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#ok but ex husband/ex wife hits a little differently okay…
whalesforhands · 8 months
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Most favorite trope to read and write vs your least favorite to read and write?
most favourite: childhood friends to lovers, soulmates, amnesia, unrequited love, oblivious love
least favourite: enemies to lovers, academic rivals, fake relationship, second chances
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withpeopleinperson · 3 years
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Ok ok we know Addie and mer have a different deeper relationship than each of them have with the guys but please tell me your headcannon involves Derek and Mark secretly discovering they really like each other too.
I AM A SLUT FOR DEREK’S BI AWAKENING OMFG
- They’ve always been close friends, and the insinuation that Derek would crush on a man is quite honestly offensive to him at first. He accuses Meredith of having to make everything queer and she just laughs and tells him that he’s not exactly straight.
- He doesn’t realize that Mark is a lil ✨fruity✨ until they’re sitting around drinking and Addison brings up a threesome she and Mark had with another man. Derek asks Mark if it was awkward and he’s very nonchalant when he tells Derek that “guys can do things that women can’t, it’s good.” It breaks Derek’s brain for a good few hours, thinking about Mark and a man in various positions, and Meredith keeps teasing him about it.
- Mer and Addie are like the captains of SS Mark and Derek and they will do anything to get the two to admit their attraction. They orchestrate fishing trips and movie nights and them taking the kids to do stuff in hopes that it makes them realize what everyone else can so clearly see.
- The realization that they’re being set up finally clicks one day after Meredith and Addison rush out of the house in a fit of giggles, telling them to have fun and use protection. Mark rolls his eyes and says something about “she’s always trying to get me to go gay” and Derek is like shit, okay, he really does have an interest in men.
- But Derek is old fashioned and nothing but a gentleman and while he condones other people being a bit fruity, he has some mental block about how he just can’t be bisexual. Sure, sex with his wife, ex wife, and ex wife’s current husband is fun and he does enjoy the things Mark does to him, but the feelings? It’s almost too much for Derek to handle.
- Addison is a meddling sneaky little bitch and we all know it, and she decides to approach Derek about the Mark situation one afternoon. She was sitting atop the kitchen island messing with a snack board she had long since perfected and he knew she was waiting for him to ask her what was on her mind. When he finally does, she asks him if Mark makes him happy, if he enjoys being around him, if he gets that nervous flip in his stomach with anticipation when Mark is around. Derek is embarrassed and tries to deflect, but her eyes are so soft and loving that he eventually cracks. She tells him that he deserves to be happy and if happiness comes without labels, then so be it. He confesses that he thinks Mark isn’t into him, and Addison has the biggest shit eating grin. “Derek, you stupid, insufferable fool… don’t you see the way he looks at you? The way he lights up and laughs?”
- His talk with Addison awakens things inside of him — the subtle swell in his chest when Mark got off on a tangent about something he loved, the flipping anticipation when Mark whispered something dirty in his ear, and the smile that seemingly never left his face any time they were together — and Derek wonders when his life got so crazy. He went from married to Meredith to some crazy polyamorous happy blended family with kids and dogs and sharing each other’s homes, and the realization of just how lucky he is hits him like a ton of bricks.
- It’s the fact that he can’t imagine life without them — not just Meredith and Addison, but Mark too — and he begins to think that maybe Addison and Meredith are right, maybe he does love Mark in his own weird way. But bro still thinks he’s not bi
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There's a lot of things about Borderlands 3 that makes it kinda a garbage game. And all of those things are valid and true but a aspect of bl3 that deeply bothers me isn't something I've really seen people talk about?? Maybe they have but I missed it but I want to say my interpretation. (Also like, spoiler warning throughout all of this post)
To start off with: hi, I'm a autistic afab nonbinary person and this is relevant for this little rant I'm bout to go on.
I want to begin by stating why I love this franchise so much.
Borderlands, whether you like it or not, is INCREDIBLY queer. And not in a coded kind of way, it's just flat out gay as fuck. And that means so fucking much to me. Borderlands 2 was one of the first times I ever felt fully represented in a game. Zer0 being this dumbass making Yugioh references and generally being a fun garbage boy and also being nonbinary meant a lot to me and I adore him to this day (nonbinary people can use gendered pronouns fuc off). And getting more and more into this series and finding out that basically every character was on some level queer was really cool to me. Maya being asexual and most of the characters being attracted to multiple genders so honestly and off handily was so refreshing and amazing to get to play through. The casual mentions of a woman's wife or some man's husband in the echo's you find or Moxxi talking about her ex girlfriends was one of the reasons I loved this so much.
Another thing I loved particularly about Borderlands 2 was how feminist it was. I can not tell you how quickly I lost my shit at Mr. Torgue talking about the friend zone being misogynistic(it is btw). And the repeated jokes about fully murdering men for being rude to women was some of the highlights of my first playthrough. Punching a guy till he explodes because he disrespected a sex worker?? Fucking immaculate.
SPEAKING OF SEX WORK.
Mad Moxxi is a icon. She is a mother of MULTIPLE children, a survivor of rape and assault and a fucking bad bitch who runs a now intergalactic titty bar. Getting to have not only a sex worker be respected in a narrative, Moxxi is fun and a genuinely complex character who isn't defined by her job or her appearance. She is emotional and strong and funny and flawed but amazing person.
And then there's the way the male characters a represented and treated. I'll be honest here, I haven't really played Borderlands 1, mostly because have been spoiled by auto pick up and also I just didn't feel like it. So my idea of most of the men are based entirely off of Bl2, the pre-sequel and Tales. Anyway, Mordecai in particular is a character I really liked upfront. I love how a lot of his motivation and character is driven by his love of animals and Bloodwing. He's kind and though troubled knows when to get his shit together and be there when he needs to be. His casual "are you okay?" After the latter falls in the Arid Nexus was such a nice moment and the way he genuinely tries to be there emotionally for all of the people around him who he cares for is so fucking rare to see in a male character. And his arc of giving up alcohol to focus on being a better bird dad and you getting to help Brick make Mordecai a special gift to celebrate his sobriety is so amazing and I'm so proud of him.
Mr. Torgue is my dad and I love him. As mentioned, he is normal and believes that the friend zone is absolute garbage talk is ICONIC™ and the best scene in that game fight me. Torgue is a crybaby. He is an emotional person who is not afraid to express his pain and hurt when people are mean to him. He respects women and loves unicorns. The fact that is physical appearance is a big muscle guy who screams but is the literal opposite of toxic masculinity will forever make him the best male character of all time and I love him and he is my dad.
Roland was a character that I was never in particularly attached to but I still respect him and did enjoy his presence. I really appreciated his leadership style being primarily based on empathy and logic as opposed to him being a big meanie man with a HUGE dick who yells at people. I always really resonated with the echo from Tannis talking about how she came to Sanctuary. Roland going out of his way to bring Tannis to safety while completely respecting her autism and struggle with socializing really made his death hit harder when Tannis was very obviously distraught by losing him. It really seems that Roland was the only one who didn't treat her differently. And as someone who's autistic, finding people who legit 100% understand and respect you and just let you live the way you want/need to is kinda hard and those are the qualities I'd personally want in a leader.
Angel is also a big spot of affection for me. Handsome Jack being a irrefutably horrible person who Angel flat out says gaslights people and killed her means a lot to me considering 99% of Bad Parent stories end with "I forgive u" getting to see an abusive victim take that narrative and say fuck you was powerful and meant a lot to me coming from my own abusive home life.
There's a lot of other things I love about Borderlands but if I keep going I won't stop lol so let's get into why Borderlands 3 makes me so uncomfortable.
One of the main things that bothered me was the sexism. Its nothing too horrifying but given how feminist bl2 was it was really shocking and a bit hurtful the number of times women are called bitches or made to seem crazy. If you recall I brought up how you punch a man to death for calling a woman a bitch? Yea no, in this game we mock women for having boundaries and opinions because lol she's just a CRAZY BITCH who just needs to stop acting so hysterical am I right guys?
Yea the whole mission with that stupid bear thing and his ex robot girlfriend made me insanely uncomfortable and upset. I kept waiting for the gotcha moment where it says actually this bear guy is a dick and he shouldn't use language like that but no we just,,,,,, are supposed to laugh along. I hate it.
Even though Borderlands 3 is still very much queer, this game introducing 2 new trans characters as well as a whole DLC about a gay marriage and one of the playable characters being a lesbian there was this some shit that bothered me.
The mission where you crash and ruin a lesbian wedding.
That mission made so upset and uncomfortable. I hated how traumatized and hurt Tumorhead was as I murdered her family and wife. I hated how unfulfilling the mission was where PLOT TWIST the lady was actually a spy or whatever. I hate how there's a mission about ruining some poor psycho ladies wedding. I would've much more preferred a mission where Idk Bloodshine asks you to help her kill a spy who's causing problems and then fucking go around Promethea collecting wedding decorations or something. OR MAYBE JUST NOT A MISSION WHERE YOU KILL LESBIANS FOR NO FUCKING REASON.
I'm mad, anyway.
I also hated how Tannis was treated in this game. Under absolutely no circumstance would Doctor Patricia Tannis ever willingly take up a position of leadership. She is a severely autistic woman who gets nose bleeds from talking to people she wouldn't just be like "I'm in charge now pls talk to me!!!" Fuck off. And the joke about her dating a minecart isn't funny. The whole thing with the chairs, though funny in its absurdities was still a very important and powerful moment of character exploration. Tannis is insane. She is traumatized and hurt and in a moment of severe torture, she humanized some inanimate objects to cope. Tannis crying over the echo over Phillip is a heartbreaking moment of true vulnerability. It is also funny, because that's how good dark comedy works. It can be both hysterical and emotionally ruining at the same time. So what exactly does Tannis divorcing a minecart mean? What is this saying about her character? Why is it funny? Because lol lol reference??? Again, fuck off.
I hate how the Calypso twins childhood is handled. Troy implies it was horribly abusive and traumatic. But when we met Typhon whatever, he acts like it wasn't that bad??? He acts like he just didn't buy his kids the latest iPhone and oh no whoopsie now they're evil, my bad guys. It feels super weird and I don't like it.
Speaking of abusive parents. THEY DID MY GIRL ANGEL DIRTY SO BAD. This was literally when I decided I hated this game. Angel being the one who killed her mother and not Jack was fucking horrible. Especially after the literal foreshadowing in borderlands 2 implying he did. The fact that Jack is treated like a fearful man making what he thought was the right decision was insulting. I get that MattPat manipulated the fandom into thing Jack is a uwu bean but fuck you, you're the writers and you should fucking know better. Handsome Jack saw his daughter had power and turned her into a living battery for him to use as he saw fit. He was not scared and he was NOT right. Fuck you and fuck you for framing child abuse as chill and ok if your spooked enough like that. And the mission directly contradicts the echo's in Get To Know Jack. If Angel killed her mom why does she ask Jack where her mommy is when he's putting her in her chambers?? Why is it in the echo Jack is aggressive and forcibly and hurtfully makes her go into her chambers but in the memory, he's quiet and passive about it?? That's literally just flat out bad writing. Also fuck you.
Anyway,
I think that's really all I wanted to say about this topic. Obviously, there are also things that suck about bl3 but I'll try to chill and not make this too long.
I mostly wanted to make this to see if people cared/are bothered by the same things I am. I've seen how some of the fandom treats the more emotional and gay aspects of this franchise(the people throwing a fit over Amara, the friend zone line, not respecting trans peoples pronouns, sexualizing and being gross about Moxxi)
Anyway that's it byeeeeeeeeeeeee
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shirtlesssammy · 6 years
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4x14: Sex and Violence
Then:
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Sam’s being seduced by the dark side.
Now:
We open with a happy couple going through the joys of settled marital bliss. Or at least a couple where the husband comes home late from work, the wife makes plans without his input, and the husband becomes dangerously angry --and by dangerously angry, I mean he takes a meat tenderizer and smashes his wife’s brains with it. Joy.
Because I’m not passing this up without a screenshot, here’s a rare shot of Bby Dean all tucked in and sleeping in what appears to be sleepwear. A rare sight in the wild.
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He wakes to see Sam on the phone with someone, but quickly acts like he’s asleep when he realizes Sam’s not on the up and up. Sam “wakes” him with a case!
They head to interview the husband, who’s now in jail.
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The husband explains that he killed his wife because she made plans without telling him. He knew what he was doing, but he doesn’t know why he did it. He loved her. They were happy. The boys bring up some dodgy credit card charges. The man admits to going to a strip club and meeting Jasmine. She was everything. He killed his wife for Jasmine. He takes full blame for what he did to his wife. Sidenote: The camera work is really interesting...so many extreme close-ups and cuts.
At Dr. Cara Robert’s office, Agent Stiles (I’m assuming it’s not Harry…) shows up for some questions about the three men who killed their wives. She reveals that all three men had high levels of oxytocin --the love hormone. Sam’s hitting it off with Dr Cara when Interrupting Squirrel arrives. (Side-side-side-note: I just looked up who Stiles and Murdock were. They were the characters from Route 66. Murdock is portrayed by an actor named George Maharis. And here I always thought George Michael Bluth’s fake name was an original goofball name. Oof. Arrested Development is the show that just keeps giving.) Dean turns on his “charm” but she only has eyes for Sam.
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They boys head out, but not before Sam can get in one more bit of flirting. Dr Cara is smitten.
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(For a one-off liaison for Sam, I LOVE THEM.)
Dean’s research revealed that each man’s story played out the same way, but they all fell for a different woman from the strip club.
Sam and Dean head to the Honey Wagon strip club for research that night. Dean gets nowhere with the club’s owner. No paperwork, all independent workers. Sam talked with Bobby, who suggests they’re dealing with a Siren. They’re beautiful creatures that prey on men, and entice them with their siren song. Dean’s song: Welcome to the Jungle. “So they shake their thing, and the guys zombie out?” (Side-note: SPOILER...Dean’s siren IS A MAN. I don’t want to jump ahead but I CAN’T WRAP MY HEAD AROUND THIS WHOLE EXPLANATION, AND THEN CONTINUE ON WITH THE “DEAN’S TOTES STRAIGHT” BULLSHIT THIS SHOW IS FEEDING US.) “Whatever floats the guy’s boat?” “So it can be the same chic, morphing into different dream girls?” Just as the brothers are lamenting the fact that it’ll be nearly impossible to locate the siren, one worker takes a client outside.
He takes her home for sexy-time, but not before checking in on his infirm mother. Later, she passively aggressively asks him to kills his mom so he can be with her forever. Then she just aggressively suggests he bash her brains in so they can be together. (Side-note: If this example of the siren working its wiles on a dude and his mom is supposed to show the “familial” side of the situation to parallel Sam and Dean, uh, the SIREN IS STILL SEXY-TIME for the dude even if the person they’re making them kill isn’t a significant other.)
While at their motel, doing a little research, Dean has a chance to check out Sam’s phone. He calls the one unknown number, only to hear Ruby on the other end. He hangs up, pissed. Sam arrives and Bobby calls in information.
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Bobby mentions that the siren injects the men with some kind of toxin. But if the siren gets any of the toxin, they’ll die.
The boys head back to the hospital to meet with Dr. Roberts. Sam is hoping to get a sample of the Oxytocin. THE FLIRTING IS OUT OF CONTROL, FOLKS.
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They’re interrupted by another FBI agent, Nick Monroe. There’s some FBI badge measuring. Dean and Nick look each other up and down and introduce themselves. There’s some staring (LISTEN, I’m just going off what the camera work is telling me, ok?) And Interrupting Moose, off-screen, tries to get in on the intro-fest. There’s some more FBI measuring, and Nick stares at Dean the whole time while Sam answers the questions. I mean, this is a master scene in heteronormativity. Nick calls the brother’s boss to check their credentials. Bobby, busy frying up lunch, puts everything in order.
Nick lays a theory on them all: all the attackers were hooking up with strippers from the same club. Sam and Dean bask in feelings of superiority because...DUH. Dean’s ready to be a “lone wolf” but Sam tasks him with occupying Nick instead.
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It’s okay, though, because Nick is 100 billion percent into Dean(‘s car).
At the strip club, Dean’s not even watching the women (for pleasure OR for the case). He’s drinking and comparing music nerd levels with Nick.
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There are “not a lot of Feds as cool as us,” Dean says, totally suavely. Totally, Dean! Finally, they get around to talking about the case. Nick pulls out further evidence that he collected...it’s a baggie with flowers matching the ones in Dr. Cara’s office. According to Nick, similar flowers have been found at every crime scene. He suggests that it’s the signature move of a serial killer. (Sorry, Nick, but Sam’s the one heavily into serial killer talk.)
Back with Sam and Dr. Cara-of-the-insidious-flowers, they’re reviewing security footage to find out who stole the blood samples from the attackers. It’s a no-go, though. Someone has already doctored the tapes. Sam tells her that he suspects a cover-up of the killings and that the men were drugged. Otherwise, why would they kill their victims in the first place? “Haven’t you ever been in a relationship where you really love somebody and still kind wanted to bash their head in?” Dr. Cara...keepin’ it real.
She pulls out alcohol to share from a cabinet in her office. (She’s clearly working through some issues of her own, poor bean.) When Dean calls she encourages Sam to ignore his phone call. It’s adult time now, baby. She can’t stop thinking about Sam’s lips, for example.
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I’m sure I speak for Boris when I say:
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Later, Sam heads back to the hotel room, accompanied by foreboding music. Dean’s not there, though. He’s driving in the Impala, and feeling disappointed in Sam. When they talk on the phone, Dean drops all his latest facts:
Sam’s ignoring Dean’s phone calls
Dr. Cara has hyacinths on her desk - which ties into the Grecian island where the siren myth originated
Her ex-husband is an ex because he’s DEAD, JIM
Also, why is Sam a jerk
Dean thinks Cara is the siren and he angrily asks Sam why he keeps hooking up with monsters. You’ll learn the allure of the supernatural someday, Dean. Maybe in just a few minutes in fact.
Dean enlists Nick’s help in canvassing for Dr. Cara. Nick finds her at a bar (poor, grieving Dr. Cara) and he and Dean stake out the late night dive.
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In the car, they share swigs of a flask. Nick suggests that the poison might be entering the men through the saliva. Dean and Nick stare at the flask. “You really shoulda wiped the lid on that before you drank from it, Dean.”
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Nick, who is totally the siren, tells Dean that Sam’s just a barrier to their relationship who needs to be removed. Nick can be like the brother that Sam’s failing to be. (Stares into the distance and thinks about labels.)
At the hotel room, Sam walks into an ambush. Dean holds a knife to his throat, while Nick delivers his villain speech. Yes, it is HE who has been driving men to kill others. “Maybe I got exactly what I wanted. I got Dean.” The siren reveals that he loves the hunt. He loves falling in love over and over again.
Nick squirts poison into Sam’s mouth. “Whoever survives can be with me forever.”
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Sam and Dean, both under Nick’s control, turn to each other to...talk about their issues? The knife fighting comes later, clearly. Dean tells Sam that he’s changed, and lets him know that he knows about the calls to Ruby. Sam launches off of the Ruby subject and tells Dean that he’s too weak to fight Ruby. “You're too busy sitting around feeling sorry for yourself. Whining about all the souls you tortured in hell. Boo hoo.” DAMN, SAM. They fight - physically this time - and end up in the hallway.
As Dean is about to bring down an ax that he’s taken from the wall, Bobby appears! He jabs a bronze knife into Dean’s shoulder, throws the knife, and kills the siren. Damn, Bobby <3
Bobby lovingly chastises them later as they drink around their cars. According to Bobby, “Agent” Nick was clearly a big faking fake who fakes.
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Dean asks if Sam will say goodbye to Cara but...nope. Sam’s just gonna blow outta town. (I think Dr. Cara mostly just wanted an uncomplicated hookup anyway, so likely for the best.) We leave the episode with awkward feelings all around. They’re “good” with each other but there’s a narrator voice intoning, “They were not, in fact, good.”
Whisper Quotes about Love:
Dude, you totally c-blocked me.
Strippers, Sammy, Strippers. We are on an actual case involving strippers.
Hey, I read.
For a fed, you’re not a total dick.
Want to read more? Check out our Recap Archive! 
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The Forgotten Wife (Negan X Reader)
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Prompt fill request from an Anon:
I have a small idea about Negan’s less than favorite wife finds out she’s expecting and she think Negan will hurt her if found out so she opts out of being a wife and Negan is fine with it and doesn’t give it a second thought and let’s her work for points again and she seems to disappear-but he finds out the truth when Simon makes a comment about how much the former wife’s kid looks like him maybe when theyre eating in the cafeteria?
Note: This is another one of those pairings I may write more for if you guys want and left it open ended to do so. So please if you want more hit up my ask box and let me know or comment on it and I will totally consider adding this to my regularly updated fics because this story may just have some legs yet. I really enjoyed filling this prompt. Though the title is similar this does not take place in the same AU as my ongoing story “The Chosen Wife” you can just say I am shit at coming up with titles. This relationship could develop into one hell of a slow burn, which I have never written before… It is so far from the usual Negan relationship dynamic I write and is fun to write as well. Hope you enjoy!
also if you get where the little boy’s name comes from drop me a comment!
It was funny how quickly everyone seemed to forget your name and who you once were when you just became another worker. It was a blissful ambiguity that you had come to enjoy in the last two and half years since you stopped being Negan’s wife. You were no Amber or Frankie, you were just one of the rare women who actually thought you could get Negan to love you by marrying him. In the life before you had a type, the rough around the edges type of guy. The ones with bad tempers and foul moods. In your mind you thought you could fix them, that your love would save them from themselves. Negan was no different in your mind but he was. Your exs didn’t have a half dozen other wives to chose from and he barely seemed to remember your name back then.
He would come into your room, have his way with you however he so wished and then just leave. He never had a kind word, glance or touch for you. He did his “duty” and that was all. When you discovered about six months into your “marriage” with Negan that you were pregnant nothing but sheer panic filled your body. There were a thousand worse case scenarios running through your head in the days after you had your first suspicions. It was not long before you came to the only safe option, you would ask Negan to work for points again and hide in plain sight.
Negan didn’t care in the slightest when you left. Or the dozens of times he walked past you in the gardens while you were working while pregnant. Or even when he walked past you and his son in your arms in the hall every day. He had forgotten about you and that was the best thing you thought that could have ever happened.
It was almost two full years after the birth of your son before there was even the slightest sign that anyone suspected anything, and it wasn’t even Negan. Everyday while you ate your dinner with your son, Deacon, in your lap Simon watched your little boy intently. Simon was nice enough to you over the years, one of the few who remembered that you were once the less than cherished bride of their fearless leader.
Your attention was peaked particularly on this day as you noticed Negan perched over Simon’s shoulder. Your gaze was fixed on Simon’s lips as you tried desperately to make out what he was uttering to your former husband but he had tilted his head just enough so you couldn’t make out what he was saying. That same sense of panic that you experienced during the early days of your pregnancy came back in a tidal wave of fear and panic. “Come on bubs..” You mutter to your son as you take a napkin and wipe the food from his face and set him down on the bench before standing up.
As you leaned down to pick Deacon up, his small arms draping over your neck, you noticed Negan’s gaze lock on you as he leaned in whispered something to Simon before turning away and disappearing down the hall. Your pulse raced as you lifted your son up and tried to hurry away. Simon quickly moved to block your path as you went to exit the dinning hall. “Well (y/n), how are things going for you sweetheart?” Simon asked with a coy smile as he blocked the doorway with his arm.
You shrugged nervously sifting Deacon’s weight on your hip. “Fine, thank you Simon for asking…” You say quickly trying to muster all the energy you had within you to mask the feeling of panic growing in the pit of your stomach.
Simon gave a little nod and leaned into to look at Deacon who was gazing wide eyed at the strange man with his large hazel eyes, Negan’s eyes, you mind screamed in panic. As Simon leaned back he smirked. “That’s a very handsome little man you have there…”
“That’s very kind of you to say, thank  you…” Your voice was hiding less and less of your real emotions with each passing moment and Simon could see it, everyone could. He moved his arm from it’s position blocking the door to around your shoulder. You knew in your soul that this meant nothing good for you or Deacon.
Simon loomed over your shoulder as he leaned in and whispered, “I’m not the only who noticed your boy…” Simon’s voice was low, dark and sent a shiver down your spine. “Negan wants to see you… and the boy… in his private rooms.” Your heart felt like it was going to burst forth from your chest it was pounding so hard. Your grip on your son’s small frame tightened.
“Okay..” You choke out and Simon gives a dark chuckle as he ushers you and Deacon down a path that you hadn’t walked in years. Though it had been years since you were summoned to Negan’s private rooms, you still had the route etched forever in your mind.
With each silent step you thought of a new horror that Negan was going to subject you too upon realizing that you had hidden his only child, his first born son, under his nose for two full years. Deacon did look remarkably like his father, it was still a shock to you that no one had noticed it before. As you stood outside the large doors you leaned in and kissed your son on his cheek. “Just stay with mama, don’t let go of my hand…” You say calmly as you set Deacon down on the grey cement floor on his uneasy feet. His small hand clutching yours tightly and Simon pushed the door open.
Negan sat on the large black couch, Lucille leaning up against the arm of the sofa, his arm draped along the back. He wasn’t looking at your face as your walked in. His eyes were locked on the face of his son. “Thank you Simon… you may go…” Negan’s voice was calm, eerily calm, as he gave his orders. Once the doors closed Negan stood up and took a few steps forward.
Deacon looked up at Negan, his grip on your hand tightens as he tries to hide behind you as Negan finally stands just little more than a foot or two from where you stood. He leans forward and almost instantly you feel the way you felt back when you wore that black dress. “(y/n)… it’s been what… a little over two years since you made the choice to work like a fucking peasant…” Your eyes instantly focus on Deacon’s hand in yours as Negan continues, not waiting for you to answer. “Your boy… he is what… two…just about.” You nod nervously as Negan leans in, his hand grips your face forcing you to meet his gaze. “Now fucking tell me this…” He said in a very dark tone. “Is he mine… or where you a cheating whore…” His grip on your face tightened as he waited for your answer.
Deacon let go of your hand and went over to Negan, balling his tiny hands into fists and started pounding them on Negan’s leg. “NO!” the little boy yelled with all his might obviously upset at your treatment, before you even had a chance to answer. Negan’s hand slipped away from your face as you lunged down and scooped your son into your arms before stumbling back. Falling to the floor with a loud thud.
“Don’t hurt him… he didn’t ask to be born…” You say as you wrap your body around your son instinctively to protect your child. “He is yours… okay. Just don’t hurt him…” You sob, gazing up at Negan who had his hands balled into fists at his side. His face twisted into a snarl as he processed the information that you had just confirmed for him. He took a step forward in anger but stopped when Deacon let out small yelp of fear as the little boy hid in your arms.
Negan looked down at you for a moment still visibly upset and for the first time you noticed a few tears welling up in the corner of his eyes as he contemplated his next move. He kept looking down at Deacon, who was now clutching your arm and peering up at Negan with so much fear in his eyes it broke your heart. “I’m not gonna fucking hurt my boy…” Negan said softly, his voice shaking a little as he leaned down and offered you his hand to help you up. “I promise…” You take his hand nervously, Deacon scooted off and pushed himself as Negan helped you back to your feet. It was the first real kindness he had shown you.
