#like sure maybe we could argue that the fire nation in LoK is a lot better but also the Fire Nation is like…never talked about in LoK

[shadelorde]

Why do so many people unironically think the Fire Nation is the misogyny-less “girlboss” nation. What the fuck.

[thebad---catholic]

Why I don’t think Azula should’ve gotten a healing/redemption arc

k so I made this meme a couple weeks ago

and I got a lot (a lot? Like 10 but that’s a lot for me) responses disagreeing with my post, which is fair because there’s really only a tiny subset of fans who fit into the “if you stan villains you’re a bad person” category, and Azula’s character (like most other things in atla) is fairly nuanced. I won’t dive into her personal psychology so much, just why I was satisfied with her arc as a viewer.

Note: I’m only speaking within the context of Atla. I haven’t read any of the comics or seen Lok so for the sake of this lil post those don’t exist.

Not enough time

Plain and simple, Azula didn’t have enough time for any sort of healing or redemption. She would’ve needed at least 2 seasons based on what Zuko went through. Adding more seasons for this purpose would feel kind of pointless. Maybe they should’ve explored this in other media but not within atla as the story works best as a tidy three season bit.

Along this same vein, I’m not viewing the show the same way as I would irl. If we’re being realistic, Azula was a horribly abused mentally ill 14 year old who most definitely should’ve gotten treatment. But this is a cartoon, where standards are a little different, which I’ll talk more about in a minute.

Iroh used to be a bad person/If Zuko changed so could she

This one is more complicated for me, but basically I view it like this. In the show, Iroh and Zuko display goodness before their redemption.

We see this with Zuko especially. He is banished for trying to protect the lives of fire nation soldiers from certain death. Twice he spares the life of his rival Zhao, even after that rival tried to kill him. In season two, he saves appa, risks blowing his cover to light lanterns for Jin, saves a town from mercenaries, and even when he’s robbing, he spares certain people (the pregnant woman for example) and mostly targets the wealthy. Zuko, even at his worst, had hard limits on his morality.

Iroh is more subtle. The most clear example comes from the flashback in “Zuko Alone” where Iroh gifts Zuko a dagger from the earth kingdom that he notes is of superior craftsmanship. This, to me, shows where the start of Iroh’s arc comes from: his appreciation of the other nations. It’s been noted before that Iroh has also mastered all four elements, even though he can only firebend. Redirecting lightning comes from waterbenders- likely learned before Iroh “turned good”. Even as their adversary, Iroh respects the people of Ba Sing Se for their resilience. (This again contrasts Zhao, who was so deranged he murdered the fucking moon just to win.) Finally, the dragons. Iroh is known as the dragon of the west even to people from Ba Sing Se- this means that he spared the lives of the final dragons before Lu Tens death. Like Zuko, Iroh shows mercy even when on the wrong side. Lu Ten’s death breaks Iroh because it forces him to finally come to terms with the fact that the fire nation is built on a lie. Fire nation superiority is a lie, and it’s one he’s known for a long time.

Azula doesn’t display any of these traits. The only time in the entire series where she apologizes is after she insults Ty Lee, and I’d argue it was an act of manipulation, as she quickly uses the apology to receive praise from Ty Lee. The beach episode is the only soft side we ever see to Azula, and all of her interactions can still be interpreted like my example. Was the comment about Ursa thinking she was a monster a slip of her mask or an attempt to “perform” like the others? We know Azula is a liar, so was she lying when she said ursa was right, or that it still hurt? Or both? And, mind you, I do love how this episode explores azula more closely, but I don’t believe being a nuanced villain makes you a redeemable one. Even as a child, Azula is cruel and takes pleasure in hurting Zuko, and animals, and her friends. She’s a master manipulator who makes friends through fear and intimidation. Imo, the only reason she doesn’t actually kill someone is because Avatar was technically a kids show, though that sure as fuck didn’t stop her from threatening multiple peoples lives. There is no action of Azula that signifies an ounce of good in her.

She was abused

1) a tragic backstory isn’t the be all end all of whether or not a character’s redeemable, and 2) So was Zuko. And probably Iroh and Ozai, and probably Azulan. The fire nation royal family is fucked up. Even if Azulan was a “good” father to Ozai and Iroh he was still a dictator who was grooming them to take over.

