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willthoughtout-blog · 6 years

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To bear in mind when criticising Israel

Today, there was a protest outside Parliament attacking anti-Semitism within the Labour party, and specifically anti-Semitism within Corbyn’s faction of the Labour party.

This marks an important moment. As far as I’m aware, protests against institutional anti-Semitism are rare within the UK. When we think of racism here, we tend to think of anti-black or Islamophobic racism, among others. What this protest shows is that something has changed.

At the core of the protest is this:

The protesters say there is pervasive anti-Semitism within the Corbyn-led faction of the Labour party that is now dominant.

The counter-protesters say this is a) politically motivated (MPs known to dislike Corbyn took part) and b) the party is not anti-Semitic, it simply criticises the Israeli government.

So I want to talk about this notion that is frequently repeated by people I often agree with on other matters - that it ‘isn’t anti-Semitic to criticise Israel’.

I understand the logic of this argument. I held it too, I think, in a vague way before I took more interest in the topic. My first protest was a pro-Palestine, anti-Israel protest (my friend, who was more into it, dragged me along - I didn’t know the first thing about the situation to be honest).

So I understand the logic of those attacking the anti-Semitism protesters. But I disagree. I don’t think saying ‘it isn’t anti-Semitic to criticise Israel’ is good enough. This is for a number of reasons. Firstly, because it is often false - it ignores the fact that many who criticise Israel are anti-Semitic, especially within these groups Corbyn associates with. And secondly, because there are massive consequences of such a casual attitude to anti-Semitism - this racism is on the rise in UK politics, in large part because of these groups. And, to be honest, I’m not a massive fan of increasing racism.

The UK left, and anti-Semitism

There seems to me to be 2 potential reasons why someone might criticise the current Israeli government:

Genuine disgust for the crimes committed by the Israeli government (I share this opinion)

Hatred for Jewish people (because of Israel’s status as a Jewish state)

The UK left has been massively focused on the Israel-Palestine conflict for years now. Unfortunately, I think this is a meshing of the 2 reasons above, rather than a pure governmental critique.

The evidence for this is not hard to find.

Corbyn, for example, has campaigned in many pro-Palestine groups and events that I’m sure are perfectly well-intentioned. He has, however, supported groups strongly linked to Holocaust deniers. The latest controversy, which sparked today’s protests, were about the following mural:

This is so blatantly filled with anti-Semitic tropes, it’s difficult to even know where to start. The rich bankers, the large noses, the Illuminati conspiracy triangle. And the controversy is that Corbyn defended the artist who designed this, when he said it was being removed.

Another prominent leader of this group is Ken Livingstone (former 2-term Labour Mayor of London), a close ally of Corbyn’s. He’s made such a range of dubious comments about Jews, it’s difficult to know where to start (just check his Wikipedia page out). Corbyn was recently lenient on him when he seemed to suggest that Hitler wasn’t fundamentally so anti-Jew, it was just that he ‘went a bit crazy’.

There are others - it is far from just those at the top - but these are the 2 most powerful and prominent people in this faction.

Anti-semitism on the UK Right

A further problem is that anti-Semitism is not just confined to the likes of Corbyn and Livingstone. It is spreading across our society, and has popped up in the far right areas too.

Nigel Farage, for example, said recently that the ‘Jewish lobby’ has too much influence on US politics. He has also attacked George Soros, a Hungarian Jewish billionaire, for being some sort of traitor against Britain. As a Jewish billionaire (who, incidentally, has done lots of great pro-democracy work), it’s mind-numbingly predictable that he would be the subject for anti-Semitic attacks.

And this is occurring in more than just the fringe Ukip-parts of the conutry. This was the Telegraph’s front page recently, written by the former right-hand man of our current Prime Minister:

The anti-Semitic tropes (a rich Jew, ‘secret plot’, subverting our democracy etc) are again so blindingly obvious.

The emerging picture

The point is that we are a country experiencing a rise in anti-Semitism. This cannot be overlooked.

