#liz debunks the sr theory

[bluerosesburnblue]

#entire kh1 personality was just her trying to mimic riku because that's what she assumed that sora would like so that he didn't leave her' Wait, seriously? I heard about the Kairi doc but didn't bother to read it, but saw people swear up and down the idea behind thinking that Kairi was copying Riku was about "trauma causing her to supress her real personality and pretending to be like Riku because he seems so confident in himself", but THAT'S what the doc says? Of course it's all about invalidating Sora and Kairi's relationship.

Yeaaaaaaaahhhhh one of my SRT debunk followers sent it to me recently so I skimmed it. And to be clear, I can only really identify one shared contributor between the Kairi doc and the SRT (though it's possible that some of them changed Twitter handles and I do recognize the lead writer of the doc as a major fan of the SRT)

Not to do a full breakdown of it (the actual content is only about 80 pages, but it's 80 pages of nonsense that kinda pissed me off so...), but the general premise that the document follows is:

Kairi fears change and losing her friends as they grow older. Valid observation, and they do back this up with a quote from Nomura stating as much. They assume that she was likely traumatized by Xehanort sending her to Destiny Islands and probably latched onto the first person who was nice to her, Sora. Somewhat valid, but they ignore the fact that Sora and Riku are implied to have met her together as far as the games have shown

Where they totally lose me is when they start claiming that child Kairi was hyper-conscious of the "special" bond between Sora and Riku, so she started acting like Riku to get close to Sora. Here's the actual quote from the document from that part:

During that time, it must have become clear to her (without her realizing it of course) that the dynamic between her and Sora was different from Sora and Riku’s. We can imagine Sora acted differently with her than he did with Riku, although he himself wouldn’t notice. We can also add onto that and think Riku didn’t interact with Kairi often unless Sora was with her. So maybe, as an effort to be closer to Sora, Kairi started acting like Riku.

It wouldn’t be completely out of the question. Kids are rather impressionable. Whatever they see from other people or on TV, they’ll think to copy those exact behaviors. They also don’t like to lose things, whether it be toys, trinkets, or friends. As we said before, Sora was probably the first kid around Kairi’s age to be kind to her with no strings attached.

[...]

Thus, it is safe to say that she would do everything in her power to keep that feeling. So, when she noticed the difference between how Sora treated her and Riku, she must have thought if she acted like Riku, she could keep that feeling of familiarity.

They then go on to state that in Sora and Riku's absence between KH1 and KH2 that Kairi started copying Selphie's femininity to "fill the void in her heart," and then at some point between KH2 and KH3, she realized that copying Riku wasn't working so she started copying Sora. This is proven by the color of her outfit, you see, as in KH1 it was purple, which is close to Riku's blue and the opposite of his yellow, while in KH2 on it's now pink to show her shifting closer to Sora

And then, because they are literally incapable of helping themselves, they go on to talk about how Sora's reaction to the paopu scene is proof that he doesn't reciprocate Kairi's affections and has moved on from when he drew the paopu in the cave

With this reaction, we can assume this is the confirmation to Kairi that yes, things have changed between them, and Sora doesn’t hold those feelings anymore. This is why she downplayed the sharing as just a good luck charm so they wouldn’t be separated again. This is most likely her way of attempting to rebuild their connection, but it wasn’t enough; it still hadn’t fully sunken in yet. Even though she downplayed the sharing, she genuinely hoped it would make sure they’re never apart physically despite Sora being content with being apart from her.

I mocked this very concept when I saw one of them mention it on Twitter during the SRT heyday so I'm not going to go in-depth, but they don't even really do anything with it in the analysis? They vaguely connect it to Kairi's fear of change, but then there's no conclusion to what we're supposed to see that they believe this means for Kairi's character. It's shoddy writing. Like, any high school writing class is going to tell you that the end of your "chapter" in the essay needs a solidly-stated conclusion

And then they end it off by looking at Melody of Memory and where they think it's going to go from there. Namely that by becoming Aqua's student she's going to finally become proactive and "give herself the identity she’s been lacking for most of the series."

