#not to mention him repeatedly endangering his family's life with little care for the consequences

[tiredg0ds]

i'm thinking about edward and how babied he's been. he's been allowed to sulk and woe is me for a hundred years and no one has ever really called him on his bullshit. sure, he butted heads with rosalie, but that wasn't enough to knock some sense into him. he continues to be completely unsympathetic of other people's trauma and i just think that someone should quite literally knock some sense into him. something wherein he's forced to actually acknowledge how judgemental and unsympathetic he is. where he's forced to actually realize how good he's had it. because, sure, his soul is damned to hell and he's a monster... but he's still lived an extraordinarily privileged life.

[thesummerstorms]

Hello! I Just read the republic commando books, and then I was reading your amazing meta, and i’d like to ask you a question if you don’t mind: what do you think would have happened if Etain or kad or both had died during the birth (not an improbable scenario considering everything)? How would kal, Darman etc, react? (Not that I wanted Etain to die, obviously, I really hated her death scene; wouldn’t have been better if it had been Jusik, killed by clones because of order 66?) Thank you

So…. there’s a lot to unpack with this one and a lot of specific but variable details that could change how even one of the three scenarios plays out, so this will be a little general.

Also, the entire topic of the ask is of course upsetting, so consider this a blanket trigger warning.

All three of the scenarios, frankly, are variations of the Worst Ending ™. I don’t see any of them ending well, although their specific injustices and heartaches have a hell of a lot of room to vary. The one thing I do see staying consistent? 

Kal can’t, or won’t tell the truth.

In no scenario I can think of does Kal play a good or helpful role in all this. He is, after all, the one who had backed Etain into this corner to begin with, and who endangered her and her child. He put her on Qiluura. He isolated her from emotional and medical support. He threatened to kidnap her child and forced her to hide her pregnancy from her lover. None of that is something he never really owns up to and the situation is one he wouldn’t like to have to deal with the consequences of.

Scenario One

If Etain loses Kad during the birth but survives, I absolutely see him manipulating her into keeping quiet about it and pressuring her to return to her command and pretend it didn’t happen. After all, he’s already forced her silence for this long, and repeatedly used her affections for Dar and her guilt to manipulate her reactions. He also doesn’t truly “forgive” and soften towards her until he sees her actually holding Kad.

 In a scenario where Kad doesn’t survive, where pity and a sense of ownership/familial control don’t set in, I think he would absolutely strong-arm her into hiding the fact that she had given birth from Darman, in the name of “protecting” Dar from the grief that is currently tearing her to pieces, and on her returning to front as quickly as possible, “to ease suspicions”. “Why break Darman’s heart when it could distract him and get him killed?”- just a variation on a theme, continuing to ignore Etain’s own loss and agency.

I would absolutely then see that as the beginning of a downward spiral for Etain and her mental health. It the past few years, she’s been repeatedly exposed to war trauma, been “orphaned”, and been emotionally abused. The one certainty in all of it is her belief that the Force meant for her to have this child, that there was something waiting for her at the end of the hardship that was meant to be.

Her grief if that were proven false, if she lost the baby she wanted so desperately, would be immense. More than that, Etain would absolutely be vulnerable to guilt and to Kal’s manipulation, and I 100% believe she could (would) be convinced it was her fault. She was the one who chose to walk into the minefield (stupid). She was the one who got pregnant during a war. (stupid). She was the one who risked, and ultimately lost her child’s life. (Whether or not that’s an entirely fair assessment.) 

From there, it isn’t very far for Kal to lead her to just… not mentioning it to Dar in order to protect him from the misery she’s feeling and “has no right to inflict on him”, especially when he never knew to begin with. (And that’s a little bit more than she can face, the idea of having to tell look Dar in the eye and tell him she lost their baby before he ever knew it existed.)

Etain’s tough in general, but I’m not sure what that would do to her will and ability to cope, especially if grief is compounded by guilt/self-loathing/isolation from the secret, fed into by Kal. I’m not sure if it wouldn’t lead to some self-destructive behavior or reckless decision making.

The only potential good things in this scenario are Rav and Mereel, both of whom she seems to have gotten close to, being nearby ish to maybe notice that Etain is spinning out of control and try to talk to her/ talk her into talking to Darman so she can grieve and heal properly.