And this is not just happening in the UK, but across the world. Conspiracies about Jewish media and financial elites, George Soros, the Rothschilds, etc are international phenomena. This is because anti-Semitism (like many of other forms of prejudice) transcends country lines.

For proof, just check out the anti-Semitism Wikipedia page. There’s a whole host of examples:

A massacre in Germany in 1096

An expulsion from England in 1290

A massacre in Spain in 1391

An expulsion from Spain in 1492

A massacre in Ukraine in the 1650s

Pogroms in Russia throughout the 1800s

And so on.

Anti-Semitism has been going on for a millenium or more. It is serious. And it’s becoming bigger in the UK right now.

Criticising Israel

This of course doesn’t mean that someone can’t criticise Israel - indeed, in my opinion, we all should criticise the Israeli government. Its crimes against the Palestinians are horrific.

But it’s important to notice who you’re agreeing with and standing alongside when you do this.

When I criticise Jeremy Corbyn (who I helped elect as leader of the Labour party), or Ken Livingstone (who I think was a really good Mayor on the whole), I’m criticising people who I have time for, and share some common ground with.

Too often it feels like people on the left are unwilling to criticise other people in their own tribe.

And other people don’t criticise this for another reason - that they aren’t too bothered about other people, they just want to shine a light on this critical issue of the Israeli government’s crimes against the Palestinian people.

But what does that say, if you’re willing to stand alongside anti-Semites and Holocaust deniers? What does that say to the Jewish people in the UK?

It’s possible and commendable to criticise the Israeli government. Just make sure you’re paying attention to how you do it.

#labour #antisemitism

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comicteaparty · 5 years

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February 14th, 2019 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party chat that occurred on February 14th, 2019, from 5PM - 7PM PST. The chat focused on Earth in a Pocket by Jabbage.

Featured Comment:

Chat:

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- THURSDAY BOOK CLUB START!

Good evening, everyone~! This week’s Thursday Book Club is officially beginning! Today we are discussing Earth in a Pocket by Jabbage~! (http://earthinapocket.spiderforest.com/)

Remember that Thursday discussions are completely freeform! However, every 30 minutes I will drop in OPTIONAL discussion questions in case you’d like a bit of a prompt. If you miss out on one of these prompts, you can find them pinned for the chat’s duration. Additionally, remember that while constructive criticism is allowed, our focus is fun and respectfully appreciating the comic. All that said, let’s begin!

QUESTION 1. What is your favorite scene in the comic so far and why?

perhaps not a full scene, but im really fond of this page in general http://earthinapocket.spiderforest.com/comic/2019/01/22 where the socio economic development stuff is broken down. theres just something so elegantly simple about how its shown. not to mention i appreciate the injection of humor, because i think it makes everything really grounded.

Delphina

The badger page is perennially endearing (http://earthinapocket.spiderforest.com/comic/2018/08/11), but I also like the most recent one where Little One is encouraging Halisi to be proactive and set up some long-term solutions for herself: http://earthinapocket.spiderforest.com/comic/2019/02/05

RebelVampire

im really curious why she thought of badgers at all. unless she had the badgers badgers mushroom song stuck in her head. XD

Delphina

@Jabbage please make that canon

Jabbage

makes it so

(Hi! I'm going to be here for a little while! :D)

RebelVampire

thanks for coming, Jabbage!

Jabbage

I figure that if you're on a road trip with a small child who is prone to ask a billion questions, eventually you're going to end up talking about badgers

Delphina

I just really appreciate how even after all she's been through, Halisi still has so much love and passion for her studies, and it's what she reaches to when she's looking for ways to console Little One and solutions for herself.

Kabocha

Hmmm, my favorite scene probably was the Witch bottle explanation http://earthinapocket.spiderforest.com/comic/2018/08/15 It was a good bit of information I hadn't really been aware of :D I also just... enjoy her interactions with the little jellyfish - even though she's in a bad spot, she's still taking time to tell him stories.

