#loop like. being siffrin. and also being siffrin without their cloak.

[bananacat76]

fffff. loop version?

[clumsypuppy]

(yes I know siffrins cloak grows sleeves when its convenient but I wanna play around with this)

[chimerafeathers]

thinking about Siffrin’s design being (subconsciously) influenced by Snufkin is fun because despite both appearing as mysterious, cool, somewhat aloof travelers, their attitudes regarding companionship are like. almost inverted.

Snufkin deeply values his friendships but also needs time to be alone, to experience the world and travel solo and uninhibited. he’s independent, self-assured, experienced, free-spirited, mischievous at times. someone comforting and fun to be around, but that you can’t hold onto too tightly without stifling him. to try to keep him close would be to keep him trapped, wings clipped, suffocating. he has to be free to roam as he pleases.

Siffrin probably seems exactly like that from the outside! everyone seems to think they can’t WAIT to hit the road unencumbered by their company. they all try to be respectful of Siffrin’s obvious personal space boundaries. and in moments of frustration, Mirabelle and Bonnie both interpret Siffrin’s attitude as him thinking he’s better than them.

all of which is the Exact Opposite of the Truth.

Siffrin sees himself as lesser, not better. instead of needing space and freedom, he craves connection and permanence. they want to be tethered to something, someone. “letting them be free” is as good as telling him he’s unwanted, “respecting his boundaries” is like pushing them away.

and both the party and Siffrin would have remained mired in their misinterpretations if the loops hadn’t dredged up all the issues and agony from whatever depths Siffrin had buried them in.

‼️ PSA: If you ever acquire a small traveler in a pointy wide-brimmed hat, heeled boots, and a worn cloak, please do your research and confirm if you have obtained a Snufkin or a Siffrin. They may appear similar but the methods for responsible care are VERY different. Handling a Siffrin as you would a Snufkin and vice versa will result in great emotional and physical distress for the fellow. Do your due diligence before committing to their care ‼️

[lucabyte]

Finally: The NoHats AU doodles. Plus some sprite edits.

Usually I'd let things speak for themselves and keep my chattering in the tags, but I'll ramble about my context thoughts...

So. First of all here's a link (x) to the Nohats Origin Post for those coming in and going ????.

Anyway. These doodles are not in any obvious chronological order, though Loop going from pilfered bandolier (my headcanon for how Siffrin has all those pockets) -> custom outfit made by Isabeau, is supposed to generally denote 'just after the ending' -> 'a few months down the line'.

And speaking of, Design & Characterisation notes:

Overall: NoHats is suppooooosed to have the range to not just be ULTIMATE MISERY ALL THE TIME (but if you're a major whump/angst fan. go fucking nuts.) so these are supposed to be. The steps toward overcoming and living with grief but. The Misery Is Kind Of The Punchiest Part.... Oops....

Mirabelle: Taking the lead, continuing to carry the weight of the world on her shoulders. In the game proper she's already shown to, while yes, be emotionally fragile at times, be prone to trying to hold the team together. I feel she'd do the same here. It also would help that she'd presumably be medicated again? But I can't imagine her chosen-one anxieities would be super ailed by the death of her friend. I wanted to try and give her more differences? She follows the change belief after all and is thus liable to switch up her style in general... But I didn't have a strong vision for this, so. The ball is in anyone's court. Her design changes here are keeping one of Sif's safety pins a la qpr bonding earring, and has the bell pendant at Loop's (oddly pushy) suggestion.

Isabeau: Taking it. Badly. Depression mullet and beard in tow. However, you best believe he is trying real badly to hide it. Loop very much does not reveal their identity to him because What The Fuck Would That Even Do. That's Scary. but they do try to comfort him while mentally regarding him "off limits". Backs themselves into some very unfortunate corners by alluding to their unfulfilled relationship with their Fighter as a point of common ground. I don't imagine this would go super great when recontextualised later after Loop is inevitably found out. Just in general oh good god what the fuck. this is like a radioactive pit of survivor's guilt.

Bonnie: Taking it probably The Worst. This is a child. Who was already feeling guilt. This is who everyone else is trying to keep it together for. Mirabelle and Isabeau would likely be putting up far less of a front without Bonnie around. They take the hat and take on Pocket Duty. They also have slightly more sif-y hairstyle but... Don't worry about it. They'd have Nille to fall back on once she's picked back up, and Loop almost certainly attempts to redouble efforts on making them feel better but seeing as how closed-off Bonnie can already be, it'd likely be difficult. However they would probably take Loop's identity reveal best...?

Odile: Odile's design.... ! Does not seem to have changed? How odd! Well. I'm sure she's dealing with things in a regular and non-cloistered manner. I already think that a regular Postcanon Activity for Odile could be her finding out about the potential for sif/loop to translate books and thus Knowledge in their native tongue assuming that ability sticks around postgame. Something something culture can never truly be wiped out etc etc. But putting it in this context. Makes it more desperate, more of a deflection for something else.

Loop: Helpful Loop. Well. They win! I feel like the entirety of ISAT being about Siffrin's mental state means I don't need to spill much ink here? You get it I think. I can't outdo the source material man. Anyway I imagine Loop is given clothes by Isabeau before they know who they are, but after they've become genuine friends. The outfit is in genuineness, on both sides from Loop and Isa, in having the cloak be a nod in respect to Siffrin, since Loop's "shared culture" would have to come up vis a vis cultural funerary traditions. Hard to avoid divulging that one...

[oriorchids]

@anxiousapplepie 's roleswap au is really cool so!!

made some special attack cut-ins! one for each character/role (funnily enough three are from traveller!odile's universe)

some more thoughts under a read more

siffrin (researcher)

- first one i did

- he has stars in their eyes!! though one is much easier to see than the other

- remember that one idea about sif using their prosthetic to blind people? i think his special friendquest attack would be smth similar. light blast that stuns an opponent for a turn like that one sasasaap sadness

- if everyone else is stunned he doesn't have to worry about being the slowest in the party. or getting hit when they aren't in their shell/cloak.

- i spent a good while just trying to figure out their expression

- astronomy name? light pun name? flash of genius?? supernova?

mirabelle (fighter)

- mira is about to kill a man, or maybe a strong sadness. good for her

- i spent a while just trying to figure out how to pose her

- i think she'd either get a giant paper-type attack (to make up for a lack of paper a V) or a really big self-buff. maybe a giant paper attack that gives her an attack buff afterwards

- isabeau in canon has a lot of support moves but considering mira's party (housemaiden siffrin traveller bonnie) i think she should be more of a dps. researcher!isa can still be a support

- oh or!!! maybe she heals herself/the party some of the damage she deals.

isabeau (chef)

- may or may not have referenced the sasasaap true ending a bit

- i think the cut-in would appear whenever he runs in to take some damage for someone else

- after friendquests he might be able to counterattack? probably for more damage than bonnie could

- there would probably also be a change for when isabeau's hp is low

- somehow his cut-in ended up the smallest

- imagine if you will: cook!isabeau running in the way of the king trying to grab housemaiden!bonnie during the kingquest end

odile (traveller)

- JUST ATTACK BABYYYYY

- massive paper type move that gives no jackpot points. king will die instantly

- grabbed the way she holds her book in the jackpot

- took the longest to draw her hands i had to take a picture reference

- journal has a blank cover

bonnie (housemaiden)

- i thought it would be funny for bonnie to run across the screen every time instead of getting a formal cut-in but i did consider the formal cut-in briefly

- i think bonnie's special friendquest skill would be a really good revive all/heal all because of memory of promise in canon

- also there is no way bonnie isn't getting stressed from being a kid on a pretty much doomed mission (without the loops)

- wonder how many times bonnie's heard pity from people. including the party!! this child is the saviour of vaugarde

- at least if they work hard enough no one else will get hurt!!!