How Darman finds out in this scenario… I’m not entirely sure. I can pretty easily seeing him being worried and hurt by the change he sees in Etain’s behaviors towards him- her grief/guilt playing out in unintentional distancing or recklessness. It’s not pretty. But I don’t know how exactly it gets resolved.

 I don’t think Etain herself would want to, or even think to implicate Kal in the mess, not given the way she tried to protect him in Order 66. Even if or when he does find out- I’m not sure the proper amount of guilt would ever find its way to the man who actually hid her/threatened her into the war zone and denied her medical care.

Scenario Two

Etain and Kad both die. Kal 100% abso-fucking-lutely covers this one up and fully intends to hide it from Darman as well. After all, if Etain’s dead anyway and Dar never knew about the kid, why make the grieving process any worse. Somehow he stages a scene that implies Etain died somehow in some secret combat related way that left only enough evidence to be certain, but not enough for a Jedi to gather/examine/bury her remains and discover that she had been pregnant.

Maybe he feels some twinge of guilt- but it isn’t enough to accept responsibility for the loss. And remember- he hasn’t come to see Etain as his yet. Etain and her child are mourned by only a handful- Rav and Vau, Mereel and Ordo, Parja maybe, Jusik. And then Kal does his best to bury them both. He’ll tell Dar “someday”, “at the right time”, “when it won’t get him killed”. Meanwhile Omega is left to deal with it, and to pull around a devastated Darman. Zey is really the only one in the Order to mourn or think about Etain’s death very intensely, and while some of her men might pay respects, no one has time to dig too deep.

Again, who actually ends up telling Darman the truth is an interesting question. Notably in this case, I don’t think it’s Jusik. Jusik is slightly guilty at knowing, I’m sure, but he doesn’t have the full picture, doesn’t know that there was anything more to Etain’s medical issues than random bad luck, and is deeply enough under Kal’s influence to accept the need to protect Darman from that second loss. And while I love to picture some resulting showdown between Rav or Vau and Kal, that’s probably OOC. They just don’t have the strong motivation here.

Ultimately, I think the revelation would have to fall to one of the two Nulls. 

Mereel has been shown in the months Etain spent on Mandalore to have formed a very strong friendship with her. He demonstrates a trust/vulnerability with her that we seldom see him elsewhere. He treats her with an affection that at that point she receives from no one else outside of Omega, including joking nicknames and the ‘ika suffix. He trusted her as a competent individual and as his partner in the work of breaking down Ko Sai. What’s more, Mereel has also demonstrably shown that he loves his brothers (i.e. Darman) more than he loves Kal, and he’d be witnessing Darman suffer/ be lied to and forbidden the right to knowledge and choices. I really don’t imagine that sitting well with him. The only issues being timing and the fact that Darman doesn’t actually know Mereel well at all.

Ordo is a bit trickier, especially since he’s so caught up in the need not to disappoint Kal. His relationship with Etain in True Colors is also trickier. But he pities her- even likes her. Despite the sometimes awkward or harsh tone of their interactions, he does respect her. He was also party to the original deception that kept Dar from knowing about the baby -the baby he would then never know- and got Etain sent away in the first place. It’s not his fault, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he would have to grapple with a pretty intense guilt of his own. That maybe, eventually, that guilt would win.

Again, how Darman reacts is largely based on the circumstance he’s in at the time, which seem to have too many possibilities for me to write through fully.I think he’d be pretty damn mistrustful of everyone afterwards though- and he’d be left to grapple with Etain’s lie of omission without ever being able to resolve it or even talk to her about it. Without ever being able to tell her how much he loved her, how much he would have wanted to raise a child with her.

Scenario Three

Kad lives, Etain dies.

This one I can see going two ways. I would not put it at all past Kal to pull the stunt where he continues to pretend Kad is his biological grandson, even to Omega, “until Dar is ready to be a Dad”. Without Etain there to prove parentage or to push for her right to speak to Dar, and also given that telling the truth would “expose Kad to Jedi” and force Kal to talk about why Etain couldn’t survive childbirth in a galaxy where humans regularly survive the loss of large percentages of their organs and body parts.

In that case, I might actually peg Jusik as the one who ultimately comes clean, particularly as he sees Dar struggling or notices the things Kad’s so clearly inherited from his mother, like the shape of a smile or a way of reaching for the Force. Ultimately, he’s soft-hearted and confesses in a moment of sentiment rather than planning.

Jusik, however, still doesn’t know how entangled in it all Kal is.

