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gemsofgreece · 1 month

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Some thoughts on the Homeric Age and the Early Archaic Period

Based on my reading of the Iliad and the Odyssey in the original Homeric Greek text and a fairly loyal Modern Greek rendering

I had read these in middle school but, you know, fewer things stick with you when you do them as a chore. I was interested in reading them again, not so much for the already familiar stories, but for what I could take from them and conclude about the Greek society more than 2800 years ago! I must note that it is unclear how accurately the poet(s?) - let’s say Homer - portrays the Homeric Age and events that supposedly took place more than four centuries before his time. The question is, are we truly getting a picture of the Homeric age or at least an archaic Greek society? My opinion is that the epics must have been a reflection of some early Greek era indeed and not be entirely imaginary. Most historians believe Homer does a fairly decent job at preserving cultural and social elements of an age long gone even for him, although it’s undoubtable there is a lot of infiltration with elements of his own times too.

Peace and War

It is interesting that even though the Iliad is a war themed epic and graphic violence and gore are not missed in the Odyssey either, both the characters of the epics (who are famed warriors more often than not) and the poet - narrator acknowledge war as a great evil that causes a lot of pain to people. Even the victors pillaging and taking slaves have total awareness and understanding that a slave or a defeated enemy are suffering a lot. It seems it is a man’s duty to confront that great evil and be decently prepared and trained for it, however it is not a situation that most have a special yearning for. Most men agree that there is nothing like having peace and enjoying your companies and families, however it was a great shame for a man to step back once war broke out. A war or a fight or any argument would be ignited usually by acts of injustice or great offence that should be obligatorily punished immediately, even if the offended would deep inside rather stay at home. As an example, Odysseus murders violently all of Penelope’s suitors and twelve girl slaves who betrayed his wife and slept willingly with them. He does not waver at all, despite the pleas for mercy. When his oldest servant and nanny sees the gruesome scene with all the dead, she rejoices and cheers. Odysseus then scolds her, for “anybody’s death should never be a reason for joy”. So we have this somewhat contradictory stance in a society which proclaims itself peaceful and fair yet it takes too little to outrage and urge at acts of vengeance and violence. Violence and war are seen as measures that must be taken and that one must not recoil from but there is wide acknowledgment that war and death brought to others should not be desired or enjoyed. It was definitely not among cultures that viewed war or conquest as some sort of sacred destiny or pride. But it also did not take much for them to find excuses for a war or a fight.

Religion

Despite misconceptions that Ancient Greeks were always very anthropocentric and put logic and the potency of the human mind above all else, it is certain that at least up to the Archaic period this was not the case. Ancient Greeks of those early eras were very religious and attributed almost everything to their deities. The fate of a person is sealed from the beginning and the gods are well aware of it. Even the achievements or mistakes of great people are viewed as interventions by the gods. Although Odysseus is repeatedly praised for his intelligence and resourcefulness, it is almost always a god (Athena) who enlightens him on how to act or what to say. Misfortune is also entirely attributed to the gods - if a character suffers great misfortune, it is not so much because of their own misjudgment, the elements of nature or ill luck, but because some god is angered with them or has a special liking for their enemy.

Behavioural patterns

The most notable pattern in the behaviour of characters in the epics is that it is temperamental with plenty of mood swings. Granted, we should always keep into account that they are just ancient poems and maybe the care for gradual character development or realistic character consistency was not one of the priorities for ancient poets. If we do however still attempt to draw any conclusions, we observe people who are quick to judge, offend, get angry, praise, admire, get emotional, forgive. Some of these mood swings happen in minutes. Certainly this must not be realistic but it may be a sign the Ancient Greek people were that temperamental, quick to hate and quick to love. Another crucial observation, maybe a trademark trait of the Greek ethnos, it is apparent throughout the epics that the Greeks are people who love to talk a lot, they are argumentative and they enjoy discourse. Characters unfold their thoughts and feelings extensively and they do not shy away from being vulnerable. Furthermore, their speeches are bold and often candid; they can use strong language for the flaws of people they love and they add praises even in speeches against their enemies! In other words, they generally call it what it is - they are upfront about the flaws and the virtues of those they speak to. One last observation, they tend to be suspicious of others. There is an ongoing theme of trying, testing old friends and loved ones even when this is distressing to the other person and even though the events alone prove those people’s love and testing them really is superfluous and just shows a very suspicious, disbelieving nature. Of course, testing your loved ones is a huge recurring theme in international literary work ever since, therefore once again it would be reasonable to consider that even if those tendencies existed, they were exaggerated for the sake of the poems and the prolonged entertainment of the audience.