Having Azula be a puppet in her fathers game was an incredibly mature route for atla to take. Once again, it adds depth with a realistic take for Azula’s villainy. Very rarely are individuals born evil (enter nature v nuture debate here). Some of the worst people to ever exist were victims of abuse and neglect to varying degrees. Once again, though, this doesn’t suddenly render Azula open to redemption. And from a storytelling perspective, there’s parallels between Ozai and Iroh and Azula and Zuko.

Ozai continued the cycle of abuse, Iroh broke free from it, Zuko ended it, and Azula was broken by it. These are all things that happen in real life.

She’s 14

Oddly enough this is the argument that baffles me the most. I know I just said a whole lot about real life vs fiction, but I’m gonna pull the fiction card on this one. I can suspend belief with these characters and their ages. I don’t think any 12 year old could function after waking up from a coma and finding out his entire people were slaughtered and that he only had like, six months to save the world, regardless of his upbringing and power set. I also don’t think any 14 year old could lead a trio to infiltrate a city state, outsmart the shadow leader of said city state, and manipulate and entire little army for her favor.

There’s just a point where you have to suspend belief. The characters of avatar are fantastic, but are not realistic portrayals of people in their age group. Azula could be 14 as easily as she could be 25 and nothing about the narrative would change. The same is true for the rest of the main characters- even Aang, as youthful and fun loving as he is, also has more emotional maturity than anyone in the gaang, and more than most adults i know. If you want a realistic example of a child working through trauma, try Lilo from Lilo and Stich. Not anyone from Atla

Not everyone needs a happy ending.

This is ultimately what it comes down to for me. I like Azula as a villain. I like Azula as a villain who stays a villain and who is driven insane by power and paranoia. I like Macbeth. Azula is a tragedy- and that’s what I like.

So there ya have it folks. That’s my take. I’m writing this at five am with very little sleep, so please forgive typos and whatnot. I feel like maybe I haven’t explained everything the way I wanted to, but I can’t stop thinking about this, and the great thing about this show is that it’s fun to keep thinking about.

[science-fiction-is-real]

Thoughts on Fire Lord Ozai

Every time I watch ATLA,  I appreciate Fire Lord Ozai more and more.

First of all i am 90% sure he was added to the show just as a treat for the moms forced to watch it with their children.  Dear god that body.  Flameo hotman.  What’s not to appreciate?

But as a character I started to understand the brilliance in his seemingly inane simplicity. 

The first time i watched the show I noticed that Fire Lord Ozai actually works as a villain.  He’s extremely scary.  I had nightmares about him when I saw the show for the first time.  I was 19 when I saw the show for the first time by the way.  The way he’s framed, the way they keep him in the shadows, the way the other characters react to him, Mark Hamill’s stunning charisma.  Like this is a scary motherfucker.

The second time i watched the show I noticed that Fire Lord Ozai is uhm... a few logs short of a bonfire.  He doesn’t have a backstory.  He doesn’t really have that many scenes or dialogue.  We don’t learn anything about his beliefs and values.  We don’t explore his relationships with the other characters in depth.  He kind of exists to look scary and throw his weight around.  And as a second time viewer this made me feel a bit cheated.

Legend of Korra after all had villains with clear beliefs and values.  They were humans first and villains second.  they had backstories.  They had arguments that were used to develop the story’s themes.  They weren’t exactly well-done characters.  The writing in LOK is uhm.  also a few logs short of a bonfire.  But they were at least interesting.

Ozai has pretty much no personality what soever.  He is as generic as cartoon villains could possibly get and still work as a story telling element.

The third time I watched the show, the fear and the disappointment had worn off, and I could appreciate this sexy sinner for who he really was.  Like, honestly what’s not to love.  All he needs is a toe-tapping musical number and he could easily fit among the ranks of any of Disney’s most entertaining baddies.

The CHARISMA.  

Dear lord.  The snark.

“Maybe he can teach you the ways of tea and failure.”  DAMN.

this motherfucker RIPS OFF HIS CLOTHES.  IN MID AIR.  AND THEN BURNS THE CLOTHES.  AFTER HE JUST GOT COORDINATED IN THOSE CLOTHES LIKE 20 MINUTES AGO.  NO.  FUCKS.  GIVEN.

He’s just having so much fun.  He loves his job so much.  I kind of want to be him, you know.

Or at least be one of his palace mistresses and get pregnant with his bastard child.

But none of these things really explain why Fire Lord Ozai as a fictional character created as a tool for telling a good story ascends to the level of brilliance.

