#its like related but still disconnected which dont make the thing inherently romantic

[pawterpillart]

Platonic, queerplatonic or romantic vee?

The struggle is real.

[blackwoolncrown]

Do ppl consider there are 2 forms of asexuality? Literally asking.

Before anyone gets their blood pressure up, I am functionally ace myself.

I ask bc like, outside of inclusion discourse and the LGBT sphere asexuality is also something that happens as a result of mental illness or certain diseases.

And I really want this talked out but like:

Okay so anyone who feels no sexual desire/attraction is ace, right?

That includes the person that’s ace because of meds. That includes the person that’s ace because of depression. That includes the person that’s ace because no reason at all they just feel that way. That includes the person that’s ace because, come to find out, they have a disconnect w sexual attraction bc of internalized homophobia. That includes the person that’s ace as part of their trans identity. 

They’re all ace, right? Bc if they feel they are and they say they are, and also in certain situations medical/therapeutic professionals say they are. Like no one’s arguing they aren’t, that’d be unreasonable.

But if that’s all ONE type of asexuality, then how are ALL of those identities LGBTQ? 

I don’t care what happens in the end in terms of inclusivity bc I’m actually personally opposed to ID groups to a certain extent. I feel that a protective community is necessary first and foremost for those who struggle with isolation and violence. I also feel that ultimately you can’t and shouldn’t oppose ppls self expression too much bc they’ll spend all their energy on fighting the opposition and not actually attain the discovery the expression is about.

That being said, my question is this: Are all aces equally ace in the sense that the ace-LGBT community IDs? Are ppl in this community aware of the broader medical/psychological conditions and common transience of the condition? Is that taken into account or ignored? Because unlike being gay, lesbian or trans, being ace is experienced by people in ways that aren’t an ‘identity’ and is felt as more of a condition. And making this normal, too, I think is important and why Ace visibility and normalization is important.

But is there no ground for understanding that there are some fundamental differences here? If all Aces are the same kind of ID Ace, and they are all supposed to be accepted AS LGBT does that extend to people who are ace not-in-conjunction with other sexuality-IDs?

The most compelling argument for ace inclusion in the LGBTQ community is the fact that for many reasons, may LGBTQ ppl ID as, end up, or spend time being Ace. But many people who aren’t LGBTQ and don’t feel particularly related to the group are also Ace? Just not in a way they’ve been trained to champion as an ID issue. This is more common with older adults. 

I feel like at the very least it should be understood that if someone is ace-LGBT then that’s cool but I don’t think- and this is because the logic just doesn’t shake out to me, it’s not on principal- that all aces are LGBT or that being Ace is inherently ‘queer’.

I’m really not too thrilled with the fact that in the many years of this discourse I have seen many LGBT people talk about the fundamental issue of having an umbrella meant to protect people who’s EXPRESSION of sexuality and romantic attraction gets them beaten, killed, fired ostracized etc be guilted into accepting people whose ‘queerness’ rests largely with their desire NOT TO express sexuality (or often romantic attraction) and how that makes them uncomfortable.

But I have yet to see someone from the Ace camp be willing to actually level with that discussion. I dont’ care if they agree or disagree my point is that they jump clear over it.

What does it mean to you? Do you understand? Do you really understand that this isn’t about whether or not anyone discriminates against you, but the extent to which they’re discriminated? I just feel like there’s an elephant in the room and no one but a few outspoken gays want to address it.

How is asexuality BY ITSELF- literally specifically the condition of not having sexual desire, not having or wanting to act on a sex drive- is that fundamentally queer all on its own? 

If wanting to have sex with anyone other than the opposite sex is queer and not wanting to have sex with anyone is queer then at this point are we saying that being driven to pursue/romance the opposite sex is the one true normal?

If asexuality is the acceptance and normalization of lack of a sex drive (and I’m using cold terms hear for the sake of neutrality but I don’t actually oppose this at all), ad lack of sex drive can be caused by depression or meds, how is Asexuality the same thing as being a Lesbian or being Trans, conditions that cannot be triggered by mood or pharmaceutical interruption?

Is Asexuality-as-identity then, the anomalous feeling of non-sexuality as opposed to non-sexuality that can be said to have an origin cause? 

If Asexuality is considered a conjunction with other LGBTQ identities as is often the case, then is the suggestion that non-LGBTQ ppl who are functionally Ace are probably closeted/confused LGBTQ?

If it’s understood that queerness is not solely an issue of who you have sex with or who you  are in a romantic relationship with (i.e. it is also an issue of bodily /gender experience and expression), then wouldn’t an ace-LGBTQ’s LGBTQ identity stand on its own? This is hard to put to words but in this case someone who is Ace could/would still be relevant to the group bc they are Trans or Nonbinary or Genderfluid. So are people arguing that for these people, their Aceness should be accepted as ‘queer’ because it’s attached to their gender expression/bodily experience? And in that case, again, what about non-LGBT Aces; Aces who are Ace as secondary to life conditions?

Not saying there are right or wrong answers here but I’m kind of tired of waiting to see someone get around to asking these questions for fear of being attacked or w/e. Clarity and actual discussion- not manipulative appeals and threats of casting someone as an anti or a bigot.

Some things just don’t make sense at this point.