#jian yanli was also very stupid when she left baby Jin Ling and went to “save” WWX

[sherylhooper]

There's a reason that even tho my country and my people push very hard to have us included in Europe, and discard everything that make us similar to Asia, I don't count myself as just European but more Asian, because our country is moatly located in Asia and also because the Silk Road and other Asian coutries' culture is very similar to us. That's the conversation for another time tho but when someone reads this, I want them to know that foreigners may call us white because of our skin color (even tho my ethnicity is very diverse 😒) but they still always count us as Asians because we aren't white and European enough for them.

What I want to say with that is that as much as I like that damnei, and especially MXTX books became popular, western people with their idiotic ideas make my skin crawl.

Unpopular opinion here but Wen remnants weren't innocent just because they haven't done what Wen Ruohan did. If someone doesn't something horrible, doesn't make them innocent and good. This is why I can't stand western people. Someone made a tiktok about how horrible Jiang Cheng was for leading the siege against Wei Wuxian and how horrible he was and how heroic WWX is and I wanted to make something very very clear.

MXTX herself very clearly wrote during Sunshot campaign that "no Wen took Sunshot Campaign seriously". Here it doesn't say that every Wen, besides Wen Qing and Wen Ning and Wen Qing's branch, took Sunshot Campaign seriously. No, she very clearly wrote what she wrote. People assume way too much that Wen Qing couldn't leave Wen Ruohan's side. I'm sorry but yes, yes, she could, She could've taken Wen Ning with her, gone to Lan Xichen or Nie Mingjiu and given up as a prisoner, but she didn't.

The fact very much remains: neither she, nor Wen Ning or others gave up on Wen Rouhan. They clearly expected him to win (and he was very much winning before WWX turned up with undead army and turned the tides.).

Now I want to address another thing and it's called POW, i.e. what Wen Remnants were.

The phrase, Prisoner of War for the first time, has been used in 1610 but the idea of losing side of war being "either slaughtered of enslaved" has been there since ancient times: Romans, Greeks, Turk Sejuks, Turk Ottomans, Persians, Arabs, Mongols, Chinese, Japanese, etc. They all have taken people from losing side of war as prisoners.

Now I want to adress what these POW were used as - "Typically, victors made little distinction between enemy combatants and enemy civilians, although they were more likely to spare women and children. Sometimes the purpose of a battle, if not a war, was to capture women, a practixe known as raptio."

My people were part of raptio many times, as our enemies captured women from my country because they were beautiful and they wanted to "verbessern" (improve) their blood and bred them for that purpose as disgusting as it sounds, this is a very reason why many foreign leaders in history, especially in Asia, had my people as grandmas or mothers, most of the time unwillingly and my people also took their own life before that kind of fate would befall on them too.

That was what happened to women prisoners after war most of the time, as for men, they were used to work manually almost every time for their captors.

Now, as much as Jin Guangshan and Jin Zixun make me very very angry, (not because how they acted against Wens but because they were simply disgusting people) they weren't wrong to take Wen Remnants in and make them work manually till they died (what could be argued that Jin Zixun was wrong in following that bat and capturing and impriaoning WN and his group during nighthunt). If everything WWX acting the way he acted was abnormal. He literally stole and freed them and went to the enemy's side.

Here is where I want people reading this to forget their western opinions and Geneva Convention (which was created in 1949 AFTER two world wars.). I know that most of them and their countries have never been to war in near history (USA involvement in Afghanistan, in Iraq, in iran, in many other countries doesn't count and neither does WW1 and WW2), have never had their people expeciance genoc!de so I want them to shut their mouth and listen to us, who have had wars at the hands oppressors and colonizators for more than 2000 years, yes two thousand years, who have experienced genoc!de multiple times. Even nowdays 20% of my country is occupied by our oppressors and we had 2 wars in last 32 years also at the hands of them. In 1992-1993 and in 1998 my people experienced ethnic cleansing alongside with our allies at the hands of Russians. And last war we had was in 2008, which I remember very well and it was hardly a war and more likely bombing the civilians!