Why is he brilliant? 

A lot of fans of the show are okay with the fact Ozai has the personality of a hamster with the fact that he does his job.

His job is to provide conflict for the characters to overcome, to raise stakes, to create tension.  That’s what villains are supposed to do, and Ozai gets it done with efficiency and effectiveness as if he were being payed to do it.

I like to argue that Ozai is not so much a character in his own right but more of a symbol.

Ozai is hyper masculine, solves problems with aggression when it really isn’t appropriate to do so, loves war, seeks power.  He basically is the embodiment of the Fire Nation cultural values that caused the nation to engage in a hundred years of senseless imperialism.  He was raised with those Fire Nation cultural values.  He adopts them in his own life in how he treats his children, and he leads his nation in acting them out when he assumes the throne.  He IS the Fire Nation.

I also think it’s worth noting that the imagery surrounding Ozai is unambiguously Satanic.  He has an ugly goat’s beard.  He wears red and black.  He sits on a throne surrounded by hell fire.  Contrast him with Aang, who is a devine entity that the world has been waiting for in hopes he will deliver them from evil, who is undoubtedly a Christ hero.  

But what I really love about Ozai, what really just gets my goat, and makes me laugh my ass off, is that he is REALISTIC.

Think about the people in the real world who cause pain and suffering to others.  Think about their “Tragic Back Stories.” You will find that a lot of the real world’s super villains, your Trumps, your Bezos, your Ted Cruzes and Kavenaghs, are normal ass dudes with normal ass up-bringings.

They weren’t beaten as kids.  They didn’t suffer unspeakable traumas.  And if they did suffer such fates, that isn’t what drove them to their villainy.  They chose villainy as a profession.  They worked hard for the opportunity to become villains because of the wealth, power, and prestige it would bring.  And they dress up their villainy with titles like “President, or Judge, or CEO.”

These assholes in real life are not Kuviras or Amons or Zaheers.  the are Ozais.  They are motivated by power and money.  Not ideology or perverted sense of duty or a need for revenge against the world.

Fire Lord Ozai is exactly the person you think he is.  He is the dumbest Jock in the entire school.  He has spent his whole life getting by on his good looks and his daddy’s money.  And due to the shear dumb luck of being born into a ridiculous amount of privilege, he was placed in command of a military superpower.

And you and I can name a lot of people in real life who are exactly like him.

And that, my good dudes, is why Fire Lord Ozai is brilliant.

[cody-hammond]

My rewrite of LoK: Book 1(Episodes 1 & 2)

@awesomechocolatesauce

So, I’m just gonna say, I like Legend of Korra. It wasn’t as grand as Last Airbender, and that’s fine! They’re two different ways to go about the universe, and that’s okay. The being said, there are a lot of things in LoK that don’t quite hit the mark as TLA did. So, for that, I’m going to go through what I would do differently for the series, Book by Book.Let’s start with Book 1!

Now, there’s actually not a whole lot I’d change about Book 1, as it’s actually my favorite of the series. I liked Republic City, I liked the story, and thought it was a good intro for “Korra.” However, there are some things I would change.

Episode 1: First, I would keep everything relatively the same in the beginning. We meet Korra, she knows 3/4 of the elements, we meet Tenzin, he tries to guide her towards spiritual enlightenment to help her master Air, she wants to go to Republic City but can’t, sneaks on board a ship, arrives, fights some thugs, meets Lin Bei-Fong, Korra’s able to stay in RC, has the press conference, and we meet Amon, finishing the episode. 

However, there is one underlying story for Korra, and that’s how she can hope to be as great, if not better, than Aang. After all, this 112 year-old boy did end a war that lasted 100 years, brought the 4 Nations together, and led everyone to a brighter future. Korra’s a capable fighter, sure, but her inability to master Air, or the spiritual side of Bending, greatly hinders her. 

Episode 2: Korra reads about the Pro-Bending matches in the paper, and desires to go and see one herself. Tenzin, of course, disagrees, telling her it’s a mockery of Bending, all flash no substance. Later, Korra fails at both meditation and the spinning fan training, argues with Tenzin once again about wanting to see a Pro-Bending match, sneaks into the Pro-Bending arena, and then meets Bolin! Now, here’s where we start to change a few things.