RebelVampire

i like the element of logic there is to it too. like she's not panicking, but using what she loves to calm herself down in a way. and i think thats a really great showcase of her character without needing to be told shes like that.

its a characterization via the action versus the telling

mathtans

Here for now, the little one seems extra fussy tonight. Yes, I call my baby daughter the little one. So comic was a bit surreal.

RebelVampire

hi math!

at least your little one isnt old enough to ask yet "are we there yet?"

Kabocha

Right? I mean, she could have just given in, accepted that she might die here... But nah. And she's still kind, even though this entire situation is awful

mathtans

The Witch bottle thing reminds me, I liked the way the art moved through the centuries on that one page, but with people who looked kinda similar. I thought that was clever.

True. Little one could save us some time by specifying what her issues are though. ^.^

RebelVampire

ironically though another of my favorite scenes is the one where halisi sets up the signal and kind of ditches her new jellyfish child to just go despairingly collapse in front of it. i like this brief moment of her giving into despair cause theres something really raw about it. like at first she doesnt say anything even, and i think it makes it really powerful because the silence just adds this immense weight to the sorrow. you know shes super suffering for that moment and feeling the weight of everything finally hit her.

Delphina

Yeah, the comic does a good job of showing a lot of conflicting emotions(edited)

mathtans

Yeah, honestly the very opening was a heck of a kick in the pants. Like, I have no idea what I'd do in that sort of situation. It's very problematic.

RebelVampire

yeah theres def a lot of stressful situations. but i kind of appreciate the lighter moments. like her trying to start a fire but ultimately failing. i mean its kind of scary and sad for her survival, but the way its handled is still pretty funny

also that moment where shes trying to fix the machine at the beginning and it just flat out basically bursts into flames XD

Jabbage

I'm pleased to hear that! I'm always aware that it could be quite a bleak story, but I want it to ultimately feel hopeful and positive, so the silly moments are important for that!

kayotics

I also liked the badger scene, but I think the scene that had the most prominence for me is when she finds out that someone else landed on the planet 80 years ago

i think that scene really set in how dire her situation is

khkddn

the portrayal of emotions really is great. it's really interesting to see someone going through such a crisis and only surrounded by beings who can't relate at all

Delphina

Oh god yeah, and the aliens just going "Something happened to the human we don't know what cause death isn't a thing that happens here???" was scary.

kayotics

"it's hibernating!"

G (Title Unrelated)

I felt something in the scene right after where they tell her dad "we haven't heard from her yet"

Delphina

collective tentacle shrug

kayotics

yeah i really feel for her dad

this isn't a scene, but I appreciate that all of the characters are middle-aged or older

RebelVampire

agreed. but i appreciated the realism of the ppl on the other line being like "meh its probably fine my dude" to the dad. cause that really uses reader knowledge to an advantage to create sympathy for him. because we know its not fine, and that he is right to worry. and that makes it sad hes the only one worried in that moment.

G (Title Unrelated)

Yes I agree

kayotics

Also agreed. It's a good example of dramatic irony

RebelVampire

although i like the most recent page with the followup where hes basically enlisted an army of students to find her. abuse of power, probably. but makes him the sweetest dad? yes.

QUESTION 2. Much of the comic revolves around Halisi telling stories based on things in her pocket. Which of Halisi’s stories impacted you the most and/or taught you something new? What do you think is to be gained from Halisi telling these stories to an alien race with no real connection to humanity? How do you believe the stories and knowledge she has might help contextualize her current situation for her? What, to you, does it mean to have “Earth in a Pocket?” Further, if you were in Halisi’s position, what objects would you pick in 10 seconds to represent the sum of human existence? Lastly, what other cultural or past history aspects do you think Halisi might bring up? How might they be contextualized to add a new viewpoint to Halisi’s situation?

