#it’s one thing for a sect leader in a parental role to do it

[poorlittleyaoyao]

do you ever think about how QHJ was twenty when got married and went into seclusion and so LQR was at BEST 19 when he got the sect dropped on him and quite possibly younger. He's in his thirties during the cloud recesses arc

WELL I SURE AM THINKING ABOUT IT NOW.

Nineteen? NINETEEN? LQR is hardly the only character to be parentified at a young age (hi, JYL!) or forced into a sect leader role at a young age (hi, NMJ!), but the only one out here doing BOTH those things is JC. LQR and JC commiseration session and/or LQR going out of his way to support JC because he recognizes his younger self in him WHEN.

Also. All the comments about how LQR is soooo old and suchhhh a fuddy-duddy are like 1000x funnier now--not because being 30something is old, but because 1.) it sure would seem that way to a jerkass teen like WWX, 2.) the teaching + parenting + acting sect leader combo would definitely have aged him, and 3.) some people are simply born spiritually middle-aged and LQR is one of them.

(But seriously, the older generation is so so SO interesting to me conceptually, and I would 100% read a novel about what they're all up to, even if it's going to make me sad.)

[madtomedgar]

something i think gets dropped a lot in fandom discussions is the category of stories that both operate within a particular moral framework and are uncomfortable with it. there’s probably a word for this and i’m not articulating this super well but.

i think modern western storytelling, particularly the kind of stories that attract fandom type interactions, either have a morality system that the narrative wholeheartedly agrees with and has set up as “good,” which is being challenged by an outside “evil” (think lotr) or the system is framed as immoral, and our heroes see through that and overthrow the system to establish a reign of “good,” (start wars, original flavor).

And there are other kinds of storytelling around systems of morality. in western lit/media, they usually belong to more serious, high-brow works that don’t work well with fandom. but the kind of framework i’m talking about is one that also shows up in antigone. in that, there is a set way that Creon has to act, as a good ruler. If he doesn’t act this way, he isn’t a good ruler. And there’s a set way that Antigone has to act to be a good sister. And those two goals are at deep odds, so you wind up with Creon doing the right thing but also doing something so deeply wrong, and Antigone doing the wrong thing to do what’s right. And there’s a read here that’s like. Creon was sticking too closely to the letter of the law and therefore couldn’t see what was really right, like Antigone did, and so is a tragic villain. But you can also read them as both being right, and being unable to resolve that.

And in discussions of mdzs/cql, I feel like I see a lot of either people deciding that society and its moral requirements are bad, and the protagonist who rebels against them is good, OR people upholding the societal moral requirements against the protagonist in a way even the story doesn’t. Because what Wei Wuxian does in leaving the Jiang sect and breaking his promise is wrong for the society of the story. But it’s also true that he’s doing the right thing by protecting the Wens, and the problems with his brother are that they can’t resolve the issue of them both being right in incompatible ways.

And like. Taking revenge for your family by killing the entire family of the people who wronged you is socially acceptable, but I don’t think you can say that the story is happy about it. Being a good and obedient child is a social moral requirement, and the story isn’t framing telling your parents who suck to go fuck themselves, or having them fucked to death, as good. Instead it’s wrestling with the question of what happens when your parents abuse that loyalty and affection, or don’t accept it? What the fuck are you supposed to do when you have to both can’t inter a traitor in the city but you have to bury your family honorably? And there isn’t a neat answer!

Like... Wei Wuxian does owe the Jiangs, and also the handling of that debt is disastrous and unfair to everyone. Jin Guangyao is being a very good son, and therefore a very bad man, until he becomes a terrible son and then a good man (as in once he’s out from under his father, he chooses to do things that enhance the common good for no benefit to himself, and puts a stop to the demonic cultivation experiments that used live people, and generally seems to perform the role of a wise and good leader. I’m not saying what he did to his father or the sex workers was good because it wasn’t, though it is fun narratively). Wen Ning is a traitor to the man who took him in and raised him and to his sect, and he’s also a member of that sect with a potential moral obligation to take revenge, and he did the right thing by helping the Jiangs out. But it was also very much the wrong thing.

And so much of this push and pull and discomfort with, but not rejection of, this moral system is bound up in conflicting moral obligations, to parents, to individuals, to sects, to leaders, and what happens when they conflict. But it’s important, I think, that it’s not actually a rejection of these obligations and their weight. Yeah.

[toomanythoughts2]

Victim or Cohort? Anja Wartooth and Toki Wartooth's Relationship Theories

Hello again! My full thoughts and analysis will be under the cut away just like last time!

I have spent a considerable amount of time thinking about these two characters and their relationship, and I thought it was about time that I put all of it down in one place. Anja Wartooth is an incredibly interesting character to me and it's a shame we don't see too much of her.

So, for the most part, this post will be about what the title says:

Was Anja Wartooth a victim just like Toki or was she a cohort to her husband's abuse toward Toki AND whichever she is, how has that affected her relationship with her son?

Evidence for Victimhood

Cults and Women

"From an abandoned village near Lilliehammer, Norway, Anja and the Reverend Aslaug Wartooth." - Senator Stampingston "Dethfam"

Anja Wartooth is a very mysterious character in Metalocalypse when we are first introduced to her in "Dethfam". She is a very single sided character, "the wife" "the mother" and once we learn a little more "the abuser". Anja's role as we see her as the fans is just that and nothing else. However, when we start digging through the actual background we are being given by Brendon Smalls, a much more disturbing image is being created. In order for us the understand what is being presented, we need to understand what is happening and what does that mean for her.

There are very few things we know about her but the most important to remember right now is that Anja is married to a cult leader.

"Toki's father [Aslaug] was the local leader of a mysterious and cultish sect of Christianity, which likely involved vows of silence and extreme disciplinarianism." - Metalocalypse Wiki

Anja is married to a cult leader, we as the fans are fully aware of that. But what does that really mean?

It means that Anja has no control over herself or her child.

Dr. Alexandra Stein wrote a short essay on the effects of women in cults called, "Cults are terrifying. But they're even worse for women." She has multiple years of research in the field dealing with cults and what they do to women, specifically their reproductive freedom. In her essay, she highlights how motherhood is taken over by a cult leader in order to force the woman to focus their attention on them, and not the child. This could mean forcing abortions on women or forbidding birth control so that child are convinced whenever. She also includes that when parental attention is given to the child, the cult community rules dictate how that attention happens. Women in cults are also exposed to sexual abuse and their children are exposed to child abuse, often times overlapping each other depending on what type of cult they are in. Child sexual abuse is not uncommon in cults, such as in the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints, where Warren Jeffs, their leader, is in prison for sexual abuse toward girls.

"In short, women’s right to control their bodies, their child-bearing, their sexuality and their mothering are all taken away in cults as the leader grabs control of these most intimate parts of their lives. Women don’t choose this: They are groomed, brought in slowly and gradually separated from their previous lives and close relationships. Once isolated within the cult, and suffocated within its closed world, it becomes almost impossible for followers to maintain their independence. At a certain point, it becomes easier to simply give in, stop thinking and accept the new norms." - Dr. Alexandra Stein, "Cults are terrifying. But they're even worse for women."

When reviewing the article, this specific scene from "Dethdad" came to mind. It's during Toki's flashbacks of all of the abuse he had gone through, and this is one of those things he remembers. Not only is this traumatizing to Toki, but, with the knowledge we know now, it's probably traumatizing to Anja. The last bit that Dr. Stein says, "It becomes easier to simply give in." really resonates with me with how Anja is simply "giving in" to her husband's desires. Take a close look at her. Does she look like she's enjoying it? NO!

Now that we know that cult leaders have a reputation of separating mother and child to keep the woman's focus on the leader, lets look at the Wartooths. Aslaug separating the interactions between Toki and Anja to keep Anja in line would be on par for a cult leader. They live in an abandoned village outside of Lilliehammer, so they are cut off from the rest of the world, keeping her and Toki severely isolated. Anja really only has her husband, the cult leader, and the few members of their cult that we see in "Dethdad". (The wiki hints that these people are also Toki's family, which further pushes Anja into isolation if those people in the cult are Aslaug's family, NOT Anja's!) Another small hint at reproductive abuse is the age of Anja and Aslaug. We don't know canonically their ages, but they are drawn in a fashion where they are much older parents, probably way older than they should be to be bringing in a child. Which raises the question, does Anja have access to birth control? My guess, probably not.

Another moment of mothering abuse would be the one time we see Anja hit Toki in "Dethkids." It was under the supervision of Aslaug. This cosines with the idea that mothering in a cult is only allowed to the extent of what the leader wants. Aslaug is a disciplinarian, which would make sense why he would oversee how the mother interacts with the child, and does as he wants, not what the mother wants.

This is a side note, in "Dethkids", this scene lasts for 18 seconds. 17 of those seconds were just Anja staring at Toki before slapping him.

What all of this information means to me is that Aslaug purposefully withheld Anja from forming a mother/son relationship with Toki, furthering his abuse on Anja and Toki. Based on Dr. Stein's essay, Aslaug most likely abused Anja as well, as it fits in their cult leader/wife dynamic. I feel like this is good evidence toward Anja being a victim of a cult and having to conform to his ideals in order to survive.

Aslaug's Abuse Toward Toki

Aslaug is a cult leader, a malicious man who has beaten and abused Toki. From the wiki, Aslaug is characterized to, "[petrify] [Toki] by any proximity to Aslaug, physical or mental." whereas Anja (granted her wiki is severely lacking) has no mention of bringing such a state to Toki.

Here is a list of all the ways Toki has been abused on screen:

Forced into the Punishment Hole (Underground pit) in inadequate clothing and in subfreezing weather.

Switched across back, legs, and arms till bleeding, leaving with open wounds and no medical care.

Chained to wall.

Pushing the "Wheel of Pain" mill.

Carrying boxes of rocks uphill in inadequate clothing.

Carrying logs and stacking them in inadequate clothing.

Face slapping.

Sweeping snow in inadequate clothing.

Walking in parents having sex (I personally see this as sexual abuse and control.)

A type of abuse we don't see on screen but is in the concept art of "Dethzazz", Aslaug hitting Toki's bare back with a horse whip when he breaks the wooden spoke.

In the special features episode, "Family," Toki states that he was spanked as a child. "I often thinks of the days in Norway when family. Pants down. Spank." - Toki

(I understand that spanking is a controversial topic when discussing child abuse, but I'm going to go on a limb here and say that Toki was not spanked in a "normal" fashion, and was probably beaten horribly.)

Now, I would like to remind everyone that the only time we see Anja being an active abuser is in "Dethkids" when she slaps Toki across the face. That is the ONLY time Anja does something like that. This, however, does not disqualify the indirect abuse she put Toki through by being a bystander and letting the abuse continue at the hands of Aslaug. Nor does this disqualify her from possibly having other direct roles in Toki's abuse, but, with the evidence that is shown, Aslaug is seen much more than Anja in Toki's abuse. However, Anja can be both guilty of indirect abuse and be a victim at the same time.

For example, in "Doomstar Requiem", when Toki sings "I Believe", there is a flashback when he says, "My familys, they didn't cares about mes" This is what is shown. Toki is obviously holding an acoustic guitar by the shape of the body that is shown and the wooden neck. He is showing it to his family and Aslaug is the one telling Toki that he has to leave, not Anja, though, she looks more disgusted with it than Aslaug. Here is more proof that Aslaug is the one making these decisions about and for Toki, not Anja, but Anja could have stepped in and stopped it.

With that being said, I would not be a far reach to state that Aslaug was the main abuser.

Lingering Effects

From what we know about Adult Toki and his abuse, is that Toki is severely traumatized. From their first meeting, Aslaug (and Anja by omission, but only because the wiki states that Aslaug causes Toki stress, not Anja) sent Toki into a catatonic state for three days in "Dethfam". He did not speak in those three days, a distinctive characteristic of Aslaug's cult. It is also a predecessor to "Dethzazz" where we learn that his catatonic state takes the form of the Punishment Hole, something we have only seen Aslaug send Toki to, not Anja.

