#it also was like rly dark and themed around like choice and relationships and stuff

[chisatowo]

Oh video game ideas inspired by dreams that I've had we're really in for it now

[lexicals]

Jfc I am BUZZING what a fucking episode. The first part of this is mostly screaming tbh

I love happy juno but also grumpy juno is my favourite welcome back

I love how firm peter is with him in stopping him from spiralling? It's good

Rita coming into her own!! Learning lessons!! Growing up!! Yes!!!

SO MUCH INFO THOUGH. Dark matters wants the crime family and they want them alive and they don't know anything about two of them but!! Which two!!

You'd presume nureyev is one but..... who knows ahh

This is gonna be mostly screaming I have no time for coherent thought rn

Juno being protective over rita godd

Juno comforting rita while she's panicking ;;

OH HEY FUCK THE NAME? I MEAN LIKE IT WAS ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY BUT RITAAAA

Me thinking no surely he wouldn't have just abandoned them and breathing a sigh of relief when he hadn't only for my boy to DO THIS?? ET TU PETER??

PETER

NUREYEV

DESERVES

TO

BE

BULLIED

I'm not serious but my guy had BETTER have a good reason for this. I would hope it's a long con of some kind or SOMETHING but PETER

Anyway if these people know his name idk if this is either 1. Blackmail or 2. Maybe he didn't get away from brahma all by himself after new kinshasa after all. Maybe he had help and it's finally come back to bite him in the ass. Who knows but I'm fucking 👀 PETER.

MISTER WHO

Also. Robot kisses 🥺

ALSO. Juno just. Picking him up and carrying him out of the room fhshdhdgs

MAMA BUDDY SO ANGRY THOUGH. I thought this would be the case but ooof

LESBIAN WEDDING TIME THOUGHHH Buddy and vespa inventing romance once AGAIN

I mean I'm sad they're retiring (although depending on what nureyev is doing here this "last job" could be UHHHHH DERAILED) but!! Yes!! Married!!

Knife girlfriend will finally be..... knife WIFE

Juno sniffling in the corner like ME TOO BITCH THE FUCK. Secretly a sap as usual though mr steel I love you

I can't remember other things I just. So much happened. I'm gonna need to listen again at least a few times here

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Oh FUCK also rita!! "When someone tells you what they want you to call them that's what you call them"!! Penumbra said trans rights once again thank you kabert and also ms jones. Bless

Not a second listen yet but more Thots:

Rly good episode...... and the robot kisses were very cute...... but I had this thought in pt. 1 and again this episode that I'm kinda bummed out that we've kinda just.... skipped over all the relationship development for juno & peter. Like on the one hand it's kind of unavoidable to miss stuff given the series format this time around but on the other it feels like 2 seasons of build up for something that.... just happened offscreen :/ Idk I was hoping for a first kiss back together or Something

On the one hand while it seems like nureyev is being a Snake™ I'm gonna hold back on actually saying he's gonna betray the crew bc he's been so consistently set up as the villain, going back to s1 when juno refused to trust him all the way through to shadows of the ship, and he's never actually proven himself untrustworthy a single time through that? Like, murderous mask has been the only time he's actually fucked anyone over for his own gain, and he went back on that one pretty quick

Plus the fact that he's only claiming to deliver the four items they need, not the curemother itself - it could be that he's planning to wait until after they've stolen the curemother when they no longer have a use for them, or at least I'd like to think so peter I'm fucking Watching You

Another thought: you know how else you might describe a debt? Something you owe to someone because, maybe, they have something of yours? A fucking ransommmmm

Also, why! Did! That! Bot! Not! Self! Destruct! Or at least not straight away. It's almost like someone wanted them to get away in the nick of time. There's a part of me that's wondering if the fact that dark matters is under mysterious new management and the fact that nureyev has made himself what seems like a very powerful enemy are linked, but we'll see. Either way I think someone definitely facilitated their escape, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was whoever is holding peter's debt, using the crew as a tool to get their hands on the four items they want and keeping nureyev as a source on their progress

