her new job, how she’s handling the rest of the family’s adjustments before she leaves, who she tells about leaving, and the family dynamics there. They could also show the tension within her of being worried about leaving while needing to leave, for instance. If Lonnie had called or something, that would have kicked up a lot for her as well that could have given more plotline before leaving for Russia. There’s all kinds of character writing they could do with her—maybe flashbacks would have even worked for her after the move, remembering some of her times in Hawkins.

Re: Finn’s comment, yeah def think there will be a blend in all plots and there’s clearly more supernatural horror in Hawkins, it’s just I maybe wouldn’t expect all of the Cali plot to be summarized as comedic, so still curious how much of it is—def could see it in Mike’s interactions with Argyle, bickering, parts of the road trip, ig some Jargyle etc.