Aslaug has also created a phobia in Toki of Bicentennial Quarters because they look like the entrance to the Punishment Hole. Toki is so scared of them that he has to be drugged in order to calm down from this phobia. This relays to the audience that Toki is so scared and traumatized by his time in the Punishment Hole that his body physically can not function around a quarter because it looks vaguely like it.

It's worth noting that in "Dethzazz" when Toki is stuck in his Punishment Hole, a spider hybrid with his father's head comes to attack Toki in his mind. He only comes around when Little Toki is by himself in his hole with his clown doll nowhere to be found, in his most vulnerable state. In his dissociative mind, the creatures that came to attack Toki were snakes and a Spider/Dad hybrid! Not Anja, Aslaug! This is important because it points out that Aslaug is Toki's main stressor.

One of Toki's most important arcs (in my opinion) is Toki age regressing slowly throughout the show until we get to "Army of the Doomstar", where it is confirmed by Pickles in the church. The reason Toki started regressing in the first place can be originated at "Dethfam" where Toki is forced to see his parents again. We see Toki voluntarily use age regression to cope and calm himself down, like the usage of his Deaddy Bear, coloring, playing with his toys (model planes), and his love for plushies. Those are only the few things I can remember off the top of my head. From there, throughout the seasons, Toki begins to regress more and more, until we get to "Doomstar Requiem", where once he is rescued, it really kicks it into overdrive. Simply, Toki's abuse (and captivity, which resembles a LOT of his own childhood abuse) has traumatized him so badly, that he has to age regress to cope, which went from voluntarily to involuntarily.

Everyone who loves Toki, knows that scene in "Snakes n' Barrels II" where Toki beats the shit out of that guy at the sober concert. However, it is important to remember that the episode right before that is "Dethdad". The Tribunal said in "Dethdad", "Toki has suppressed his feelings for his father. His death may ignite long-dormant emotions. He will spin out of control into a vortex of madness. He will bring death to us all."

I have a theory that, with the stress of his father dying, blaming himself for his death, and being in a crowded concert while being sober, was the reason he really went apeshit on that guy. The tribunal was giving us foreshadowing into the next episode (or two, if you watched it on TV and had to see it split up). With that being said, what the Tribunal predicted would happen, did happen, at least to one person. His repressed rage after his father's death while being overstimulated and sober caused a chain reaction in Toki.

I do not believe Toki to be a overtly violent man, despite his affliction toward sadism and power trips at times. "Dethkids" showed the audience that Toki's rage comes from his childhood abuse during "Toki's Song". The montage of his flashbacks show Aslaug and Anja abusing him, which hints that Toki does have some lingering anger toward his mother. This further proves the Tribunal's warning of Toki spinning out of control after his death.

Which brings us to our next effect, drinking. My theory is that, because Toki was sober when he beat up that guy (plus fully aware of his feelings about his father), he started drinking to combat any possibility of doing it again. I do believe that Toki does not feel good about what he did to that man once he regained his mind. So, in order to stop from thinking about his father and about beating that man close to death, he will do what he wasn't doing at the concert, which was drinking. Obviously, this leads the band to start to seriously worry about Toki and even have Nathan break the "No Caring" policy. Thankfully, Toki was able to kick that after the Season 2 Finale.

While this next effect may be a little meta, it's still an important aspect that I would like to talk about. Toki's panic attacks we see in the show, specifically the one in "Bookklok", are a result of his abuse. Abused children have a significantly larger chance of developing anxiety and panic-like symptoms and disorders. Toki was abused severely, but especially when he needed to be "punished" for breaking the rules. From my point of view, this means that Toki's panic attacks occur when he messes up something and thinks he is going to be punished again, like in "Bookklok", when he steps on his guitar AUX and messes up his solo. Something else to note, in the Metaloclaypse Wiki, it states that, "What Toki suffered from was most likely hyperpneic syndrome, usually called hyperventilation. If one breaths too much too quickly, the amount of carbon dioxide in the blood decreases, and an attack occurs." Toki's panic attack being hyperventilation related could also relate to Norway's high altitude and a his failure of acclimatization (which takes 3 to 5 days), which would have made his attack that much more severe, leading him to collapse like he did.

(This one might be a a stretch, but in "Dethrecord" when Toki accidently delete's Skwisgaar's guitar part, he does panic and plead with Skwisgaar to not kick him out of the band, even offering to suck his dick. I know it's meant to be a funny moment, but that was real fear out of Toki. This could align with a much younger Toki panicking and pleading with his father to not kick him out of the home and into the Punishment Hole, even descending into some desperate attempts to prevent it. I don't necessarily believe that Toki was ever sexually abused by his parents, but the likelihood of it happening is still very high, especially since Toki lives with the leader of the cult.)

Pickles Parallel

Toki is not the only one with a problem with his father. Everyone except Nathan (though he might of fixed his father issues off camera) has father issues, but the one member that reflects him the most is Pickles. Pickles has a horrible relationship with his father. I'm going to be honest, I don't think they have a single scene together where they talk to each other other than the flashback. "Fatherklok" is the one I want to focus on because that is where we see Pickles and Toki coming together to talk about their fathers, and what they have to say about them.

In the beginning, Toki says to Charles, "So, my dads just died. and I'm totally cool with it." (He's lying.)

Pickles says, "Look, I got no relationship with my dad other than I hate him, you know? [Flashback] You know, I realized the other day that I don't even know his first name. And I'm proud. I'm proud to know that I don't know that." (He is also lying.)

Through out the beginning, we see Pickles (And Toki in the very beginning when he's talking to Nathan in the kitchen but mostly Pickles) trying to get Murderface to "father" him a little but is chased off my Murderface while he favors Skwisgaar. This enrages him and he is seen destroying his endangered animals room.

Pickles says, "Why does Murderface favor Skwisgaar over me? What's wrong with me?" Which Toki asks if Murderface is really doing it and asks how it's going while looking sad. Pickles says it's going great and asks, "What about us?" Toki says he's being totally excluded and Pickle says, "Just like my old man did to me," with Toki agreeing. They both agree this is going to screw them up with Pickle's destroying a Murderface cup.

So at this point, we are aware that Pickles and Toki have lingering emotions about their father, about being excluded, but also rage. This obviously concludes with Pickles beating up Murderface, with Toki joining in. So, this episode shows how Toki and Pickles relate to their rage about their fathers.

But what about their mothers?

"Motherklok" is a completely different vibe, with Pickles trying his best to form a relationship with his cold and distant mother, Molly. The episode is about Pickles changing himself in order to please his mother so they can have a relationship, something Pickles is still clinging on to. It's most likely not the first time their this has happened. As it goes, Pickles finally ends up breaking away from that toxic relationship when nothing pleases her by telling her to "Go Fuck Yourself." To me, this says that both Molly and Calvert were actively neglectful and abusive parents to Pickles on their own, and not together. Whereas with Toki, it seems that the abuse came mostly from one source, his father, with his mother following his commands. While we do not see the Toki and Pickle's parallel in the episode itself, there is evidence throughout other episodes that, unlike Pickles, Toki was able to form a relationship with his mother.

Toki and Anja's Relationship

Pre-Dethdad Death

Speaking Terms

I think the biggest cue that Toki has a relationship with his mother and it's on good terms is that they talk to each other. In the beginning of "Dethdad", we see Toki getting a call from his mother. We know it's from his mother because he says, "Mor?" which is Norwegian for "Mother." The full translation is from the Metalocalypse Wiki:

«Hellos? – Mor? Ja... kreft? Han er nesten død? Han hoster opp blod? Okay, ha det bra!» "

"Hellos? – Mother? Yes... cancer? He's almost dead? He coughs up blood? Okay, goodbye/see you!"

From this scene, we can tell that,

Anja has Toki's number

Toki wouldn't just give his number out to his parents after having no contact with them in over 10 years without some kind of compromise. I believe that Toki giving his number to his mother was that compromise.

Toki picks up the phone for his mother

In "Dethmas", it is concluded that the band can see the names of whoever is calling before answering. The scene of Nathan, Pickles, and Skwisgaar getting calls from their mothers, ignoring them, then getting calls from each others mothers, while continuingly ignoring them is telling to how Toki picks up his phone. There was no hesitation in Toki picking up his phone. I don't believe that Anja would have her own phone until after Aslaug's death, so Toki asking "Mor?" to clarify it's her is more aligned with Anja using someone else's phone. But even having getting that clarification, he does not end the phone call and continues it. She has probably called him before with this same method.

Anja is speaking

Anja is from a cult where they value mutism. Her choosing to call her son herself instead of getting someone else to do it is a spiritual sacrifice. She is putting her values aside to talk to him personally and give this terrible news about his father. She is controlling something about her and Toki's relationship, the act of communication. How many times do you think she has spoken to Toki while he grew up that wasn't under the eyes of Aslaug?

This is important in terms of their relationship because in "Dethfam", Toki has not spoken in 3 days and was catatonic. Going from that to having a full conversation with his mother on the phone is a huge step. Not only that, but the conversation starts and ends appropriately. There is a hello, there is a good bye. There is a small but meaningful conversation happening between them.

In the same episode, we do see Aslaug speak to Toki, but we don't know exactly what he said. We do know it was a demand. What was it? CARRY ME UP THIS MOUNTAIN AND PUT ME IN MY CHILDHOOD COTTAGE! And what did Toki do his entire life? CARRY HEAVY OBJECTS UP MOUNTIANS! His last and quite possibly only words to Toki was a demand to carry another heavy object up a mountain. The difference between these two conversation sets each parent apart as in how they view Toki.

Post-Dethdad Death

Secret Santa Presents

The last time we see Anja is during "Dethmas". I'll go into detail about Anja herself but for now, lets focus on what interactions we do see. Toki and Anja don't physically interact, unless you consider Toki and Anja standing next to each other before boarding the Dethbus a physical interaction. What we do see however are the presents Toki buys for his secret Santa. One of those presents are for his mother!

Now mind you, there has been 6 episodes in between "Dethdad" and "Dethmas", including "Renovationklok" which states a nine month time jump. In the episode, Nathan speaks to the boys about not giving their mothers alcohol because of "last time". This alludes to their being at least one Christmas before this Christmas episode. So Toki and Anja have had one Christmas together already. (Toki does state after they view the Christmas DVD that "their [mothers] are going to ruin Christmas" but this more likely to alludes to the drinking and horniness than them actually being there, as they all share the same Christmas spirit as him.)

This means that Toki's relationship with his mother has developed so much that he is comfortable enough getting her a present. But also the quality of the gift will probably high. Toki states to the rest of the band when they won't agree to secret Santa that, "I aints listens to you no more! I'ms going shoppings! Yes! Shoppin's! To buy each and every ones of yous a gifts! and I wants to sees de looks on all your fat fucking faces whens I gives you greats presents! Ha Ha! Fucks you!"

Toki was out buying presents for his loved ones with the clear intention of them being good presents. He has gifts for all of the members of Dethklok, Charles, Dr. Rockso (that god damn back stabbing son of a bitch), and his mom! He does not get a gift for any of the other mothers or anyone else, just these people. This clearly shows that Toki values his mother enough to get her a good Christmas gift.

Dethbus Scene

This is a small scene, but I wanted to highlight how the other mothers speak to their sons (and the other members plus Knubbler) VS. Toki and Anja. The other mothers are comfortable enough to yell and hit their sons and the other members while trying to find a parking spot. Now, neither Toki or Anja speak during this scene, but it's also important to note that the other mothers have never spoken poorly to Toki or hit him before. Whether this is because the dynamic between Toki and his family is a lot more psychological (to showcase his own kind of parental abuse) or Anja (and Aslaug) have a clear boundary that only they can speak or hit Toki, is up for interpretation. But the point is that Anja has never said a bad word to Toki or hit him on screen other than that one flashback whereas the other mothers have! It sets them apart from the rest of the group.