[radioroxx]

THE. ISAFRIN KIDS I MENTIONED. shared little ocs of my mutuals server <3 love u collection muah muah im not tagging everyone in this tho

other doodles plus some rambling below vvv

- aurore(she/they) and philémon (he/him). they have their own nicknames etc because Who Are Isa and Sif Without Nicknames but. éile is much much more partial to use his than aurore. for her its, every now and then. for him its most of the time (like how bonnie goes by bonnie and not boniface)

- i dont remember how why we started making fankids but i do remember very early on in the conversation discussing the idea of wish kids. think that one fankid meme with the baby descending from the sky. thats a wish kid

- there are. a lot a lot of silly goofy ideas weve come up with for them (such as: isa being Not very good at hair and embarrassing himself trying to help out), but i think my brain would explode trying to remember it all lol. and type it out. feel free to ask ques abt them tho :)

- one thing we did talk about a bunch is! how siffrins background would play into it. having kids + starting a family with isabeau,, maybe feeling guilty over the culture they arent able to share. to make up for it! they! do what they can!!

theres no way to know for sure for sure if siffrins cloak is a island thing. or a family tradition. or just Something his parents did. regardless they would want to do the same for their own children! isa already makes tons and tons of outfits for em (you could imagine lol), so of course he has no issue helping out sif in this new project. (they got to help put with the design of their own cloaks though! for preference)

another thing siffrin wants to share with them is. easily. stars! the stars are something siffrin grew up knowing to be important (or well, he assumes so). so thats something they would want to share too :). maybe he cant remember their names, or constellations, or what any of it Means,, but they can still teach the science behind it! which is also very interesting!! the kinda stuff the kids would take to school the next day to impress other kids with lol

(i also just wanted an excuse to draw the family together,, can u blame me….)

- we also discussed. hypothetically if loop is still around by this point. their own feelings in this situation. its been years since the time loops were broken- years for loop to come to terms with, and mourn, etc. even still theres that feeling of bitterness that lingers, knowing they couldve had this. this couldve been them-

but also its. its hard to be angsty and upset around little kids. ehe

(we joked about loop becoming an awesome babysitter. the kids love them very much.)

ok thats all ur getting for now fjkd again feel free to ask questions weve been a little insane since yesterday

[glassladyoftheopera]

In Stars and Time as a Musical Follow Up: Costumes

Okay, a topic I may have enough thoughts on to make a full post about; costumes! (and a little bit stage craft in some places.)

This is mostly about what people would do if they wanted to actually put on a live version of this, versus treating it like a concept album. I am however going to mostly ignore cost restraints outside of like, truly ridiculous stuff.

So first, some general notes.

The color palette: we will still have all of the costumes and sets be in grayscale, with the red used in the 'say it's name' and Act 5 sequences probably mostly being done through lighting. We will not have the actors use skin paint though. I'm not that mean. The audience can buy the idea that the world is meant to be black and white just fine without it.

Materials: I would avoid overly synthetic looking fabrics to maintain the 'vaguely fantasy medieval' vibe, but I wouldn't worry about using actual natural fabric. Comfort and cleaning are higher priorities.

Ensemble: Not much to say about them! Just that the production would have to be careful to make sure everyone is in truly neutral grayscale and not let too warm / cool of grays slip in.

Okay, let's talk characters.

Siffrin is tricky basically every option for interpreting the cloak has it's own pros and cons. Having sleeves means better movement options for the actor, but they only show up in a handful of images in the game. Full poncho means we get Full Triangle Vibe, but it would hamper movement a lot. Cloak with a pinned closed front means we see more of the rest of the costume more often, which I wouldn't mind, but it does break up the classic triangle silhouette. It's honestly still my pick though. Then there's the eye patch. I know some shows just give characters eye patches, and as long as you're careful staging the dances it will probably be fine? But I assume semi-mesh eye patches for performers are a thing, so I'd try to find one of those. Lastly, hat. It probably couldn't be as absurdly big as in game without casting major shadows we don't want on Siffrin's face, so they'll need a slightly narrower brim and we'd keep the hat pinned in a more back position.

Mirabelle's outfit probably wouldn't need to change much, but her little fingerless gloves would need some reinforcement at the top to keep them from falling down her arms. There's also the matter of her needing to have her sword with her most of the show; it might need to be a little smaller than a true rapier, but Shakespeare shows have duels and such so we can make something work.

Odile wouldn't be particularly difficult to costume as long as you don't make her sweater / jacket too heavy and put some straps on her shoes. Fake glasses aren't hard too bad, but some rigging in the back to keep them on will be helpful.

Isabeau I'm sorry but your sleeves have to be a little less gigantic, it will get in the way of the audience being able to read your gestures / get caught on stuff. They can still be long and loose though. Also, in real life the stripes on his pants being that wide could be an issue in terms of reading where he is on stage with the set / looking kind of goofy, so I might make them just a bit thinner.

Bonnie... I do not know how to make your weird pillow hat work in real life. For most game accurate version you'd have to make it completely from scratch. Something like a beret in terms of construction but... big. And probably held up internally with stuffing and wire. The alternative would probably be a big sunhat, and if you want to include Bonnie getting a new hat just slightly redo that scene to find something else that's similar.

Heck yeah its time for Loop! Now, we're definitely not doing a full star head, that wouldn't let the actor do any of that good emoting. But! I think a lower face mask could still work. You might have to hide the actor's mic under there to make sure they could be heard, but it's definitely possible. They would definitely need a custom wig for spikiness, plus a star-like head piece to top it off. Now the rest of it... I mean, you could go full body suit. I'd probably do that as the first choice, though maybe adding a wispy loin cloth or tie around the middle for modesty depending on your performer / venue. But! Different productions could get really creative with it, as long as the base still has them black and covered with stars and there's the star in their chest. Add in some specific design quirks that are only elsewhere found in Sif and The King's costumes, but just tiny little detail type things? Chef's kiss.

Speaking of the King! He unfortunately does need to be Very Big, but thankfully Broadway shows can pull that off! Something similar to the Wizard head in Wicked could work here, where only some parts of the set piece move (mechanically or via puppetry) and the actor is a voice over. The hair could be a mix of practice and projections. The tears that show up in the fight would probably also need to be projected. The hard thing would be getting it to disappear quickly enough. Maybe the last bit before the loop resets is always in front of the curtain? Could be cool. A less well funded production would probably have to either use mostly projections or re-work to use less moving parts.

Last up Euphrasie! Since she has a long dress getting her some extra height wouldn't be too hard, and she doesn't have to dance or anything so that helps. But! She does need to do the Act 4 finale dramatic kneel down, which is harder to work around. If we cast a tall actor and just use lifts in her shoes, it could work. She wouldn't be as super tall as she would be if we used hidden stilts, but I like the image of her cupping Sif's face, it goes all the way back to the comics, I gotta keep it.

What about y'all? How would you dress everyone? Any little details you'd want to see? And tricks to deal with the problems I thought of? Have fun!

[faislittlewhiteraven]

Fais fanfic rambles: Introduction to my 'Selkies by Starlight' ISaT AU

Note: Not to be confused with @looped-140-and-counting / Soren_793's wonderful Selkie AU oneshot series 'The Northern Islanders are Selkies' which was hugely inspiring for this if potentially VERY different in vibe (we got very into talking about cloaks! XD)

Basic premise/summary:

In an alternate version of the precanon adventure, the party lead by Mirabelle to stop the King freezing Vaugarde in time, recruit Siffrin as per usual.

Thing is, Siffrin is a Selkie.

A very skittish selkie without a cloak of their own, who openly wears the cloak of another, and due to Reasons is under the impression that the party know all both of those things and the Implications about them, and for whatever reason have decided to welcome him into their group anyway.