Negan stared at you, his dark eyes ripping a path straight to your soul as he quietly said, “He is my son… you hid him from me…” His voice shook with some level of pain as he glanced down at Deacon who was clutching hand. “I don’t even know his name…” He seemed genuinely pained by this.
“Deacon..” You mumbled softly before leaning down and kissing your son’s mess of shaggy dark hair. “Bubba…” You said softly cupping his cheek. “This is your Daddy...” Deacon glanced up at Negan wide eyed and slightly confused.
Negan leaned down to look his son in the eye. He reached out to take his hand but Deacon pulled away. “Hey now little man…” Negan started. “I know I was mean to Mama…” Glancing up at your for a moment before turning back to your son. “I’m sorry that I scared you… but I won’t ever do that again…” Deacon looked up at you, unsure of what to do. You gave him a little nod reassuring him that it was ok.
Slowly Deacon’s hand slipped away from yours as he took an uneasy step forward towards his father. Negan stretched out his arms and picked the toddler up. He beamed at Deacon as he held his son in his arms for the first time. “You are a handsome little devil…” Negan playfully tickled Deacon’s belly which caused the little boy to let out a sweet chorus of laughter that calmed your nerves for the moment. Negan gazed at his son before looking over in your direction.
He let out a small chuckle, “We tried for years to have kids…” He confided to you in a moment of honesty. “The doctors told my wife it just wasn’t gonna be in the cards for us.” He leaned in and kissed the side of Deacon’s head as Deacon wrapped his arm around Negan’s neck. A tender smile crossed his lips as he continued. “I always wanted this…”
You were genuinely taken aback by his candor and tone as he held your son in his arms relishing in the moment and the little boys surprising show of affection. “I’m sorry Negan… You seemed like you hated me.” You confess softly returning his honesty with some of your own. “I was scared you wouldn’t want my child…” Your voice shakes as your confess your fears and watched as Negan’s face grew solemn with guilt.
He opened his mouth to speak but stopped, reaching out he placed his hand on your shoulder and pulled you into hug. You hand slipped around Deacon’s back as you rested your head against Negan’s chest. “I’m fucking sorry… I had no clue you felt like that. I never hated you. I barely fucking knew you (y/n).” He gave a small shrug as you pulled back still fairly uncomfortable with his touch.
“You didn’t try to know me either…” You muttered softly take as step back, you hand lingering for a moment on Deacon’s back. Biting your bottom lip as you felt a sense of guilt for your part in this sorted tale. “Never the less..” You start taking a long deep breath. “I shouldn’t have kept the baby from you.”
Negan gave you a quite nod before turning his attention back to the child you shared. “Well, I guess I have some time to make up for don’t I?” He asked Deacon with a little smirk.
The toddler shrugged as Negan bounced him in his arms. Deacon looked fairly confused by the whole situation as you would expect given the events that transpired but there was part of you, finally seeing Negan holding your son. That joyful look in his eyes as he spoke to your little boy in the most tender and caring tone. He was like this different man with Deacon as they sat down together on the couch. Negan motioned for you to join them but you shook your head, crossing your arms in front of your chest. “Spend some time with him…” You say with kind smile as you turn towards the door. “I have to get back to work any how,”
Negan stood up from the couch, “(y/n), no you fucking do not…” He said emphatically causing you to turn around and just laugh at him.
“I am not going to marry you again Negan… once in that stable is more than enough for me.” You snap back quickly forgetting that Deacon was in ear shot. Negan took a few more steps closer to you, nearly closing the gap between your bodies.
“I never asked you to…” He placed a hand on your shoulder and you glanced down at it, unsure still of his intentions. “Let me take care of you and Deacon… I don’t want the mother of my child slaving away for points, my son dressed in fucking rags… I know it’s not your fault… let me fucking make things better for him, for you.” As he finished her squeezed your shoulder and you gazed up at him. Why couldn’t you have been like this back then? Why couldn’t you have showed me just a tiny sign that you would have been happy? You ask yourself as you slowly nod your head. Negan smiles softly and gestures back towards the couch and you reluctantly agree to join him.
As you settled down on the other side of Deacon you tried not to smile as Negan started to talk to the little boy about baseball, explaining the game to your eager son who sat perched up n her knees at his father’s side nodding his head as Negan spoke. It warmed your heart to see them sharing such a quite, normal moment. It was cut short by a loud knock on the door. “Fuck..” Negan cursed. “I told them to leave me alone...” He patted Deacon on the cheek as he stood up. “Come on, son…” He said with a little smirk as Deacon hopped down and toddled after his father who picked up Lucille as he stood before the door.
“Come on, this shit better be important…” Negan groaned before glancing down at Deacon who was gazing, wide eyed up at his father. As the doors slowly swung open you stood up and watched as a frantic Gavin and a very angry looking Simon walked through the door.  Negan reached down with his free hand held Deacon’s hand as the two men tried to calm themselves.
“We haven’t heard from the Satellite station all morning, not since lights out last night in fact…” Gavin started. Negan glanced down at Deacon who was starting to look frightens as Gavin started to go into more detail about some recent events.
“Do you not see my fucking kid standing right here you dumb shit…” Negan chided Gavin before glancing over at you. “Mama…” He said beckoning you over to him. Leaning down you scooped up Deacon before Negan leaned in. “Go down and get him some better clothes… get yourself some too…” You looked puzzled up at him not quite knowing where he was going. Before you had a chance to speak, Negan just put his hand up and continued, “(y/n) just do it… I have to deal with this now but I will get Simon to come get you once we get this shit sorted.”
“Alright Negan…” You say softly and he gives you a little smile and nod of thanks. “What if they give me shit about points?” You asked softly.
“Tell them take that up with me and give you what you want…” Negan said firmly and you gave a quick nod before walking towards the door.
As you walked past Simon with Deacon in your arms he leaned in and softly said. “Your welcome…” with a small, dark chuckle as you walked past.
Things were about to change, for the better perhaps but something deep within your soul screamed a lot of things for you and your son were about to get a lot worse.
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crushzone · 4 years
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Hi Nin, so sorry to bother you, I just read your Daichi fic, The Warmth of Your Familiarity, and I LOVEEE how authentic the smut seems. I haven't come across a first sex author write about parts like where Daichi went soft so he had to try again before, it's just so detailed. Please ignore this if I am being too intrusive, but I was wondering how much of that was from personal experience? I want to have my first sex, but is so scared. My fam and school r v religious, so sex ed was not a thing.
Warning: Candid discussion of first sex/experience
———-
Hi anon, omg pleaseee, you are not bothering me at all, I LOVE interacting with you guys.
Firstly, I am SO glad you enjoyed my Daichi fic, and thank you so much for taking the time to shoot me this message, it makes me so happy whenever I get feedback from my readers.
If anybody would like to give The Warmth of Your Familiarity a read, I’ve hyperlinked the title.
Anon, you caught me, this fic holds a very special place in my heart because I’m essentially re-telling my first penetrative sex experience (sex can mean different things to people, just because it is not penetrative, does not mean that it was not sex.) Truthfully, aside from some minor pacing tweaks, the the smut portion was extremely authentic to my experience.
I grew up in a very culturally conservative family and country, where sex is taboo, and there is this strange unspoken stigma against women who has had sex before marriage - something to do with how it makes us lose our value as a wife. So, as someone who was born and raised there, I bought into it, because it was the norm; just something that I was used to, and therefore it had to be right.
However, my sexual exploration started when I dated my first boyfriend in high school, he was a senior and I was a junior at the time.
He was my first for a lot of things - first kiss, hand job, blow job, oral (receiving and giving), fingering, public sex, and bondage. 
I was extremely comfortable sharing my kinks with him, as he was to me, and though it felt wrong, I can’t help but look forward to the next time I see him.
However, the whole stigma against sex still lingers because we’re still in Thailand, so I politely told him I’m not ready for sex, and he respected my decision. Little did I know that all our fore playing, could be considered sex too, it’s just a matter of perspective.
Penetrative sex aside with this relationship, he had truly opened my eyes; teaching me that it’s okay to discuss what I like and don’t like, and that sex and kinks are just as much a part of me as every other aspects of my personality.
He made me question what else I can learn about myself.
Fast forward to my other relationship, this time, he was a college senior I was a junior.
THIS is the relationship my fic was heavily based on.
Similar to my high school ex,
he was also my first for a lot of things - first penetrative sex, sex toys, impact play, long term relationship, and shibari.
We didn’t have our first penetrative sex until 5 months into the relationship, and he had been very respectful of my decision.
At this point, I’ve spent a good 3 years of my time in the United States, exploring myself, so I’m at a much better place with my sense of identity than I was when I was in Thailand.
Here are some factors, off the top of my head, that helped me figure out when I was ready for my first sex:
1. Am I having sex under the pressure of time? Or is this genuinely me feeling content and ready? 
2. Does my partner genuinely care for me? Do they love me? Whether that is platonically or romantically, it doesn’t matter, as long as it is with someone who means a lot to me, then I trust them.
3. Have they been tested for STI/STD + is there protection (condoms). This is IMPORTANT, it may be awkward to ask, but it is extremely vital.
With all those requirements met, I was able to finally have penetrative sex with absolutely no regret.
I’m not going to repeat what was said in the fic, but yea, it was pretty much how it went down.
After this relationship, I didn’t date anyone for a while because I was heartbroken, not until at least a year and a half.
At this point, though I’d have sex with my long term ex frequently, penetrative sex still hurts and I do not find pleasure in it, so I didn’t really have any interest in trying hookups either.
The only hookup I’ve had was when I had my first threesome with two women for the first time, and I enjoyed it. That experience taught me that my gender was, in fact, fluid, and being able to pleasure another woman helped me understand my anatomy better.
Truthfully, I didn’t start feeling pleasure from penetrative sex until at least 2 something years after I’ve started. I’ve only recently experienced pleasure from it with my current husband, so:
Do not freak out if it takes you a while to enjoy sex. Do not expect it to be something that would be perfect and pleasurable from the get go.
Only 25 percent of women are consistently orgasmic during vaginal intercourse, so that might just not be the thing for you, and that is absolutely okay.
Your first time could be very different from mine, or it could be identical.
Some of my friends found no discomfort, even experiencing pleasure on their first, while mine was SO painful, I nearly gave up that night.
Here are some advice to make your experience a little less painful:
1. Use plenty of lube, and please make sure that it will not deteriorate the quality of your condom.
2. Make sure that you are very well prepped. And by well-prepped, I mean, GOOD foreplay, spend a lot of time on foreplay, and do not have sex until you really, truly feel SO SO turned on that your sex twitches at the thought of penetration, and that you’re so wet, you’re almost dripping.
3. Experiment with different positions. 
Missionary with your legs wrapped around your partner’s waist is not a bad start, since the angle doesn’t penetrate as deeply and you can guide them in at your own pace with your legs. Putting a pillow at the small of your back might help, though it didn’t personally help me. 
The Spooning position also makes it easier to take in partners with girthier and longer lengths.
Lastly, some people prefer the Cowgirl position, because then the other partner does not have to fear hurting the other’s first time, because they’re the one riding them. I don’t personally enjoy this position for my first, because I found it more difficult to remain lubricated, and there’s just too many things to focus on for me.
4. Have protective sex, this is SO important. Don’t even mess with the pull out tactics or whatever, mistakes happen. Play it safe, and always practice safe sex. (This and mutual consent is something my fics will never skim on.)
5. Communicate. If you’ve masturbated before and I know that you enjoy to be touch a certain way, please let your partner know. And if they are a good partner, then they should try to accommodate.
6. Be with a good partner. Doesn’t matter if this is a hookup with friends or with your long term lover. Please make sure they are respectful, patient, and will stop when you tell them to. It also helps if you guys are close and are able to laugh at mistakes or some awkward things that may happen.
IF they do not stop when you tell them to, THIS IS NON-CONSENSUAL.
Consent for sex given under the influence is NOT considered one.
That is because your mind are clouded and judgement may be altered, please wait until you are sober to do so.
7. Pee immediately after sex, I’ve read that bacteria enters a woman’s internal organs much faster than men’s because the tunnel is shorter. I’ve had UTI, almost every time I’ve had sex, and it was hell. But that stopped for some reason after a while, it may have been my body freaking out from the sudden change.
————
There is so much more I could go on about, but the take away here is that:
yes, first penetrative sex can be very scary and awkward; after all, you are going to be incredibly vulnerable around another person, you might not do things right and neither will your partner.
But it is ok.
Over the years, I’ve come to learn what sex is to me —
a shared intimate moment with someone you love.
That’s it, that is what sex is, and it is what it should be. It is not about how well you can finger someone or dirty talk, everyone has different preferences,
as long as you communicate, adapt, and laugh, everything should be just fine.
If you or anybody else have more specific questions, or would like someone to talk to, please PLEASE never hesitate to hit me up.
I really wish I had someone I could talk to about this in the past, so hopefully, some of you will find this helpful.
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shefa · 7 years
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When Will We Make the Time?
WHEN WILL WE MAKE THE TIME? SERMON YOM KIPPPUR YIZKOR 5778 – 2017 Rabbi Stephen Weiss, B’nai Jeshurun Congregation
One of my all-time favorite singers is Harry Chapin. It’s not that he had such a magnificent voice, or that his melodies were so rich, though they certainly are catchy and get stuck in my head. What makes Harry Chapin stand out above all the rest for me are his lyrics. Chapin had a magical way of using his songs to teach valuable life lessons. Okay, maybe not so much in his song “30,000 Pounds of Bananas,” though I love that song. But songs like “Flowers are Red,” which speaks to the importance of encouraging creativity and independent thought, manage to touch us deeply by uncovering every day truths that we too often overlook. Perhaps Chapin’s most famous song is “Cat’s Cradle.” It was in the top ten for 15 weeks back in 1974 and it was Chapin’s only number one hit, but 40 years later it remains a song almost everyone knows.
The song is about a father that is too busy to spend time with his son. As the son grows he asks his father to spend time with him, but the father always postpones the son’s request to the future. The son idolizes his father and wants to become like his father. At the end of the song, the father realizes his son has become like him. It is the son, now who has no time for his father. Throughout, the song is peppered with phrases of nursery rhymes to remind us how quickly this time is going by. Here are a few verses:
My child arrived just the other day. He came to the world in the usual way. But there were planes to catch and bills to pay. He learned to walk while I was away. He was talking before I knew it, and as he grew He said, “I’m going to be like you, Dad. You know I’m going to be like you.”
My son turned ten just the other day. He said, “Thanks for the ball, now come on let’s play. Can you teach me to throw?” I said, “Not today, I’ve got a lot to do.” He said, “That’s OK.” And he walked away and he smiled and he said “You know I’m going to be like you, Dad, You know I’m going to be like you.”
The final verse says:
I’ve long since retired and my son’s moved away. I called him up just the other day. I said, “I’d like to see you, if you don’t mind.” He said, “I’d love to, Dad, if I could find the time. You see, my new job’s a hassle and the kids have the flu, But it’s sure nice talking to you, Dad. It’s been real nice talking to you.”
And as I hung up the phone it occurred to me, He’d grown up just like me. My boy was just like me.
That’s the song. But there is more to the story. Harry Chapin’s wife, Sandy, was the one who actually wrote the words to that song. Her poem was inspired by watching her ex-husband try to reconnect with his absent father. Harry wasn’t really interested in the poem until after their son Josh was born. It was then that he put the words top music. But sadly, Harry Chapin himself became the father in the song.
When their son was seven, Harry was performing 200 concerts a year. Sandy asked him “When are you going to spend some time with our son?” Harry promised he would make some time at the end of that summer. But he never made it. That summer, on his way to a business meeting, his car was rear-ended by a truck. The car burst into flames. Harry died in that accident before he could fulfill his promise to Sandy to make time with their son.
Just as in the song, I’m sure if Harry Chapin had it to do all over again, he would have used his time differently. The question we should be asking ourselves today is “How well do we use our time?”
We tend to live as if we had all the time in the world. But the Psalmist reminds us that is not so. In Psalm 90, we our lives are compared to the fragile grass: “In the morning it sprouts afresh, by nightfall it fades and withers.” Our time on earth is limited, and what we do with that time matters. We only have a finite amount of time to do the things that really count.
And yet we squander that time and let it slip away from us. We don’t mean to. It’s just that our lives are so busy. We rush after so many things: trying to get that job or promotion, launching a new business or project. There is shopping to do, and laundry. The house doesn’t just take care of itself. So many demands press in on us every day and it seems like there just aren’t enough hours to get it all done. At the end of the day we are so exhausted that it is hard to find the energy to do much else. As a result, we put off the very things that most deserve our time. But postponing life’s true priorities comes at a cost.
Too often we are like the farm boy, Joe, who accidentally overturned his wagonload of corn in the road. The farmer who lived nearby came to investigate. He offered to help the boy but he said to him, "Hey, Joe, forget your troubles for a spell and come on in and have dinner with us. Then I'll help you get the wagon up."
"That's mighty nice of you," Joe answered, "But I don't think Pa would like me to."
"Aw, come on, son!" the farmer insisted.
"Well, okay," the boy finally agreed. "But Pa won't like it."
After a hearty dinner, Joe thanked his host. "I feel a lot better now, but I just know Pa is going to be real upset."
"Don't be foolish!" exclaimed the neighbor.
"By the way, where is he?"
"Under the wagon."
How many times have we left a family member or friend “under the wagon,” knowing they need us but not making the time to be present for them?
According to a 2013 Pew Study, parents – no surprise – say they feel increasingly stressed about juggling work and family life. 56% of working moms and 50% of working dads say they find it very or somewhat difficult to balance these responsibilities. Though time with our children is thankfully on the rise, half of all fathers and one out of every four mothers say they spend too little time with their children.
A 2010 study in the Great Britain revealed that one in ten of us spends more time talking to our other half on the phone or by email than in we do in person. Couples now spend on average less than an hour a day talking while together, with one in five of us spending just fifteen minutes a day chatting in person. Fifteen minutes. More than a quarter of couples said they did not get the chance to have a proper chat until the weekend. That’s six days without spending meaningful time together.
We all know in our hearts that there is no replacement for spending time being fully present with others. Just ask the ingenious teenager who, tired of reading bedtime stories to his little sister, decided to record several of her favorite stories on tape. He told her, "Now you can hear your stories anytime you want. Isn't that great?" The little sister looked at the machine for a moment and then replied, "No, not really. It hasn't got a lap."
What those we care about need most from us is not things. What they need most is us. They need us to be fully present in their lives. If we are absent from our relationships how can we expect those relationships to flourish? If we fail to be present in the lives of those we love, how can we expect to them to feel our love and be transformed by it?
The same can be said for our relationship with God. A 2007 study found that the average American spends a total of three minutes on religious or spiritual activities on a normal weekday. Three minutes. No wonder then that we struggle to feel a relationship with God in our lives, or even to feel God’s presence at all. The Kotzker Rebbe taught “Where is God? Wherever we let him in.” The problem is that we don’t let him in very often.
It is not that we do not know what is important. We do know. If I asked you to list your priorities in life, most of you would not list shopping, or commuting, your job or your home. The proof that we know what is truly important is that toward the end of our lives we suddenly start scrambling to attend to all those things that we have ignored.
A rabbi waited in line to have his car filled with gas just before a long holiday weekend. It was a full-service station and the attendant worked quickly, but there were many cars ahead of him. Finally, the attendant motioned to him to move forward to a vacant pump. Rabbi, said the man, I’m sorry about the delay. It seems as if everyone waits until the last minute to get ready for a long trip. The Rabbi chuckled. Oy. I know what you mean. It’s the same in my business!
That’s us isn’t it? Like the father in Harry Chapin’s song, suddenly, we get older, we realize what we are missing and we stand in line seeking to fill up on the love and good that we passed by so many times. We want to heal our broken relationships. We want to make up for lost time. The problem is, we can lose time but we can never restore it. Once it’s gone, it’s gone forever The rabbis of our Talmud tell us that when we stand before God in heaven for judgment of our lives, we will be asked five questions:
Did you conduct your business honestly? Did you set times to study Torah? Did you engage in procreation? Did you hope for deliverance? Did you seek wisdom and discern one thing from another?
I think there is one more question God will ask us: How do you explain those times when projects and things were more important to you than people? If we want to be prepared to answer that question, we need to ask ourselves now: Who do we need to spend more time with? What do we need to cut out of our schedule to make that possible? What sacrifices do we need to make?
The psalmist pleads with God: “Teach us to number all our days, so that we may gain a heart of wisdom.” But God has already provided the teaching. It’s up to us to heed it.
Let me close with a poem by Charles Hanson Towne:
Around the corner I have a friend In this great city that has no end; Yet days go by, and weeks rush on, And before I know it, a year is gone. I never see my old friend’s face, For life is a swift and terrible race. He knows I like him just as well As in the days when I rang his bell And he rang mine. We were younger then, And now we are busy, tired men; Tired: with trying to make a name. “Tomorrow,” I say, “I will call on Jim. Just to show that I’m thinking of him.” But tomorrow comes – and tomorrow goes… And the distance between grows and grows. Around the corner! Yet miles away… “Here’s a telegram sir… Jim died today.” And that’s what we get, and deserve in the end. Around the corner, a vanished friend.”
So be present – truly present – in the lives of those you love now, because you just do not know how long you will have the opportunity. Circumstances change. People die. Children grow up. You have no guarantee of tomorrow. If you want to express love, you had better do it now.
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brentrogers · 4 years
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Podcast: Joking About Suicide: Is It Ever Okay?
Is it ever OK to joke about mental illness or suicide? In today’s Not Crazy podcast, Gabe and Lisa welcome Frank King, a comedian who’s turned his struggles with major depression and suicidal thinking into comedic material.
What do you think? Is joking about suicide too heavy? Or is humor a good coping mechanism? Join us for an in-depth discussion on gallows humor.
(Transcript Available Below)
Subscribe to Our Show!
And Please Remember to Rate & Review Us!
  Guest Information for ‘Frank King — Joking and Suicide’ Podcast Episode
Frank King, Suicide Prevention speaker and Trainer was a writer for The Tonight Show for 20 years.
Depression and suicide run in his family. He’s thought about killing himself more times than he can count. He’s fought a lifetime battle with Major Depressive Disorder and Chronic Suicidality, turning that long dark journey of the soul into five TEDx Talks and sharing his lifesaving insights on Mental Health Awareness with associations, corporations, and colleges.
A Motivational Public Speaker who uses his life lessons to start the conversation giving people permission to give voice to their feelings and experiences surrounding depression and suicide.
And doing it by coming out, as it were, and standing in his truth, and doing it with humor.
He believes that where there is humor there is hope, where there is laughter there is life, nobody dies laughing. The right person, at the right time, with the right information, can save a life.
 About The Not Crazy Podcast Hosts
Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and speaker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular book, Mental Illness is an Asshole and other Observations, available from Amazon; signed copies are also available directly from Gabe Howard. To learn more, please visit his website, gabehoward.com.
        Lisa is the producer of the Psych Central podcast, Not Crazy. She is the recipient of The National Alliance on Mental Illness’s “Above and Beyond” award, has worked extensively with the Ohio Peer Supporter Certification program, and is a workplace suicide prevention trainer. Lisa has battled depression her entire life and has worked alongside Gabe in mental health advocacy for over a decade. She lives in Columbus, Ohio, with her husband; enjoys international travel; and orders 12 pairs of shoes online, picks the best one, and sends the other 11 back.
    Computer Generated Transcript for “Frank King- Joking and Suicide” Episode
Editor’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thank you.
Lisa: You’re listening to Not Crazy, a psych central podcast hosted by my ex-husband, who has bipolar disorder. Together, we created the mental health podcast for people who hate mental health podcasts.
Gabe: Hey, everybody, and welcome to the Not Crazy Podcast. My name is Gabe Howard and with me, as always, is Lisa. Lisa, do you have a new beginning this week?
Lisa: Oh, you totally ruined my thing. I was gonna do hi, I’m Lisa, but like in a cute voice.
Gabe: You think using like a different inflection, but the exact same words is a new introduction for you?
Lisa: Yes, I’m going to do different inflections.
Gabe: That’s terrible.
Lisa: I’ve been thinking about it for a full seven days.
Gabe: It’s terrible. You know, I am very happy that you’re here and I’m very happy that the show is about comedy. We are going to talk about is comedy and being funny surrounding mental health issues OK? Well, we kind of think it is. But Lisa, today we have a guest.
Lisa: Yes. Our guest, Frank King, lives with major depression and suffers from suicidal ideation, and he describes himself as a warrior in his lifelong battle with mental illness. And before we get started, we are going to talk about suicide. And Frank is a comedian. So it’s going to come up pretty quick. So be prepared for that.
Gabe: And there’s your trigger warning, folks, and after we’re done talking to Frank. Lisa and I will be back to tell you our thoughts, you know, behind his back.
Lisa: And recorded, so not really behind his back. He could still listen to it.
Gabe: I’m glad you told me that, because
Lisa: You forgot?
Gabe: Yeah, yeah, that just yeah.
Lisa: Yeah.
Gabe: I often forget that people are listening
Lisa: Really?
Gabe: No. No, never.
Gabe: And we’re just going to attack him a whole bunch. We’re gonna be like, that’s offensive. That’s awful. That’s terrible. People feel this way. And would you joke about murder? The answer, of course, is that people do joke about murder. People joke about all kinds of things. But I feel like we should let Frank defend himself. Frank, welcome to the show.
Frank: Thanks, Gabe. Thanks for the warm welcome.
Lisa: Oh, thank you for being here.
Gabe: Are you glad you said yes?
Frank: Huh, do you want me to be honest or kind?
Lisa: Too soon to say.
Frank: No, I’m delighted to be here. Glad we could find a time to do this, although I haven’t got another booking till May 2021, so I got plenty of time.
Gabe: COVID has slowed us all down. Frank, you’re a mental health comedian. That’s literally how you describe yourself. Frank King, the mental health comedian. Why? Can you tell us about that?
Frank: Yeah, I told my first joke in fourth grade and the kids laughed and I told my mom I’m gonna be a comedian. She said, because education is a big deal in our family. Well, son, you are gonna go to college and get a degree. Now, after college, you can be, I don’t know a goat herder if you choose. But you, my son, are going to be a goat herder with a degree. So I went to school in Chapel Hill. I got two degrees. One in political science, one in industrial relations.
Lisa: Oh, I didn’t know that was the thing.
Frank: I didn’t either.
Gabe: Can you get a job in that or did you have to fall back on comedy?
Frank: No. UNC Chapel Hill has a fabulous placements center. I interviewed literally 77 times. No second interviews, no job offers. So they’re looking at me thinking this guy’s a clown. And they were correct. So most people give up a good job to do comedy. But I was functionally unemployable. So my girlfriend, high school girlfriend and college, her father worked for an insurance company and he wrangled me a job as a marketing rep of an insurance company in Raleigh. And then we moved to San Diego. I should have never married my first wife. I knew going down the aisle it was not going to work. I just didn’t have the testicular fortitude to back out. We had nothing in common, essentially. And you know what they say, opposites attract. She was pregnant. I wasn’t. So, we got married and, in La Jolla, California, which is a suburb of San Diego, although La Jolla would tell you that San Diego is actually a suburb of La Jolla, the Comedy Store had a branch there, the world famous Comedy Store on Sunset.