It’s also possible Kal tells Darman about the baby in order to try and motivate Dar to keep fighting through his grief/ to provide a “silver lining”- but in this case disguising Etain’s death as an unfortunate/unforeseen accident or stroke of bad luck. Maybe Kal, with his lack of self-awareness, is even convinced that’s what it is. 

That again puts those who know (just Rav, the Nulls, and Vau) in the uncomfortable position of trying to decide whether it’s worth it to tell Darman the truth, given what he’s already lost. Telling, after all, won’t bring Etain back, won’t heal Darman any. It will just drive a wedge between Kal and Dar and add to the pain of the whole mess.

Vau might do it- Vau is a monster, but he is honest about what he is, and he is frustrated by Kal’s self-deception and back pats. Darman has no reason to trust Vau over Kal, though, and doesn’t take it well, even in the face of gnawing, quiet doubt.

Mereel might do it- as a warning, in Etain’s memory, to try and urge his brother to keep his nephew just that little bit safer, even if none of them can easily walk away from Kal.

In the end, though, Darman is still left with that permanently unresolved doubt, that same argument with Etain that never happened about her secret keeping, is left with all the things he should have but couldn’t have said. There isn’t any justice in this scenario, not with her already lost. There’s only clarity.

[kingofthewilderwest]

When you are done with season 4 of race to edge what do you think are the pro and cons of the season and what do you hope for season 5?

Alright! I’ve just finished RTTE S4, and I would looooove to discuss pros and cons. I’ll make a list of some favorite small moments later, but here I will talk about big overarching pros and cons. Heads up to people that, because I’m talking pros and cons, I will get into both celebrations and constructive criticism. I’m not intending to rain on anyone’s parade by giving my comments on what I think could be better; I’m just being honest about the things that aren’t my favorite, and which I think are important to recognize… and I can at the same time recognize the show’s weaknesses and be a celebrating fan of the strengths.

Big Pros of RTTE S4

Book References Galore. I am always a fan of book references in the HTTYD show. This season contained a lot of instances which reminded me of the books. Whether or not that was intentional from the writers, it still gives book lovers a means of identify with elements they find familiar. In this season, we got book-like things including but not limited to:

A dragon which can only be birthed in the middle of a volcano.

Bat-like dragons.

Fishlegs calling Hiccup his best friend.

Snotlout feeling threatened by Hiccup’s role as a leader and trying to subvert it and become a great leader himself - be it king, or at least the leader over the other youths. Snotlout pretends to deliberate about killing Hiccup. He gets to be a little more antagonistic than usual when he’s trying so desperately to show that he’s great leader material, hoping so much that he won’t be overshadowed by the others. But in the end, he charges out and risks his life to save Hiccup.

An oft-used phrase in the book, “Easy peasy lemon squeezy,” came right out of Snotlout’s mouth.

Viggo and Ryker’s Relationship Splintering. I was hoping as early as S2 that the writers were setting up a fracturing between Ryker and Viggo. Ryker, after all, tells Heather that he listens to Viggo because they’re family. However, Viggo’s treatment of Ryker is poor. That’s good material for a set-up and character development… and we got it! We started to see hints of it in S3. 

It explodes in S4.

Ryker and Viggo, and their character developments, were probably my favorite thing about this season.

As early as the first episode, we see Ryker smiling when Viggo’s plans are thwarted. Ryker sticks by Viggo, but with increasingly-seen ill treatment on Viggo’s part, and increasingly irritated responses from Ryker, we at last get a split in Shell Shocked. Ryker has had enough of Viggo, and Viggo doesn’t have enough respect for Ryker for this to end well. Of course we still don’t know all the details about what all was planned and what was staged, but it seems Ryker did go rogue against his brother. It was nice to see this character, who was often overshadowed by Viggo, take charge and have this development.

Not to mention how both of the characters ended in Shell Shocked Part 2? Me likey. That was really cool. These appear to be both real deaths, and they are “fitting” for what the characters were. Ryker was a man of violence and strength; he got pulled underwater in the midst of a battle he waged himself. Viggo sought to gain profits and control dragons through the Dragon Eye; him diving to try to save the Dragon Eye shows his own motivations leading to his end.

