#it's not even just anti-fandom people who say this too I sometimes see fannish people say 'analytical engagment' is a total fun killer and

[annabelle--cane]

it vexes me terribly when people posit being in a fandom and enjoying a piece of media for its themes as seperate things because like. I get into fandoms in order to talk about what I like in a work's themes? I write analysis and fic in order to further explore a work's themes? I get invested in character dynamics because I think their contrasting arcs and motivations are thematically interesting? like these are the same thing to me, I don't get how they're meant to be incompatible.

[chainofclovers]

Ted Lasso 2x8 thoughts

I am so lucky that the creators of Ted Lasso decided to make this entire show specifically for me. #blessed

If last week felt like a bit of breathing room (albeit tense, poignant, character-progressing breathing room) with distinct narrative lines, this week’s episode was a chaotic yet tightly-written swirl of pain and hope and sadness! No neat subject headers for this one, y’all. Just my brain and heart in the inadequate form of a bulleted list. It is the medium available to me at this time.

I am going to remember the moment when Ted calls Sharon and tells her his father killed himself for the rest of my life.

(I could say a bunch of stuff about his face and what he says and how he tries to hide his tears from Beard right after and how insanely much I adore this character and ahhhhhhhh but I’m just going to leave that scene there in our collective memories.)

Jamie. JAMIE. Higgins has given some great advice about love on this show, but his musings about his up-and-down relationship with his own father were not helpful in the context of Jamie’s dad, who is an abusive piece of shit. I really adore that all of the main AFC Richmond staff members are realistically a bit hit-or-miss with their advice and life philosophies (some are mostly miss this season, of course).

And I am completely in awe of the moment when Jamie punches his father. The way he just stands there after Beard kicks his dad out of the locker room. The way you can hear a pin drop. And Roy—Roy who is learning in so many areas of his life about his influence on people, learning that the things he needs aren’t necessarily the same as the things other people need—is the one to cross the room and hug him. Hold him, really, with the tenderness Ted used when he hugged Rebecca outside the gala in 1x4. God.

I’ve thought a lot about how s1 was about giving people a soft place to land. There’s always an angel there when you need one. There’s always an opportunity to be kind. If you look for someone, you find them. If you look for the good in someone, you find the good. And as everyone works through their individual journeys in s2, that can’t always be the case anymore. But there are still so many moments of angels on this show, and it’s not about chance and serendipity and fate [not that it was about that in s1] but about the effort it takes to become someone who can be there for someone else. Or who can be there for yourself. I’m so proud of Jamie for physically fighting back against his father. I’m so proud of Roy for being the one who recognized what Jamie needed.

I have every feeling in the world about how Ted is almost totally frozen both times (s1 and s2) he witnesses Jamie’s father abusing him. In s1, he was still there for Jamie after, and I have every reason to believe he’ll be there for Jamie after this incident as well, but that frozen stance HURTS. He’s in so deep with his pain about his own father that it’s like he physically cannot snap out of it to act in the moment. It seems entirely outside of his control, and it breaks my heart, because Ted wants so badly to be a good father, a good coach, a good friend, a good partner, a good patient. He’s there for people in all kinds of ways, even in his current less-than-capable state. He takes care of Sharon post-concussion and even gets her a new bike! During the disastrous match at Wembley his coaching is ineffectual and everything is chaos but he’s the last one standing on the pitch! But this really awful thing keeps happening to Jamie and Ted is just…frozen in the face of it. Like one of those nightmares where you’re running in place.

The frozen-in-place nightmare also kind of applies to the way the total separation between Ted and Rebecca feels, too. I have never for a moment doubted the writers’ intentions in setting these characters up as soulmates on parallel journeys, and I’m actually really digging (on a story level) how disconnected they are right now. It is IMPRESSIVE that their absence in each other’s lives feels like such a glaring loss, one we cannot forget even as there are so many other things happening onscreen. It is 100% not just shipper goggles making me process information about Ted while thinking about Rebecca and information about Rebecca while thinking about Ted. I know there are a lot of really angry and frustrated people in the fandom right now (both T/R shippers and T/R antis and non-shipping fans who don’t get why s2 is different from s1) and while I understand being frustrated by choices characters make, and frustrated by the feelings the show makes us feel that we just want to feel more of or less of, I continue to agree with pretty much every narrative choice happening right now.

Agreeing with the narrative like this?! This is such a unique experience for me as a viewer—to feel like I’m on a ride that is at once absolutely wild and incredibly sensible and well-crafted, and to feel simultaneously completely invested and anticipatory and speculative but also totally willing to trust where it goes. I long for Ted and Beard to really talk. I long for Ted and Rebecca to stop missing each other. I long for Roy to have a serious conversation with Ted about what’s happening with him. I long for Keeley to find a vocation, something that drives her beyond her projects. I long for so many things! But I wouldn’t long for them if this show was less good. If the show was less good, I wouldn’t have a wish list a mile long because I wouldn’t be so attuned to the details and potential lurking in every scene. THIS IS SUCH A GOOD SHOW, I CANNOT HANDLE IT, I LOVE IT SO MUCH.

(To that end, a great deal of the Ted Lasso tag and so many Twitter reactions reactions to the show feel super stressful right now and I am kind of just trying not to look?! I love this fandom so much because of the amazing conversations that happen and because of brilliant fic and because there are some awesome people I never would have encountered were it not for this show. That little bubble is wonderful and I’d stay in this fandom no matter what in order to keep experiencing those things. But fans’ catastrophic reactions to every little thing that happens, every little choice a character makes that isn’t the “perfect” choice? The takeaway that the writers—on this show of all shows—wake up in the morning ready for another day of torturing shippers rather than another day of writing a beautiful story they genuinely want to write? I do not enjoy those parts at all. I would like to opt out of those parts. I’m having such a magical experience watching this show and talking about this show and listening about this show and writing about this show with a variety of people who feel all kinds of ways. I truly wish I could somehow transfer the energy of this experience onto all the people who are hating it right now. I don’t mind at all that people are having vastly different reactions to this show and are sharing their honest feelings, including the really angry ones (I can appreciate something and disagree with it!), and I get that sometimes the language of fannish reactions is intentionally, ironically hyperbolic. But there feels like this very serious trend of people legitimately thinking writers on this show are targeting shippers and have lost respect for their characters, and I just feel like an alien from another planet when I see that stuff. I guess I just feel like people make art because they want their art to be visible to other people and to themselves, but that doesn’t typically involve specifically catering to or torturing a subset of that audience?)

I am more fascinated by Sharon Fieldstone than ever before. I have been running through every single action with her and Ted so many times. The confirmation that she’s living in club-provided housing (that could not look more different from Ted’s club-provided flat). Ted clearly noticing the many bottles. Sharon’s face while she tries to casually recycle them. (Sharon could legitimately have a more problematic relationship with alcohol than Ted does, and I find that extremely interesting and am very curious to find out what happens there.) Sharon leaving him voice notes while she’s concussed, probably because she’d been thinking about him shortly before the accident. The way Ted calls her and does all the funny voices and it’s not frustrating like all the times he uses his silliness and allusions to deflect during their prior conversations because this time, those behaviors are just a part of him showing care for another person. The way they stretch each other, and Ted is still wrong about the things he’s been wrong about, but they both grow all the same.

While it is pretty much impossible for me to imagine that this show would include an actual romantic relationship between Ted and Sharon (it would be beyond unethical even if they could write it well, and Sharon in particular is so professional and committed to her work, and it would erase so much of the powerful message about the importance of seeking therapy from a professional who is not your friend or partner, and I would totally hate it), watching this episode was the first moment I had this queasy little feeling that it’s possible that Ted could end up developing really complicated feelings about Sharon since, at this point, he’s been honest with her about things he’s hardly spoken about before and you can really form an attachment to people you feel safe with in a new way. (I mean, I’m sure Michelle knows what happened with Ted’s father, but I’m not even certain if Beard does.) He’s so broken right now, and Sharon is such a great person and so different from anyone else in his life (even though Rebecca is also different, and Beard is also different, and Roy is also different, and so on), that I could see things getting really fuzzy for him. I continue to have faith in the way the storylines on this show are handled. I’m just. Putting this here.

(In saying that, though, I also wanna make it really clear that I don’t just automatically assume anytime a new female character is introduced that they’re going to end up becoming a romantic complication. Like, Phoebe is allowed to have a teacher who is an attractive woman and AFC Richmond is allowed to have a sports psychologist who is an attractive woman and Keeley is allowed to talk to Jamie Tartt without it threatening what she has with Roy and all these people can exist as human beings without the introduction of romantic drama.)

Isaac gives every player one haircut per season, OH MY GOD. The JOY during the haircut scene. YES.

KEELEY AND REBECCA. Their text thread. The affirming video call right before Rebecca goes into the restaurant. The way Keeley sits all snuggled up against Rebecca in her office.

I was pretty thoroughly spoiled for the Sam and Rebecca plot through 2x8, and I was bracing for something far more problematic and tortured than what happens in this episode. The words I would use to describe their scenes: awkward, cute, cringy, and understandable. There are a million reasons why this relationship isn’t sustainable, but I felt completely understanding of both their choices here. This show has a lot of thesis statements, but I keep going back to the idea from 2x1 that there are people who enter your life to help you get to the next point, and I think it’s entirely possible that Sam and Rebecca will mutually be that for each other.

