#it'd be like saying Look At Queer People. Nothing Political There

[karmaphone]

why yes I am tagging every political punk post with some variation of PuNk IsNt PoLiTiCaL. headass because of that one dumbass attempting to separate a partially politically based subculture from the politics. why do you ask

[aroaceleovaldez]

Hello, if you still have Nico di Angelo thoughts, I have a curiosity. How likely do you think it would be for Nico to express some of that internalized homophobia (that he got over way too quickly imo) towards others too?

Not violent homophobia, but little comments that make others go "huh, something about what you said feels off"

Nico doesn't mean harm by them, but he has views that are accurate to the time he was born and raised and I don't think there've been many opportunities for those views to be challenged enough for them to change (at least from what we've seen in canon, TSATS dni)

(Of course I know this is a sensitive topic so if you're uncomfortable with it feel free to ignore the ask)

I actually do have a very specific thought about this! Thank you for asking - So my take on it is I don't think Nico would have his internalized homophobia externalize at others - he's a very tolerant character in general and it's implied Maria generally raised him to be very tolerant. I think the majority of his internalized homophobia manifests mostly as a subset of his self-loathing more than anything, because he is actually very assured in his identity in general! Most of his problems with his own identity aren't actually grappling with any specific identity itself, but his concerns with how other people perceive him about said identity (being gay, son of Hades, etc). (I do agree though that in canon he moved on from that WAY too quickly.)

That being said I do think people around him would mistakenly assume he's homophobic at first, LOL.

A.) I think his language is VERY outdated, because he probably has never had the opportunity to educate himself on English queer terminology back in the day, and absolutely has never had the opportunity to educate himself on modern queer topics/terminology, nor would he probably be brave enough to do so on his own. If he's had any brushes with modern English queer stuff it'd probably be the kids at Westover saying slurs and Nico internally quietly going ("??? is that the word for it?") He knows it's considered crude but he can't tell if it's because it's impolite terminology or just general homophobia and he's too afraid to ask, so he just awkwardly avoids saying anything at all or just VEEEERRRY SLOWLY starts letting out the most hesitant "...f-?" until his friends cover his mouth going "no no no no, don't say that-" (Nico di Angelo voted most likely to say "Is he... yknow... [gestures vaguely]...?")

B.) Nico kind of goes deer-in-the-headlights about queer topics in HoH and I imagine that would be something that continues for a bit until he learns that he's in a safe space for it. Like anybody starts mentioning queer stuff and he just freezes up a little bit and starts awkwardly trying to read for what reaction he should be having based on everybody else while remaining polite as possible, but also he can't tell if they're being sarcastic or not so he's just trying to leave just in case someone starts being homophobic, and also he's very confused anyways because he's not caught up on the terminology. But everyone else just reads that as "oh, queer topics make Nico DEEPLY uncomfortable. Is he homophobic but like, trying to be nice about it?" (cause the majority of camp probably still thinks Nico has a crush on Annabeth and has no reason to believe he likes guys, or anyone for that matter). And then people find out he's from the 1930s and proceed to filter his behavior through that lens and just assume "Oh, it must just be him being from the 1930s" and leave it at that.

Also its just REALLY funny to me to have the dynamic of Will looking at Nico, mistakenly assuming he must just be mildly homophobic, and going "I CAN FIX HIM-" while there is Nothing To Fix he's just old, gay, closeted, and confused.

[millenniumfae]

Alastor's Whitewashing And Appropriation (Hazbin Hotel Discourse)

Now that Hazbin Hotel is entering mainstream consciousness, it's a good opportunity to bring attention towards some issues that need addressing.

Indie queer productions have an unfortunate trend of propagating racism, sexism, transphobia, ableism, etc. That's nothing new, and we all have to come to terms with it. A good way to do that? Just get the conversation going. Put the word out there that, 'hey, I have sincere complaints about ___.'

Alastor is, without a doubt, one of the most popular characters of the main cast. We can celebrate the victory of Alastor being a beloved canonical aroace character, while also criticizing his flaws.

Mainly - his race, his cultural appropriation, and his strong link towards racialized violence.

(1) Alastor is canonically mixed race Creole. His skin is medium-toned, but fanartists are sometimes drawing him as light-toned.

Although we don't know his full ethnic makeup, Alastor is canonically portrayed with a darker skintone than some fanartists choose to depict him as, whether in his current demon form, or a fanon-popularized mortal form.

