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slayerkitty · 8 months

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On Hidden Agenda And if the Agenda is Really Hidden

Otherwise known as @respectthepetty and I watched episode 11, looked at each other, scratched our heads and pulled the clown car over to the side of the road. Episode 11 was not the traditional "BL Episode of Doom" it usually is in most BLs. Some BLs do purposefully subvert this trope or move the episode of doom to episode 10 instead.

It didn't feel like that was what happened here. So we hopped out of the clown car, whipped out our phones to check our maps and directions, because we were very, very confused. We were so sure we had the show figured out! And...no?

So we decided to backtrack; turn the clown car around and start the trip again from the start. To take this week and re-watch Hidden Agenda from the beginning and figure out what the hell we missed.

We also took a detour into source material territory (aka looked up a summary about the book) which was no help to the current situation, because @respectthepetty discovered that JengPok, Nita's stalker, Puen, and Wave x Trin weren't even in it! The only thing we were able to confirm with it is that it's from Joke's POV, he's unhinged in it, and Zo spends most of it dating Nita.

With all this in mind, I sat down with episode 1 of Hidden Agenda in hopes that I would discover anything that we might have missed. I also have slowly cultivated two theories that as of episode 6 still hold up though I don't know how much weight I want to give the second one (but I also can't let it go).

Before I delve into the theories, I do want to point out a couple things that I have noticed.

Zo is super intense about debate club, NOVA, and the Finland scholarship from episode 1. His coaching of Joke in episode 2 rivals his mother's coaching of him in episode 10. If someone who makes gifs could make a gif set that parallels those two scenes, I would be eternally grateful; it will blow your mind. Zo's issues with disappointing his mom are also there from episode one, but they are super subtle. He doesn't want Kot to tag him in his IG story because his mom might see him at the bar drinking. He mentions in I think either episode 2 or 3 that his mom hasn't visited in a while because she's been busy and the way he says it is so... ugh, he needs a hug.

Zo's trauma from Puen's horrible treatment of him is also evident from episode 1 as well; he is constantly saying that he doesn't want to make anyone uncomfortable, that he's worried he's upsetting people, etc. It's constant. Seriously, someone hug Zo.

Theory 1: Joke did something bad/something bad happened to someone he cared about (probably in high school and appears to have gotten therapy about it based on how he speaks)

Episode 1:

In the flashback to the Freshy Contest, while Joke is scolding(?) Zo, he says, "What you said on that stage won't change a broken system."

Episode 2:

Joke tells Zo, "My tongue gets me in trouble."

When Joke and Zo are debating about hidden agendas in relationships, Joke asks why he should tell someone things when he starts dating them because he should be able to tell things in his own time.

Episode 3:

Joke says "Before you get to know someone, you need to know yourself."

Joke also asks/tells Zo to trust him for the first time.

Joke talks about the Triangular Theory of Love: Passion, Intimacy and Commitment

Joke is pretty worried when Zo crashes his bike and makes Zo ride with him instead.

Joke mentions that he used to go to the restaurant Zo picked out with his dad, back when they used to go out to eat; this suggests a distance between him and his dad.

During dinner, Joke says that "What you see of someone may not be the whole story," and "Stay true to yourself."

In the library, Joke tells Zo "I would never let someone I love face danger alone."

The next day, Zo is sitting outside when Joke finds him and says that Zo wasn't answering his calls. and it's implied he was searching for Zo because he was worried.

Joke invites himself on Zo's trip as if he's afraid if Zo leaves without him, something bad will happen.

Episode 4:

Joke tells Zo he couldn't leave Zo "alone and sad" and "I'll never abandon you"

Joke also says "I only care for those who care for me."

Joke is afraid of the glass bridge but he's also to worried to let Zo go out on the bridge by himself.

After dinner, Joke says "Sometimes people don't show all their cards."

Episode 6:

Joke gifts Zo a sunflower pillow and tells him to look up the meaning, Zo searches up "liveliness sprung from despair."

Joke insists on picking up Zo so Zo doesn't go out in the rain/worried about his health.

Kot doesn't seem to like Joke and extremely overreacts to the way Joke trying to get Zo to eat the food he bought. Now, Joke was maybe a little pushy, but Kot goes off the handle.

When cuddling in bed, Joke says "hugging for 30s releases Oxytocin" and if they hug longer, "it means we feel the same."