I find comparisons between Rupert and Rebecca super upsetting. There are absolutely meaningful things to say about the irony of ending up in a situation with an uncomfortable resemblance to certain taboo elements of an ex’s situation. But that ex is abusive and manipulative and cruel and Rebecca has exhibited NONE of those behaviors, and it makes me really sad to think that people feel that the writers on this show have betrayed Rebecca in giving her this storyline.

As always, I reserve the right to keep blathering about this show. I’ve had a headache for a couple of days, but my head is also so full of 2x8 thoughts that I couldn’t keep them in even if the circumstances for writing this were not ideal. I kind of hate that I’ve included frustrated fandom thoughts within the analysis of what I felt was an absolutely gorgeous, complicated, heartbreaking, near-perfect episode of television, but if ya can’t be a little dramatic on your own tumblr while you’re feeling raw and under the weather, where can ya?

[purge-that-urge-rhackathon]

Heya purge! I saw in one of your tags that you’d been consuming fic for around 20 years! That’s like my whole life. Mind telling us how things have changed? I’m sure places like ao3 have changed things a lot. I’m just really curious in fandom and fanfic culture! :3 x

Ao3 is a fucking godsend let me tell you. I won’t make a lot of the same points and stuff that fannish history folks have already documented (how it literally changed, and all the fic we’ve lost that isn’t backed up on floppy disk somewhere… I’d say we’ve lost an equivalent to the digital burning of alexandria honestly) but i can tell you my experience :3

I’ll stick it under a cut cuz i kind of rambled… but i had fun doing so ahahha xD sorry you unleashed the tiger from the cage xD

We all make jokes about ‘being there’ when stuff in fandom history happened, but i’ve been around since all the major purges (LOL my name is so fitting in retrospect ahahha). ff.net’s various purges (and the whole anne rice suing fanfic writers and shit… i never DID agree to their new terms of service haha), geocities sites going down, obviously the more recent shit too, but like I’ve been around even for the creations of certain, older fanfic sites too (one of the oldest slash forums for lord of the rings fics for example… I was there, Gandalf LOLOL!!… and now that i check the date on that i feel old as balls thanks anon xDDD and wow my one fic is still up there PFFFFT) but like, I come from an era where you took your floppy disk and copy/pasted shit from online (once it even loaded) for later reading, and also so you could find it again, because also before ff.net it was hard to find stuff. I’m pre-google ya’ll xD You dont UNDERSTAND the horrors of trying to find anything pre-google. Ya’ll have it so fucking good D:

There was never an abundance of content like there is today, and so you can bet your shit we were grateful as fuck for what was out there, let alone for someone with a decent command of writing and storytelling. Everyone commented on everything (once that was something even implemented… it was email lists before that, and comments sent in that way… i still have my e-mailed comments from fic readers haha), and it was (and still is, in my honest opinion because people entitled as FUCK now) one of the GREATEST faux paus you could do to be reading a fic (esp. multi-chaptered) and not comment. The indignity of not giving back a little (and it still is a little, which is why i get so damn fired up on this subject) for aaaaaaaall the words and story and everything you just read was a serious sin against fanfic writers. I still think its seriously fucked up not to comment (and again, i’ve mentioned that if you dont got the spoons, thats obviously different) but like, the entitlement that runs rampant today did not even exist back then. Yeah, you still had the assholes whose comment would literally consist only of “where’s the rest?” with ZERO actual thanks or input while expecting/thinking they deserve more (and THEN you could remove chapters or stories, cuz god giveth and damn does she taketh away xD), but it wasn’t nearly as prolific as it is today.

The commenting culture today and the backlash against writers wanting comments on their work in return for providing said free content makes me mad enough to wanna curb stomp some people. I’m a bartender, I don’t put up with shit HAHA xD But the entitlement especially now and people who act like writers are being uppity for wanting a small return on their craft are disgusting. Same type of entitlement as art thieves (we all know the type). We didn’t put up with that shit back then. People acting like little bitches wanting free stuff for literally nothing? We’d pull the whole fic. And the community would handle it and it usually turned into a teaching moment about how damn important it is to comment and just how much freaking control writers DO have over their media. We’d pull it from public view unless amends were made (whether that be a private note from someone entitled finally paying their fucking due with proper humility, or reaching a comment count when you had hundreds of people reading but not commenting). Damn i miss taking away fic xD We played hardball back then xD

That was the fucking worst and people were rightfully denied access to fic if hits didn’t coincide with comments. You could publish a chapter and then decide to remove it from view (either for editing, or hostage taking for comments…. which i miss dearly AHAHAH it forced people to learn to be proper commenters and interact with those whose media they were consuming). It’s a big part of what I miss because just like a proper community, people kept each other in check and made sure everyone played nice. You enjoyed a fic? You sure as hell let that writer know. Now though…. the entitlement drives me up the fucking absolute walls and makes me wanna put stuff behind a paywall sometimes…. everyone is lucky im lazy as shit tho AHAHAH and im usually fine after venting xD

But yeah, fanfic culture in general has shifted in a major way to constantly consume and NEVER give back, either in comments, or creating new content yourself to also add to the community (for example as i’m sure we’re all aware, like ALL the people who bitch about certain ships or ‘why ship this when you can ship THIS?’…. Like, instead of bitching that ‘WAH WAH this author doesnt WRITE the ship I LIKE why can’t they write THAT??’ people came up with the radical idea of CREATING the content they wanted to see :| And if weren’t that good of a writer/artist to do so? Well then you SUPPORTED the writers/artists you enjoyed by leaving comments on their shit OR getting a commission… Goddamn i remember when even ‘commissioning’ people was a wild concept… Ya’ll dont know ahahah xD

I do believe that this is a huge source of where Anti-shipper behavior has stemmed from; entitlement gone berserk. And public schools and shit are still largely full of my parents’ generation who were not computer-literate either in function or courtesy, so even as internet social skills are not being taught correctly (or safety; they scared the SHIT out of us back in the day and now everyone has all their shit and pictures online haha) so there’s also a huge disconnect socially which i think has impacted online fandom spaces and what is considered acceptable or not. People also turn into fucking swine when they think they’re anonymous online (and boy do they change their tune fucking quickly when you out them) and i think the whole anonymity thing is also a factor of this whole entitlement issue in fandom spaces; making demands without giving ANYTHING back. Like I’ve mentioned in the past, I don’t put up with that shit, and it’s not a coincidence I was going to work for the CIA after I just left Japan about 3yrs back (thank fuck I didn’t cuz FUUUUCK this administration) cuz people are dumb as shit and basic tracking skills to call someone out on their bullshit has been my bread and butter since i was like 12 haha. You act dishonest and entitled, and it’s gonna come back to you in some shape or form. You’re going to reap what you sow. That was the motto back then and I still believe in it today.

Hell, it has shocked the FUCK out of me the few times i’ve had people tell me ‘omg me and my friend were talking about your latest update!’ and i’m just like O_O????? because also back in the day, ‘fanfiction’ was kind of a taboo word. You never said you were into fanfic in mixed company. You more or less NEVER discussed it publicly (I’m not even talking dirty stuff, just normal, sfw fanfiction) because it primarily existed only online (for me; i’m post-fan magazines but pre-internet fanfic sites LOLOL). Hell, I got my college english professor into fanfiction. She didn’t even know what it was, let alone that something like that existed, and I had to explain it to her my first year of college kind of with a red face xD She was a writing-professor too so like, let that date the culture a bit. Like, if that was literally her major field of expertise and she didn’t know about it, that should tell you how not-mainstream fanfic was.

I’m kind of out of touch with that myself. Do kids (ya’ll are kids to me okay? xD) mention fanfiction as a reading/entertainment medium in normal conversation? Like, you could mention, without getting weird looks, ‘oh i enjoy reading fanfiction’ or (and i’m like internally gasping at the idea here) being able to say ‘yeah i enjoy writing fanfiction’? Is that a thing? I sure as hell don’t tell my peers that I write fanfic, let alone that i’m approaching 1million words for borderlands stuff alone AHAHAH It’s STILL taboo and seen as a lesser writing medium to folks my age. If you weren’t in a ‘geek’ circle (and i mean, i had friends who played D&D at lunch, and one friend who we mentioned fanfic together with) then culturally, as an art form, it wasn’t acceptable to discuss. Like, i’m STILL in that mindset that fanfic is not something to be discussed off the internet with people and it makes me very very uncomfortable to do so unless i know 100% I can speak discretely with someone. That’s what the offline culture was. I know its way different in some respects, like me and my youngest sister are 10yrs apart and her experiences with fandom are wildly different, but the idea of people actually talking about someone’s fic together with friends absolutely blows my fucking mind.

So, it’s changed in good ways too xD I just fucking HATE people who think they’re entitled to never comment or give back to the community sooooo i tend to get stuck on that issue, ESPECIALLY, again, as a writer approaching 1million words. *salute* doing my duty to the fandom community LOLOL or polluting the fandom community if you’re an anti AHAHAH antis can suck my entire ass and i’ll go on to put another million words of what they HATE into the world and they cant stop me ;3 spite is a fabulous motivator xD

The tools back then were a lot more crude, abilities and functionality was limited (but also better in some ways; moving fic to the ‘backroom’ so to speak), and even finding stuff was hard and relied on the hushed whispers of friends, but damn the community was better. So much better. So much more positive and accountability made people decent. So like, I do LOVE a lot of what we have now, but we have lost SO much. Both in terms of content and sense of community. I wish people would put more positivity into the content they’re consuming and lift up others. It’s why i try my damnedest to leave commenting tags on EVERY SINGLE THING i ever reblog here, because i *know* firsthand how much it means. To scream your art into the silence and only get the equivalent of stares back is maddening.

