#legitiamtely talk about her character and motivations and reasons that doesn't boil down to her being a 'bad wife'

[allastoredeer]

I love theory/lore time!

https://www.tumblr.com/allastoredeer/742800213644853248/okay-i-put-my-thoughts-in-the-tags-but-it-wont?source=share

I wanted to say that I also agree with both intakes and those who overall theorize that the person/entity that owns Alastor's soul is either Eve or Roo.

Honestly, Idk if Eve and Roo are different or the same. Maybe they started as two separate entities, but after Eve ate the forbidden apple, they slowly became one. Kind of like how it seemed that Roo was an entity and not just a concept, what allowed Roo to get released in the physical world was the ingestion and possession of Eve… or maybe I'm just sippling.

Anyway, I think the main reason why I feel am not Alastor's contractor is because I just have this feeling that she is not a threat. The show makes it seem as if she was sort of conspiring against hell, but it does not make sense to me for a person who was basically that face of the resistance to sort of be a threat to Charlie and hell in general. She seems sketchy, not going to lie, and that whole thing of both Lilith and Alastor disappearing at the same time is highly suspicious, but idk… maybe I'm crazing but I do not feel such animosity from Alastor to Lilith.

One could look at Al's reaction to Lucifer as maybe a remainder to whom he may a deal (if it was Lilith), besides the obvious of him maybe threatening his position at the hotel. But if that was the case, I would think he would not act the way he does with Charlie. Yes, it can be argued that acts that way because he is trying to manipulate Charlie into something regarding the deal (probably… he is but we are uncertain of what he might really go for with the deal he made), but it just does not add. He might have a soft spot for women, but it does not add that he acted mildly with Charlie (the daughter of the person who owns his soul, in this scenario) when just the mention of him being on a leash had him losing his cool like he did with Husk in ep5. It does not add that he had a mental breakdown because he might have almost gotten attached and risked his life for this group of people (also because he might have overestimated his powers, and we do not exactly know how much the deal restricts him in terms of power). I totally see him working alongside her because he must gain what he has, but I just do not see it being so "friendly" with her. Or maybe I am just underestimating his acting skills.

My point is that (at least in my head, and the way I interpreted the situation) I see more possibility that Eve/Roo/something else is the one holding Al's soul and not Lilith. Now, again, it is really weird that both of them went away at the same time. My theory is that, somewhere along the lines (sometime after Al's made the deal maybe) both he and Lilith partner to maybe stop Eve/Roo or Eve/Roo made Al and Lilith confront in a way that made Lilith having to seek shelter in Heaven, and Alastor to go away. But I feel it was Lilith who might have asked Alastor to watch/help Charlie, and he might have agreed because it is convenient as well… and maybe because it was also Eve/Roo's order…

IDK maybe he is a double spy, and despite all this, he is trying to seek the perfect opportunity which is going to give him the chance to "move all the strings". I also headcanon that both might have a level of respect for one another but that is just a crazy thought of mine because they haven't even interacted so… idk

Anyway, sorry for the rant. Love how your mind thinks!

ALRIGHT IM HERE! I know this has been sitting in my inbox for the past week, but I'm here now and ready to get into it!

I've never considered the possibility that Eve and Roo are the same, but hmmm, thinking about it, I'm not so sure. In the opening of the show, it's said that evil already exists.

Angels shielded all from Evil. So, Roo (the literal Root of all Evil) will have existed long before Eve was even created. If she were using Eve as a host, however... ◉_◉ As being the first one to let evil into the world being the gateway (for a lack of better word) and Roo taking advantage of that...

It was Adam and Eve eating the apple that allowed evil to find it's way to Earth.

Like, the phrasing here says it all. "For with this single act of disobedience, evil FINALLY found its way into Earth."

So not only has evil existed for a long time, it's implied that it's been trying to find a way to get to Earth. (Also, the Roo theory brain is taking over, this whole scene, with these black tendrils growing, turning into a hand, and curling around Earth, do those not resemble roots to anyone? I'd gif it if I knew how, but it literally looks like roots growing up and wrapping themselves around humanity. ROOT OF ALL EVIL, come on, the symbolism is there.)

And with Alastor, I truly think he cares more than he wants. I think he cares more than he expected to. I know there's a lot of people who just do NOT think he does, and that he's going to be the big bad (or at least an antagonist), and while I don't disagree about the antagonist part (I can see him being an obstacle to get in their way), I just think there's going to be more to his character arc. I don't think he's just going to manipulate the hotel, betray everyone, and get all the power he's ever wanted and that's IT.

For one, as any writer knows, stories need conflict. Characters need conflict. One could argue that Alastor's deal is his conflict, but I think his true conflict is going to be getting attached to Charlie and co. and not wanting to. i think he's going to fight it tooth and nail, but I think, in the end, he's going to be their ally (or as much of an ally as he can be considering someone--most likely the actual antagonist of the show--has his soul).