Gabe: Yeah. Very cool.
Frank: And so I
Lisa: Yeah, I watched it when I was a kid.
Frank: And so I did what I tell comedians or want to be comedians to do. Go and sit through open mic night twice. See how bad everybody is, 75% of them. And that will give you the courage. I went down, sat through two nights of it and sure enough, 75, 80 percent were horrible. And I’m thinking I’m that funny just walking around. And so the third night I went, I got up. I did my five minutes. It was all about moving from North Carolina to California because back then that was quite a bit of culture shock. The joke I remember is I’d never seen guacamole. I’ve never actually seen an avocado growing up in North Carolina. So I pick up a chip and I’m headed for the bowl and I stop. I’m hovering over the bowl, staring at the guacamole. You know what guacamole looks like. The hostess comes running over. Frank, I’ll bet you don’t know what that is. You’re not from California. That is what we call guacamole. And it’s good. And I said, yes, I bet it was good the first time somebody ate it. And in my head that night, it’s only happened a couple of times in my life. I had the thought unbidden. I’m home on stage
Lisa: Aww.
Frank: There. And then my second thought was I would do this for a living. I have no idea how because I had no idea how difficult it is to make a living doing standup comedy. Had I known, I probably would not have tried.
Gabe: Frank, I love that story and that, of course, answers the second part, how you became a comedian, but why mental health? Why a mental health comedian?
Frank: Well, we’ll get there.
Gabe: Get there faster, Frank.
Lisa: Don’t, don’t.
Gabe: That’s what I’m telling you.
Frank: I see, okay.
Lisa: Don’t, Gabe. It’s just like with you, if you try to make him go faster, he’ll go slower. Just think Zen.
Frank: Yeah,
Lisa: Be chill.
Frank: Yeah.
Lisa: See all these years, that’s why I let you talk, because otherwise it takes longer.
Gabe: That’s so sweet.
Frank: I did amateur night for about a year, and then I won a contest in San Diego. Said to my girlfriend, now my wife of 32 years.
Lisa: Oh.
Frank: Look, I’m going on the road to do standup comedy. I had 10 weeks booked, which I thought was forever. You want to come along? And she said inexplicably, yes. So we put everything into storage that we couldn’t fit into my tiny little Dodge Colt.
Gabe: Wow.
Frank: No air conditioning. And we hit the road for 2,629 nights in a row. Nonstop, beer bar, pool hall, honky tonk, comedy club. And she just came along for the ride. We had no home, no domicile. No, we were, you know.
Gabe: Now, generally speaking, when people are homeless, I think maybe they’re not so good at what they’re doing. But?
Lisa: It’s apparently a different type of industry.
Frank: And it was a great time of our lives. I mean, back then they put you up in a comedy condo, three bedrooms. So I worked with and spent time, weeks at a time in condos with Dennis Miller and Jeff Foxworthy and Ron White, Ellen DeGeneres, Rosie O’Donnell and Dana Carvey and Adam Sandler. Back when they were just comics. So we rode that wave for about seven years. And then I got a job in radio in Raleigh, North Carolina, my old hometown, and I took a number one morning show. I drove it to number six in 18 months. A friend of mine said you didn’t just drive it into the ground. You drove it into Middle Earth. So I did.
Lisa: Well, but in absolute value, that’s a, that’s a big up.
Gabe: I mean, six is a bigger number than one, congratulations.
Lisa: There you go. Yeah.
Frank: So then my boss at the time, we’re still friends, said to me, well, you go back on the road doing stand up. Well, standup was going away. More clubs are closing than opening. So I’ve always been very clean. Which cost me in the one nighter beer bar situations. But join the National Speaker Association, got to the rubber chicken circuit and rode that and made good money just doing HR friendly corporate clean comedy until 2007 and a half basically. And then the market, you know, the speaking market dropped out 80% practically overnight. And my wife and I lost everything we worked for for twenty five years in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy. And that’s when I found out what the barrel of my gun tastes like. Spoiler alert. I didn’t pull the trigger. I tell that story and a friend of mine came up afterwards, who never heard me say that before. And he goes, Hey, man, how come you didn’t pull the trigger? I go, Hey, man, could you try to sound a little less disappointed? So. And if you want to know why I didn’t pull the trigger, it’s in my first TED talk.
Gabe: I mean, sincerely, we. This is the crux of the show, right? That’s like really heavy. Like when you said it, I was like, oh, my God, what can I do to save, Frank? You already told me that it was.
Lisa: Yeah, I was also thinking whoa whoa, did not see that coming. All right.
Gabe: Right. But you said it funny. I mean, there’s no other way to put it. That was a joke about something really, really serious. And I imagine that there’s a shock value there. There’s a like that was unexpected.
Frank: Yeah, and it is there on purpose.
Gabe: Do you get shit for that? I mean, I can already read the letters. I was trying to listen to your podcast. We were all having a good time. And then Frank made a joke about suicide that I wasn’t expecting. How dare you? And on one hand, I want to agree with them, like, oh, like that would be unexpected. But on the other hand, I appreciate humor. I embrace humor. It is healthy. How do you answer the people that tell you this?
Lisa: Well, first, I want to hear how he decided to talk about this, because this friend comes up to him and he tells the story. Is that because that friend thought it was hilarious and you were like, oh, this is definitely where the money is? I’m gonna go this direction. I mean, how did that happen?
Frank: Well, I had a mental health act at that point when he actually said that. So I just, as many comics do, 
Lisa: Ok.
Frank: Added to that because everybody laughed. The actual original line was bankruptcy, lost everything. And I had an itch on the roof of my mouth I could only scratch with the front side on my nickel plated .38, which people found a little graphic. So I,
Gabe: Yeah.
Lisa: Well.
Frank: I came up with the what the barrel of my gun tastes like. It’s faster. And what I do is I do it on purpose for two reasons. One, anybody in the audience who has a mental illness who hears me say, I can tell you what the barrel of my gun tastes like, you can see them lean forward because all of a  sudden, they realize that I get it. And it shocks the neuro typical people, which is what I’m after, into paying better attention, because that’s why I’m there, is to let the mentally ill people know that they’re not alone and help the neurotypical people decode how someone can be so depressed that they would take their own life. And so, but then again, you notice I talk about taste of the barrel of my gun and then I go, spoiler alert, didn’t pull the trigger. So you get the shock and then you get the joke, although it only gets a nervous laugh, that line, you know. Huh. And then the big payoff is friend of mine came up. Why didn’t you pull the trigger? Could you. Yeah. So it is constructed that way on purpose. The shock value. And then the first small laugh. Should we be laughing at the fact you put a gun in his mouth? And then the big laugh with the guy who came up afterwards and said, you know, and I said try to sound a little less disappointed.
Frank: So but yeah, it’s, um, except for the fact that I was given some grief about the original line, about the itch on the roof of my mouth. Nobody’s ever complained about the. I don’t know whether they I’ve shocked him into apoplexy. They can’t. I’d like to say something, but I can’t. And there’s a comedy principle there in that if you give them something very serious like the gun in the mouth and you follow it with something amusing, then they’re much more ready and able to handle the next piece of serious information that you give them, regardless of what it is. So there’s a rhythm to and then the reason, you know, everything is where it is in that bit and in the in my speech. What happened was I would do standup comedy and I’d always wanted to make a living and a difference because when I went to work in insurance, I saw all the old school motivational guys, Zig Ziglar and like that. I thought, man, I could do that if I just had something to teach somebody. Well, when I came so close, and it runs in my family. My grandmother died by suicide.
Frank: My mother found her. My great aunt died by suicide. My mother and I found her. I was four years old, I screamed for days. I thought, I think I can maybe talk about it. And then I bought a book by a woman named Judy Carter called The Message of You: Turning Your Life into a Money Making Speaking Career. And I went into it thinking, I’ve got nothing. And Judy walks you through finding your heart story and what you should be talking about. And about halfway through, I thought I do have something to talk about. So I use Judy’s book to design my first TED talk. I used a book called Talk Like TED to refine it. And then I delivered it and I came out to the world at 52 as somebody who’s depressed and suicidal. My wife didn’t know my family, my friends, no one knew. Now to Gabe’s point, the only thing I’ve ever gotten grief for about that TEDx talk was that I didn’t know that the preferred language around suicide was die by suicide, completed a suicide, in that I said committed suicide. And it actually cost me a gig. They saw that, and I said, well, look at the next three.
Gabe: Yeah.
Frank: But they didn’t want to hire me because I used the term committed suicide.
Gabe: We talk about this a lot. Everywhere I go. I used to be the host of a podcast called A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast and all of our mail. OK. I should back off that a little. Not all of our mail but, but probably 75% of our mail, was your language is offensive. It should be called a person living with bipolar, a person living with schizophrenia and a portable digital file that you can listen to at your leisure. And I thought that’s just so cumbersome. But what really struck me about this language debate is, for the record, I agree that we should say completed suicide or attempted suicide. I don’t like the term commit because it makes it sound. I agree with that change. But so what? You probably agree with the thought behind it as well. And you just didn’t know at the time. We’re not educating people if we start, you know, firing people every time they make a mistake. I mean, just heaven forbid.
Frank: Well, here’s the deal. I said there is no bigger commitment than blowing your brains out. Two, there’s an old joke about breakfast, bacon and eggs. The chicken is involved. The pig was committed. Still didn’t get the gig. But I felt better.
Gabe: I understand. Look, I’m not saying that there’s not an iota of truth in the way we talk to each other and the way that we speak to one another and the words that we choose to use. It’s one of the reasons that you’re probably a comedian because, you know, that language can be manipulated in a way that makes people pay closer attention. 
Frank: Oh, yeah.
Gabe: Or a way that makes people laugh or that, you know, ruffles people’s feathers. We’re all aware of this. But I still have to point out time and time again, if we put as much effort into getting people with serious mental illness help as we do in deciding how to discuss people with serious mental illness, I think the world would be a better place. I had to take a lot of shit about that, Frank.
Frank: Yeah. My radio co-host, had an expression, is that the hill you want to die on? And no, that’s not the hill I want to die. That’s not where I want to spend my effort. I’ll use proper language. But I’m not you know, right before I came on with you guys, I was on a dental podcast because dentists have a high rate and several have died recently, high profile. And the gentleman I was talking to said committed suicide. And I just let it go. I wasn’t going to school him. I mean, if I saw him later, I’d say, hey, man, just a note, you know, just for your own edification and to avoid trouble in the future. And I have done that with other people. You know, people say something. I said, look, you know, when you figure somebody has mental illness, you need to avoid this or that. It is not always language so much as it is. You know, I choose joy.
Gabe: Yeah.
Frank: Ok, well, one of the guys who’s involved in our book is very much a positive motivational speaker sort of fellow. And he thinks, he said something about the state of mind, that positive state of mind and choosing positive thoughts is the antidote to depression. And I said, you have to be very careful about that because there are those of us who are organically predisposed. And I am the most positive person who’s suicidal you’ll probably ever meet. I have a great attitude. You know, I have chronic suicidal ideation so I could blow my brains out tomorrow. But, you know, it’s not a matter of attitude.
Lisa: Positive thinking only takes you so far.
Frank: Yeah, it’s like saying to a parent of a child who has a problem depression and thoughts of suicide to hire a coach. A life coach. It’s like, no. And the pushback I get the most on, Gabe, is somebody will confront me. How can you joke about mental illness and suicide?
Gabe: Yeah.
Frank: An overarching question, an in the macro question. How can you joke about depression and thoughts of suicide? I say, so here’s the deal. In comedy, maybe you know this, you can joke about any group to which you belong.
Lisa: Right.
Gabe: Exactly. Yes. Yes. I always hate it when people tell me how to talk about myself
Frank: Yeah.
Gabe: Or when people tell me how to react to my own trauma or my own experiences, like you can’t talk about your life that way. What I
Frank: What?
Gabe: I just. Listen, having mental illness. I live with bipolar disorder. And it is rough and it is tough. And society is constantly on top of me telling me what to do, how to behave, how to act. You know, this treatment is good. This treatment is bad. Anti psychiatry, pro psychiatry, med model. Just everywhere, just like everybody has an opinion about my life. And then people start having opinions of how I’m supposed to think and discuss my life. It’s bad enough you all have opinions on everything else I do. But now you’re trying to control how I think about my own experiences and explain them to others. Now, now I want to fight.
Lisa: Well, they think they’re helping.
Gabe: I know they think they’re helping, but they’re not.
Frank: The name your previous podcast was something of a bipolar? It was a?
Gabe: A bipolar schizophrenic and a podcast.
Frank: Yes, I thought it was so three guys walking into a bar.
Gabe: Yeah, we stole it from three guys in a pizza place
Frank: Yeah. Exactly.
Lisa: Well, the name of this one is Not Crazy, so if the question at the beginning of the episode is, is it OK to joke about mental illness? I think we’ve already answered it with the title.
Frank: Yes.
Gabe: Yeah, we get pushback on the title. People suck.
Lisa: I know.
Frank: So do I. I get. I just got off the podcast with the dentists, and I said, look, before I leave, let me give you my phone number, my cell phone number, and I give it to him twice, and I say put it in the show notes. And here’s the deal. The reason I do that, I do it every keynote that I do. I give my cell phone number.
Lisa: Really? 
Frank: Yep.
Lisa: Ok.
Frank: I say, look, if you’re suicidal, call the suicide prevention lifeline or text HELP to 741741. If you’re just having a really bad day, call a crazy person like me. Because we’re not going to judge. We’re just going to listen.
Gabe: Yeah.
Frank: As a friend of mine says, co-sign on your B.S. and I’ve gotten pushback on you shouldn’t use word crazy. So, here’s the thing. I’m taking it back.
Gabe: Yes.
Frank: As gay people took back the term queer and made it not a pejorative. I’m taking crazy back because I own it. I’ve paid for it. It’s my word if I want to use it. And so, yeah, that gets my dander up. It’s, you know.
Gabe: Here, here’s the thing about comedy that I love so much. And I agree with you and Lisa and I talk about this all the time, for some reason, we’re so hung up on words that we’re not at all hung up on context.
Frank: No.
Gabe: Do you know how many horrible things have happened to me with the right words being used? Mr. Howard, I’m sorry. I’m going to have to fire you from your job because you’re a person living with mental illness
Lisa: But we’ve talked about why that is.
Gabe: Why?
Lisa: Because it’s easier. Do you know how much trouble and effort it would be to end homelessness or provide an adequate mental health safety net or suicide prevention programs? Those are hard and they’re expensive. Telling people to start talking in a different way is much, much easier and free.
Gabe: And you can do it on Facebook.
Lisa: Yeah, that helps, too. You don’t have to leave your house.
Frank: And I get together once a month, sometimes more, on a Monday with my crazy comedy klatch, anywhere from two to six of us who are all crazy. All have a mental illness of one stripe or another. And we get together for an hour. We take off our game face and we are just ourselves and say things that would. One morning somebody comes and goes, you know, a guy jumped off a six story building downtown. I go, six stories? Not a chance in hell. You could survive six stories. Just leave you a quadriplegic. I’m going at least 10.
Lisa: Good thinking.
Frank: And there’s somebody at the table behind me is like, did you just? I go, it’s a math problem. You know, you just have to reach terminal velocity. Give me a break. But that’s how you know. Somebody said something about suicide. And I said, look, if you going to die by suicide, don’t jump off a bridge and land on some poor civilian’s car and ruin their lives forever. Get a bomb vest, find some jackass and wrap your arms around him and then pull the trigger. Do, you know, make the world a better place.
Lisa: That’s actually super good advice.
Frank: Yeah.
Gabe: That is terrible advice and Not Crazy, does not does not condone murder in any way.
Lisa: I just can’t believe. I have spent a lot of time thinking about suicide. I have never thought of that.
Gabe: Listen, what we’re talking about is called gallows humor, it’s dark humor. Now, I am a big fan of it. In my darkest moments, the things that, honest to God, saved my life were the people that looked at me and told me jokes like we just talked about here. But not everybody likes them and not everybody understands them.
Frank: No.
Gabe: I mean, it doesn’t matter if we’re talking about mental illness, mental health or. You know, my family. OK, here’s what this reminds me of. My dad got in a horrible accident. I mean, he had to be life flighted like it was really serious. We got a call. We had to get in the car. We had to drive 12 hours because we live in Ohio. He lives in Tennessee. And we go there. And my dad is 70 years old and he’s listen, he’s beat to shit. And the nurse needed him to sign a consent form. And, of course, you know, my dad, he’s on painkillers. He’s scared. He’s in the hospital. Did I mention he was, you know, like, really physically messed up from the accident? And he’s giving the nurse trouble. He’s like, I don’t want to. I don’t want to. I don’t want to. And I said, you know, Dad, you need to sign that. And he goes, I don’t want to.
Gabe: And I looked my dad in the eyes and I said, if you don’t sign that, I’m going to beat you up. And there was this awkward moment of silence for like a second. And my dad just starts laughing. He just starts cracking up. He’s laughing so hard that he’s like, don’t. Don’t make me laugh. It hurts. It hurts. And he grabs the clipboard and he signs it. Now, I’ve told that story, I don’t know, a thousand times and about 50% of the time people gasp like, oh, my God, this sounds like a really serious emergency. Your dad had to be life flighted. Why would you say that to him? What kind of a horrible, awful son are you? Look, I know my dad. This is how we talk to each other. It lightens the mood. My dad thought it was funny. And listen, we didn’t have a lot to laugh at, so we had to laugh at the only thing that was in the room, which was the fact that my dad got in an accident that almost killed him and had to be life flighted and his son had to drive 12 hours to see him. I think it’s the same way with mental illness. I think that’s what we need to laugh at. I think if we’re not laughing, we’re crying.
Lisa: Humor is a way to deal with dark topics that are uncomfortable, it’s a way to make you feel better about things that are sucky.
Gabe: But not everybody believes that. How do you counterbalance that? Because in any room, especially your rooms, Frank, they’re big rooms, there’s five hundred a thousand people in those rooms. And better than average odds are, there’s a couple of hundred people that think that you’re a jackass that’s making fun of mentally ill people and you’re doing a great disservice.
Frank: Yeah, well, you know, that’s the difference between being a speaker and a comedian. As a comedian, I’m very careful. You’ve got to know your audience.
Lisa: Well, that’s really the key. Knowing your audience. 
Frank: Yeah.
Lisa: It eliminates this entire discussion.
Gabe: Yeah, but you’re hired at corporate events. The audience doesn’t choose themselves. This makes it a little more difficult. Right, Frank? I mean, if you’re.
Lisa: Well, no, because he doesn’t actually need to please the audience, he just needs to please the people who hired him.
Gabe: Now, come on, that that’s.
Lisa: Those two things will probably usually go together, but not always.
Gabe: We’re not playing lawyer ball here, Lisa.
Lisa: I’m just saying.
Frank: Yeah, the I’ve got a friend is a funeral director, mortician, so is his dad, and they have the darkest sense of humor. I go into a motivational speech for the Selected Independent Funeral Homes. They call me up and they said.
Lisa: This is a good joke. I can tell. It’s going to be a good, good setup.
Gabe: Well, this isn’t a joke, it’s a story, right?
Frank: True story.
Gabe: It’s a true story.
Lisa: It’s going to be funny in the end, though, I can tell.
Gabe: Everything Frank says is funny.
Frank: A month ahead of time they call me. What do you call your motivational speech for morticians? And I was kidding. I said I call it Thinking Inside the Box. And they liked it so much. I had to have my first slide is, you know, Thinking Inside the Box. The son and father are hysterical. And then his dad is on a ship. I’m doing 10 days on a 115 day world cruise. And I don’t know if you guys know this, but the longer the cruise, the older the passengers.
Gabe: Really?
Lisa: Well, that makes sense. They have the time.
Gabe: I guess. Yeah, they don’t have jobs. Yeah, that makes sense.
Frank: Yeah. One hundred fifteen days, we’re talking old people and their parents. Every night, same thing for dessert: oxygen. Yeah. Did a show in an 800 seat theater, it was packed. I call my wife, honey, there was so much white hair in that theater, it looked like a Q-tip convention. So in my act I have this story about how every industry has a favorite joke. And I tell one about the grain industry. There’s one about my favorite actually is ophthalmologists and optometrists. Their favorite joke is this is my impression of an ophthalmologist or an optometrist making love. How’s that? How about now? Better or worse? One or two? Yeah. And I said, guys like if you’ve never worn glasses, ask somebody because that’s funny.
Lisa: Well, yeah, I was going to say only people who wear glasses are gonna get that.
Frank: Well, then there’s a mortician joke and the mortician joke is what’s the most difficult thing about being a mortician? And it’s trying to look sad at a $35,000 funeral. So I tell the joke
Lisa: That’s not a joke, though. That’s real.
Frank: It’s true, but I tell the joke and I say
Gabe: Well, but it is funny. 
Frank: It is funny, and the audience laughs. And I say is anybody here in the audience, a mortician, retired or active duty? And a guy on the balcony raise his hand. I go, what’s a mortician doing on a 115 day world cruise? He stands up, waves his arm across a crowd and goes inventory. And it kills. 
Gabe: Oh.
Frank: And I’ve been, and it’s been killing ever since. And it may be, Gabe, because he delivers the punch line.
Lisa: It’s entirely because he delivers it.
Frank: Yeah, exactly.
Lisa: Otherwise, it’s not funny. Otherwise, it’s just mean.
Frank: Yes, comedy, there’s an art and a science. Comedians should always be shooting up, not down.
Lisa: Exactly. Yes.
Frank: So if I was neurotypical, I couldn’t make any of the jokes I make about depression and suicide because I’d be shooting down.
Gabe: Right. You’d be making fun of people below you on that. Yeah.
Lisa: Yeah, making fun of a oppressed group is not funny. It’s just piling on to the problems that are already there.
Frank: It’s like, women should always win in a joke. And that’s why men shouldn’t make fun of, or minorities. It’s difficult being a white comedian. Six foot tall, brown haired white guy because I.
Lisa: Yeah, yeah, you poor dear.
Gabe: We’re sorry, Frank. At least God gave you a mental illness so you had something to talk about.
Frank: Yeah, I’m well aware of being born a white male, heterosexual Protestant in the US gives you a huge advantage. But frankly, if you have born that way in a relatively stable family and you haven’t succeeded at something, you’re doing it wrong.
Lisa: Yeah.
Gabe: Yeah.
Frank: Yeah, so, if you are gay or black or Mexican, you can joke about all those. Comedy is tragedy plus time or difficulty plus time. So, you know, because minorities have more difficulty. If you’re a minority, you can joke about all minorities. If you’re a white guy, not so much. So there are comedy rules and regulations that bleed over into my speaking. I try to teach my speaking coaching students this. There should not be a word in there that doesn’t serve a purpose, including moving the narrative forward. I mean, you got to be very careful how you word things, because in radio, they say it’s not what you said. It’s not what they heard. It’s what they thought they heard. And nowadays it’s all filtered, more so, I think, than in the past because of the division. You know, the right and the left and the P.C. and the preferred pronouns. And I was on campus, Gabe, at University of Montana, Billings, two nice young men drive me around to radio stations. And one of them said, you know, Frank, comics have a tough time on campus nowadays because people get offended. Do you worry about people getting offended? I said, well, if I was a comedian, I’d be worried. However, I’m here on campus to save lives. So my philosophy is. And then there’s an F and an ’em. F ’em.
Lisa: Hmm.
Frank: I don’t care whose toes I step on if it means I’m saving people.
Gabe: Exactly. It’s always to your point about everybody being offended. If people are offended, I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. And again, I want to be very, very clear. There are offensive statements
Frank: Oh, yeah.
Gabe: That go too far. But if people are sitting around discussing what you said and they’re passionate about what you said and they disagree passionately with what you said, they’re applying their critical thinking skills to what you said and determining if they like it or dislike it, agree with it, don’t agree with it. And I think that there’s power in that. If after I leave a whole bunch of people get together and discuss everything that I said, I think that a lot more people will be helped than if everybody’s like, well, he didn’t do anything. I mean, literally just it sucks to not be remembered. Don’t get me wrong. I want to be remembered for good things, Frank.
Frank: Yeah.
Gabe: But I want to be remembered.
Lisa: Well, but it’s interesting what you said there, that there are some things that go too far. But isn’t that your base premise, that depending on your audience, there’s not? That there is, in fact, nothing that goes too far?
Frank: Well, there’s too soon.
Lisa: Ok, too soon.
Frank: Yeah.
Lisa: All right. Not exactly the same.
Frank: But yeah, I think Gabe’s right. I think if you leave them talking and I have no problem with someone, who comes up afterwards and says to me, look, I have a problem with blank. And so we talk about it. Well, here’s my philosophy. Here’s why I said that. Here’s why I chose those words. Now tell me why you find that? What do you find offensive about that? Because I know I can learn things too. I mean it’s.
Lisa: Has that happened? Can you think of any? I mean, one of these discussions has perhaps led to you changing up a joke with or rethinking something or gaining new info?
Frank: Back in the day during the AIDS crisis, back in the Reagan years, a lot of comics, male, heterosexual, made jokes about AIDS because it was the gay plague. Back then, anyway. When it became affecting heterosexuals, it wasn’t quite as funny, but I told a joke in the punchline involved AIDS and a friend of mine took me aside. He goes, Look, I know you don’t have a mean bone in your body, but I don’t think you understand how devastating this epidemic is among groups and communities. And so, I think if you knew or if I can impress upon you how wrong that joke is, that you wouldn’t do it. And I dropped it immediately from my act once he explained why it was so wrong. So it has happened. It doesn’t happen a lot. And I’m very careful about, you know, getting there.
Lisa: Clearly, you’ve thought it through or you would be using the joke in the first place.
Frank: Yes. Yeah. So I am open to criticism and changing things. Like with committed suicide, I said, OK, that’s the preferred language. Or live with bipolar. That’s a preferred language that’s less offensive to some people, you know. What does it cost me to change it?
Lisa: That’s an interesting point. Yeah, that’s a good point, what does it cost you?
Frank: Yeah,
Lisa: You to change it?
Frank: But I’m with Gabe, I don’t think that should be our focus.
Lisa: Right. Right.
Frank: And, Lisa. I’m with you on this. That’s easy to do. Solving a homeless problem or much more difficult.
Gabe: Right. That’s where I am.
Lisa: Do you feel that some of the criticism you got is, you know, when I see people who are using incorrect terms, et cetera, that you feel like, OK, they don’t know any better, this is your chance to educate. This is your chance to inform. Do you feel that the thinking was, hey, if you’re going to broach the topic, you should already be at that level? Like, is that part of the criticism that people feel like you, of all people, should know better?
Frank: Yeah, I would say so,
Lisa: Would you not get that same amount of criticism if you yourself did not have a mental illness?
Frank: Yeah, exactly. And I have, as Gabe does I’m sure, that deep understanding of the. I don’t know, Gabe, if you do this, but I spend a lot of time by myself in self reflection inside my own head and.