Objectivity

Perhaps the most fascinating aspect of reading the Homeric epics for me is how the author is largely removed from taking sides. Homer does like Odysseus, that is evident, however as a narrator he almost never speaks ill of any character. Any accusations are only made by characters against other characters. The narrator himself acknowledges positive traits in most characters or at the very least remains neutral. Even more interestingly, this expands to an ethnic level. Even though the epics are written by a Greek for the Greeks, there is resolutely no hatred or prejudice against any other culture mentioned. Trojans, Thracians, Aethiopians and many others are all acknowledged for their own virtues each and the narrator does not resent any for fighting against the Greeks. It is clear that at the time, discrimination and hate speech against other nations and cultures had not yet gotten to people’s minds that much. I found it very wonderful and interesting that a war text from 800 BC could master more objectivity and level-headedness than 99% of texts written in the 19th century around the world.

Women

[This part is a little longer so I am putting the rest of the post under a cut]

Classical Greece is notorious for how oppressed its women were, however either things were better for them a few centuries prior or the truth was more nuanced. Of course, we are undoubtedly talking about a deeply patriarchal society in which women were expected to restrict themselves in their own rooms and have little concern besides their kids and weaving. In spite of this, the poems are full of considerations and respect towards numerous women and seem to have them in a type of regard that is rarely mentioned in historians’ documentations. Women are portrayed with diverse personalities and the vast majority are presented as positive role models. In fact, there is only one woman who is mentioned in a downright negative way and that is Clytemnestra, but it’s only her husband who does this as well. Other than her, there is rarely if ever negative talk against other women. Even Helen is never treated badly by anybody; Helen is only ever criticised by herself. When she returns to Sparta, her people, Menelaus and visitors such as Telemachus seem to honour her as if nothing ever happened. Helen joins them in their festivities, is portrayed as more perceptible than Menelaus and always voices her thoughts in the overwhelmingly masculine company. Arete and Nausicaa are also significant female characters and they are more crucial to the safe return of Odysseus than King Alcinous. Penelope is one of the leading characters; her thoughts, feelings and turmoil interest the poet (and apparently the ancient audience) in a large part of the Odyssey, no less than the feelings of Odysseus himself. The input of women is often welcomed and considered - it is not taken into account usually when it gets in the way of plans that have to do with war and fighting or when the position of a male might be challenged in front of others. For example, Telemachus evidently loves and respects his mother but he eventually feels ashamed that he is becoming a grown man, the future king, that cannot get rid of his mother’s suitors and he often scolds her when she takes decisions regarding these matters in his and the suitors’ presence. Other than that, mothers in general are viewed as sacred and respectable. Odysseus, a mature manly warrior, is seen yearning for his mother’s embrace.

In Nausicaa we see that perhaps women could also go outdoors and have fun when accompanied by their maids. Nausicaa and her maids wash the clothes close to the shore and in the meantime they entertain themselves by playing with a ball until the sunset, with the permission of her parents.

The pain and turmoil of slave girls is seen and understood. Odysseus kills twelve of his fifty slave women because they betrayed him. The rest who remained loyal to the family rush to welcome him back - Odysseus hugs them all and weeps. This scene is beautiful because there is nothing resolutely sexual implied - it is clear that his relationship to them was more genuine than that of a master and his servants, they were also his protégées. He cared enough to weep for meeting again his female servants - this shows that even an unfree working girl could be impactful enough to a powerful man’s life without this necessarily involving sex. The slaves he killed received a shameful death but even so Telemachus explains to them why such a death is chosen for them as if he tries to excuse it. Meanwhile, there is not any hint of apologism when it comes to the gruesome amputation and murder of the male traitor. It seems it was viewed as more dubious for a man to kill a woman, whereas a man killing a man was viewed as a punishment or as a heroic act, depending on the context.

Goddesses are portrayed totally unapologetic; they clearly have the freedom to do morally questionable deeds without being judged by the mortals’ standards.

One very interesting detail is that when men converse with women, which happens a LOT in the Odyssey and not just between married couples, men often refer to gods as husbands of goddesses. For example, when Odysseus talks to Nausicaa or Penelope, he addresses Zeus as “Hera’s Zeus”. This is clearly a subtle attempt at honouring the woman the man is talking to - it stresses that even a god belongs to a goddess, even the father of all gods, is Hera’s man. This is not to question Zeus’ leadership among the gods or portray males as possessions of females but it is a way to respect the woman opposite them by acknowledging their own influence and importance. “Even Zeus is Hera’s Zeus, therefore I have the highest regard for you, my lady.” I believe this was the spirit and I thought it was a wonderfully subtle way to show regard for a woman.