Delphina

I liked the Dancing Plague story a lot http://earthinapocket.spiderforest.com/comic/2018/08/06

RebelVampire

this is the point where i say the witch bottle scene. I think it was beautifully illustrated, and as a story it was not a cultural thing i was aware of. but i like how suitable and unsuitable it was for the situation. but overall it just made me think about humans are weird and can make fear out of nothing at all if the minds decide it to be so.

unless the plot twist is there really was a witch in that bottle

ive always found the dancing plague fascinating because again, humans be weird. minds play tricks.

khkddn

the witch bottle scene is kind of like a story about the power of storytelling, pretty fitting i think

the idea of a witch meant so much to people, like how halisi's stories mean so much to the jellies

G (Title Unrelated)

so she's got a single seed, too, which is also super symbolic

kayotics

I really like the agriculture story, because, like it was mentioned before, it was very concise, but also it shows a lot about Halsi's personality and what she thinks is important about understanding humans on a basic level

mathtans

Back. Know what you can't do when you have a little one? Have a life sometimes. >.<(edited)

G (Title Unrelated)

I wonder what kind of seed it is

RebelVampire

oh man what if the seed wasnt even food. like she winds up growing a rose bush or something XD

mathtans

I was going to say, one of my fave moments was actually comedy, when Halisi first goes off with the inhabitants, thinking about ditching them, and they're all "we can see the thoughts".

RebelVampire

i appreciate the jellyfish didnt just ditch her at that point. cause i would not be as forgiving as them XD

mathtans

And yeah, the hope and sudden crash of the human who was there before was powerful too.

Delphina

I hope it's like... a nice fruit tree. She seems like she could use a nice fruit tree.

mathtans

The framing of the witch bottle scene was cool too. With the whole "not helping me be less afraid" thing (and asking for that term).

kayotics

i just really like the little jellyfish aliens, because they're written in a way that's much less human-centric. I like aliens that are just kind of weird for being weird and don't follow human conventions.

mathtans

Though props for the "pot-reon" in the agriculture bit too.

RebelVampire

yeah im really appreciating the jellyfish for that reason. theyre a nice blend between humanistic traits while still being super alien. its always nice to see when theres kind of a basic gap of understanding where the way each species thinks is quite different

anyway, for me personally though, while she does literally have some of earth in her pocket, i think earth is more about the stories that have traveled with her. because oral traditions reach immensely far back and is the main platform by which we teach and learn about ourselves as a species. so imo they are more representative of humanity than the objects. thus how she can fit earth in a pocket, even though she doesnt need the pocket.(edited)

G (Title Unrelated)

Yeah, I think you nailed it!

mathtans

Also, random question/thought. Halisi didn't have to dig too deep to get "well" water (I liked that one too)... yet was able to bury a guy? The water must be specific to locations or something?

Agreed on the alien-ness people have been speaking about.

G (Title Unrelated)

I mean it's an alien planet

mathtans

Good point about the traditions, Rebel. She's her own pocket.

It helps that she mostly just has to think things rather than even speak them aloud too.

Jabbage

AHAHA yeah, I realised that after drawing it. It's on a list of things i might tweak one day, although I do also like the idea that it is just an alien planet and it's strange and unpredictable like that. So much of our own planet would seem strange and random if we didn't understand a little bit about it's geology, the water cycle etc.

kayotics

on that note i like the idea of halsi going around trying to find ground that doesn't immediately fill up with well water

"okay let's try this spot. Hm, nope, that filled up. can't bury him here"

G (Title Unrelated)

haha!

RebelVampire

yeah it didnt particularly stick out to me just cause i wrote it off as like a change in elevation or something like that. but basically alien planet does alien things XD

mathtans

Fair point.

Could just drag dirt over from another place too, though I guess it would be raised more then.

kayotics

I think if it needs to be tweaked in the future, Jabbage, you could always just change it to a mound rather than a hole. same concept but it avoids going below the dirt

mathtans

Fixes the w"hole" thing.

G (Title Unrelated)

also digging a hole IS hard work

Jabbage

Yeah, or using rocks

kayotics

digging is a lot of work

mathtans

Also whistling while you use rocks, to get rock music.