Gabe: Of course I do. Constantly.
Lisa: That’s mental illness.
Frank: Yeah,
Gabe: That’s pretty much the only place I live.
Lisa: Yeah.
Frank: Well, I’m driving one day and I thought to myself, I’m not going to use the term battle depression anymore because battle implies I can win. I cannot win. I can tie. Uneasy truce like North and South Korea. I can lose. Kill myself, but I cannot win. And I’ve had arguments with people, no you can be cured. No. No. For me, there is no cure.
Lisa: Right. Only treatment.
Frank: I live with it. I take sort of an aikido approach. Aikido is a martial art where you blend with your person coming at you rather than go up against their energy, you blend with the energy, take their balance. Because depression is a great power and energy. And so rather than bump up against it, I try to blend with it and move forward with it. You use that energy to continue to move forward. It’s difficult, but that mindset of rather than, you know, battling it.
Lisa:  We’ll be right back after these messages.
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Lisa: And we’re back talking about whether or not it is OK to joke about mental illness with comedian, Frank King. Frank, I have been wondering, after watching some of your acts, where does your comedy come from?
Frank: I believe my comedy timing, imagination is simply the flip side of my major depressive disorder and chronic suicidal ideation. I taught a class called Stand Up for Mental Health. You have to have a diagnosis to get in, a diagnosis to teach it. I got to tell you, they were the best students I ever had. Okay, here’s a dark one. These are jokes. This is the way it came out of her head. Most comics got a whole page, and they have to like redact two thirds of it. She goes I went to see my psychiatrist. I go, Camille, what did the psychiatrist say? Well, he asked me if I was depressed? I said yes. He asked if I had any thoughts of suicide? Yes. He said, do you have a plan? I said, I have five plans. Five plans? She goes, Yeah. You want to hear them all or just the ones that involve you? It’s dark, but there’s not a word in that that doesn’t move the narrative forward. Here’s one. Tosh. She said, My boyfriend said he wanted to break up with me. I said, well, why did he want to do that, Tosh? She goes, because he wants to see other people. I said, What did you say? I said, I’m bipolar. Give me a minute. Just that’s the way it came out of her head. And here’s a deal, I can teach you to write standup comedy.
Frank: I could teach you perform standup comedy. What I cannot teach you to do is process. So if somebody said, Frank, one pill one time, never be depressed again, never another suicidal thought. The only side effect is you’re not going to process as a comedian. Then keep the pill, I’ll live with the downside to hang onto the upside. That is where my comedy comes from. And heckler lines, people go, how did you think up? I’m on the bus. I was in Cambodia. We were on busses to go to the airport to catch a plane to come home. And the woman in front of me, an older woman on a cruise. Go figure. I was doing a podcast from my phone in the seat behind her and she goes, hang up the phone. I go, it’s not a phone call, it’s a podcast, I’m working. Hang up, eh. So I went back another row, kept my voice down. Well, it didn’t please her at all. It didn’t mollify her. So we’re getting ready to get off the bus. We all stand up. I’m several steps behind as she turns. She goes “drop dead.” And where this came from, I can’t tell you. I said, given your age, I’m guessing you’re going first. People say, well, how do you think that up? I didn’t think that up. The first time she heard it was first time I heard. I have no idea. But that’s my, that’s. You don’t have to be mentally ill to write comedy or perform comedy. But it don’t hurt.
Gabe: I always hear these jokes where people say, did you have a good childhood or are you funny? You know, I’ve read a lot of books that say, you know, some of the best comedy comes from traumatic experience.
Frank: Yeah, yeah.
Lisa: Absolutely.
Gabe: And I. Mental illness is a traumatic experience. And I’m not speaking for all the listeners and I’m obviously not speaking for Lisa and Frank, but for me, the humor is all I have some days. If I can’t laugh at it, I’m going to cry. And that’s why these inappropriate and I’m making the, you know, I wish it was a video podcast
Frank: Air quotes.
Gabe: So people could see how often I can make air quotes. If it wasn’t for the humor that I can find in this, it would be nothing but darkness. And that’s the way I see it.
Frank: One last example, I had a heart attack, I was in the woods half mile up a logging trail with the dogs, I had T-mobile, so I didn’t have cell service. And that never fails to get a laugh and.
Lisa: I used to have T-Mobile, yeah.
Frank: Oh, God.
Gabe: Yeah, it sucked.
Frank: Yes. Sucks out loud. Anyway, I got back to the car. Back to the house, yelled at my wife. I’m having a heart attack, dial 911. I heard she came out, got me in an ambulance. I’m at the hospital. Here’s the nice thing about a heart attack. No waiting. Nobody gives a shippa about HIPPA. I’m in the back. And the tragedy plus time equals comedy. But the longer you do comedy, the shorter the time. I’m doing comedy in real time.
Lisa: I could see that.
Frank: That nurse says to me, I’m in great deal of pain. I’m having a heart attack. She goes, Frank, no paperwork. But I just got one question for you. And I said, I’m married, Honey, but I love the way you think. And she’s trying not to laugh. It’s like, Gabe, if I didn’t have my comedy, what would I have? She goes, No, no, no, no. Your full name is Frank Marshall King, the third. But what do you like to be called? And I said, through the pain, Big Daddy. And to this day, when I go back to Oregon Heart & Vascular and somebody sees me from that morning, hey, Big Daddy, how’s it hanging? So, yeah, Gabe, if I didn’t have the humor. I mean, if I didn’t have that way of dealing with the pain, whether it’s a heart attack or mental illness or whatever it happens to be, it’s you know, it’s just the way we cope. 
Gabe: You know, Frank, obviously I live with bipolar disorder, but I’ve also had physical issues. I was rushed in an ambulance to the emergency room. I had a surgery that kind of didn’t turn out so well. And here I am in the emergency room and Lisa is trying desperately to find me.
Lisa: Well, the woman said to me, are you sure he’s here? I know he’s here. I followed the ambulance. He is here. And then she said something and I said, he is a six foot three redhead. He can’t be that hard to find.
Frank: Yeah.
Gabe: And the nurse said, you’re looking for Gabe?
Lisa: He’s only been here like fifteen inutes.
Frank: Well, he makes an impression.
Lisa: That actually happened. 
Gabe: I do. I make an impression.
Lisa: He’s not making that that story up. That actually happened.
Gabe: Now, here I am. The rest of that is true. And Lisa is now yelling at me because I’m so popular.
Frank: No, my ex-wife would tell you, look, Frank, he had a lot. He had a lot of faults, but I never went to a party with him where we didn’t have a good time.
Lisa: I can see that.
Gabe: Now, the reason I’m telling that story is because everybody loves that story. I tell that story all the time. People are like, oh, Gabe, it’s so good that you can keep your humor. It was scary. And that helped Lisa. And, oh, that’s so beautiful talking about it in that way. But whenever I do that for mental illness, people are like, that’s inappropriate stop. And I’m like, no, wait a minute. 
Frank: What?
Gabe: Why? What’s the. This is one of those, you know,
Lisa: Because it’s not as scary.
Gabe: Stigmatizing things. You know, making fun of me, almost dying from a surgery, going wrong and almost bleeding to death at home. People are like, yeah, he’s tough, but joking about mental illness, about bipolar disorder. And people are like I don’t know that you’re taking it seriously. And it’s a very scary illness. And I think you might be hurting other people that suffer from this. And I only point that out because we want mental illness and physical illness to be treated exactly the same. And I guarantee there’s nobody that heard your story about, you know, the big daddy story
Frank: Yeah.
Gabe: About the heart attack. That wasn’t like hell, yeah, he was. You’re a tough guy. But then I hear some of the stuff about suicidality, depression, and like, I don’t know, maybe I don’t like this. And let’s consider just, you know, you don’t have to agree with me immediately. Let’s consider the whys of that. Why do we feel that way? And I think that will allow us to move forward. Look, humor is funny. We need it. We like it. If it’s not for you, don’t listen to it. Frank’s not for everybody.
Frank: It’s a way of breaking down barriers and having a meeting of the minds. Because a laugh is something where your minds have to meet. You have to be in the same place at the same time. You know, seeing the same thing. I tell my comedy students, paint the picture, it’s gotta be very vivid. So they can be there with you. Right there with you.
Gabe: Well, that is awesome. You are awesome.
Frank: Well, thank you very much.
Lisa: Yeah, we really enjoyed it. Where can people find you?
Frank: TheMentalHealthComedian.com is my Web site. My phone number’s there and sometime in the next, I’m guessing this week, there will be an audio book version of a book that Gabe and I are in.
Gabe: Yeah, I actually I think I’m in volume two and you’re in volume one. I didn’t make the cut, but Guts, Grit & The Grind, you can find it on Amazon. It’s a collection of stories from men about their mental health issues, mental illnesses and just the whole concept, we’ve got to give a shout out to Dr. Sally, was that men just don’t talk about their mental health enough and there’s getting to be more men. But I like to joke that I got into this business because it was predominantly women.
Frank: Yes. And Sarah Gaer, whose idea it was and who teaches QPR to first responders, mostly men. She went to the bookstore to find a book on men’s mental health, couldn’t find one. Went on Amazon, couldn’t find one. So she
Gabe: Here we go.
Frank: She put it together. Yes. And if you go to my website, sometime in the next week or so, they’ll be a, put your email in, and you get a free copy of the audio book that I voiced.
Gabe: Nice. Nice. If you want to hear Frank’s voice even more, you know what to do. That would be awesome, Frank. It’s always fun.
Lisa: Oh, thank you again so much.
Frank: Oh, my pleasure. Bye-bye guys, you all be good.  
Lisa: All right, thank you, bye-bye. 
Gabe: Uh-huh, bye-bye. Lisa, what do you think? You didn’t say a whole lot. I mean, it is probably hard with Gabe and Frank on the line.
Lisa: Well, I thought he raised some interesting points. I thought his comedy was pretty funny, that was good. If I were at a conference, I’d want to go see that.
Gabe: Well, you know that that’s interesting because when you started off talking, I thought you were gonna say this sucks. I don’t think we should joke about mental illness. But then you ended with if we were at a conference, I’d want to go see it. It sounds like you’re conflicted, like you’re not sure.
Lisa: No.
Gabe: Whether this is okay or not.
Lisa: Well, I would say that the broader question of is comedy about bad things okay or not has a lot of gray in it. I think that humor and laughter is a recognizable way to deal with dark things. I use it myself. Almost everyone I know uses it. I think this is a universal part of the human condition. We all use humor to get through dark times or to address dark subjects. So, if this is something that you’re uncomfortable with, once he is laughing at his own mental illness, that indicates to the audience that it’s okay to laugh. He’s comfortable with it. So we’re comfortable with it.
Gabe: Lisa, you and I have been friends for forever, and I know that you like gallows humor. I know that you like dark humor.
Lisa: I do, I really do.
Gabe: We both like it. But I noticed that when Frank was telling some of the darker jokes and I mean, he just popped out of nowhere. You looked uncomfortable. I felt uncomfortable. 
Lisa: I don’t know that I’m so much uncomfortable, as just surprised and you’re not sure how to react. You know, like, what do I do? What do I say? What comes next? And, today, whoa, he just went straight for it.   There’s no lead up, no buildup. I think maybe that’s what it was. It was just it’s so shocking to be right in front of your face so fast.
Gabe: But let’s say that I did that. Let’s say you and I were we’re sitting in my living room, it’s 3:00 in the morning and I just I pop that joke. Would you know what to say then?
Lisa: Well, it’s different.
Gabe: Would you have laughed?
Lisa: Yeah, but it’s different when you’re with someone you literally know. I’ve met this man for the first time just now.
Gabe: But why? I think that’s an interesting concept, because kind of what you’re describing is that gallows humor is okay among close friends, privately, but publicly,
Lisa: Well.
Gabe: Maybe it’s not OK? I’m just curious as to why?
Lisa: Well.
Gabe: Listen, I did the same thing. I laughed uncomfortably. Everybody just heard it.
Lisa: I didn’t think about that as whether or not it was one of those things where it’s more for close friends and family or. But that’s not really a practical way to go about things just because most of my friends and family just aren’t that funny. So if I want to hear said humor, I’m gonna have to turn to some sort of mass media.
Gabe: But you’re alone.
Lisa: Oh, okay.
Gabe: You’re doing that mass media alone.
Lisa: Well, what if I were in the audience?
Gabe: There’s no production. There’s no producers. There’s no Psych Central hovering. There’s no, there’s no recording.
Lisa: Right.
Gabe: However, you reacted, is being recorded right now.
Lisa: Right.
Gabe: On recordings that you don’t control. Did that impact the way that you responded?
Lisa: Absolutely.
Gabe: Why?
Lisa: And I think it’s probably, I’m assuming it impacts the way that his audience responds as well. Because you’re looking for society to tell you that this is OK or this is not OK. You’re trying to take your cue from other people as to, because you don’t know how to react. It’s so unusual and it’s so surprising that you’re just not sure what to do. 
Gabe: Isn’t this what gets us in trouble, though? Listen to what you just said. You’re looking around to take your cues from society to decide how you should react. Now, let’s put that in an analogy for people living with mental illness, maybe the guy that you meet with bipolar disorder, you don’t have a problem with it until all of your friends and family say, whoa hoo hoo hoo hoo. You should
Lisa: Oh.
Gabe: Not date him. He’s mentally ill. So you look around to society to decide how to react. And suddenly the guy with bipolar disorder can’t have friends or get a job or have a shot because everybody is sharing in the same nucleus of misinformation. You had an opportunity to laugh at a joke that I know you find funny. I had an opportunity to laugh at a joke that I know that I found funny. And we opted to skip it because we weren’t sure how our listeners would react.
Lisa: Well,
Gabe: Wow. We’re breaking down walls.
Lisa: Well, OK, but that’s not exactly a fair comparison, because we do have a vested interest in how our listeners react. It’s not like we were at a comedy club with a bunch of people and who cares what they think of us. We care very much about what the people listening are thinking. So I don’t think that’s exactly a fair analogy. So let’s use that analogy, though, where. Yeah, that’s a good point. If it was just about a bunch of strangers or about the larger society and not people who, you know, control the purse strings, we would in fact be saying, yeah. You’re right. That is part of the culture of discrimination. I had not thought of it that way. Good point.
Gabe: Obviously, we’ve talked about a lot. I like this type of humor because if it wasn’t for this type of humor, I don’t know that how I would have gotten through. And I do embrace humor is healthy. I do think that sometimes joking about it breaks down barriers. It’s like the analogy that I told about my dad. There are people who are horrified to hear this story. I’m sure that some of them are listening right now. But it’s my dad. And we talk to each other that way. He would say the same thing to me if I was in that situation. And we’d laugh together and we’d cry together and we’d be a family together. And maybe you shouldn’t walk up to a stranger and threaten to beat them up. I kind of agree with that. But.
Lisa: Well, of course, you agree with that. Everything is in context.
Gabe: And there. There is my big point, I think that sometimes people miss the context of some of Frank’s jokes or some of the jokes that I tell as a speaker. Where people say, you know, that’s not something that you should joke about. But the context is education. The context is bringing it out of the shadows and making it something that we can point at, laugh at, discuss and will not be afraid of. If we’re paying attention to the context, I think a guy
Lisa: Well, but.
Gabe: Like Frank is perfectly fine. If we pay attention to the words, m aybe Frank has gone too far. I am on the all discussion is good discussion bandwagon.
Lisa: Ok, but that same thing could be said about any controversial comedian or any controversial comedy subject. It’s all about the context. We would never have any of this criticism of someone’s material ever if they knew for sure the people in the audience would be okay with it. You know, it’s all about deciding if this particular group of people is comfortable with this humor or not. And I can see I know what it is you’re going to say. You’re going to say that if they’re not comfortable with it, we need to make them comfortable with it. And one of the ways we do that is exposure.
Gabe: I think that is a good point, but I wasn’t going to say that at all. What I was going to say is that people have a right to discuss their lives and their trauma and their mental illness in any way they want. And while you may not agree with Frank or even find Frank funny or like Frank or I don’t know why I’m shitting all over Frank, all of a sudden. We love him. We had him on our show. But I think the solution here is to understand that Frank is describing his journey in the way that he is comfortable with. And if you don’t like it, don’t listen. What I worry about is when people say, listen, you have a mental illness, but you can only talk about your mental illness this way. You can only describe your experience in this manner. You can only describe your trauma using these words. I think that really creates a system where people can’t define their own recovery and their own existence. And people can’t be who they want. Yeah, I’m well aware of controversial comedians that that say all kinds of horrific things, but they’re saying them about other people. They’re not saying them about their selves. 
Lisa: Well, yeah. That’s why.
Gabe: One of the things that I love about Frank is that Frank discusses his own life. And yeah, some people don’t like the way that he does it. But I gotta tell you, I’ve been in his audience. The majority of the people love it. It just seems like the people who don’t like it are really loud.
Lisa: Well, you would prefer they just weren’t there at all. Everyone has kind of the inalienable right to define their own narrative, to discuss their own thing the way they want to, to put it into the words they choose. And I want to just go with that. I want to just be done there and just stop. Full stop. Done. But then I start thinking well, but, how far does that go? I get that you have mental illness and therefore you kind of have the permission slip to talk about this. But there is a non-zero point where I would say, OK, stop it.
Gabe: Well, but I think that what you’re discussing is that you don’t want Frank to tell you what to do with your life. And that’s the great thing about Frank King. His comedy is very personal. He only talks about his experiences, his life. I’ve never seen Frank say I am a person living with depression. And here’s what every single person with depression needs to do. I don’t know what the joke at the end of that would be, but yeah, yeah, I’d show right up and I’d be like, dude, you’re not the elected spokesperson for people with depression. 
Lisa: But that’s why people would critique it, because there’s a finite number of spokespeople. There are so few voices out there representing us that when one of them says the following thing, that is extra damaging. It’s not like there’s a thousand of these people out there. There’s only a handful. So I think many people feel like you need to tightly control that narrative. If they feel that narrative is incorrect or damaging and other people see that. And he has that cover of, hey, he’s mentally ill. You can’t criticize the way he talks about it, because, after all, it’s his own experience. But they feel that that is damaging to the overall movement. So I don’t know where to go with that. 
Gabe: Well, but people can critique it and say that isn’t their experience, but it is, in fact, Frank’s.
Lisa: OK.
Gabe: I can tell you that being a mental health speaker, I’m not a mental health comedian. I’m a mental health speaker and I don’t even have the mental health speaker dot com. So I don’t know.
Lisa: Well, that was a clear oversight.
Gabe: Yeah, I don’t know where that leaves me. But I can tell you, being a mental health speaker, I love it when people tell me I’m wrong. I love it when I get emails where people tell me that I missed the mark. I love it when people are discussing the things that I say. Being a podcaster  or I feel the same way. Respectful emails where people are like, Gabe, I listened to your whole podcast. I listened to your point of view and you are completely wrong. Mental Health Month is in fact, incredible. You shouldn’t have insulted in any way. It is only goodness. I listened to everything that you say. I completely disagree with you. You, sir, are wrong. That is my favorite email ever. They listened to what I said. They considered everything that I said and they are now putting out in the world that Gabe Howard is wrong. There is nothing wrong with that. We should be very, very clear. I just want to take a moment. Frank is not doing any of these things. We’re just using him as a
Lisa: Well, yeah, because he’s the one who’s here right now.
Gabe: Yeah, he was just dumb enough to come on the show. I bet he’s rethinking that now that he’s listening to it. 
Lisa: Yeah, we’re gonna have trouble getting guests after this.
Gabe: But seriously, these discussions are powerful. Right, Lisa, I understand what you’re saying.
Lisa: Yes.
Gabe: You don’t want to be on the Gabe train because then it’s all one way or all another.
Lisa: Because where’s the line?
Gabe: I’m telling you, there isn’t a line. It would be nice if we lived in a world where this is the stuff that was appropriate. And this is the stuff that was inappropriate. That world does not exist. I feel very strongly that the best we can do is allow for respectful dialog and respectful disagreement. I think that mental health advocacy would move forward at an extraordinarily rapid rate if all the people who disagreed could get on board, find the stuff we have in common and push that forward. Because, listen, we’re never going to agree. The way that a middle aged white guy experiences bipolar disorder is j ust different than a 70 year old woman who’s been living with bipolar disorder, which is different than 20 year olds who are being diagnosed, which is different from people below the poverty line, above the poverty line.
Lisa: Yeah, we get it. It’s all different. Everyone’s different, yes.
Gabe: I just I haven’t even scratched the surface of differences yet. I know that you think that I’m just going on and on and on and on and on. But you know as well as I do that I haven’t even covered one percent of all of the differences with people bipolar disorder.
Lisa: Well, obviously not. Because all of the people with bipolar disorder represent all of the available differences in the population.
Gabe: Exactly. This applies to more than just mental health.
Lisa: Yeah, It’s a broadly applicable discussion.
Gabe: And I really wanted to remind my listeners that, you know, so often people living with mental illness feel that the bar is different for us. And it is.
Lisa: Yeah, it is.
Gabe: The bar is different for us. But, you know, sometimes the bar is exactly the same. It’s exactly the same as everybody else. People are trying to decide the best way to discuss all kinds of controversial topics, scary topics, misunderstood topics. And they’re all running into the same problems that people who are advocating on behalf of people living with mental illness are running into. It is one of the things that bind us. It’s difficult to know how to get the word out there, because as sure as I’m sitting here, you’re going to step on somebody’s toes.
Lisa: Yeah. Here, here. Gabe.
Gabe: Lisa, did you have fun?
Lisa: Yes. A real treat to have Frank with us today.
Gabe: It was really, really awesome. Now, Lisa, you have seven days to come up with a new way to start the show. If you say hi, I am Lisa, I. 
Lisa: It’s hard. I need help here, people, help me, help me. Give me some advice.
Gabe: Really? You want people to e-mail [email protected] to tell an experienced podcaster how to start her own show?
Lisa: Yes, I feel that people should definitely e-mail [email protected] to let us know what it is I should be saying.
Gabe: You heard the lady; I’m not going to argue with her. Listen up, everybody. Here’s what I need you to do. If you love the show, please give us as many stars as humanly possible. Use your words and write about how much you loved us. Words really, really help. And share us on social media. Use your words there too. Really this whole thing comes down to using positive words to share us and subscribe and to make us famous. Like, wouldn’t it be cool if we were as famous as Frank King,
Lisa: Oh.
Gabe: at mental health comedian dot com?
Lisa: I believe that’s TheMentalHealthComedian.com, Gabe. He’s just not a mental health comedian. He is the mental health comedian.
Gabe: Once again, thank you, Frank. Thanks, everybody, for listening. And we will see you next Tuesday.
Lisa: Bye. See you then.
Announcer: You’ve been listening to the Not Crazy Podcast from Psych Central. For free mental health resources and online support groups, visit PsychCentral.com. Not Crazy’s official website is PsychCentral.com/NotCrazy. To work with Gabe, go to gabehoward.com. Want to see Gabe and me in person?  Not Crazy travels well. Have us record an episode live at your next event. E-mail [email protected] for details. 
  Podcast: Joking About Suicide: Is It Ever Okay? syndicated from
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Podcast: Joking About Suicide: Is It Ever Okay?
Is it ever OK to joke about mental illness or suicide? In today’s Not Crazy podcast, Gabe and Lisa welcome Frank King, a comedian who’s turned his struggles with major depression and suicidal thinking into comedic material.
What do you think? Is joking about suicide too heavy? Or is humor a good coping mechanism? Join us for an in-depth discussion on gallows humor.
(Transcript Available Below)
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  Guest Information for ‘Frank King — Joking and Suicide’ Podcast Episode
Frank King, Suicide Prevention speaker and Trainer was a writer for The Tonight Show for 20 years.
Depression and suicide run in his family. He’s thought about killing himself more times than he can count. He’s fought a lifetime battle with Major Depressive Disorder and Chronic Suicidality, turning that long dark journey of the soul into five TEDx Talks and sharing his lifesaving insights on Mental Health Awareness with associations, corporations, and colleges.
A Motivational Public Speaker who uses his life lessons to start the conversation giving people permission to give voice to their feelings and experiences surrounding depression and suicide.
And doing it by coming out, as it were, and standing in his truth, and doing it with humor.
He believes that where there is humor there is hope, where there is laughter there is life, nobody dies laughing. The right person, at the right time, with the right information, can save a life.
 About The Not Crazy Podcast Hosts
Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and speaker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular book, Mental Illness is an Asshole and other Observations, available from Amazon; signed copies are also available directly from Gabe Howard. To learn more, please visit his website, gabehoward.com.
        Lisa is the producer of the Psych Central podcast, Not Crazy. She is the recipient of The National Alliance on Mental Illness’s “Above and Beyond” award, has worked extensively with the Ohio Peer Supporter Certification program, and is a workplace suicide prevention trainer. Lisa has battled depression her entire life and has worked alongside Gabe in mental health advocacy for over a decade. She lives in Columbus, Ohio, with her husband; enjoys international travel; and orders 12 pairs of shoes online, picks the best one, and sends the other 11 back.
    Computer Generated Transcript for “Frank King- Joking and Suicide” Episode
Editor’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thank you.
Lisa: You’re listening to Not Crazy, a psych central podcast hosted by my ex-husband, who has bipolar disorder. Together, we created the mental health podcast for people who hate mental health podcasts.
Gabe: Hey, everybody, and welcome to the Not Crazy Podcast. My name is Gabe Howard and with me, as always, is Lisa. Lisa, do you have a new beginning this week?
Lisa: Oh, you totally ruined my thing. I was gonna do hi, I’m Lisa, but like in a cute voice.
Gabe: You think using like a different inflection, but the exact same words is a new introduction for you?
Lisa: Yes, I’m going to do different inflections.
Gabe: That’s terrible.
Lisa: I’ve been thinking about it for a full seven days.
Gabe: It’s terrible. You know, I am very happy that you’re here and I’m very happy that the show is about comedy. We are going to talk about is comedy and being funny surrounding mental health issues OK? Well, we kind of think it is. But Lisa, today we have a guest.
Lisa: Yes. Our guest, Frank King, lives with major depression and suffers from suicidal ideation, and he describes himself as a warrior in his lifelong battle with mental illness. And before we get started, we are going to talk about suicide. And Frank is a comedian. So it’s going to come up pretty quick. So be prepared for that.
Gabe: And there’s your trigger warning, folks, and after we’re done talking to Frank. Lisa and I will be back to tell you our thoughts, you know, behind his back.
Lisa: And recorded, so not really behind his back. He could still listen to it.
Gabe: I’m glad you told me that, because
Lisa: You forgot?
Gabe: Yeah, yeah, that just yeah.
Lisa: Yeah.
Gabe: I often forget that people are listening
Lisa: Really?
Gabe: No. No, never.
Gabe: And we’re just going to attack him a whole bunch. We’re gonna be like, that’s offensive. That’s awful. That’s terrible. People feel this way. And would you joke about murder? The answer, of course, is that people do joke about murder. People joke about all kinds of things. But I feel like we should let Frank defend himself. Frank, welcome to the show.
Frank: Thanks, Gabe. Thanks for the warm welcome.
Lisa: Oh, thank you for being here.