Love, lust and sex

What I found the most interesting regarding romantic relationships is the impression I got that emotional connection and respect seemed to be more telling of someone’s devotion than physical intimacy. It seems that married men could get away with having sex with slave girls (not free women) as long as they did not sleep in the same bed or maintain a deeper emotional relationship with them. For Helen, it seems it was worse that she followed Paris away rather than that her being with him included having sex together. There is also totally the concept of casual sex of which goddesses seem to have a good understanding. Mortal women on the other hand can openly voice their sexual desire and take the initiative to have and enjoy sex but only when it is with their husband, but they are sometimes depicted to have willingly casual relationships (Odysseus’ working girls with the suitors), which is however a choice that is fatally punished by the master once he returns. However, it wasn’t so much the act of casual sex they got executed for but more so that it was with the suitors who were exploiting Odysseus’ riches and loved ones. There is a distinction in the Odyssey between women who eagerly entered sexual relationships with the suitors and others who were raped by them. I don’t claim it was entirely clear but to my understanding, the latter welcome Odysseus back and are not punished. Another interesting fact is that although Penelope is admired for her loyalty to Odysseus, she was not in fact socially obligated to grieve him for so long. Telemachus himself declares he is happy his mother is so loyal to her husband, however he would also be okay with her marrying somebody once he became of age. (It would also be convenient as the suitors would finally leave him alone.) Both Telemachus and the suitors repeatedly leave it to Penelope herself to pick whomever she fancies best, with the optional advice of her father. There is a small part that suggests some people would still gossip negatively if she took a new husband, however it was clearly totally acceptable for her to do so. Just like Penelope, Nausicaa, a maiden, is always concerned about what people will think, however when alone with Odysseus or her maids, she makes her attraction to him discreetly clear. I also found the men’s approach to love and sex very interesting. Men are depicted equally as capable of sexual desire, abstinence, indifference or even being sexually coerced. By the standards of the era, Odysseus is really as loyal to Penelope as she is to him, given that his infidelity was with two goddesses, one with a notorious love for potions and another who clearly kept him her prisoner.

When he returns to Ithaca, he keeps up a stone-faced fake identity for too long but when he reveals himself, he gradually becomes frustrated with Penelope’s cold and doubtful reception. We are told that apparently Odysseus was very invested in his marriage with Penelope, given the strenuous work he willingly did with his own hands to build and decorate their bedroom. When the couple reunites, Athena literally has to prolong the night for them to just weep together, cuddle, tell their sufferings (and have sex) enough. It just gives us a picture of a mutually respectful marriage where the wife is just as invaluable to the husband. Men are also depicted to have shame for their nudity, which is something that might seem surprising given the classical obsession with the body. Odysseus feels it is shameful, vulnerable and inappropriate to be seen, touched or washed by female servants, especially when he is significantly older than them. He also feels embarrassed for his looks under the female eyes. Lastly, in the Homeric epics women are ultimately the object of men’s desire. There is actually no mention of homosexual attraction. The only questionable moment, on which the entirety of the later speculations were founded, is when Achilles has a dream of deceased Patroclus and he express his wish to die and be buried together. Other than that, having sexual desire is exclusively expressed for women or, interestingly, by women in these two epics.

Other types of love such as friendships and familial relationships are full of vulnerability and expression as well. Men, fathers, sons, friends hug, cry and narrate their misfortunes openly and vulnerably. Grown men are still recipients of beautiful kind words as Thetis does with Achilles and as Penelope and even the swineherd Eumaeus, who operates as a paternal figure, do with Telemachus (both call him “sweet light”). (As a sidenote, it is clearly viewed as the right thing for a noble person to be close, caring and accessible to his servants and slaves.) Arete and Alcinous also treasure their daughter Nausicaa.

The most moving part of all, Odyssey might be the first text noting the literally undying love, devotion and wisdom of dogs. While Odysseus at the moment is in disguise and can’t show much affection or then grieve his dog Argos, it is clear that Homer wouldn’t bother adding that part if the Greek people hadn’t already started forming loving bonds with pets.

Stools

Boy they loved stools.

Conclusion

If there is any accuracy in Homer’s epics, then the late Homeric / early Archaic society was a society that generally tried to be peaceful and always measured the profit and cost from a war expedition but the equilibrium was really fragile and very often disturbed. People were religious, opinionated, argumentative, talkative and temperamental but they also valued loyalty, honour, hospitality, patience and bravery. They loved dearly and were fearlessly expressive, however they were also quick to anger and suspicion. It was a very patriarchal society, however women had their own way of being respected and reckoned. Sexual desire was seen as natural and expected in both sexes, however there were limitations to how upfront or open it could be in its expression. These limitations affected both women and men, but to different degrees or ways.