So, overall, it shows a notable lack of understanding of both actual canonically established facts and Kairi's character as a whole AND it just can't help shoving the S*R*ku bias in there (to the point where one of the contributors' ONLY LISTED CONTRIBUTION was shipping it). I did not consider it worth the read, I don't recommend that others read it (please, just let it fizzle out) but I'm still linking it at the top just to properly source it and so that anyone can check it out if the morbid curiosity takes them

But, obviously, if people are getting the wrong impression of what's in there, like you, anon, then I'm compelled to set the record straight

[whatiwillsay]

I like reading your blog because it’s so open to different ideas. You also made me a believer that kaylor is no longer. But is there somewhere that tells me pretty much who her albums are about? Like on red you said the sad songs are Emily and the happy songs are Dianna. Who do you think lover, folklore and evermore are about? I know it ain’t joe. Also I can’t follow the old blogs like SR because they are so dead set that the baby is Taylor and Karlies and I just find it hard to believe that. The baby might not be JKs but I feel sure it’s not Taylor’s either.

hi babe i'm glad you enjoy this blog 🥰

there's no one masterpost including who all the songs are about because 1 that's hundreds of songs there's not enough room on one post for all that lol but 2 we don't know who all her songs are about. i put my best guesses on my podcast episodes about the subject here, here, and here and on countless episodes of the patreon (check the analysis tag) and you can read my dianna analysis on the songs about dianna tag and other analyses on the analysis tag though my opinions are subject to change.

i do want to clear up I've never said songs on red are about emily 1. because i don't believe in taymily it would have been an illegal relationship in which taylor was abused and insiders went to the be there in 5 podcast and debunked it. and 2. even if taymily were a thing (which it wasn't) then red would have come out something like 5 years after it ended. taylor would have been through several other relationships by that point. red is IMO mostly about jake Gyllenhaal, a real relationship (i got good tea about it being real), and possibly a bit about julianne hough + other muses. imo taylor is bisexual and has both male and female muses. in @swiftgronmasterpost i also made the case that some of red could be about liz huett. red is definitely not about emily (the only song at all i think is about emily is breathe which is a song about losing a friend and ofc not on red. emily is fully a republican prosecuter in Indiana and would have been raping taylor if they had been together so i beg y'all to let that one go)

I'm also confused as to how you are so certain taylor doesn't have any songs about joe as I'm pretty sure they're in a real relationship. i think a good bit of rep and lover and folkmore are about him. taylor's just bi IMO. not that crazy to think that.

i also think it's a bit odd you don't think karlie's husband isn't the father of her child... if he isn't who is? it's definitely his child lol they even named it after his grandfather and he's literally raising the baby and with it and karlie always. they just bought a new swanky apartment in NYC to live together in, had date night to kim k's snl set... and that's ok! that doesn't mean kaylor never happened in some fashion! it doesn't mean taylor's not queer! it doesn't mean there aren't songs about women! it doesn't mean we don't get to have fun discussing gaylor theories and gossip! same goes for joe being real and music being about him. it doesn't matter! we still get to have fun here AND we get to operate in reality.

taylor swift either is a fruit or is ok with people speculating she's a fruit. we'll always get to have fun in this space discussing her body of work and place in pop culture through that lens ❤️

[bluerosesburnblue]

What were some of the pros and cons of debunking the srt? As in interaction within the greater kingdom hearts fandom.

Hm... to be honest I'm not sure that it effected the greater Kingdom Hearts fandom at all? Like, sure, SOME people read it and enjoyed it, but KH has a huge fandom and outside of the small circle I'm in, I don't think people were aware of the debunk. If they were, maybe people would stop talking about the Realm of Sleep as if it was a real thing

From my own experience, I think the pros are:

I had a lot of people come into my inbox while I was doing it thanking me for speaking up against a theory that they could tell was wrong but was either too popular for them to be comfortable speaking against or that they just didn't have the words to refute. So in a way, I definitely made some people a little more comfortable in the fandom at the height of the theory's popularity

That, or I made an observation that helped recontextualize or clarify something from the games that gave other people an "aha!" moment. I had quite a few of those messages, too

My researched actually helped me understand certain parts of KH more clearly, so I'd say that was a plus

It definitely helped me refine my argumentation style

Cons, though?