Theory 2: Joke is a stalker

Yeah, you read that right. There is ample evidence throughout the first 6 episodes that on first watch, didn't quite ring alarm bells, but on re-watch, are setting off sirens. I kinda had this as a crack theory in the back of my head after episode 8 first aired, but now it's staring me in the face and feels a lot less crack-y

Episode 1:

Joke eavesdrops on Zo recording his podcast

Joke is super intense when speaking to Zo at the studio and manhandles him a little so that Joke can sort of pin him against the wall.

Joke eavesdrops on Zo and friends on the bus and then approaches him after to give advice on Nita

Joke asks Zo if the iced coffee is for Zo and says it's not because "Zo doesn't like coffee."

Joke always seems to be around when Zo is trying to approach Nita.

Joke confesses that he has a crush before singing a song.

When Zo tries to leave the bathroom after getting sick, Joke actively won't let him, grabbing him roughly and holding him in place.

In the flashback to the Freshy Contest, Zo asks Joke why he won't quit if he hates it and Joke says he has his reasons.

At the studio, Joke says "I love you and you love me" in Chinese and proceeds to do what has been touted as an "erotic wedding based tradition" with drinking the Roselle juice.

Episode 2:

Joke starts pushing boundaries with food

Joke and Zo make a deal to help Zo with Nita.

Joke has a fantasy of Zo winning and them kissing.

Joke pushes boundaries with food again

Joke admits to Zo he has a crush on someone.

When Joke and Zo are debating about hidden agendas in relationships, Joke asks why he should tell someone things when he starts dating them because he should be able to tell things in his own time.

Joke ties Zo's shoe

Joke says he's already started helping Zo with Nita, but has he?

Episode 3:

Joke basically milks all the situations with Zo in his favor under the guise of helping Zo with Nita

Joke admits he listens to Zo's podcast because it helps him sleep.

During dinner, Joke says that "What you see of someone may not be the whole story," and "Stay true to yourself."

In the library, Joke tells Zo "I would never let someone I love face danger alone."

The next day, Zo is sitting outside when Joke finds him and says that Zo wasn't answering his calls. and it's implied he was searching for Zo because he was worried.

Joke insists on driving Zo home despite Zo's protests.

Joke invites himself on Zo's trip really insistently and hugs Zo excitedly when Zo agrees.

Episode 4:

Joke tells Zo he couldn't leave Zo "alone and sad" and "I'll never abandon you"

Joke also says "I only care for those who care for me."

After dinner, Joke says "Sometimes people don't show all their cards."

Episode 4:

Joke knows how long it's been since Zo changed his profile pic.

After dinner, Joke says "Sometimes people don't show all their cards."

Episode 5:

Joke confronts Zo for trying to avoid him and wanting to forget their kiss. Joke is incredibly aggressive and spills his drink on Zo as a result.

Joke continues to message Zo that Zo is avoiding him and that he's going to come over. Zo says not to. Joke does anyway.

Joke gets himself invited to dinner with Zo and his mom.

Joke makes a move while doing dishes and tells Zo he wants to know how Zo feels.

Joke says "why would you hurt me and tell me to forget?" and "you never care about my feelings."

Joke also says "don't run away from me," and "don't avoid me."

Joke confesses through tongue twister.

Joke remembers that Zo hates stink beans.

Joke tells Zo "I would do anything for you," and "I like you Zo, I want to show you that you like me, too."

Asks Zo to let Joke pursue him.

Episode 6:

Joke gifts Zo a sunflower pillow and tells him to look up the meaning, Zo searches up "liveliness sprung from despair."

Joke insists on picking up Zo so Zo doesn't go out in the rain/worried about his health.

Joke pushes boundaries with food again and then fights with Kot.

Zo tells Joke he needs to respect boundaries.

Joke oversteps boundaries again in at debate club.

Joke pushes Zo again for an answer on his feelings; Joke says he "will always wait" for Zo.

Joke also insists that Zo was into him all along and not Nita.

Joke watches Zo at the debate open house and gets jealous.

Joke wants Zo to stay over; he pushes Zo again for an answer to his feelings. When Zo wants to go shower, Joke grabs his arm and stop him, saying that he won't let Zo run away.

Joke gives Zo the arcade t-shirt and when Zo says he doesn't know the significance, Joke tells Zo to take it off. Joke then takes his own shirt off and refuses to put it back on.

Joke asks to hold Zo and Zo doesn't answer, just rolls over onto his side away from Joke. Joke says "silence means yes" (and in this case it did but OH MY GOD) and proceeds to cuddle Zo.