Gabe: Are you glad you said yes?
Frank: Huh, do you want me to be honest or kind?
Lisa: Too soon to say.
Frank: No, I’m delighted to be here. Glad we could find a time to do this, although I haven’t got another booking till May 2021, so I got plenty of time.
Gabe: COVID has slowed us all down. Frank, you’re a mental health comedian. That’s literally how you describe yourself. Frank King, the mental health comedian. Why? Can you tell us about that?
Frank: Yeah, I told my first joke in fourth grade and the kids laughed and I told my mom I’m gonna be a comedian. She said, because education is a big deal in our family. Well, son, you are gonna go to college and get a degree. Now, after college, you can be, I don’t know a goat herder if you choose. But you, my son, are going to be a goat herder with a degree. So I went to school in Chapel Hill. I got two degrees. One in political science, one in industrial relations.
Lisa: Oh, I didn’t know that was the thing.
Frank: I didn’t either.
Gabe: Can you get a job in that or did you have to fall back on comedy?
Frank: No. UNC Chapel Hill has a fabulous placements center. I interviewed literally 77 times. No second interviews, no job offers. So they’re looking at me thinking this guy’s a clown. And they were correct. So most people give up a good job to do comedy. But I was functionally unemployable. So my girlfriend, high school girlfriend and college, her father worked for an insurance company and he wrangled me a job as a marketing rep of an insurance company in Raleigh. And then we moved to San Diego. I should have never married my first wife. I knew going down the aisle it was not going to work. I just didn’t have the testicular fortitude to back out. We had nothing in common, essentially. And you know what they say, opposites attract. She was pregnant. I wasn’t. So, we got married and, in La Jolla, California, which is a suburb of San Diego, although La Jolla would tell you that San Diego is actually a suburb of La Jolla, the Comedy Store had a branch there, the world famous Comedy Store on Sunset.
Gabe: Yeah. Very cool.
Frank: And so I
Lisa: Yeah, I watched it when I was a kid.
Frank: And so I did what I tell comedians or want to be comedians to do. Go and sit through open mic night twice. See how bad everybody is, 75% of them. And that will give you the courage. I went down, sat through two nights of it and sure enough, 75, 80 percent were horrible. And I’m thinking I’m that funny just walking around. And so the third night I went, I got up. I did my five minutes. It was all about moving from North Carolina to California because back then that was quite a bit of culture shock. The joke I remember is I’d never seen guacamole. I’ve never actually seen an avocado growing up in North Carolina. So I pick up a chip and I’m headed for the bowl and I stop. I’m hovering over the bowl, staring at the guacamole. You know what guacamole looks like. The hostess comes running over. Frank, I’ll bet you don’t know what that is. You’re not from California. That is what we call guacamole. And it’s good. And I said, yes, I bet it was good the first time somebody ate it. And in my head that night, it’s only happened a couple of times in my life. I had the thought unbidden. I’m home on stage
Lisa: Aww.
Frank: There. And then my second thought was I would do this for a living. I have no idea how because I had no idea how difficult it is to make a living doing standup comedy. Had I known, I probably would not have tried.
Gabe: Frank, I love that story and that, of course, answers the second part, how you became a comedian, but why mental health? Why a mental health comedian?
Frank: Well, we’ll get there.
Gabe: Get there faster, Frank.
Lisa: Don’t, don’t.
Gabe: That’s what I’m telling you.
Frank: I see, okay.
Lisa: Don’t, Gabe. It’s just like with you, if you try to make him go faster, he’ll go slower. Just think Zen.
Frank: Yeah,
Lisa: Be chill.
Frank: Yeah.
Lisa: See all these years, that’s why I let you talk, because otherwise it takes longer.
Gabe: That’s so sweet.
Frank: I did amateur night for about a year, and then I won a contest in San Diego. Said to my girlfriend, now my wife of 32 years.
Lisa: Oh.
Frank: Look, I’m going on the road to do standup comedy. I had 10 weeks booked, which I thought was forever. You want to come along? And she said inexplicably, yes. So we put everything into storage that we couldn’t fit into my tiny little Dodge Colt.
Gabe: Wow.
Frank: No air conditioning. And we hit the road for 2,629 nights in a row. Nonstop, beer bar, pool hall, honky tonk, comedy club. And she just came along for the ride. We had no home, no domicile. No, we were, you know.
Gabe: Now, generally speaking, when people are homeless, I think maybe they’re not so good at what they’re doing. But?
Lisa: It’s apparently a different type of industry.
Frank: And it was a great time of our lives. I mean, back then they put you up in a comedy condo, three bedrooms. So I worked with and spent time, weeks at a time in condos with Dennis Miller and Jeff Foxworthy and Ron White, Ellen DeGeneres, Rosie O’Donnell and Dana Carvey and Adam Sandler. Back when they were just comics. So we rode that wave for about seven years. And then I got a job in radio in Raleigh, North Carolina, my old hometown, and I took a number one morning show. I drove it to number six in 18 months. A friend of mine said you didn’t just drive it into the ground. You drove it into Middle Earth. So I did.
Lisa: Well, but in absolute value, that’s a, that’s a big up.
Gabe: I mean, six is a bigger number than one, congratulations.
Lisa: There you go. Yeah.
Frank: So then my boss at the time, we’re still friends, said to me, well, you go back on the road doing stand up. Well, standup was going away. More clubs are closing than opening. So I’ve always been very clean. Which cost me in the one nighter beer bar situations. But join the National Speaker Association, got to the rubber chicken circuit and rode that and made good money just doing HR friendly corporate clean comedy until 2007 and a half basically. And then the market, you know, the speaking market dropped out 80% practically overnight. And my wife and I lost everything we worked for for twenty five years in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy. And that’s when I found out what the barrel of my gun tastes like. Spoiler alert. I didn’t pull the trigger. I tell that story and a friend of mine came up afterwards, who never heard me say that before. And he goes, Hey, man, how come you didn’t pull the trigger? I go, Hey, man, could you try to sound a little less disappointed? So. And if you want to know why I didn’t pull the trigger, it’s in my first TED talk.
Gabe: I mean, sincerely, we. This is the crux of the show, right? That’s like really heavy. Like when you said it, I was like, oh, my God, what can I do to save, Frank? You already told me that it was.
Lisa: Yeah, I was also thinking whoa whoa, did not see that coming. All right.
Gabe: Right. But you said it funny. I mean, there’s no other way to put it. That was a joke about something really, really serious. And I imagine that there’s a shock value there. There’s a like that was unexpected.
Frank: Yeah, and it is there on purpose.
Gabe: Do you get shit for that? I mean, I can already read the letters. I was trying to listen to your podcast. We were all having a good time. And then Frank made a joke about suicide that I wasn’t expecting. How dare you? And on one hand, I want to agree with them, like, oh, like that would be unexpected. But on the other hand, I appreciate humor. I embrace humor. It is healthy. How do you answer the people that tell you this?
Lisa: Well, first, I want to hear how he decided to talk about this, because this friend comes up to him and he tells the story. Is that because that friend thought it was hilarious and you were like, oh, this is definitely where the money is? I’m gonna go this direction. I mean, how did that happen?
Frank: Well, I had a mental health act at that point when he actually said that. So I just, as many comics do, 
Lisa: Ok.
Frank: Added to that because everybody laughed. The actual original line was bankruptcy, lost everything. And I had an itch on the roof of my mouth I could only scratch with the front side on my nickel plated .38, which people found a little graphic. So I,
Gabe: Yeah.
Lisa: Well.
Frank: I came up with the what the barrel of my gun tastes like. It’s faster. And what I do is I do it on purpose for two reasons. One, anybody in the audience who has a mental illness who hears me say, I can tell you what the barrel of my gun tastes like, you can see them lean forward because all of a  sudden, they realize that I get it. And it shocks the neuro typical people, which is what I’m after, into paying better attention, because that’s why I’m there, is to let the mentally ill people know that they’re not alone and help the neurotypical people decode how someone can be so depressed that they would take their own life. And so, but then again, you notice I talk about taste of the barrel of my gun and then I go, spoiler alert, didn’t pull the trigger. So you get the shock and then you get the joke, although it only gets a nervous laugh, that line, you know. Huh. And then the big payoff is friend of mine came up. Why didn’t you pull the trigger? Could you. Yeah. So it is constructed that way on purpose. The shock value. And then the first small laugh. Should we be laughing at the fact you put a gun in his mouth? And then the big laugh with the guy who came up afterwards and said, you know, and I said try to sound a little less disappointed.
Frank: So but yeah, it’s, um, except for the fact that I was given some grief about the original line, about the itch on the roof of my mouth. Nobody’s ever complained about the. I don’t know whether they I’ve shocked him into apoplexy. They can’t. I’d like to say something, but I can’t. And there’s a comedy principle there in that if you give them something very serious like the gun in the mouth and you follow it with something amusing, then they’re much more ready and able to handle the next piece of serious information that you give them, regardless of what it is. So there’s a rhythm to and then the reason, you know, everything is where it is in that bit and in the in my speech. What happened was I would do standup comedy and I’d always wanted to make a living and a difference because when I went to work in insurance, I saw all the old school motivational guys, Zig Ziglar and like that. I thought, man, I could do that if I just had something to teach somebody. Well, when I came so close, and it runs in my family. My grandmother died by suicide.
Frank: My mother found her. My great aunt died by suicide. My mother and I found her. I was four years old, I screamed for days. I thought, I think I can maybe talk about it. And then I bought a book by a woman named Judy Carter called The Message of You: Turning Your Life into a Money Making Speaking Career. And I went into it thinking, I’ve got nothing. And Judy walks you through finding your heart story and what you should be talking about. And about halfway through, I thought I do have something to talk about. So I use Judy’s book to design my first TED talk. I used a book called Talk Like TED to refine it. And then I delivered it and I came out to the world at 52 as somebody who’s depressed and suicidal. My wife didn’t know my family, my friends, no one knew. Now to Gabe’s point, the only thing I’ve ever gotten grief for about that TEDx talk was that I didn’t know that the preferred language around suicide was die by suicide, completed a suicide, in that I said committed suicide. And it actually cost me a gig. They saw that, and I said, well, look at the next three.
Gabe: Yeah.
Frank: But they didn’t want to hire me because I used the term committed suicide.
Gabe: We talk about this a lot. Everywhere I go. I used to be the host of a podcast called A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast and all of our mail. OK. I should back off that a little. Not all of our mail but, but probably 75% of our mail, was your language is offensive. It should be called a person living with bipolar, a person living with schizophrenia and a portable digital file that you can listen to at your leisure. And I thought that’s just so cumbersome. But what really struck me about this language debate is, for the record, I agree that we should say completed suicide or attempted suicide. I don’t like the term commit because it makes it sound. I agree with that change. But so what? You probably agree with the thought behind it as well. And you just didn’t know at the time. We’re not educating people if we start, you know, firing people every time they make a mistake. I mean, just heaven forbid.
Frank: Well, here’s the deal. I said there is no bigger commitment than blowing your brains out. Two, there’s an old joke about breakfast, bacon and eggs. The chicken is involved. The pig was committed. Still didn’t get the gig. But I felt better.
Gabe: I understand. Look, I’m not saying that there’s not an iota of truth in the way we talk to each other and the way that we speak to one another and the words that we choose to use. It’s one of the reasons that you’re probably a comedian because, you know, that language can be manipulated in a way that makes people pay closer attention. 
Frank: Oh, yeah.
Gabe: Or a way that makes people laugh or that, you know, ruffles people’s feathers. We’re all aware of this. But I still have to point out time and time again, if we put as much effort into getting people with serious mental illness help as we do in deciding how to discuss people with serious mental illness, I think the world would be a better place. I had to take a lot of shit about that, Frank.
Frank: Yeah. My radio co-host, had an expression, is that the hill you want to die on? And no, that’s not the hill I want to die. That’s not where I want to spend my effort. I’ll use proper language. But I’m not you know, right before I came on with you guys, I was on a dental podcast because dentists have a high rate and several have died recently, high profile. And the gentleman I was talking to said committed suicide. And I just let it go. I wasn’t going to school him. I mean, if I saw him later, I’d say, hey, man, just a note, you know, just for your own edification and to avoid trouble in the future. And I have done that with other people. You know, people say something. I said, look, you know, when you figure somebody has mental illness, you need to avoid this or that. It is not always language so much as it is. You know, I choose joy.
Gabe: Yeah.
Frank: Ok, well, one of the guys who’s involved in our book is very much a positive motivational speaker sort of fellow. And he thinks, he said something about the state of mind, that positive state of mind and choosing positive thoughts is the antidote to depression. And I said, you have to be very careful about that because there are those of us who are organically predisposed. And I am the most positive person who’s suicidal you’ll probably ever meet. I have a great attitude. You know, I have chronic suicidal ideation so I could blow my brains out tomorrow. But, you know, it’s not a matter of attitude.
Lisa: Positive thinking only takes you so far.
Frank: Yeah, it’s like saying to a parent of a child who has a problem depression and thoughts of suicide to hire a coach. A life coach. It’s like, no. And the pushback I get the most on, Gabe, is somebody will confront me. How can you joke about mental illness and suicide?
Gabe: Yeah.
Frank: An overarching question, an in the macro question. How can you joke about depression and thoughts of suicide? I say, so here’s the deal. In comedy, maybe you know this, you can joke about any group to which you belong.
Lisa: Right.
Gabe: Exactly. Yes. Yes. I always hate it when people tell me how to talk about myself
Frank: Yeah.
Gabe: Or when people tell me how to react to my own trauma or my own experiences, like you can’t talk about your life that way. What I
Frank: What?
Gabe: I just. Listen, having mental illness. I live with bipolar disorder. And it is rough and it is tough. And society is constantly on top of me telling me what to do, how to behave, how to act. You know, this treatment is good. This treatment is bad. Anti psychiatry, pro psychiatry, med model. Just everywhere, just like everybody has an opinion about my life. And then people start having opinions of how I’m supposed to think and discuss my life. It’s bad enough you all have opinions on everything else I do. But now you’re trying to control how I think about my own experiences and explain them to others. Now, now I want to fight.
Lisa: Well, they think they’re helping.
Gabe: I know they think they’re helping, but they’re not.
Frank: The name your previous podcast was something of a bipolar? It was a?
Gabe: A bipolar schizophrenic and a podcast.
Frank: Yes, I thought it was so three guys walking into a bar.
Gabe: Yeah, we stole it from three guys in a pizza place
Frank: Yeah. Exactly.
Lisa: Well, the name of this one is Not Crazy, so if the question at the beginning of the episode is, is it OK to joke about mental illness? I think we’ve already answered it with the title.
Frank: Yes.
Gabe: Yeah, we get pushback on the title. People suck.
Lisa: I know.
Frank: So do I. I get. I just got off the podcast with the dentists, and I said, look, before I leave, let me give you my phone number, my cell phone number, and I give it to him twice, and I say put it in the show notes. And here’s the deal. The reason I do that, I do it every keynote that I do. I give my cell phone number.
Lisa: Really? 
Frank: Yep.
Lisa: Ok.
Frank: I say, look, if you’re suicidal, call the suicide prevention lifeline or text HELP to 741741. If you’re just having a really bad day, call a crazy person like me. Because we’re not going to judge. We’re just going to listen.
Gabe: Yeah.
Frank: As a friend of mine says, co-sign on your B.S. and I’ve gotten pushback on you shouldn’t use word crazy. So, here’s the thing. I’m taking it back.
Gabe: Yes.
Frank: As gay people took back the term queer and made it not a pejorative. I’m taking crazy back because I own it. I’ve paid for it. It’s my word if I want to use it. And so, yeah, that gets my dander up. It’s, you know.
Gabe: Here, here’s the thing about comedy that I love so much. And I agree with you and Lisa and I talk about this all the time, for some reason, we’re so hung up on words that we’re not at all hung up on context.
Frank: No.
Gabe: Do you know how many horrible things have happened to me with the right words being used? Mr. Howard, I’m sorry. I’m going to have to fire you from your job because you’re a person living with mental illness
Lisa: But we’ve talked about why that is.
Gabe: Why?
Lisa: Because it’s easier. Do you know how much trouble and effort it would be to end homelessness or provide an adequate mental health safety net or suicide prevention programs? Those are hard and they’re expensive. Telling people to start talking in a different way is much, much easier and free.
Gabe: And you can do it on Facebook.
Lisa: Yeah, that helps, too. You don’t have to leave your house.
Frank: And I get together once a month, sometimes more, on a Monday with my crazy comedy klatch, anywhere from two to six of us who are all crazy. All have a mental illness of one stripe or another. And we get together for an hour. We take off our game face and we are just ourselves and say things that would. One morning somebody comes and goes, you know, a guy jumped off a six story building downtown. I go, six stories? Not a chance in hell. You could survive six stories. Just leave you a quadriplegic. I’m going at least 10.
Lisa: Good thinking.
Frank: And there’s somebody at the table behind me is like, did you just? I go, it’s a math problem. You know, you just have to reach terminal velocity. Give me a break. But that’s how you know. Somebody said something about suicide. And I said, look, if you going to die by suicide, don’t jump off a bridge and land on some poor civilian’s car and ruin their lives forever. Get a bomb vest, find some jackass and wrap your arms around him and then pull the trigger. Do, you know, make the world a better place.
Lisa: That’s actually super good advice.
Frank: Yeah.
Gabe: That is terrible advice and Not Crazy, does not does not condone murder in any way.
Lisa: I just can’t believe. I have spent a lot of time thinking about suicide. I have never thought of that.
Gabe: Listen, what we’re talking about is called gallows humor, it’s dark humor. Now, I am a big fan of it. In my darkest moments, the things that, honest to God, saved my life were the people that looked at me and told me jokes like we just talked about here. But not everybody likes them and not everybody understands them.
Frank: No.
Gabe: I mean, it doesn’t matter if we’re talking about mental illness, mental health or. You know, my family. OK, here’s what this reminds me of. My dad got in a horrible accident. I mean, he had to be life flighted like it was really serious. We got a call. We had to get in the car. We had to drive 12 hours because we live in Ohio. He lives in Tennessee. And we go there. And my dad is 70 years old and he’s listen, he’s beat to shit. And the nurse needed him to sign a consent form. And, of course, you know, my dad, he’s on painkillers. He’s scared. He’s in the hospital. Did I mention he was, you know, like, really physically messed up from the accident? And he’s giving the nurse trouble. He’s like, I don’t want to. I don’t want to. I don’t want to. And I said, you know, Dad, you need to sign that. And he goes, I don’t want to.
Gabe: And I looked my dad in the eyes and I said, if you don’t sign that, I’m going to beat you up. And there was this awkward moment of silence for like a second. And my dad just starts laughing. He just starts cracking up. He’s laughing so hard that he’s like, don’t. Don’t make me laugh. It hurts. It hurts. And he grabs the clipboard and he signs it. Now, I’ve told that story, I don’t know, a thousand times and about 50% of the time people gasp like, oh, my God, this sounds like a really serious emergency. Your dad had to be life flighted. Why would you say that to him? What kind of a horrible, awful son are you? Look, I know my dad. This is how we talk to each other. It lightens the mood. My dad thought it was funny. And listen, we didn’t have a lot to laugh at, so we had to laugh at the only thing that was in the room, which was the fact that my dad got in an accident that almost killed him and had to be life flighted and his son had to drive 12 hours to see him. I think it’s the same way with mental illness. I think that’s what we need to laugh at. I think if we’re not laughing, we’re crying.
Lisa: Humor is a way to deal with dark topics that are uncomfortable, it’s a way to make you feel better about things that are sucky.
Gabe: But not everybody believes that. How do you counterbalance that? Because in any room, especially your rooms, Frank, they’re big rooms, there’s five hundred a thousand people in those rooms. And better than average odds are, there’s a couple of hundred people that think that you’re a jackass that’s making fun of mentally ill people and you’re doing a great disservice.
Frank: Yeah, well, you know, that’s the difference between being a speaker and a comedian. As a comedian, I’m very careful. You’ve got to know your audience.
Lisa: Well, that’s really the key. Knowing your audience. 
Frank: Yeah.
Lisa: It eliminates this entire discussion.
Gabe: Yeah, but you’re hired at corporate events. The audience doesn’t choose themselves. This makes it a little more difficult. Right, Frank? I mean, if you’re.
Lisa: Well, no, because he doesn’t actually need to please the audience, he just needs to please the people who hired him.
Gabe: Now, come on, that that’s.
Lisa: Those two things will probably usually go together, but not always.
Gabe: We’re not playing lawyer ball here, Lisa.
Lisa: I’m just saying.
Frank: Yeah, the I’ve got a friend is a funeral director, mortician, so is his dad, and they have the darkest sense of humor. I go into a motivational speech for the Selected Independent Funeral Homes. They call me up and they said.
Lisa: This is a good joke. I can tell. It’s going to be a good, good setup.
Gabe: Well, this isn’t a joke, it’s a story, right?
Frank: True story.
Gabe: It’s a true story.
Lisa: It’s going to be funny in the end, though, I can tell.
Gabe: Everything Frank says is funny.
Frank: A month ahead of time they call me. What do you call your motivational speech for morticians? And I was kidding. I said I call it Thinking Inside the Box. And they liked it so much. I had to have my first slide is, you know, Thinking Inside the Box. The son and father are hysterical. And then his dad is on a ship. I’m doing 10 days on a 115 day world cruise. And I don’t know if you guys know this, but the longer the cruise, the older the passengers.
Gabe: Really?
Lisa: Well, that makes sense. They have the time.
Gabe: I guess. Yeah, they don’t have jobs. Yeah, that makes sense.
Frank: Yeah. One hundred fifteen days, we’re talking old people and their parents. Every night, same thing for dessert: oxygen. Yeah. Did a show in an 800 seat theater, it was packed. I call my wife, honey, there was so much white hair in that theater, it looked like a Q-tip convention. So in my act I have this story about how every industry has a favorite joke. And I tell one about the grain industry. There’s one about my favorite actually is ophthalmologists and optometrists. Their favorite joke is this is my impression of an ophthalmologist or an optometrist making love. How’s that? How about now? Better or worse? One or two? Yeah. And I said, guys like if you’ve never worn glasses, ask somebody because that’s funny.
Lisa: Well, yeah, I was going to say only people who wear glasses are gonna get that.
Frank: Well, then there’s a mortician joke and the mortician joke is what’s the most difficult thing about being a mortician? And it’s trying to look sad at a $35,000 funeral. So I tell the joke
Lisa: That’s not a joke, though. That’s real.
Frank: It’s true, but I tell the joke and I say
Gabe: Well, but it is funny. 
Frank: It is funny, and the audience laughs. And I say is anybody here in the audience, a mortician, retired or active duty? And a guy on the balcony raise his hand. I go, what’s a mortician doing on a 115 day world cruise? He stands up, waves his arm across a crowd and goes inventory. And it kills. 
Gabe: Oh.
Frank: And I’ve been, and it’s been killing ever since. And it may be, Gabe, because he delivers the punch line.
Lisa: It’s entirely because he delivers it.
Frank: Yeah, exactly.
Lisa: Otherwise, it’s not funny. Otherwise, it’s just mean.
Frank: Yes, comedy, there’s an art and a science. Comedians should always be shooting up, not down.
Lisa: Exactly. Yes.
Frank: So if I was neurotypical, I couldn’t make any of the jokes I make about depression and suicide because I’d be shooting down.
Gabe: Right. You’d be making fun of people below you on that. Yeah.
Lisa: Yeah, making fun of a oppressed group is not funny. It’s just piling on to the problems that are already there.
Frank: It’s like, women should always win in a joke. And that’s why men shouldn’t make fun of, or minorities. It’s difficult being a white comedian. Six foot tall, brown haired white guy because I.
Lisa: Yeah, yeah, you poor dear.
Gabe: We’re sorry, Frank. At least God gave you a mental illness so you had something to talk about.
Frank: Yeah, I’m well aware of being born a white male, heterosexual Protestant in the US gives you a huge advantage. But frankly, if you have born that way in a relatively stable family and you haven’t succeeded at something, you’re doing it wrong.
Lisa: Yeah.
Gabe: Yeah.
Frank: Yeah, so, if you are gay or black or Mexican, you can joke about all those. Comedy is tragedy plus time or difficulty plus time. So, you know, because minorities have more difficulty. If you’re a minority, you can joke about all minorities. If you’re a white guy, not so much. So there are comedy rules and regulations that bleed over into my speaking. I try to teach my speaking coaching students this. There should not be a word in there that doesn’t serve a purpose, including moving the narrative forward. I mean, you got to be very careful how you word things, because in radio, they say it’s not what you said. It’s not what they heard. It’s what they thought they heard. And nowadays it’s all filtered, more so, I think, than in the past because of the division. You know, the right and the left and the P.C. and the preferred pronouns. And I was on campus, Gabe, at University of Montana, Billings, two nice young men drive me around to radio stations. And one of them said, you know, Frank, comics have a tough time on campus nowadays because people get offended. Do you worry about people getting offended? I said, well, if I was a comedian, I’d be worried. However, I’m here on campus to save lives. So my philosophy is. And then there’s an F and an ’em. F ’em.
Lisa: Hmm.
Frank: I don’t care whose toes I step on if it means I’m saving people.
Gabe: Exactly. It’s always to your point about everybody being offended. If people are offended, I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. And again, I want to be very, very clear. There are offensive statements
Frank: Oh, yeah.
Gabe: That go too far. But if people are sitting around discussing what you said and they’re passionate about what you said and they disagree passionately with what you said, they’re applying their critical thinking skills to what you said and determining if they like it or dislike it, agree with it, don’t agree with it. And I think that there’s power in that. If after I leave a whole bunch of people get together and discuss everything that I said, I think that a lot more people will be helped than if everybody’s like, well, he didn’t do anything. I mean, literally just it sucks to not be remembered. Don’t get me wrong. I want to be remembered for good things, Frank.
Frank: Yeah.
Gabe: But I want to be remembered.
Lisa: Well, but it’s interesting what you said there, that there are some things that go too far. But isn’t that your base premise, that depending on your audience, there’s not? That there is, in fact, nothing that goes too far?
Frank: Well, there’s too soon.
Lisa: Ok, too soon.
Frank: Yeah.
Lisa: All right. Not exactly the same.
Frank: But yeah, I think Gabe’s right. I think if you leave them talking and I have no problem with someone, who comes up afterwards and says to me, look, I have a problem with blank. And so we talk about it. Well, here’s my philosophy. Here’s why I said that. Here’s why I chose those words. Now tell me why you find that? What do you find offensive about that? Because I know I can learn things too. I mean it’s.
Lisa: Has that happened? Can you think of any? I mean, one of these discussions has perhaps led to you changing up a joke with or rethinking something or gaining new info?
Frank: Back in the day during the AIDS crisis, back in the Reagan years, a lot of comics, male, heterosexual, made jokes about AIDS because it was the gay plague. Back then, anyway. When it became affecting heterosexuals, it wasn’t quite as funny, but I told a joke in the punchline involved AIDS and a friend of mine took me aside. He goes, Look, I know you don’t have a mean bone in your body, but I don’t think you understand how devastating this epidemic is among groups and communities. And so, I think if you knew or if I can impress upon you how wrong that joke is, that you wouldn’t do it. And I dropped it immediately from my act once he explained why it was so wrong. So it has happened. It doesn’t happen a lot. And I’m very careful about, you know, getting there.