(Granted! Toki may be so screwed up that being around his parents might make him act more appropriately, but the later half of the episode kind of disproves that with the drinking scene and Toki trying to fight Dr. Rockso in clear sight of his mother.)

Their relationship as mother and son has improved since the death of his father. It's not perfect, and it probably never will be. Anja herself has to go through a lot of personal growth before I think Toki and her will ever have a normal relationship. That's why her relationship with the other mothers is so important for her and Toki's relationship.

Anja Post Aslaug's Death

Dethmom's Girl Group

Toki and Anja's relationship will not change until Anja herself changes. Anja is a victim of a cult, where her choices were taken from her. Now with her husband dead, she is able to finally branch out and do things for herself. It will take years for her to fully express who Anja is, but her relationship with the other Dethmoms are so important to this development. "Dethmas" shows us that Anja has taken refuge with the other mothers, something we do not see Pre-Dethdad.

The Dethmoms, while not the best bunch, are probably the closet Anja has to friends. We do not see her with friends beforehand and the people at Aslaug's deathbed are (I am assuming) are Aslaug's family and their congregation. Anja is around four very different types of women, all of which have very different views, mannerisms, and styles. This is something she would have never been allowed near in a cult, especially one that values her modesty, mutism and devotion to Christ. (It's believed that her cult is Christian based, and her veil is closet to a Christian nun.)

These women are all very different from Anja and yet! They are genuinely happy to be around her and have her as their friend. "Dethmas" proves this!

We have Serverta, who's most obvious traits are her provocative style and manners, as to Anja's cloak and veil. Molly is from a heavy drinking family, something that Anja is never seen doing. Then there is Stella, who's way of speaking differs from Anja in both vocabulary and volume, while Anja is still silent around the group. Then there is Rose, the all American typical housewife, with a mostly normal life, something Anja does not have.

An important aspect of their relationship is that they include Anja in their adventures, even when she herself may not be 100% in. During the flashbacks to their first Christmas, we see Anja with the girls while they are fooling around getting drunk and messing with each other sexually. They don't push her past her limits and instead, let her do her own thing while with them.

They don't pressure her to play twister (She's not seen in the photo). They don't come on to her in the sauna and instead let her make a move on someone else (I find this incredibly important to the flashback of Anja with Aslaug in bed! This is Anja making a move on her own and exploring her choices and NOT having someone on top of her while she looks away. SHE'S TOUCHING THEM! SHES LOOKING! SHE'S FULLY DRESSED! This is obviously her choice! Sexual freedom! Lesbian maybe??) They don't make her drink or participate with the male strippers. This is something she is never seen doing, which also separates her from the group but never excludes her.

A deleted scene where Dr. Rockso (why did they give him such a fat ass here?) is entertaining the moms during the same episode shows Anja in a skimpier dress and actually participating in the strip tease show. (Could this be where Toki gets his love for clowns? Maybe!) This, mixed in with the scraped "Sexy Dress" Anja, is probably set after Murderface gets funding for his Christmas Special and the moms need to be entertained in the montage. Point is, they always include her and never push her past her boundaries and let her make her own decisions. Which brings us to the mall!

The group actively acknowledges Anja and speaks to her like a true friend. They see her as who she is but also someone who is worth change. The conversation before her makeover goes as such:

"You know something, Anja. Now that you're single maybe you should find your sexy side?" - Rose

"Ooh, let's do a fucking makeover and make Anja a little sexy kitty cat." - Stella

The group is shown helping Anja find something else to wear and picking out makeup behind Murderface's phone calls. Could you imagine being in a cult for years, wearing the same thing as everyone else, and then suddenly these people who care about you, and see you as a woman and a friend, want to help you change into yourself?

I also like the detail of Serverta trying to get Anja to wear the scrapped skimpy dress from before but Rose comes in with a scarf instead and then Serverta appraises it! Like, she held up what she believes Anja could pull off (Serverta wants the girls to be girling) while Rose recognizes it might be too much too early and chooses just a simple touch instead. Serveta is supportive about it as well! They aren't pushing her into someone she isn't, they're working toward giving her self confidence and finding out who she is! Girl groups are so important for this very reason. Anja probably never had a "And we were girls together" moment. This IS her moment! They just want the best for her, which is probably so different from her life before. She is experiencing for the first time what life can really be like without the cult or her husband.

At the end of the episode, we know that the mothers get drunk and crash the Christmas Special. All but one is seen drinking, Anja. Despite their drunkenness, they still include Anja. Molly even sits next to her on stage. But not only that, ANJA IS SEEN WEARING HER SCARF AND MAKE UP FROM BEFORE! There have been multiple days since they went to the mall so that means she bought and kept the scarf and make up. SHE PUT IT ON HERSELF AND WANTED TO FEEL PRETTY! SHE WANTED TO JOIN IN ON THE ADVENTURE AND DO HER OWN THING! This is a step toward making her own choices and boosting her self-confidence! Anja is slowly but surely finding herself within the girl group!

Obviously, this group of women are not the best women Anja could have chosen, but's the group she needs. They are loud, boisterous, sexual, crazy, and opinionated women. They are not afraid to do stupid shit like their sons and have fun. They also all have done something to their children, so none of them can judge the other too harshly. Anja is in a boat of similar women, those who have done bad things before but are still living, still growing, still caring about their sons either way. It would be hard for Anja to be in a group of women who have been perfect, kind, and had a happy life with no parental/child issues. Anja sees these women as the only ones who could ever truly understand her. Hopefully, with more time, Anja will become the woman she never dreamed she could be with the help and guidance of her friends.

Counterpoints

I do want to point out some counterpoints in this theory just to round it out.

Narcissism and Indifference

I know that there is also a good chance that Anja may just not care enough about Toki to feel either way about him. Her inaction could be just that, inaction. Anja could have had all the power in the world to stop Aslaug from abusing Toki and she chose not to, because she simply did not care enough about him. Anja could be narcissistic and only care about Toki in the sense of, "What does that have to do with me?" She'll accept the gifts, she'll make the phone calls, but it's all about what she wants or what her husband wants. She could have very well only called Toki because she needed something from him for her dying husband and nothing more. Toki is a very rich man and with Aslaug gone and unable to provide for her like he once did, she might be using Toki's kindness as a way to care for herself and herself alone. The other Dethmoms do show signs of narcissism, just like their sons. It would not be far to believe that Anja is the same way. When the cross falls on Toki during "Dethmas", Anja is sitting right in front of him, listening to him scream. She does nothing. She probably listened to Toki's screams as a child and did the same thing. Nothing.

Toki's Imagination

Toki has a very vivid imagination and a desperation for love and connection. Toki also has a very hard time in picking good and long lasting friends, giving people more chances then they deserve with him.

We see this with Dr. Rockso. Dr. Rockso is a constant pain in Toki's ass, hurting him and using him for drugs, but Toki and him still hang out all of the time. Toki considers Dr. Rockso to be his best friend even. (Granted, Dr. Rockso did stop those addicts in Doomstar Requiem so Dethklok could save Toki but still.)

We see this with his own father in "Dethdad", where he chooses to forgive the man who abused and neglected him all of his life. What person would do that? Someone who wants a connection with their parents no matter what. That's why Toki is so upset when he drops his father and he drowns under the lake. Despite this man abusing him beyond comprehension, Toki still finds it in his heart to forgive while desperate enough to cry over him.

Everyone Toki has ever loved has died. His guitar teacher, the little girl, his cat. All of them have died after he has or went to make a meaningful and loving connection with them. His mother is the sole person left of his immediate family. Toki would be desperate to make amends with her and try to have a connection and Anja, with no one else to turn to, accepts. Toki could very well be blocking out or ignoring the abuse that she has done to him in favor of remembering his father's so that he can forgive her easier and have a relationship.

We see this desperate attempt to make his childhood seem better and normal in "Dethzazz" when Toki is talking to Dr. Twinkletits about his childhood. He says he loved it while showing active abuse on the screen. In "Fertilityklok", Toki desperately wants to start a family and get a wife/girlfriend after being sick and tired of just random women. In "Dethcamp", Toki's desperation for a connection is clear when he goes to camp to meet up people and make friends, even letting people pick on him for his diabetes to fit in. In "Diversityclub", Toki is feeling left out and makes his own club so that can be included and accepted. In "Breakup Klok", Toki does not venture out on his own, but instead stays with Murderface as an unpaid intern to stay close with someone he cares about and cares about him. In "Doublebookedklok", Toki is acting out because of Charles being so busy by hitting people but once Charles tells him "everyone thinks you're really cool" and "you don't need to hit people to get their attention", Toki runs to hug him and he cries. In "Doomstar Requiem", Toki even refers to Magnus while chained and abused as "My friend!" Who calls their abuser "My friend"?

Toki blocking out the bad and accepting scraps of affection and connection is not out of the ordinary. He craves it and wants it more than anything in the world.

Conclusion

I believe that Anja Wartooth is a victim a cult and was unable to raise her son the way she wanted to and instead had to do as her husband said. However, years of being in a cult changed her, and she lost who she was in favor of keeping with the cults demands and wishes and creating a new "normal" for her. Aslaug was the main abuser toward Toki and hardly allowed Anja and Toki to be together without his supervision. Toki and Anja have a developing relationship since "Dethfam" and it has been shown to be improving over the years, especially after the death of Aslaug. Anja is slowing find herself through her connections and friendships with the other Dethmoms.

Anja and Toki have a long way to go but I do see them having a much better relationship with Aslaug out of the way.

______________________________________________________________

I hoped you enjoyed this analysis. I love Toki and his mother is super interesting to me. If we ever get an epilogue, I hope we see Anja again. Hopefully away from the cult and much happier.

[sonik-kun]

"If Jiang Cheng is all about debts, he should repay his debts to Wen Qing and Wen Ning!"

What debts? The two were from a sect that decimated his own. Be it willingly or not, they occupied the burned remains of his sect and helped the war effort on the Wen side (whilst assisting WWX and JC, but bear in mind, WQ only did it begrudgingly due to the risks associated with asissiting them. It's funny that y'all would jump to her defence whilst shitting on JC when she was in the exact same position he was in btw. But that's a debate for another day~).

Expecting him to pay a debt to the people that were, to at least some degree, complicit in numerous genocides is pretty messed up.

Even then, JC DID vouch for them to express his gratitude for helping him and WWX to escape and get their parent's remains back. But the other leaders shut him down when he did and scoffed at him. I feel like I've said this so many times on here, but he was in no position to argue any further on the matter. Especially when a more established sect leader like LXC was shut down, too.

As for the core transfer that he didn't consent to, how can he thank someone for that when he never knew it had happened in the first place?? Or asked for, for that matter?? The whole thing made him feel shitty anyway when he found out about it.

WQ and WWX, although both had good intentions, still had no right to experiment on him like that and keep this very invasive secret from him for so long, too. You can't just do something for someone without them knowing or consenting and expect them to repay that "debt" when you find yourself in a pinch. That's kinda like blackmail and is very coercive.. Something WWX and the Wen sibs are certainly not..

Then there's the situation with WN. Sure, he could be thankful for WN helping to get him to safety and treating his wounds (which, see my earlier point, JC did express gratitude.) But that opportunity kinda all fizzled out when WN killed JZX (I know it was an accident due to him being under the influence of DC but let's be real. That resentment is going to be there. Espeically since the topic greatly upsets JL soooo).

Even all that aside, you seriously can't expect JC to "repay his debts" and help WN and WQ out of that situation when the whole CW was against them. Helping them was suicidal and would bring on the wrath of the other major sects. And we all saw how that went for WWX (as JC rightly predicted)..

Had JC sided with the Wens and took them in to "pay his debts," he would have dragged the whole of his sect into the siege that happened soon after. This would mean more innocents would have been involved, and it would be the destruction of Lotus Pier all over again (and quite possibly the destruction of the Jiang, too). JC had to prioritise his own people. He would be a shit leader otherwise.

I feel as though some of y'all put some unrealistic expectations on JC when assessing his character. Especially when you compare him to the others in the story (returning back to my point I made earlier about him and WQ and how similar they both are).