1. Bolin: Oh Bolin, poor, poor Bolin. I feel for him, I really do. He’s a character that just SCREAMS comic-relief. Which isn’t bad, mind you, but... I felt like he could’ve been more. The great thing about Sokka was that, even though he was comic-relief, he wasn’t the relief 100% of the time. He was smart, he was obnoxious, he was a brilliant strategist, he was a capable fighter without any bending powers, he was so many things! Bolin... I can’t think of anything about him other than he’s funny, and Mako’s brother. Which is why I would change his arc. He can still be comic-relief, sure, but make him have a purpose other than that. That’s why, in this version, Pro-Bending isn’t 3-on-3. Instead, it’s a classic 1-on-1, similar to boxing or MMA, or even the wrestling-style fight they had in “The Blind Bandit” in A:TLA. Bolin is a young up-and-comer, an underdog. He has his fans, but nowhere near enough to become a household name. 

After witnessing her first live Pro-Bending match, and Bolin’s scraped-by victory, Korra offers to train Bolin in exchange for learning a few tricks of her own, and shows him some Fire-Bending moves he could probably use to better fit the agile side of Pro-Bending, sort of like how Iroh taught Zuko lightning. 

The next day, after failing to pass through the spinning fan training Tenzin gives her a second time, and burning it down, Korra and he argue. Tenzin angrily asks what’s wrong with her, and Korra responds by saying there’s nothing wrong with her. She tries and tries to understand Air-Bending, but it doesn’t sink in, and maybe the reason is because he’s a terrible teacher.

Tenzin gets furious and says no matter how many times he tries to be patient, it’s clear the only thing she responds to is force, so he forces her to stay on Air Temple Island until her training is complete. Korra vehemently refuses, and says maybe she doesn’t need Air-Bending! Tenzin says, “That’s ludicrous, if all you care about is fighting, than you’re nothing more than a child throwing a temper-tantrum. Actually, wait, Aang was a child, but even he was doing better than you!” This causes Korra to leave, ignoring Tenzin’s call back.

At the Pro-Bending arena, she meets up with Bolin, preparing for a match. They do a little training to get ready, and we even get a little character development on Bolin wanting to be equal to his brother. “When people talk about me, it’s mostly as “Mako’s brother,” which honestly, kinda hurts. I love Mako, don’t get me wrong! But just being “Mako’s brother” isn’t good enough. That’s why I went to Pro-Bending, to win the tournament and make a name for myself, and show Republic City I’m something more... and a little training from Avatar Korra doesn’t hurt.” 

Bolin’s match is exciting, but nerve-racking. His opponent is tough, being a fellow Earth-Bender, but also rather vicious with his moves. Bolin tries his best to dodge and attack, but ends up losing Round 1, and doesn’t last long in Round 2. It’s in Round 3, where his opponent deliberately sends an Earth disk to his right arm, possibly breaking it. Bolin’s obviously in pain, and the Water-healers try their best, but it doesn’t look like he’s capable of continuing. This, at first, shatters Bolin, and he begs them to keep him in, saying he has to do this, even if it’s with one arm. When asked if he’s sure to compete, Bolin slowly makes his way up to his feet, broken arm and all, and says yes.

The final round is a nail-biter, but something seems different. The fans in the arena are cheering... for Bolin! With this new-found confidence, Bolin musters up a unique brand of offence, thanks to Korra, blending Earth and Fire-Bending moves that actually give him the win, and a spot in the Tournament! The fans go crazy!

Korra is elated, and goes down to the arena to celebrate. Bolin takes this time to thank everybody who cheered for him, but most of all, he wants to thank Korra, the Avatar, for her patience and training. The crowd cheers for both of them.

When they get back to the locker room, Korra starts healing Bolin’s arm, thanking Master Katara. Bolin than takes the time to properly thank Korra for showing him the Fire-Bending techniques, saying they really came in handy in the last round. Korra’s grateful, saying he did great out there, but Bolin still feels like he can’t live up to Mako. “Ever since we lost our parents, Mako’s been the one trying to find justice, to find the Fire-Bender that killed them and put him in prison. I admire that part of my brother, but the more I hear and read about Mako cracking down cases, putting away bad guys, and seeing him in the spotlight, I can’t help but feel left behind. I mean, I’m a Pro-Bending rookie. I know I can’t make it as a detective, but I believe I can at least bring a smile to the people of Republic City.” Korra tells him, “You shouldn’t compare your success to Mako’s. You has to make your own, and you can do that by winning the Championship Tournament, and no matter what, your parents would’ve been proud of you.” They have a bonding moment, and Korra leaves.