So yeah. Stuff has changed. Capitalism and censorship are running especially rampant hand-in-hand right now, and lord forbid we come full circle where there are no more places for us. I mean, if we have to go back to email lists, hell I’m already ready and an old veteran to that system anyhow. I’d miss all the content we all have access to…. but then there’s also that 90% commenting rate you get with that kind of system so HEEEEEY let it all fall down! bahahah xD

[supervillainarchaeologist]

My thoughts on “Loki deserved better”

This is 100% about Loki in the MCU. I know there are many incarnations of Loki within Marvel, never mind the original deity or the other fictional characters who are based on him. There’s even dogs named after him. They’re all perfectly fine Lokis but this is about the MCU one. I just wanted to make that clear so fans of the other Lokis can skip (I’m not offended.)

Also yes Loki has zig-zagged and done a little dance across the villainy line a few times and yes he killed people. I’m not here to debate whether or not I should class a (as of 2018 only sort of) villain as one of my favourite characters of all time. I’m saying this because I know there are viewers who aren’t bothered about his fate and just go on their merry way, but there’s also the ever-present belief that if you are a fan of a (emphasis: fictional) villain somehow you excuse or even endorse their crimes in real life. I’m not here to convince anyone but in my mind MCU Loki’s entire journey has been much more complex than “well, he killed people” - and I think it goes without saying that in my non-fannish very much real life, I think murder is bad. I wish I didn’t feel like I have to say this but I do…

Also please see final couple of paragraphs before assuming I hated the film. I didn’t.

Anyway. MASSIVE spoilers for Infinity War under the cut.

Well, it happened. Marvel Studios finally (apparently) killed off Loki for good. I was prepared for it happening. The lack of Tom Hiddleston in-character in the promotional material gave it away quite pointedly. But even inviting Tom for a farewell press tour didn’t soften what felt like an epic slap in the face.

I actually wouldn’t have minded him dying for good…if he’d had more time to shine in his post-Ragnarok reluctant almost (but not quite) a good guy guise. You can believe his death scene was the ultimate closure to his redemption, I can see that interpretation and there were a couple of things I liked (more on that later) but the fact it occurred even before the title card felt like another “fuck you, he’s not that important” to his fans.

Honestly? I think the writers didn’t know what to do with him (or Heimdall who was equally unceremoniously dispatched) so this was just easier. It was also that tired narrative device of making the new Big Bad seem the most awful Big Bad yet.

Look, I don’t need my hand holding Marvel. I know Thanos is horrible. He kills half the Asgardian refugees off screen and wants to wipe out half of all life in the entire universe. I’m not an idiot. However, I am bitter than you chose my guy as the sacrifice to this really over-done point. Not to mention that Loki’s nature as a reformed villain means he’ll always have anti-fans who don’t particularly want to forgive him. That’s fine, I’m not the fandom police. But it does mean that for some viewers he probably got what he deserved - not exactly the unifying emotional impact they were going after is it?

If you wanted to shock people by killing a “beloved” character in the first five minutes why would you pick someone who has a hatedom almost as big as his fandom? I don’t know if you pay attention to the Internet Marvel or Russos or whoever but Loki is pretty divisive.

On the other hand those of us who for years have wanted nothing more than Thor and Loki to reconcile and fight together for the common good are varying shades of devastated. It was too brief, it felt like such a waste.

The other huge deal for me is why did it have to be so graphic, so relentlessly brutal? For a franchise that will have many younger fans (some who will happen to like villains) they sure dragged the behind out of that scene, as though they wanted you to suffer even more. Villain or not the character will have a lot of fans who are children. Trust me, a couple of decades or so ago I was that weird kid who liked the bad guys sometimes just as much if not more so than the heroes and I would’ve been traumatised.

But what was the most galling about this isn’t the fact I had to watch a character I’ve adored for over six years choke slowly, nor is it the salt-in-the-wounds of the audible snap of his neck and the fact his eyes are WIDE open as Thor cries over his dead body again. No, it’s the fact that for all the promise of “Infinity War deaths are permanent” you just know everyone who was dusted at the end is safe. As emotional as it was to watch Peter Parker plead with Tony (and well-acted by Tom Holland) you know he’ll be back. Even Gamora and Vision have very obvious outs. No Marvel, Russos or whoever, what you clearly meant to say was “only Loki’s death is permanent” because I wouldn’t put it past you to bring back Heimdall as well before you’d ever consider Loki again.

And then there’s Thor. Poor Thor! I’ve always considered Thor and Loki a package deal in the MCU in that I want them to annoy one another forever. How has Thor not turned completely evil himself or even insane after all the universe has put him through? You would perpahs forgive him, it’s completely unjust. After his maturing in ‘Thor’ he was always the more moral of the two brothers. But no matter what a part of him still cared for his little brother. He washed his hands of Loki for quite a while of course but because Thor is overall the better person he welcomed Loki back by the end of 'Thor: Ragnarok.' All they really had was each other by the end of that film and now that touching reunion is forever tainted by sadness. For what? So we know the Big Bad who has been built up for six fucking years is the Big Bad?

Seriously, why Marvel?

I get that Loki is a problem. He was probably never meant to be this popular. He was nearly killed off before but for whatever reason the studio had a change of heart. There’s only so many fake-outs you can do, I get it. But don’t you think Loki having apparently died already twice before actually cheapens his death here? You’ve also made it quite plain that this is final with the many on the nose references to the fact he’s dead. You may as well have disrespected Loki’s actual For Real death scene even more and flashed up a caption of “REALLY DEAD” over his broken corpse.

Unlike a lot of Loki fans I have no hope nor denial to comfort me. Some are theorising he disappears for a while as Hulk unsuccessfully beats down Thanos. They also argue a master sorcerer and god of mischief would never be so dumb during the rest of the scene. Pulling a tiny wee knife on Thanos was stupid and out of character. Loki knows Thanos, he knows he’s a threat, he knows a KNIFE would never work. Also post-Avengers Loki has been all about self-preservation at all costs so to basically commit suicide, love for Thor or not, was a really un-Loki move. It doesn’t help that across all his appearances his powers and intelligence have both been whittled down to a joke. The character overall has been treated like he isn’t permitted any genuinely awesome moments that don’t end in either getting his arse kicked or worse his untimely death.

Honestly guys, your theories are nice but I’m afraid it’s simply bad writing. They wanted Loki out of the picture and picked the easiest, most pathetic way to do it.

Thank goodness Tom Hiddleston is such an expressive actor that even in two minutes he acted circles around everyone. That’s the only thing I really liked about this scene, Tom gave it his all. No surprise really since other than the fans Tom often seems to be the only person involved in the filming/writing process who still gives a shit about Loki.

I did also like Loki being defiant to the end. “You’ll never be a god” he spat as his life drained from him. I only wish he could’ve said this to Thanos much later after helping the heroes in some way. I wanted to see how Marvel would deal with at least some of the Avengers adjusting to Loki suddenly being on their side. It had so much potential and was another opportunity wasted.

“The sun will shine on us again” is lovely enough in terms of last words to Thor but it’s such a mess when I think about it too hard. It implies hope where there isn’t any. Sure, there might be hope for Thor to eventually get out of this but there’s no hope for a reunion with his brother. As I said, the film bashed your skull open in underlining the fact Loki is Definitely Dead. Why give so many fans, especially younger fans who will grieve a lot longer than I will, such hope?

Then there's the fact that whether he meant it or not (more likely not) Thor's last words to Loki are "you really are the worst brother!" because he was gagged when Loki was murdered so all Thor could do was a muffled scream.

Basically, fuck almost everything about that opening 10 minutes.

A few people will probably point out the Tom was spotted on set in his original Avengers costume filming scenes that were clearly meant to be a flashback or part of some time travel solution to the end of Infinity War. At least we’ll get to see the character one last time but that Loki won’t be the Loki we knew in 2017. He will be 2012 Loki and as much as I enjoyed his turn as the snarling unrepentant villain I don’t want to go back to that. I was enjoying the character as a chaos agent flip-flopping between reluctant ally and mega troll. Reverting to 2012 Loki also unravels any of the progress made in repairing his relationship with Thor. I don’t want that. I’d rather he not be in the film at all if it’s just going to be a token cameo of a version of Loki from six years ago.

In terms of the character being finished there’s also the possibility that Tom Hiddleston asked to be written out. He’s played the character for almost a decade of his life now. Actors do deserve to be able to move on to other projects and unfortunately for all of us, humans visibly age. He can’t get away with playing a young thousand year old god forever. But even if it was a case of the actor wanting to be released, why didn’t he deserve a better send off? Being killed in the first five minutes doesn’t really make you memorable, it makes you an extra!