And I agree with you about his relationship with Charlie. We can already see that he's a good at manipulating. The "Dad Beat Dad" episode gave us numerous examples of him using his relationship with Charlie (saying things like "We're all very proud of her," and that he's "happy to fulfill her bizarre requests") to get under Lucifer's skin, while Charlie is shown to whole-heartedly believe him. He IS a manipulator and he knows how to pin-point that insecurity to get what he wants.)

However, there's also examples in the show where he was kind and considerate to Charlie when he literally didn't need to be. There was no reason or benefit to him for doing so.

One example would be him going with her to assist in getting the cannibals help. He didn't need to do this. He got what he wanted. He officially has a deal with Charlie. He gave her the information she needs in exchange for a favor, there's no reason to linger. But he does, and not only does he freely suggest Cannibal Town, but he's going WITH her to recruit their help.

When Charlie is talking to Rosie to get said help, she's frantic and stumbling over herself, and Alastor pipes in to help her. Later, when Charlie is singing her song to convince the cannibals, he pipes in again (when it's obvious they're not entirely on board) to include that they'll get to eat angels, which is the tipping point that gets the town interested. And another time during that same song when he said "he knew she could do it all along." Charlie wasn't there, so who was he supposed to be manipulating in that scenario?

Rosie? As if Rosie doesn't already know Alastor's whole schtick, she was literally telling him about souls he could go make deals with earlier in the episode. Demons who are in a territory that they can't properly defend, which would make them desperate. Easy pickings to manipulate a few into giving up their souls.

He had faith in Charlie getting the cannibals to join and even helped her along every step of the way.

And that's not even mentioning the fact that he has literally let her use his cane twice. His cane, which Vivzepop has said is like an extension of himself. We haven't seen him let anyone else in the series touch his cane. Hell, he didn't even need to offer his cane in the first place, the microphone she was using earlier was still right there.

One could argue he was trying to get the cannibals to help so they could defend the hotel and have a better chance at, you know, NOT dying. But there's multiple times when he does things he didn't have to do, because there was literally no benefit of it to him. But he did.

Because I think he's more attached than he wants to believe.

Where was I...I went on an Alastor tangent.

But yes! The way I see it right now, I can see Roo going after Lillith because Lillith empowered demonkind.

Lucifer may the the ultimate ruler of Hell, but it's obvious that he didn't really...interact much with the rest of Hell. At least from what we've seen. He was ashamed of what he did and lost his will to dream.

He fell into depression. I think when he and Lillith had Charlie, it really did make him happy. I think it brought him out of his depression for a bit, but depression doesn't just...go away. At least not for everyone. And we do see that something had to happen between him and Lillith to result in them splitting up, AND something had to happen to him and Charlie to result in them not seeing each other for long periods of time, to the point of Charlie not even wanting to call him for help when she could really use it.

Guys been in depression for a while, and I can't see him getting involved with Hell, which he's ashamed of creating at all. I can see him being more than happy to step aside for Lillith to handle it herself. I don't think Roo would see him as much of a threat so long as he's not getting involved.

Because as the show says:

She literally EMPOWERED demonkind. Hell grew and evolved, and it became so much more. It became powerful enough for Heaven to not only take notice, but to get worried.

Lillith has MUCH more of an impact in Hell. She has more reach and authority, and I can see Roo being intimidated and/or threatened by that. There's a lot Roo (the Root of All Evil) can do in Hell, where the sinners and wicked go--those who commit evil acts. This should be her PLAYGROUD. But it's Lillith who has authority here.

So maybe Roo needed to get her out of the way? And how much farther can she get Lillith from Hell then having her go to Heaven?

I definitely think there's a connection between Alastor and Lillith. Maybe Lillith did enlist Alastor for his help. Maybe Roo already got Alastor's soul and he helped her, in some way, get Lillith to go to Heaven. I don't know what the connection is, but I'm so eager to find out.

(Also, can we all talk about how Lillith empowered demonkind with her voice, her songs, and Charlie is out here singing every time she wants to help Hell--when she first got the meeting with Adam, when she's trying to convince Adam of her plan, her song with Pentious, etc... And when Rosie asks how she typically tries to get people interested in her hotel, she does so by singing. All of her songs are about love, redemption, being better, working together, almost as if she's trying to empower demonkind with her voice too.)

I think we should talk more about not only what Charlie gets from Lucifer, but what she gets from Lillith as well.

But YES, I'm just so eager to see the whole deal with Alastor and Lillith, and I REALLY think Roo is going to come into play here somewhere. I really do. If not now, then later.

Personally, I still think Roo has Alastor's soul, but who knows? Maybe Lillith DOES have Alastor's soul, but Roo blackmailed/threatened Lillith into going to Heaven, so Lillith ordered Alastor to keep an eye on Charlie for her? Who knows? No one.

Who wants to know? ME!

fgo;fg;sgnsjn AHH I fucking love talking about this show, it gets my brain going.