Looking forward.... other people have said this as well, but I don't think nureyev is ever going to be cast as a villain here. At the very worst, he'll do something well-intentioned but kind of stupid, and it's gonna blow up in his face. Like, it's gonna hurt, but I think he'll come out of the other side better for whatever happens. Currently, my thoughts are on whether or not we'll see a repeat of new kinshasa - a high-stakes choice between someone dear to him, and the choice he feels he has to make, whether that's other people's lives again or something else. Idk, maybe not, I'm just thinking about the theming of the series with the past always coming back to haunt them, the fact that he's been said to be at a crossroads back in man in glass, and the part in tools of rust where the ruby gives jet the opportunity to make the same mistake he did fifteen years ago, and he chooses differently. Tbh as usual I'm just excited to see how things play out however that is

ACTUAL second listen this time:

Rita redacted I love you so much x3 combo. I missed this earlier but it needs to be said

Rita says she found nureyev's name by hacking into buddy's notes on him and comparing them to the outer rim criminal records which leads me to ask the question how much does buddy know? Why would rita be checking outer rim records unless something in buddy's notes pointed her in that direction? I've had my suspicions that she knows more than she's saying for a while but 👀

Nureyev sounds so nervous/scared too...... :(

I had this thought on the first listen but didn't write it down: nureyev is so goddamn smart, like so smart, I don't think he gets enough credit for that. Also him saying "one problem at a time, like [buddy] would say" was - oof. Considering how much time he spends referencing mag's advice in man in glass, even if he's bitter about it, I think that reference is very telling on how he thinks about her

Love the way he skirts around saying they have to move sneakily dhsgjf. Also "only twice" I do love him

Juno joking about his track record on not dying.... oh he's come a long way though

The way that nureyev talks to rita throughout them moving around - he's kind of a natural leader (which, ouch), but also it's clear that he has absolute confidence in her, he doesn't ever doubt for a second that she wouldn't be able to do something. It's obviously a little unempathetic when she's so shaken and doubting herself but also he clearly trusts her almost as much as if not as much as juno, and I do love to hear it

Detective falco? 👀

Juno looking on the bright side! Not blaming himself! Saying maybe it's gonna be okay and believing in her! I cry!

Except for when nureyev is in danger though ): I love that this story never shows recovery in a linear way, that juno is still inclined to beat himself up even if he is better than he used to be. He's growing but it's always gonna be a work in progress!

The fact that dark matters seems to be moving entirely towards remote operation now? Like it makes sense tactically, there's no risk of expending agents in a fight, I'm interested if the writers are gonna dig into that considering the real-world state of drone use in the military and law enforcement

Calling their heist marks "radicals", it seems like dark matters is trying to keep track of or maybe capture rogue (or radical) elements out in the universe - things like the knife and the key, which is probably why they were after m'tendere, they themselves being a radical element. I wonder if this is what brought the crew to their attention in the first place; it's definitely why they want to capture them alive at least, they want information out of them on why they're collecting the same marks

They specifically say two radicals though, and potentially a third, depending on whether the book is counted as the third that might mean they don't know about the map at all, maybe

I mentioned this another time but I'm wondering Again if dark matters was behind the mysterious disappearance of all the theia soul chips except for juno's, esp with what rita said about the interface for the bots being like theia tech - experimental tech like that would deffo be considered a radical element and they definitely could have used it as a basis for these new bots

Peter........ he's in a ROBOT stop being HORNY

"Galaxy-class criminals" huh.