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: of all of the anon hate that I've ever gotten on Tumblr, only ONE message wasn't SRT related. Salty SRT fans sent so much anon hate, and I definitely didn't publish all of it. And I'm not gonna lie... the whole thing left me really bitter towards a lot of the KH fandom, and I think I'm still a bit bitter about it

It's hard for me to interact with KH sometimes without thinking about it. About how fast the theory spread despite the misinformation in it and how aggressive some people got when I pointed it out. And, like, sure. Not everyone's like that. I met some nice people through the debunk

But I can't move away from it, either. It's what most of my followers came for. I try doing original stuff, barely gets any reception. I don't mind being the KH analysis person or discussing lore. I love lore discussions! But... like... I don't go seeking the discourse stuff out, yet people send it over anyway to get my take on it because I'm the "SRT Debunk person." I debate lore about a totally different game, get a DM that the person I was responding to was worried I was about to go full SRT Debunk on them. I guess I'm just worried that it's all I'm ever going to be on here. That crazy girl who wasted so much time debunking a KH fan theory

And in the back of my mind, I'm always worried it's going to happen again when new KH content comes out. I hate it. I hate the fact that something I loved keeps getting so tainted in my mind because I got annoyed at a video I had playing in the background while I drew one night that read the theory out loud and decided to comment on it

TLDR; I don't think that the debunk was good for my mental health, and it sure as hell never reached the popularity that the actual theory did so I doubt it did much for the fandom in general. But, I'm glad that enough people liked it enough to follow me and keep following me this whole time and I hope it made their KH experience better even if it didn't help mine as much as it hurt it

[bluerosesburnblue]

Hello, I just followed you and read through your SRT debunk. There was one question I'd like to ask. In the debunk, which was written before Re:Mind, you said Sora brought 6 people back using the PoW, and Re:Mind confirms that. My question is, didn't he bring back 7 people (Riku, Aqua, Ven, Mickey, Donald, Goofy and Lea). Some people are taking this as Sora not remembering he brought back Riku after hearing the number in Re:Mind, but you think that the number was 6 from the start. Could you please explain this, I'm really lost.

Well... I can't speak for canon saying it's six, but for me I just... can't count. I'm very bad at basic arithmetic. Not to mention that I constantly forget that Lea was involved in that sequence in the first place because no one else from his trio was there. Nothing really that special about it, just me constantly forgetting that Lea was even a character in KH3 and screwing up some basic numbers

So, I mean, hey. Maybe Sora made the same mistake I did? After all...

[oveliagirlhaditright]

Actually, it was my dear friend Liz/@bluerosesburnblue​, who did the Sleeping Realm Theory debunk. And what a wonderful job she did:) A blessing to the fandom, to be sure! https://bluerosesburnblue.tumblr.com/tagged/liz-debunks-the-sr-theory/chrono

What is the "srt" thing that keeps being mentioned on the kh fandom? Is the sleeping realm theory? If it's that I want to know what is about but I found a 350 pages document (wtf) so I was wondering if "srt" was the same as this theory and what is it about (like the general idea) Thank you in advance for your answer!

Hi !

Yep, the ''srt'' is indeed the sleeping realm theory. And it's indeed the 350 pages document. We agree, it's too long, it's a damn novel. (And spoilers : it's fictional too.)

My memory is a little rusty, the theory was released a month after KH3's release (and the same day of the KH3's Ultimania. Who finished discredit the theory, but it doesn't have much ground to stand on in the first place.) The theory is extrapoling little details in KH3.

(I'm going to censor character's name so they don't appear in the tags)

So, basically there was a KH3 we didn't see where So/ra and co traveled to the Disney words (but some things didn't happened like the KH3 we saw, more on that bellow), and then they arrived at the Keyblade Graveyard, and everyone died (like in the game), but the theory said that Ri/ku's sacrifice send So/ra (and everyone) into the sleeping realm, where they lived the game we know. And so that the Xeh/ano/rt we defeat at the end of the game is a fake.