'Creole' isn't a race, it's an ethnicity, and Creole people can have any array of complexions. But that doesn't excuse the trend of literally bleaching his canonical skin hue.

As many people have pointed out, it'd make a lot of sense if Alastor was specifically mixed black, thanks to his association with voodoo, and also according to Depression-era racial census of New Orleans. We know that mixed race black people can look like Pete Wentz, Vin Diesel, and Wentworth Miller. Him being relatively pale, with a pointy nose and straight hair, it wouldn't contradict a black identity.

In the show proper, there's been a wild array of lighting effects, and they also put a shallow gradient burn over the bottom half of the screen at most times, which can complicate accurate skintone shade picking. But you can clearly see that Alastor is darker than many other characters, and is more similar to characters voiced by people of color - Niffty, Vaggie, Carmilla. In fact, his skincolor value is on par with Vaggie's, just with more saturation, giving it the illusion that it's brighter.

(2) Haitian Voudo/Louisiana Voodoo is a closed and heavily marginalized practice. Cannibalism and violence have been long-standing smear campaigns made against it.

A 'closed practice' means that you need to be initiated into it, not just choose to practice it. New Orleans Voodoo has been couched in political prosecution since its inception, and continues to be marginalized. According to the historian Carolyn Morrow Long, "Voodoo, as an organized religion, had been thoroughly suppressed by the legal system, public opinion, and Christianity." Because of its association with free black people (and the country of Haiti), you can imagine the hate crimes it's faced for decades.

Some of its most infamous fearmongering included reports of human sacrifices, cannibalism, and animalistic orgies. "{...} the Westerns’ view on Vodou was proof that the “black republic ‘’ cannot claim to be civilized."

So of course, a mixed-race cannibalistic serial killer using 'evil' magic couched in floating vevè symbols can leave a bad taste in the mouth. Just because the symbols are accurate ones doesn't mean the misappropriation isn't there.

It has never been blatantly stated that Alastor is a Voodoo practitioner, or has any real history in Louisiana Voodoo, aside from in the pilot where Charlie briefly says the word 'voodoo' in reference to Alastor's magic. But the inclusion of actual vevè symbols is a solid enough connection. And it's an unfortunate one.

Compare with Disney's Princess And The Frog, where the directors made an effort to include Mama Odie as a more accurate depiction of a manbo, while the antagonist Dr. Facilier is hinted as not being able to practice real voodoo at all. There are more delicate and considerate ways to approach Alastor's association with Hollywood 'voodoo', and hopefully, we will get to see them as the show goes on.

(3) Wendigos are specifically from Algonquin folklore. Many pop culture interpretations of Wendigos are inappropriately abstracted from its cultural context.

Canonically, Alastor's demon form resembles a deer because he was mistaken for a deer by a hunter, and shot square in the forehead. We've seen him let out elk bugle sounds, and also his antlers growing in conjunction with his power. When he puts his game face on, his entire body gets spindly, his teeth grow sharper and longer, his hands turn into huge claws, and he sometimes eats his victims alive.

This, of course, is making some viewers ring comparisons to 'wendios', thanks to Alastor's large appetite and preference for human flesh.

Similar to his 'voodoo' connection, the show has never gone on record to say Alastor is supposed to be a Wendigo, or that his history and appearance was meant to invoke a Wendigo. The connection here is a bit weaker than his Hollywood voodoo, and it's mostly an audience reaction that I find questionable.

For those who don't know, a Wendigo is specifically from Algonquian folklore. a malevolent spirit who eats people and is never sated. English-speaking audiences owe their awareness of Wendigos to Stephen King, The X-Files, Supernatural, Until Dawn, and more. Very few of these depictions were respectful towards indigenous culture. Most of the time, 'wendigos' have been almost entirely divorced from its indigenous American contexts.

It's a classic example of appropriation. They take some cultural facet from a marginalized people, do minimal research, and depict it with little owe towards its creators. That's insulting no matter who you are. It's a form of violence when the culture is a persecuted one.

A character can be a skinny deer demon that eats people without trying to cash in on the whole 'wendigo' thing. This might be what Alastor is supposed to be, but the audience is using the word 'wendigo' inappropriately.

So. In one single character, we've got the whitewashing, the Voodoo and Wendigo appropriation, the anti-Blackness, and an overall racism.