Writing all this it makes it sound like I didn’t enjoy Infinity War. I did. It's a great film. It's the pay-off for anyone who has been following the build up for the last ten years. It was SUPER depressing to watch as well because even though this is comic book world, the characters don't know that. Many of the performances sold the emotion and the desperation. Regardless of the fact I think his hand in Loki's death absolutely sucks, Thanos was a great villain. But he isn't truly sympathetic either. Not like Loki. Not like Killmonger. This film tried really hard to make you both understand but still hate Thanos. I'd say it succeeded.

I'm just a little annoyed that such a great film disposed of one of my favourite characters so friverously. I'm also pissed off because it ALWAYS feels like the Thor franchise and its characters are treated like the ugly stepsisters of the MCU. After Ragnarok it felt like Thor and his remaining allies might finally get their moment in the sun. However, I suppose I should've known that this feeling was too good to last seeing as the very same film saw fit to brutally murder the Warriors Three. That was also done in a whirwind of action that barely gave you time to process what on earth just happened.

The Thor franchise deserves better and although Thor is finally getting positioned in a way that lets him (and Chris Hemsworth) do much more, that's not much comfort to his entire family, Heimdall and his three best friends who have all been written out like they didn't even matter in the end.

As all good things must come to an end, I'm not sure if I'd entirely agree "Loki deserved better" but his brother and his fans certainly did!

[gffa]

OKAY, I’m going to respond to a bunch of this and probably do a whole lot of navel-gazing, as well as work really hard not to feel guilty about kind of publicly melting down a little bit.  But @forcearama was kind enough to reframe something important for me and I realized that sometimes struggling through this stuff in a public way can be helpful, for showing that other people go through a lot of stuff and can still come out of it. Warning for a whole lot of navel-gazing and is probably only really interesting to like a handful of people, but also maybe if you’re struggling with feeling like fandom is worth it, that you feel like you’re just constantly dodging people throwing shit at you, that you recognize they have the right to dislike or like whatever they do, but sometimes it gets really hard to reconcile that with your own place in fandom, then COME SIT BY ME AND WE’LL COMMISERATE ABOUT IT.  Because it’s a hard struggle, but one that I think will help us understand ourselves better, if we use it that way. Also, like, a buttload of replies.

I’m at a difficult place in my fannish life at the moment, because I’m struggling between “I just want to hang out with my friends and talk about our stuff together and be silly and/or cry about feelings!” versus “if you want a happy place in fandom, you have to build it yourself”, which means reaching out or establishing your corner, like “hey, I wrote a bunch of Obikin fic recs if you want to check them out!” versus “once you put that out there, you have to deal with antis”. I’m struggling with recognizing that you can’t control the way other people act in fandom (nor should you!), you can’t really even stop them from trying to argue with you about stuff you’re not interested in arguing about.  You can block them, but if you’re running a public blog, you have to deal with people publicly checking it out, even if it’s to the point of creeping on your blog for a long time, so long as they’re not harassing you, you have to put your big nerd undies on and deal with it or not put yourself out there VERSUS that I am still just a single person looking to enjoy my fandom with other people who enjoy it in the same way. Which normally I’m good with!  If someone who hates something I enjoy is stalking or hate reading my blog, well, that’s their choice and I’m just going to continue on posting about the things I love. But sometimes that does get hard because we’re all human.  Sometimes I feel really Watched because I’ve established a presence on-line (it feels conceited to say that, but I think it’s true, any time you write a lot of meta about things that have a lot of both pro- and anti- fans for it), sometimes I just get exhausted by all the negativity, sometimes I get tired of how we’re arguing over made up space stories when real world political stuff is so completely horrible. Sometimes I just get really upset that we should be able to set boundaries for ourselves and that the way each person wants to interact with fandom, however they get enjoyment out of it (let’s set aside that I’m clearly not talking about spouting actual hate speech, obv.) but that’s not always respected. Sometimes I use spite as a motivation to continue on, like, “OHO YOU HATE MY JEDI HUSBAND?  LET ME TELL YOU ALL THE WAYS I LOVE HIM, ALSO HERE ARE SOME GIFS OF HIS HANDSOME FACE.” and that works great for awhile!  But there are days where it fails and what am I left with then?  An attempt to be positive that doesn’t always feel rewarded? But I guess that’s when it’s most important to continue being kind and to continue enjoying what I enjoy for itself.  And that I shouldn’t feel guilty about stumbling with this sometimes, because we all stumble and the important thing is to step back and look at ourselves and what we need to do, to weigh in our minds what’s worth it, that we need to look inwards to find the balance of what we can let go of, what we can live with, and what we need to walk away from for our own health.  We have to look at ourselves and understand what we want to accomplish as a larger goal and weigh that against how we treat each other and how we present ourselves and what’s best for us in the long term. We have to decide where the line is between being passionate about something that’s important to us, whether made up space stories or real life issues, wherever you land on the gamut, and being respectful to others, treating them in a decent way.  And learn to live with, fight back against (and how you do so), or walk away from that fandom is not going to always draw those same lines as you are going to. And I think understanding these things about myself will let me get back to being chill (look, just because I scream in caps and flail about how much I’m crying over fictional characters, that doesn’t mean I’m not chill!!!11!) and hopefully being warmer and friendlier again. This probably seems weird and out of left field, but it does all tie together in my mind, especially with the whole aspect of “So what’s the aim of this blog?” that’s been on my mind lately.  Which seems silly, I know!  But, as mentioned, I’m from the school of fandom that firmly believes, “If you want a fun corner of fandom, you’re going to have to do the work to build it yourself.”  But that comes with a lot of complications and a lot of navel-gazing to figure out how to deal with them and stumbling sometimes. So, if you’re like me, and you sometimes just get fed up, you look back on the last couple of weeks of your blog and it’s not quite what you want it to be, that’s okay.  You can take a deep breath and refocus yourself.  Or if you know who you are already and are just tired of whatever in fandom, you can also come sit by me and kvetch about it for awhile until you turn to happier things again, because I think it’s important to show that, yeah, sometimes we get into moods and that’s when we reach out and hear that other people are going through a similar feeling and you know you’re not alone. Realizing you’re not alone, that you can rise above the murk of your own feelings and the tangle that is fandom, is helpful to me.  Hearing from people who say that I’ve made them smile or been a positive person to hang out with or that they like my fic recs or that I can give them feelings is so, so kind and sweet of you.  That I can reach out and say I’m feeling like I want to just leave this goddamned hell pit of a fandom sometimes and realizing that puts you in a difficult position because what do you SAY to that?  “No, I don’t want you to leave!” is guilt tripping the person who may need to do so!  But it also puts me in the position of, “Well, if I don’t leave then it looks like I was just fishing for attention!” But I’m human.  Sometimes I’m going to talk about how I’m considering leaving, because I genuinely was, and if it was an attempt to reach out for some connections to other people, to get reminders that I’m not alone either, then maybe it wasn’t perfectly handled, but I can suck it up and sheepishly say, yeah, I fell back down that depression hole again and it makes me act that way sometimes, I’m working on not doing it so much, but it happens.  Maybe I can be an example to show others that they’re not alone in how you’re going to trip sometimes, but you can climb back out again, you can find your way to feeling it’s worth it again. And I can get some navel-gazing time out of it and this will be one more step towards understanding myself and my feelings and that’s worth it, too.  It’s something I can use to exorcise my frustration from the last week or two and remember who I want to be and what I want to do. So each and every person who reached out and listened to me, who took time out to say something kind, who simply just cared, I want you to know that you’re doing the lord’s work to help people.  And that if I can provide even a smidgen of something good to this fandom or something kind, then it’s because people exactly like you have helped me along the way. AND NOW A BUTTLOAD OF REPLIES.

@laventadorn said:

i feel you, friend; yesterday i unfollowed a long-time mutual bc they posted shipping discourse calling shippers like me “gross.” and i was like, wow, really? guess what i’m not gonna read anymore. but then i found a great discourse-free blog that posts stuff about bb8 and porgs!! so idk; this is just a commiseration comment bc people lose sight of what’s important, which is treating real people well and enjoying stuff about fake people together. (½) (2/2) and as we all know, it can be REALLY hard to hold onto your enjoyment when there’s a constant storm of garbage whirling around and maybe throwing random old fast-food containers at your head while you’re just minding your own business. when things are extra garbage-y, it becomes even harder to remember the love… but those people can just go be horrible in their corner and we’ll just do our best to ignore them, like any creepy people we meet IRL.

I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with that, too.  ):  I’m generally pretty live-and-let-live with opinions on stuff, that’s something I’ve always been able to make peace with--sometimes it’s harder than others, when something really matters to me, but I have the strong belief that people come to fandom with different viewpoints and experiences and their way is their way, my way is my way.  Which isn’t always easy to hold onto when you’re feeling bombarded by the rest of fandom. And sometimes we’re going to stumble or just feel down about it, but I think that’s when it’s most important to double down on what you want out of fandom, to continue being happy because there are going to be people like me out there who are trying to quietly get over something that’s been building for a couple of weeks and they’ll see you feeling the same way and it’ll just let all the steam out of that feeling, because, oh, hey, yeah, it’s not just me. That, in five years from now, I am going to remember this conversation far more than I’m going to remember whatever was sending me off-kilter.  I’m going to remember every silly or hilarious piece of art, I’m going to remember the fic that made me cry or squee or both.  It can be hard to build a corner for yourself that doesn’t feel intruded upon, but that’s when you just keep building it all the more, because that is what you’ll remember five years from now. (Looking back to five years ago, to ten years ago, those are indeed the things I remember.  It gets hard in the moment, so let us all reach out when we need to, talk about it when we need to, but then be like, well, okay, I feel guilty about melting down in public, so you know what?  I’M GONNA LIVEBLOG THIS HILARIOUS STORY and the people you want to enjoy something with will light up at that.  ♥)

@ kirahnanase said:

Please don’t live us!