I'll stop.

kayotics

if she plants that seed she may have to make a mound for that too, it would probably get too waterlogged otherwise

mathtans

I wonder if the soil has the right nutrients.

RebelVampire

yeah i was thinking that too

that her next challenge is finding a not well spot for that seed

cause unless its a crop that specifically needs to be waterlogged, shes gonna have a bad time

mathtans

The jellyfish said the mushrooms could talk, right? Maybe they know a place.

Does rice have seeds?

G (Title Unrelated)

I think if the planet has breathable air it might have a similar balance of elements and whatnot to earth?

kayotics

i think most rice is planted from splitting an existing plant, but i'm sure there's a seed that starts it all

Delphina

What do the jelly aliens taste like

kayotics

DELPHIE NO

Delphina

MAYBE THEY GROW BACK OR SOMETHING

Jabbage

Whether or not the mushrooms can talk is a fun thing that's not really ever going to get expanded on, but which I had in mind for how the jellies work. I figure that they don't have many ways of getting external sensory information about the world - no eyes, ears, sense of smell etc. They are psychic though, they share thoughts and ideas and information about the world. I figure that the mushrooms have some kind of consciousness and run through the planet, and the jellies can draw from that somehow to orientate themselves and know what's going on

G (Title Unrelated)

that's what I kinda assumed!

I mean, that is basically how forests work on earth. XD

RebelVampire

so basically the mushrooms can function as gps

Jabbage

@Delphina ~ I mean I'm sure Big One has some spare limbs... ~(edited)

mathtans

Oh, wow. Cannibalism-like issue didn't occur to me.

Jabbage

Me neither honestly

mathtans

I think the jelly was a bit broken and said she'd regenerate over time...?

RebelVampire

QUESTION 3. Story wise, the comic deals with Halisi crash landing on an alien planet and all but being stranded. Do you believe Halisi will learn to farm with the little she managed to salvage and find a way to survive? What obstacles might prevent such an excursion on the planet? How will Halisi deal with the obstacles? Further, how do you think Halisi will deal with managing her mysterious illness, and what is she sick with for that matter? How might her actions be hindered or helped by the native alien life? In what ways do you think her actions will change how the alien life lives their own lives? Finally, do you believe that Halisi will be rescued at some point? If so, how will this come about?

mathtans

I like the mushroom consciousness idea.

RebelVampire

i do think the jelly child said as such.

G (Title Unrelated)

Q3: These are... all questions I have, myself. XD

mathtans

That illness thing is probably the immediate concern. Withdrawal itself is an issue, whether the pills were life saving or not

G (Title Unrelated)

I was wondering if they were antidepressants or something

RebelVampire

yeah for all the optimism in this plan, the pills are gonna be problematic. but i did wonder if they were antidepressants

khkddn

the flashback scene after she takes her last pill makes it seem to me like she was waiting for medical test results

kayotics

it's also a future time, so it could be a pill that prevents a life threatening disease from spreading.

mathtans

That's a good thought. The whole not accomplishing anything in her life is pretty bleak. Maybe that's a symptom.

G (Title Unrelated)

oh I didn't realize that scene was about her somehow

kayotics

my hope is that she's rescued well before she even needs to worry about this single plant producing any viable food options, since even if the plant grows, it's not likely going to sustain her

G (Title Unrelated)

yeah exactly

RebelVampire

not to mention depending on what plant it is it could take forever to grow. plant growth really varies a lot from crop to crop

kayotics

as for the pills, it seems like her illness has a vague timeline. Like a degenerative disease or something cancerous.

G (Title Unrelated)

P.s., I want some rainbow space maize.