Someone else pointed this out elsewhere idr who but buddy's line that sometimes helping people means trusting them to help themselves despite your concerns, when paired with what's going on with nureyev is.... interesting

WOW buddy is mad though

I'm REALLY wondering how much she knows about what's going on tbh, especially seeing as her pov is probably up next. Aaaaa I'm gonna be yelling for the next however many weeksss

Jet sounds so happy about the ruby being fixed aw

Vespa so nervous about making her announcement AW

Buddy sounds so HAPPY AW

Peter starts laughing right at the end when vespa starts threatening juno which,, oh boy ): I rly hope everything turns out okay ;;

Rita saying that sometimes trying to help someone in pain is being selfish because you just don't want to look at the hurt is a really interesting thing to come from her considering her long-standing relationship with juno, huh

“Before the year is out” is a very vague timeframe, once again thinking that nureyev’s plan may well be to only hand the items over once the heist is done

Anyway once again AAAAA

[tinkdw]

Why do you think cas should become/choose to be human? Wouldn't it make more sense if he stayed an angel but accepted the fact that he is different from the other angels but that doesn't mean he doesn't belong any less? Idk I just feel like his angelic side is such a huge part of him that he won't necessarily give it us but just accept that he's a little different and that's ok? (Sry if this comes off as rude I rly love ur blog and just wanted to see ur take on this)

It’s not rude at all :) This is a touchy subject right now though so I’ve put this under a cut because I understand this is a personal issue for some whereas I am coming at it as a meta POV. I’m not personally invested per se as I don’t identify with the character, I just enjoy the story immensely as a whole and he is key to it, I love Cas’ character but I don’t project myself into him. I understand for some this is deeply personal so please take what I say here as a narrative reasoning and not a personal attack on anyone.

Basically for me it boils down to the underlying theme in these stories of self discovery and acceptance that it’s about who you are not what you are:

Which is a hugely important part of a story based around Free Will and choices.

I personally do not see any part of canon that tells us that Cas’ grace / Angelic side has anything to do with his personality or who he is, it only is relevant to what he is, or was, anyway, at the start of the story because he pretty swiftly tells us that he has doubts, that he loves humanity and falls, within just one season ending up human for the first time. Grace is not a true part of his personality, his desires, wants, needs. For me it’s not who he is and who he wants to be and therefore who he will be in the end after his journey.

For me it is narratively written as his endgame and mirrors thousands of stories like it where a person comes from one emotional/physical place and ends in another far better place that they discover and eventually choose thanks to the journey that is our story (this of course mirrors Sam and Dean’s story too). For me it’s what the story has told us so far, particularly since season 9, it’s the writing choices they’ve made that stand out to me. It’s the recognisable tropes and visual narrative too that reinforce this well established and recognisable storyline. 

For Dean it’s about accepting the repressed part of himself, what’s below the facade (eg. bisexuality, liking Disney movies and being a bit of a nerd etc), for Sam it’s about his repressed desire to have a partner, to lead others, to work with the supernatural rather than always against it (e.g. magic/powers) and let go of his guilt about Lucifer, for Cas it’s about discovering humanity and realising that he desires it, realising that he deserves to have what he desires and doesn’t have to be just a tool, a cog in the machine, that he matters too.

It makes sense to me that Cas would have something big like this just as Dean and Sam do as his endgame and I believe the narrative sends us down this path and reinforces it consistently over the seasons.

Breaking it down and looking at it from what we are told, the choices that the writers have made regarding his character and how he fits the overall story, making a list with columns of ‘for’ and ‘against’ is the easiest way to explain it:

- In the camp of “wants to be an Angel because we’ve had exposition that he enjoys it and it’s who he is” I have zero ticks.

- In the camp of “says he wants to be an Angel because of duty to being useful for the mission or because he’s depressed and lost and feeling so much pain and it’s what he has known for millennia, being an Angel dulls his emotions so it’s the easiest option, expositionally later telling Sam that doing this was to dull his pain” I have ticks. 

- In the camp of “wants to be Human because yes he felt pain and suffering for sure, but also expositionally told Hannah later - his own personal expositional character in s10 for his personal desires and character - that it was worth it because he also felt joy, love etc, after also telling Sam that he now misses being human through the PB&J, he misses taste but not indigestion etc. all these moments telling us that basically he misses the good stuff, not the bad stuff of course which he is well aware of, but the good outweighs the bad and he knows this because he’s experienced the bad too, it’s an educated decision” I have multiple ticks (expanded below).