Keep that in mind that I actually was in Jiang Cheng's shoes and understand that I also have a sibling. If, God above forbid, my sibling after what happened to us, got up, defected and went to Russians side, I'd kill that traitor with my own two fucking hands!!

Does people even understand what kind of bullshit they are speaking when they say that WWX was actually not wrong to take "innocent" Wens' side? There was no such thing as innocent people there!! They were elders, sure, but you can't make me believe that if they were younger they wouldn't fight in that war or that WRH wouldn't force them to fight. Did anyone from Wen Remnants say "oh, Wen Ruohan was such a bad person, we weren't actually on his side even tho we never defected during the war but just because we have done nothing against others, we are innocent". That doesn't work like that. They couldn't have been innocent when they stayed by WRH's side in the war!! At best, they simply were indifferent in it! They alao profited from war. Funding, medicine, etc have to come from somewhere, right?

Now I want to adress Wen Ning and Wen Qing and why I don't particulary care about them. Wen Qing was a healer, we have to understand that today's medical ethics that was created by Thomas Percival, is different from what physicians thought was correct in antient times, especially in ancient China.

"The traditional Chinese medical ethics emphasized heavily on physician's morality and set high standarts for medical practice. To summarie the ideas in these historical works, the phyaicians nuat rescue every like without any preconditions."

At that time there was no such thing as patient's automony. For that reason we can't fault WQ when she performed the golden core transplatation. She just did what WWX asked her.

There'a one thing that I'm gonna argue tho. When WQ and WN saved Jiang Cheng from other Wens, WQ told WWX that their debt from now on was null and void.

So when people say that Jiang Cheng should've always be in debt with her, is actually not correct. I also want to argue that she trully only cared for her brother. When she fell on her knees in front of WWX, she only wanted him to save Wen Ning. Nowhere did she say "oh, Jin clan is treating my branch so horrible, we all want to save ourselves. Help me save them."

Now about Wen Ning. He is a guy who has no other personality than just being m nice. He helped JC and WWX after Jiang Sect annihilation and that was also because he was nice. He is just a nice guy, nothing more, nothing less. He just exists to be "just nice guy".

I can't seem to force myself to care about him.

Someone on above mentioned tiktok commented and I quote:

"there is nothing jc went through that was significantly worse than what others went through yet people baby him so much 🙄 sry i don’t like mr genocide everyone"

The tiktok author replied:

"NO FR like “he lost his family” hate to break it to u bud but so did like. Everyone else … it was kind of a war,,,"

Did I read it correctly or did they simply compared Jiang Sect Genocide to people losing one or two relatives in the war??

The author in their bio had "free Palestine". Unfortunatelly that comment here clearly speaks that they don't actually care about anyone's genocide and they probably only do it for the trend.

Apparently these people also think that Jiang Cheng hunted down that tortured "pure innocent Demonic Cultivators for fun".

Are they dumb or do they trully think that these Demonic Cultivators all were like WWX and not blood-hungry like Xue Yang?? The only remotelly normal Demonic Cultivator was WWX!! Nowhere did MXTX say, even in interviews that JC hunted Demonic Cultivators for fun! Some people have never read a book in their life and it shows!

Especially when they act as if WWX was second coming of Jesus and has never done anything wrong.

First of all, WWX did, in fact, have an army in Burial Mounds, the army of undead, fierce corpses and ghosts. That army may not have Wen Remnants, but it was still an army! Also wasn't WWX the one who wrote death threats with his own blood and sent them different sects? He, obviously, wasn't in right mind at that time but he really was the threat to the Jianghu. He was arrogant and, what we know is that Jiang Cheng led the siege (please, remember that we also hear that from other people - who love rumors and speculation and etc. We don't know for sure if JC led the siege or not.).

WWX did betray him. He left him alone when he took Wen Remnants. They were brothers!! What kind of older brother abandons their little sibling? Wei Ying also indirectly caused Jiang YanLi's death. Mind you, Wei Ying didn't die on the same day as JYL, but three months later.

That alone left Jiang Cheng trully alone with a newborn nephew!!

It's a wonder he didn't go out of his mind.

Just because WWX suffered doesn't mean other people, especially Jiang Cheng didn't lose everything in the world. He had to revive a dead sect with his two very hands in his early twenties.