RebelVampire

yes i second this

rainbow space maize for everyone

mathtans

It's a maize-ing.

khkddn

a few pages after she takes the pill she wonders "why are red pills better stimulants" and the pill she took was red. but then again if it were antidepressants i would expect a flashback that looked more like a therapists office than a doctor with results

Jabbage

Oh gosh I don't want to interrupt all the amazing discussion about Halisi's mysterious malady but I was so pleased to find out that there's actually multicoloured corn like that

I thought I made it up for a gag but it's reaaaaaal

kayotics

i have the link, if you'd like it

khkddn

oh i love the corn page

kayotics

https://www.sciencealert.com/this-rainbow-corn-is-the-coolest-way-to-eat-your-veggies (rainbow corn)

mathtans

It wasn't too corny.

kayotics

Honestly? corn, rice, and wheat would all be things I'd say should be brought to an earth colony.

G (Title Unrelated)

yeassssst. XD

unless there's naturally occurring yeast.

Man, we don't even know what it would be like to visit another living planet

RebelVampire

if we have rainbow corn, clearly were meant to go into space right now.

thats a good catch with the red pill, @khkddn

i actually hadnt paid attention to the pill color

mathtans

As to the question of Halisi being rescued, I foresee two possible outcomes. First, that she's found still alive, and she's learned enough about the planet natives to further space research or something, or second, that she's found dead, but the natives were so taken by her stories that her name will live on forever in the history books of first contact.

G (Title Unrelated)

I didn't associate the pill color musing with her situation but maybe it IS related!

RebelVampire

though i leave it open shes on some sort of mental health related medicine, i do feel its more likely its a degenrative disease of some sort. cause it makes her wanting to go to space make more sense. cause i feel its one of those things where youd be more willing to do it if you knew that you had a shorter time than most to live

math no, that second one is too dark

although not implausible

khkddn

if halisi is not reunited with her dad at some point i'll be so sad

or at least they speak to each other

Delphina

Yeah, I'm just gonna say I don't think Halisi's gonna make it back to Earth. I think we're probably looking at a "she finds peace and purpose with the remaining time she has" situation.

RebelVampire

im gonna believe in the rescue efforts cause her dad seems to be a determined dude. and tbf they probably know her flight path so unless she was super duper off course they can probably guess a reasonable area she might be.

mathtans

I don't know that it's necessarily dark... it's kind of a happy end, just not for Halisi.

Also, maybe the pills help her speak. But that's a thing she won't need with the jellys.

I do think that receiving a message from an 80 year old spacecraft is probably something worth investigating.

RebelVampire

thatd be mighty convenient. tho in some au shed get so used to the psychic stuff shed go back to live among humans and be like "oh shit thats right they cant just see my mind pictures"

mathtans

That's an interesting point, about readapating to civilization.

Crazy theory time: Eating the mushrooms constantly ends up turning her into a jelly-creature. When the humans arrive, they won't recognize her.

RebelVampire

i do think shell have some affect on the jellies though. cause i think at the very least shes gonna teach them the important of oral traditions and theyll start telling their own stories and collectively grow as a species. i think shes really setting the jellies on the path for this.

LOL

i was thinking earlier about what if the mushrooms are semi psychic cause thats what happens to the jellies when they die

they dont die and just come back as the mushrooms

mathtans

Ooooh, that'd be an interesting twist.

Like maybe Halisi gains some psychic powers too.

(Though we may have ended up back at cannibalism...)

G (Title Unrelated)

not to shoot down anyone's fun speculation, but it doesn't seem like that kind of story, tbh. XD

kayotics

haha

we don't even know if the jellies can die i mean, I'd think they would, since they apparently come into existence somehow

mathtans

Also they haven't overrun the world.

kayotics

maybe theyre very slow at growing

or they just become the water

G (Title Unrelated)

slow-growing seems very likely

mathtans

I figure before they die they just kind of stop transmitting. Maybe run off somewhere. So no one is aware.

(Maybe they're like lemmings?)

G (Title Unrelated)

(that is not how lemmings work, sorry. XD)

mathtans

(I would worry if lemmings could read my thoughts.)

G (Title Unrelated)

(the suicidal lemmings myth was created by disney)

mathtans

shakes fist at mouse

G (Title Unrelated)

(or did you mean something else lol)

mathtans

I free associate. I mean what you want me to mean.