- In the culminating camp of “now knows he wants to be Human but represses this due to duty and not feeling he really deserves to have what he wants while there is a job to do because that is how his personality has been established for a decade - the mission and being useful always comes first before his own desires and he has to learn that his desires are important and valid and that he matters for who he is not just what he is as a useful tool” I have ALL the ticks. (and how this mirrors Dean too for whom he has always also been a mirror).

Regarding your question I think the question I ask in return is:

Why is his angelic side such a huge part of him? For me it really isn’t and that is what I believe has been narratively portrayed in the show so far through the above expositions, all leading to the same end.His grace is not what makes him Cas.

For me that’s saying that what he is defines him, when that is not the case imo, whats important is who he is and the story we have been shown over the last decade for Cas is in my opinion about him learning this, experiencing new things that establish for the audience and for himself who he is and what he desires after millennia of not thinking about this and being the duty bound dullard he is teased as being by Lucifer, his dark mirror, it’s a journey to self discovery and self acceptance (as is Sam and Dean’s).

It’s our CHOICES that define who we are. 

I wrote this, saved it in my drafts and then saw @k-vichan‘s post here that covers this what/who we are topic in a similar way so I’ll also link to that.

Eg.

This is a pretty standard concept in stories for millennia (mythologies and religious texts rest on this too, Jesus wasn’t truly a carpenter, Moana wasn’t truly an island-bound princess, Hermione wasn’t truly a muggle and Harry wasn’t truly a Dursley even though they were blood) and it’s particularly noticeable over the last 20 or so years in film, it’s to do with social structures, slavery, history etc. Hence we have so many stories about self - discovery and self - a acceptance and SPN absolutely is one of these, it’s one of the core messages of the show. For me Sam, Dean and Cas all have this journey and for sure it’s not all about Cas throwing off the shackles of his family in a negative way, in the same way that Sam doesn’t have to reject running away fully and Dean doesn’t have to reject John outright, these stories are all about reconciliation of different parts of ones-self but the discovered part is always the strongest and the one that really ends up defining who they truly are while the first part is accepted as the beginning, the basis from which they started, remembered usually with fondness, not always negatively and for sure incorporated into them, not fully thrown off, but I can see this in the sense that he will be human but with a good relationship with Heaven, not actually remaining an Angel, e.g. as JK Rowling said Harry / Dursleys did end up on civil terms even though Harry was emancipated from them.

This is a pretty standard sci-fi concept and even a standard narrative for loads of stories and irl - just because you are born a certain way doesn’t make you who you are. It’s a standard story structure and it is really important, especially when there is a DECADE of build up that the person is NOT that?

And the whole last season was about WHO YOU ARE?

Imagine a story where:

- Chris is from one tribe, he’s brought up by other tribe members in a ‘family environment’. He fits ok, gets on with the jobs and rises to become quite important in the tribe community through his capabilities. The tribe elders repeatedly have to beat him down though because he is very clever, he is capable and he makes choices where they say he should just do as he is told as this is the way of that tribe, everyone has a place, some are more equal than others and that’s that.

- one day there is a crying baby, they are told not to touch babies as it is not their place but he picks it up to comfort it anyway, the baby stops crying and he is touched by this interaction. the elders come and snatch the baby away and whip him for it, berating him back into his place and forcing him back to work.

- after a while he meets a young man, part of the community of a different tribe, one where free will is part of the kit, called David. David is the utter embodiment of this tribe, he has free will, he’s strong and clever, empathetic and argumentative. David likes Chris despite himself and Chris likes David despite himself, David can see that Chris is different, clever, capable of making his own choices. He convinces Chris to rebel against the tribe elders and their plan which was to kill half of the other tribe in order to claim the land, claiming that in the end they could all live in peace, but Chris and David think it is abhorrent that they would kill half the people to do so.