It’s also very fitting that the Dragon Eye got destroyed. I was talking about how the Dragon Eye had to become inaccessible to both the dragon riders and the dragon hunters at some point in time. There’s no way for the story to get resolved otherwise. And it happened! I was happy to see the Dragon Eye finally return to the plot, and for us to see why it won’t be in Hiccup’s hands by the time of HTTYD 2.

Hiccstrid. I’m not an active Hiccstrid shipper myself (as you guys probably have heard me say many times, I almost never ship anything, and I prefer to focus on platonic and familial bonds), so I’m listing this one mostly for you guys, haha. XD I know that Hiccstrid shippers are probably going to be happy with what happened in this season! Flirtations, words of devotion, multiple kisses, all that happened. Haha, Snotlout even said “Hiccstrid” on screen! The slow boil toward their relationship has finally come to fruit, and it’s quite relieving to see.

I think what I appreciate the most was Hiccup supporting Astrid in Blindsided. The words of support he gave her were wonderful, thoughtful, deep, considerate. We have often seen throughout the franchise Astrid supporting Hiccup emotionally. This is a key moment in which we see Hiccup demonstrate great love, devotion, and support to Astrid in turn. The words he chose were nicely done. I appreciated that a lot.

Big Cons of RTTE S4

Recurring Plot Devices. I know the creators were excited about some of their planned plot twists, but the truth of the matter is that they tend to reuse the same plot devices repeatedly. 

Especially, one plot device they love is when Hiccup has to ally himself with the enemy. This has been done with:

Mildew in “We Are Family Part 2″

Alvin the Treacherous in “Cast Out Part 2″

Dagur the Deranged in “Enemy of My Enemy” and “Family on the Edge”

Krogan, soooooooort of, in “Midnight Scrum”

And now Viggo Grimborn in “Shell Shocked Part 2″

It is to note that the multiple redemption arcs - as with Alvin and Dagur - show repetition, too. I will say, though, it was nice for Viggo to not be completely redeemed. He still betrayed Hiccup in the end, and I appreciated that. But as far as the ally-with-the-enemy arc is concerned… that is starting to feel a little worn out, now.

Other recurring plot devices include Dragon’s Edge being attacked by dragon hunters; one of the youths being captured or kidnapped by the enemy; and, of course, a new dragon being first dangerous but then tamed.

Weak Character Motivations. It’s not that motivations are absent. It’s that they’re not neatly connected together or expounded upon to any realistic level. Character motivations move in sudden jerks forward rather than smooth progressions. Lots of the time the character motivations are explained weakly enough that they seem extremely unrealistic toward how a person would actually react in that situation.

Dagur goes from being an enemy with ASPD symptoms… to being a tentative ally with regrets… to being a genuinely good guy who cares deeply for his sister, the other riders, and endangered dragons. They do rudimentarily explain why he goes from one mental state to the next, but it never feels convincing. Part of that is that no one just magically drops an antisocial personality. Another part of it is that we don’t see a good, smooth progression from one phase to the next. The writers put in a little bit of transition material, but never enough.

Another example is Heather and her relationship with Dagur. There was not enough material for her switching from loathing Dagur… to being uncomfortable with his “death”… to being completely comfortable around him and welcome to deep physical touch. While we get the gist of why it happened, the way in which it is presented is very unconvincing and doesn’t at all feel like how people psychologically function. It’s pushing it at best. I’m not a fan of these sorts of things being misconstrued because it can have consequences for how we handle the dangerous and toxic people in our own lives.

We have other inconsistent character motivations on top of that, along with lots of weak plot devices arising out of this, but yeah. Character motivations are not as well progressed as they should be.

Sexism. This is nothing new to the show; it’s been present since Riders of Berk and onward. It’s been bothering me increasingly more with each new season released, likely because it hasn’t gotten better (the only thing that’s gotten better is no longer using “girl” as an insult). Especially for RTTE S3 and S4, I’ve felt distinctly uncomfortable with DreamWorks Dragons’ treatment of gender. It’s just come to a point that they should have fixed their mistakes by now, except they keep perpetuating.