Which er, he's completely wrong about as the party know absolutely nothing.

Mira and Isa like most Vaugardian humans think 'shifters' are just fairytales, Odile knows shapeshifters are real but is only really familiar with how foxes like her father work, and Bonnie is actually able to sense some pretty major things but is a preteen dealing with a lot and hasn't even joined the party yet, so this pretty major misunderstanding is sustained for quite a while...

Cue the AUs' main focus being on the resulting party dynamic shifts as more and more canon divergence due to Sif's 'selkie stuff' (both cute and serious) comes into play, the party slowly realising something is up, and all of it hitting an eruption point right around the time of the 4th Orb/the loss of Siffrin's eye...

Some key world building notes: (Note: very summarised from my docs. I have like 20k+ words on this stuff XD)

The Island - Probably the most drastically different thing from canon here, the Island was not forgotten or erased here. Rather it is hidden away and permanently shrouded in Wish Craft generated fog from 'those without cloaks'. Side note: Sif is still unable to return home and continues to have some very plot critical memory problems but those are due to unrelated issues, which means yay I get to have Sif talk 'home culture' with the others in this =D Also idk why the King is freezing Vaugarde still. I've got a few ideas I'm not sure about and he's not in focus enough for it to even matter really, but random suggestions -especially those with possible selkie motivations- would be very much appreciated.

Selkie powers in my setting - Went into something of a deep dive regarding selkie folklore for this and did you know they have an absolute ton of seer/oracle based stuff going on?

From selkie being summoned by their human lovers shedding seven tears into the ocean, to a selkie man telling a former lover that he and their child will die at the hands by her genuinely good and loving future husband, to a selkie woman forseeing her fisherman husband about to die out in a storm just in time for her to swim over there and rescue him, etc.

So... Yeah. This AU has a lot of plot relevant sensory/seer stuff going on as well as the standard seal shapeshifter stuff (Islander selkie traditionally believe it to be the Universe talking with them, in the same way Wish Craft is talking to the Universe), and going off all the stuff I read decided it'd be most fitting if the general rule for how it all works is: - Selkie always passively have a bit of it going on (aka Sif's canon 'you sense someone nearby' stuff) which like most things can be enhanced with Craft use a bit. - Near perfect understanding of all 'connected' bodies of water (aka they know EXACTLY where the tasty fish are/will be and can probably get a general sense of location for most people on a boat) - Potentially get strong 'visions of the future' and/or instincts on what they need to do to avert an outcome when it comes to loved ones being in danger/distress.

They also maybe get to pull very fast, high power Wish Craft 'curses'/miracles' at idk, the cost of something major like their cloak or lives (mostly based off of the The Legend of Kópakonan where the whole island of Kalsoy was cursed with death by a selkie in retaliation for her husband and children being murdered) but not super attached to this idea past it being in 'seal shifter' stories in-setting.

Other non humans in setting and regional differences in shifters - Pretty much only selkie and selkie issues are in focus here, but just as a general thing, all non humans in setting are shapeshifters and originated from human ancestors who went crazy with the the Body Craft and/or used Wish Craft in some way.

Ka Bue in particular has a ton of them since yokai, with their origins being various sects/clans back in the warring eras going so nuts with trying to weaponize Body Craft (super soldiers, enhanced life spans, infiltration, exploiting attraction to furries, etc), that after some particularly high profile incidents (for an idea plz see: Kiyohime, Tamamo no Mae, Kachi-kachi Yama) and 'Body Craft misuse leading to shut down of the brain/vital organs' being the most common cause of death for 10+ years once peace time was established, eventually Ka Bue's authorities set their foot down and banned Body Craft altogether.

Currently the shifter population in Ka Bue is around 30% of the population, shifters are required to have ID regarding their forms (or potential forms if they're merely 'half'), and it's considered distasteful for a shifter to be in non human form outside of private settings/necessity and even ruder to ask a shifter about their non human forms if they haven't brought the topic up yet first (kinda like seeing/asking about someone's underwear or something XD).

In contrast the Vaugarde, Mwudu and Porteria region is extremely shifter sparce, with most of its original shifter population being the result of various Universe worshipping peoples (mostly small groups, like greek mystery cults) deciding to use a big Wish Craft ritual as some sort of religious rite and becoming shifters as a side effect of their primary Wish (usually stuff like 'we wish for us and our descendants to be one with You and the sea/air' or 'may we Change with the phases of the holy moon' etc) which granted them some pretty neat skills but also tended to come with some 'potentially nasty' drawbacks attached (see: selkie and swan maidens with their cloaks, werewolves Changing in both body and mind etc) Which er, lead to some issues born of lack of knowledge about this stuff, later some very nasty anti shifter sentiment in the region, and then around... IDK 200 to 300 years ago or so ended up exploding into violence and other very nasty things, with most shifters able to do so fleeing the region, and those that couldn't either enduring horrible conditions until they could escape/died or went deep into hiding, with the Island's Country being founded by the two later groups who used Wish Craft to hide their new home, erase awareness of their existence from their enemies (a short term, fully intentionally 'forgetting' blast centered specifically around shifters), and developed a LOT of culture and traditions regarding when, who and what can be told to 'outsiders' about themselves, Wish Craft, etc in order to keep their people safe.

There are shifters living in present in Vaugarde of course (anti shifter sentiment died back a LOT after most people stopped thinking they were real, and most modern day Change Believers are more likely to view these 'totally fictional/allegorical' beings as children/messengers of the Change God rather than 'evil demons who stole power by tearing apart the Change God's cloak for themselves and thus have to be hunted down and made to repent' propaganda take that was everywhere back then) but numbers actually living outside the Island as opposed to merely visiting remain low, since either the shifters know their history and stick firmly to their 'stay secret' traditions or quickly pick up on how oddly unknown shifters are around these parts and decide to err on the side of caution... Also 'trust worthy' humans who do learn about them (usually northern coastal folk, gee wonder why) tend to help cover them up so... Yeah =D

---

And... Yeah!

This is hella long as is, so will stop here and ramble about the actual 'how this all affects our beloved Sif and Co plot and culture wise' stuff that is the actual meat of the AU in another post later, but hope this made for an interesting/idea provoking read, know that I have no issue with anyone using any of this for their own works (just please, don't use the 'Selkies under starlight' same story name unless it's actually a fanfic/fanart of my 'hopefully soon has a chapter/one shot up' fic/Ao3 series of the same name so people don't get confused), and I would love to chatter with you about any thoughts/questions you might have so...

Wishing you a good day =D

(sighes in relief finally getting this post finished after literal months. Pheeeeww~)

[loopdile]

loopdile so real. i have a Vision of both siffrin and loop being Deeply Deeply Closeted Repressed Transfem and having gender envy over odile and i feel like that'd do Something to the Dynamic. Something......... Something........................... well i'm not successfully envisioning it but maybe YOU are?

i am positively plagued by loopdile gender visions!!! maybe not the exact same as you're thinking but i think you will enjoy them. walk with me, anon, through the garden of my loop gender headcanons. it's kind of a big garden but we'll get to the odile part eventually i promise.

Before they were Siffrin, Siffrin had their gender on lock: something transfem, but also tied to unique cultural elements in some way, either the specific identity or the way of thinking about it or just the particular set of presentation options. Perhaps they even started fantasy HRT! But then they forget everything, obviously, including their identity and transition plans. They decide pretty quickly that they're not a man, but none of the alternatives feel exactly correct either; if their previous identity was presented as an option, maybe it would click and they'd settle into it pretty fast, but unfortunately that is literally impossible.