Aww, you are very sweet, thank  you for the kind words, it does help to go, okay, shut up, brain weasels, you’re not winning today, because there ARE kind people out there!

@albaparthenicevelut said:

I feel you, I’ve been seeing a lot of kind of heightened rhetoric about shipping lately and it is Tiring. Also, some of the well… rage is a little creepy. I get to hide because I’m not a big blog so people who read my stuff are generally just people who want to read it but I do sometimes read this stuff and feel angry and put off and kind of worried.

I genuinely don’t want to judge people who are angry on tumblr, because I understand how addicting it is, as well as they may be coming from experiences that I don’t understand.  Or maybe they just honestly enjoy being the way they are or feel they have to or something else that I’ve never thought of.  But, for me, anger is something that really stole a lot from me, I was angry for so many years and it cost me so much, relationships that I’ll never fully get back, years of misery and a lack of self-understanding that I can’t undo. We can’t change other people, it’s hard to navigate the same waters as some of the more vicious and mean-spirited people, which makes it tempting to take our ball and go home.  But there are others like us, who we can just hang out in our corner and have fun with.  It may not always feel like it, but I think we are building that and welcoming new people to it whenever they want to come and have fun with us!  Maybe we can’t change as much as we’d like, but we can build our own space and that’s so very, very worthwhile, too.

@forcearama said:

OK but if you leave you have to at least tell ME where you’re going OK because I WILL BE REALLY SAD IF THEY EVER GIVE US A KENOBI MOVIE AND I HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT WITHOUT YOU.

I’m pretty sure that if I actually tried to leave, you’d physically drag me back because, look, ONE OF US has to go through the entire Obi-Wan tag every day to reblog all the gifsets and graphics of his swooshy hair and stupid handsome face, and you have kids, so you need a partner in crime.  I NOW UNDERSTAND THAT I AM NEEDED.  XD

@evaceratops said:

I really wish the block feature made it so people straight up /couldn’t/ see your posts by any means, but. :/

I really, really wish this, too!  But, to be fair, if they were truly intending to harass a person, they could just make a new blog or check it while logged out, so I’m not too fussed about how tumblr’s block feature works.  (What I’d REALLY like is to go back to the Livejournal/Dreamwidth style blogging.  *wistful*)

@super-happilydancing said:

To quote Obi-Wan “You must do what you feel is right of course”. But to quote Rey “Don’t go”. Hope that helps 🤗. Jk the second one is my selfish reasons, I love your blog. ❤️But you need to take care of yourself first and foremost. 💗💗💗

I can’t lie, it always feels good when people say, “NO DON’T GO.” even though I don’t think that’s what I was fishing for.  (I like to think that if I need that, I can say it more directly.  Idk, maybe I am backsliding, but I HAVE DONE ENOUGH NAVEL GAZING FOR ONE DAY.)  Sometimes hearing that people want to be selfish to ask you to stay can be really meaningful, especially when your stupid brain weasels are telling you that nobody likes you or wants you to be around. (I think this has a lot to do with how I’ve been kind of wound up lately, so I’m probably not as easy to talk to.  I AM GOING TO WORK ON CHILLING THE FUCK OUT AGAIN, I PROMISE.  XD  ♥)

@turnipshepherd said:

So this is genuinely not meant passive-aggressively, because you have to take care of yourself and do what’s right for you!! But I want you to know that (even though I’m not good at interacting with other tumblrs) I love your blog and it’s a bright spot in my day, and even if you decide to leave SW fandom tumblr, I will always appreciate you having been here! (I particularly love your fic recs, those are sooooo good!!)

This isn’t at all passive aggressive and I want to convey how much it means to me that you said this, especially if you feel like you’re not good at reaching out, that you’d do it anyway (as someone who has trouble with this as well) that’s incredibly touching.  That I can provide some brightness to your day is doubly so, when I’ve been feeling like I’ve been failing at that recently, so while “Thank you for the kind words!” feels inadequate, I want you to know that they are whole-heartedly meant and absorbed and make a difference.

@shadowsong26x said:

I don’t have much to add to what other people have said (basically, I will miss you if you go but absolutely do what makes you happy first and foremost), so… <3 that, basically, from my mostly-lurking corner <3

I struggle with finding the balance between, “I WANT TO LEAVE THIS GARBAGE FANDOM” venting of genuine feelings versus trying to untangle the knot of how I need to look at things to be able to stay, so I greatly appreciate the support and sweetness of your comment while I work through this!  I think, more than compliments, it’s the kindness that really makes a difference with me.  *hugs*

@annavalkyrie-blog said:

Sorry you feel that way!! I know this hell site can be icky sometimes. But I just wanted to say you’re a valued member of this community and I always love reading your thoughts on the Star War. You make me smile! If you feel like you need to leave, you’ll be missed!

This hell site is definitely icky a lot of the time!  But I just have to drag myself back up out of this depression pit I’ve fallen into and use it to examine myself again and figure out what I want.  And getting such a sweet comment, knowing that I could make you smile, that there’s such light in this fandom, really does do so much for me, thank you.  ♥ AND FINALLY, jesus, I’ve been trying to put this into words for like three hours now, I fell down a depression hole and I’ll probably need another day or so to climb out of it (the queue will keep running, though) but people reaching out when I was stumbling are the good eggs of fandom, are the kindest people that I want to keep hanging around and keep trying to add something to make your days brighter, too.  I want to be there, however I can, when any of us struggles with whatever.  And I’ll probably fall back down this hole again at some point in the future, I’ll probably have to ask for your patience again.  That’s how this brain weasels slash hell hole thing works.  But I have a thing I want to liveblog on Sunday or Monday afternoon and you can believe that I will always be lured back by how goddamned married Obi-Wan and Anakin are (and how much I want to throw Padme in there for my OT3, JUST LET ALL OF THEM BE HAPPY, I clearly haven’t cried about that enough yet ^_~) and how I want to flail with people. I’ve probably been more worked up than I realized over the last week or so, so I’m going to try to relax and work out the final kinks and be cheerful and silly to interact with again.  (Unless you need to crab about fandom then COME TELL ME because, look, I LOVE gossip and also turning that into “well, yeah, this fandom sucks, but also have you considered this hilarious thing, too?” when we’re ready for it.)

[gleekto]

I have to say, it's kinda of makes me sad how people are always like "Chris is done with glee/klaine" bc he has said many many times that he is grateful for it. He literally always said (even during s6) that he thought of Klaine as a modern day Lucy and Rick aka his favorite all time couple. I don't judge him for thinking it was a bit early for klaine to have a child bc Chris himself is just a bit more older than Kurt and has no kids and for what he said, has no plans for it any time soon.

continuing… And it always feels like he is scared that the fans will think we all should be married with a child by 24.

Gleekto says:

Oh anon - I’m afraid I will likely make you sad too then (so ignore me! Here is a cut so you don’t have to read ha ha).

Both Darren and Chris (and me and many many others) clearly thought it was ridiculous for klaine to get married so quickly and young. In the end, that doesn’t matter much for the success of the love story. Glee was a fantastical universe where lots of not believable things happened but there was an emotional realism to it that resonated. There have been many other fictional universes in which things were a bit extreme (don’t those highschool sweethearts on Boy Meets World marry super young too?) - No one is rushing to marry because of a fictional couple. There is no lesson in it. The message really is here - gay kids, you get a happy ending too. And Chris must realize that on a level. I note, for example, that Chris isn’t concerned that kids will think it’s a good idea to trust an internet date who presents themselves as 30 when they are actually 60, and then decide that hey it’s okay to date them even if they are 35 years older than me and completely lied…(to be clear, I’m not worried about that either - it was Glee being extreme (arguably stupidly) but like, who cares? The biggest consequence is that it’s hard to take seriously)

The easiest comparison for me is with Darren who was also part of klaine, also thought marriage at 21 was a bad idea, and frankly, I bet also hasn’t thought boo about where Blaine or klaine is at now unless asked in an interview (and even then gives silly answers), and who frankly, also didn’t quite get the ultimate storyline that he might have wanted Blaine to have. Despite that, I feel like Darren was/still is happy to have been a part of the couple that did break ground in the TV world, that garnered so much love and passion, and supported a cause he cares deeply about. He was happy to go along for the (sometimes ridiculous) ride, and I don’t know how better to describe it than - as a fan, you get the impression that Darren feels happy about klaine and the impact the show had.

Chris - I think was done with it. I don’t think he hated klaine. And I think he thought - to quote him - they were “the sweetest and most romantic couple on the show” (New Yorker interview season 3) in those initial years. I think he ultimately did not like being part of a TV power couple and the rabid fannishness that came with it - including people threatening themselves over klaine (he talked about this around the time of the break up), and the tinhatting etc…It felt like Chris had a hard time separating this stuff out from the positive stuff - which again, fair enough. It’s his experience.