As I go through my re-watch, I'll add more to both theories but as of episode 6, they both hold up. I can't decide of Joke himself actually did (insert bad thing here) to someone, or just knew someone that (insert bad thing here) happened to. Joke being a stalker wasn't that evident at first, but it is now! At a minimum, Joke is obsessive, posessive and overly clingy.

Also, these theories can both be true! They don't contradict each other in any way. Stay tuned for Part 2, probably... Friday or Saturday.

#hidden agenda the series #hidden agenda meta #thai bl #Yes I've lost my mind #Writing this took me hours its ridiculous

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dballzposting · 1 year

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dragon ball super heroes manga vol. 1 review

(gif from @piccoku ‘s header. I used to go to their blog so that I could sit and stare at this gif. I didnt know what it was from (they told me but I didnt understand emotionally). I didnt know why Trunks had on such a snazzy coat. I didnt know who that little birch was in the background. I didnt know that this was future trunks (or maybe I did. I dont remember. He has a sword). But now I know. Now I know everything)

Disclaimer: I did not really read it. MY SUBSTANTIVE THOUGHTS (and screenshots) ARE UNDER THE CUT.

this is the link i used to read it: https://chapmanganato.com/manga-gb983458/chapter-1

I went through chapters 1-11 looking for Goten becasue I was told that Goten and Future Trunks fuse into Gotenks AND THEY REALLY DO!! For this reason I am rating the piece a solid 5/5 stars. Continue reading for my in-depth analysis.

The kaioshin of time character

She is so funny. She’s a silly little sonofabitch. She wears heels (not pictured here) and I like the rest of her outfit as well.

In the first chapter she kept restating who she was, seen here when she uses that interjection as a predicate noun phrase. Or something like that. Who’s going to fucking correct me.

EVERY TIME SHE SUMMONED SOMEONE she GAVE THEM A COAT WITHOUT ASKING !!!!!!!!!!! She was like Oh I am just going to have to class up the place !

^ Everyone’s coats. I think that Goku and Vegeta didnt get one initially bc theyre Goku and Vegeta, you cant just change their outfits like that! But by the end of it they’re wearing coats (seen here).

The KoT (kaioshin of time) wants things a certain way. That is her prerogative as the current kaioshin of time. She’s earned this job through her autistic swag and skill.

VEGETTO: SHIRTLESS

Gohan

I was not paying attention but I thought that maybe that this is Future Gohan (from the bad timeline). I AM NOT SURE. But I think it might be. Again I was not paying much attention.

If he is then that’s really cool I think. He’s pretty funny in the comic. He admires all the other cool characters (seen above). And he looks really good in that coat.

When Goten joined their team, he adapted to having a baby brother like no prablem. I guess he had a Trunks so it’s kind of the same thing. But wait right there. It’s totally different. Trunks is a polite young man while Goten is a wild young man.

btw Gohan and Future Trunks did a metamoran fusion so that was cool.

Gohna is totally cool

Gotenks Moments

FUCK YEAH!!!!!

^ That YAAY! written out behind Gotenks; that’s what I did when I saw him. BTW as you can see in that little bubble right yonder, Future Trunks’s hair had grown out. This is becasue early on in the volume, he and Goku did some training in some room that the Kaioshin of Time modified so that time moved super slowly inside it. On the outside, only three days had passed, and the kaioshin had spent it pouring through thousands of scrolls, using her coveted Hyperfocus Swag ability. So now Trunks’s hair is long. Gotenks’s hair is not long however. Don’t know why.

ALSO CRYING BECASUE

WHAT IS THAT FUCKING GHOST!!!!

He’s still just as coooooooooool omg omg he hasnt lost any of his magic and zest. It’s not even the right Trunks in there but he’s thriving.

Also he has a cool sword now.

LOL. So we didn’t actually see Goten’s arrival NOR Gotenks’s fusion, he just SHOWED UP and we all went AAAAAAAAAAAAA and we get context retroactively through character thoughts/words like this. MS KAIOSHIN OF TIME THINKS THAT GOTEN IS “A FLIRT” NJDKSHBFJKS this is due to his energetic and friendly nature. He has transparency and doesnt modify his playful and forward behavior even when in front of an esteemed lady, and she thinks that that forwardness is flirtiness. He is such a sweet boy. She didnt know what she was getting into, enlisting him like that... She was like “Oh let’s nab Goku’s second son real quick” and now shes stuck with him. Gorgeous stuff.

Anyway. I’ve seen it said that DBZ Gotenks is more Trunks than Goten due to the arrogance and rudeness and cockiness and cocksureness and ETC ETC ETC. This is due to young Goten coming off as a very kind kid so the contrast between he and Gotenks is strong.