So, no clear goals in mind. And because of his forgotten past, continued memory problems, and constant traveling, Siffrin starts to really value the few things he can count on to stay consistent. He'd rather wear his comfortable hat and cloak than leave them behind in favor of anything more gendered. He'd rather stick with his familiar body than risk changing it. Still, maybe there are some changes he'd be happier in the long run to have made... but the process would be stressful, and he's got enough stressful things to worry about already!

But then we get to Loop. Who has already been changed, suddenly and irrevocably and so very, very accidentally. They are not Siffrin anymore, they do not have the hat and cloak, they aren't even human. They don't even really remember who they were pre-loops. There is no familiarity for them to cling to; instead, they're desperate to find things they can control, things they can change, proof that the world moves forward and they're in charge of their place in it. The motivation that Siffrin lacked, Loop now has in spades!

However, their negative feelings are more intense as well. They struggle to face real stakes, to put effort into anything too complicated, to try anything that might disappoint them. They take risks, yes, but not about things they care about; they take risks because they don't care. And they have a lot of other things going on, too, both practically and psychologically, so gender isn't their immediate priority. "Who and what am I?" is a very difficult question for them right now on multiple levels, a difficult question with only difficult answers.

But, starting with the practical: wearing clothes is an easy way to look and feel a little bit more normal, right? So they experiment, and they decide that dresses are just similar enough to the cloak to be comfortable, but distinct enough to not be as emotionally fraught. And they like them in a frivolous way that Siffrin was never willing to lean all the way into. Siffrin didn't put much thought or energy into his appearance, but Loop's inhuman form is a constant issue, so they might as well dress it in a way they like! Something good to balance out the bad, since they can't be neutral any longer.

And of course they think about body craft, though in a different context from most people. Even the nearly-human parts of their body are lacking detail, without all the right functions behind the form, and then other parts aren't human at all. Their body feels wrong, distracting, constricting. They don't understand how it works, and it draws attention they don't want, and it's not them. And yet, isn't it? Even if they'd been put back into a Siffrin body again, they aren't Siffrin anymore, either. Loop is what the loops made them. They want to change their body, to make it something they can be comfortable in, but they can't. Because body craft is a method of changing flesh and blood and bone, and Loop is not made of such human stuff anymore.

So we've got Loop. Trying to find themself, and maybe succeeding in some ways, but stymied or uncertain in others. Desperate to change, but scared to hope. To make a long story short, they join back up with the party, which brings its own set of problems, and yet... it's also a step towards fixing some of their problems, too. Most relevant to our post, here: Odile is a craft expert with a unique set of experiences. She's got a wide foundation of knowledge, since she's familiar with all three main craft types. She used to be part of Ka Bue's underground body-crafting scene, where she not only crafted her own body but also helped and taught other people; and unlike in Vaugarde, where Houses provide resources and education, Odile and her peers had to do their own research and experiments, develop their own techniques. She even has some knowledge of wish craft from Siffrin, and the way she stopped Siffrin from looping proves that she's unusually good at analyzing and adapting to new forms of craft.

So once Loop's dissatisfaction with and ignorance regarding their own physical form comes to Odile's attention, of course she offers to help. To see if she can figure out what their body is made of, and how it works, and hopefully, in what ways it can be changed.

And this dynamic with her... it's totally different from her relationship with Siffrin, both pre-loops and post. And Loop has always admired her, and here she is, talking about the confidence and determination with which she changed her own body, not without fear or frustration but not letting herself be slowed down by them, either. Taking her fate into her own hands and refusing to be anyone other than herself. And Loop used to feel that Odile understood them best, and losing that connection felt like the end of the world, but here she is, still! Observant and caring as ever. Dedicated to figuring them out again. Unflinching as she sees them for the strange thing they currently are, but equally unshakable in her insistence that they do not have to stay exactly as they are.

So Odile helps them figure out their body. Helps them with the craft itself, too, but even more than that — through both encouragement and example, she helps them be brave enough to genuinely try. To ask themself what they really want. To strike a balance between Siffrin's complacent hesitation and Loop's miserable desperation. To experiment, and face both the chance of failure and the chance of success with head held high. To hope.

Odile is not one for platitudes and empty positivity, after all. If she says something's possible, then it is, or she will make it so, one way or another, despite any setback. Isn't she proof? She remade herself, and she can remake Loop, too. Changing them, slowly and carefully and so very, very deliberately. Loop will never be human again, but they can decide who they are and become themself.

[auncyen]

You thought you were great at thinking things through. Before Changing into Isabeau, you were great at overthinking them, even! But once Siffrin shows up at the Clocktower, everything seems to happen too quickly for your brain to catch up.

One moment, Odile is suggesting you all go to the house without Sif, and you get why she's thinking about it, but you can't. But you look at Mira and realize how badly Sif hurt her this afternoon, and. If half the team can't trust Siffrin. Odile's right, isn't she? It's not going to work. Unless you figure out what's wrong with Siffrin and help them fix it so they can apologize--

(Maybe you should still be mad at Siffrin too. They didn't say anything that wasn't true, though, and in a weird way it was …kind of flattering how well Sif had you pegged? Like, Siffrin obviously paid you a lot of attention. Maybe, if they weren't having the wildest post-nap crabs ever, there would have been some nice things said too.)

Then Siffrin shows up, and he's still acting weird, with that miserable fake smile. Then he's mad because he overheard you all talking about leaving him behind, saying you're all going to get yourselves killed. Then he starts talking about time loops, and your brain catches on the realization that oh, no wonder he could nap even the day before you're going to fight the King, he's sick. He's got to be. It's the worst possible timing and they should have told someone before it got this bad, but it's not like they could help the timing and, well, for as easygoing as Siffrin is (most of the time), they have the most stubborn independent streak of anyone you've seen, self-reliant to the occasional fault. You think it's usually a positive. He bounced back from losing an eye better than anyone else expected. But he's hidden being sick once before, because he was the last to get it and Mira was anxious to resume traveling when everyone else had gotten better, of course he'd hide it when tomorrow is the big day. Oh Change if it's contagious, because this time he seems to be the first one sick. You're all fighting the King tomorrow and one of your group is ranting about time loops. Also that you all hate him, which, no??? Where did he get that?

But then you try to catch Odile's eye and pause. You expected pure exasperation, and it's definitely scrawled across her face, but she's also peering at Siffrin in consideration, and you remember what she said about a book Siffrin shouldn't have known about.

And then Siffrin slips off the counter and you stand because the way you see it there are two options: either they're extremely ill, or time loops are actually a thing and that's kind of something everyone needs to know about. Either way, they shouldn't just be running out on you!

"Sif. You need to sit down, and explain EVERYTHING about what you just said." You have to be firm so Sif understands how serious this is. Whatever's going on, he needs to explain so everyone else can help.

But maybe you should have thought more about using that tone, because Sif's breath hitches and his face, already so pale with that dark bag under his eye, seems to lose shade entirely. Then there's barely-chewed samosa on both your shoes, which convinces you. He's sick. Change, if it's contagious, please let everyone get sick the day after tomorrow. You can be as miserable as you want then. Tomorrow, you need everyone.

"Okay, okay, uh," you blurt. Your brain is still trying to figure out what to actually say. It's also fighting both your hands and the urge to check how high a fever Sif's running right now, because you've just realized they're shaking. "Sif, can you just--sit down, I'll clean this, you need to rest--SIF--"

He dodges to your left, ducking around you. You whirl around and grab him, vainly reach for an arm and grasping only cloak fabric, because he needs to stop and calm down--

Normally, you know better than to grab anyone. Especially Sif.