- after this the first tribe is disbanded, Chris experiences life outside of his tribe. He becomes pretty good at life outside of it and smiles a lot more, he even starts flirting with David, who he always tried to just protect and follow the leadership of before but now he feels they are on equal footing he allows himself to see how this could play out.

- however a terrible thing happens, Chris’ original tribe elders regroup and try to get their tribe back under control, they come by and notice this bond, they are savage, torture Chris and threaten to cut off his genitals, he realises that he has one way to save David and David’s family - he could lay down his life and become a part of the tribe again, to protect David and his family. He of course decides to let himself become part of the tribe and goes back to work, being told what to do, following duty etc.

- But now its worse because he had a taste of freedom. David can see, but he’s not sure what to do, what does Chris really want? Does he want to be part of his original tribe? They are technically his family after all? But he seemed to not really be a member of this tribe all along, he rebelled and now believes in free will, plus David had hoped that he could be with Chris, even if it wasn’t ever said, it was implied they could be and given that Chris never seemed to really want to be a part of the other tribe it seemed like the best option for him anyway, even if they weren’t together that he would be a part of David’s own tribe at least and have free will and be happier. But David isn’t sure and doesn’t want the guilt of perhaps Chris wanting to be in his tribe only for him if his true place was with his original tribe. Chris never told him really what he wanted, even though David asked, he deflected the question because he wanted to protect him and felt duty bound to always do the right thing. So it’s all a giant mess and only Chris can truly say what he wants and make his choice.

Right?!!

So really - IS Angelichood / grace a part of what makes Cas CAS? Is it a part of his personality, his choices, WHO HE IS or is it just his biology / upbringing / his past before he could truly discover who he is during the telling of our story?

He uses his powers to get jobs done SURE. This for me shows that his powers are useful, it doesn’t mean he loves them. I don’t feel he has any kind of pride in them. He tells us his true form is the size of the chrysler building and that he doesn’t sweat, he shows Dean and Crowley his wings to show what he is and what power he has - for me that is not showing WHO he is, his personality, just what he is capable of thanks to his biological/Angelic form, plus these are all framed under DUTY, mostly of threatening (which is absolutely isn’t, he’s a lover not a fighter yet he fights only because he has to), he doesn’t do this kind of display for fun to show Sam and Dean in the bunker or whatever in their down time, this is all for the JOB. He says in s9 he misses his wings because they’re useful to him and because life on the road…smells. This is him saying he’d rather be able to be with the boys and do this research by flitting around, be with Dean who he is currently smiling down the phone to… that’s whats being exposed imo, not actually missing his wings because they’re a part of him, just their usefulness.

Then the most obvious of all the expositions imo:

CASTIEL: When I was human, you know, I had to eat constantly. It was kind of annoying.

SAM: Yeah, a lot of human things are pretty annoying.

CASTIEL: But…I enjoyed the taste of food – particularly peanut butter with grape jelly, not jam. Jam I found unsettling (…) Sigh…I miss you PB&J.

- This for me is the one line exposition of his WHOLE human experience. It was annoying (not all good) BUT HE STILL ENJOYED IT OVERALL. HE MISSES IT.

When do we see his personality? His likes? His dislikes? When does he smile? It’s not when he’s talking about being an Angel. It’s all to do with human things.

When he says he just wants to be an Angel again in 9x23 its because he is desperate, he is suffering, he thinks Dean is dead. Up until this point its been consistently shown that he didn’t WANT to be an Angel (he didn’t reply to Dean, then in s10 its even more consistent, with Daniel as exposition too and all the grace/Crowley/Metatron stuff). He just wants to be an Angel to dull the pain and because it’s easy, it’s what he knows, but it’s not what he TRULY wants. He then exposes through his convention with Hannah that sure there are bad points to humanity but the good points FAR OUTWEIGH THEM. He is wistful. He misses it.