Lisa: Clearly, you’ve thought it through or you would be using the joke in the first place.
Frank: Yes. Yeah. So I am open to criticism and changing things. Like with committed suicide, I said, OK, that’s the preferred language. Or live with bipolar. That’s a preferred language that’s less offensive to some people, you know. What does it cost me to change it?
Lisa: That’s an interesting point. Yeah, that’s a good point, what does it cost you?
Frank: Yeah,
Lisa: You to change it?
Frank: But I’m with Gabe, I don’t think that should be our focus.
Lisa: Right. Right.
Frank: And, Lisa. I’m with you on this. That’s easy to do. Solving a homeless problem or much more difficult.
Gabe: Right. That’s where I am.
Lisa: Do you feel that some of the criticism you got is, you know, when I see people who are using incorrect terms, et cetera, that you feel like, OK, they don’t know any better, this is your chance to educate. This is your chance to inform. Do you feel that the thinking was, hey, if you’re going to broach the topic, you should already be at that level? Like, is that part of the criticism that people feel like you, of all people, should know better?
Frank: Yeah, I would say so,
Lisa: Would you not get that same amount of criticism if you yourself did not have a mental illness?
Frank: Yeah, exactly. And I have, as Gabe does I’m sure, that deep understanding of the. I don’t know, Gabe, if you do this, but I spend a lot of time by myself in self reflection inside my own head and.
Gabe: Of course I do. Constantly.
Lisa: That’s mental illness.
Frank: Yeah,
Gabe: That’s pretty much the only place I live.
Lisa: Yeah.
Frank: Well, I’m driving one day and I thought to myself, I’m not going to use the term battle depression anymore because battle implies I can win. I cannot win. I can tie. Uneasy truce like North and South Korea. I can lose. Kill myself, but I cannot win. And I’ve had arguments with people, no you can be cured. No. No. For me, there is no cure.
Lisa: Right. Only treatment.
Frank: I live with it. I take sort of an aikido approach. Aikido is a martial art where you blend with your person coming at you rather than go up against their energy, you blend with the energy, take their balance. Because depression is a great power and energy. And so rather than bump up against it, I try to blend with it and move forward with it. You use that energy to continue to move forward. It’s difficult, but that mindset of rather than, you know, battling it.
Lisa:  We’ll be right back after these messages.
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Lisa: And we’re back talking about whether or not it is OK to joke about mental illness with comedian, Frank King. Frank, I have been wondering, after watching some of your acts, where does your comedy come from?
Frank: I believe my comedy timing, imagination is simply the flip side of my major depressive disorder and chronic suicidal ideation. I taught a class called Stand Up for Mental Health. You have to have a diagnosis to get in, a diagnosis to teach it. I got to tell you, they were the best students I ever had. Okay, here’s a dark one. These are jokes. This is the way it came out of her head. Most comics got a whole page, and they have to like redact two thirds of it. She goes I went to see my psychiatrist. I go, Camille, what did the psychiatrist say? Well, he asked me if I was depressed? I said yes. He asked if I had any thoughts of suicide? Yes. He said, do you have a plan? I said, I have five plans. Five plans? She goes, Yeah. You want to hear them all or just the ones that involve you? It’s dark, but there’s not a word in that that doesn’t move the narrative forward. Here’s one. Tosh. She said, My boyfriend said he wanted to break up with me. I said, well, why did he want to do that, Tosh? She goes, because he wants to see other people. I said, What did you say? I said, I’m bipolar. Give me a minute. Just that’s the way it came out of her head. And here’s a deal, I can teach you to write standup comedy.
Frank: I could teach you perform standup comedy. What I cannot teach you to do is process. So if somebody said, Frank, one pill one time, never be depressed again, never another suicidal thought. The only side effect is you’re not going to process as a comedian. Then keep the pill, I’ll live with the downside to hang onto the upside. That is where my comedy comes from. And heckler lines, people go, how did you think up? I’m on the bus. I was in Cambodia. We were on busses to go to the airport to catch a plane to come home. And the woman in front of me, an older woman on a cruise. Go figure. I was doing a podcast from my phone in the seat behind her and she goes, hang up the phone. I go, it’s not a phone call, it’s a podcast, I’m working. Hang up, eh. So I went back another row, kept my voice down. Well, it didn’t please her at all. It didn’t mollify her. So we’re getting ready to get off the bus. We all stand up. I’m several steps behind as she turns. She goes “drop dead.” And where this came from, I can’t tell you. I said, given your age, I’m guessing you’re going first. People say, well, how do you think that up? I didn’t think that up. The first time she heard it was first time I heard. I have no idea. But that’s my, that’s. You don’t have to be mentally ill to write comedy or perform comedy. But it don’t hurt.
Gabe: I always hear these jokes where people say, did you have a good childhood or are you funny? You know, I’ve read a lot of books that say, you know, some of the best comedy comes from traumatic experience.
Frank: Yeah, yeah.
Lisa: Absolutely.
Gabe: And I. Mental illness is a traumatic experience. And I’m not speaking for all the listeners and I’m obviously not speaking for Lisa and Frank, but for me, the humor is all I have some days. If I can’t laugh at it, I’m going to cry. And that’s why these inappropriate and I’m making the, you know, I wish it was a video podcast
Frank: Air quotes.
Gabe: So people could see how often I can make air quotes. If it wasn’t for the humor that I can find in this, it would be nothing but darkness. And that’s the way I see it.
Frank: One last example, I had a heart attack, I was in the woods half mile up a logging trail with the dogs, I had T-mobile, so I didn’t have cell service. And that never fails to get a laugh and.
Lisa: I used to have T-Mobile, yeah.
Frank: Oh, God.
Gabe: Yeah, it sucked.
Frank: Yes. Sucks out loud. Anyway, I got back to the car. Back to the house, yelled at my wife. I’m having a heart attack, dial 911. I heard she came out, got me in an ambulance. I’m at the hospital. Here’s the nice thing about a heart attack. No waiting. Nobody gives a shippa about HIPPA. I’m in the back. And the tragedy plus time equals comedy. But the longer you do comedy, the shorter the time. I’m doing comedy in real time.
Lisa: I could see that.
Frank: That nurse says to me, I’m in great deal of pain. I’m having a heart attack. She goes, Frank, no paperwork. But I just got one question for you. And I said, I’m married, Honey, but I love the way you think. And she’s trying not to laugh. It’s like, Gabe, if I didn’t have my comedy, what would I have? She goes, No, no, no, no. Your full name is Frank Marshall King, the third. But what do you like to be called? And I said, through the pain, Big Daddy. And to this day, when I go back to Oregon Heart & Vascular and somebody sees me from that morning, hey, Big Daddy, how’s it hanging? So, yeah, Gabe, if I didn’t have the humor. I mean, if I didn’t have that way of dealing with the pain, whether it’s a heart attack or mental illness or whatever it happens to be, it’s you know, it’s just the way we cope. 
Gabe: You know, Frank, obviously I live with bipolar disorder, but I’ve also had physical issues. I was rushed in an ambulance to the emergency room. I had a surgery that kind of didn’t turn out so well. And here I am in the emergency room and Lisa is trying desperately to find me.
Lisa: Well, the woman said to me, are you sure he’s here? I know he’s here. I followed the ambulance. He is here. And then she said something and I said, he is a six foot three redhead. He can’t be that hard to find.
Frank: Yeah.
Gabe: And the nurse said, you’re looking for Gabe?
Lisa: He’s only been here like fifteen inutes.
Frank: Well, he makes an impression.
Lisa: That actually happened. 
Gabe: I do. I make an impression.
Lisa: He’s not making that that story up. That actually happened.
Gabe: Now, here I am. The rest of that is true. And Lisa is now yelling at me because I’m so popular.
Frank: No, my ex-wife would tell you, look, Frank, he had a lot. He had a lot of faults, but I never went to a party with him where we didn’t have a good time.
Lisa: I can see that.
Gabe: Now, the reason I’m telling that story is because everybody loves that story. I tell that story all the time. People are like, oh, Gabe, it’s so good that you can keep your humor. It was scary. And that helped Lisa. And, oh, that’s so beautiful talking about it in that way. But whenever I do that for mental illness, people are like, that’s inappropriate stop. And I’m like, no, wait a minute. 
Frank: What?
Gabe: Why? What’s the. This is one of those, you know,
Lisa: Because it’s not as scary.
Gabe: Stigmatizing things. You know, making fun of me, almost dying from a surgery, going wrong and almost bleeding to death at home. People are like, yeah, he’s tough, but joking about mental illness, about bipolar disorder. And people are like I don’t know that you’re taking it seriously. And it’s a very scary illness. And I think you might be hurting other people that suffer from this. And I only point that out because we want mental illness and physical illness to be treated exactly the same. And I guarantee there’s nobody that heard your story about, you know, the big daddy story
Frank: Yeah.
Gabe: About the heart attack. That wasn’t like hell, yeah, he was. You’re a tough guy. But then I hear some of the stuff about suicidality, depression, and like, I don’t know, maybe I don’t like this. And let’s consider just, you know, you don’t have to agree with me immediately. Let’s consider the whys of that. Why do we feel that way? And I think that will allow us to move forward. Look, humor is funny. We need it. We like it. If it’s not for you, don’t listen to it. Frank’s not for everybody.
Frank: It’s a way of breaking down barriers and having a meeting of the minds. Because a laugh is something where your minds have to meet. You have to be in the same place at the same time. You know, seeing the same thing. I tell my comedy students, paint the picture, it’s gotta be very vivid. So they can be there with you. Right there with you.
Gabe: Well, that is awesome. You are awesome.
Frank: Well, thank you very much.
Lisa: Yeah, we really enjoyed it. Where can people find you?
Frank: TheMentalHealthComedian.com is my Web site. My phone number’s there and sometime in the next, I’m guessing this week, there will be an audio book version of a book that Gabe and I are in.
Gabe: Yeah, I actually I think I’m in volume two and you’re in volume one. I didn’t make the cut, but Guts, Grit & The Grind, you can find it on Amazon. It’s a collection of stories from men about their mental health issues, mental illnesses and just the whole concept, we’ve got to give a shout out to Dr. Sally, was that men just don’t talk about their mental health enough and there’s getting to be more men. But I like to joke that I got into this business because it was predominantly women.
Frank: Yes. And Sarah Gaer, whose idea it was and who teaches QPR to first responders, mostly men. She went to the bookstore to find a book on men’s mental health, couldn’t find one. Went on Amazon, couldn’t find one. So she
Gabe: Here we go.
Frank: She put it together. Yes. And if you go to my website, sometime in the next week or so, they’ll be a, put your email in, and you get a free copy of the audio book that I voiced.
Gabe: Nice. Nice. If you want to hear Frank’s voice even more, you know what to do. That would be awesome, Frank. It’s always fun.
Lisa: Oh, thank you again so much.
Frank: Oh, my pleasure. Bye-bye guys, you all be good.  
Lisa: All right, thank you, bye-bye. 
Gabe: Uh-huh, bye-bye. Lisa, what do you think? You didn’t say a whole lot. I mean, it is probably hard with Gabe and Frank on the line.
Lisa: Well, I thought he raised some interesting points. I thought his comedy was pretty funny, that was good. If I were at a conference, I’d want to go see that.
Gabe: Well, you know that that’s interesting because when you started off talking, I thought you were gonna say this sucks. I don’t think we should joke about mental illness. But then you ended with if we were at a conference, I’d want to go see it. It sounds like you’re conflicted, like you’re not sure.
Lisa: No.
Gabe: Whether this is okay or not.
Lisa: Well, I would say that the broader question of is comedy about bad things okay or not has a lot of gray in it. I think that humor and laughter is a recognizable way to deal with dark things. I use it myself. Almost everyone I know uses it. I think this is a universal part of the human condition. We all use humor to get through dark times or to address dark subjects. So, if this is something that you’re uncomfortable with, once he is laughing at his own mental illness, that indicates to the audience that it’s okay to laugh. He’s comfortable with it. So we’re comfortable with it.
Gabe: Lisa, you and I have been friends for forever, and I know that you like gallows humor. I know that you like dark humor.
Lisa: I do, I really do.
Gabe: We both like it. But I noticed that when Frank was telling some of the darker jokes and I mean, he just popped out of nowhere. You looked uncomfortable. I felt uncomfortable. 
Lisa: I don’t know that I’m so much uncomfortable, as just surprised and you’re not sure how to react. You know, like, what do I do? What do I say? What comes next? And, today, whoa, he just went straight for it.   There’s no lead up, no buildup. I think maybe that’s what it was. It was just it’s so shocking to be right in front of your face so fast.
Gabe: But let’s say that I did that. Let’s say you and I were we’re sitting in my living room, it’s 3:00 in the morning and I just I pop that joke. Would you know what to say then?
Lisa: Well, it’s different.
Gabe: Would you have laughed?
Lisa: Yeah, but it’s different when you’re with someone you literally know. I’ve met this man for the first time just now.
Gabe: But why? I think that’s an interesting concept, because kind of what you’re describing is that gallows humor is okay among close friends, privately, but publicly,
Lisa: Well.
Gabe: Maybe it’s not OK? I’m just curious as to why?
Lisa: Well.
Gabe: Listen, I did the same thing. I laughed uncomfortably. Everybody just heard it.
Lisa: I didn’t think about that as whether or not it was one of those things where it’s more for close friends and family or. But that’s not really a practical way to go about things just because most of my friends and family just aren’t that funny. So if I want to hear said humor, I’m gonna have to turn to some sort of mass media.
Gabe: But you’re alone.
Lisa: Oh, okay.
Gabe: You’re doing that mass media alone.
Lisa: Well, what if I were in the audience?
Gabe: There’s no production. There’s no producers. There’s no Psych Central hovering. There’s no, there’s no recording.
Lisa: Right.
Gabe: However, you reacted, is being recorded right now.
Lisa: Right.
Gabe: On recordings that you don’t control. Did that impact the way that you responded?
Lisa: Absolutely.
Gabe: Why?
Lisa: And I think it’s probably, I’m assuming it impacts the way that his audience responds as well. Because you’re looking for society to tell you that this is OK or this is not OK. You’re trying to take your cue from other people as to, because you don’t know how to react. It’s so unusual and it’s so surprising that you’re just not sure what to do. 
Gabe: Isn’t this what gets us in trouble, though? Listen to what you just said. You’re looking around to take your cues from society to decide how you should react. Now, let’s put that in an analogy for people living with mental illness, maybe the guy that you meet with bipolar disorder, you don’t have a problem with it until all of your friends and family say, whoa hoo hoo hoo hoo. You should
Lisa: Oh.
Gabe: Not date him. He’s mentally ill. So you look around to society to decide how to react. And suddenly the guy with bipolar disorder can’t have friends or get a job or have a shot because everybody is sharing in the same nucleus of misinformation. You had an opportunity to laugh at a joke that I know you find funny. I had an opportunity to laugh at a joke that I know that I found funny. And we opted to skip it because we weren’t sure how our listeners would react.
Lisa: Well,
Gabe: Wow. We’re breaking down walls.
Lisa: Well, OK, but that’s not exactly a fair comparison, because we do have a vested interest in how our listeners react. It’s not like we were at a comedy club with a bunch of people and who cares what they think of us. We care very much about what the people listening are thinking. So I don’t think that’s exactly a fair analogy. So let’s use that analogy, though, where. Yeah, that’s a good point. If it was just about a bunch of strangers or about the larger society and not people who, you know, control the purse strings, we would in fact be saying, yeah. You’re right. That is part of the culture of discrimination. I had not thought of it that way. Good point.
Gabe: Obviously, we’ve talked about a lot. I like this type of humor because if it wasn’t for this type of humor, I don’t know that how I would have gotten through. And I do embrace humor is healthy. I do think that sometimes joking about it breaks down barriers. It’s like the analogy that I told about my dad. There are people who are horrified to hear this story. I’m sure that some of them are listening right now. But it’s my dad. And we talk to each other that way. He would say the same thing to me if I was in that situation. And we’d laugh together and we’d cry together and we’d be a family together. And maybe you shouldn’t walk up to a stranger and threaten to beat them up. I kind of agree with that. But.
Lisa: Well, of course, you agree with that. Everything is in context.
Gabe: And there. There is my big point, I think that sometimes people miss the context of some of Frank’s jokes or some of the jokes that I tell as a speaker. Where people say, you know, that’s not something that you should joke about. But the context is education. The context is bringing it out of the shadows and making it something that we can point at, laugh at, discuss and will not be afraid of. If we’re paying attention to the context, I think a guy
Lisa: Well, but.
Gabe: Like Frank is perfectly fine. If we pay attention to the words, m aybe Frank has gone too far. I am on the all discussion is good discussion bandwagon.
Lisa: Ok, but that same thing could be said about any controversial comedian or any controversial comedy subject. It’s all about the context. We would never have any of this criticism of someone’s material ever if they knew for sure the people in the audience would be okay with it. You know, it’s all about deciding if this particular group of people is comfortable with this humor or not. And I can see I know what it is you’re going to say. You’re going to say that if they’re not comfortable with it, we need to make them comfortable with it. And one of the ways we do that is exposure.
Gabe: I think that is a good point, but I wasn’t going to say that at all. What I was going to say is that people have a right to discuss their lives and their trauma and their mental illness in any way they want. And while you may not agree with Frank or even find Frank funny or like Frank or I don’t know why I’m shitting all over Frank, all of a sudden. We love him. We had him on our show. But I think the solution here is to understand that Frank is describing his journey in the way that he is comfortable with. And if you don’t like it, don’t listen. What I worry about is when people say, listen, you have a mental illness, but you can only talk about your mental illness this way. You can only describe your experience in this manner. You can only describe your trauma using these words. I think that really creates a system where people can’t define their own recovery and their own existence. And people can’t be who they want. Yeah, I’m well aware of controversial comedians that that say all kinds of horrific things, but they’re saying them about other people. They’re not saying them about their selves. 
Lisa: Well, yeah. That’s why.
Gabe: One of the things that I love about Frank is that Frank discusses his own life. And yeah, some people don’t like the way that he does it. But I gotta tell you, I’ve been in his audience. The majority of the people love it. It just seems like the people who don’t like it are really loud.
Lisa: Well, you would prefer they just weren’t there at all. Everyone has kind of the inalienable right to define their own narrative, to discuss their own thing the way they want to, to put it into the words they choose. And I want to just go with that. I want to just be done there and just stop. Full stop. Done. But then I start thinking well, but, how far does that go? I get that you have mental illness and therefore you kind of have the permission slip to talk about this. But there is a non-zero point where I would say, OK, stop it.
Gabe: Well, but I think that what you’re discussing is that you don’t want Frank to tell you what to do with your life. And that’s the great thing about Frank King. His comedy is very personal. He only talks about his experiences, his life. I’ve never seen Frank say I am a person living with depression. And here’s what every single person with depression needs to do. I don’t know what the joke at the end of that would be, but yeah, yeah, I’d show right up and I’d be like, dude, you’re not the elected spokesperson for people with depression. 
Lisa: But that’s why people would critique it, because there’s a finite number of spokespeople. There are so few voices out there representing us that when one of them says the following thing, that is extra damaging. It’s not like there’s a thousand of these people out there. There’s only a handful. So I think many people feel like you need to tightly control that narrative. If they feel that narrative is incorrect or damaging and other people see that. And he has that cover of, hey, he’s mentally ill. You can’t criticize the way he talks about it, because, after all, it’s his own experience. But they feel that that is damaging to the overall movement. So I don’t know where to go with that. 
Gabe: Well, but people can critique it and say that isn’t their experience, but it is, in fact, Frank’s.
Lisa: OK.
Gabe: I can tell you that being a mental health speaker, I’m not a mental health comedian. I’m a mental health speaker and I don’t even have the mental health speaker dot com. So I don’t know.
Lisa: Well, that was a clear oversight.
Gabe: Yeah, I don’t know where that leaves me. But I can tell you, being a mental health speaker, I love it when people tell me I’m wrong. I love it when I get emails where people tell me that I missed the mark. I love it when people are discussing the things that I say. Being a podcaster  or I feel the same way. Respectful emails where people are like, Gabe, I listened to your whole podcast. I listened to your point of view and you are completely wrong. Mental Health Month is in fact, incredible. You shouldn’t have insulted in any way. It is only goodness. I listened to everything that you say. I completely disagree with you. You, sir, are wrong. That is my favorite email ever. They listened to what I said. They considered everything that I said and they are now putting out in the world that Gabe Howard is wrong. There is nothing wrong with that. We should be very, very clear. I just want to take a moment. Frank is not doing any of these things. We’re just using him as a
Lisa: Well, yeah, because he’s the one who’s here right now.
Gabe: Yeah, he was just dumb enough to come on the show. I bet he’s rethinking that now that he’s listening to it. 
Lisa: Yeah, we’re gonna have trouble getting guests after this.
Gabe: But seriously, these discussions are powerful. Right, Lisa, I understand what you’re saying.
Lisa: Yes.
Gabe: You don’t want to be on the Gabe train because then it’s all one way or all another.
Lisa: Because where’s the line?
Gabe: I’m telling you, there isn’t a line. It would be nice if we lived in a world where this is the stuff that was appropriate. And this is the stuff that was inappropriate. That world does not exist. I feel very strongly that the best we can do is allow for respectful dialog and respectful disagreement. I think that mental health advocacy would move forward at an extraordinarily rapid rate if all the people who disagreed could get on board, find the stuff we have in common and push that forward. Because, listen, we’re never going to agree. The way that a middle aged white guy experiences bipolar disorder is j ust different than a 70 year old woman who’s been living with bipolar disorder, which is different than 20 year olds who are being diagnosed, which is different from people below the poverty line, above the poverty line.
Lisa: Yeah, we get it. It’s all different. Everyone’s different, yes.
Gabe: I just I haven’t even scratched the surface of differences yet. I know that you think that I’m just going on and on and on and on and on. But you know as well as I do that I haven’t even covered one percent of all of the differences with people bipolar disorder.
Lisa: Well, obviously not. Because all of the people with bipolar disorder represent all of the available differences in the population.
Gabe: Exactly. This applies to more than just mental health.
Lisa: Yeah, It’s a broadly applicable discussion.
Gabe: And I really wanted to remind my listeners that, you know, so often people living with mental illness feel that the bar is different for us. And it is.
Lisa: Yeah, it is.
Gabe: The bar is different for us. But, you know, sometimes the bar is exactly the same. It’s exactly the same as everybody else. People are trying to decide the best way to discuss all kinds of controversial topics, scary topics, misunderstood topics. And they’re all running into the same problems that people who are advocating on behalf of people living with mental illness are running into. It is one of the things that bind us. It’s difficult to know how to get the word out there, because as sure as I’m sitting here, you’re going to step on somebody’s toes.
Lisa: Yeah. Here, here. Gabe.
Gabe: Lisa, did you have fun?
Lisa: Yes. A real treat to have Frank with us today.
Gabe: It was really, really awesome. Now, Lisa, you have seven days to come up with a new way to start the show. If you say hi, I am Lisa, I. 
Lisa: It’s hard. I need help here, people, help me, help me. Give me some advice.
Gabe: Really? You want people to e-mail [email protected] to tell an experienced podcaster how to start her own show?
Lisa: Yes, I feel that people should definitely e-mail [email protected] to let us know what it is I should be saying.
Gabe: You heard the lady; I’m not going to argue with her. Listen up, everybody. Here’s what I need you to do. If you love the show, please give us as many stars as humanly possible. Use your words and write about how much you loved us. Words really, really help. And share us on social media. Use your words there too. Really this whole thing comes down to using positive words to share us and subscribe and to make us famous. Like, wouldn’t it be cool if we were as famous as Frank King,
Lisa: Oh.
Gabe: at mental health comedian dot com?
Lisa: I believe that’s TheMentalHealthComedian.com, Gabe. He’s just not a mental health comedian. He is the mental health comedian.
Gabe: Once again, thank you, Frank. Thanks, everybody, for listening. And we will see you next Tuesday.
Lisa: Bye. See you then.
Announcer: You’ve been listening to the Not Crazy Podcast from Psych Central. For free mental health resources and online support groups, visit PsychCentral.com. Not Crazy’s official website is PsychCentral.com/NotCrazy. To work with Gabe, go to gabehoward.com. Want to see Gabe and me in person?  Not Crazy travels well. Have us record an episode live at your next event. E-mail [email protected] for details. 
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ashley-unicorn · 4 years
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Podcast: Joking About Suicide: Is It Ever Okay?
Is it ever OK to joke about mental illness or suicide? In today’s Not Crazy podcast, Gabe and Lisa welcome Frank King, a comedian who’s turned his struggles with major depression and suicidal thinking into comedic material.
What do you think? Is joking about suicide too heavy? Or is humor a good coping mechanism? Join us for an in-depth discussion on gallows humor.
(Transcript Available Below)
Subscribe to Our Show!
And Please Remember to Rate & Review Us!
  Guest Information for ‘Frank King — Joking and Suicide’ Podcast Episode
Frank King, Suicide Prevention speaker and Trainer was a writer for The Tonight Show for 20 years.
Depression and suicide run in his family. He’s thought about killing himself more times than he can count. He’s fought a lifetime battle with Major Depressive Disorder and Chronic Suicidality, turning that long dark journey of the soul into five TEDx Talks and sharing his lifesaving insights on Mental Health Awareness with associations, corporations, and colleges.
A Motivational Public Speaker who uses his life lessons to start the conversation giving people permission to give voice to their feelings and experiences surrounding depression and suicide.
And doing it by coming out, as it were, and standing in his truth, and doing it with humor.
He believes that where there is humor there is hope, where there is laughter there is life, nobody dies laughing. The right person, at the right time, with the right information, can save a life.
 About The Not Crazy Podcast Hosts
Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and speaker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular book, Mental Illness is an Asshole and other Observations, available from Amazon; signed copies are also available directly from Gabe Howard. To learn more, please visit his website, gabehoward.com.
        Lisa is the producer of the Psych Central podcast, Not Crazy. She is the recipient of The National Alliance on Mental Illness’s “Above and Beyond” award, has worked extensively with the Ohio Peer Supporter Certification program, and is a workplace suicide prevention trainer. Lisa has battled depression her entire life and has worked alongside Gabe in mental health advocacy for over a decade. She lives in Columbus, Ohio, with her husband; enjoys international travel; and orders 12 pairs of shoes online, picks the best one, and sends the other 11 back.
    Computer Generated Transcript for “Frank King- Joking and Suicide” Episode
Editor’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thank you.
Lisa: You’re listening to Not Crazy, a psych central podcast hosted by my ex-husband, who has bipolar disorder. Together, we created the mental health podcast for people who hate mental health podcasts.
Gabe: Hey, everybody, and welcome to the Not Crazy Podcast. My name is Gabe Howard and with me, as always, is Lisa. Lisa, do you have a new beginning this week?
Lisa: Oh, you totally ruined my thing. I was gonna do hi, I’m Lisa, but like in a cute voice.