They whirl on their feet with their face twisted in a snarl, one gloved hand reaching up to shove you away with a flat palm--

The scent of stationery reaches your nose, and Paper Craft pushes you off-balance, stumbling back until you hit the counter even as Siffrin snatches his hand back, his good eye wide with horror. You can hear chairs sliding back as both Mirabelle and Odile recognize the Craft sign as well, though Bonnie only sounds confused. Of course they're confused. Siffrin didn't even touch you, and he doesn't know Paper Craft.

Even if they did, they wouldn't use it on you. It didn't hit hard, you think, but maybe you're just too shocked to feel it yet. You stand there, dazed and dumb, until you feel healing Craft being used on you.

It's not Mirabelle healing you.

It's Siffrin, his head lowered but his voice just loud enough for you to make out the words before he sits down, right there in the middle of the kitchen floor. Not moving. Breathing too loud, but so are you.

Since when do they know healing Craft, either?

"Isabeau," Odile says, her voice tightly controlled. "Take Boniface and get the cleaning supplies from the closet, please."

Right. Right, smart, something is very wrong and you need to keep Bonbon safe until you've got a handle on this, so you gesture for Bonnie to come with you and tell them not now when they protest because they're just as confused as you feel, ushering them out of the makeshift kitchen area, and it's not until you're at the supply closet and Bonnie asks if you're okay that you realize Odile wasn't sending only Bonnie out of the room.

Deep breaths, Isabeau. Like Siffrin does!

Change, what is even going on?

"...Did Frin hurt you?" Bonnie asks, looking uneasy. "Nille would have totally flipped you if you grabbed her like that. But they used Craft, didn't they?"

"…They got me, a little, but not too bad," you say slowly, trying to think it through without keeping Bonnie waiting too long. "And obviously they didn't mean to, since they healed me right away!"

And you realize, as you say it, that you really do believe that. The smell of Paper Craft was too strong compared to what actually hit you. You saw Siffrin pull his hand back right before the hit instead of doing a proper follow-through. You tried to grab him without thinking. He reacted without thinking and tried to stop as soon as his brain caught up.

And that's terrifying, because that means they used Craft that's not even their natural type on reflex, because their hand was already moving into a close enough shape. You've known for a while they hate being touched. It wasn't anywhere near that bad before.

What

in the world

is happening?

[apple-onigiri]

Headcanon :D

In the scenario of post-canon human Loop joins the party (and presumably looks basically like Siffrin) I think they'd start out being super obsessive around trying to be who they used to be, before everything, or at the very least be more like siffrin but...

They're just not.

They're a lot more feminine, they have different nervous ticks now, they have different hobbies, they talk differently, the dress differently, and they learn to be okay with that. Eventually, they start going by another name. They start to love themself in the process, too.

yeah!!!!! yeah.....

i think that, while it might be a bit scary to them, confronting how much their experiences pushed them to change and how disquieting not being a siffrin might be at first (and yeah, they'd try to act the way he does at first as you said), they'd eventually find much solace in being so different without being completely separate

a lot of loop's anger in two hats seems to stem from the fact they feel like they got sidelined and replaced by another version of them that, while seemingly identical to them from back then, inexplicably managed to break free unlike them. there's this insecurity in being the "worse siffrin" and i think it'd be really freeing for them to realize it doesn't quite matter what this siffrin is like, especially once they figure out no one expects or wants them to go back to playing that role

gahhh i loooove them picking a new name post-canon, and in general affirming their own identity separate from siffrin and the loops both. this is exactly why i made my own human loop somewhat similar to siffrin but very clearly different in mostly ways you'd have to consciously pick, like the cloak being turned into an asymmetrical capelet, the pins being put in different spots or not wearing the eyepatch and the like. they might grow out their hair long enough to weave it into a braid eventually, i like hc'ing they did that when they were younger

(also, aside from that identity-affirming stuff, it's clear the fckin panicked and "this "loop" was the first thing they could think of so there's that lmao let them change it)

thank you for the ask!!! i really enjoyed it ╰(*°▽°*)╯

[doodlescanjo]

Hi howdy hello! I am in a isat telephone game (Specifically, the “MDP returns” chain on chipper-smols telephone game), and can now link to the ao3 chapter where my section is! I’m going to put it under a keep reading here as well, and I highly recommend looking at the other chains and chapters if you haven’t already. They’re all really good.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/65503747/chapters/168609286

Isabeau let out a sigh as he pulls out the handkerchief, trying to focus on what he should add next. The handkerchief is a large thing, closer to a cloth napkin than a true handkerchief, but even with its size, it’s hard to find a section of its light cloth that doesn’t have a design already there. It’s been almost two whole weeks since they had beaten the King, and you are worried about Siffrin.

The Traveler has been reserved since they left Dormont, and still hasn’t opened up about anything that happened in the time loops. Oh sure, they’ve told you about things like hitting a countertop and making a funny noise, or how they dont hate being touched, and even told everyone about their home and how it’s gone (and boy, didn’t that explain a lot).

But still, they’re very clearly hiding more than a few things, and any time anyone tries to get them to open up about it they get blatant deflections and lies, followed by Sif looking like they just kicked a dog on accident, so you’ve decided to not push and just let him open up at their own rate. 

You thought everyone else had come to the same conclusion, which is why you were so surprised when Odile chose to push them on it today. 

There hadn’t been anything that made you think today would be any different than usual, it was just the regular: They woke up calm, Bonnie made oatmeal, and you are almost at the next town, maybe a day or two out. Siffrin was joking with Mira, you were listening as quietly as you could, and all of the sudden Siffrin stops in the middle of a joke, and sinks into their collar in thought. Usually that’s the end, as everyone lets the moment pass, but this time the M’dame apparently decided enough was enough, because she pushed them on what they were thinking of, and didn’t let up until Siffrin was practically catatonic, and they remained that way all day, and were still mute when they went to bed. 

You shake your head, physically throwing the thought from your mind as you refocus on the handkerchief. The handkerchief is a gift, one you’re making for Siffrin, and also it’s a good excuse to get back into the swing of sewing and embroidery, those skills having fallen to the wayside back when you left the defenders without remembering to grab your sewing supplies. It's also a great way to get your mind off things, just sewing your worries and fears into the fabric hoping it will help the person you give it to. As you finally decide on what to add, you start sewing, your mind filled with wishes for Siffrin to open up, for Siffrin to tell you what's bothering them, for Siffrin’s fears to be visible.

Unknown to you, the Universe listens.

*****

“…So, I thought I should give you this! Thanks for everything, Sif. Remember, we care about you!”

And with that, he hands you the handkerchief, walks back down the hall, and enters his room. 

You sigh, holding the gift. The fact that he went out of his way to make this, to make you a gift, fills your heart with warmth. Your ears are practically burning from the compliments, not helped by the fact that the  handkerchief is still warm, practically buzzing actually, and probably smells like him as well (disgusting as always, huh?). You hurry into your room, quickly put on your pajamas (you didn’t use to have them, but any difference from the loops helps) and climb into bed. You consider what to do with the handkerchief, before deciding to just fold it and put it in your cloak. As you climb into bed, you feel the phantom sensation of sugar on your tongue.

You awaken sometime later to that taste on your tongue being much stronger, but still not quite burnt, and a flash of light at your window. Worried you overslept, and not mildly scared of the sweetness in the air, you try and get up.

You try and get up.

You try and-

You can’t get up. You try and push but the only bit of your body that moves are your eyes. Great, just what you needed when there might be wishcraft nearby. Sleep paralysis.

As you calm down and finally focus on the window, your breath hitches. There, slightly broken up by the frame, is a star practically identical to the one in Loops chest. Your mind whirls as your heart sings and cries all at once. Is it Loop, are they back? Why did they come back? Didn’t they go back to their family? What’s wrong? Why-

And suddenly, the star flares, and a figure materializes.

No

No.

No no no no nonononononononoNO!