It sounds a little far fetched, right ? Also the details they used (that I remember, about the things that changed between the ''real'' KH3 and the ''dream'' one), like in Arendelle, So/ra feel when Elsa strikes Anna with her magic ? The theory say it's because in the original thing, it's So/ra who's been hit by Elsa's magic.

But most of all, it's a sor*ku theory. (Perhaps you have seens people saying ''Ri/ku is the light'' ? It comes from here). (Even if they have refuted multiple time that the theory is biased : it is a sor*ku theory)

It has been written BEFORE KH3 was released, with the trailers (they didn't write 350 pages in one month, even tho it has been written by multiples person), and it pushes down Kai/ri's role. That she's a Chir/ithy. And she's also watery Darkside at the beginning of the game. It doesn't make any sense.

It's just erasing Kai/ri out of the narrative and putting Ri/ku's in her place, basically.

It's a mess, and it's first of the long list of bullshit theory that have been released after KH3 (and ReMind, later). But it's the more popular one, because for a time after it's release people were like ''🤔'', and sharing it a lot, before realizing it doesn't much ground to stand on.

(I'll recognize the works that have been done for creating the theory, and that 350 pages aren't nothing. But what's inside.. It's just extrapoling)

I remember that someone did multiple posts about debunking the theory, if you are interested.. I remember it was a friend of @oveliagirlhaditright who did it but I can't remember the exact @, sorry 😅. (Sorry to @ you Shanna, but can you help me with this ?)

To finish, I'd say that I don't know if the fandom in general has been traumatized by the multiple plot twist in the series, but sometimes, people search too much, and then extrapolate little things to create bigger things. Yes, Nomura has done it before, but most of the time it's... just why are you doing this to yourself ? About that, the man himself said in a interview not so long ago that he thought the fandom search too much with their theories (or something like this.)

I hope this helped you !

[bluerosesburnblue]

You guys are all way too nice, holy shit. Seriously, I’m flattered that you all sent such nice messages my way and that some of you really benefited from the SRT debunk. Really, when I listed out the pros and cons, there was a reason the top two pros were that I got a lot of messages like some of these and I am, genuinely, glad that it helped a lot of people be more comfortable in the KH fandom. The only reason I bothered to do it all the way until the end was because I knew that some people really needed it as a safe space in the fandom at the time

That said, I think some of you kiiiiiind of missed the point I was trying to make (in the nicest way possible, you’re all very sweet). I don’t regret the good that came out of the SRT debunk. I am, however, also aware that projects like that tend to bring out my more competitive and bitter argumentative side, which I’m not proud of and I’m trying hard not to feed into unless I have to. That, and I’m now more acutely aware than ever of how polarizing and aggressive the fandom can be. I still adore Kingdom Hearts (some recent plot decisions notwithstanding) and I doubt that’s going to change or that I’m going to stop talking about it altogether, but the fandom drama exhausts me and I’m the type of person who feels compelled to get involved to set things straight. So if I get involved, I get into an argument that frustrates and exhausts me. If I don’t, I get stuck in a headspace where I’m constantly repeating the arguments that I would have made on repeat because my dumb anxiety brain wants validation that it’s a good argument. The easiest way to avoid that is to just stay away from the greater fandom

Which can be really difficult to do when I have this little precedent set up that I am, apparently, pretty good at arguing against fandom bullshit and a lot of people want me to “go full SRT” on things that bother them. But if someone sends me stuff and I don’t respond, I feel guilty. You see how that all builds up?