RebelVampire

yeah ive been wondering if the jellies are immortal. although ya know what, we have immortal jellyfish on earth so thats not that ridiculous to imagine.

kayotics

man, jellyfish are messed up

mathtans

There can be only one! hands out swords

kayotics

i can only imagine that the Jellies in earth in a pocket feel the same too. I was able to touch the bell of a couple at an aquarium once and man, that was a weird feeling

G (Title Unrelated)

I've been watching PBS Eons on youtube, I wonder if they've done one about the origins of cnidarians yet...

RebelVampire

honestly im putting money on immortal just cause they didnt even know what death was. unless they do die and just dont understand the hibernating jellies are never coming back

QUESTION 4. One topic resounding throughout the comic is humanity connecting to the past while also embracing the future and expanding. In what ways do you think reconnecting with humanity’s origins have changed Halisi on a personal level? How might they continue to change her? Why do you think Halisi so strongly believes in bringing the past to humans as humanity expands into space? In what ways do you think she’ll think it will help humanity as a whole? How might Halisi’s experiences on this new alien planet change the way she thinks about humanity’s past? How might it change how she conveys humanity’s past to other humans? Overall, what do you believe the story has to show us in regards to balancing the past, the future, and why both are needed?

G (Title Unrelated)

immortal jellies make for a good contrast to Halisi's fears of her own mortality

mathtans

They can be injured though, like the one who had a thing fall on it. It'd suck to be immortal that way.

RebelVampire

that is true. and contrasts like that are good.

Jabbage

(imma point out, Little One also notes that they're going to get better one day, although Halisi is a bit incredulous about that)

mathtans

The connecting to the past thing makes me think of that society. Which didn't seem to have a lot of members. Also, it took them, what, ten years to decide on things? (I was amused by "say that to my face" because, um, I think that's what the person is doing.)

Delphina

Totally saying, if I had a bunch of tentacle arms that would grow back and my weird human buddy was dying, I'd let her eat a couple to survive.

G (Title Unrelated)

I assume their tentacles don't have stingers. XD

RebelVampire

for me itd depend on how fast theyd grow back. cause if i had to spend like 500 years waiting for tentacle arms to grow back, that doesnt sound pleasant

mathtans

If so, they must have turned the stingers off to crawl around on her.

RebelVampire

they probably wouldnt have stingers cause their planet seems peaceful. like none of the jellies are like "oh no predators who will destroy us" so theres no need for their evolutionary track to lead to stingers in so far as i can see

kayotics

in response to the question: There's a lot of parallels to humans expanding to other planets and our own planet's history of colonization. There's a lot of cultural pain that comes with leaving your home and leaving your country (whether by force or by choice), and reconnecting to that cultural heritage is something that decedents often go through to feel like they belong in the world. I can see that being a driving point for delivering some of these artifacts to other planets.

G (Title Unrelated)

IRL Jellies mostly use their stings for catching prey?(edited)

Delphina

Do we even know if they feel pain?

mathtans

Wait, do they eat?

khkddn

they seem to have difficulty understanding when a human is unhappy or feels pain

kayotics

they might not need to eat in the same way

they might just kind of absorb what they need

Jabbage

I'm not sure it's going to come up specifically, but I think they probably dont' feel pain like we feel it? Just because i don't think they have the same sensory capabilities. Little One is frustrated that they can't move around as fast as the others, but I don't think they're in pain as such

G (Title Unrelated)

yeah. I was thinking about the Question and I think... it's interesting how it's framed as this thing where they've decided the colonists NEED this, but like, they can't agree on what's actually important

mathtans

Maybe Halisi will make a tiny scooter for Little One.

G (Title Unrelated)

I think it's the stories, not the objects, that are important.

And like... All stories are important???

RebelVampire

i think that is true, that all stories are important. cause stories are subjective and whats personally important to one person isnt important to someone else

kayotics

i think a few cultural trinkets to go with the stories can help, like... like I remember being a kid and my family having a christmas wooden carousel from germany or something, which is where my family emigrated from, so it was like "oh that's my people" I think having something to connect to some of the stories is important.