Later that night, Korra returns to Air Temple Island, where the spinning fans are being rebuilt. Tenzin is there, and Korra takes this time to apologize. She realizes she was impatient, and frustrated at herself, and took it out on him. Tenzin also apologizes, in trying to teach her patience, he lost his. No hard feelings between them, and if she’d like, they can go and see a Pro-Bending match together soon, maybe see her new student? Korra asks what he means, and Tenzin tells her he heard Bolin’s speech on the radio.

Finally, the spinning fans are complete, and Korra offers to give it one more shot. 

She succeeds, ending Episode 2.

(It might not be much, but I hope it’s, at least, interesting. I was going to add episode 3 on here, but that part ended up being pretty long XD So that’s for another time)

[seyaryminamoto]

Who do you think are the most overrated characters in ATLA?

What a controversial question xD Well, probably under the cut, for the best.

DISCLAIMER: if you adore any of the characters on this list, this is NOT an attempt to attack you or your peers, merely criticism on how the fandom behaves regarding certain characters.

Undeniably, the #1 overrated character is Iroh. A lot of people give him much more credit than he’s due, and he’s much more problematic than he seems on first sight. No doubt he has his fair share of good points, but he is far from perfect and he definitely isn’t the soul of the show for me, despite it seems he is for a lot of people. Proof of how overrated he is? His mere reappearance in LOK made people who had dropped the show return to it just because of him. Because SOMEHOW Iroh being there makes it all better.Truth is, no, it doesn’t make LOK all better. But how to argue with people who adore Iroh and refuse to see his faults?Iroh is not all wisdom, and he’s definitely not infallible. He’s also not the strongest firebender ever, sorry not sorry to burst that bubble but it’s a fact. Iroh was very questionable at many points in the show, and his relationship with his family is very complicated to say the least. Assuming he’s the only pure and good person in the Fire Nation Royal Family just because he was nice to Zuko is one of the fandom’s biggest mistakes and one of my biggest gripes with this character’s interpretations. Not because Bryke decided to sanctify him in LOK, and make him the franchise’s most enlightened character of all, does it mean he really was that perfect. A genuine analysis of who he is and what he did during ATLA can prove as much. So… Iroh is very overrated. Very. I’m certainly interested in hearing about his past, as any fan would be, but I do think there are far more important things the show and comics should deal with than expanding on Iroh’s life. People who would rather hear about his past than about the grown-up lives of the Gaang (… or about Azula’s uncertain future) really baffle me as Iroh’s endgame is clearly what the show gave us. Do we really need to know more about his past than we need to know about everyone else’s futures? I’d like to know more about his past, as I said, but it is far from a priority for me compared to every other main character on the show. 

Zuko would be my #2, of course, only because Iroh’s fans tend to be louder and more annoying when you get them going. But the constant praise to Zuko’s development, and ESPECIALLY the praise to his extremely flawed redemption that still leaves a ton of room for him to improve, and that also made him worse in many ways, makes me roll my eyes more often than not. That recent viral tweet about him getting the best redemption arc in the history of TV makes me wonder how much TV did that person watch at all. If Zuko’s the best redemption TV can do, I guess we’re really facing a terrible time for television shows.Mainly, Zuko is overrated because, just as Iroh, he’s credited for a ton of things that aren’t true. There’s a lot of problems with his character that go unaddressed, and a lot of people are happy to describe him with a lot of praising adjectives that I have no idea what relation they could possibly have with his character. Proof of the messed-up understanding fans have of Zuko can be found easily in fanfiction: have you ever wondered why Zuko’s characterization varies so drastically from fic to fic? Whether fics trying to portray him in a good light or in a bad one, more often than not it feels like people are portraying him as who they think he should be, and not who he really is. Having a grasp on his character is difficult, way more difficult than many people believe, but it’s on great measure because of how hard so many people have it to actually see his flaws for what they are.I am not saying loving Zuko is a terrible thing, it isn’t, but some people love and praise the idea of him, and not who he really is. Careful, less biased inspection of his character can reveal he leaves a lot to be desired for a man who changed his ways and became the ruler that would bring peace to a nation he hardly knows or understands. His character development is a rollercoaster, and that’s mainly because of how deeply flawed he is: but you ask the fandom and he’s a cinnamon roll who never did anything wrong, or at least, whose every misdeed can and should be blamed on everyone but him. Because he is perfect, and so is his character arc. So, overrated, or misunderstood character? Hell knows, but the fandom really has turned me off Zuko’s character altogether.