And it’s not like I’m going to stop doing other, original stuff either. But you have to understand that it takes effort for me to make posts on it, and if nobody shows that they care about those posts then I’m simply going to stop sharing. What’s the point of going out of my way to write 45 pages worth of an AU summary if half of the people who asked to see it don’t even look at it, and the other half don’t tell me what they think of it? Now, am I going to stop making the AU for myself? Hell no. But I’m not going to shout about it on here if precedent shows that no one’s going to listen. Creators and even debaters thrive on response, on that interaction. Lack of reception indicates that no one cares and I’m not going to waste my time sharing if the one thing that I’m looking for when I post, that interaction with the ideas I’m putting out, isn’t going to be there

You guys know you can just... talk to me about things, right? I would kill for half of the passion that I got for being bitter about the SRT to go towards pretty much anything else that I do. Seriously, ask me about my original projects and OCs. Talk to me about other fandoms besides KH! Kingdom Hearts isn’t the only thing that I’m interested in, and I’m sure plenty of you have other shared interests with me. If you see me mention a series that you’ve never heard of but you’re curious, you can talk to me about that, too! You think I won’t ramble on forever explaining why I like that thing?

I reblog my own content to try and get extra attention and I’m lucky if it gets three notes, I try to promote my buddy’s stream that I guest starred on and nobody shows up, but the second that I so much as mention in the tags of someone else’s post that I read a document that was SRT adjacent, suddenly now my inbox is blowing up with people who want to talk about it and the SRT again after being mostly dead for a while. You see what kind of message that sends me?

Doing the SRT debunk got me pigeonholed as a KH Discourse/Lore Discussion person, but I’m a lot more than that. That’s the real issue here. Not that I regret doing the debunk and don’t think that doing it was the right thing, but that whenever I try to move on from the view of me that people got during it and try to be something more, nobody feels like talking anymore. So, really, yes I’m so glad that you enjoyed the SRT debunk. But it’s also been almost two years since I finished it and yet I’m still just “the SRT debunk person” to a lot of people even when I don’t bring it up on my own at all. So, please, can we all just move on a little from it? I know that’s what most of you first came for, but that’s not all I am

[bluerosesburnblue]

Would you say that the new Sora/Kairi art sinks the Sleeping Worlds theory?

The theory sinks itself because it can’t even be internally consistent for two minutes

But no, not really. Because let’s not forget that they “rewrote” (and by that I mean hastily tacked an addendum onto) the Kairi section that completely negates the entire part about her and Sora not sharing the Paopu because she’s in his heart. And even in the section on the Paopu they couldn’t keep it straight whether she didn’t do it, or she did as Xehanort’s pawn

Even worse is the fact that they tend to act like if any part of the theory’s correct, then they “called it,” which is just nonsense. If every part of your deduction is proven false except for the conclusion, then you’re not smart, you’re just a lucky idiot

Like, it really doesn’t disprove the theory because the theory states that she both ate and did not eat the Paopu. Which just goes to show how impossibly poorly structured the theory is and why it can’t even have been true before this image came out. Theory was sunk a long time ago

[bluerosesburnblue]

I’m answering like this because I want to avoid making call outs, anon. And also because the particular SRT writer you mentioned isn’t the only one of them acting like that. Just from a cursory glance after seeing this message, it’s several of them

I’ve mentioned extremely biased things I’ve seen on their Twitter accounts before, so this isn’t at all surprising. I’ve never fully trusted that they were arguing in good faith, but treating their arguments like, at the very least, they thought that they were representing things 100% to the letter was the only way that I was willing to comment on the SRT

They’re just so convinced that Re:Mind is gonna be the one that confirms their ship. Just like KH3 was, right? But we already know that Re:Mind is about Sora saving Kairi with shades of “everyone looking for Sora” (and I do mean everyone, since Aqua’s line seems to indicate that). Where do they think they’re going to put their ship confirmation in there? A brief segment of a moment when Sora connects to Riku’s heart? A line from Riku after Sora disappears? There’s, like, no part of this DLC where they’re likely to be physically anywhere near each other from what I’ve seen so far

But what do you expect from a group of people who call anyone who disagrees with them “dudebros” (wasn’t aware I was a guy) and who are certain that #notmysora is going to start trending once the DLC comes out and confirms S*R*ku