Some people also don't understand what kind of power vacuum Jiang Fengmian and Yu Ziyuan's deaths created! Take cultivation out of the novel and you are left with 5 big sect with Sect Leaders who are like the kings in their own land! People pay taxes here canonically. Do some people trully believe that Yumeng Jiang would remain untouched when there was no Jiang Sect left to rule it? Jin Guangshan and other sects, big or small, would start fighting over the land. Jiang Cheng had more problems at his hands than caring about leftover Wens and the problems that Wei Wuxian created because at that time, when he stole Wens from Jin Sect, he was still a part of AND the Head Disciple of Jiang Sect 🤌🏻

Wen Ruohan wiped out one of the 5 big sects and he may have done the same if Wei Wuxian didn't insult Wen Chao, but he indirectly gave Wen Chao the reason to hate Jiang Sect even more than his father's brainwashing and people think it's not that important.

People also genuinely hate Lan Xichen because he never cared about Wen Remnants enough to take them in or save them 🤦‍♀️

Wei Wuxian should also have cared enough for his sect to at least help JC revive it or something as his Head Disciple. Him giving JC his golden core meant nothing at that time, I said what I said! Especially because he didn't know! 🤷‍♀️ I blame Jiang Fengmian for raising him all highty and mighty and lone wolf or smt, but that's the discussion of another time.

I trully believe that some people read the novel with their eyes closed! This here is exactly why I hate westerns so much when they seriously think that JC is the worst character and hate him more than Wen Ruohan, Jin Guangyao/Meng Yao and Jin Guangshan 🤌🏻

MDZS fandom is clearly very toxic and I'm very glad I'm not a part of it. I'll stay in my SVSSS bubble for eternity.

P.S. just so I can make something very clear. The Siege didn't happen because of Wen Remnants as Jin Zixun allowed WWX to take them away, but because WWX killed Jin Zixuan, who was a sect heir and also husband of his Shijie. Wen Ning killed him indirectly, WWX had no control over his abilities, he was powerfull but with no control and his mind was deteriorating at that time. He was a danger to the cultivation world. Siege happened because of him, against him, and Wen Remnants died as a colletal demage. Morally right or wrong, what he created was a political disaster and it ended with every Wen, excluding WN and Wen Yuan, and with himself dead!

UPDATE. someone from China reblogged this post and called me quite horrible things, but that's okay. They also questioned if my people have even gove thro genocide at all. Okay, denial of my people's genocide is not new either. What they said next was that Siege of Burrial Mounds was a genocide of Wen Remnants. No, actually it wasn't. They died as an collateral demage because Wei Wuxian was there, that's the tragedy. I'm gonna repeat once again, Siege happened because of WWX, not because of Wens.

Another thing what they said is that people have empathy that I lack and I'm a horrible person for that, and I should be ashamed for even thinking that or that I'm Chinese literature to spread my hate, etc, etc.

My empathy died when things such these happened to my people.

Mind you, this is only one, one single city and it's not even the whole list of crimes they have done. I'm gonna find and update this post once again, cuz it's clear that I need to spread awereness, I won't let their names be forgotten...

Today the remains of 12 people, who were considered as "lost during war", were found and transferred to my country for burial and it was very emotional as many remains still haven't been found after 30+ years yet and people still hope that there could be even a single bone found and returned so they can bury it.

So, yeah, I bury whatever empathy I have left with the remains of people everytime something like this happens. Every time people deny the genocide of my people, every time these people call US colonizers and many degrading things, saying that we oppressed them when in reality it was other way around, when we couldn't speak our language, when they called it the "dog's language" and and laughed at it, couldn't get any service if we spoke it and they mockingly told us to speak "human language", which to them was Russian, WE were oppressed in our own country and land and they took everything from us and made the world believe that we were oppressors and colonizers, they even stole the name of our region for themselves....

And no one in the world did anything about this because they didn't care. So no, everytime I'll always imagine myself in JC's shoes that I'm asked to care about ethnic Russians and Apsuas, I simply can't care, don't care and won't even care unless justice is served, unless all the land they have stolen is returned, unless they all apologize for what they have done and stop spreading lies about us....