He took his grace again through DUTY, because he felt he needed it to get the job done to save Dean (“the mission is everything”) and this is a personality trait of Cas’, the one that stops him from looking for and getting what he desires. 

Season 10 is like a queer, depressed person who goes back to their abusive family after their partner seems to have died and everyone is screaming noooooooo don’t do it! then we see the family taking them out hunting queer people, kidnapping them to take them to a “queer conversion camp” while they are hating it and trying to defend them but begrudgingly going along with it cos what choice do they have and they’re so down beaten by life…(that’s the Daniel episode) then the partner turns up on their doorstep like hey surprise I’m not dead! 

And how does this story end happily? With him leaving with the partner, setting up a lovely home together, becoming the teacher or whatever that they always wanted to be but couldn’t while they were with their family, adopting a kid and maybe even helping other people come to terms with themselves, still keeping contact with the GOOD members of their old family who were supportive even though they don’t necessarily see them very often, there is a nice link there still with the GOOD people…

So yeah, for me it’s not about shucking off Heaven/his grace in a negative way and saying fuck you! It’s just about accepting that he doesn’t want this for himself, that he’s discovered WHO he truly is after spending millennia only thinking about WHAT he is and what duty he can do. 

He is no longer a repressed duty bound dullard, he has discovered what he wants.

Everyone and their mother since s9 keeps asking Cas what and who he is, some even telling him that he’s NOT an Angel. Mary semi-assuming he’s a hunter. WHY is this a consistent narrative?

It’s a totally normal way of writing a story and exposing what the character’s endgame is.

Like when someone says to a character “you don’t think you deserved to be saved”, or “well, you’re a bit butch, maybe they think you’re overcompensating” or “he was your boyfriend first” or “the Angel in the dirty trenchcoat who’s in love with you” or “he’s your human weakness” or “you draped yourself in the flag of heaven but it was all about saving Dean Winchester”, and you just… look away uncomfortably (and usually swallow, Dean in particular usually does both).

source: @charlie-minion

That’s it. That’s the exposition. This is telling the audience YES what they are saying is true but the character doesn’t want to talk about it, cant acknowledge it for *reasons*. It happens in so many movies because we can’t see inside the character’s mind, it’s a visual narrative and it’s such a standard way of doing it… it’s just another trope to add to the long list in SPN.

Personally throughout the show it’s been a consistent narrative but massively more obvious since season 9, which fits with so many other stories as I say, that his is a voyage to discovering who he truly is, he then discovers it and has to take it away from himself and it makes him a depressed mess. 

It also totally fits with Destiel as a standard romantic narrative, that Dean helps him to discover who he really is and helps him get to his personal, individual endgame without being HIMSELF that endgame… it just all fits too well together to not be on purpose you know?

This is all my OPINION based on canon, it’s my interpretation, which is what you asked for and what this platform is for. IF they turn around and he doesn’t end up human I will be incredibly surprised but I won’t throw my toys out of the pram or be upset, they just need to address why it’s been written this way and either go for it or not and change the way it’s addressed in the end to explain why. Just like Destiel - why write the story one way to then not take it there is where I usually come from with these interpretations. It wouldn’t make sense as to why they would change their mind (and I personally don’t think they will at this point where Dabb era is just reinforcing all these points), because in my opinion this is what they have been writing so far so it makes no sense not to, but hey if I’m wrong in my interpretation I’m wrong!

If I’m wrong about them so far writing Destiel and human!cas into the script I’ll just be surprised but they are also fully capable of flipping it or not following through for other reasons, because the story isn’t over yet and it’s not a finite story like a movie or a book, it’s ongoing because of the nature of a tv show…so many things could happen that flip it so who knows but it would need to be written as making sense and until I see that starting to happen I’ll stick to this interpretation, especially given as I say, in my opinion Dabb era is reinforcing it, not flipping it.