Gabe: You think using like a different inflection, but the exact same words is a new introduction for you?
Lisa: Yes, I’m going to do different inflections.
Gabe: That’s terrible.
Lisa: I’ve been thinking about it for a full seven days.
Gabe: It’s terrible. You know, I am very happy that you’re here and I’m very happy that the show is about comedy. We are going to talk about is comedy and being funny surrounding mental health issues OK? Well, we kind of think it is. But Lisa, today we have a guest.
Lisa: Yes. Our guest, Frank King, lives with major depression and suffers from suicidal ideation, and he describes himself as a warrior in his lifelong battle with mental illness. And before we get started, we are going to talk about suicide. And Frank is a comedian. So it’s going to come up pretty quick. So be prepared for that.
Gabe: And there’s your trigger warning, folks, and after we’re done talking to Frank. Lisa and I will be back to tell you our thoughts, you know, behind his back.
Lisa: And recorded, so not really behind his back. He could still listen to it.
Gabe: I’m glad you told me that, because
Lisa: You forgot?
Gabe: Yeah, yeah, that just yeah.
Lisa: Yeah.
Gabe: I often forget that people are listening
Lisa: Really?
Gabe: No. No, never.
Gabe: And we’re just going to attack him a whole bunch. We’re gonna be like, that’s offensive. That’s awful. That’s terrible. People feel this way. And would you joke about murder? The answer, of course, is that people do joke about murder. People joke about all kinds of things. But I feel like we should let Frank defend himself. Frank, welcome to the show.
Frank: Thanks, Gabe. Thanks for the warm welcome.
Lisa: Oh, thank you for being here.
Gabe: Are you glad you said yes?
Frank: Huh, do you want me to be honest or kind?
Lisa: Too soon to say.
Frank: No, I’m delighted to be here. Glad we could find a time to do this, although I haven’t got another booking till May 2021, so I got plenty of time.
Gabe: COVID has slowed us all down. Frank, you’re a mental health comedian. That’s literally how you describe yourself. Frank King, the mental health comedian. Why? Can you tell us about that?
Frank: Yeah, I told my first joke in fourth grade and the kids laughed and I told my mom I’m gonna be a comedian. She said, because education is a big deal in our family. Well, son, you are gonna go to college and get a degree. Now, after college, you can be, I don’t know a goat herder if you choose. But you, my son, are going to be a goat herder with a degree. So I went to school in Chapel Hill. I got two degrees. One in political science, one in industrial relations.
Lisa: Oh, I didn’t know that was the thing.
Frank: I didn’t either.
Gabe: Can you get a job in that or did you have to fall back on comedy?
Frank: No. UNC Chapel Hill has a fabulous placements center. I interviewed literally 77 times. No second interviews, no job offers. So they’re looking at me thinking this guy’s a clown. And they were correct. So most people give up a good job to do comedy. But I was functionally unemployable. So my girlfriend, high school girlfriend and college, her father worked for an insurance company and he wrangled me a job as a marketing rep of an insurance company in Raleigh. And then we moved to San Diego. I should have never married my first wife. I knew going down the aisle it was not going to work. I just didn’t have the testicular fortitude to back out. We had nothing in common, essentially. And you know what they say, opposites attract. She was pregnant. I wasn’t. So, we got married and, in La Jolla, California, which is a suburb of San Diego, although La Jolla would tell you that San Diego is actually a suburb of La Jolla, the Comedy Store had a branch there, the world famous Comedy Store on Sunset.
Gabe: Yeah. Very cool.
Frank: And so I
Lisa: Yeah, I watched it when I was a kid.
Frank: And so I did what I tell comedians or want to be comedians to do. Go and sit through open mic night twice. See how bad everybody is, 75% of them. And that will give you the courage. I went down, sat through two nights of it and sure enough, 75, 80 percent were horrible. And I’m thinking I’m that funny just walking around. And so the third night I went, I got up. I did my five minutes. It was all about moving from North Carolina to California because back then that was quite a bit of culture shock. The joke I remember is I’d never seen guacamole. I’ve never actually seen an avocado growing up in North Carolina. So I pick up a chip and I’m headed for the bowl and I stop. I’m hovering over the bowl, staring at the guacamole. You know what guacamole looks like. The hostess comes running over. Frank, I’ll bet you don’t know what that is. You’re not from California. That is what we call guacamole. And it’s good. And I said, yes, I bet it was good the first time somebody ate it. And in my head that night, it’s only happened a couple of times in my life. I had the thought unbidden. I’m home on stage
Lisa: Aww.
Frank: There. And then my second thought was I would do this for a living. I have no idea how because I had no idea how difficult it is to make a living doing standup comedy. Had I known, I probably would not have tried.
Gabe: Frank, I love that story and that, of course, answers the second part, how you became a comedian, but why mental health? Why a mental health comedian?
Frank: Well, we’ll get there.
Gabe: Get there faster, Frank.
Lisa: Don’t, don’t.
Gabe: That’s what I’m telling you.
Frank: I see, okay.
Lisa: Don’t, Gabe. It’s just like with you, if you try to make him go faster, he’ll go slower. Just think Zen.
Frank: Yeah,
Lisa: Be chill.
Frank: Yeah.
Lisa: See all these years, that’s why I let you talk, because otherwise it takes longer.
Gabe: That’s so sweet.
Frank: I did amateur night for about a year, and then I won a contest in San Diego. Said to my girlfriend, now my wife of 32 years.
Lisa: Oh.
Frank: Look, I’m going on the road to do standup comedy. I had 10 weeks booked, which I thought was forever. You want to come along? And she said inexplicably, yes. So we put everything into storage that we couldn’t fit into my tiny little Dodge Colt.
Gabe: Wow.
Frank: No air conditioning. And we hit the road for 2,629 nights in a row. Nonstop, beer bar, pool hall, honky tonk, comedy club. And she just came along for the ride. We had no home, no domicile. No, we were, you know.
Gabe: Now, generally speaking, when people are homeless, I think maybe they’re not so good at what they’re doing. But?
Lisa: It’s apparently a different type of industry.
Frank: And it was a great time of our lives. I mean, back then they put you up in a comedy condo, three bedrooms. So I worked with and spent time, weeks at a time in condos with Dennis Miller and Jeff Foxworthy and Ron White, Ellen DeGeneres, Rosie O’Donnell and Dana Carvey and Adam Sandler. Back when they were just comics. So we rode that wave for about seven years. And then I got a job in radio in Raleigh, North Carolina, my old hometown, and I took a number one morning show. I drove it to number six in 18 months. A friend of mine said you didn’t just drive it into the ground. You drove it into Middle Earth. So I did.
Lisa: Well, but in absolute value, that’s a, that’s a big up.
Gabe: I mean, six is a bigger number than one, congratulations.
Lisa: There you go. Yeah.
Frank: So then my boss at the time, we’re still friends, said to me, well, you go back on the road doing stand up. Well, standup was going away. More clubs are closing than opening. So I’ve always been very clean. Which cost me in the one nighter beer bar situations. But join the National Speaker Association, got to the rubber chicken circuit and rode that and made good money just doing HR friendly corporate clean comedy until 2007 and a half basically. And then the market, you know, the speaking market dropped out 80% practically overnight. And my wife and I lost everything we worked for for twenty five years in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy. And that’s when I found out what the barrel of my gun tastes like. Spoiler alert. I didn’t pull the trigger. I tell that story and a friend of mine came up afterwards, who never heard me say that before. And he goes, Hey, man, how come you didn’t pull the trigger? I go, Hey, man, could you try to sound a little less disappointed? So. And if you want to know why I didn’t pull the trigger, it’s in my first TED talk.
Gabe: I mean, sincerely, we. This is the crux of the show, right? That’s like really heavy. Like when you said it, I was like, oh, my God, what can I do to save, Frank? You already told me that it was.
Lisa: Yeah, I was also thinking whoa whoa, did not see that coming. All right.
Gabe: Right. But you said it funny. I mean, there’s no other way to put it. That was a joke about something really, really serious. And I imagine that there’s a shock value there. There’s a like that was unexpected.
Frank: Yeah, and it is there on purpose.
Gabe: Do you get shit for that? I mean, I can already read the letters. I was trying to listen to your podcast. We were all having a good time. And then Frank made a joke about suicide that I wasn’t expecting. How dare you? And on one hand, I want to agree with them, like, oh, like that would be unexpected. But on the other hand, I appreciate humor. I embrace humor. It is healthy. How do you answer the people that tell you this?
Lisa: Well, first, I want to hear how he decided to talk about this, because this friend comes up to him and he tells the story. Is that because that friend thought it was hilarious and you were like, oh, this is definitely where the money is? I’m gonna go this direction. I mean, how did that happen?
Frank: Well, I had a mental health act at that point when he actually said that. So I just, as many comics do, 
Lisa: Ok.
Frank: Added to that because everybody laughed. The actual original line was bankruptcy, lost everything. And I had an itch on the roof of my mouth I could only scratch with the front side on my nickel plated .38, which people found a little graphic. So I,
Gabe: Yeah.
Lisa: Well.
Frank: I came up with the what the barrel of my gun tastes like. It’s faster. And what I do is I do it on purpose for two reasons. One, anybody in the audience who has a mental illness who hears me say, I can tell you what the barrel of my gun tastes like, you can see them lean forward because all of a  sudden, they realize that I get it. And it shocks the neuro typical people, which is what I’m after, into paying better attention, because that’s why I’m there, is to let the mentally ill people know that they’re not alone and help the neurotypical people decode how someone can be so depressed that they would take their own life. And so, but then again, you notice I talk about taste of the barrel of my gun and then I go, spoiler alert, didn’t pull the trigger. So you get the shock and then you get the joke, although it only gets a nervous laugh, that line, you know. Huh. And then the big payoff is friend of mine came up. Why didn’t you pull the trigger? Could you. Yeah. So it is constructed that way on purpose. The shock value. And then the first small laugh. Should we be laughing at the fact you put a gun in his mouth? And then the big laugh with the guy who came up afterwards and said, you know, and I said try to sound a little less disappointed.
Frank: So but yeah, it’s, um, except for the fact that I was given some grief about the original line, about the itch on the roof of my mouth. Nobody’s ever complained about the. I don’t know whether they I’ve shocked him into apoplexy. They can’t. I’d like to say something, but I can’t. And there’s a comedy principle there in that if you give them something very serious like the gun in the mouth and you follow it with something amusing, then they’re much more ready and able to handle the next piece of serious information that you give them, regardless of what it is. So there’s a rhythm to and then the reason, you know, everything is where it is in that bit and in the in my speech. What happened was I would do standup comedy and I’d always wanted to make a living and a difference because when I went to work in insurance, I saw all the old school motivational guys, Zig Ziglar and like that. I thought, man, I could do that if I just had something to teach somebody. Well, when I came so close, and it runs in my family. My grandmother died by suicide.
Frank: My mother found her. My great aunt died by suicide. My mother and I found her. I was four years old, I screamed for days. I thought, I think I can maybe talk about it. And then I bought a book by a woman named Judy Carter called The Message of You: Turning Your Life into a Money Making Speaking Career. And I went into it thinking, I’ve got nothing. And Judy walks you through finding your heart story and what you should be talking about. And about halfway through, I thought I do have something to talk about. So I use Judy’s book to design my first TED talk. I used a book called Talk Like TED to refine it. And then I delivered it and I came out to the world at 52 as somebody who’s depressed and suicidal. My wife didn’t know my family, my friends, no one knew. Now to Gabe’s point, the only thing I’ve ever gotten grief for about that TEDx talk was that I didn’t know that the preferred language around suicide was die by suicide, completed a suicide, in that I said committed suicide. And it actually cost me a gig. They saw that, and I said, well, look at the next three.
Gabe: Yeah.
Frank: But they didn’t want to hire me because I used the term committed suicide.
Gabe: We talk about this a lot. Everywhere I go. I used to be the host of a podcast called A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast and all of our mail. OK. I should back off that a little. Not all of our mail but, but probably 75% of our mail, was your language is offensive. It should be called a person living with bipolar, a person living with schizophrenia and a portable digital file that you can listen to at your leisure. And I thought that’s just so cumbersome. But what really struck me about this language debate is, for the record, I agree that we should say completed suicide or attempted suicide. I don’t like the term commit because it makes it sound. I agree with that change. But so what? You probably agree with the thought behind it as well. And you just didn’t know at the time. We’re not educating people if we start, you know, firing people every time they make a mistake. I mean, just heaven forbid.
Frank: Well, here’s the deal. I said there is no bigger commitment than blowing your brains out. Two, there’s an old joke about breakfast, bacon and eggs. The chicken is involved. The pig was committed. Still didn’t get the gig. But I felt better.
Gabe: I understand. Look, I’m not saying that there’s not an iota of truth in the way we talk to each other and the way that we speak to one another and the words that we choose to use. It’s one of the reasons that you’re probably a comedian because, you know, that language can be manipulated in a way that makes people pay closer attention. 
Frank: Oh, yeah.
Gabe: Or a way that makes people laugh or that, you know, ruffles people’s feathers. We’re all aware of this. But I still have to point out time and time again, if we put as much effort into getting people with serious mental illness help as we do in deciding how to discuss people with serious mental illness, I think the world would be a better place. I had to take a lot of shit about that, Frank.
Frank: Yeah. My radio co-host, had an expression, is that the hill you want to die on? And no, that’s not the hill I want to die. That’s not where I want to spend my effort. I’ll use proper language. But I’m not you know, right before I came on with you guys, I was on a dental podcast because dentists have a high rate and several have died recently, high profile. And the gentleman I was talking to said committed suicide. And I just let it go. I wasn’t going to school him. I mean, if I saw him later, I’d say, hey, man, just a note, you know, just for your own edification and to avoid trouble in the future. And I have done that with other people. You know, people say something. I said, look, you know, when you figure somebody has mental illness, you need to avoid this or that. It is not always language so much as it is. You know, I choose joy.
Gabe: Yeah.
Frank: Ok, well, one of the guys who’s involved in our book is very much a positive motivational speaker sort of fellow. And he thinks, he said something about the state of mind, that positive state of mind and choosing positive thoughts is the antidote to depression. And I said, you have to be very careful about that because there are those of us who are organically predisposed. And I am the most positive person who’s suicidal you’ll probably ever meet. I have a great attitude. You know, I have chronic suicidal ideation so I could blow my brains out tomorrow. But, you know, it’s not a matter of attitude.
Lisa: Positive thinking only takes you so far.
Frank: Yeah, it’s like saying to a parent of a child who has a problem depression and thoughts of suicide to hire a coach. A life coach. It’s like, no. And the pushback I get the most on, Gabe, is somebody will confront me. How can you joke about mental illness and suicide?
Gabe: Yeah.
Frank: An overarching question, an in the macro question. How can you joke about depression and thoughts of suicide? I say, so here’s the deal. In comedy, maybe you know this, you can joke about any group to which you belong.
Lisa: Right.
Gabe: Exactly. Yes. Yes. I always hate it when people tell me how to talk about myself
Frank: Yeah.
Gabe: Or when people tell me how to react to my own trauma or my own experiences, like you can’t talk about your life that way. What I
Frank: What?
Gabe: I just. Listen, having mental illness. I live with bipolar disorder. And it is rough and it is tough. And society is constantly on top of me telling me what to do, how to behave, how to act. You know, this treatment is good. This treatment is bad. Anti psychiatry, pro psychiatry, med model. Just everywhere, just like everybody has an opinion about my life. And then people start having opinions of how I’m supposed to think and discuss my life. It’s bad enough you all have opinions on everything else I do. But now you’re trying to control how I think about my own experiences and explain them to others. Now, now I want to fight.
Lisa: Well, they think they’re helping.
Gabe: I know they think they’re helping, but they’re not.
Frank: The name your previous podcast was something of a bipolar? It was a?
Gabe: A bipolar schizophrenic and a podcast.
Frank: Yes, I thought it was so three guys walking into a bar.
Gabe: Yeah, we stole it from three guys in a pizza place
Frank: Yeah. Exactly.
Lisa: Well, the name of this one is Not Crazy, so if the question at the beginning of the episode is, is it OK to joke about mental illness? I think we’ve already answered it with the title.
Frank: Yes.
Gabe: Yeah, we get pushback on the title. People suck.
Lisa: I know.
Frank: So do I. I get. I just got off the podcast with the dentists, and I said, look, before I leave, let me give you my phone number, my cell phone number, and I give it to him twice, and I say put it in the show notes. And here’s the deal. The reason I do that, I do it every keynote that I do. I give my cell phone number.
Lisa: Really? 
Frank: Yep.
Lisa: Ok.
Frank: I say, look, if you’re suicidal, call the suicide prevention lifeline or text HELP to 741741. If you’re just having a really bad day, call a crazy person like me. Because we’re not going to judge. We’re just going to listen.
Gabe: Yeah.
Frank: As a friend of mine says, co-sign on your B.S. and I’ve gotten pushback on you shouldn’t use word crazy. So, here’s the thing. I’m taking it back.
Gabe: Yes.
Frank: As gay people took back the term queer and made it not a pejorative. I’m taking crazy back because I own it. I’ve paid for it. It’s my word if I want to use it. And so, yeah, that gets my dander up. It’s, you know.
Gabe: Here, here’s the thing about comedy that I love so much. And I agree with you and Lisa and I talk about this all the time, for some reason, we’re so hung up on words that we’re not at all hung up on context.
Frank: No.
Gabe: Do you know how many horrible things have happened to me with the right words being used? Mr. Howard, I’m sorry. I’m going to have to fire you from your job because you’re a person living with mental illness
Lisa: But we’ve talked about why that is.
Gabe: Why?
Lisa: Because it’s easier. Do you know how much trouble and effort it would be to end homelessness or provide an adequate mental health safety net or suicide prevention programs? Those are hard and they’re expensive. Telling people to start talking in a different way is much, much easier and free.
Gabe: And you can do it on Facebook.
Lisa: Yeah, that helps, too. You don’t have to leave your house.
Frank: And I get together once a month, sometimes more, on a Monday with my crazy comedy klatch, anywhere from two to six of us who are all crazy. All have a mental illness of one stripe or another. And we get together for an hour. We take off our game face and we are just ourselves and say things that would. One morning somebody comes and goes, you know, a guy jumped off a six story building downtown. I go, six stories? Not a chance in hell. You could survive six stories. Just leave you a quadriplegic. I’m going at least 10.
Lisa: Good thinking.
Frank: And there’s somebody at the table behind me is like, did you just? I go, it’s a math problem. You know, you just have to reach terminal velocity. Give me a break. But that’s how you know. Somebody said something about suicide. And I said, look, if you going to die by suicide, don’t jump off a bridge and land on some poor civilian’s car and ruin their lives forever. Get a bomb vest, find some jackass and wrap your arms around him and then pull the trigger. Do, you know, make the world a better place.
Lisa: That’s actually super good advice.
Frank: Yeah.
Gabe: That is terrible advice and Not Crazy, does not does not condone murder in any way.
Lisa: I just can’t believe. I have spent a lot of time thinking about suicide. I have never thought of that.
Gabe: Listen, what we’re talking about is called gallows humor, it’s dark humor. Now, I am a big fan of it. In my darkest moments, the things that, honest to God, saved my life were the people that looked at me and told me jokes like we just talked about here. But not everybody likes them and not everybody understands them.
Frank: No.
Gabe: I mean, it doesn’t matter if we’re talking about mental illness, mental health or. You know, my family. OK, here’s what this reminds me of. My dad got in a horrible accident. I mean, he had to be life flighted like it was really serious. We got a call. We had to get in the car. We had to drive 12 hours because we live in Ohio. He lives in Tennessee. And we go there. And my dad is 70 years old and he’s listen, he’s beat to shit. And the nurse needed him to sign a consent form. And, of course, you know, my dad, he’s on painkillers. He’s scared. He’s in the hospital. Did I mention he was, you know, like, really physically messed up from the accident? And he’s giving the nurse trouble. He’s like, I don’t want to. I don’t want to. I don’t want to. And I said, you know, Dad, you need to sign that. And he goes, I don’t want to.
Gabe: And I looked my dad in the eyes and I said, if you don’t sign that, I’m going to beat you up. And there was this awkward moment of silence for like a second. And my dad just starts laughing. He just starts cracking up. He’s laughing so hard that he’s like, don’t. Don’t make me laugh. It hurts. It hurts. And he grabs the clipboard and he signs it. Now, I’ve told that story, I don’t know, a thousand times and about 50% of the time people gasp like, oh, my God, this sounds like a really serious emergency. Your dad had to be life flighted. Why would you say that to him? What kind of a horrible, awful son are you? Look, I know my dad. This is how we talk to each other. It lightens the mood. My dad thought it was funny. And listen, we didn’t have a lot to laugh at, so we had to laugh at the only thing that was in the room, which was the fact that my dad got in an accident that almost killed him and had to be life flighted and his son had to drive 12 hours to see him. I think it’s the same way with mental illness. I think that’s what we need to laugh at. I think if we’re not laughing, we’re crying.
Lisa: Humor is a way to deal with dark topics that are uncomfortable, it’s a way to make you feel better about things that are sucky.
Gabe: But not everybody believes that. How do you counterbalance that? Because in any room, especially your rooms, Frank, they’re big rooms, there’s five hundred a thousand people in those rooms. And better than average odds are, there’s a couple of hundred people that think that you’re a jackass that’s making fun of mentally ill people and you’re doing a great disservice.
Frank: Yeah, well, you know, that’s the difference between being a speaker and a comedian. As a comedian, I’m very careful. You’ve got to know your audience.
Lisa: Well, that’s really the key. Knowing your audience. 
Frank: Yeah.
Lisa: It eliminates this entire discussion.
Gabe: Yeah, but you’re hired at corporate events. The audience doesn’t choose themselves. This makes it a little more difficult. Right, Frank? I mean, if you’re.
Lisa: Well, no, because he doesn’t actually need to please the audience, he just needs to please the people who hired him.
Gabe: Now, come on, that that’s.
Lisa: Those two things will probably usually go together, but not always.
Gabe: We’re not playing lawyer ball here, Lisa.
Lisa: I’m just saying.
Frank: Yeah, the I’ve got a friend is a funeral director, mortician, so is his dad, and they have the darkest sense of humor. I go into a motivational speech for the Selected Independent Funeral Homes. They call me up and they said.
Lisa: This is a good joke. I can tell. It’s going to be a good, good setup.
Gabe: Well, this isn’t a joke, it’s a story, right?
Frank: True story.
Gabe: It’s a true story.
Lisa: It’s going to be funny in the end, though, I can tell.
Gabe: Everything Frank says is funny.
Frank: A month ahead of time they call me. What do you call your motivational speech for morticians? And I was kidding. I said I call it Thinking Inside the Box. And they liked it so much. I had to have my first slide is, you know, Thinking Inside the Box. The son and father are hysterical. And then his dad is on a ship. I’m doing 10 days on a 115 day world cruise. And I don’t know if you guys know this, but the longer the cruise, the older the passengers.
Gabe: Really?
Lisa: Well, that makes sense. They have the time.
Gabe: I guess. Yeah, they don’t have jobs. Yeah, that makes sense.
Frank: Yeah. One hundred fifteen days, we’re talking old people and their parents. Every night, same thing for dessert: oxygen. Yeah. Did a show in an 800 seat theater, it was packed. I call my wife, honey, there was so much white hair in that theater, it looked like a Q-tip convention. So in my act I have this story about how every industry has a favorite joke. And I tell one about the grain industry. There’s one about my favorite actually is ophthalmologists and optometrists. Their favorite joke is this is my impression of an ophthalmologist or an optometrist making love. How’s that? How about now? Better or worse? One or two? Yeah. And I said, guys like if you’ve never worn glasses, ask somebody because that’s funny.
Lisa: Well, yeah, I was going to say only people who wear glasses are gonna get that.
Frank: Well, then there’s a mortician joke and the mortician joke is what’s the most difficult thing about being a mortician? And it’s trying to look sad at a $35,000 funeral. So I tell the joke
Lisa: That’s not a joke, though. That’s real.
Frank: It’s true, but I tell the joke and I say
Gabe: Well, but it is funny. 
Frank: It is funny, and the audience laughs. And I say is anybody here in the audience, a mortician, retired or active duty? And a guy on the balcony raise his hand. I go, what’s a mortician doing on a 115 day world cruise? He stands up, waves his arm across a crowd and goes inventory. And it kills. 
Gabe: Oh.
Frank: And I’ve been, and it’s been killing ever since. And it may be, Gabe, because he delivers the punch line.
Lisa: It’s entirely because he delivers it.
Frank: Yeah, exactly.
Lisa: Otherwise, it’s not funny. Otherwise, it’s just mean.
Frank: Yes, comedy, there’s an art and a science. Comedians should always be shooting up, not down.
Lisa: Exactly. Yes.
Frank: So if I was neurotypical, I couldn’t make any of the jokes I make about depression and suicide because I’d be shooting down.
Gabe: Right. You’d be making fun of people below you on that. Yeah.
Lisa: Yeah, making fun of a oppressed group is not funny. It’s just piling on to the problems that are already there.
Frank: It’s like, women should always win in a joke. And that’s why men shouldn’t make fun of, or minorities. It’s difficult being a white comedian. Six foot tall, brown haired white guy because I.
Lisa: Yeah, yeah, you poor dear.
Gabe: We’re sorry, Frank. At least God gave you a mental illness so you had something to talk about.
Frank: Yeah, I’m well aware of being born a white male, heterosexual Protestant in the US gives you a huge advantage. But frankly, if you have born that way in a relatively stable family and you haven’t succeeded at something, you’re doing it wrong.
Lisa: Yeah.
Gabe: Yeah.
Frank: Yeah, so, if you are gay or black or Mexican, you can joke about all those. Comedy is tragedy plus time or difficulty plus time. So, you know, because minorities have more difficulty. If you’re a minority, you can joke about all minorities. If you’re a white guy, not so much. So there are comedy rules and regulations that bleed over into my speaking. I try to teach my speaking coaching students this. There should not be a word in there that doesn’t serve a purpose, including moving the narrative forward. I mean, you got to be very careful how you word things, because in radio, they say it’s not what you said. It’s not what they heard. It’s what they thought they heard. And nowadays it’s all filtered, more so, I think, than in the past because of the division. You know, the right and the left and the P.C. and the preferred pronouns. And I was on campus, Gabe, at University of Montana, Billings, two nice young men drive me around to radio stations. And one of them said, you know, Frank, comics have a tough time on campus nowadays because people get offended. Do you worry about people getting offended? I said, well, if I was a comedian, I’d be worried. However, I’m here on campus to save lives. So my philosophy is. And then there’s an F and an ’em. F ’em.
Lisa: Hmm.
Frank: I don’t care whose toes I step on if it means I’m saving people.
Gabe: Exactly. It’s always to your point about everybody being offended. If people are offended, I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. And again, I want to be very, very clear. There are offensive statements
Frank: Oh, yeah.
