#oedipi

[basicallyanotherwitchesthing]

Israel Regardie, J.M. Spiegelman, Christopher S. Hyatt - Mysticism, Psychology and Oedipus - New Falcon - 1985

[shejustcalledmeafish]

I am doing a very serious critical analysis of Dracula, I say, haunted by the knowledge that one of the critical articles I’m citing calls Dracula “the Big Daddy”

[idontwanttospoiltheparty]

You know I was about to joke about John being like a Freudian strawman, but knowing what I know now I feel like... as evidenced by primal, John probably bought in to Freudian theories a lot, at least for a while, so I wonder if maybe he sort of over-focused on certain aspects of his life – like confusing experiences he'd had with Julia, his general neediness within relationships, his attraction to men – and (with the help of someone like Janov) connected them into a grand narrative for himself that he... felt compelled to follow through on.

My point is: we see him expressing something that sounds an awful lot like womb envy (which, while not coined by Freud directly, was a theory that existed at the time), and maybe he just happened to have that thought independently of pop psychology theories floating around at the time, but maybe he started reading stuff that sort of matched his experience and began imitating the key characteristics to fit the "diagnosis" better, possibly entirely subconsciously.

It's like, the closer you are to a "typical case", even of outlandish conditions like oedipial complexes, the closer you get to understanding your problem and thereby the closer you get to getting better.

[argyrocratie]

"Take his occasional citation of A. Mendel’s Michael Bakunin: Roots of Apocalypse. I don’t particularly believe that anyone with a brain can take this work seriously: it is genuinely one of the weirdest political biographies I’ve flicked through. It would be an otherwise fairly standard biography of the man, were it not interwoven with bizarre speculative attempts at psychoanalysis. One of Mendel’s theses is that Bakunin was, at root, feminine. Bakunin, woman that he was, sought sexual gratification not through “the pleasure of imagined aggression” like a man, but through “masochistic pleasure of passive suffering that Bakunin could experience, or imagine himself experiencing, by identifying himself with the people as victim, by making and being prepared to make enormous sacrifices on its/her behalf, and by imagining the vastly greater pains still to come in the anticipated apocalyptic catastrophe” (pg. 275-276).

Mendel believes that Bakunin’s lust for violence was essentially a way of sexually gratifying himself and covering up his womanly essence, which he essentially adopted to avoid “the oedipial crime”. Bakunin’s “persistent flight from roles identified at the time with male authority and responsibility”, childhood correspondence with his sisters, one-time reference to him weeping “like a woman” – all this and more, for Mendel, “are too glaringly present in Bakunin’s personality, ideas and actions to be ignored”. “He… was compelled to spend a lifetime trying to repress and disguise them under mountains of aggressively heroic declarations, programs, organisational plans, and absurdly quixotic forays”. Since, for Bakunin, all sexual experience was “incestual, evil, filthy, demonic”, Bakunin would punish himself with imagined violence – but since he found sexual gratification in masochism, this self-punishment just triggered a spiralling loop of masochism that drove his whole life (pg. 276).

A choice paragraph:

“Did the adoption of a feminine role extend beyond this sexual-revolutionary fantasy and into his relationships in real life? Was he homosexual? The helpmate role he played in relationships with strong men, his preference for being a dependant at home rather than a protective provider, his penchant for the innocent company of young ladies during his adolescence and the stimulating atmosphere of young male virile warriors in his later years, the strangely passive expressions he used in his sexual-revolutionary imagery – these and other similar hints we have seen along the way suggest, at least, the possibility. However, there is absolutely no concrete evidence whatsoever to indicate active homosexual involvements or events in his life.” (p. 483).

Amazing stuff!"

-Daniel Rashid, "The Poverty of Mick Armstrong’s Polemic" (2022)

trans-mysoginist tropping aside i think some of my readership might apreciate that speculative psychological portrait of bakunin

[countlessscreamingargonauts]

Norman is fat. Hes obsessed with his mother. A living, breathing, walking Oedipis Complex but he still has his eyes.

Robert Bloch had me audibly go "what the actual fuck" at the beginning of the book.

This is gonna be a roller-coaster.

[sourkitsch]

Oedipus Cursing His Son Polynices (1786) -- Henry Fuseli

[shellsnroses]

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“In Such Employ”

The first half of a collaboration with @ isaiahhaddon (On twitter and instagram) to make this piece inspired by Antigone.

[perpetuallyeepy]

Tag your grade (or the one you just finished) and what books they made you read in English.

[memecucker]

in a similar vein remember when Bancrofts stuff about Freud moving from the seduction theory to the oedipus complex went viral on here and people seriously believed that Freud came up with the Oedipis Complex to appease popular backlash because if you wanna come out with something that’ll get the middle class crowds on your side about your theories of sexuality it’s saying that they have secretly wanted to fuck their mothers? Yeah, that’s the standard for middle class respectability right there

like Freud was wrong about shit don’t get me.. wrong but also maybe some thought about the context of narratives saying a German Jewish academic living in the late 19th and early 20th century was apparently party to a conspiracy to cover up child abuse without any clear evidence of the actual conspiracy stuff that isn’t just speculation

[agentrouka-blog]

Do you think Jon had an oedipial complex wrt cat? Or Sansa had Elektra complex wrt to ned?

I had to consult Wikipedia.