It's no surprise that Alastor remains one of the most divisive characters of the show.

This would be like, if Niffty (voiced by Japanese-American Kimiko Glenn) kept being drawn as a pale woman with bulbous blue eyes, had weird radioactive atomic powers thanks to her method of death back in the '40's, and was obsessed with spearing people through their stomach with long blades. It's not super great.

So far, Hazbin Hotel's canon material has avoided many of the overtly bigoted humor and hijinks so common in adult TV, and that's something of a victory. But what's not problematic doesn't cancel out what is.

The more a reasonable criticism is circulated amongst its audience, the more driven the creative team is to pay attention.

[goongiveusnothing]

i really can't believe he did THAT for harrieween, perhaps the biggest event in harry touring calendar. the one all the fans try and get tickets for. some will spend thousands to be there for it. they hype it up like a big event. before he made it over 2 days too. this time he just did one day and all he did was that? the fans better make it about larrie or queerness because they paid for him to stand there in his jeans straining to hide his vocals behind his backing singers. i really can't believe i used to look forwards to harrieween thinking it'd be an event. he's such a fucking joke.

#GoOnGiveUsNothing.

The man is a chronic disappointment.

I've been saying for eons now, he's not a creative person! Left to his own devices, he'd be the driest most boring idol ever. I feel we are seeing him more left to his own devices too.

What tends to happen with celebrities is many become super famous, become convinced that their fame and status is because of their own incredible brilliance and talents, start insisting on taking over their creative controls, doing more song writing, speaking out more. And they get in trouble, because it turns out that was not why anyone was a fan of them to begin with. They were fans of what was created around them.

Harry is nothing without the people around him. He has no real meaningful life. He goes home and does the same thing every night. He has no meaningful interests. He has no hobbies. He doesn't read books. He doesn't care about fashion. He doesn't care about music. He doesn't study movies. He doesn't care about politics. He mostly cares about sex and doing cocaine and that's it.

So when he's left to his devices we get a dry ass nothing of a Harrieween which I suspect was some weird romantic thing he did for Olivia, that doesn't work for the rest of the crowd are all his other fans, and that's that. He doesn't even think deeper than that. What would the fans want? What kind of fun amazing show could he do? What extra songs could he add? Harry just doesn't care. His brain is not capable of taking it that far.

[anarchistettin]

I don't think it's that mysterious that MAGA / incel / hitler youth shit is so damnably interesting to young white-acculturated men. It makes more direct sense than the draw of any kind of comparable left movement in western nations.

It'd be unnatural for them to gravitate toward an ideology whose proponents regularly state that they'll never be able to be anything other than an enemy to their own hearts' true desires.

It's hard to argue that younger white men in leftist spaces don't still tend to lean toward base-level westernisms like antisemitism, sexism, racism. Voting dem didn't seem to change them categorically, in 2020.

it's a pretty rare individual of any sort that voluntarily stays where they're hated, even rarer sort that doesn't feel any pull at all toward a space where you're not only forgiven, but told that the evil shit you pulled wasn't actually evil at all, it's what God likes, or it's Natural Law or whatever other easily-sold-pap is on the lure. of course young white men resist leftist political ideas. they'll continue to! and feel like they have to. They're fuckin 14 or some shit. Hell, they're up to 20. They're 30 now!

the consequence of accepting leftist ideas is never, ever getting laid, ever. nevermind "again": EVER. They're fuckin 14 or some shit -

I mean, you can judge it or argue about it on a philosophical level, but you aren't going to convince most animals that they should actually be totally fine with never ever getting laid ever.

They aren't ace. They aren't queer. They aren't stealth-queer or foolingthemselvesbi. They're high-energy mammals with some 2.5 million years of evolved instinctive nnnnnnneeeeeeed to get laid. Logic and ethics aren't on the menu yet. Nothing else is. No amount of hating them for it will do anything but provoke those 2.5 million years of strategy. It's unfolding around us all the time.