BUT I KNEW BETTER...! I knew that the wildness and playfulness of Goten was in there.

Now this Gotenks is the wild and playful Goten and FUTURE Trunks. Here is a list of adjectives that describe future Trunks:

Polite, kind, cool, considerate, calm, careful, bashful, utilitarian, courteous, respectful, mild-mannered, thoughtful.

So you’re probably wondering: IS THIS GOTENKS ANY DIFFERENT FROM DBZ GOTENKS ? Other than the age gap I mean. And new outfit.

Verdict: I THINK SO!!!

This Gotenks, in his short appearance, came across to me as more FRIENDLY than ARROGANT. He’s CONFIDENT, and a bit COCKY, but it comes from a place of self-love. He’s full of love. He’s playful. He’s transparent. He has integrity. He’s still autistic. And he’s having a lot of fun tearing up the court out there.

DBZ Gotenks would not listen to anyone about anything. This Gotenks definitely heeds the words of others, in the very least by dignifying them with a response explicating his thought process (seen above). He’s not an asshole. All in all, he is a team player, which is so NOT dbz Gotenks.

And we see Goten’s rowdy and fun influences really shine..!

Goten and Goten + Future Trunks interactions

This is the first time we see Goten (cover art)

I love him I know that that’s him and I love that I know him when I see him I think that that’s phenomenal. I unwittingly projected onto him a lot with the whole “he bites people he spits on people licking is his love language he wants to drool on you like a dog while he watches you sleep. He wants to lick your teeth” stuff and thats okay.

This is the second time we see him :)

LOL he’s so cute and squeezable in that coat.

I really like this reply by @loreofthefritz on a post about this existence of a Future Trunks Gotenks:

After I read it I was putzing around my house getting dressed eating etc and i kept saying it over and over to myself .. “yeah ok sure i mean we need to.” yeah ok sure i mean we need to. yeah ok sure i mean we need to. Truer shit has never been said.

Look Trunks says his name lol

He knows his name :). Goten mustve been all like “Howdy my name is Goten how the fuck are you? :)” and Future Trunks was like “owo ... GOKU HAD A SECOND SON.. ? O.o Jeepers!”

I like this part becasue we all know that Goten aint shit. At the EOZ he lost to Pan in that tournament. In GT he’s sloppy and comparatively senseless in battle. He’s just 21st century arm candy at this point and THAT’S OKAY!!!

I like that he says this becasue it’s spoken like a true senior fratty .. He’s looking out for the younger ones.

WINK. He’s so playful. I know he’s about to get his teeth kicked in. He must know it too. But he’s gotta look cool for the kids.

But it’s more than that. WHAT, IS HE SUPPOSED TO RUN ? That’s not an option. Mercy and self-sacrifice is in his blood. It’s his culture. Of course he says this.

BTW he doesnt actually get his shit kicked in. Here is an epic moment by him ^ (pictured above).

I want to talk for a moment about the dynamic here between Goten and Future Trunks.

I think that, going into it, Trunks would feel like: Oh, this is Gohan’s younger brother! He’s like family! :D

This is easy enough. And if Goten were simple or polite or medium-energy or equally respectful, it would probably feel this way. No problem. But, those just aren’t the vibes that Goten gives out. It feels much less like you’re meeting a long-lost family member and much more like you’re meeting a neighbor in your college dorm who knows all of the local secrets and tips and tricks and who speaks to you like you’re best buds.

And from Goten’s POV, he goes into it knowing that this is Trunks but five years younger than him. What’s more, he’s had an entirely different life experience from his present Trunks. Essentially, Goten goes into it feeling like “Ok, I gotta be the wise and dependable guy on the block. I gotta be a supportive and guiding factor. Like those senior fratties that I looked up to when I was 17 myself. Finally, my time to shine!”