On the topic of "debts" though, I would also like to argue that doing a good deed out of the kindness of your heart shouldn't be seen as a debt. And if you do something with the expectation that someone would do something for you back in kind, wouldn't that make you a shitty person? Is that what you're implying the Wen sibs are (or should be) ? Self-serving people who only help others if something is to be gained? 🤨

But what about the "debt" JC goes on about, you might ask? Oh, you mean the PROMISE that WWX made HIMSELF? That he would stay by JC's side? And be his subordinate? To fulfil his role as promised and expected of him?

That wasn't a debt.

WWX construed it as being one, but it doesn't fit the criteria, honestly. What WWX had was an obligation. He made that promise himself, and JC held him to it. It wasn't one JC forced him into as some form of servitiude, nor was it made in return for bed and board or something.

We know JC isn't truly about holding debts over others. If he was, he would have dangled his own sacrifice over WWX and used that to guilt trip him instead. Or force him to pay him back in kind. But he never did. Why? Because he loved WWX, and he didn't want him to feel "indebted" to him. Especially when WWX revealed his feelings of "letting go and moving on" to him.

You could go on forever about debts and who owes who what, but the thing is, each of these characters have hurt eachother in one way or another that at this point, the notion of who owes what doesn't matter anymore. The situation is far more complex than that. That's why all "debts" were dropped at the end, and JC and WWX just moved on. I feel that was the message MXTX tried to convey in her work. About moving on and letting go of grudges. Perhaps JC antis should take on that advice? And move on too?

[10thmusemoon]

hello!! i recently read your fic where shen yuan is qijiu's baby and I loved it! In the notes, I saw that there might be more of the thread where yue qingyuan didn't leave cang qiong after he found out he was pregnant, is there anywhere I can read it? :3

Aw thanks!! And yes! I’m still in the process of making that its own proper fic but there was a little bit of that at the beginning of this thread that ultimately turns into the fic that’s posted!

(There’s also The Sect Leader is an Omega!? Which is 25k for anyone just tuning in to my omega!YQY agenda.)

Cw: omegaverse and mpreg

I’m gonna take this as an opportunity to ramble on this because I’ve been thinking about more QiJiu omegaverse.

What I love about omega!yqy and why I always revisit that dynamic, is that he’s the strongest cultivator in universe, he’s a big beefy dude, and he is everything that goes against the stereotypical omega expectations. As the sect leader he takes care of the sect and no one expects that he needs anyone to be protective over him. Not even YQY sees that as an option, he has only ever looked after others, no one has ever looked after him.

Except well, Shen Qingqiu.

Who, before they even presented, was possessive over Qi-ge and looked out for them both. And then as the lord of the second peak, as the strategist, protects YQY and that which is his (the sect), which of course, is also SQQ’s. He refuses to acknowledge that’s what happening but it is.

In a situation where their shit is together enough to have shared heats/ruts (and while it’s consensual yearning, SQQ is patting himself on the back for having ‘stolen’ YQY’s heats for himself, as if there was ever any other option YQY would consider), an accidental pregnancy only would throw a huge wrench into things.

Despite the fact that omegas are expected to get pregnant, and despite what SQQ may be driven to say while heat drunk, he never actually expects YQY to get pregnant.

So when it does happen, I fully picture it being a moment of crisis for SQQ.

And while I love the fics where he is a doting and possessive parent (see hints in NYY’s Best Day Ever), in my eyes, it wouldn’t fly like that.

In the universe where YQY stays, where SQQ actually lets him talk, his immediate reaction is that of revulsion and horror.

SQQ doesn’t want to share YQY with anyone, especially when he thinks his current hold on him is already precarious. (it’s not, they’re just both idiots who can’t talk)

I do think tho, that YQY would be ecstatic but also be hyper aware of the fact that this is a nightmare for SQQ. In YQY’s twisty brain, this is a connection to SQQ that can never be severed, one he assumes SQQ will interpret as shackles, so he won’t push for him to take responsibility of the child. He will, however, give him the option to be involved. And he really hopes he will be, but at the same time YQY sees the writings on the wall, and imagines that SQQ will no longer see him as a convenient body to warm his bed and return to the brothels.

(Having sex with drastic miscommunication is just the QiJiu way)

Mean SQQ is spiraling because WTF why would YQY keep this thing when he’s an unmarked, unmarried omega? He is ruining his, and by extension, the sect’s reputation! wtf why would he do that??!! Why would he risk everything he’s built for some child. He’s ridiculous, he’s stupid for even considering it.

(SQQ may be projecting a bit here.)

He may also be incredibly jealous of the role his own unborn child is taking in YQY’s life, superseding any importance SQQ or Xiao Jiu may have held. But at the same time, instincts and his general possessiveness over YQY, means he can’t exactly stay away. He bitches and moans and acts like he doesn’t care but he is involved during the pregnancy process because he can shamelessly dote on YQY (while pretending he isn’t) and provide for him in ways he hasn’t otherwise been able to. Their inner omega/alphas are just singing the entire way through. YQY is being cared for by the most important person to him and SQQ gets to be openly territorial in a way that no one can question. (The pregnancy sex is insane, so much emotional tension that they think only They are feeling!!)

The other peak lords also have to like, deal with whatever is going on with them. Their shared heat/ruts were an open secret but now there is a BABY?? I do think that at some point SQQ will lie and say they’ve Been married for years, just to cover for their reputations. In true pidw, this doesn’t help His reputation because people remember all too well the rumors of his brothel visits but what can they say when YQY is vibrating out of his skin with happiness over this.

(This becomes another Thing they don’t talk about, but being called husband in bed is as good as hitting the g-)

Then comes Shen Yuan.

And now there is this physical manifestation of the thing that will steal YQY away. By nature of being a baby, he does take a lot of attention away from SQQ due to the fact that he is literally dependent on YQY to stay alive. The rosey days together come to an end as SQQ retreats to brood and YQY is being depressed that the wick has finally burned out and their farce of a relationship is over.

He’ll come over sometimes (refusing to admit it’s because he misses YQY) just to look at SY, to try to find the traces of YQY in him that he can latch onto. Unfortunately babies don’t really look much like anything at first but swollen little aliens, so it really doesn’t help. Even worse, when he starts to develop his own distinct features, SY looks more like Shen Qingqiu.

And there is no one SQQ resents more than himself.

There's more to this such as how the other peak lords play into thing but in the end, I think it would take something flipping in SQQ's brain where he starts categorizing SY as something valuable of his (like his favorite hair pin, or expensive robes) that he starts to care about SY as something other than a Thing That Belongs to YQY.

When SY starts to develop his own personality and independence, I think that's where the next major shift would happen. Oh look, here is a thing that is no longer something like a creature and is a human with thoughts and agency and some of those thoughts include idol worshiping SQQ and YQY. Hmm.....interesting.

(in a transmigration situation, i don't think SY would have access to all his memories until he's older so this is plausible!)

Anyways, SY is upgraded from Expensive Hairpin to Purse Dog where SQQ gets a kick out of dressing him up, doing his hair, seeing what tricks he can do, and showing him off. But the second he needs actual human connection, he shoves him back at YQY.

As SY ages (and subsequently earns SQQ's respect) he's able to identify what SQQ is saying between barbs and mutual, if distant, affection. Having grown up with the titular scum villain, and seeing him be affectionate with YQY, he would be invested enough to do well to save both their skins from Luo Binghe's wrath.

Does being a parent make SQQ a better teacher? Hmmmm debatable, possibly unlikely, there is no YQY for him to throw his disciples at but at the very least he has a basis of comparison for age appropriate mile markers.

(He does not, SY is not a normal child by any means. His lineage and transmigration have made him OP in all the ways.)

SQQ will look at his students struggling to master something SY learned three years previously and get an opportunity to both shame and brag, he delights in this. Meanwhile, SY is dying inside, certain that he now has a horde of enemies across QJP (He does NOT, the wife beam is in affect) so he actively decides to stay on QDP and hide behind YQY's skirts and tag along to meetings so he can be nosey about the world building. He is also living his best life as the spoiled son of the sect leader and wandering across the peaks getting into monster shenanigans. In a nod to canon, instead of bringing back lost fans (because SQQ would never!) it's SY that LQG drops off to QJP or QDP by the scruff of his robes.

(SQH is going insane in the bg, WTF is happening with his plot?!)

To match the Father, Oh Father reveal, here Shen Yuan's freak out would be over finding out that QiJiu never actually married and that their whole relationship is even WEIRDER than he initially thought.

(meanwhile LBH sees qijiu as a love story and plans to follow in their footsteps and marry shen yuan so they can rule the sect together. Little does he know that sy has 0 plans of becoming the sect leader.)

[markiafc]

i love and appreciate western media very much, but there really are some feelings only chinese media can tap into. it's the eternal tension between conforming to long-established tradition v. defying it all and being something new, something deviant. we find that conflict in the ideological battles between chinese philosophies; the criticisms and derivations between confucianism, buddhism, daoism, mohism, etc. we find it in the way chinese states are always torn between honoring traditional values v. loosening their grip to accommodate those at the margins. we find it in people like myself; i grew up in a very religious chinese buddhist family, having to studiously study buddhism and some prominent confucian texts. inside the cultural consciousness, there are real living people. and they want so badly to break free from convention, its suffocating and painfully limiting. at the same time, it feels so important and they want to keep engaging with it, they can't abandon something so close to their identity and heart.

mlc also dedicates itself to discussing this push and pull. and it lives in this grey area, this overlap of tradition and nonconformity. fanghua exemplifies this wonderfully, by embodying the traditional and non-traditional family all at once.

lxy is fdb's master, his role model. he is the ideal patriarch of jianghu (as @seventh-fantasy very rightly points out, lxy is the ideal picture of a mohist leader, mohism is the ideological inspiration behind wuxia fiction and all). on the other side of this same coin, llh serves as fdb's protector and guardian. he takes fdb under his wing and roof, looks out for fdb and passes his teachings down to him. llh raises him as a fair, wise and dependable jianghu figure, so much so that llh names fdb as his successor in the farewell letter. fdb inherits everything that was llh's, his house, dog, his skills and his legacy.

to fdb, he is both lxy and llh's heir. he owes them a lot. he wants to do right by them. he is their charge, the seed they both nurtured.

lxy/llh is also 长辈 an elder to 晚辈 the junior, fdb. there is an age gap between lxy/llh and fdb. in addition to his canonical status as master, guardian and uncle in a way, llh is a member of the older generation and fdb is a youth of the new age (the era of lxy's sigu sect v. the era of baichuan's sigu sect). tianji is fdb's family in regular society and llh is fdb's family in the jianghu world. and fdb is lucky to have parental figure(s) in both spheres.

to lxy/llh, fdb is his responsibility. fdb is his burden and also his pride. he is the naive youth that llh accepts into his home to mentor. lxy/llh holds seniority. and there is a certain amount of distance he expects from fdb. even if fdb refuses to abide. similar to the princess zhaoling who was kept at arm's length by the older girls in the mansion, fdb is kept at arm's length by llh.

so traditional dynamics and social roles lie at the root of fanghua. and yet there is:

a) an explicit rejection of blood family (fdb rejects sgd and lxy/llh chooses his adopted jianghu family over bloodline) wherein the family & marriage is said to be a foundational unit of chinese society,

b) an ambiguity, it is hard to slap one single label on fanghua because they embody multiple things at once. their dynamic derives from the traditional chinese concepts of family and seniority. there is duty and obligation that goes both ways. but the boundaries delineating each form of that are broken down. fanghua resembles father/son, and mother/son, and uncle/nephew, and master/disciple in one package. fdb also believes them to be shoulder to shoulder in friendship, equal partners, and that adds another layer of ambiguity.

there is a unique mobility and ability to traverse between definitions, and that marks them as non-traditional. an elusive quality that is built on top of the traditions that we know.