I don’t check their Twitter accounts often. Or at all, really. Just makes me sad because all any of them post about is their ship and while I can’t know for sure if it’s true, it really does seem like that’s the only thing in the entire franchise that they care about and if a certain piece of the franchise isn’t catering to that, then the next ones definitely will because their ship is, absolutely, the only thing that matters

And if it’s their favorite thing in the series, fine, but they need to stop belittling people who enjoy the games for different reasons

The character whose reaction to Sora disappearing I’m most interested in seeing is Roxas because after having Roxas grow to despise Sora and the fact that he has to disappear for Sora to live, then slowly grow to accept Sora as not only an equal but a better, and then Sora shoots that down, establishes a brotherhood between them and does his best to find a workaround where they could both be alive together... having Sora disappear just after Roxas is revived is like the universe spitting in their face. There can only be one of you. And I want to see what Roxas thinks of that. If he’ll accept that. How hard he’ll fight for his “brother”

Because my favorite thing is the surrogate siblings in KH. The ships are completely unimportant to me. And to throw all of the interesting stuff out like KHUx’s murder mystery, the lore of destiny and the universe, Xehanort’s story... all for a ship? It just seems like they don’t really see the games for what they are anymore. And I wonder how many updates are going to have to be released before they finally realize that the series isn’t what they want it to be and either leave, disappointed, or adapt to and appreciate parts of what we do get

[bluerosesburnblue]

What's your take on the 'Cherished Person' vs 'Strength to Protect' what matters debacle?

Oh, you know, I never did bring up the full argument, did I?

The SRT writers aren’t wrong (technically) with their translations of how Riku's line evolves. “Daiji” DOES mean important/relevant and and “taisetsu” DOES mean cherished. But in all of the Japanese references I’ve found, the two are considered interchangeable

Taisetsu is not an "upgrade" in importance over daiji. Rather, the distinction is that taisetsu denotes EMOTIONAL importance (subjective, based on the individual saying it's opinion) and daiji denotes objective importance. So Riku’s line essentially evolves from "the things that are important" to"the things that are important TO ME, emotionally.”

In KH3, he shows an emotional attachment to what he's trying to protect that he didn't have as a child. The distinction is really that, as a kid, he's doing it because he thinks it's the right thing to do, while as an adult he's doing it because he genuinely cares about what he's protecting.And again, like I brought up several times in the debunk, Japanese doesn't have plurals. "Hito" can be either a singular "person" or plural "persons" depending on the context. So their fan translator isn't technically wrong, they translated it literally. But without Nomura's input and the translation team's notes, we can't say for certain what the intended singular/plural nature of that line is. Especially since in both prior iterations of Riku's promise, he uses "mono," which is ALWAYS translated in the English version as "things," plural

To me, it feels like the actual progression of his line is "I want to protect things that are important because it's right," > "I want to protect things that I find to be important" > "I want to protect the people I care about." There's no reason to assume that the "hito" in his final promise is singular when every other iteration has had the subject be plural. A fan translator's notes are not valid if you're arguing semantics. You cannot argue cross-language semantics because semantics are different between languages. Each has their own rules that don’t hold true for other languages. Fan translations can give you the gist of something, but you can't use them as evidence when what you're arguing is whether something is plural or not. The only people who can make those calls are the creators, which means that whatever they put in the official translation of the game takes precedence over a fan's translation to me

That being said, there’s no reason to completely write off any single language’s version of a scene. You can learn a lot about what was intended just by comparing what changed, a lot of times due to one version having a cultural connotation that doesn’t exist in the other, and what stayed the same. The difference in “importance” doesn’t exist in English, but the plural becomes more obvious. Ultimately, I think the English team did a pretty good job of translating the overall meaning and tone of things, and that Riku’s line of “strength to protect what matters” works just fine

[bluerosesburnblue]

I found your SRT debunk and I am /so/ grateful- I heard about it when it came out and immediately didn't like it, both for what I could tell was the really blatant Sor*ku bias and the Kairi stuff, and most importantly the way the writers, despite calling it a 'theory' acted like this was Actually What Happened In Canon, We Cracked The Code. That made me really uncomfortable, and I'm glad you went through it all so thoroughly! It REALLY doesn't make any sense when you look close at it.