But the thing is, Goten is very transparent. He doesnt have many different registers. He has more than Goku becasue Chichi beat them into him but he still doesnt have many. What you see is what you get. And he’s used to being the youngest. He’s specifically used to being younger than Trunks. The way this manifests is that I don’t even think that Trunks realizes he’s fully 22 until a while in. Goten acts like they’re equals. he thinks he’s being old and cool but he’s literally talking with his mouth full and cracking open pistachios and rambling about gossip and then wrapping his arm around Trunks’s shoulder and saying shit like “Hey, I know these guys. They can be kind of intimidating. Your dad? Yeah, he’s scary. My dad? He’s scary STRONG. Gohan’s not intimidating. You know him. This kaioshin lady? Like, what’s her deal, right? But don’t worry, I know kaioshins. It can be scary and weird at first, but I’m used to this shit, yeah? So I’m here to protect you if you feel intimidated. If you fart in front of everyone I will totally take the heat for you. Really, I’m good for it! Honest! I will do that for you. I’m not scared of these schmucks. Or this demon realm mumbo jumbo. Man, I fought Majin Buu when I was 7, and he was totes scary! Take it from me, man, there’s a point where the world stops being scary and starts being just plain fucked up. And that’s fine. I WILL TAKE THE HEAT FOR YOU. I got your back. As far as I’m concerned, as long as we’re in this shit together, you and I are best bros. Brothers from different mothers from different timelines, ya dig? You can totally let one rip in front of your dad and I will say it was me. He’ll believe me too because I’ve done it before.”

I mean maybe over time the college-roommate-trying-to-be-your-protective-guide schtick starts to become clear, but I mean he’s literally pulling up a seat next to Trunks at the dinner table (the chair screeches against the floor HORRIFICALLY LOUDLY) and slamming his ass down and reaching over Trunks and everyone to get to everything on the table and saying loudly “Hey BTW if you’re wondering who clogged the kaioshin’s shitter it was NOT ME it was like that when I got there I just added to it” and then after a while of talking with his mouth full Gohan actually gets up and walks around the table and puts his hand on Goten’s shoulder and tells him delicately that he is being very impolite right now. And when he leaves Goten watches him leave and then he leans over to Trunks (who was looking forward to a nice dinner with Vegeta and Gohan) and whispers “yeah. He’s kind of a nerd in my time too.”

And like, yknow, Future Trunks likes him fine. Trunks is pretty evenly-tempered so he doesn’t emote or opine much, and maybe he has a moment where an anime droplet appears on his head and he cant believe the behavior he’s witnessing, but for the most part he’s chill. He’s cool and considerate, remember?

Future Trunks has never had a BFF before and Goten isnt trying to be his BFF but that’s just how he acts. The BFFness is implied in his directness and honesty and casual physical proximity. Trunks really doesnt have a BFF Mode so he just acts himself, which is to say he appears surprised or unprepared for Goten’s nature (which maybe sometimes he really is) but like I said he’s cool with it. He’s quick with it. He doesnt return it but he’s there for it. He’s never had a BFF before. He’s never had anyone talk to him like that before. He’s never witnessed such behavior and jests. I think he has fun.

Additional pics:

Everyone’s cool coat again

Gohan and Goten moment

Goten having a Mung Daal moment

Okay that’s about it :) Thanks for reading my lovely post.

PS: There is a lot of senseless fusion in this comic. In just what I skimmed, we saw: Trunks and Vegeta potara fusion (Vegeks), Trunks and Gohan metamoran fusion, Trunks and Goten metamoran fusion, Vegeta and Goku metamoran fusion, Vegeta and Goku potara fusion.

It really got me thinking. You know, we all know that “In The Air Tonight” by Phil Collins is a Vegeta song. And we all know that Goten listens to rock and metal. Well there’s this rock band called In This Moment who did a cover of that song. Thus turning that Vegeta song into a Goten song.

And every time I hear it I think about, how bad would shit have to be to result in a Vegeta and Goten fusion ?! Shit must have to REALLY hit the shitter. VEGETEN. Truly a LAST CASE SCENARIO for a WORST CASE SCENARIO.

I think that being fused with Goten is just, like, a shot of sunshine up your spine. We see it in Gotenks’s exuberance, which is present no matter which Trunks is involved. I think that Vegeten would have a bounce in his step and a wild, free look in his eye. But he is 100% locked to the ground and COMMITTED to this battle and opponent.

I think that he would be careful and contemplative and decisive, but, like, in a stupid way. He studies the enemy through two glass cups like they’re binoculars.

I think that he would use THE MOST SARCASTIC kamehame-ha.

This is a guy who would call Bulma “Ma’am.”

Trunks wouldnt fucking know how to deal with him becasue the way he interacts with Goten and the way he interacts with his father are literally the most opposite that two interactions can be. But it’s of no concern to Vegeten. If Trunks says something even slightly casual or disrespectful, Vegeten lowers his glass-binoculars and goes “Is that any way to speak to me, kid?” Truly a fun guy. I’ve tried to draw him before but there’s not much to get across. All them fusions kind of look alike yknow what I’m saying. End post

#dballz posting

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