[incarnadinedreams]

Jiang Cheng was silent, as though he had finally become calmer. Wei WuXian put his hand on his shoulder again, "In the future, you'll be the sect leader, and I'll be your subordinate, like your father and my father. So what if the GusuLan Sect has its Two Jades? The Yunmeng Jiang Sect will have its Two Prides! So, shut up. Who said that you don't deserve to be the sect leader? Nobody can say this, even you can't either. If you do you're looking for a beating."

Jiang Cheng snorted, "You see how you are right now? Who can you beat up?"

-- Ch. 56, ExR translation

I've seen the take around that Wei Wuxian never broke any promises to Jiang Cheng, because in the 'Twin Heroes of Yunmeng' promise he said they would be like their fathers. Since Wei Changze left Yunmeng, then Wei Wuxian was never intending to actually be Jiang Cheng's right-hand man, and therefore no broken promises. Easy peasy.

And I personally just can't get behind that interpretation. I do think that in a more meta sense the parallel is interesting; that's part of the whole tragic irony of the situation. And that only works if Wei Wuxian didn't mean it that way, but it ended up becoming true anyway, in the most horrible and unpleasant ways. And I do think there can be some interesting exploration of the way promises can mean different things to different people without either of them really being wrong.

But I feel like it's doing a huge disservice to Wei Wuxian's character to run with the take that he actually meant to have some sort of loophole in there. It's very much a miss the forest for the trees kind of thing. Sure, you've successfully gotten him out of one broken promise... but what would that mean, if it were true?

I just don't think the line about their fathers was some sort of tricksy, cunning thing he inserted as a gotcha. He wasn't trying to legalese his way out of it, he wasn't trying to pull one over on Jiang Cheng. Viewing it that way kind of destroys what was, for me, one of the most emotionally poignant moments of the novel. If it were the case, he'd be rather shallow and manipulative for it, and that just doesn't resonate with me. Not to mention it doesn't make much sense to carefully insert a loophole into a promise he never needed to make in the first place.

As a Yunmeng Shuangjie Enjoyer, for me this scene is like the valiant last stand of innocence. Up to this point, our plucky protagonist and friends have escaped every trial largely unscathed. The comically evil villain has been resoundingly humiliated (for now), the big angry turtle of slaughter has been slaughtered, everyone made it home in one piece after a romantic(?) cave interlude, more or less. It was difficult, sure, but our heroes prevailed in the end. A few injuries, some scars, but nothing really bad - yet.

There's drama, there's strife, but at this point it's of a more personal, domestic nature: Jiang Cheng's sadness at what he feels is his father's dislike, his sense of inadequacy and being overlooked, his mother's scolding, the stress and discord within the household regarding rumors and Wei Wuxian's ambiguous role, and the pain of being pulled in between his parents. Painful, to be sure, just very limited in scope compared to what we know is coming.

But in the midst of that turmoil, this scene is Wei Wuxian giving Jiang Cheng hope for a future where he can forge his own path. That they can create something different but wonderful, with Wei Wuxian by his side, where it doesn't matter what rumors are going around or what mistakes their parents have made. It's an 'us against the world' moment; it's an outright declaration of a bond that had been, as far as we know, largely unspoken and assumed up to this point.

Whatever type of bond you read into them having, it solidifies something between them. It's putting into words his confidence in Jiang Cheng's potential when he believes his father doubts him. This is one of the few ways he is allowed to express unwavering support for Jiang Cheng in a sea of ambiguous ties and fraught relationships.

It's supposed to be tragic. It's supposed to be the shining light that gets snuffed out by the darkness and horrors that follow. The tragedy is that promises earnestly made sometimes must be broken, no matter how good the intentions were when they were made. The tragedy is that it's the enormity of their sacrifices for each other that, unknowingly, drive them apart. It's the secrets they keep to spare one another, it's the slow building of a death-spiral of conflicting priorities and duties, it's the very roles the promise was meant to bridge the gap between that makes this promise untenable, impossible to keep.

And I believe that's why we see, so much later, that this promise is the crux of Jiang Cheng's breakdown at Guanyin Temple, even after everything else that had happened.

Jiang Cheng cried soundlessly, but tears had already streaked across his face. To cry in such an unsightly way in front of others was almost impossible for him in the past. But every single moment that passed from now on, as long as the golden core remained in his body, as long as it could still revolve, he'd forever remember this feeling.

He choked, "... You said I'd be the sect leader and you'd be my subordinate, you said you'd help me your whole life, you said you'd never betray the YunmengJiang Sect... You said so yourself."

"..." After a moment of silence, Wei WuXian replied, "I'm sorry. I broke my promise."

-- Ch. 102

I believe what Jiang Cheng is really grieving is that bright-eyed, optimistic vision of the future they'd shared in that moment, us against the world, together, and there are so few ways they're allowed to express the weight of everything they mean to each other that he can only cling to a promise that represents the distillation of their ties to one another.

And if Wei Wuxian never really meant any of it, if he'd been planning an out from the beginning, if he'd never shared the dream too, that would just be kinda shitty and boring instead of compellingly tragic.

[allthelittlecreepycrawlies]

Okay, so, trying to get into this less refined thing.

As I said before, I actually have an outline for how the Butterfly Effect AU is supposed to go past the point I couldn't keep writing. If y'all don't mind spoilers, I'd be interested in your thoughts.

(But I'm putting it behind a cut for those who don't want spoilers.)

By the time his parents and brother and cousin get close enough to get Huaisang's attention, both Papa Nie and Mingjue are suffering pretty horrible nosebleeds, maybe even bleeding from the eyes too, and Linsong and Zonghui are not doing much better.

Understandably, since this is the day Mingjue died in the old timeline, the blood only makes Huaisang panic more, which makes the shockwaves worse.

Mingjue has no idea how to reassure him, just holding on to him in the hopes that will help somehow.

Suddenly he feels the cold shock of ghostly hands reaching into his body, something that had never happened before since Huaisang had always been partially solid.

While he's still stunned, he can feel something like layers and layers of grime being burned off his core as Huaisang clutches it. As the shockwaves die down, he finds himself feeling... better. A lot better. Even though he was nowhere near the qi deviation he'd experienced in the old timeline, the resentment was still starting to accumulate, and now it's just gone.

Huaisang seems to be just as surprised that whatever he did worked, at least as a temporary fix.

He starts to reach for their dad to do the same to him, but then he... flickers a little bit, like a struggling candle flame.

Oh. Shit. Papa Nie immediately realizes that they are now very short on time and orders everyone else to go get Huaisang's mama, the other siblings/extended family members, and every healer and strong cultivator they have, because they can't hold out hope that Huaisang will hang on long enough for Lan Qiren and Wen Ruohan to arrive. They have to execute the saber preservation plan now and pray it doesn't destroy him for good.

It takes the entire rest of the day and almost all the way through the night to finish the ritual, and by the time it's done, Huaisang is more like a smoke wisp than a glow. Pretty much all of his family is in tears, but he's... smiling.

It worked. Generations of Nies will be able to use the pear tree as a place to cleanse their sabers when they start getting too demanding, and the pears to cleanse themselves.

His brother's alive. His parents are alive. His cousins are alive. He has a sister now. The war never started. He has no more regrets.

Realizing that they really are going to lose him now, Mingjue makes him promise he'll come back somehow, so that they can eventually reincarnate as brothers again.

And then he's gone.

Three months later, Mingjue turns thirty and takes on the sect leader role, his father being the first Nie leader ever to be able to peacefully retire.

Six years after that, a circus caravan is passing through, and is invited to perform for the locals in the courtyard of the Unclean Realms. Nie Xunyao is the first to notice something strange, and immediately goes to get Mingjue.

There's a small boy among the performers, caring for the trained bird flock with surprising ease. He's happy and healthy and greets Nie-zongzhu with a huge grin and an offer to hold one of the colorful parrotlets.

He has bright green eyes and a very familiar face.

[robininthelabyrinth]

How about an assassin Lan Qiren?

And not the calm, collected, kind if assassin. LQR is in it for the money and thrill.

The teacher thing started as an in-joke.

More formally, it was a cover story. An assassin’s clientele generally preferred not to be known, for fairly obvious reasons, and that necessitated some reason for a meeting that no one would question – and really, you’d think that after this many years, someone would have started getting suspicious of the number of times a targeted assassination was the immediate aftermath of Lan Qiren’s travel to meet the parents of “prospective students”, but in actual fact no one ever had.

Of course, it helped that most of his clientele themselves didn’t realize he was the assassin. He had no idea what stories they were telling themselves – that he was a patsy, that the assassin had just infiltrated his party, whatever – but it didn’t really matter; it was funny. Even funnier was the fact that later on, most of those parents really actually did send him their kids for him to teach, as if Lan Qiren knew shit about teaching beyond just telling the students the rules and making them copy lines or whatever.

Maybe they felt they needed to justify why they’d called him over or something. Some of them went even further and started bragging to their friends that Lan Qiren wasn’t just a teacher, but a great teacher, one thing leading to another, and suddenly he had a reputation in the cultivation world as a wise old mentor figure, solemn and strict and above it all.

His older brother had very nearly torn something laughing.

“You?” he cackled from his seclusion, which was only a small impediment to his doing what he could for the sect. “You – you bastard, you, you of all people? Wise? They wouldn’t say that if they’d seen you at work!”

Lan Qiren thought about the last job he’d done – he’d assassinated some asshole while he’d been nestled in his favorite courtesan’s arms, a tricky job that had involved scaling several wall, walking through a brothel without being seen, and literally throwing himself into a canal to avoid being captured at the end due to a slight miscalculation about a dog – and grimaced in reluctant agreement.  

They probably wouldn’t.

His brother hooted.

“Oh, that’s fantastic,” he said. “Fantastic. You getting a reputation for being the Lan sect’s renowned instruction, the prize jewel…It’s even funnier than you getting to be acting sect leader in my place, which is the exact opposite of what all those stuck-up old elders wanted.”

Lan Qiren certainly had to agree with that. That was the whole reason he’d been trained as an assassin in the first place, actually – the Lan elders had hated him, hated the idea of him, what he represented. Hated the idea that they might have to admit that their sect leader had had a son by an outside woman, a woman very much not his wife and dao companion, in violation of all their sect rules…they’d passed him off to the world as the sect leader’s wife’s second son, all to save the sect’s face, but in secret they’d demanded he be made an assassin, a disgraceful but necessary role that barred him from the right of having children of his own. They’d meant for him to fade into his brother’s shadow and be forgotten.

Things hadn’t really worked out that way.

“I’ve got another job,” he said instead. “Tricky one. Needs the authorization of our dear sect leader.”

“Like you wouldn’t forge my signature if you really wanted to,” his brother sniggered. “Yeah, all right, sure. Tell me all about this one - and make it juicy.”

[thebiscuiteternal]

Oh do share more about this reverse nies AU with Wen Ruohan if you so wish 👀💕

Okay, so. As usual with my assorted takes on Wen Ruohan's relationship to the Nies: It's complicated.

Wen Ruohan was already an adult and advanced enough in his cultivation to stop showing his age at the time he met the brothers' father.

His perception of time was also starting to become slightly warped by that point too.

This is the reason his temper is so unpredictable; he genuinely doesn't always remember that he's known someone for x days or x years most of the time and so he might see someone as a friend or a mere acquaintance or an enemy all within the span of a couple of days. For reasons no one's really been able to decipher, because mere affection doesn't seem to be a defining factor, the only people who have been able to break through that difficulty are:

His sons (and they have trouble sometimes, especially since Wen Ruohan has forgotten their mother completely)

Wen Qing and Wen Ning's parents (his closest friends within his own family) and to a much lesser degree Wen Qing herself

Nie Haoran (my Papa Nie)

Lan Qiren

And much to everyone's surprise, little Huaisang

He sees the potential for a brilliant political manipulator in this shy, sickly, frequently overlooked child and decides to make nurturing that into his little hobby. If you were to ask him why he finds this so interesting, he probably couldn't give you a reason, he just does.