BONUS!

An examination of similarities and differences between this society and later / current stages of Greek society:

Some obvious similarities are that Greeks have indeed always been temperamental with considerable mood swings and a tendency for suspicion. There are hints of cryptical behaviour in the epics though and I would say that later and current Greeks are also notable for this (contrary to popular belief). Modern Greeks are less capable of objectivity or seeing the virtues of an enemy. The double, often contradictory approach to sex, where promiscuity and modesty collide, are an eternal trait of the Greek people. While it might be on the lower end of the western world spectrum on the matter, it is needless to say the woman’s status in the society has improved hugely. However, there is this common pattern that historically Greek women were often able to be much more influential or assertive than the laws or the “norms” expected them to be. Greeks have always loved their families fiercely. The next might come as a surprise but I firmly believe modern Christian Greeks are much less GENUINELY religious than Homeric and Archaic pagan Greeks were. Later Greeks (probably starting since late classical period and ever since) do not attribute nowhere near as much of their achievements and failures to a deity. The Greek approach to Christianity however is similar in the sense that there is an expectation of an immediate godly payback involved just like ancient people expected the favour of the gods with their sacrifices or appropriate behaviour. As time passed, Greeks became distinctly less and less interested in war and fights, despite always remaining argumentative. Modern Greece is a genuinely peaceful society that avoids confrontation but has some basic standards of good defensive preparation in case of bad need, while the ancient society was violating its own boundaries of peace very often and much more readily.

#greece #Ancient Greece #Homeric epics #Iliad #odyssey #Odysseus #Homeric age #archaic Greece #Homer #Greek culture #opinion

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blorbo-adoption-poll · 7 months

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Penny Poll round 1 match 7

Pennywise (It) vs Penelope (The Odyssey)

Propaganda under the cut

Pennywise (IT)

• Scary, goofy outfit, gives out balloons

• he's a clown. he's a demon. he's an alien. he's a serial killer. a bunch of kids with a baseball bat are enough to take him down.

• funny murder clown, i wanna see him among all the other probably not clowny pennies.

• :)

Penelope (The Odyssey)

• She waited about 20 years for her husband to come home she used her huge brain to keep the suitors away for ages I just think she's neat

• She is LOYAL. She is SMART. She is HARDWORKING. She waited for TWENTY YEARS. Penelope is a QUEEN (literally). PENELOPE SWEEP

#penny poll #tournament poll #pennywise #it #steven king #Penelope #the odyssey #greek mythology

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girlfromenglishclass · 10 months

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The reunion of Penelope and Odysseus at the end of the Odyssey is the culmination of a romance that's kind of grand in scale, so it makes sense that it's been fixated on in artwork. But in the scene, there is the question of the whole slaughter that just happened. There are plenty of relatively moral justifications for it, but there remains the question of Penelope's reaction.

Penelope's reaction to the bloodshed changes the interpretation of the ending, and it's often skipped over in favor of the classic romantic fade-to-black ending. We have three options.

Option #1) Penelope has no reaction to the slaughter/doesn't care. This is the one favored in more cinematic/simpler looks at the story. It's also the closest to what you will find in-text, as they don't necessarily have a discussion about it. Admittedly, it does work best if you're focusing on Odysseus as a romantic hero, fighting to return to his wife. A ten year voyage to get back to her should end in their touching reunion, and a moral debate dampens the climactic end of the story. However, this ending removes Penelope's agency from the plot.

While Odysseus has been outwitting monsters and seducing a goddess, Penelope's role in the story is fixed in her home. (This is entirely fair given the original audience's perception of female virtue) So this means that the suitors and their occupation of the palace is basically her primary concern. We learn about her cleverness and cool head by her ability to outwit them, same as Odysseus with his trials. So for her not to react to the killing of the suitors takes her opinion out of her own subplot. So, verdict: good for a romantic climax, bad for Penelope's character.

Option #2) Penelope is angry about the slaughter. This option does cast a pall over the idea that Odysseus has been toiling away trying to return to his lady love. It says that he'd do unspeakable things for her, but she will cease to love him for it. However, this option definitely offers the most drama. Odysseus returns, but not the same husband she once knew. In fighting his way back to her, he has become a creature of violence. This also could add to the tragedy of the maids who were hanged simply for cooperating with the suitors. The downside is that it completely changes the tone of the ending. Odysseus is given a kind of pyrrhic victory. Also, this is the least in line with text, since Penelope is quite happy to have Odysseus back in canon (once she knows it's him). So, verdict: the most bittersweet ending, most drama, least in line with Homeric canon.

