#obligatory yes I know this is unhealthy irl

[crepuscular-coyote]

Love is not enough. I need a mutual obsession.

Someone who will burn down the world for me if I ask them to, knowing that I would gladly maul anyone for them in return like the pathetic mutt I am.

Someone who will love me in all of my monstrosity, whose eyes will never wander, because being without me is like lacking oxygen. And I will be forever faithful with unwavering loyalty, as my person is perfection- they're everything I will ever need.

[tciddaemina]

What is the weirdest, feralest headcanon you've had about a character?

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. fuck okay this takes some thinking. weird and feral, weird and feral, hmmm.

okay, i think i have one. i'm gonna preface this by saying that svsss is a story that brings out the weird in me - the characters are all so messed up and dysfunction and weird about each other and the world is so intense and strange that its very tasty to play with. like, both the characters, plot, and setting are all so chewy and crunchy, you can just sink you're teeth right in.

bc like okay (bingqiu and monsterfucking cw here, for anyone who would prefer to keep scrolling) Shen Qingqiu and Luo Binghe are so utterly weird and fucked up about each other. Like, full on dysfunctionally obsessed in a way that would be like horror story levels if they were with anyone but each other (yes, even Shen Qingqiu - he is literally so obsessed with PIDW and Luo Binghe that he dies mad over it, and then spends his entire new life orbiting Luo Binghe like a planet around a sun, knowing absolutely every detail of his would-be life and who he is and what his deepest inner thoughts and traumas are - like, unreliable narrator or not, Shen Qingqiu is every bit as messed up and intense about Luo Binghe as Luo Binghe is about him).

and that's something that's very fun to play with. like, their relationship is intense, codependent, obsessive, and like, a hundred other things that irl would be a red flag, but its fiction. i know some people don't like writing or reading about unhealthy relationships or stuff that in an irl situation would be concerning, but like tbh the fact that they're so messed up and intense is half the reason they're so fun to write for. (obligatory fiction =/= reality).

anyway so, yeah they have a messed up very obsessive relationship and one of the things that's sort of fun to play with is how far they'd go for each other. like, how far their affection stretches, and how that would influence their reactions to situations. and you know me, i'm a good fan of some of that eldritch and monster content.

bc right like, these two are utterly fixated on each other. just, utterly gone. and so yeah, headcanon, i feel like both of these guys wouldn't blink an eye at even the most weird, off the page monster-fucking you have ever seen, if the person was the other one.

okay so right - on Shen Qingqiu's side we already have some pretty eldritch stuff to work with. like he's literally a bodysnatcher who took over someone else who would have/did die, and assumed his identity and pretty much got away with it. and you can spin that up into something even more fun. like maybe Luo Binghe, being half demon and with heavenly demon blood, has a bit of idk, extrasensory perception or something like that. so he wakes up one morning in the woodshed to this immense feeling of just DREAD hanging over the mountain, which no one else seems to be feeling or reacting to. and it only gets worse when he's summoned to see his master, to the point where approaching the bamboo house is literally making him break out in a cold terrified sweat. and when he see's Shen Qingqiu he just freezes, because looming above his master's body is an immense faceless shadowy figure with a dozen arms, whose body is sewn through with bleeding golden thread, which runs down to his master's body, stitching the two together. and then the plot continues like normal, and this new not-Shen Jiu gives him the medicine, and Luo Binghe gets used to the feeling of immense eldritch dread and the plot plays out like normal with Luo Binghe still being like 😍😍😍 and still absolutely being dtf this terrifying towering shadow bleeding figure.

and its so tasty! because you can flip it around as well. Luo Binghe would 1000% willingly and enthusiastically monsterfuck for Shen Qingqiu, but Shen Qingqiu would also do the same for him (albeit with a bit more crisis about it, but only so far as him "not being gay" is the problem. the fact that Luo Binghe is a monster barely registers).

and so like - alright, another situation. Say Luo Binghe's demon heritage is a bit more intense than just 'gets a demon forehead mark and some demonic energy' and that when he gets hucked into the endless abyss and is forced to survive its brutal conditions, his human form can't tolerate it and the rest of his inheritance comes through. and you could play with a few things here - maybe something dragon-like (not in a, ooh this a sexy dragon person kind of way, but like, Luo Binghe is literally a dragon kind of way, scarred and fire-breath and dark edgy scales and all), or something a bit more demonic and eerie. but like, whatever you go with, the end result is that Luo Binghe is distinctly non-humanoid and deeply scary-looking. and so when Luo Binghe does claw his way out of the abyss, Shen Qingqiu is *shocked pikachu face* about it, because this didn't happen in the original. and idk, maybe Luo Binghe goes through a whole thing of visiting Shen Qingqiu in his dreams, and being very circumspect, and never actually turns up in person in front of him, bc Luo Binghe is deeply insecure and is certain Shen Qingqiu will be revolted or terrified and reject him as a monster (after all, he threw him into the abyss when he looked human, what would he do seeing Luo Binghe like this?). eventually it comes out and Shen Qingqiu ends up face to face with him, and Luo Binghe's trying to cringe and shy away and throw himself on his sword or whatever, and Shen Qingqiu is just like shut up! monster or not you're still my student! and anyway, Luo Binghe ends up staying with Shen Qingqiu again or something, and they do a dumb thing where they're basically speed running a long term relationship without realising (well, Luo Binghe realises, and he's tormented about it, bc on the one hand he wants all the affection he can get from Shen Qingqiu, on the other hand he's got paralyzing guilt about the fact he's sort of taking advantage) and it culminates in Shen Qingqiu finally cottoning on and having a panic about it (about the gay bit, more than the monster bit) before sorting it out and 100% being down to bang Luo Binghe anyway, despite him not being remotely human looking. And Luo Binghe is just dying, because like, you know a person really loves you when they love you even when you're a terrifying non-human monster, and Shen Qingqiu is discovering all sorts of things about himself, namely how little he bats an eye at the thought of doing some truly obscene monsterfucker shit - because it's Binghe, so of course its hot (nevermind that Shen Qingqiu is a bit too into monsters away, so is sort of also getting a kick out of it just for the chance to study monster!Binghe so up close)