The third most overrated character would be Toph, who, for all her great traits, often gets praised as a fully rounded character when, uh… to put it bluntly, out of the five top-billed Gaang members, Toph is the one who evolved the least. Her growth was exclusively about developing more bending skills, about becoming a stronger fighter, but she has some serious personality flaws that are never explored the way they should be. She barely ever faces consequences for her wrongdoings, which are often framed as funny, and when she’s in the middle of serious conflicts, she is absolutely never in the wrong, just as it is with her every conflict with Katara. In the end… she barely grows in anything but power level. Yet you look around and find a ton of people praising her as the greatest character of the franchise. While I see the appeal, and in her case I like her a lot better as a character than either Iroh or Zuko, I also think she’s not given a chance by the story to actually grow, and that stunted her as a character. Which doesn’t seem to bother anyone because she’s praised for anything and everything to no end. I appreciate her comic relief moments, the message she gives in regards of disabilities, but the show could have made better use of her character and didn’t, and nobody really seems to notice or care.

This one’s going to get me stoned I’m sure (if the first ones didn’t already :’DDDD) but my #4 goes to Kyoshi. Yep. You read that right.Kyoshi is no doubt a hardass, I’ve seen a ton of people praising her as the greatest Avatar of all. There’s a million Chuck Norris-esque memes with her, presenting her as the most unstoppable force in the Avatarverse, and you see people everywhere dissing Avatars like Kuruk, for being so lazy, or Roku, for not being decisive, blah blah blah, and saying she’s awesome for being 100% the opposite of that.What these funny people fail to notice, or maybe they simply don’t know the Avatarverse’s timeline, is that Kyoshi allowed Chin the Conqueror to take over the entire Earth Kingdom and only made a move against him to save HER island. She didn’t act until then, allowing Chin to take over whatever the hell he wanted to take during his rebellion, which, as far as I know, was practically the entire continent, with only Kyoshi Island and Ba Sing Se as exceptions.And the whole thing to help the Earth King to deal with the Earth Kingdom’s problems, by creating the Dai Li for his protection? It happened AFTER Chin died, she didn’t even do this to save Ba Sing Se from him because this is posterior to Chin’s mad quest. She did NOT act to protect the Earth Kingdom from a raving, rising tyrant until it affected herdirectly, and didn’t involve herself with the politics of HER OWN NATION until after they had boiled over and the Earth King had a peasant revolt in his hands. If she couldn’t be bothered to move to save her own people until the last moment, what guarantees that she did anything to help anyone else? How is she that great an Avatar?Sure, people think that, since she actually got involved in worldly events no matter how late she did, she was better than Roku or Kuruk. But in Kuruk’s favor he apparently had no war to deal with, and his wife’s loss is an unexpected tragedy for him. Roku actually kept Sozin at bay for years, and Sozin only dared act openly with his conquest of the world once Roku was out of the way. Kyoshi had a major war brewing in her nation and her best idea to deal with it was to split off her island so she wouldn’t have anything more to do with it. Because a separatist mentality is the best way to handle your Avatar duties (the greatest illusion is the illusion of separation, anyone?). Seriously, if Chin had been standing just a bit futher back? If he hadn’t fallen to his death? He probably would have taken Ba Sing Se later anyways and Kyoshi would’ve been chilling in her village until she noticed that the Earth King was dead. Oops.Long story short, Kyoshi is considered way too great for the reality of her actions and decisions. The fandom’s concept on her duty as an Avatar is absurdly messed up, and as cool as her character design is, as great as her displays of power were, she was actually a pretty bad Avatar if you get objective about what she allowed Chin to do for so long. So in my very humble opinion, the fandom’s circlejerk around her is more than undeserved.

I was planning on making this a top 5, but tbh I don’t think anyone else gets acclaim to the extreme in the way these four do. Everyone else seems to have a more moderate fanbase, or at least enough detractors that the people who praise them don’t come off as loud and annoying as they do for these four. 

I’m not saying loving any of them is wrong, but there’s such abundance of praise for them, often for things they never even did, let alone for values they never represented, and yet they get interpreted by the fandom in whichever way the fans decide they like best. And somehow, the fanon interpretations grow more popular than what’s really there… which is truly annoying because these characters are fine the way the show actually portrayed them. They’re flawed, they make mistakes, their actions can be judged, they’re far from perfect: yet the fandom would have you believe otherwise.