Option #3) Penelope is glad the suitors are dead, and that her husband killed them. Not to be biased, but this one is the most fun. It also is compliant to a canon interpretation, for the same reason listed above. This makes sense with Penelope's predicament. As a woman in Bronze Age Greece, her home is where she has the most influence and power. With her husband away, she has more authority over it than ever. (See Clytemnestra's control over court in Agamemnon's absence) However, the suitors exist as an occupying force. They have taken away her authority, plotted to kill her son, and made her life miserable. In her position, she cannot take revenge, but Odysseus can. In this interpretation, Odysseus frees Penelope and in taking his place as king, returns her dignity as queen. Many readers presume that the primary motivation for the slaughter was that the suitors were, well, suitors. They were here to marry his wife, which he's understandably displeased with, so off with their heads. But really, the suitors are closer to an invading army. One houseguest is annoying; one hundred and eight houseguests is an occupation. The downside? It solidifies Odysseus and Penelope as a murder couple, and depending on your opinion of the morality of it all, implicates her in the crime. So, verdict: the bloodiest, possibly most fun, keeps Odysseus the hero, but does give both characters a sense of brutality.

#the odyssey #odysseus #Penelope #tagamemnon #I'm on tumblr because I miss writing essays for college

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a-d-nox · 3 months

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laertes, king of ithaca and silent hero (asteroid 11252)

Son of Arcesius and Chalcomedusa, and father of Odysseus. Laertes was famously a hero in his own right as he was on the quest with Jason to recover the Golden Fleece. He also aided in the quest to hunt the Calydonian Boar. He became the king of Cephallenians then expanded his empire to Ithaca. In the Odyssey, Odysseus reunites with his father, Laertes, who is still alive but lives in poverty. Laertes stands by Odysseus's side when Odysseus murders the suitor of his abandoned wife. Laertes helps to kill the main suitor with the blessing of strength given to him by Athena. IN MY OPINION Laertes in a chart can represent a) where you have a slow decline, b) where you lose wealth and fame, c) how you will feel in old age, and/or d) what you are willing to do for your children.

i encourage you to look into the aspects of laertes along with the sign, degree, and house placement. for the more advanced astrologers, take a look at the persona chart of laertes AND/OR add the other characters involved to see how they support or impede laertes!

OTHER RELATED ASTEROIDS: athene (881), pallas (2), jason (6063), odysseus (1143), and ulysses (5254)!

like what you read? leave a tip and state what post it is for! please use my "suggest a post topic" button if you want to see a specific post or mythical asteroid next!

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katerinaaqu · 2 months

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Game of Thrones reader: Oh my gosh the red wedding was so violent and thrilling I have never read something like that before!

Me reading the Odyssey where Odysseus is already hiding every weapon and sword with Telemachus and their loyal people and barring all the doors to lock the suitors in before the mass shooting begins: Hm? Oh yeah...cool.

#greek mythology #odysseus #the odyssey #the odyssey 1997 #odyssey #odyssey suitors murder #telemachus #tagamemnon #classicism

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iolypse · 1 year

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books on the ship the brazilians came to the island on

Armies Of The Night — NORMON MAILER. chronicles the Oct 1967 march on the Pentagon in which the Vietnam War was protested.

Creators And Phantoms — not an actual piece of media as far as I can tell.

Screams In Dreams — not an actual piece of media as far as I can tell, however it may be hinting at the odd transmissions (bits of morse code, "are you there?", weird strings of numbers and letters, etc) within the census' messages.

Priests Of The Forest — not an actual piece of media as far as I can tell.

True Grit — CHARLES PORTIS. a coming-of-age novel set in the old west of 1870s Arkansas and Oklahoma. the protag wants vengeance on the man who murdered her father. she meets some lawmen who teach her what "true grit" is. also has a movie adaptation.

Guilty Damned — there's a book by the name The Guilty and The Damned by GENO OSBORNE, but it's so unknown that I highly doubt it has anything to do with this.

The Odyssey — HOMER. very well known, a greek story following Odysseus' ten year struggle to get home after the Trojan War. Odysseus blinds the cyclops Polyphemus, visits Teiresias in the underworld, gets past the sirens, scylla, and charybdis, get to calypso's island, kind of fights zeus and poseidon and shit, gets to ithaca, disguises as a beggar, kills the suitors and reunites with his wife. athena helps him pretty much the whole time.

A Better Tomorrow — a film in which a reforming ex-gangster tries to connect with his estranged cop brother. there's a lot of fighting between the beginning and the end, but in the end it seems like a bunch of their friends get shot, the brothers handcuff themselves together and go to the cops?