And anyway this is how you get me idly considering story ideas like 'hey what if Shen Qingqiu and Luo Binghe got dropped messily into a scifi setting and Shen Qingqiu glitched on the way because of system and so ends up in a terrifying carnivorous!super-dangerous!mantis-monster-person!body, still dressed in his robes, while Binghe is still basically just a normal person who looks the same, and they get gently arrested by the galactic police who are like "holy shit what the fuck is this walking person-eater doing in the port, it's about to be a bloodbath" whereas Binghe, beside him is just like "don't you dare be mean to my husband, shizun is very gentle!" and anyway Shen Qingqiu diffuses things enough for them to get escorted to a fancy suite (jail cell) while things get looked into, and the poor people surveilling them have to watch in rapt horror/awe as Binghe goes about seducing Shen Qingqiu, who is sure Luo Binghe must be revolted by his terrifying new form, while Luo Binghe proves that absolutely isn't the case. Shizun is shizun no matter his body, and Luo Binghe loves every version of him, and is absolutely so so keen to get it on and explore this new body'

and so that's how i get to there, and then i have to think about the fact that the premise is so absolutely wild and out of the left field that i would have no idea how to justifying coming up with it or wanting to write it. so yeah, wild and feral headcanon - Luo Binghe and Shen Qingqiu are absolutely monsterfuckers, but only ever for each other

[eisforeidolon]

Hope you don't mind continuing this discussion about John. I do agree that John is neither perfect nor irredeemable, but the reason I called it unhealthy instead of abuse is because I feel it's only abuse if normal world standards are applied to SPN. Take an equivalent to their situation irl: a mother and her two sons are running from a war zone and she has to often leave her eldest to look after her youngest while she tries to find a way to end the threat. Is that still neglect and abuse?

It might just be semantics but I don't think what John does would be judged as abuse given their situation. Of course there's more to it like how much of Azazel's plan did he figure out and when, but it still comes down to whether or not John was right to keep this info from his kids, rather than whether or not he was abusive to do so. From what info John had, he was operating on a battlefield and his kids are both what he wants to protect and soldiers. He didn't choose that, so is it abuse?

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I don't mind. Starting out with the obligatory I am not an expert by any means disclaimer? So far as I understand it, especially with certain kinds of emotional abuse, the important factors in whether or not it's considered abuse is less about intent and more whether it's part of an overarching pattern (yes) and whether it seriously fucks up the mental state of whoever it's inflicted on (yes). So both with John and your example, even in a fictional setting? I don't see abuse as some all capital letters buzzword of doom that makes a parent an uncaring monster whereas if they just make unhealthy choices that's totally different.

This is not to say that I disagree with you that extraordinary circumstances make no difference! I do think in terms of neglect and abuse our definitions and laws are based on average circumstances. However, I'm less inclined to quibble over what words you label those bad choices with as I am to want to discuss ultimately how avoidable they were.

I hope you don't mind me tweaking your example a bit? Let's say your mother in a war zone is leaving the kids like that to find food, or to lead a threat away from them, or some kind of imminent danger. It's still traumatic for the kids (though it'd be hard to separate out how much is general situation trauma and how much from skewed familial roles). Yet I don't think even the most twisted psychologist would try to argue that dead kids is better than traumatized kids. She doesn't have a better choice, but that doesn't mean her choice isn't an ongoing pattern of behavior that is going to scar those kids. Most people wouldn't want to call that abuse because of the connotations of fault it carries, even if it functionally has the same results to the kids' mental health. On that score, there's not a whole lot of difference between if she is actually protecting them from a real war - or suffering from paranoid delusions that have her locking her kids in their house to protect them from one in her head.

I think what makes John so divisive is that it's not so clear how much what he chooses to do is actually unavoidable. He does have legitimate fears about his kids being able to protect themselves from monsters generally, Azazel specifically, of having his kids taken away and being left unprotected, etc. Yet we also know that he had allies he trusted, even ones he trusted with his kids. We know the boys stayed with Pastor Jim, Bobby, and at least one other babysitter at various times. Yet there were still times he left them to fend for themselves, possibly prioritizing whatever specific random VotW over his kids' safety - and it's not all later season John dumping, either, with Something Wicked right in season one. Then there's the question of how much acting "more like a drill sergeant than a father" was truly necessary. Sam's got his own issues, but when John's choices ultimately left Dean with such an absolutely fucked up sense of self worth that (among other things) he thinks it's worth it to sell his soul to hell because it was "his job" to save Sam and "he failed"? Especially back when he thought Sam cared so little that he would be able to just go live a normal life while his brother was in hell because of him? You think it's really so out of the question to call that abuse, even considering the extraordinary circumstances?

I mean, I personally consider myself John neutral, but I can see both why people defend him (it was an impossible situation and he himself was traumatized and ill-equipped to deal) and hate his guts (his choices permanently fucked up his sons and it's possible to believe there were better ones that still would have protected them).