I sure ain't saying "you gotta fuck a dude to get him on board". I'm just saying MAYBE belief in a strong biological sex-based morality is still a really bad plan all the way around.

it sucks that only people who already sorta kinda agree will ever see it but shit: the way y'all talk about the boys pretty much ensures where those boys aren't going to turn for relief from modern pressures or a feeling of having a meaningful life.

look at all those men on xitter that rush to reply to whatsherfaceshitherpants's critics, whenever possible, within seconds. On some level they believe that shatherself will have sex with them if they white knight her at a lucky juncture. They're not thinking "her politics are reprehensible, unsupportable by history or science, and she is regularly cruel to people that lack her level of power or privilege". They're thinking "a Lady that Looks Like That Will See Me Knighting, and, one day, Fuck Me". They aren't mistaken about that. They aren't fooling themselves. It's a strategy that works.

[alatismeni-theitsa]

hi! as you probably know yesterday was the pride parade in Athens and I saw some photos of people holding the Greek flag but altered so that it has the colours of the trans flag I think... i don't really know how to feel about that since it's a national symbol and I'm trying to understand why would anyone do this

You know what, I appreciate it a lot that you want to discuss this! I am just so happy when people want to understand and read between the lines and not just attack the other side. It was a thought exercise for me as well, and a mental training for a more balanced approach on the matter. I wanted to speak about the situation some time, so it's great that I have a calm and logical person urging me to do it!

On one hand, by altering the flag of their nation trans people want to show that they were always here, vital and important members as everyone else. And it's a way to see themselves inside the nation, and to show their presence in it (to show that queerness was always a part of this country, in many and different ways.)

On the other hand, each's flag symbolism is specific and the colors are important elements. You don't change colors to the LGBT+ flag because the colors (and the number of stripes ofc) are there for a reason. So changing the Greek flag can feel somewhat disrespectful even to other queer people like me. (And I am not even die-hard for the flag. I think about our flag 2 times per year and that's it xD) So, I don't disagree with their message at all but I have doubts about the execution.

I wouldn't put the lgbt+ colors on the flag or my sub lgbt+ flag(s) on another flag. I would have them side to side, though, to pass the same message! Or maybe I'd stitch them together in a way that it doesn't take the meaning off of any flag. Or just wave them together on each hand, idk xD

I don't think that it's worth getting heated about such alterations and on the national flag. We can have polite, civil disagreements about it but we shouldn't let this get in our way of what it actually matters - respecting the human rights of the lgbt+. And I am saying this because for these Greeks it's not a desecration of a flag. For them it's still the Greek flag but a bit altered just for one occasion. If it wasn't the Greek flag for them, they wouldn't have put their colors on there to show that they are part of Greece. If they didn't respect it for what it was, they wouldn't use it or its form. And aren't they Greeks? Haven't Greeks have different designs for our flag over the years? Can our flag never, in the centuries to come, change? Of course the trans flag colors aren't permanent, but they are not the first Greeks to use their own flag for empowerment. And again, they know how the Greek flag looks and have nothing against the flag, and that's why the color change only lasts for the few hours of the pride. It's merely a coat/skin for the original blue and white flag that they see as the representation of our nation.

I think both sides of the argument approach the matter a bit differently. Some people who see the flag altered believe that trans people don't respect the nation. Some trans people who hear complaints about the alteration believe the other side doesn't support trans rights and that are nationalists. But that's not how each side sees itself. (Unless they are actual extremists, but extremists are rare so let's leave them aside for now). For example, you may feel uncomfortable with the alteration because your family comes from Pontos and the ethnic identity is a crucial and fixed part of your struggle, and you can't bear to see your identity's symbol used as "a prop" for another identity and not strictly national matters. (I've had this discussion with a Pontiac in my uni and I draw from that). And truly, if your discomfort is within reason, and you have no actual problem with people different than you, I can't tell you not to feel uncomfortable about it.

It'd be great if we didn't disagree on anything but we are humans and diverse not only in sexuality and presentation, but also thought. The best we can do is extend good faith to the other side. From either side, of course. And there has to be a mutual tolerance (there's no human interaction where there isn't some tolerance in the name of harmony and peace) and the agreement to be different in our approach but still work for the common good. We all have the same goals. We all* want our country to be united, strong, and protective of her vulnerable members, after all.

(*οι "Έλληνες ΓΤΠ" και οι φίλοι τους εξαιρούνται προφανώς 🤣🤣🤣 Γιατί θέλουν απλώς να είναι στην κορυφή μιας κοινωνικής τροφικής αλυσίδας, όχι να εξελίξουν τη χώρα τους μέσω της ενδυνάμωσης διαφόρων ομάδων.)