I've only ever read The Odyssey out of everything on this list, and that was for school and I did not pay attention whatsoever. but from what I can tell, every single one of these pieces of media that actually exist relate to either escaping something or getting to something.

definitely screaming at the island residents to get out, though. go home, go to their families, leave the island.

the books without actual existing things connected to them are Creators And Phantoms, Screams In Dreams, Priests Of The Forest, and Guilty Damned. might mean something, might not.

taking just the first letters of those specific titles, you get CAP SID POTF GD. putting all those together don't make anything as far as I can tell, caesar cypher gives no results either. taking out filler words, you get CP SD PF GD, though im not getting anything from that either. I don't think there's any codes in this, just warnings.

#qsmp #qsmp theory #qsmp thoughts

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chrometikaink · 5 months

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If you've followed me for any length of time you'll know I like to make weird Splatoon OCs !

This is Cupid, based off a (made-up) deep sea parasite who has taken on an octoling form as part of mass assimilation

But apart from that small detail, he's a sweet person who loves baking and the warm weather!

Full bio + more art under the cut

Cupid is a 6th generation parasite triplet with a rare case of albinism that makes him stand out from his brothers. He is a model by trade, often travelling around the world for photoshoots and modeling contracts which garners the attention of many aspiring suitors. Because of his natural beauty and related parasitic abilities, Cupid often has trouble with stalkers and obsessed suitors. Much to Cupid’s horror he is frequently attacked and usually must resort to murdering his assailants in acts of self-defense.

Cupid is passive and passionate in nature, enjoying the warm weather and the beach. His favourite place to travel is the tropics and he has a growing collection of animals he has ‘rescued’ from the clutches of death by turning them into parasites. Cupid also spends a lot of time in the Odyssey-X undersea lab with his friend (and later partner - pictured below) Caspian, playing Animal Crossing and allowing the scientist to conduct research on him.

#splatoon #splatoon oc #octoling #octoling oc #splatoon original character #oc #original character #splatoon 2 #splatoon 3 #chrometika_ocs

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gaslightgatekeepgirlbosscombat · 5 months

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Group H, Round 4, Poll 1:

Propaganda under the cut

Odysseus

literally the EPITOME of these. ive read the odyssey and i will tell u it is literally just him making up a new elaborate fake identity for like every single person he meets. even his own father and wife 😭😭 just for funsies or what idek. he literally does not tell anyone anything gatekeeping any and every gifts + knowledge the gods are given. im not joking his story is basically 90% this malewife just gaslighting people and gatekeeping stuff the gods tell him AND FINALLY FOR THE GIRLBOSS he sees the guys whove been essentially harassing his wife for like 10 years and just??? shoots all of them with arrows?? and he does it in STYLE too he comes as a beggar then the suitors r all trying to use odysseus's bow (they cant) and hes like oh i may just be a beggar but. let me try. and then uses it and instantly shoots someone in the head GIRLBOSS

Medea

Her husband divorced her so to get back at him she burned his new bride alive, murdered her own children and casually escaped justice in a chariot pulled by dragons and *made from the sun.* She is iconic and I love her.

propaganda from @apollosgiftofprophecy

Princess with Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, granddaughter of the Titan of the Sun, Helios, and Priestess of Hecate, the literal Goddess of MagicStarts out a classic fairy tale (with a few murders in the mix for flavor)Jason (the man/husband she sacrificed EVERYTHING for) thought it would be totally alright to cheat on his sorceress wife with some princess and - double whammy - he planned to keep Medea as his mistress after he married this random princess!When she confronts him, he shows his true colors as a world-class bastard and she reminds him that he's only still alive, and only completed his quest for the Golden Fleece, because of her. (WHICH IS TRUE)To get back at him, Medea orchestrates the death of said princess (and indirectly the king's too, whoopsies :) ) by sending a beautiful dress for her that was laced with poison that caused the princess to catch on fire, and also killed whoever touched her (the king)She then murders her and Jason's two kids (after some emotional dilemma because she actually cares about them while Jason Does Not) and exits the kingdom In Style - how? Like this:Rises into the air on a golden chariot pulled by dragons given to her by Helios When Jason says the gods with avenge him, she tells him "lol, good luck with that oathbreaker!" and flies off into the night Like A Bossa little more context here: Jason's godly patron was Hera, the literal goddess of family and marriage. And he was going to abandon his children and break his vows to Medea.Also, she never is punished for any of this stuff, meaning her actions have the (reluctant :) always good to be morally gray) approval of the gods. She's one of the only nuanced female characters in Greek Mythology, and by god is she interestingThis, my friends, is why Medea is the ultimate Gaslight, Gatekeep, Girlboss.