He encourages Huaisang in scholarly efforts, encourages the friendship with his own firstborn son, always has a gift for him, always makes sure to be someone safe for the boy. He even entertains the thought of, and jokes with Haoran about, stealing Huaisang away to flourish in the Wen sect (in what role? Well, he doesn't really have an answer for that either. Besides, it's just kidding around.... right?)

And then just a month or so after Huaisang's thirteenth birthday, something goes horribly wrong with Wen Ruohan's latest cultivation breakthrough. He starts having even more trouble properly perceiving time, his mood swings start becoming more violent and unpredictable, and he starts growing more paranoid that everyone is conspiring against him, even his oldest living friends like Nie Haoran.

With his deteriorating sanity, perhaps the incident with Nie Haoran's saber was an inevitability. In his fully lucid moments, he regrets the impulsive murder. He didn't mean for things to get so out of hand! And now one of his oldest friends is gone, and now the boy he invested so much time and affection in fears and hates him, as does the rest of the sect that now pretends to follow the boy.

Perhaps things wouldn't have fallen apart into outright war if there had been anyone capable of reining him in. But his sons and many others in his sect are perfectly happy to go along with his ambitious delusions for their own power-hungry reasons, those like his cousins and Wen Qing don't particularly care whom outside the sect get hurt as long as they're safe, the majority of the rank and file in the sect are terrified of him, and none of the other sect leaders have the power to stand up to him.

Least of all the boy leader constantly being undermined by his own supposed disciples and ignored when he tries to warn everyone else of the danger they're in.

Poor thing. He'll just have to remove all the liars, the conspirators, the traitors, the ungrateful- and once all of the other sects have been brought to heel, the jianghu will be safe for bright little neglected sparks.

[spockandawe]

There's something deeply fascinating to me about Nie Mingjue, despite what a minor role he plays in mdzs in general, and while a lot of it comes back to the relationships he had with Nie Huaisang and Lan Xichen, the bulk of the really crunchy depth comes back to the complicated dynamics at work between him and Jin Guangyao. The others are great, don't get me wrong, but I'm not still regularly rotating them in my head and finding a new angle that I hadn't really considered before.

I'm not going to rehash all the backstory about different ideals and moral codes, I don't have any particularly fresh insights there. But I was thinking about all the intense big brother energy in the 3zun trio, and I caught myself - Jin Guangyao isn't actually a big brother. Iirc, he's close to (exactly?) the same age as Jin Zixuan (I think there was debate on the shared birthday not meaning they were born the same year), but regardless, they never met until they were basically adults. And his other half-siblings are at an even greater remove. It's not like Nie Mingjue and Lan Xichen, where not only were they close with their little brother, but their biological parents were absent, and they were a major force in raising that little brother.

Jin Guangshan flips a casual middle finger to Jin Guangyao by eventually giving him a name with the wrong generational character, which messes with the perception of age a little, makes him seem older than he is. And Jin Guangyao has a very... responsible mindset, he became Nie Mingjue's deputy at an impressively young age, politics and business come naturally to him, even with Jin money and the position of sect leader, it's impressive how well he's able to wrangle the other sects of the world. He has big adult energy from a pretty young age.

And my first thought was that wait, no, he's not an oldest sibling, he's Baby. At the brothel, he was his mom's only child, but he was also surrounded by a sea of aunts and older sisters the entire time he was growing up, right up until he left. He's a fairly small man and he has a sweet face, he was absolutely baby until he set out for the Jin sect and got thrown down the stairs.

My second thought was that hold on, even if things were like that in the brothel, being the family baby still came with a lot of shitty treatment from all these older sisters and aunts. It's notable that there was one person in that place who was nice enough to him and his mother that he decided she deserved to be saved. It's textual that people there looked down on this pretentious lady who thought she was such an intellectual and better than everyone else and had delusions of her son becoming a cultivator. Between this and the treatment from Jin Guangshan upon arrival, by the time Jin Guangyao meets Nie Mingjue, if he associates himself with siblinghood in any way, it's negative.

And I really do think that Nie Mingjue takes the whole Elder Sibling Responsibility thing very seriously! I think his expression of it can be a very rigid and unflexible sort of love, and smothering to anyone who isn't already aligned with his ideals and priorities, but I do also think he's extremely sincere in terms of it being an expression of care and that it's something he thinks is central to his role as a brother.

Does he want to project that onto Lan Xichen? Sure, why not! Lan Wangji isn't a clone of Lan Xichen, but he's very smart and very skilled, he and his brother are a temperamental match, and the things his family prioritizes come naturally to him. They have an easy, intimate relationship, and we do see Lan Xichen making moves to protect Lan Wangji at his own expense in canon. Perfect big brother work, you get an a+ on your nie mingjue brothering report card. But that isn't going to work at all for Jin Guangyao.

Once Jin Guangyao is accepted into the Jin family, his position is still... oof. Well, his dad's wife beats him, for a start. Her son is the one who's going to be the sect leader someday, and having the wrong generational character reinforces how much Jin Guangyao is being hamstrung. But he's still got responsibilities and duties piled on top of his head, his father blames him for all sorts of things that go wrong, he's been basically installed in a senior place to Jin Zixuan in the family, but it's a position that will be leapfrogged by the inheritance, it's all the downsides of the role with as few benefits as Jin Guangshan can get away with, and it's all happened with 1) no emotional attachment to anyone in this shithole and 2) lots of reasons to resent the family that could have effortlessly lifted him out of poverty, and chose to leave him and his mother suffering instead.

And Nie Mingjue, in that heavy-handed assuming way he has (I love him, truly), is like 'yeah, you're a big brother, and I am now going to project all the responsibility that I feel for my little brother onto you. idk why you have a problem with this, Xichen is fine.' I'm outside of the text now, for sure, but this is a perfect echo of Nie Mingjue's frustration with Nie Huaisang's interests, and we already saw Jin Guangyao navigating that divide in the story. Nie Mingjue struggles to understand why Huaisang won't practice with his saber, and why he wants to collect fans instead. Yes, okay, i get it, he likes fans, i'm glad he's having fun, but the saber is a DUTY.

This is just one ingredient in a complicated soup, but it really has me fascinated. I think the most interesting thing is that it seems like an area where Lan Xichen would have trouble understanding exactly where Jin Guangyao is coming from either. He's sweet, and he's much better at listening and empathizing, but he's still a sheltered rich boy. And I think this is all ultimately a tragedy, to be clear. I think that Lan Xichen and Nie Mingjue both really value their brothers and everything about those sibling relationships, and that Nie Mingjue especially has Issues with projecting his own values onto other people, but that he thought that being integrated into a family and made a brother would be beneficial, and a positive role for Jin Guangyao to fulfill. It adds some interesting depth for me to add that into his late-stage frustration with Jin Guangyao, and his anger when he perceives Jin Guangyao as being derelict in his duties. 3zun is really such a tragic dynamic, especially because I'm convinced that under the politics and social maneuvering, there really was also a sincere desire to create something good. But by that point in his life, I'm not sure Jin Guangyao was able to approach the idea of a brotherly relationship with anything other than wary, guarded caution.

[youhideastar]

I'm still thinking about Concord (so! compelling!); I saw your post about Lan Qiren, and I'd love to hear similarly about Lan Xichen. Early on, he thinks WWX will be an asset to the sect, so if he's fine later with not letting WWX contribute, does he think he was just mistaken? Has LXC already seen that WWX won't be allowed to parent, and is fine with that (vs that being a breaking point for LWJ), or has LXC just not thought ahead that far? (Or did he have some other hope for their future?)

Oh, man, such a good question, and thank you for asking (and for your kind words about the fic): my answer could be many thousands of words! Lan Xichen is such an interesting character, and I want to acknowledge that there are many ways to interpret what we see of him in canon, and that Concord deliberately takes the least sympathetic of those interpretations. But even so, he has reasons for what he does… and what he doesn’t do. I’m way more comfortable commenting on the writing process than writing meta, so forgive me any infelicities! But here are some overall forces at work:

Lan Xichen doesn’t know what’s going on with Wei Wuxian. He views his brother’s relationship with his husband as their private business. He doesn’t know what Wei Wuxian does with his time; for all he knows, Wei Wuxian has found some way to be useful other than teaching. In fact, he has! And in the back half of the fic, he sees Wei Wuxian in the library, sees him sparring and night hunting and going on cute little dates to Caiyi Town with Lan Wangji – things look normal. Nothing to be concerned about. So in response to your question about whether Lan Xichen is okay with Wei Wuxian not being an asset to the sect—the truth is, Lan Xichen doesn’t see it that way. After all, Gusu Lan Sect already has a head disciple. They weren’t expecting Wei Wuxian to fill some kind of gap there.

Lan Xichen doesn’t see himself as being in charge (and he may be right). Lan Xichen is the sect leader. But he’s also Lan Qiren’s nephew, and his duty as a filial nephew is to defer to Lan Qiren—and perhaps to the Lan elders as well, who are, let’s remember, mostly Lan Xichen’s older relatives. Officially, he has the final say over Gusu Lan Sect; but as a matter of filial piety, it’s arguably not appropriate for him to overrule the elders or his uncle. On this point, consider the scene in the drama when he tries to send Lan Qiren away with the books when Cloud Recesses is under attack – this is actually very irresponsible on his part! As the sect leader (as Lan Qiren points out!), even if everyone else dies, he has to survive… but instead of acting like a sect leader, Lan Xichen prioritizes the role of the filial nephew.

Lan Xichen is all about avoiding conflict. The side of Lan Xichen we see in Concord is the go-along-to-get-along, sure-I’ll-drink-that-wine-Jin-Zixun side. For most of the fic, he’s presented with situations where defending Wei Wuxian would cause conflict (with the elders or other sect members), but not defending him won’t cause conflict (because there’s no one on the other side standing up for Wei Wuxian). His choice is easy.

Lan Xichen is justifiably disturbed by Wei Wuxian’s resentful-energy speech. This is an area where I think I, as the author, failed. I’ve heard repeatedly from diaspora fans that Wei Wuxian’s ideas about heretical cultivation are intended to be understood as, in the words of one excellent post, “many levels of holy shit that’s not okay my dude.” So I tried hard, in Concord, to get across how horrifying Wei Wuxian’s ideas really are in the culture in which he’s operating. I wanted to convey that suspending Wei Wuxian from teaching in response is kind of harsh but totally justifiable. Like, it’s probably not what I would do, and it shouldn’t be permanent, but the ideas he proposed are truly awful. Like if a high school biology teacher got up in front of class and was like, “I think medical experiments on unconsenting human subjects are actually fine, because it advances the cause of human knowledge!”

But I can tell from comments that I largely did not succeed. (Which I appreciate! This is one of the great things about getting comments - you can LEARN from them! 🥳) Many of those who commented clearly believed that removing Wei Wuxian from his teaching responsibilities was an overreaction at best and cruelly punitive at worst, which then affects how those readers view the Lan elders and Lan Xichen (and Wei Wuxian) throughout the rest of the fic. I took a risk in trying to change readers’ view of an interaction they’ve probably seen/read/thought about a million times, and the risk didn’t pay off – that happens! But as a result, I think most readers view Lan Xichen in a more negative light than I intended.

All that being said… Lan Xichen needs to pull his head out of his ass. You asked specifically whether Lan Xichen has played the scenario out to realize that there’s no way Wei Wuxian would be allowed to raise Lan Wangji’s children. He hasn’t. (If he had, he’d be a lot more active in trying to change Wei Wuxian’s situation, because the thought of re-enacting their mother’s fate is just as horrifying to him as it is to Lan Wangji.) But he should have. The reasons I’ve outlined above are real, and hopefully understandable. But I don’t mean them as excuses.

Being so conflict-avoidant that you fail to stand for your principles or protect those who are being harmed is not okay. And if Lan Xichen is such a poor politician that he can’t figure out how to advocate for Wei Wuxian without violating the rules of filial piety, he has no business being sect leader. Wei Wuxian expressed some horrifying ideas… but, like, once, and it’s not like he said them as a teacher. Ignorance is not an excuse: Wei Wuxian is a member of his family (and the family of a key political ally), and Lan Xichen should be taking an active interest in his welfare.