RebelVampire

thus why its worth preserving them all and no agreeance is needed really. because any single story can have an affect on someone

Jabbage

@kayotics I really like your point about our history of colonization, and it's something that I've tried to be careful with and approach thoughtfully, because I think that IS a driving factor in Halisi wanting to share people's cultural heritage with them. One of the things that sparked this story is thinkign about how current issues with repatriating cultural objects and deciding who has control over them would translate into a world where we don't even all live on the same planet any more

Delphina

The beginning showed that humanity has VR technology to "experience Earth", but it's several very comfortable degrees apart. I like that normally, being so advanced would make the hardships of the very distant past feel less real (just vaguely amusing/educational) But having Halisi have to figure out how humans lived and survived kind of brings that back and grounds her in a way that establishing Cookie Cutter Terraform Colony Number 14792 wouldn't.(edited)

So in that sense, the physicality of it is important

RebelVampire

i do think @kayotics has a point. especially in this story because of that vr scene where they were touring the roman thing. cause its not like they dont already have stories and ways to view historical things. and the actual objects can really tie that together. but i also think the stories are just as important via the scene where theyre shown to be able to print 3d objects. in essence the object means nothing without the story, but the story is made more powerful by the object. its a symbiotic relationship in a way.

kayotics

I'm glad it's something you've thought about!

I can't help but think about how colonization has affected the planets that the humans have landed on, and how it'll effect the planet that Halisi has landed on as well, no matter how small.

G (Title Unrelated)

I was thinking about that, too!

mathtans

Maybe she'll want it purged from the records to preserve it. And since Dad was just using grad students, he can oblige.

Jabbage

I thought long and hard about what race to make my astronaut because when they were a random white academic, the whole thing had a very different feel. Landing on some planet and educating the rather silly native denizens. I also wanted someone who grew up around the earliest archaeology created by anatomically modern humans so it made sense to make her black and from South Africa anyway

but then I'm white and British and so... yeah, I've basically had a lot to think about and juggle on that one

mathtans

Jabbage: Well, damn. I hadn't considered that, but you make a good point.

At least she's not building churches and asking the jellys to worship.

Incidentally, speaking of growing up, I liked the flashback image with her and dad looking youthful.(edited)

RebelVampire

im interested in the idea of who has control over the cultural objects we deem important, especially in regards to technology. because the comic touched on it a bit with the 3d printing and it really starts getting into the ship of Theseus issues of identity for those objects

mathtans

"Fax me your statue. No, I'm not paying you for it, I'll display it on Planet X for the Xposure."

Jabbage

And is seeing a reproduction ever 'the same?;

Even if it's identical in every way?

mathtans

Probably not, which is why they haven't figured out teleporters.

kayotics

if it's identical in every way i feel like maybe it is the same

but... wait maybe not

mathtans

Just to sum, pretty grand scale for this one, and a powerful beginning. Here's to Halisi and the Jellies.

Sounds like a strange band name.

RebelVampire

see its a really interesting philosophical question to explore. is whether cultural significance relies on the exact object or if we can transfer that as humanity spreads into the stars

mathtans

(I wonder if we'll learn more about jelly civilization.)

G (Title Unrelated)

Also, what stories do we remember or forget...

kayotics

I feel like there's something to be said about the energy that we as humans put into things. Like there's something there in the reverence we give something. like when you see a giant statue that's been prayed to vs a huge statue to commemorate someone, those have different feelings.

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- THURSDAY BOOK CLUB END!

Sadly, this wraps up this week’s Thursday Book Club chat for now. Thank you so much to everyone for reading and joining us! We want to give a special thank you to Jabbage, as well, for making Earth in a Pocket. If you liked the comic, make sure to support Jabbage’s efforts however you’re able to~!

Read and Comment: http://earthinapocket.spiderforest.com/

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