After about mid season 4, he stopped doing interviews about it really, and when required to (and I feel pretty sure that he was required to do that klaine interview with Darren at the end of the series) - he had safe stock answers that were true without upsetting anyone - Lucy and Ricky being one (And I think that’s true because of a bit of the banter-y dynamic between Kurt and Blaine - which was a fun aspect). He did not thank Darren or respond to Darren’s thanks (on several media) or say anything about it at all at the end of show unless asked directly, except his stock line about klaine NOT being groundbreaking, but the reaction to them being groundbreaking (I find this line dismissive of fans as well as not really making sense…if the reaction is groundbreaking, the characters are because they resonated…but I digress).

Also - and given that he has said (somewhat surprisingly) that writing STFF was his favorite to write of all his books - he clearly had a pretty significant rift with Ryan Murphy. We’ll never know exactly what happened but the vibes he gives off about RM are hard to miss, and the book is full of anti-showrunner meta (the book is definitely extreme/cartoony - but I take it as him venting for sure). And I’ve said several times that we have no idea what the emotional impact of Cory’s death was on the cast and the whole vibe of the bts of the show really. He was done with Glee and the baggage it came with.

So yeah, I’m one of those people. I feel sad or frustrated almost every time Chris says something about klaine and sometimes glee generally. I’m frustrated that fandom was what it was (and I don’t think the fandom was that unusual - But Chris was just 19 at the outset of social media and he had no idea, fair enough. And I get that the tinhatting drove him bonkers. It drives me bonkers and I’m not him!) and sad that Chris doesn’t see what I (and so many others - not just fandom people - but tons of entertainment media etc…) did and do from that show and klaine specifically…But he is entitled to his feelings. And we can agree to disagree.

[phosphorescent-naidheachd]

_____ said:

on one level i will always enjoy watching a cool lady ride jon's face or w/e so i am not anti-dany getting some of the old King In The North. otoh - the whole epic meet cute destined thing is too grand for me. it's like an archetype? i prefer how rooted and grounded and layered jon/sansa is as a ship - everything has resonance and a kind of unexpected joy, like Persuasion, where neither person thought they could repair the past and find happiness and yet happiness is there for them. it's just more my jam. i hope jonsa shippers have enough to work with for fic purposes after the show ends

another thing - i wish dany could have a male family member who doesn't want to bang her, especially given that monster of a brother she had... jon is a wonderful family member. i wish they could have been that to each other 

^^^

I’m not inherently against J0n3rys -- written as an epic ‘our fates were written in the stars long before our birth’ archetypical relationship or not -- as long as it’s executed in such a fashion that feels true to the characters and that resonates emotionally with me... but I highly doubt D&D are going to manage to do that. I have approximately 0.12% trust in them as writers/directors and that’s a generous estimate. Add in the fact that D&D have a fairly limited amount of screen time to build a J0n3rys relationship up from nothing, and the chances of D&D sacrificing true character/relationship development on the altar of expediency rise considerably... as do the chances for an increased amount of ‘telling’ rather than ‘showing’. Just my opinion, though.

GRRM isn’t perfect, but -- partially because of the medium, partially due to his own skills -- his writing of the J0n3rys relationship will doubtless be a lot more nuanced and believable when the characters finally meet in the books.

Actually, one thing that’s really neat about Jon’s relationship with Dany (and with Sansa, among a few other characters!) is all of the narrative parallels and contrasts drawn between their individual experiences. I recently read a piece that argued that GRRM isn’t just deconstructing fantasy tropes with ASOIAF, he’s also very much reconstructing them -- “not tearing the genre apart so much as reminding readers of why it was worth falling in love with in the first place” -- and that really struck me. I like to think that if J0n3rys does end up being endgame in the books, GRRM will use his particular “existential brand of romanticism” to make that archetype feel fresh and real and worthwhile.

Ughhh, I feel you there. Dany deserves kind, platonic, supportive family members. Like Jon, she’s always had a strong longing for a home and family and belonging, and Jon (and through him, perhaps some of the other Starks too) could really fill that role well under the right circumstances. Which isn’t to say that he couldn’t still fill that familial role in a romantic/sexual capacity, but it’s not quite the same thing, y’know? As you said, Dany has never really had someone love her who doesn’t want to bang her (maybe Missandei, but I always thought there was a faintly femslashy subtext between the two of them on the show), and I think it would be good for her to have that kind of relationship in her life.

My feelings re: show!J0n3rys are a lot more complicated than my feelings re: book!J0n3rys, mainly because my feelings re: show!Dany herself are very conflicted. I think most of the criticisms leveled at Dany by the fandom contain validity, but I also think that most of those criticisms are also strongly influenced by fandom’s sexism/misogyny and its attendant double standards. I think that Dany -- both in the books and on the show -- is a very complex character, and frankly I don’t think D&D really get that; I think they see her purely as The Once Underdog, Now Conquering Heroine(TM), and that the GOT narrative is going to reflect this sadly limited viewpoint.

I have a lot of sympathy for Dany’s position and understand why she acts as she does; her traumatic past and the culture(s) in which she was brought up have absolutely shaped who she is today: her fears, her desires, and her methods of achieving those desires. I would also argue that although show!Dany is pretty self-centered, she generally has good intentions. Nonetheless, I’ve become less and less a fan of show!Dany over the years. I have issues with some of the choices she’s made, with her frequent (albeit unintentional on her part) hypocrisy, and with the racist undertones both GRRM and D&D have (accidentally?) inserted into some of her major story arcs (indeed, to the point where I have a hard time mentally separating her from said arcs). If Dany undergoes further character growth that positively alters how she acts going forward, my feelings towards her may change again, but in the meantime… I don’t know. As I said: it’s complicated, and my thoughts about her sometimes even vary from episode to episode. (Heaven knows my thoughts & feelings re: Tyrion and Jaime often shift depending on the episode lol. But that’s a topic for another time.)

I don’t want to see Dany humiliated and humbled, the way many antis do, but I also don’t want to see her as she currently is on the Iron Throne, the way most stans do. I don’t believe she’s insane or currently in danger of becoming insane, as many antis think, nor do I believe that she’s an unusually cruel/terrible/[insert negative term here] ruler and warrior for the society in which she lives. However, none of this makes her inherently the best person to rule Westeros, either. 

Although it isn’t entirely Dany’s fault, she knows almost nothing about Westeros -- past or present -- and what little she does know was understandably given to her through a pretty pro-Targaryen lens; this lack of understanding of facts -- and more crucially, of attitudes -- will serve her (and more importantly Westeros) very poorly if she ever becomes Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. Yes, having Westerosi advisors can help, but only so much. The monarchy of Westeros doesn’t seem to have much in the way of checks and balances, after all, outside of ‘it’s probably not a good idea to offend any of the major Houses too badly and definitely not multiple Houses at the same time’. Dany is still relatively inexperienced at ruling and is certainly more than capable of learning and improving... the question is whether she’ll allow herself to. Especially now that she has the ultimate power in the form of fully-grown dragons, which makes it even more difficult and dangerous to question or challenge her actions than it would a dragonless monarch like Robert Baratheon.

(Although, since we’re mentioning Robert Baratheon... I get the sense that Dany, like Robert, much prefers the fighting and ceremonial parts of being monarch over the day-to-day administrative parts. YMMV.)

It’s my opinion that Dany has gotten increasingly good at convincing herself that her personal desires are actually selfless and/or inevitable, that her way is the Right Way, that too much compromise is weakness, and that an increased volume and degree of violence on her part is both justified and necessary. This is an excellent piece of meta on the subject; although it’s about book!Dany, it’s still by and large applicable to show!Dany too... in fact, I would argue that in many ways, it’s even more applicable to show!Dany. Dany isn’t the only “good” character in ASOIAF/GOT to harden herself to violence or to make some of these sorts of mistakes, of course -- Jon probably would have been an even bigger disaster if he’d somehow wound up as the ruler of Meereen, for instance -- but that doesn’t remove the validity of these criticisms towards her, either.

Actually, speaking of Jon and Dany, there’s one argument that antis make that really bugs me: that Jon was chosen by his people, while Dany chose herself; meritocratic monarchy vs. hereditary monarchy, if you will. It’s not entirely wrong, but it’s not the full story either. Davos falls prey to this same trap when talking to Dany on Dragonstone, in fact: "He's not King in the North because of his birthright, he has no birthright, he's a damn bastard. He's King in the North because those hard sons of bitches believe in him."

I mean, yes, Jon was chosen by his nobles to be their king, and they do believe in him, but you can’t act like his heredity didn’t play a significant role in that decision. If Jon hadn’t been the ostensible son of Ned Stark, do you really think all the nobles of the North would have called for him to be King, no matter how worthy he was or how much they believed in him? Just look at part of Lyanna Mormont’s speech, for crying out loud [italics my own]: “I don’t care if he’s a bastard. Ned Stark’s blood runs through his veins. He’s my king, from this day until his last day!” *rolls eyes* But I digress. 

Moving on to address your comments on Jon/Sansa:

Unlike many J0nsa shippers here on tumblr, I don’t think J0nsa is ever going to be canon. Definitely not on the show, and probably not in the books either. And I’m mainly OK with that; that’s what fanfiction is for, after all. (Which isn’t to say I wouldn’t be delighted to be proved wrong re: canon lol.) 