But Lan Xichen is going to do better. The fic ends where it ends, and after that, it’s a choose-your-own-adventure! But in my mind, the “Wei Wuxian locked up and visited by his kids once a month” endgame, when Lan Wangji lays it out for him in the near future, is as much a wake-up call for Lan Xichen as it is for Lan Wangji. Lan Xichen isn’t just a collection of flaws: he’s empathetic and kind, unusually flexible for a Lan, and he loves his brother very much. When Lan Wangji seeks allies and advocates for Wei Wuxian, Lan Xichen will be the most important member of that group.

I hope that answered your question, and thank you again for asking!

[withthewindinherfootsteps]

I loved your meta about lwj discovering his own identity over time. It got me thinking - how about lxc in a similar(ish) way?

Imo he also starts out similar to lwj - as the first jade, defined by his ability to be the perfect disciple, etc. Then during sunshot he seems to develop as his own person more - all the stuff in the novel about him being a source of hope etc. And then, post time-skip, he's sort of... just the lan sect leader. Idk, I see him as sort of losing that individual identity when he fully takes on the sect leader role. I guess he might still be trying to keep some of his individuality as part of the venerated triad, but it's still part of a group instead of being 'himself'. And of course at the end of canon he's lost that too, so...

What do you think?

Thank you so much!

One thing we first need to consider about Lan Xichen is that he’s not a main character, and when it comes down to it, isn’t that important to Wei Wuxian. That means the novel itself doesn’t focus as much on him — reputation in the eyes of others or otherwise — in as much detail as it does on people like Lan Wangji, so even if he did grow, we wouldn’t see as much of it. We get more focus on him throughout the Sunshot Campaign partly because a lot of what we see of the actual Sunshot Campaign is through Nie Mingjue’s eyes — someone who does have very close ties to him*. That could very much affect the way he seems to be growing more in depth during that time, and losing that depth afterwards.

That being said, there are other factors that could play into this. Firstly, unlike Lan Wangji, Lan Xichen is a Sect Leader. No matter what he does, he will be defined by that, unlike Lan Wangji who is still very high status but is ultimately able to choose his identity himself, because being the second son of a Sect Leader may decide one’s status, but not their role… which is something being Sect Leader very much does do. Lan Xichen has the ability to define himself as ‘a good Sect Leader’ or ‘a unique Sect Leader’ or whatever else, but ‘Sect Leader’ will be a part of that. 

…However, Lan Xichen’s personality also plays a role in how he seems not to have grown as much. He has one very understandable problem— he doesn’t like to face things outside of his comfort zone.

We see this the most in his attitudes to other people. He doesn’t want to challenge his view of Jin Guangyao and face the fact he may be a bad person, because that would mean accepting something he’s not comfortable with. He doesn’t want to think about the reasons his parents did what they did, because he doesn’t want to be faced with the fact that someone — whether among his parents or among the wider Lan clan — was culpable, and it’s easier to keep futilely believing nobody was (there was a very good meta about this, but I can’t find it or remember who it was by, so if anyone knows what it is please tell me and I’ll link it here). This is what he says about his mother when he’s talking to Wei Wuxian: 

Lan XiChen, “In my memories, Mother had indeed been so. I do not know why she did such a thing back then. And, in truth, I…”

He took a deep breath before confessing, “I do not want to know either.”

- Chapter 64, EXR translation 

And I don’t blame him for this! He doesn’t want to face the possibility that the people he trusts, the people whose memory he cherishes, the system he’s a part of, have been in the wrong this whole time, and have done that consciously. Like I said before, it’s very, very understandable.

…But not being willing to face conflicting worldviews does hinder one’s capacity for growth, and in Lan Xichen’s case I think this is the key reason he doesn’t seem to grow much post-Sunshot. In and leading up to the Sunshot Campaign, he was thrown out of his comfort zone without choice. His home was burned, his clan was in chaos, the world was embroiled in a violent war — he had no choice but to accept and adapt to that, and to confront things outside of what he was comfortable with, if he wanted him and his sect to survive.

But afterwards? The world is similar enough to what it was before, and he’s free to act the way he’s always had, as part of upper-class society. He doesn’t have to confront any facts or worldviews that challenge his own, and because he’s free to avoid it, he does. And he doesn’t really grow or change because of that.

At the end of the novel, the pattern repeats. He’s forced to confront facts and start to grow as a person, contemplating his actions, because he had no other option. When he sees with his own eyes Jin Guangyao killed Nie Mingjue, how can he avoid confronting that fact?

Lan Xichen is a character who does want to do good, and who does definitely has the capacity to grow as a person. But that only happens when he’s forced into a situation where he has to confront something, because he isn’t willing to confront things outside his worldview, and so doesn’t grow.

And he doesn’t seem to develop because of that.

—

*I checked to make sure, and the part where it talks about Lan Xichen becoming a ray of hope in the Sunshot Campaign is in those flashbacks (Guile 3), leading up to his appearance.

[lumilasi]

NOTE: this bio is now totally outdated

Name: Angus Belmont

Nicknames: Angie (his sister) Belmont/Scarlet Drake/Master (the cult who mistook him for an old legend) Doc (Chouma)

Age: Exact age is unknown, his demonification has caused his body to mostly remain at the age he was when he was infected, around his thirties.

Height: 179 cm

Former doctor/brief semi-accidental cult leader/protective big brother. 

Role: Works under one of Hanzoku's "family heads," the witch Belladonna. Arguably he has complete say on what he does though, and is her subordinate only in theory.

Family: Little sister Franziska, deceased parents. He also arguably acted as a father figure to Belladonna's son, Konjou.

Love interest: None per say, he has a physical relationship with a Chimera woman named Rouna, and clearly plays favorites with a corrupted moth spirit called Chouma. (contrary to what people might suspect though, he and Chouma do not in fact have sex. Angus won't allow it due to the obvious power imbalance between them. He sees Chouma more like his favorite subject of study/pet)

Friends: He's more of a lone wolf, but is slightly fond (in a "this is a fascinating little creature" way) of the other, less dangerous oddball moth spirit their group has, Yoruga. He also has a mutually respectful companionship with their Big Boss Hanzoku.

Rival: None, though there is tension between him and another Sect head, Amalia Marek, who is the lover of his boss Belladonna, and doesn't really like how rude and downright nasty he is towards Belladonna at times. (There is a reason behind his behavior, connected to her son Konjou)

Powers:

He can regenerate really fast, even compared to other Reverence demons, and is insanely durable.

Like all those infected by Reverence, he can shapeshift his bodyparts into different forms based around his type, in his case dragonic things, such as long claws, wings, horns, etc. As a Hydra type dragon he also has the ability to produce and create all sorts of poisons (and antidotes to them)

He can use his "aura" as a form of offence/defence, an ability not even Amalia - considered the strongest Reverence demon usually - has unlocked. This basically means he can summon three dragon heads and use them to attack people and literally devour them. (they essentially burn to ashes when swallowed by his dragon heads, at least if he chooses so. He can also just capture people like this without killing them)

He can channel Hanzoku's destructive decaying power through his aura dragon's breath. basically instead of fire, they breathe energy that decays/rots/rusts anything it touches. He can't use this for long though, and typically only once per summoning his dragon heads.

Having been on the run from the law, he's very excellent and stealth, and his doctor background has given him more than enough info on how to murder people even without using his demonic power.

His 3 sets of eyes all have different function; top pair sees into the spirit world, middle pair sees in infrared, and bottom part has normal vision. Typically he can just choose which view he processes, or utilize all three at once.

He's a former doctor so he obviously has medical knowledge, both traditional and more magic based. He also speaks a few languages (this world's equivalent of english, polish, Japanese and bit of german)

Weaknesses:

He's very protective over his sister, and can stop thinking rationally if she gets severely hurt, to his own detriment. He can start making very foolish mistakes that can enable in taking him out/incapacitating him.

Angus struggles to form meaningful connections with people outside Franziska. This is partially why he ends up being a lone wolf, because he subconsciously feels like it's not worth trying; people just won't be able to like him for who he is, and anyone who does - outside Frankie - just wants something from him/thinks he's something he's not. (something he thought even before he went on killing people)

He is actually not as in peace with this detail about himself as he thinks he is, and can get a bit aggressive/careless if someone manages to poke this sore spot.

He's pretty closed off and doesn't like people getting in his personal space without permission - apart from Franziska - due to some trauma related things; namely getting caught by surprise and injured severely, like what kickstarted the dark spiral of his life.

Angus only allows those he absolutely trusts to touch him without needing to make themselves and their intentions known, which tends to mean he might sometimes lash out at a person needlessly and injure them. He especially hated it when it happened with Konjou once or twice, even if he would not admit it.

Personality:

Angus is very stoic and calm, almost never showing much emotion outside mild annoyance or amusement. He can be quite ruthless and has no qualms in getting rid of anybody he feels he needs to. That being said he has some form of moral code left still, and tends to avoid getting involved in battles directly, not wanting to kill people just for the sake of it (something he sees fighting as).

He also tends to try and dispose of anyone he has to as painlessly as possible - unless its personal of course, or the person in question somehow rubs him the wrong way (such as being an abusive parent). Then he tends to be quite sadistic.

Angus tends to still be very professional with being a doctor for his group, and remains calm even with the fussiest of patients/lets those scared of him have somebody with them that makes them feel safer, even if it is minorly inconvenient.

Despite his cold crack and seeming disinterest towards most people, there is some genuine fondness he carries towards couple people outside his sister Franziska, and tends to pay far more attention to their wellbeing than others. These people are Rouna, Chouma, and Belladonna's son Konjou. Angus is not consciously aware of this though, apart from his sister where he's openly caring and more relaxed, even joking around with her a lot which feels out-of-character in the eyes of many.

BG STORY:

PART 1: Family Trouble

Angus' family were well-known and influental merchants, and his parents wanted him to continue the family business, despite the fact he was not interested at all in the world of business and finance. He became a doctor instead, much to the dismay of his parents, who had a strong distrust and dislike towards the medical profession. They also did not like magic, something Angus was also interested in since he was a child. They did not even consider Franziska to be the one to take over the family business due to her being a woman, and their father having more of an old-fashioned view of gender roles.

Then, one day as Franziska came to visit Angus on the clinic he was working at under the guidance of an older doctor, the said mentor ended up experimenting with some of Angus' magical objects he had for studying behind his pupil's back; not having the same knowledge of the object in question like Angus, the man ends up releasing the power held within it accidentally in a massive fiery explosion, that destroys the clinic, burns Angus quite badly and causes Franziska to fall into a coma.

Due to his burns being created by a curse of sorts rather than normal fire, Angus' burns can't be healed by traditional means, and his parents - who've taken him back home now as he supposedly can no longer work due to his injuries - ban him from trying to find a "supernatural" solution, believing it'd just get worse. It is also believed at the time that Franziska may not wake up either due to the magic-based nature of the incident that caused her coma.

In his frustration and anger over the situation, Angus manages to slip out of the house eventually, going "missing" for several weeks as he searches for a solution. He eventually comes across a peculiar creature with strong regenerative supernatural powers, that it seems to attempt to infect into other people. Angus lets the creature do so, but it does not fix his burns; it just turns them into dragon-like scaling.

The demonic power also causes his mind to start taking a turn for the worse, making him turn bloodthirsty and vengeful over the incident. Angus ends up hunting down his former mentor and killing him, before fleeing the country in search for the origin of the creature that gave him his powers, hoping it could help heal and wake his sister up if he just understood it better.

(unknowingly to him, some months after he leaves, Franziska actually does wake up and recover; she was protected from the worst of the blast and hostile magic energy thanks to Angus being between her and the source of it. He does not find this out until years later, after she's also infected and finds him)

Part 2: Scarlet Drake Belmont

During this period as a wanted man, Angus comes across a group of people worshipping some old local legend of a red Dragon of sorts, mistaking him for this being. Angus uses the group to further his research, having them kidnap test subjects for him, or sometimes they just straight up volunteer to "receive his blessing."