In Neo-Freudian psychology, the Electra complex, as proposed by Carl Jung in his Theory of Psychoanalysis, is a girl's psychosexual competition with her mother for possession of her father. In the course of her psychosexual development, the complex is the girl's phallic stage; a boy's analogous experience is the Oedipus complex. The Electra complex occurs in the third—phallic stage (ages 3–6)—of five psychosexual development stages: (i) the Oral, (ii) the Anal, (iii) the Phallic, (iv) the Latent, and (v) the Genital—in which the source of libido pleasure is in a different erogenous zone of the infant's body. 

In classical psychoanalytic theory, the child's identification with the same-sex parent is the successful resolution of the Electra complex and of the Oedipus complex; his and her key psychological experience to developing a mature sexual role and identity. Sigmund Freud instead proposed that girls and boys resolved their complexes differently—she via penis envy, he via castration anxiety; and that unsuccessful resolutions might lead to neurosis. Hence, women and men who are fixated in the Electra and Oedipal stages of their psychosexual development might be considered "father-fixated" and "mother-fixated". 

Honestly, I suspect this is one of those widely misappropriated terms. I am no psychologist, nor in any way an expert on Freudian psychology. But much of what is summed up on the Wikipedia page sounds like hogwash to me, to be honest. 

If, as I imagine, you’re asking if Jon was subconsciously sexually attracted to Cat, and Sansa was subconsciously sexually attracted to Ned, specifically (That IS the pop psychology version, right?) then I would have to say: NO. I see Zero evidence of that in the text.

Do I think they will be attracted to each other because they remind each other of Ned and Cat? No. They specifically long for the things they were denied by Ned and Cat. Sansa longs for a knightly hero to protect her and spend time with her. Jon longs for a gentle lady to make a home with. 

Do I think working out their respective issues with Cat and Ned (and later Lyanna and Rhaegar) is going to inform an aspect of their relationship? Very probably. Because their issues inform their relations with men and women in general. They inform their relationship with themselves, with their sense of self-worth, with love. 

Do I think Jon will “replace” Ned for Sansa as an approving paternal figure, or that Sansa will “make up” for Cat’s rejection, specifically? NO. Yikes.

I think, (and this also goes for them as literary reconstructions of classic romance characters as well) we are going to witness them working out these issues in the text and subtext - with themselves, alongside one another.  We won’t witness them transfer an emotional fixation, but we will see them confront their individual emotional issues with one another, where they have mutual overlap. And they DO have mutual overlap.

Jon’s inclination is to protect women and value soft skills, but when he’s in a bad place, he can be dismissive and unilateral. Sansa’s inclination is to be warm and attentive, but when she is in a bad place, she can shift blame where it doesn’t belong, hide behind a wall of ice, or be downright purposefully hurtful. Basically, exactly the brand of negative things they were treated by Cat or Ned, respectively. 

The difference between them is that they will not be subordinate to each other, emotionally, but equal, which should hopefully enable them to openly confront each other in healthy ways instead of storing up sullen anger until it explodes or making secret plans. Eventually. After screwing up at first. 

But that is not the point of their relationship, only one aspect of it, which is mostly about their relationship with themselves. And let us not forget, they have an existing relationship with each other, as individuals. They do not meet as blank slates in order to project their parental issues. They have known each other all their lives. And they may look similar to Ned and Cat, but they are not personality clones. Their actual, mutual memories, their shared dreams and shared values, their active choices and individual personalities are going to have much more to do with how their relationship develops. 

[shittheatrekidssay]

S: Oedipis be like. The father and the mother and the son nvm just the son oh wait the father and the son NO only son WAIT mother and son and now mother and wife and son and father WAIT no one

K: damn owedipuus

E: Oedipis really said 👱🏻‍♀️+👨🏻‍🦰=👶🏼—-> 👩🏻+🧑🏽‍🦱= ø 🤲👶🏼——-> 👶🏼👦🏼🧑🏼👱🏻‍♂️——>👱🏻‍♂️🔪👨🏻‍🦰——> 👱🏻‍♂️❤️👱🏻‍♀️———> 👱🏻‍♂️🔪👁👁

[portalibis]

Oedipi et Sphingis dialogus (Dialogues between Oedipus and the Sphinx); Le Sphinx

by Free Library of Philadelphia

Publication date 1570

[note-a-bear]

Catching up on succession and I just got to Oedipis Roy

[hockeygossip101]

No, it’s not a narcissist thing. It’s an oedipis thing that apples to everyone even those who say it’s gross. — complex of emotions aroused in a young child, typically around the age of four, by an unconscious sexual desire for the parent of the opposite sex and wish to exclude the parent of the same sex.

Oedipus Rex give me bad flashbacks. My English teacher was a creep and he would make weird comments about things. He didn't think that Oedipus falling in love with his mom was weird and we read this poetry book that alluded to them having sex and he said "I don't know about you guys, but I'm liking this". He would drop his pen and ask us to pick it up for him. It was a bad era 🤢

If you're thinking like that at four then it's understandable because you're four, but if you're an adult thinking about a parent like that then it's simply just wrong.

[justmaybedont]

Oedipus: I'm so disgusted I fucked my mom I'm gonna gouge the eyes I used to look upon her

Advisor: ... but like with that logic shouldn't you cut off your dick?

Oedipis: what I can't see you

[holomoriarty]

This fucking episode, can you believe Frasier is actually relieved he has an Oedipial complex instead of finding another man attractive? christ