There, silhouetted by the star it rode in on, is your darkest moment. Your worst thoughts given life, the creature your family friends saved you from, your Sadness.

Mal Du Pays stands at the windowsill, silhouetted by a wish, its expression a tired, sad derision as it stares at your frozen form.

*****

Mal Du Pays stood staring at Siffrin, silent and unmoving as the star behind it fades and the sheer animal panic in the Travelers eye grew, until Siffrin managed to regain enough mobility to stand at the ready, at which point the Traveler began to try and gather craft, energy pooling in their hand before it suddenly stuttered and faded, their craft exhaustion still making any large craft unusable. The figure still stood in silence as he began to angrily whisper at the shape in the window, mindful of the others sleeping in the next room over.

“Why!? Why the hell are you here!?!” 

The figure was silent, observing.

“I’m happy now! I don’t want you here, nobody wants something like you here!” He continued.

The figure looked annoyed, yet still remained silent.

“Leave before any of the others see you, go away! The script is done, they didn’t forget me, and I didn’t let go so you can’t be here!” They said, their panic rising back over their anger as tears gathered in their eye.

The figure opens its mouth…

“…[Oh stardust~, always leaving your messes behind for others to clean, aren’t we?]…”

(No! Not again not again no no NO!)

“[Really, I don’t want to be here any more than you 

do, but you just. can’t. let. go. can you? You just cling, and plead, and trick those around you into doing whatever you want using your worthless tears to drag them down with you. It’s no surprise that the only person the Universe could find that would help you, was you! Tehee~! Isn’t it funny, then, that the only time I was honest with you was when I was trying to kill you? That even you cannot stand being stuck with someone as worthless as yourself?]”

(You feel like puking. You know that it's just saying whatever it can to hurt you, but still.

Isn't it the truth? 

You open your mouth to ask, beg, plead for it to stop, only for it to continue.)

“[But no, I’m not here to help you hear the truth, or to be your helpful guide to your Loops again, though I am your guide. No, stardust, I am here to guide you through being honest and open with those around you, so you stop wasting all their time and they can finally know enough to break free of your disgusting lies.]” the figure closed its mouth, seemingly pleased with itself.

As you stand there, mind reeling from its threat (you think?) and trying to figure out if that was more torment or an actual explanation, there is a noise at the door, and Bonnie steps in, looking confused, tired, and blindingly furious.

*****

You wake up to the sound of someone trying very hard to screech at the top of their lungs and whisper silently at the same time. This doesn’t work, only making what echoes through the wall sound to you like an as-matic snake, and making you want to hear what they are saying even more. You extract yourself from the cuddle pile (there was only one bed, and no-one wanted to go bother ‘Frin after the last inn) and put on your clothes all sneaky, leaving your shoes and hat to be a better sneaker. The whisper-shouts were joined by a voice that sounds really familiar, and as you open the door to your room, you can finally pick out Siffrin as the mysterious whisper-yeller. As you pad slowly towards their door, you can finally make out the other voice as belonging to that star person who helped you save ‘Frin from his forever-school, the one who you were told had disappeared, and was now apparently getting chewed out for ditching without saying goodbye! You had to hear this, so you stuck your ear up to the door, and listened.

“…[-ust, I am here to guide you through being honest and open with those around you, so you stop wasting all their time and they can finally know enough to break free of your disgusting lies]...”

…what? 

How dare they?

‘Frin is still trying to get over the stupid brain they got from being stuck in forever school, and the star person is trying to pry them open like a clam? They may not be honest about everything, still doing that stupid smile when you ask if they’re ok, but they are getting better! They don't need some stupid star headed idiot to tell them that everyone will hate them for not lying, that's gonna make everything worse! Having decided to teach that crab a lesson, you slam open the door heroically (open it fast and keep it from hitting the wall, you know your manners) ready to point your fist at the crab and save ‘Frin!

Only there isn't a star person, there's a travel-ready lightless copy of siffrin with no mouth, and both Siffrins are looking at you like you died. (you are pretty sure you have, but you’ll wait.) you end up with the lightless ‘Frin hugging you tightly and rambling nonsense from the weird ghost ‘Frins around it that you are pretty sure weren't there a second ago. With otherfrin practically sobbing around you, you turn to the only one in the room not sobbing into your shirt, and demand an explanation.

*****

As Bonnie tells the party all about “Wish-sif”, there is mixed reception. While Bonnie and Mira are fairly pleased that Siffrin has a helper to make them ok with opening up, Odile is suspicious of the general “wishcraft” as a response to her question of “how?” and will be consulting the “Wish-sif” when they have a moment, as they currently seem fixated on hovering over Bonnie like an odd shadow. Isa is mostly embarrassed, having figured out his part in the “how”, and trying hard to not think about his part in the “why”. Siffrin is relieved that even his sadness doesn’t want to hurt anyone but him, and is now planning to try and figure out what the wish he has to fulfill is.

***** Vinny1

After the first night, Mal Du Pays didn't speak, and for the most part the party simply assumed they couldn’t, and tried to include them in other ways while they looked for a book on sign. This proved unnecessary when one night, when Siffrin had been particularly avoidant of anyone, it struck. As they had gathered together to eat, siffrin sat slightly outside of the circle, still there but not touching anyone. After a round of conversation, as Mal Du Pays was helping Bonnie with the dishes, it stopped, turned to stare at Isabeau, and opened its mouth. “(Please oh stars touch me, please please please! I know I'm disgusting, I know my eyes are bigger than my stomach, but please. I can’t say it, it’s life endingly embarrassing, but please!)” it said in the tone of siffrin having a breakdown, and promptly turned back to scrubbing the bottom of a pot, ignoring the bomb they left behind. Siffrin ended up not allowed to go without a Isabeau hug for at least an hour for weeks, and by that point it had become a ritual, you understand.

***** Vinny2

It took until 3 days after the “Wish-Sif” opened its mouth for them to finally separate from Bonniface and Siffrin, and even then you are pretty sure that the only reason they did so was that you stopped bothering to hide your desire for a private conversation. As you and the negative of Siffrin step into a clearing, you about-face and finally ask the question you have been meaning to.

“Are you a sadness?”

It appears shocked for a moment, but it fades into a curious mixture of fear and joy.

“…Their grief and sadness is all that remains.” “SIFF!” “[…helpful guide…]” they say in a collection of voices, sounding not dissimilar to a fever dreams blending. Suddenly, one of the everpresent ghosts surrounding the sadness speaks up “(Wishcraft can be woven into cloth, and the desire woven and its strength determine the outcome.)” and with that, the ghost seemed to be cut by a knife through the throat, and faded. There were additional questions, but you received no response. It seems that you have exhausted the goodwill this Sadness has for you. As you leave it occurs to you to ask its name. Hearing it both confirms it truly is Siffrins, and pulls at your own heartstrings. (You won't spread it, of course. You are many things, but a snitch is not one of them.)

***** Vinny3

It's been months since the being known to most as “wish-sif” had joined the party, and they were almost to Bonnie’s hometown, where petronille should be. It was interesting seeing how quickly siffrin took to being open about his fears and desires when something as minor as not informing anyone of their deadly allergy to one of the chef-cookers favorite foods leads to “wish-sif” doing dramatic re-enactments of each of their deaths to said food, at the dinner table. They were kicked out of the tavern after the second hour as though saviors they were, no one wanted to listen to the sound of someone dying from food while they ate soup. Bonnie still hasn’t forgiven either ‘Frin, as they had talked the owner into sharing some recipes the night before, and were not allowed to collect. There was a night where Odile got drunk and asked the sadness what the worst death had been, which was followed by a chorus of despairing ghost-frins as Mal Du Pays replayed Bonnie's death, including the pleas of the family. Bonnie still has bodyguards, and was getting real tired of being Siffrins only source of bodily harm and trauma. Nevertheless, the family has integrated the sadness into their group, much to the mild annoyance of Siffrin, who had grown used to Mal Du Pays’ taunting and harassment, and was more annoyed with the fact it hogged Bonnie time.