He is mostly known as "Belmont" or "Scarlet Drake" during this time, causing a lot of fear among the locals as more and more people go missing, or turn up dead, or catatonic in some cases. Angus did still have some sembalnce of morality left though, banning his "followers" from kidnapping children/expecting mothers.

Through his research Angus eventually finds out about Hanzoku, and after disposing of most of the cult, he heads out to go and find this being, in hopes of learning more about this peculiar power. He still keeps the mask he wore as Scarlet Drake, mainly out of nostalgia.

Part 3: Full Circle

Years later, as he works with the witch Belladonna and Hanzoku, his sister turns up, awake and well, albeit also turned into a demon. She'd become a bounty hunter in his absence, having ran off from home to pursue her dreams of an adventure, and also to escape her mourning over her brother's death, as their parents had claimed to her he died, not wanting to face the shame of their son having become a murderer.

Unfortunately, roughly around the same time, some mercenaries sent by their parents happen to track her down, tasked to bring Franziska back home. In the resulting scuffle they manage to hurt her bad enough that her powers become a bit unstable, and its only by waking Hanzoku from his slumber - and some help from the Chimera woman Rouna - that they manage to save her.

Furious, Angus requests their leader to allow him to travel home to confront his parents for this, which he grants, even letting him to just traverse through the spirit world to get there quickly rather than through traditional methods. Rouna decides to come with him, in case he'd need some assistance/out of curiosity.

Back home, Angus finds his parents arguing, with it turning out his father was having an affair with decades younger woman, since the heirs his wife provided "weren't good enough." He gains their attention and confronts them about Franziska and what happened. Due to his changed appearance, his father accuses him of fooling with things he shouldn't have and making deals with devils, disowning him as a "poor excuse of a son," and demanding Franziska to be brought back home immediatelly so she could at least birth a proper heir for them. This causes Angus to promptly impale him with his arm, killing his father in almost an instant.

His mother panics and attempts to run, grabbing some sort of magical blade to try and defend herself. Angus warns her to put it down, realizing it was a similar thing to the mirror from years ago, but to no avail; the power from within erupts and burns her alive, killing her as well.

Angus and Rouna eventually grab some things to bring back with them, with Angus eventually lighting the whole house ablaze, firmly leaving his past behind.

Fun Facts:

In case it is not clear yet; Angus is a Villain character. He's one of the antagonists in this story, starting out as a more passive BG villain, before becoming a major threat at some point in the story.

Belladonna and Angus initially have a good relationship, but as Angus starts to notice how she's kind of grooming her own son into having powers he might not actually want, his respect for her lessens. He doesn't try to stop her though, purely because at this time he did not care enough, as Konjou wasn't his son. (this is one of the very few things Angus ends up regretting by the end)

Franziska was not that upset finding out her brother had essentially become a cult leader/serial killer during his research, namely because her demon power infection had caused her moral compass to also warp into a less-than-stellar form. She was more touched than anything, that he went through all that effort for her sake. (Plus he didn't hurt kids or expecting mums - groups of really vulnerable people - and most of those he did kill were jerks anyway! .....As she put it)

Angus did in fact fuck some of his followers - though only when they expressed interest, and only sometimes. He did not require it, and after it caused unnecessary tension and the idea of people trying to gain advantage over others within the group, he stopped altogether. (it was too much of a hassle to deal with their interpersonal drama)

Angus is aromantic bi

He used to have black hair, and his OG eyecolor is brown like you can see from his smallest pair of eyes. His hair changed color because it was mostly burnt off, and when his demonification regrew it, it became blonde apart from the small patch that was still there. (This would happen with anybody infected with Hanzoku's power regenerating their hair; the shade of blonde varies and depends on the person though. Angus' blond hair matches his sister)

If I recall right, his Japanese voice claim would be Ulquiorra's voice actor from Bleach, but for english (since that'd be his native) he sounds a lot like Ruvik/Ruben Victoriano from the horror game Evil Within, just has a bit smoother voice.

[jaimebluesq]

Hi! I just saw your post about the requests/suggestions :D

I often find myself wondering "What if NMJ and NHS were born at the same day (much like JGY and JZX), and were the same age during the story? Would their relationship change? Would they still have the same friends? Would their role in the sect change as well?"

(Of course, if you're interested in writing it, you don't need to answer all those questions and it could simply be about the "twins'" shenanigans haha)

Thank you for sending me this!

Their relationship would definitely be different. A big part of their canon dynamic as I see it is the fact that NMJ is much older (I'm not sure what canon says, but my headcanon is 6 years apart), and because of their parents' deaths, pretty much had to raise NHS, being both brother and parent to him. So if they're born on the same day, that dynamic is completely removed - they can just be brothers.

So how would this affect things?

Nie Bros

Well, NMJ would have huge changes. The one thing that isn't a concern is his role as Sect Leader - not only does NHS have no interest, but being the son of Daddy Nie's concubine solidifies NMJ as the heir. But their having been raised together from the very beginning could still solidify a strong friendship between them - I imagine NHS' mother might have encouraged him to be the person to help NMJ remember what it's like to be a kid (because he's usually all work/no play). So NMJ will have someone at his side who supports his younger side, who reminds him to relax and to make friends and that there is more to life than work and leading his sect. Also NMJ would be able to step away more having a brother of equal age to temporarily manage things in his absences. The conclusion is that NMJ would be a little more relaxed and easygoing, and may not have as much Big Da-ge Energy as in canon - though he might be more frustrated with his brother's unwillingness to train/take responsibility because NHS won't be *baby*, he'll be *my lazy brother*.

NMJ would also no longer be known far and wide as Da-ge - NHS will still call him that on occasion, usually when he doesn't want to do something and wants to emphasize NMJ should do it because he's older. (NHS: Age before beauty, Da-ge! NMJ: Enough with the Da-ge, I'm five minutes older. NHS: That's still older, old man, now let me rest in peace :p)

NHS as well would have some differences because, as no longer the 'baby' of the family, I don't think he'd be spoiled QUITE as much, and probably wouldn't be allowed to get away with as much as he does. There would probably be expectations that he would eventually be NMJ's 2nd, his right-hand-man, and he'd try to get out of those as much as possible, but he'd be seen less as NMJ's natural successor and heir because he'd be encouraging NMJ to find a wife, pushing him to have a life outside of work.

Canon Events

So the big thing in my head that would be affected by all of this is the canon timeline because... *drumroll*... With our Director Nie and Sect Leader Nie being the same age when their father dies, I fully imagine them to put their heads together to avenge their father as soon as they can figure out how to succeed. They would be 15/16 when their father dies of qi deviation because of Wen Ruohan, so def. old enough to plan out revenge. We all know what happens when NHS loses someone he loves, after all, and NMJ will no longer be preoccupied with raising his baby brother, and instead can dedicated time and brainpower to taking down WRH.

I would like to think they can succeed - NHS would be more likely to try and find a 'dishonourable' method of revenge - that might actually bring conflict between them, the method of revenge and whether it's worth it - but I think their relationship would be solid enough to work through it (or at least to forgive each other in the end).

So yeah, WRH keels over in his soup one day or something and the Sunshot Campaign never happens.

Other Relationships

So... we know there are only so many characters mentioned by name in canon (hell, the Nie Bros are the only Nie mentioned at all until Fatal Journey was filmed), but from what we can see, there aren't many contemporaries to the boys. LXC would be closest at a few years younger (my headcanon is 3 years diff), but the rest of the young masters and mistresses of their generation seem to be younger. This means we won't have our One Braincell Trio (*cries*), though NHS might want to adopt JC and WWX as baby brothers.

That's all I can think of right now, but this is a fascinating idea - I'm tempted to try and write something small to get a feel for it.

Thank you again!!!

[thedarkone121]

Mo Dao Zu Shi OC: Jiang Zhengya

This took way too long, you guys. But I am so happy it’s done and I love how the posing turned out. Everyone, Jin Yuehua — courtesy name Jiang Zhengya — has her official design! Wooo!

For more background information on her, check out this post when she was still in her early draft. But took make a long story short; she’s Jin Ling’s younger twin sister and because Jin Guangshan is a jerk, she’s the Official Heir to Yunmeng Jiang. While not physically strong, she is a master of poisons and hides all of her venom behind a lady-like smile.

You got that? Great! Now, time to move onto what her role in canon would be like. And boy, do I have some ideas.

Now, having Jiang Zhengya around is bound to change some things. With her being the official sect heir to Yunmeng Jiang, I would imagine she would be raised solely by Jiang Cheng since she no longer has any relation to Jin other than by blood — unlike her brother who had to go back to the Jin Clan when they were seven since his possible position as the Jin Sect Leader.

I bring this up because I wanted a large part of her character to be unable to connect with her father’s side of the family. She’s been given way to the Jiang, she has been raised the Yunmeng Jiang way, she will have to one day lead the Jiang Clan. Jiang Zhengya was not raised Jin and in return, she doesn’t understand a lot of the thought process behind this golden snake pit.

She and Jin Ling were very close when they were younger and lived in Lotus Pier together. They would wrestle with each other, call each other names, push the other into the water, and equally cause Jiang Cheng so many heart attacks. But, they began to drift apart when Jin Ling had to go back to the Koi Tower and her remaining in Lotus Pier.

I headcanon that Jin Ling didn’t really suffer from the orphan stigma until he stayed at Koi Tower, where he was bullied by a lot of his peers for having no parents. He couldn’t fit in so I figured he developed a really haughty attitude to make it seem like he doesn’t need his peers and become great without them, so they can see what they’re missing out.

Jiang Zhengya, who knows her brother — or thought she did —, thought he was putting up an act and would still treat him the same informal way she always does. It isn’t until that Jin Ling — in a fit of rage and embarrassment — insulted her to her face, in front of all of their peers, that Jiang Zhengya felt like she didn’t know her brother anymore.

Speaking of the bullies, Jin Guangyao is a relative she didn’t know how to connect. He is very different from Jiang Cheng — someone who tries to be attentive even to the people that insult their family, meanwhile Jiang Cheng has been very open of his disdain for people who insult his niece and nephew. Jin Guangyao’s lack of action towards Jiang Zhengya’s bullies and his lecture of her not being “lady-like” when she fights back as caused Jiang Zhengya to keep her distance from him.

She gets along with Qin Su well, however. While she does love Jiang Cheng, he doesn’t always let her used his face as a test subject for her makeup skills. Qin Su has happily offered lessons and lets her be one of Jiang Zhengya’s other test subjects.

Who is her other test subject, you may ask? Mo Xuanyu.

And here we come to the thing that made me consider her role in the Timeskip. Since a few people lovely people have pointed out, Jiang Cheng is an antagonist in Wei Wuxian’s journey to solve the mystery of the cursed arm. I’m someone who likes to go outside of the box when designing characters, so I made Jiang Zhengya be an antagonist for Wei Wuxian as well. Why is she an antagonist for him? Because she knew Mo Xuanyu before he became known as “the lunatic,” so she’s someone who can easily call him out on his act.

She met Mo Xuanyu while she was being spurned by her brother again when she offered to paint his face in makeup — something she used to do all the time to make her family “look pretty”. The poor man just happened to be walking by and noticed the sad little girl holding a brush as her brother stormed away. He offered to let her paint his face and the rest is history, as one may say.

I think, for her own journey as well, I want her to uncover what happened to Mo Xuanyu. She never believed the reason for why he was kicked out of Koi Tower and she had just convinced Jiang Cheng to allow her to bring him into the Jiang Sect before Wei Wuxian was summoned. She spent most of the events trying to rescue her Little Uncle, only to realized she was too late to save him and the knowledge destroyed her.

Phew! That was a lot! That’s the general idea I had for Jiang Zhengya’s role in the canon-verse. Will I write about it one day? Maybe.