Ah, agreed, the attitude of the writers is honestly one of the worst parts about everything surrounding this theory. To them it’s like it’s already proven (despite the fact that, like... it hinges on a mechanic that does not exist in-universe and has since been refuted by a canon source...)

I never expected people to be so grateful when I started this but I’m so glad that people like you found it and it made you that much happier! I just want people to start feeling comfortable in the fandom again without the kind of vitriol surrounding this document getting in the way of a story that makes them genuinely happy

[bluerosesburnblue]

Something I find incredibly funny is any time I see the sleeping realm theory as srt, I read it as Soriku Theory.

I... I didn’t even think about that but YOU’RE SO FUCKING RIGHT???

I was just using the abbreviation that some of the creators and fans were using but... holy shit

And it helps that “Sleeping Realm” is not actually a term in KH. It doesn’t exist. It’s never said like that. The phrase only exists in relation to the theory. The only place that abbreviation is relevant is the theory

[bluerosesburnblue]

Doesn’t the last ReMind trailer practically debunk the dream sequence timeline from the SRT? Because if Sora is out literally retracing history again, how does that allude to there being a drop between the timeline? Am I missing something?

You’re saying this like there’s ever been anything in KH3 alluding to a second timeline other than the rewritten part of the Graveyard that wasn’t extremely circumstantial

Though I don’t know if this particular Re:Mind trailer disproved anything. They could argue that the timeline is as they proposed (Timeline 1 > Dream Repeat of Timeline 1 in Timeline 2 > Timeline 2 Proper beginning from the reset in the Keyblade Graveyard) and just tack this on at the end, repeating just that last segment, after they exit the dream, a second time and I wouldn’t have any way to refute that at the moment based on speculation from the trailer

But it sure doesn’t corroborate their claim of a dummy dream timeline. At best it’s another convoluted repetition of events that they’d have to add to their preexisting timeline, but it in no way proves the timeline they already proposed

[bluerosesburnblue]

Thank you for your debunk of SRT! I'm was so disappointed in its contents and I'm so glad someone was able to word out what I was feeling. Honestly, I really disliked that theory because of Kairi and Riku's treatment there. It reminds me of the Harry Potter movies where Hermione was so glorified and Ron flanderized. Riku is so praised in the SRT and Kairi treated so horribly. While I appreciate fan theories, I just really don't like that some people treat this theory as Nomura's "secret plan".

You guys are all so sweet! Thank you <3

That’s actually a very good analogy for how the theory treats the characters. Just like Steve Kloves’s favoritism of Hermione led to her getting more important roles and having some of Ron’s actions from the book attributed to her in the movies, making him look worse in the process, the SRT writers did the same with their love of Riku, having him take credit for things that Kairi did just to make him look better

And the whole “secret plan” thing... I dunno why they can’t just say “It’s a theory!” and have to pass it off like it’s basically already proven

As if anyone can correctly guess what Nomura’s gonna do, you know?

[bluerosesburnblue]

Ok so because my brain won't let me sleep I kinda want your thoughts about this: Page 272 of the SRT implies that the Power of Waking led Sora to Riku. On that same page is the summary of the chapter in question, which states that a Door was involved. Watching the actual cutscene gave me this: The Master's Defender transforming the secret place door into a Door to the Realm of Darkness, and Sora telling Riku after he saved him that the key was the reason he's there. Is my line of thinking right?

That’s what I got there, too

Like, I think the SRT writers have every right to call out the fact that the journal says that dark corridors and the power of waking are the only way in, but that specific entry contradicts other things that we’ve seen throughout the series that are mentioned in the scene prior. The Door to Darkness being the big one, and we’re not sure if Mickey’s Kingdom Key D/W is using dark corridors or some other method

Master’s Defender was already shown to have special properties, as well. It’s pretty strongly implied that it’s only Master’s Defender that can transform the Land of Departure into Castle Oblivion (otherwise, why would Master Eraqus specify that Aqua use his Keyblade?)