[maryonmega]

An unconventional victory

(This takes place around the end of act 3 of In Stars And Time)

Mirabelle is combing Siffrin's hair.

They've been doing their homework for several loops now. Talking, reading, looking at old things with new eyes.

Defeating the King didn't work. The power of love didn't work...

But, having his allies love him was still a delicious feeling. A type that would be saved for particularly bad moments. And, right now, Siffrin needs the support. They need the safety. They're tense.

Because, this loop, he'll try to convince the King to stop.

There's no garantee that it will work. That he'll listen. But, there is the need  to try. And that makes the rogue tense.

But, as Mira undoes the tangled mess that became of his hair, he feels some of it leave their body. Body not as stiff as before by the time the once rat's nest of darkless and lightless became soft waves falling over his shoulders.

And, soon enough, it was time to enter the King's chambers.

This can be the difference between staying imprisoned or freedom-

"Do you remember?"

"Somehow."

-the speech about change happens-

"Maybe you don't need this type of change, either."

-the fight starts.

Maybe it won't be this loop. Not after he released that special attack over Mira's shield. Not after Siffrin also hit him with craft.

But, will he come out of this loop empty handed? This feels anticlimatic at best.

What else can be done, though? They're pretty sure he has asked everything he could. They have that plan in mind for a reason.

...

Well, having a little bit of curiosity satisfied won't hurt anyone.

"Flower for you."

He hears his (allies) family members confusion after the offering. Not enough to back off.

"Will you remember me, Bright One?"

"Of course."

Might as well say what he likely wants to hear.

The battle continues after that, the bright flower protected from the craft inside the sheets of armor.

Siffrin doesn't zone out when the King cries. They prepare the bomb. It's the quickest way to get rid of them...

... Has the King always looked so pitiful in those moments?

Maybe it's the fellow Islander speaking, maybe it was because of the earlier idea still being there, but... they didn't want to throw the bomb at him...

... Which wouldn't be a big problem if the fuse wasn't already lit and burning.

Without thinking, the rogue made a choice: he threw the bomb behind the group, as far as he could. It was possible to hear it hit the door-

"Let's stop fighting."

-and then explode.

Siffrin barely registered what was going on. To him, it was just testing the waters in order to try the real deal in a later loop.

He didn't see someone doing the oh so sool act of keeping one's back turned to an explosion.

He didn't see the way their hat flew off their head, cloak and freshly combed hair waving in the explosion's wind. In a way that shouldn't be mesmerizing, but...

... after someone who "somewhat" remembers showed intent to remember him, after landing in front of him just like that... and a pretty one at that...

... the sweet smell, the mark of the Universe's touch...

... what could it be but fate? A sign, a gift, from the Universe itself?

Only a fool ignores what's in front of them.

"... Yes, we should."

The other four, as out of the loop as could be, need a moment just to remember where they are and what they're doing, and then another to remember how to speak.

"What?" Is how Mira breaks the silence.

"Bright One, Siffrin, they are right. We can stop."

Despite the plan, the rogue himself was also confused.

Even after the fight started, it worked?

Odile, on the hand, still seemed to want to freeze the King with her glare.

"If you actually believe we will fall for this cheap trick, you're sorely mistaken!"

"It's not a trick. I haven't lied to you. And I have no reason to do so now."

Still, the older traveler can't be blamed. The only reason the King himself was accepting it was because of the clear connection.

How many times have the two met? How many different outcomes has this fight have? Yet they continue to meet...

What an eternity to recieve.

But, the Universe is not cruel. It's wise and kind. It's offering something else. Something better. Depending of the angle, a new shape of eternity.

Better to embrance the one that's not under risk of being ripped away.

The vaguely sweet smell in the air starts to vanish.

The others are still staring when he lifts the spell. It's hard to miss. The lightless shade starts to leave the surroundings. It's a funny feeling. He could feel the loss of grasp for kilometers and kilometers. Hear the little housemaiden say with wide eyes that she can feel the people in the House.

It feels like a waste. But, it's the hand that he was given to play with.

The rogue has already picked their hat back up and put on their head. Their shocked face is still visible.

It's, cute.

"Bright One. Siffrin. Look at me."

They do. They see a hand approach their face. A... much smaller hand then before. Almost as soon as the sweet smell was gone, so was the gigantic size.

... Good. It wouldn't do if their children can't properly hug one of their parents.

"... Let's make those wishes come true."

"What do you think you're doing? Back off! Frin doesn't like touch!"

Oh! Right! Bonnie is still here!

The gauleted hand backed off, not before the wok meets it with a metalic clank. This time, the spotlight was on the others. On the (friends)(allies)(family members) companions.

Isa had his arms crossed and the most serious look Siffrin had seen on his face. Sharing first place with the day after they lost their eye.

"You might have stopped, but you still caused chaos and death. You're not going out on your merry way."

The Defender on him speaking, eh?

Even under the layers of hair, the King's thoughtful glance was noticeable.

"I accept whatever you choose to do, as long as I can stay near him."

Charming, isn't him? Almost like he knew that the fear of resuming the time freezing plan would put the group in an odd situation.

... But, ultimately, the choice would be Mirabelle's, and the Head Housemaiden's...

"I... I would like to believe that everyone can change..."

They will have to talk to Head Housemaiden...

"Gems, if any of you is left alone with him, I might form an ulcer as soon as I step out of this building..."

The King is still nearby as the stairs are climbed. As Siffrin approaches the Head Housemaiden.

This time, when she speaks, time doesn't break.

[lucabyte]

I dunno if you’ve seen what’s in the isat artbook yet but there’s a mention in there of id5’s support of she/her Loop which made me think of that great post you made a while ago on Loop gender!!! Just thought I’d let ya know since that post was absolutely foundational to my personal Loop thoughts lol!

ok goofs aside lol hi. first of all: really funny that more than one of you thought of me for this. my powers. and second of all: okay ill actually give my thoughts.

alright so for the uninitiated (THIS POST) (+bonus link to it with extra additions i like) is what these two anons are talking about. It's about 8k words on my like, puzzled-out hard textual read of what i think is up with Siffrin/Loop's gender.

So, re: the artbook content (READMORE ON ACCOUNT OF ME GETTING LONGWINDED AGAIN)

The relevant passages here are pages 113, 38 and 39 (with a sidebar i want to bring up on 89).

I'm going to crop it down to only what is necessary to get to my point because adrienne doesn't want big chunks or full pages posting, so here's my little collage.

113: The page is primarily about finding ways to disguise Loop's true identity, and that's what most of the visuals on the page are about. The note I've cropped [Loop using she/her...] is on the most siffrin looking of these images, just being them sans cloak, eyepatch and hat.

This, to me, reads like the intent at the time was what eventually evolved into Loop's "Royal We" joke misdirect and their they/them only status. Consideration of, 'would just showing off a character nigh identical to sif but with "opposite" pronouns be enough to throw people off the trail?' that I would imagine evolved into just dropping the he/him, since that's more than enough to do so when you also change their appearence to be more ethereal.

*But* ArtbookCommentary!Adrienne is the one saying "She/her Loop is an incredible idea." owing to some level of affinity toward the concept in retrospect. Lends it some creator-branded 'cool points', which aren't worth *much* in terms of Quality of Textual Evidence, but certainly lends it points against being a *bad* read.