#round 4 #group h #the odyssey #Odysseus #Medea #Greek Mythology #Euripedes #yey! Greek showdown #I was thinking to put their fate counterparts as pictures for more then one second

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kattmeithmath · 1 year

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The last book of the Odyssey is so funny. Let’s check in on the ghosts of characters who died in the last epic, especially a detailed account of everyone’s favorite hero Achilles’ funeral! The suitors have literally just died and have to hear Agamemnon mention how his wife murdered him for the 86th time. Meanwhile Odysseus goes to visit his dad and is like “yeah I’ll tell you who I am, truthfully” (lying) but then realizes making your dad cry is actually kinda shitty and stops halfway through. Guys in town want revenge for thing they could have prevented and also knew was happening and are like “yeah no way this goes wrong.” They show up and Odysseus and Telemachus are having a pissing contest after not knowing each other for 20 years. Laertes is old old and kills a guy in one hit cause Athena thought it would be funny. She lets them fight for five minutes before making everyone go home. The End, 10/10 no notes

#besides any time they tell Penelope to shut up leave her in peace :(#the odyssey #homer #I mean that doesn’t happen in the last book but still #Odysseus #Laertes you old old man #greek mythology

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littlesparklight · 3 months

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Timeline of the Epic Cycle I

Chopping this up in two (and skipping the Iliad parts, I only made that writeup for myself so I could keep track of the number of days/which books they happened in anyway lol), for those of you who might be interested!

My own ordering of matters, of course; some notes at the bottom under a cut.

-5 The judgement in (very) early spring; Paris goes to Sparta early in the sailing season, spring Paris and Helen sail around the eastern Mediterranean for a bit, while Agamemnon and Menelaos starts gathering the suitors. -4 Late spring Achilles gets found out after having been put in hiding on Skyros for a year by his mother. They gather at Aulis mid-summer the year after for the ill-fated omen spelling out how long the war will last, they sail for Troy, but mistake Teuthrania in Mysia for Troy and attack it, Telephos defends it, is injured by Achilles but otherwise routes the Achaeans, who finally realize this isn't Troy. They leave, and fleet scattered by storm. Achilles takes his ships to Skyros after the storm since Peleus had asked them to suppress the rebellion there, the Skyrians are Dolopians and thus technically under Peleus/Phoenix's authority. After an initial battle, Lykomedes bends and gives his daughter Deidamia in marriage to Achilles as a symbol of his/his father's authority. Neoptolemos is born only shortly after the marriage. As the commanders limp their way home and regroup, it's decided to use this time to more properly prepare. [Odysseus decides he's very much NOT going a second time, probably insert the prophecy mentioned in the Odyssey here, but not earlier, as additional reason, and starts planning for how to make sure it doesn't happen.]

0 Rounding up the leaders again, early-mid spring; Odysseus' madness. [Telephos comes to Mycenae for his healing and promises to lead them to Troy], Agamemnon's insult to Artemis as they've gathered at Aulis, this lasts for ~three weeks before Iphigenia is sent for; sacrifice of Iphigenia (Artemis takes her to Tauris). Late spring, they sail for Troy. Reaching Tenedos, attacking it, Achilles kills Tennes. They have a sacrifice to Apollo at his main sanctuary on the island, with a feast, Achilles is invited/comes late, and they start without him. Philoctetes is bit by the snake during that sacrifice. Cycnus gathers a force and goes to Troy to warn the city when he sees Tenedos burning. The Achaeans leave for the Trojan shore, the landing is messy (Protesilaos on the Achaean side and Cycnus on the Trojan are killed); the Trojans retreat into the city and the Achaeans gather to send an envoy to Troy, which fails.