So, good for you, if you have empathy and are a better person, unfortunately, I am not...

[shinobi98]

I'vee written this from episode 29 through 32-ish and I want to dump a quick review of what I think of the characters at this point. Just for the lols for when I finish the show and I find I was completely wrong on most of them! Im using a compiled list on Google drive for the characters, so following that order they are split into clans.

Here we go.

Wei Wuxian. I really liked him at the beginning (what a funny cinnamon roll) but ever since he went missing into Burial Grounds I'm not sure...I see his points -especially when he criticised the Jins and stood up for the Wens- , but I can't believe he doesn't see he's being corrupted. Like come on. Just let the others help you for once, this is just looking for troubles. On thin ice. Used to be 9/10

Lan Zhan. Didn't like him much - or at all - when he was introduced in Clouds Recessess. I thought he was a stick in the mud and I wasn't too fond of him. He's missing for good chunks of the story. As my opinion of WWX deteriorated, I like him more or more because he's the one making sense out of the two, this gets him a passing score, even if barely. 6/10

Jian Cheng. He was my sweet sweet baby. Unparalleled sibling energy with WWX, cute angsty ship with Wen Qing, likable personality, the drama with the core. He had it all. But at some point...I don't know man. I just don't agree with anything he says anymore, and he's just becoming more and more sulky about his inferiority complex as a Clan Leader. I feel that, not counting the 16 years later part I didn't watch yet, he should get the title of co-protagonist rather than Wangji, since he's much more involved in the plot. Used to be a 8/10, still pending.

Jian Yanli. I like her. I feel like a dumb ass for getting attached and only remembering halfway through the flashback part that she's going to die, as per the first few episodes. I'm hating every second of it, like why killing her when the show is full of unpleasant people? Poor Li. Also the ship is a big plus. This kind of drama is just *chef kiss*- (and edit: after I watched the last episode of the night and she died...it's fine I'm not crying.) 8/10

Jian Fengmian. I don't really care much about him one way or the other. A little whipped by his wife - not that it is bad per se, but she really is bad so - , didn't particularly like that he favored WWX over JC. I think he could have been better, but he was pretty decent. 7/10

Madame Yu. No. 1/10

Lan Zichen. Possibly the last dude I 100% trust in this show not to let me down - as long as he isn't influenced too much by Mang Yao. I like him in a sort of uninvolved way. Don't look forward to see him on screen, don't wonder where he is or what he is doing, pleased when he shows up and does his sensible thing and then disappears again. Kept me on my toes after he escaped from Could Recesses though, but really took him so long to come back I almost forgot I was worrying about him. Way to go Zichen. 7/10

Lan Qiren. He's alright? I don't care much. Pretty dope when he took a stand against the Wans when they attacked, but I find him to be a little too much sometimes. 6/10

The files lists some juniors I haven't seen yet. They seem baby? Cute. I assume they are going to be so-and-so 's children, like in a Boruto way. Looking forward to see all the characters paired up.

Jin Guangshan. I thought he was annoying because he had a bunch of illegitimate children that I lost track of but then he became even more annoying with his very transparent power grab -and the fact that no one seems concerned is baffling to me. Overall I think I would have pretty much liked it more if the son Zixuan was clan leader and we didn't have to deal with this piece of work. 2/10

Jin Zixuan. As I was writing this post this man went through all sort of things. From proposing to having a child to being murdered. Honestly, we didn't start off the right foot when he booked the inn where WWX & co wanted to stay. I kept wishing he would kick the bucket because I hated how he treated Yanli, and I thought he would wind up to be a minor villain...while it seems he was the only normal member of his family. I feel bad for hating him so much. 8/10.