[redrobin-detective]

Not trying to get into the shipping war but I didn't get into Avatar TLA fandom until post S2 and it had never occured to me to ship Katara/Zuko. They were enemies who fought over Aang. They had the worst relationship w/each other until post TSR ep (which for a number of reasons I thought was the most anti romantic Zuko/Katara ep that also pushed why Aang was more compatible). I personally find their platonic dynamic, be it as enemies or friends, much more fascinating/better for each other.

(Just want to take a moment to say thank you anon, I’ve been looking for an opportunity to rant about Zutara when I see this in my ask. Thank you for giving me the chance to rant about something that’s bothered me for 10 years)

People are allowed to ship what they want, I can’t stop them and I generally don’t care but Zutara has bugged me since I decided to watch ATLA (the Day of Black Sun was the first live episode I watched). If you like Zutara, go ahead and please enjoy it. I strongly dislike it and I’m going to explain why. If you don’t want to see it, don’t read under the cut. I will be discussing why I dislike Zutara and why I support Maiko and Kataang (with caveats).

I think Zutara was the first, really big ship I encountered in fandom. I was blown away by how mean and intense some people were into shipping fictional characters (still am tbh). This is also probably the first real time I was exposed to the ‘Opposites Attract’ trope of shipping which. I. Utterly. Despise. Everyone was all 'oh fire and water, opposites coming together in love uwu’ and I’m like ??? Even 13 year old me who’s terrible with people and was still icked out by the idea of guys knew that opposites attract is a complete fallacy in a relationship.

People don’t fall in love with their opposite! Or maybe they feel strong attraction but to have a stable, respectful relationship you simply can’t work with someone who you can’t find common ground with. Now I know this isn’t completely true even as I type this, there are exceptions to everything but in most cases, opposites don’t work for romance. Let’s also kill the 'Oh these people hate each other, it must be sexual tension’ trope while we’re at it. Sometimes you just gotta let people hate each other.

You may argue that Katara and Zuko aren’t complete opposites and I would agree, they actually have a decent amount in common. The main problem I see with them is their complimentary traits don’t suit each other and as a couple they wouldn’t achieve a healthy, happy relationship.

- Both Katara and Zuko have unresolved anger relating to their childhoods and respective traumas. We see in TSR that Zuko is trying to reach out to her by feeding her anger and Katara very nearly does something she would have regretted later, something opposed to her basic traits while Zuko is having his father’s teaching on hatred and revenge justified to an extent. This is not a healthy thing.

- Both Katara and Zuko are compassionate and protective almost to the point of jealousy and rage. Again, that sort of personality wouldn’t promote respect but become confining. Zuko has shown that he struggles with romantic jealousy (though most of that incident was born out self-hatred, it’s still there just better controlled) and Katara has a desire to mother and protect. Those two instinct would war with each and make the relationship troubled from the start.

- Both Katara and Zuko are fiercely loyal to their people. I have never been more confused than I was by a text post saying Zutara should have been endgame because Katara “wouldn’t have had her cultural identity erased to become Aang’s baby momma” like??? Aang, for all his faults, loved Katara as she was and she maintained her Water Tribe roots even as his wife. If Katara married Zuko, she’d have been Fire Lady, loyal to the Fire Nation first and forced to live in a Palace. Katara would HATE that level of confinement and while she mightbe better with the Fire Nation now, I doubt she’d be totally cool spending the restof her life amongst the people who murdered her Mother.

Not tomention the whole animosity they had literally throughout the entire series. Ofcourse, Zuko proved himself in TSR but I don’t think Katara really accepted himuntil Sozin’s Comet. And before you cry your tears about how Zuko saved Katarafrom Azula’s lightening, I’m 100% certain given Zuko’s character that he wouldhave done that for anyone. Azula knows her brother is softhearted and we’veseen Zuko protect literal strangers when he didn’t need to. That could havebeen Old Man Li and Azula would have shot that lightening and Zuko would havethrown his stupid ass in the way.