0-9 raids and attacks on the surrounding countryside and coast all up and down Asia Minor/Thrace, all the way down to Caria and the islands nearest to the coast. A couple attempts at storming Troy fail, while the Trojans mostly stay in the city without engaging, or only close to the walls. 1-2 Famine as the initial resources dry up and the Trojans are still doing fine. Odysseus, trying to gather grain from Thrace, fails [because most Thracians are at least passive allies of Troy], Palamedes suggests/brings up the daughters of Anius to Agamemnon, who agrees, so Palamedes, Menelaos and Odysseus goes to Delos. Perhaps Odysseus' persuasiveness fails, and it's Palamedes and Menelaos who manage to convince Anius, to add further "insult"? 2 Epipole found out by Palamedes, stoned to death by the Achaeans. 3 Palamedes' murder, the Oinotropoi taken charge of by Agamemnon. 4 Troilus is murdered by Achilles. 5 The Oinotropoi "escape" by being turned into birds. [This leads to more heavier and wide-ranging sacking as the Achaeans now have to rely on outside sources of foodstuff aside from meat, which, as long/soon as they have a breeding stock and feed/grazing for them, can be maintained in camp.] 5 As a result of the above, Achilles drives off the cattle of Aeneas by approaching Ida from the south coast. He kills Priam's son Mestor during this. Chases Aeneas to Lyrnessos; Lyrnessos and Pedasos are sacked, Briseis' family and husband killed, she's given to Achilles. Aeneas gets away, however. 6 (early) Achilles wishes to see Helen, as this thing is dragging (though he knows about the reading of the snake and sparrows omen, of course) and wishes to know if she's truly worth it. He then restrains the restless mass of the army into staying. [7 Dardanos is attacked and sacked, driving the survivors and the Dardanian branch of the royal family to Troy?] 7 Lykaon taken while he's out at night to get supplies for a new chariot and sold on Lemnos as a slave (he's given back to Priam years later, coming home only twelve days before his death (during the days the Achaeans/Achilles is waiting for the gods to return)). 8 (mid-early) Thebe Hypoplakia is sacked (completely unprepared, as Andromache's brothers are out tending their herds and a sacrifice to Artemis is being held, the one Chryseis is attending (suggested by Anderson in The Fall of Troy in Early Greek Poetry and Art), Chryseis is given to Agammemnon. Andromache's mother taken but ransomed to Troy and then sent onwards to her father, where she dies of sickness sometime before the main action in the Iliad. 8-9 (late eight, early ninth); the majority of Trojan allies arrive, most of those coming from outside the Troad.

Almost all the details for these nine years are just elaborated details from the fragments of the Cypria, or scholia attached to it.

-I've chosen to add five years; at the very least I think you need two (in that case probably making the first, mistaken attack an impulsive and quickly put-together affair very shortly after Paris and Helen have come to Troy), so there can be proper preparations. The Bibliotheke, undoubtedly following a general and earlier tradition, goes with Helen's "it's been twenty years" and inserts ten. It then puts the first muster and the attack on Teuthrania two years after Helen's abduction; the Achaeans do not gather again until eight years later after being scattered by the storm.

-to adjust for the extra years, Odysseus' feigned madness thus comes before second muster, instead of the first. Both because it makes better sense (knowledge of the ten-year duration of the war, that at least some gods are against them given that storm/hitting the wrong city, the prophecy he gets given in Ithaka), and because Telemachus must of course be born closer to the second muster than the first, given the years passed/his age at the end.

-The Achilles-Skyros episodes are based on the Iliad's mention of him sacking/attacking it, plus a tradition that gave a reason as to why this would've happened. The aborted attack by Lykomedes surrendering and officially marrying Deidamia to Achilles in the aftermath is my own arrangement. In the Bibliotheke, Achilles is 15 at the first muster.

-In the Kypria, the Achaeans sack Tenedos and land on Troy's shores before they send an embassy. The Bibliotheke, if the phrasing of the section preserves the meaning of the fuller account better, have the Achaeans send the embassy from Tenedos itself. Only very late versions have the embassy being sent before even the first muster.

-The famine subplot is as old as the lost epics, at least; one of the ways Palamedes is murdered is while he's out on a fishing expedition with Odysseus and Diomedes (fishing being something you "only" did in starvation conditions lol), for example. The daughters of Anius magically provide food for the army at least for part of the length of the ten years, and it's specifically not Odysseus who manages to get them to the Achaeans' camp at Troy. Usually Palamedes' murder is imagined relatively early, in some variants even earlier than this, but to work with the famine subplot and the girls, I've put it here.

-the way the war has been waged in the nine years up to the Iliad has mostly been taken from mentions in the Iliad (though there they seem to imagine the Trojans still fighting on the ground, just next to the walls), with some elaborations as seemed logical.

-I inserted an attack/sacking of the city of Dardanos, since it seemed logical to move Aeneas' family from there (as his great-grandfather was king of the place) to Troy at some point during the war. Dardanos has been imagined as both being on the coast (later versions, based on a real city of Dardanos) and in the foothills of Mount Ida (earlier versions).

-In the Bibliotheke, the allies turn up in the last year of the war. This seems to be ALL of them; I decided to cut it down to those who are coming from further away than the Troad itself. It seems logical to me that those in the actual country would gather around Troy throughout the nine years, if one does go with a late appearance of the other allies.

#trojan war #greek myth thoughts #the iliad

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