Jin Ling. Biggest reason why I thought his dad would be a bad guy. For the first part, I thought the Jins would be the villains because of him, and not the Wens, though in the end I wasn't that off the mark in a sense. He was just a cartoonish villain. I have yet to see him again after the flashback part, but his first introduction was awful. 3/10

Meng Yao. So the thing is, I was really partial towards him at the beginning. The bit at Cloud Recesses? The part with the Nie family? Perfect. Felt so bad for how everyone treated him. I started to excuse what he was doing like "it's ok, the head of guards is a dick to him" "it's okay he was double crossing the bad guys eheh" "it's ok he is...murdering civilians?" But seriously he let me down so hard. Also his face looks so different I didn't recognise him at first. At the beginning I thought I could maybe have a cute ship with Zichen but to tell the truth I don't want Meng Yao anywhere near him now. I seriously thought he wanted to murder infant Jin Ling at some point there to climb the ladder and become Clan Leader. I'm sure he set WWX up and schemed to murder the last dregs of the Wens and Zixuan. 1/10

Jin Zixun. Pretty inconsequential. Could have done with him imo. I'm only including him because I love when WWX goes "I don't even know who you are" like three times and that's a mood because where the heck did he come from.

Mo Xuanyu. I don't get why he looks like WWX. I sort understand why they used the same actor but story-wise I don't understand. How can random people look at him and recognise WWX? Also, he is kinda stupid for giving up his life to be possessed by a bad guy to get revenge but whatever floats your boat I guess. 4/10

Nie Mingjue. I don't care much for him. He bullies his brother too much and his short temper is annoying even though often justified. I thought I could kinda always rely on him to be the voice of reason despite not liking his character but then he said the stupidest thing in the show "I'm not sitting on that chair" and left it to the Jin Sect Leader...look how that worked out. Love how he basically disappeared after that, I think because he knew he screwed up big time (jk). 6/10

Nie Huaisang. Funny. Definetly underused. I hoped he would be part of the main gang. When he stopped showing up, the show took a terrible turn in its atmosphere. Please come back as sect leader in the 16 years later part (I mean, who else is there? I hope he didn't die in the meantime because he isn't showing up in this final battle). I wish I saw him swing a sword at the least once but alas. 7/10.

Wen Ruohan. I mean. What can you expect. Typical bad guy sitting on top of a lava pond that controls zombies. Wasn't expecting much development from his character and he surely didn't deliver. A good 2-dimensional bad guy to kill without thinking too hard about anything I guess. Awful person tho. 4/10

Wen Xu. I didn't even realize there were two young Wens. I thought he was his brother at first, but without the spice. Literally why was he there. 4/10

Wen Chao. He sucks, don't get me wrong. But watching him coming up with all sorts of awful things is very entertaining. 2/10 as a person, 9/10 as a villain. Cheered when he died.

Wen Lingjiao. Same as her lover, but more annoying because she got on my nerves sometimes. I was so glad when she got it. The (1) good thing coming out of WWX's corruption. 2/10

Wen Zhuliu. I really want to know what drove him to serve Chao with such devotion. His technique was kinda cool. I think he would have been an okay guy but sadly he associated with Chao. 4/10

Wen Ning. I thought "No, poor Ning is dead" ten times already and still counting. Please WWX just let him die. He is/was just a sweetheart and I loved him with all my heart. His death and everything that came after it filled me with rage, when i thought he died I was brokenhearted, and the fact that he gets blamed for killing people when it's arguably WWX's fault is so unfair. We didn't deserve Wen Ning. I don't really like that he became the Ghost General tho. 10/10

Wen Qing. I liked her. Same as her brother, how their story ended up upset me. I hoped they would get to live peacefully in their commune in the woods. That part of the story was *chef kiss*. The romance with JC lacked closure imo but I understand that they both had things going on and they would need to stretch the story too much to get the together or at the least talk about their feelings. I hoped till the end she wouldn't be killed because I knew Ning came bad 16 years later, so they must have avoided being executed, but more realistically I guess he's just a zombie and she's just dead. I lowkey shipped her with WWX though I feel this would be an unpopular opinion in the fandom -when I learned WWX has a different endgame ship I was kinda bummed sorry. I thought we would get a sort of love triangles with JC, I can't say I'm disappointed because it would have been a terrible plot. They really have a good platonic relationship, I loved to see them build that village. 8/10

Song Lan/ Xiao Xingchen / Xue Yang. What's the deal with them? They seemed to be set up to come back but only Song Lan does a passing appearance. Are they coming back? What was their significance? So weird because the untamed usually doesn't introduce characters to just drop them when the episode's over.