I’m very much a multi-shipper in GOT/ASOIAF, and my main fannish wish is that my favorite characters survive to the end of the series. Ideally, none of them irrevocably betray other characters I care about and they all survive and they’re all at least marginally happy, but that’s probably way too much to ask. As I said, I’ll take ‘alive’. Because as long as they’re still alive, a happier ending is still a possibility somewhere ‘off-screen’ after the series ends. Dead, on the other hand, is dead. Sure, I can create AU ‘so-and-so-lives’ headcanons, but I’m still acutely aware that they’re AUs, y’know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yessss, Persuasion is such a great comparison! There’s something very bittersweet and healing about that kind of ship. Shades of a shared past paired with hope for a better shared present and future. The gradual realization that it isn’t too late to find/create happiness. idk, I just have a lot of feelings about this dynamic.

[not-poignant]

Hi! I think your fandom discourse is usually very well thought out and articulate, so I have a question for you: in your opinion, where should the line between representation and fetishization be drawn in fiction, fannish and otherwise?

I started to answer this, and then deleted it all, lol, which was like 600 words.

So now I’ll start with the basic preface: I can only really talk about areas of representation and fetishisation that I know about, that I write about, that I read about: BDSM, noncon-dubcon, relationships, and so on. I’m not going to touch anything else. I’m not going to talk about straight women fetishising gay dudes in this post, since that’s not what you asked me about, lol, and I’m not a straight woman. And because as far as I’m concerned, this is like...something you could write several books on and still not be done.

Also, I firmly believe I can’t draw a line for anyone except myself. I think it’s folly to do otherwise. Everything everyone does - no matter how sanitised or ‘unproblematic’ they think it is, will cross a line, for someone, somewhere. In a pretty big way. So I do not actually even believe in the premise of the question, that a line can be drawn. I wouldn’t even try to draw it for other people. I know where my line is. I have questioned that line, it has sometimes shifted a bit, I have thought about what it means, I have thought about the subjects I write, I know it’s not unproblematic material, and I’m comfortable with where my line is.

I think anyone who tries to draw a firm line for others - and I mean, like ‘everyone else’ others, is foolish, imho.

Now, onto my thoughts in general about representation vs. fetishisation.

I don’t think authors are obliged to write accurate BDSM if they want to write fantasy eroticised BDSM - I do think they’re obliged to be honest and frank that they’re not writing reality, if asked or challenged (or better yet, tag it so that people know it’s not realistic). But I’ve always been anti-banning-content and pro-tagging/warning systems. I’ve been that way since I did my BA in Media and specialised in censorship and media banning systems. Did you know Australia used to have the most censored media in the ‘western’ world? It still, on a lot of levels, does. Do you know how many movies, video games, and more, are literally banned here, even though you can access them almost all throughout Europe, America and more? Like, it’s bad, folks. Books have been written about how fucked up it is. And how do you get on that road?

I ended up with really strong political thoughts on this subject of what should and should not be allowed in the media on account of growing up studying media in a country that is really ‘nanny state’ over its media.

And seeing the ‘nanny state’ culture developing amongst fandom/s is honestly alarming.

But anyway, I can only really talk about what I do fetishise - which is dubcon/noncon/power play/BDSM (for the most part). Sometimes I care about accurate representation, sometimes I don’t. Sometimes I care about accurate consent, sometimes I don’t. Sometimes I care about accurate trauma recovery, sometimes I don’t. I will happily, gleefully suspend my disbelief for the worst most inaccurate trauma recovery ever if the whump is good and the hurt/comfort is real.

I will say I really strongly disagree with the increasing censorship/disapproval of people writing fantasy relationships and sex scenes vs. ‘realistic representations of relationships and sex scenes.’ That’s what non-fiction is for. And it’s what certain subsets of fiction is for, and it’s absolutely not what all of fiction is for. And I think we’re in a real sort of...horrific nanny culture if this is what it’s come to. Like, guess how much I care that some yaoi has self-lubricating asses? I don’t care. I don’t sit there thinking ‘oh no, this isn’t an accurate educational treatise into anal sex.’ You know what? Even fics that think they’re realistic aren’t, if they’re not dealing with the regular enemas/douching that a lot of people who have anal go through or alternatively not dealing with the realism of poop/faeces for all the people who can’t be assed with enemas/douching and don’t actually care about that.

I’ve seen authors doxxed and called out on Tumblr for not writing accurate BDSM in fanfiction. Like, inaccurate callouts where people go ‘oh no, but they didn’t use safewords, so this person is awful and don’t read their fanfiction and if I see you reblog anything from this person I’ll block/blacklist you too.’ Did you know contextually, in say, the BDSM San Francisco gay world of male sex - safewords (or SSC) is actually not as popular as RACK? (Risk Aware Consensual Kink). Did you know that RACK pretty often doesn’t have safewords, and sometimes you look pretty naive suggesting that all ‘good’ BDSM needs them? I mean it depends on your bubble, of course. But realism and representation trends like a meme in fandom, it’s not actually about accuracy a lot of the time at all.

The problem with arguments on realistic representation is that most people are like...very much in their bubbles where they think ‘accurate representation of BDSM is always safewords’ which is honestly, a good thing to aspire to if you’re a total newbie (which most writers of fanfiction are lol), but it’s only one way of doing things and some people - people with decades of experience in the scene - think it’s utter bullshit. Trust me, you can fuck people up well and proper even if you’ve got safewords. They aren’t some ‘things won’t go wrong / I won’t damage you psychologically’ magic bullet.

So, like, here’s me as a writer of what I write, and I’ve seen fellow authors doxxed for writing BDSM without safewords. I have a problem with that. That’s not okay. It’s fiction. I’m not writing for a bunch of school kids. I’m not writing a plain language FAQ for a local health centre. I’m writing literally masturbatory material (sometimes anyway) for adults who are getting off to fantasy BDSM. I love titillating non-consent depending on how it’s written. I’ve written it. I’m frank about that. I’m allowed to love it. So are other people. There’s no rule or law I’m breaking by engaging my Id in fantasy. And trust me, if you try and hide from your Id, or censor it, or ban it from certain content that it wants to engage in, that tends not to end very well.

But what I write is so vastly disrespectful and gross to some others that I know I’m hated. I literally once got the message ‘I hate you’ over 200 times from a single person (who later owned up to it) on anon, because they hated the relationship I wrote between Pitch and Jack in SAL. Because it had power exchange and BDSM. It’s like one of the tamest things I’ve written just about.

Like, obviously, I crossed their line. Big time. And they felt entitled enough to me and my writing to tell me they hated me over a period of several months. This is where I think ‘MKINYKATO’ - My Kink is Not Your Kink and That’s Okay is something we really need to keep in mind. Some people’s kinks are realistic representations of things, some people’s kinks aren’t, and some - like mine - are a mix. It’s not always vs. or ‘one vs. the other.’ Just because I will deliberately search for rapefics (all kinds) doesn’t mean I’ll turn my nose up at realistic rape recovery written with gravitas and pathos.

But see, this is where the issue of a ‘line’ is such a huge, huge grey area. Everyone’s line is personal. You can’t homogenise or standardise the line, because it’s different for everyone, and because that damages people. Like, that is a thing that literally damages people.

Meanwhile, my fiction doesn’t have to damage people, because I tag it responsibly and will add tags as people find necessary. I don’t shove it into anyone else’s space. I actively encourage people to not read if they don’t feel safe, and celebrate people who stop reading or engage in self care when they need to.

But strangers coming into my space, into my ask-box and telling me they hate me as a human being for writing the Shadows and Light story simply because there was power exchange in their dynamic? Anyone who knows me or knows what I went through during that time, knows how much that damaged me.

I mean I’ve seen the side of this that came through the Hydra Trash Party and BBC Sherlock and other areas, and so over the years I’ve seen some amazing thinkpieces written on this subject (that particularly focus on morally grey areas of consent in fiction, which is generally where I hang out as an author and as a reader to an extent) that has now been reinvented as ‘representation vs. fetishisation’ which is just a new way of attacking other people’s kinks and trying to sanitise fiction.

So I’m going to link them here, because I don’t think I can really convey just how frustrating I find that this is still such a huge deal on Tumblr, after 20 years of being in fandom and seeing people’s lives destroyed because of it (I can’t be rational about this subject, but other people can be, and sometimes with sources, so you know here you go):

- Yes, you’re allowed. 

“Honestly, I think “yes, you are allowed” is something a lot of fandom needs to hear right now. We had, what, a decade of “what not to do” writing advice, starting with anti-Mary-Sue campaigns and on through sporking and fanficrants and RaceFail, and now everything is this cracked parody of social justice and ~this is problematic~ is the ultimate “what not to do.”“

- Fiction is separate from reality.

“Fiction is separate from reality and that is why we like it. What you write about is not what you condone, Stephen King is not serial killer for writing about murder. People are not being “abuse apologists” for shipping two characters in a less than healthy way.”

- On purity culture toxicity (I strongly believe representation vs. fetishisation is the new label to slap on this latest reiteration of fandom wank). - Scroll down for some incredible sources.

- Anecdote about how purity wank allowed someone to realise how much unrealistic/fetishised fantasy helped them.

“Kinky unrealistic BDSM AUs were a way for me to process actual physical abuse that happened to me. I don’t care if the writer was getting off or processing something of their own: the works were there for me and they helped. For every “THIS IS ABUSIVE!!!” person pointing fingers, I guarantee there are people who were helped by that.“

- How fandom focuses on shaming women over accurate representation, and inherent misogyny within.