I can see Katara and Zuko growing to begood, close friends. Because we all have those friends that we care and rely onbecause they’re different from us,think differently and bring something unique. Zuko probably relied on Katarafor counsel, advice on how to be a kind but strong ruler while Katara wouldseek him out on political manners and how best to handle Aang. Zuko is a partof the Gaang, now and forever more, he and Katara are the mature ones of thegroup, there to bring order and peace and pave the way for the new world. Butas a romantic couple, they’re simply not complementary in personality andlifestyle to have a truly happy relationship.

Whichbrings me, briefly I promise, to the relationships the two characters are in:Maiko and Kataang. I love Maiko, it’s my favorite of the ATLA ships (aside fromSokki) because I feel they do work and complement each other. I’ll start by gettingthis right out of the way; yes it’s kind of ridiculous that Mai and Zuko hadthat cute lil kiddie crush and then, 5 minutes after Zuko’s back in the FireLord’s favor, Mai makes a move. I’d have preferred if they showed more build-upto the relationship but I guess there wasn’t enough time. But I don’t get allthese accusations of Maiko being abusive. Becauselet me tell you, just because someone messes up in a relationship, makes amistake for the right reasons, that does not mean they’re abusive.

To me, Maiand Zuko are products of the same environment: emotionally stunting/abusive,rigid, accepting nothing less than perfection but they handled it differently.Zuko chose to become angry and emotional over his circumstances (I thinkbecause it’s the only way he could fuel his bending) and Mai chose to bury herfeelings. Healthy? No, Realistic? Yes. Mai liked Zuko because he was genuinelynice guy, he was expressive and open when no one else around her was andencouraged her to be more open. Zuko liked Mai because she was cool and calmbut also a bit nurturing when he needed someone to soothe his flames.

Twodamaged kids helping to repair each other’s faults, what’s better than that?Mai makes mistakes with Zuko, she doesn’t know how to handle his troubles in the Fire Nation and, frankly, she couldn’t. Zuko needed that time to self-reflect and understand that what was happening was wrong. Zuko likewise behaved badly in a few episodes when his anger and self-hatred were making him explode. They both worked through this to improve like, gee, a normal healthy relationship.

Plus Mai would make a good Fire Lady. The Fire Nation needed stability afterthe war and Mai was nothing if not stable. She comes from a good, noble family(to soothe traditionalists) and she’s experienced in keeping firebenderscontrolled (for those worried about Zuko’s youth) and experienced in the waysof the world like Zuko so he can bounce ideas off of her and have her give backa more well-rounded perspective. It’s not perfect but when the series endedthey were 16/15, they have time to learn and grow together. (also I’m ignoringthe comics after The Promise because everything after has sucked)

Kataang I’ma lot less invested in but I can still understand it. Like Zuko and Mai, Aangand Katara have a lot in common and provide a good balance for one another.They really bring out the best in each other, Aang’s encouragements and naturalcheer brighten Katara’s inner sadness/anger and Katara gives Aang a sense oflove and purpose while also gently nudging him the way he needs to go. Peoplecomplain that Kataang was pushed from the start and it was, but man if Aangdoesn’t love the hell out of Katara. He respects her and relies on her andadores her but is still able to push back when she’s out of line. My main thingwith Kataang, which will eventually resolve itself, is the ages. Aang is 12when he’s freed from the iceberg, Katara 14. Aang’s love was a kiddie puppycrush on a calming maternal figure which made me feel a bit icky during the finalepisode.

Because earlyAang did love Katara but he also needed her as a guide and a mother figurewhile Katara was nurturing Aang and making sure he’s safe and happy when hereally needed to be facing the consequences of some of his actions. I see whythe characters did what they did but it makes a romance then kind of ug. I’dhave preferred if the series ended with hints and then skipped to LOK where wesee they married and junk. Because given a few years, I can see Aang and Katarabeing a good healthy couple (with no *shudders* sweeties to be seen).

Aang has just changed the world, he needstime to settle himself as the Avatar and to help Zuko and other leaders repairthe damage done by the 100 year war. Katara needs to figure out what she’sgoing to do, go home? Travel? A romance isn’t advised, especially since they’reso young. But when they’re a few years older, Aang is more mature and iswilling to see Katara as a partner and not someone to mother him and Kataragrows into her potential and decides what she wants, yeah then they’d be happy.

TL;DR: Istrongly dislike Zutara (along with the ‘opposites attract’ and ‘animosity =sexual tension’ tropes it embodies) because it’s not a healthy, compatible shipwhile the canon ships: Maiko and Kataang are much more in line with thecharacters and their goals and have the chance to be long-lasting and happy.