Default gender in the show is undeniably male. The rule of how everything works in this show is “male until proven otherwise.” Seriously though. Essentially every single individual we meet is a man, be it human or dragon. Somehow every single new introduced dragon in the show is called a “he,” despite that being highly statistically unlikely. There are even several cases in which an obvious female has been called “he.” Given as we see no other Eruptodons around, it seems likely the egg had to have been laid by the dragon on the island. Sure, we can finagle around and give decently-conjured explanations for how this dragon could still be male, but by all accounts, it’s weird. We shouldn’t, in Defenders of the Wing Part 1, call THAT dragon a “he.” Even more clearly, Chicken is a chicken - a female member of that species, obviously so by the bird’s physical features. Tuffnut even hallucinates the chicken speaking to him in a female voice. Aaaaand yet both Stoick - and in this latest season, Tuffnut himself - call Chicken “he.” No. The chicken is female. That’s literally as bad as animating a cow with an udder and calling it a “he.” It’s that obviously female. How are we messing this up? Because the default gender of anything is male in this show.

Next, there are some stereotypes and unflattering tropes of women that sneak into the show. In so many movies, television shows, and novels, a woman is often only introduced when she has a romantic relationship with one of the male characters. While there are plenty of male characters who are not in a romantic relationship in media, it is much harder to find a woman who doesn’t at least flirt with a man and have that be a major point of her time on screen. It means that, as humorous as some people might find the Snotlout x Mala (Snala? Snotla? Malout???) dynamics, it’s not the most fun thing to see yet another female character’s role being heavily centered around whether or not she’s in a non-platonic relationship with someone.

Damselstrid happens a little too often for comfort. I know that many Hiccstrid shippers probably enjoy seeing Hiccup and Astrid caring for one another in precarious situations. I do admit that there were some good lines especially in Blindsided. Nevertheless, it is awkward to see the disparity between Astrid saving Hiccup versus Hiccup saving Astrid. This also have been around since forever, but it’s increasingly obvious with S3 and S4.

Astrid will save Hiccup in very short, quick minor moments in combat, such as by blocking enemy fire. But it’s never played up for drama. They’re gone before you know they’ve happened. In the one episode where Hiccup really needed saving because he’s kidnapped, it’s to note that the entire team (Stoick at the forefront) - not Astrid - save him. The other time Hiccup majorly needed saving because he was drowning… he was saved by a dragon. Astrid never gets the big save when Hiccup is most vulnerable.

By contrast, Astrid will constantly be in precarious positions in which she seems more desperate and in greater, longer danger. There have been two episodes dedicated entirely to Astrid being in a helpless situation and Hiccup needing to save her - Buffalord Soldier and Blindsided. Additionally, we can add several more instances of Astrid being in danger, like the very end of Shell Shocked Part 2, or when she’s about to burn up in Out of the Frying Pan. And when she is in these extremely vulnerable situations, we’ll often hear her murmur, “Hiccup.” It’s a suggestion that Hiccup is what is important and Hiccup is what’s going to save her. Even though Astrid is the best warrior of the youths, she is put into far more vulnerable positions than most of the other riders, and Hiccup almost always is the specific individual who gallantly saves her.

I could keep going about how there were also some outdated notions of gender sneaked in the show dialogue, too, but I’ll stop here. Essentially, sexism. It’s definitely in RTTE.

Season 5 Hopes

I don’t have too many thoughts on what I want for season 5 currently. Maybe ask me in a few months. At the moment, all I can think about is that we’re going to have to address that exploding volcano on Dragon’s Edge, and we’re definitely not done with Krogan.

In many ways, the end of S4 is the end of the big plot arc we got starting in S1. Seasons 1 through 4 are a unit, it looks like. It’s the story of Hiccup going against the dragon hunters. That ending has got to be the ending of the plot arc with Ryker and Viggo. So where season 5 turns? It’ll be a little bit of a new direction.

We’ve got some seeds planted with Krogan, I suppose, but really not much to work on. You could almost just completely end the show with S4. We got Hiccstrid together. Viggo, Dagur, and Ryker are no longer threats. The Dragon Eye is no longer around to investigate. It’s just that volcano blast and the fact the creators said there would be more episodes that means this is going to continue.

There’s a weird small part of me that wants Savage to come back. I don’t think they’ll do it, but I suddenly saw potential, and actually relished the small moment of Savage’s return. He had a wonderful return with great motivation. I’m assuming they’re just going to ride him off as inept, and this is the last we see of him. But there’s also a lot of potential for him to try to do something big. But I suspect we won’t see him, that it would detract from other plot stuff they would want to do, and so on and so forth.

So they’re likely going to keep sneaking toward Krogan and stuff with plot development? But how they’re going to do that without interfering with the plotline of HTTYD 2, I am not sure.