So it’s entirely possible that Master’s Defender just has special properties to it, like Mickey’s Kingdom Key D/W that could allow it to make passages into the Realm of Darkness. Especially since the Land of Departure was so important because it represented 100% neutral ground between light and darkness

Also, why would Sora then immediately tell Ven that he can’t use the power of waking, like, four scenes after that if what he used was the power of waking? And have to get a tutorial on it from Ven?

So I think you’re correct in your reasoning. Master’s Defender is the most likely cause of Sora’s visit to the Realm of Darkness

[bluerosesburnblue]

i literally love you. i tried reading the sr theory but it was just loaded with implicit kairi hate and obvious bias towards removing her importance from the story. i appreciate you debunking parts of it, even though i know you don't have to. thanak you! ♥

Oh, you’re welcome! I get why a LOT of people have a hard time sitting through this thing. And the Kairi stuff is just ridiculous

The writers claim that they gave her “a bigger role” and to an extent they’re right, I suppose, since apparently now all of her actions have a big-picture “justification.” But what they don’t seem to realize is that that “bigger role” came at the cost of Kairi’s agency as a character and that is not a good way to treat one of, like, five female characters that you have

They constantly ascribe things that Kairi did in the game out of her own choice to other characters. Kairi using her powers to save Sora, the person she holds dearest because she loves and cares for him and would do anything to protect him? Nah, that was Riku’s True Love Sacrifice combined with the power of the Princesses of Heart. So Kairi only takes up 1/8th of saving Sora at best and it was still Riku who started it

Kairi makes the first move towards a romantic relationship with Sora by suggesting that they share the paopu (which she knows Sora’s thought of, because let’s not forget that he’s the one who drew them sharing it first and now she’s letting him know she reciprocates)? Either that’s secretly a plot by Xehanort to draw Sora deeper in (which is the interpretation they usually go with since they keep insisting that she didn’t eat the fruit even though that makes NO sense. If she doesn’t eat it the paopu magic doesn’t work so her not eating it accomplishes literally nothing, but I digress) or a Chirithy Kairi, who isn’t really Kairi because Kairi was the Darkside that you had to destroy to swap worldlines in the first place

They gave her a “bigger role,” but “bigger” doesn’t mean better for the character. Unless that bigger role has bigger agency for the character, it actually benefits other characters more than the one you’ve expanded the role of. You’re putting the impetus of her actions on them, which means that anything she does can’t be credited to her, but to other characters who were manipulating her. You’d never say that a good decision made using a pawn was the pawn’s decision, would you? No, you’d say that the good decision was made by the chess player who moved the pawn

And that’s what I don’t think the theory writers understand about their “improved” Kairi. They damseled her harder than even Nomura did and used her development to improve the narrative importance of other characters while reducing her to a piece to be moved around by her “more powerful” male co-stars. That’s why this theory is considered Kairi hate. She’s not the person who saves Sora so that he can save everyone else, which is so pivotal to the story. Instead, her role in the SR Theory could be done by conceivably anyone and it would make no difference. It’s not based on anything inherent to Kairi. And it’s inconsistent and extremely bad writing

But what did anyone expect from people who claim that she’s gonna be dropped from the trio at some point in the series?

[bluerosesburnblue]

It's sad that the SRT writers clearly adore Riku but don't really understand his character. I get that fans can like the same character for different reasons but it's amazing to see such wildly different interpretations.

Yeah, sometimes you just gotta wonder. If they were casual fans, then I’d give them a pass since most of the more recent games have been portraying Riku after a lot of character growth, so the cocky, bloodthirsty attitude isn’t there at all

But they claim to be HUGE fans, to the point where they admitted to watching only Riku in every scene of KH3. So it’s just kind of disappointing to me how they seem to have forgotten that what makes Riku so compelling is comparing him to how flawed he was at the start of the series and looking at how he got from KH1′s snide little brat to KH3′s mature, caring master. I really don’t know how you can claim to appreciate what he is without also appreciating what he used to be