So I read this as like, while on it's own, not much more than conjecture when it comes to supporting the idea of transfemme loop-- I think as another arrow in the overall quiver it strengthens that idea that Siffrin is sticking by their he/hims as a like... side effect of how he was born/raised and sees change as something they can't do. It's less a point in support, and more a point *against* it being wrong. (It's like how in science you try to falsify things in order to prove them, y'know? Evidence *against* it being false is different to evidence *for* it being true, but it's almost better that way, sometimes??) Speaks to the idea that Loop would see those pronouns as a Disguise in some way, which to me, when paired with pages 38-39 and the dress* gives the implication that femininity is an untapped well for them. That it's new, and not something they'd do without a plausibly deniable excuse. Which continues to feed into my readings of Siffrin being amab and uncomfortable with change, even if (especially if) they want it in some way. It kind of has to be forced onto them to allow them to try it, because then it's not their choice, now is it?

*The dress is absolutely in reference to the prologue line, isn't it? it being grafted to their skin unlike the other considerations for clothes shown on the page too, aligns with this idea of Loop's body being informed by their wants/feelings about themselves in some way (distinctly inhuman, no need to eat, no need to smile anymore, yet still blind). But where canon!loop has no gendered traits to hold them down anymore, dress!loop would be more of a giveaway of their desires to at least express *some* femininity. (See: my prior essay for further thoughts on how i think that manifests, and my thoughts on it being a somewhat doylist read of the game's themes that i stand by)

(god buddy. you get deeper into the timeloop and it makes you . forget everything . about fucking everything . but the want that bubbles to the surface harder is this? loop. christ im repeating myself again go read my previously linked essay if you arent these two anons i go into way more detail.)

BUT YEAH. yeah.

I think it's a stretch to say things that aren't literally in game, and are still at most discarded exploration of character really count as Evidence for in-game reads, as they are paratext at best-- But. buttttttt buttttttt they do offer a good insight into the intent with which some things were most likely approached. like i say, it's not evidence /for/ my theory, just evidence /against/ me being on the wrong track. But yes i do feel pretty vindicated that this aligns so well with my amab nb siffrin/transfem loop trutherism. Which makes sense, given that the Whole Point of that read was to try and sleuth out the authorial intent, rather than anything else.

Like, i was following a framework in specific of (posts wikipedia screenshot for 'authorial intent')

as opposed to the equally valid Reader-Response framework (under which death of the author also falls)

which is why in that thing i stress so hard that i'm trying to abstain from my own bias (whether or not i succeed? idk. i do break my own rule for a second when pointing out how hard siffrin's fear of change resembles transfem repression in specific as i relate it to my friends and wider observations). but yeah. it was very nice that the artbook aligned so nicely since pairing my readings against the author's own literal words was always going to be the Ultimate Test™ for an authorial-intent based reading.

... oh ! and the sidebar i said i'd have.

Page 89:

get forcibly changed idiot. fucking themes lol (this was also vindicating as a 'loop stays as a star' truther which is something i tie into my themes of gender/sif not accepting change until its forced upon them. but it's not the mostest relevant to the convo without that context. but whee!)

[prism-empurress]

hear me out. ISAT fam + Loop washing a litter of foster kittens. Mirabelle; -comments on their markings and attitudes they may have, sings a bathtime song to help calm the little wigglers down...it doesn't work. -apologizes PROFUSELY for giving every kitten a flea bath + combing through their fur. "I'm sorry little ones! I promise you'll feel better!" -if there's a runaway flea on the ground or the tub she SMASHES it without a second thought. ALL PARASITES MUST DIE. In a cute way~ Bonnie; -keeps giving the kittens bubble beards and hats -VERY THOROUGH COMBING, combs through each kitten at least twice, while washing the comb(s) after each kitten has used it. -makes up names and stories for each kitten. "this one's always stealing snacks from the others, so his name is Bandit. That one is a lover not a fighter, so their name is Cupid." Isabeau; -his hands are big enough for TWO 3-week old kittens each, but he doesn't want to accidentally squish them so he dries off ONE kitten at a time with a fluffy towel...and makes them all have mohawks. -"I'm gonna teach this gang so many cool tricks like skateboarding, jumping through hoops, and how to attack on command." -is 100% going to make clothes for the kittens, like hats and lil suits and dresses. but the clothes are only on for a minute at a time. he makes collars, too, to tell each kitten apart.

Odile; -"ah yes, this one is ready for it's photo shoot." -blow dries and brushes each kitten, while telling all of them how pretty they are, and don't they feel better after being tormented by being WASHED?

-she bottle feeds them too! Siffrin; -makes a nest using his CLOAK plus a few blankets here and there, and lays down in the nest WITH THE KITTENS ON HIM so he's sharing his body heat. I don't know if...crafted incubators can exist? Siffrin the kitten warmer. -"please stop chewing on my face, can you chew on your siblings instead?" -refuses to budge from the nest. "leave me alone, I'm the kitten lord. these are my minions" Loop; -PLUCKS SIFFRIN FROM THE NEST, AND GETS IN THEIR SPOT. -they can probably generate better heat than Siffrin can??

-"I'm the best cuddler, look, the kittens love me. I'm warm, I smell nice, also I don't need to charge!"

[metropolitankei]

Time to ramble a bit about ICAT bc the tag from @the-nintendo-dsi is making me think HARD on this. (Tag below)

Now for the ramble part. Big wall of text incoming!

Vanilla Bean (Siffrin) and Pitaya Panna Cotta (the King) being from the Vanilla Kingdom makes a whole lot of sense.

If you've not watched the story cutscenes for episodes 9 and 10 of Crispia in Cookie Run Kingdom, I'll explain what happens for you. The story takes place in the Vanilla Kingdom, which had been abandoned due to the war between the Ancients and Dark Enchantress Cookie and overrun by cake creatures that follow under her rule.

Because of the kingdom being destroyed in the process, pretty much most of the cookies that lived there had evacuated the place to go to other locations for safety, and those who weren't able to make it out in time had perished. We especially notice this with a lot of the cookies in the upper region of the Creme Republic, especially with one of the elders being from the Vanilla Kingdom (plus it's mentioned that those who evacuated had found home in the Republic thanks to the sea cookies).

Now, onto Vanilla Bean and Pitaya Panna Cotta. Vanilla Bean is the most obvious (due to the name/flavor and the vanilla bean pods being their safety pins on their cloak), but Pitaya Panna Cotta is not as obvious. Before becoming who he is today, he used to just be Panna Cotta. When he arrived in Dragon's Valley after recovering from the evacuation, he went to Pitaya Dragon Cookie to strike a deal: at the cost of gaining the power to freeze time, they infused some Pitaya flavoring into his dough, causing him to go from a regular-sized cookie to a cookie the size of a Dragon without the ability to transform.

Wish Craft does, however, still exist in this AU, as Panna Cotta used Wish Craft to keep control of his time freeze powers, and Vanilla Bean unknowingly uses the same Craft to loop between the same 2 days. It also causes that burning sugar smell that can be noted when Siffrin in the base game is about to loop back when talking to Euphrasie.

Plus, with the whole thing with the Vanilla Kingdom being in the sky, it makes it easier for the Vanillian denizens to do so many things related to the stars, planets, and even the galaxy. This makes it easier for them to position the stars on a star map since they're closer, but transporting the goods are difficult, since they're have to rely on different transportation methods than the Kingdoms on ground level to get the goods around.

Now, for the part relating to the Wish that made color disappear. Instead of making colors disappear, the Wish was for all cookies to forget what the Vanilla Kingdom was like. Was this a trauma response from one of the cookies that evacuated due to the war? Maybe, but that's how nobody remembers the Vanilla Kingdom, just like how nobody in the ISAT world remembers the Forgotten Island.

There's so much more that I could potentially go on about, but this wall of text is already enough.