“And these people, these moral guardians, they’ve gotten really good at couching their fundamentalist views in progressive language. They don’t say ‘you’re to blame if you provoke men to rape’ - they say ‘your fic normalises sexual violence and contributes to rape culture’. They don’t say ‘women ought to be chaste’ - they say ‘your fantasies are socially harmful and you owe it to the world to be more self-critical’. The messages are the same and the desired outcomes are literally identical.”

- Yes, you’re allowed - the extended version.

“Right now I’m kind of bored because recently a majority of the fics that I read are very prim and proper, with disclaimers that are kilometers-long if the fics ever venture into something even remotely shady morally speaking, and I have a marked preference for fics that explore stuff that’s not Healthy or Sane or even Consensual, because to me fandom and fanfics are this big laboratory that really should allow you to delve into the unconventional and the morally grey”

*

Finally, do I think this means that the subject shouldn’t be talked about? No, I don’t. Do I think this is a huge topic that warrants years of exploration? Which it’s easily had for over two decades in fandom all over the world? Yes, I do. I just think the majority of people wanking over it on Tumblr are generally doing so to condemn other people rather than reach any sort of understanding or greater ethical awareness or whatever. I’ve actually already seen the representation vs. fetishisation discourse around the place and it’s almost always been co-opted by the Antis and similar, and hurriedly taken into purity wank town where the quest to be Ideologically Pure (TM) includes making sure no one has ever fetishised anything ever, and certainly never put it anywhere publicly for anyone else to enjoy it.

So yeah, I guess I have some strong thoughts in my little area of the world. Certainly enough thoughts to know that a line is pointless, beyond my personal line, that I police by reading the tags and browsing carefully with that wonderful thing known as Self-Responsibility.

[mild-lunacy]

My fannish feelings (let me show you them)

Man, fandom really alienates me in 28846851 ways, as I often say. And it's funny 'cause I really admire it. I admire the transformative nature of fandom... from afar. But comparing Johnlock to transformative ships like Harry/Draco or Sherlock/anyone else (hah!) or saying we're 'free to engage however we wish' misses the point. Personally, I know I'm free, but then I always felt free. Canon always feels like home, not a prison, no matter what happens. I just don't want to 'break free', unlike Moriarty. Like, I understand that people write these things because others or they themselves are really upset and/or looking for something to cling to or believe in in a cold, hard universe or what have you. You gotta find your comfort where you can. But that's why I said fandom frequently alienates me-- conspiracies, fake-out episode theories and even fanfiction in general has never been even close to 'enough'. It just... doesn't help. It doesn't work at all, haha. I understand why people react the way they do, but sometimes I think I have an innately different idea of what fanfiction is for.

It's true that Series 4 didn't fulfill all my hopes and wishes, and obviously I was wrong about the direction of the Authorial Intent, and I still think that's a crying shame even though I understand the limitations of thinking about that in the context of textual interpretation. But like I said in that meta yesterday, issues of intent have to do with the social aspects of fandom, not fanfiction (obviously). But of course, turning to fanworks to fix or somehow escape canon (whether it's speculative meta or fanfic) is part of the fundamental nature of fandom. I just... don't do that. At all. And I've never particularly enjoyed fanworks that willfully refused to follow canon in any obvious way instead of integrating (because that tends to read as OOC to me). Just for example, I may not be crazy excited about something like Sherlock/Mycroft, which is clearly acanonical, but normally it genuinely doesn't bother me. But if I see a ship like that combined with Johnlock so that it replaces it, where Sherlock chooses Mycroft over John, then I get pissed. And it's not because I'm a shipper (or not just) but because it's so blatantly not only OOC but transformative in a way that's anti-canon. Like, you really cannot sell that after the scene in TFP where Sherlock seriously considered shooting Mycroft, and in fact, it's clear that this writer didn't want to consider it. They were disregarding canon reality and substituting their own, and that sort of thing drives me batty with fic. You can always tell when the fic is going out of its way to misread the characters and/or rebelling against canon, and it never once worked for me in all my years of reading oodles of fanfic. I was never even tempted by 'Epilogue What Epilogue' fics in HP (needless to say, breaking up Harry's marriage held even less appeal). So yeah, I definitely can't look forward to years of doing that post-S4, haha. Not that... I think I'd have to, 'cause the door to Johnlock is wide open after TFP (and unfortunately, so is the door to other ships.... And hell yeah, that's pretty unfortunate, seeing as the very existence of straight!Sherlock seems like an abomination to me, honestly).

My reasoning for why explicitly canon Johnlock was definitely important and necessary goes like this: 1) it's the natural conclusion to Sherlock's arc and the emotional resolution to unresolved developments in Series 3, beginning in TRF; 2) representation and avoiding queerbaiting. But there's definitely also 3) cutting off straight-washing of Sherlock and John in the fandom and vindicating/establishing our understanding of his characterization as canon. I don't apologize for that. I still firmly stand for that. Straight or bisexual Sherlock is not something I calmly accept in the context of his BBC incarnation, not least because it's ridiculous and OOC, and you have to do some serious mental gymnastics to justify it canonically. But I also honestly simply find it harmful in the context of fandom as well as being queerbaiting in canon.

Obviously, I mean, fandom has but a fraction of the social power and cultural resonance that the hugely popular media property of BBC Sherlock does. But heteronormativity is always problematic and it's not more present in the media than in fandom in the sense that it's present everywhere equally, by its very nature. Obviously, we fight against it more here, so there's clearly less of it here in one sense, but heteronormativity always remains something to push back against with the intent to eradicate. And in the context of the canon characterization of BBC Sherlock, even reading Sherlock as bisexual (as in, displaying actual or potential attraction to women) is quite blatantly, extremely heteronormative, and so it's pretty distasteful to me. I do think it's that obvious that he's gay, yes. And so... a future of endless fanworks at this point is definitely a very mixed blessing.

No. Nope. Uh-uh. I didn't think that, and I didn't ignore or avoid willfully. I side-stepped and tried to build on canon while trying to integrate every bit of characterization possible. And further, I only started new Harry/Draco fanfic before Harry got together with Ginny permanently. He was together with Ginny at first in some of my fics, but I made up the characterization so it would fit; when I saw that he genuinely wanted her, I just wanted him to be happy (and I guess when I did take him away from her, it wasn't a happy story). Even before, I never wrote him as gay or tried to ignore his interest in Ginny (I just kind of wrote speculative Ginny characterization sometimes that took her down alternative paths... but I didn't think it was OOC at the time). The fact that people ignored or avoided canon and embraced OOCness to write an admittedly transformative slash ship used to drive me insane with constant, neverending frustration back when I was in HP fandom. It's also something that bothers me about the way people write Kavinsky in The Raven Cycle, too. People mess with characterization and the entirety of apparent canonical intent to write the stuff canon left unexplored on purpose, which is understandable... but not necessary.

I used to write lots of meta back in the day about how, you know, you can build on canon and do anything-- certainly, you can write redemption arcs and stuff-- if you're careful about starting where the characters really are. It's not like I was ever obsessed with JKR's intent regarding Draco Malfoy, but then neither did I ignore it, see. She said stuff to the effect of him being a 'little cockroach', as Hermione might say, and she warned about young women denying or ignoring that, but I didn't deny or ignore it! I thought that was important. He was a little prick in my fics, and I tried to work with that. I did my absolute best not to romanticize him and I constantly wrote metas imploring others not to, more or less; I wanted to let him grow up and develop, not deny he needs the development. This was not because JKR told me not to, of course. At the same time, I genuinely believe that if you read the text closely enough, you'll come pretty close to the perspective of the author anyway, given it's a good author and given you're not the sort of reader that has an agenda. And as for myself... I don't have an agenda, man.

I guess that could be hard to believe, if you thought of me only as a TJLCer (not that I'm aware of anyone doing that). I mean, people have certainly had a tendency of accusing us of projecting onto the text, though the aphorism about stones and glass houses definitely applies. But anyway, obviously I've never seen canon Johnlock as wish-fulfillment, and I get pretty incensed when I think people misunderstood that, not that it wasn't a wish to be fulfilled. Not only did I wish, I still fully and firmly believe it should have happened explicitly, even if I'm starting to understand where the misconceptions we had about Mofftiss were. Anyway, it's not that I don't see myself in the story or identify with characters. I just... don't really project. That's the source of my alienation, I think. I don't see a show or read a book I like, that's remotely internally consistent, and think, 'I know these characters better and I and/or fandom could have done better', the way so many people in fandom have done after Series 4 of Sherlock or the last book in The Raven Cycle. I mean, I get disappointed, but it's really been weird seeing people's issues with The Raven King. It's more understandable with Series 4 'cause they did drop an apparent arc, in the sense that they didn't actually fulfill it except by implication. That's not really what happened in TRK; all the arcs were completed, but many people complained about the stuff that was left out or not focused on that they wished would have been. That's really weird and unnatural to me, possibly 'cause I just really believe in the importance of reigning in self-indulgence.

Basically, the whole problem with TFP was essentially self-indulgence! Calling for more of it, or even critiquing Series 4 for essentially not having more of the right kind (and even accusing TJLCers of only wanting that and nothing else!) is hard for me to relate to. Alas, as usual.