Gabe: That go too far. But if people are sitting around discussing what you said and they’re passionate about what you said and they disagree passionately with what you said, they’re applying their critical thinking skills to what you said and determining if they like it or dislike it, agree with it, don’t agree with it. And I think that there’s power in that. If after I leave a whole bunch of people get together and discuss everything that I said, I think that a lot more people will be helped than if everybody’s like, well, he didn’t do anything. I mean, literally just it sucks to not be remembered. Don’t get me wrong. I want to be remembered for good things, Frank.
Frank: Yeah.
Gabe: But I want to be remembered.
Lisa: Well, but it’s interesting what you said there, that there are some things that go too far. But isn’t that your base premise, that depending on your audience, there’s not? That there is, in fact, nothing that goes too far?
Frank: Well, there’s too soon.
Lisa: Ok, too soon.
Frank: Yeah.
Lisa: All right. Not exactly the same.
Frank: But yeah, I think Gabe’s right. I think if you leave them talking and I have no problem with someone, who comes up afterwards and says to me, look, I have a problem with blank. And so we talk about it. Well, here’s my philosophy. Here’s why I said that. Here’s why I chose those words. Now tell me why you find that? What do you find offensive about that? Because I know I can learn things too. I mean it’s.
Lisa: Has that happened? Can you think of any? I mean, one of these discussions has perhaps led to you changing up a joke with or rethinking something or gaining new info?
Frank: Back in the day during the AIDS crisis, back in the Reagan years, a lot of comics, male, heterosexual, made jokes about AIDS because it was the gay plague. Back then, anyway. When it became affecting heterosexuals, it wasn’t quite as funny, but I told a joke in the punchline involved AIDS and a friend of mine took me aside. He goes, Look, I know you don’t have a mean bone in your body, but I don’t think you understand how devastating this epidemic is among groups and communities. And so, I think if you knew or if I can impress upon you how wrong that joke is, that you wouldn’t do it. And I dropped it immediately from my act once he explained why it was so wrong. So it has happened. It doesn’t happen a lot. And I’m very careful about, you know, getting there.
Lisa: Clearly, you’ve thought it through or you would be using the joke in the first place.
Frank: Yes. Yeah. So I am open to criticism and changing things. Like with committed suicide, I said, OK, that’s the preferred language. Or live with bipolar. That’s a preferred language that’s less offensive to some people, you know. What does it cost me to change it?
Lisa: That’s an interesting point. Yeah, that’s a good point, what does it cost you?
Frank: Yeah,
Lisa: You to change it?
Frank: But I’m with Gabe, I don’t think that should be our focus.
Lisa: Right. Right.
Frank: And, Lisa. I’m with you on this. That’s easy to do. Solving a homeless problem or much more difficult.
Gabe: Right. That’s where I am.
Lisa: Do you feel that some of the criticism you got is, you know, when I see people who are using incorrect terms, et cetera, that you feel like, OK, they don’t know any better, this is your chance to educate. This is your chance to inform. Do you feel that the thinking was, hey, if you’re going to broach the topic, you should already be at that level? Like, is that part of the criticism that people feel like you, of all people, should know better?
Frank: Yeah, I would say so,
Lisa: Would you not get that same amount of criticism if you yourself did not have a mental illness?
Frank: Yeah, exactly. And I have, as Gabe does I’m sure, that deep understanding of the. I don’t know, Gabe, if you do this, but I spend a lot of time by myself in self reflection inside my own head and.
Gabe: Of course I do. Constantly.
Lisa: That’s mental illness.
Frank: Yeah,
Gabe: That’s pretty much the only place I live.
Lisa: Yeah.
Frank: Well, I’m driving one day and I thought to myself, I’m not going to use the term battle depression anymore because battle implies I can win. I cannot win. I can tie. Uneasy truce like North and South Korea. I can lose. Kill myself, but I cannot win. And I’ve had arguments with people, no you can be cured. No. No. For me, there is no cure.
Lisa: Right. Only treatment.
Frank: I live with it. I take sort of an aikido approach. Aikido is a martial art where you blend with your person coming at you rather than go up against their energy, you blend with the energy, take their balance. Because depression is a great power and energy. And so rather than bump up against it, I try to blend with it and move forward with it. You use that energy to continue to move forward. It’s difficult, but that mindset of rather than, you know, battling it.
Lisa:  We’ll be right back after these messages.
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Lisa: And we’re back talking about whether or not it is OK to joke about mental illness with comedian, Frank King. Frank, I have been wondering, after watching some of your acts, where does your comedy come from?
Frank: I believe my comedy timing, imagination is simply the flip side of my major depressive disorder and chronic suicidal ideation. I taught a class called Stand Up for Mental Health. You have to have a diagnosis to get in, a diagnosis to teach it. I got to tell you, they were the best students I ever had. Okay, here’s a dark one. These are jokes. This is the way it came out of her head. Most comics got a whole page, and they have to like redact two thirds of it. She goes I went to see my psychiatrist. I go, Camille, what did the psychiatrist say? Well, he asked me if I was depressed? I said yes. He asked if I had any thoughts of suicide? Yes. He said, do you have a plan? I said, I have five plans. Five plans? She goes, Yeah. You want to hear them all or just the ones that involve you? It’s dark, but there’s not a word in that that doesn’t move the narrative forward. Here’s one. Tosh. She said, My boyfriend said he wanted to break up with me. I said, well, why did he want to do that, Tosh? She goes, because he wants to see other people. I said, What did you say? I said, I’m bipolar. Give me a minute. Just that’s the way it came out of her head. And here’s a deal, I can teach you to write standup comedy.
Frank: I could teach you perform standup comedy. What I cannot teach you to do is process. So if somebody said, Frank, one pill one time, never be depressed again, never another suicidal thought. The only side effect is you’re not going to process as a comedian. Then keep the pill, I’ll live with the downside to hang onto the upside. That is where my comedy comes from. And heckler lines, people go, how did you think up? I’m on the bus. I was in Cambodia. We were on busses to go to the airport to catch a plane to come home. And the woman in front of me, an older woman on a cruise. Go figure. I was doing a podcast from my phone in the seat behind her and she goes, hang up the phone. I go, it’s not a phone call, it’s a podcast, I’m working. Hang up, eh. So I went back another row, kept my voice down. Well, it didn’t please her at all. It didn’t mollify her. So we’re getting ready to get off the bus. We all stand up. I’m several steps behind as she turns. She goes “drop dead.” And where this came from, I can’t tell you. I said, given your age, I’m guessing you’re going first. People say, well, how do you think that up? I didn’t think that up. The first time she heard it was first time I heard. I have no idea. But that’s my, that’s. You don’t have to be mentally ill to write comedy or perform comedy. But it don’t hurt.
Gabe: I always hear these jokes where people say, did you have a good childhood or are you funny? You know, I’ve read a lot of books that say, you know, some of the best comedy comes from traumatic experience.
Frank: Yeah, yeah.
Lisa: Absolutely.
Gabe: And I. Mental illness is a traumatic experience. And I’m not speaking for all the listeners and I’m obviously not speaking for Lisa and Frank, but for me, the humor is all I have some days. If I can’t laugh at it, I’m going to cry. And that’s why these inappropriate and I’m making the, you know, I wish it was a video podcast
Frank: Air quotes.
Gabe: So people could see how often I can make air quotes. If it wasn’t for the humor that I can find in this, it would be nothing but darkness. And that’s the way I see it.
Frank: One last example, I had a heart attack, I was in the woods half mile up a logging trail with the dogs, I had T-mobile, so I didn’t have cell service. And that never fails to get a laugh and.
Lisa: I used to have T-Mobile, yeah.
Frank: Oh, God.
Gabe: Yeah, it sucked.
Frank: Yes. Sucks out loud. Anyway, I got back to the car. Back to the house, yelled at my wife. I’m having a heart attack, dial 911. I heard she came out, got me in an ambulance. I’m at the hospital. Here’s the nice thing about a heart attack. No waiting. Nobody gives a shippa about HIPPA. I’m in the back. And the tragedy plus time equals comedy. But the longer you do comedy, the shorter the time. I’m doing comedy in real time.
Lisa: I could see that.
Frank: That nurse says to me, I’m in great deal of pain. I’m having a heart attack. She goes, Frank, no paperwork. But I just got one question for you. And I said, I’m married, Honey, but I love the way you think. And she’s trying not to laugh. It’s like, Gabe, if I didn’t have my comedy, what would I have? She goes, No, no, no, no. Your full name is Frank Marshall King, the third. But what do you like to be called? And I said, through the pain, Big Daddy. And to this day, when I go back to Oregon Heart & Vascular and somebody sees me from that morning, hey, Big Daddy, how’s it hanging? So, yeah, Gabe, if I didn’t have the humor. I mean, if I didn’t have that way of dealing with the pain, whether it’s a heart attack or mental illness or whatever it happens to be, it’s you know, it’s just the way we cope. 
Gabe: You know, Frank, obviously I live with bipolar disorder, but I’ve also had physical issues. I was rushed in an ambulance to the emergency room. I had a surgery that kind of didn’t turn out so well. And here I am in the emergency room and Lisa is trying desperately to find me.
Lisa: Well, the woman said to me, are you sure he’s here? I know he’s here. I followed the ambulance. He is here. And then she said something and I said, he is a six foot three redhead. He can’t be that hard to find.
Frank: Yeah.
Gabe: And the nurse said, you’re looking for Gabe?
Lisa: He’s only been here like fifteen inutes.
Frank: Well, he makes an impression.
Lisa: That actually happened. 
Gabe: I do. I make an impression.
Lisa: He’s not making that that story up. That actually happened.
Gabe: Now, here I am. The rest of that is true. And Lisa is now yelling at me because I’m so popular.
Frank: No, my ex-wife would tell you, look, Frank, he had a lot. He had a lot of faults, but I never went to a party with him where we didn’t have a good time.
Lisa: I can see that.
Gabe: Now, the reason I’m telling that story is because everybody loves that story. I tell that story all the time. People are like, oh, Gabe, it’s so good that you can keep your humor. It was scary. And that helped Lisa. And, oh, that’s so beautiful talking about it in that way. But whenever I do that for mental illness, people are like, that’s inappropriate stop. And I’m like, no, wait a minute. 
Frank: What?
Gabe: Why? What’s the. This is one of those, you know,
Lisa: Because it’s not as scary.
Gabe: Stigmatizing things. You know, making fun of me, almost dying from a surgery, going wrong and almost bleeding to death at home. People are like, yeah, he’s tough, but joking about mental illness, about bipolar disorder. And people are like I don’t know that you’re taking it seriously. And it’s a very scary illness. And I think you might be hurting other people that suffer from this. And I only point that out because we want mental illness and physical illness to be treated exactly the same. And I guarantee there’s nobody that heard your story about, you know, the big daddy story
Frank: Yeah.
Gabe: About the heart attack. That wasn’t like hell, yeah, he was. You’re a tough guy. But then I hear some of the stuff about suicidality, depression, and like, I don’t know, maybe I don’t like this. And let’s consider just, you know, you don’t have to agree with me immediately. Let’s consider the whys of that. Why do we feel that way? And I think that will allow us to move forward. Look, humor is funny. We need it. We like it. If it’s not for you, don’t listen to it. Frank’s not for everybody.
Frank: It’s a way of breaking down barriers and having a meeting of the minds. Because a laugh is something where your minds have to meet. You have to be in the same place at the same time. You know, seeing the same thing. I tell my comedy students, paint the picture, it’s gotta be very vivid. So they can be there with you. Right there with you.
Gabe: Well, that is awesome. You are awesome.
Frank: Well, thank you very much.
Lisa: Yeah, we really enjoyed it. Where can people find you?
Frank: TheMentalHealthComedian.com is my Web site. My phone number’s there and sometime in the next, I’m guessing this week, there will be an audio book version of a book that Gabe and I are in.
Gabe: Yeah, I actually I think I’m in volume two and you’re in volume one. I didn’t make the cut, but Guts, Grit & The Grind, you can find it on Amazon. It’s a collection of stories from men about their mental health issues, mental illnesses and just the whole concept, we’ve got to give a shout out to Dr. Sally, was that men just don’t talk about their mental health enough and there’s getting to be more men. But I like to joke that I got into this business because it was predominantly women.
Frank: Yes. And Sarah Gaer, whose idea it was and who teaches QPR to first responders, mostly men. She went to the bookstore to find a book on men’s mental health, couldn’t find one. Went on Amazon, couldn’t find one. So she
Gabe: Here we go.
Frank: She put it together. Yes. And if you go to my website, sometime in the next week or so, they’ll be a, put your email in, and you get a free copy of the audio book that I voiced.
Gabe: Nice. Nice. If you want to hear Frank’s voice even more, you know what to do. That would be awesome, Frank. It’s always fun.
Lisa: Oh, thank you again so much.
Frank: Oh, my pleasure. Bye-bye guys, you all be good.  
Lisa: All right, thank you, bye-bye. 
Gabe: Uh-huh, bye-bye. Lisa, what do you think? You didn’t say a whole lot. I mean, it is probably hard with Gabe and Frank on the line.
Lisa: Well, I thought he raised some interesting points. I thought his comedy was pretty funny, that was good. If I were at a conference, I’d want to go see that.
Gabe: Well, you know that that’s interesting because when you started off talking, I thought you were gonna say this sucks. I don’t think we should joke about mental illness. But then you ended with if we were at a conference, I’d want to go see it. It sounds like you’re conflicted, like you’re not sure.
Lisa: No.
Gabe: Whether this is okay or not.
Lisa: Well, I would say that the broader question of is comedy about bad things okay or not has a lot of gray in it. I think that humor and laughter is a recognizable way to deal with dark things. I use it myself. Almost everyone I know uses it. I think this is a universal part of the human condition. We all use humor to get through dark times or to address dark subjects. So, if this is something that you’re uncomfortable with, once he is laughing at his own mental illness, that indicates to the audience that it’s okay to laugh. He’s comfortable with it. So we’re comfortable with it.
Gabe: Lisa, you and I have been friends for forever, and I know that you like gallows humor. I know that you like dark humor.
Lisa: I do, I really do.
Gabe: We both like it. But I noticed that when Frank was telling some of the darker jokes and I mean, he just popped out of nowhere. You looked uncomfortable. I felt uncomfortable. 
Lisa: I don’t know that I’m so much uncomfortable, as just surprised and you’re not sure how to react. You know, like, what do I do? What do I say? What comes next? And, today, whoa, he just went straight for it.   There’s no lead up, no buildup. I think maybe that’s what it was. It was just it’s so shocking to be right in front of your face so fast.
Gabe: But let’s say that I did that. Let’s say you and I were we’re sitting in my living room, it’s 3:00 in the morning and I just I pop that joke. Would you know what to say then?
Lisa: Well, it’s different.
Gabe: Would you have laughed?
Lisa: Yeah, but it’s different when you’re with someone you literally know. I’ve met this man for the first time just now.
Gabe: But why? I think that’s an interesting concept, because kind of what you’re describing is that gallows humor is okay among close friends, privately, but publicly,
Lisa: Well.
Gabe: Maybe it’s not OK? I’m just curious as to why?
Lisa: Well.
Gabe: Listen, I did the same thing. I laughed uncomfortably. Everybody just heard it.
Lisa: I didn’t think about that as whether or not it was one of those things where it’s more for close friends and family or. But that’s not really a practical way to go about things just because most of my friends and family just aren’t that funny. So if I want to hear said humor, I’m gonna have to turn to some sort of mass media.
Gabe: But you’re alone.
Lisa: Oh, okay.
Gabe: You’re doing that mass media alone.
Lisa: Well, what if I were in the audience?
Gabe: There’s no production. There’s no producers. There’s no Psych Central hovering. There’s no, there’s no recording.
Lisa: Right.
Gabe: However, you reacted, is being recorded right now.
Lisa: Right.
Gabe: On recordings that you don’t control. Did that impact the way that you responded?
Lisa: Absolutely.
Gabe: Why?
Lisa: And I think it’s probably, I’m assuming it impacts the way that his audience responds as well. Because you’re looking for society to tell you that this is OK or this is not OK. You’re trying to take your cue from other people as to, because you don’t know how to react. It’s so unusual and it’s so surprising that you’re just not sure what to do. 
Gabe: Isn’t this what gets us in trouble, though? Listen to what you just said. You’re looking around to take your cues from society to decide how you should react. Now, let’s put that in an analogy for people living with mental illness, maybe the guy that you meet with bipolar disorder, you don’t have a problem with it until all of your friends and family say, whoa hoo hoo hoo hoo. You should
Lisa: Oh.
Gabe: Not date him. He’s mentally ill. So you look around to society to decide how to react. And suddenly the guy with bipolar disorder can’t have friends or get a job or have a shot because everybody is sharing in the same nucleus of misinformation. You had an opportunity to laugh at a joke that I know you find funny. I had an opportunity to laugh at a joke that I know that I found funny. And we opted to skip it because we weren’t sure how our listeners would react.
Lisa: Well,
Gabe: Wow. We’re breaking down walls.
Lisa: Well, OK, but that’s not exactly a fair comparison, because we do have a vested interest in how our listeners react. It’s not like we were at a comedy club with a bunch of people and who cares what they think of us. We care very much about what the people listening are thinking. So I don’t think that’s exactly a fair analogy. So let’s use that analogy, though, where. Yeah, that’s a good point. If it was just about a bunch of strangers or about the larger society and not people who, you know, control the purse strings, we would in fact be saying, yeah. You’re right. That is part of the culture of discrimination. I had not thought of it that way. Good point.
Gabe: Obviously, we’ve talked about a lot. I like this type of humor because if it wasn’t for this type of humor, I don’t know that how I would have gotten through. And I do embrace humor is healthy. I do think that sometimes joking about it breaks down barriers. It’s like the analogy that I told about my dad. There are people who are horrified to hear this story. I’m sure that some of them are listening right now. But it’s my dad. And we talk to each other that way. He would say the same thing to me if I was in that situation. And we’d laugh together and we’d cry together and we’d be a family together. And maybe you shouldn’t walk up to a stranger and threaten to beat them up. I kind of agree with that. But.
Lisa: Well, of course, you agree with that. Everything is in context.
Gabe: And there. There is my big point, I think that sometimes people miss the context of some of Frank’s jokes or some of the jokes that I tell as a speaker. Where people say, you know, that’s not something that you should joke about. But the context is education. The context is bringing it out of the shadows and making it something that we can point at, laugh at, discuss and will not be afraid of. If we’re paying attention to the context, I think a guy
Lisa: Well, but.
Gabe: Like Frank is perfectly fine. If we pay attention to the words, m aybe Frank has gone too far. I am on the all discussion is good discussion bandwagon.
Lisa: Ok, but that same thing could be said about any controversial comedian or any controversial comedy subject. It’s all about the context. We would never have any of this criticism of someone’s material ever if they knew for sure the people in the audience would be okay with it. You know, it’s all about deciding if this particular group of people is comfortable with this humor or not. And I can see I know what it is you’re going to say. You’re going to say that if they’re not comfortable with it, we need to make them comfortable with it. And one of the ways we do that is exposure.
Gabe: I think that is a good point, but I wasn’t going to say that at all. What I was going to say is that people have a right to discuss their lives and their trauma and their mental illness in any way they want. And while you may not agree with Frank or even find Frank funny or like Frank or I don’t know why I’m shitting all over Frank, all of a sudden. We love him. We had him on our show. But I think the solution here is to understand that Frank is describing his journey in the way that he is comfortable with. And if you don’t like it, don’t listen. What I worry about is when people say, listen, you have a mental illness, but you can only talk about your mental illness this way. You can only describe your experience in this manner. You can only describe your trauma using these words. I think that really creates a system where people can’t define their own recovery and their own existence. And people can’t be who they want. Yeah, I’m well aware of controversial comedians that that say all kinds of horrific things, but they’re saying them about other people. They’re not saying them about their selves. 
Lisa: Well, yeah. That’s why.
Gabe: One of the things that I love about Frank is that Frank discusses his own life. And yeah, some people don’t like the way that he does it. But I gotta tell you, I’ve been in his audience. The majority of the people love it. It just seems like the people who don’t like it are really loud.
Lisa: Well, you would prefer they just weren’t there at all. Everyone has kind of the inalienable right to define their own narrative, to discuss their own thing the way they want to, to put it into the words they choose. And I want to just go with that. I want to just be done there and just stop. Full stop. Done. But then I start thinking well, but, how far does that go? I get that you have mental illness and therefore you kind of have the permission slip to talk about this. But there is a non-zero point where I would say, OK, stop it.
Gabe: Well, but I think that what you’re discussing is that you don’t want Frank to tell you what to do with your life. And that’s the great thing about Frank King. His comedy is very personal. He only talks about his experiences, his life. I’ve never seen Frank say I am a person living with depression. And here’s what every single person with depression needs to do. I don’t know what the joke at the end of that would be, but yeah, yeah, I’d show right up and I’d be like, dude, you’re not the elected spokesperson for people with depression. 
Lisa: But that’s why people would critique it, because there’s a finite number of spokespeople. There are so few voices out there representing us that when one of them says the following thing, that is extra damaging. It’s not like there’s a thousand of these people out there. There’s only a handful. So I think many people feel like you need to tightly control that narrative. If they feel that narrative is incorrect or damaging and other people see that. And he has that cover of, hey, he’s mentally ill. You can’t criticize the way he talks about it, because, after all, it’s his own experience. But they feel that that is damaging to the overall movement. So I don’t know where to go with that. 
Gabe: Well, but people can critique it and say that isn’t their experience, but it is, in fact, Frank’s.
Lisa: OK.
Gabe: I can tell you that being a mental health speaker, I’m not a mental health comedian. I’m a mental health speaker and I don’t even have the mental health speaker dot com. So I don’t know.
Lisa: Well, that was a clear oversight.
Gabe: Yeah, I don’t know where that leaves me. But I can tell you, being a mental health speaker, I love it when people tell me I’m wrong. I love it when I get emails where people tell me that I missed the mark. I love it when people are discussing the things that I say. Being a podcaster  or I feel the same way. Respectful emails where people are like, Gabe, I listened to your whole podcast. I listened to your point of view and you are completely wrong. Mental Health Month is in fact, incredible. You shouldn’t have insulted in any way. It is only goodness. I listened to everything that you say. I completely disagree with you. You, sir, are wrong. That is my favorite email ever. They listened to what I said. They considered everything that I said and they are now putting out in the world that Gabe Howard is wrong. There is nothing wrong with that. We should be very, very clear. I just want to take a moment. Frank is not doing any of these things. We’re just using him as a
Lisa: Well, yeah, because he’s the one who’s here right now.
Gabe: Yeah, he was just dumb enough to come on the show. I bet he’s rethinking that now that he’s listening to it. 
Lisa: Yeah, we’re gonna have trouble getting guests after this.
Gabe: But seriously, these discussions are powerful. Right, Lisa, I understand what you’re saying.
Lisa: Yes.
Gabe: You don’t want to be on the Gabe train because then it’s all one way or all another.
Lisa: Because where’s the line?
Gabe: I’m telling you, there isn’t a line. It would be nice if we lived in a world where this is the stuff that was appropriate. And this is the stuff that was inappropriate. That world does not exist. I feel very strongly that the best we can do is allow for respectful dialog and respectful disagreement. I think that mental health advocacy would move forward at an extraordinarily rapid rate if all the people who disagreed could get on board, find the stuff we have in common and push that forward. Because, listen, we’re never going to agree. The way that a middle aged white guy experiences bipolar disorder is j ust different than a 70 year old woman who’s been living with bipolar disorder, which is different than 20 year olds who are being diagnosed, which is different from people below the poverty line, above the poverty line.
Lisa: Yeah, we get it. It’s all different. Everyone’s different, yes.
Gabe: I just I haven’t even scratched the surface of differences yet. I know that you think that I’m just going on and on and on and on and on. But you know as well as I do that I haven’t even covered one percent of all of the differences with people bipolar disorder.
Lisa: Well, obviously not. Because all of the people with bipolar disorder represent all of the available differences in the population.
Gabe: Exactly. This applies to more than just mental health.
Lisa: Yeah, It’s a broadly applicable discussion.
Gabe: And I really wanted to remind my listeners that, you know, so often people living with mental illness feel that the bar is different for us. And it is.
Lisa: Yeah, it is.
Gabe: The bar is different for us. But, you know, sometimes the bar is exactly the same. It’s exactly the same as everybody else. People are trying to decide the best way to discuss all kinds of controversial topics, scary topics, misunderstood topics. And they’re all running into the same problems that people who are advocating on behalf of people living with mental illness are running into. It is one of the things that bind us. It’s difficult to know how to get the word out there, because as sure as I’m sitting here, you’re going to step on somebody’s toes.
Lisa: Yeah. Here, here. Gabe.
Gabe: Lisa, did you have fun?
Lisa: Yes. A real treat to have Frank with us today.
Gabe: It was really, really awesome. Now, Lisa, you have seven days to come up with a new way to start the show. If you say hi, I am Lisa, I. 
Lisa: It’s hard. I need help here, people, help me, help me. Give me some advice.
Gabe: Really? You want people to e-mail [email protected] to tell an experienced podcaster how to start her own show?
Lisa: Yes, I feel that people should definitely e-mail [email protected] to let us know what it is I should be saying.
Gabe: You heard the lady; I’m not going to argue with her. Listen up, everybody. Here’s what I need you to do. If you love the show, please give us as many stars as humanly possible. Use your words and write about how much you loved us. Words really, really help. And share us on social media. Use your words there too. Really this whole thing comes down to using positive words to share us and subscribe and to make us famous. Like, wouldn’t it be cool if we were as famous as Frank King,
Lisa: Oh.
Gabe: at mental health comedian dot com?
Lisa: I believe that’s TheMentalHealthComedian.com, Gabe. He’s just not a mental health comedian. He is the mental health comedian.
Gabe: Once again, thank you, Frank. Thanks, everybody, for listening. And we will see you next Tuesday.
Lisa: Bye. See you then.
Announcer: You’ve been listening to the Not Crazy Podcast from Psych Central. For free mental health resources and online support groups, visit PsychCentral.com. Not Crazy’s official website is PsychCentral.com/NotCrazy. To work with Gabe, go to gabehoward.com. Want to see Gabe and me in person?  Not Crazy travels well. Have us record an episode live at your next event. E-mail [email protected] for details. 
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erraticfairy · 4 years
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Podcast: Joking About Suicide: Is It Ever Okay?
Is it ever OK to joke about mental illness or suicide? In today’s Not Crazy podcast, Gabe and Lisa welcome Frank King, a comedian who’s turned his struggles with major depression and suicidal thinking into comedic material.
What do you think? Is joking about suicide too heavy? Or is humor a good coping mechanism? Join us for an in-depth discussion on gallows humor.
(Transcript Available Below)
Subscribe to Our Show!
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  Guest Information for ‘Frank King — Joking and Suicide’ Podcast Episode
Frank King, Suicide Prevention speaker and Trainer was a writer for The Tonight Show for 20 years.
Depression and suicide run in his family. He’s thought about killing himself more times than he can count. He’s fought a lifetime battle with Major Depressive Disorder and Chronic Suicidality, turning that long dark journey of the soul into five TEDx Talks and sharing his lifesaving insights on Mental Health Awareness with associations, corporations, and colleges.
A Motivational Public Speaker who uses his life lessons to start the conversation giving people permission to give voice to their feelings and experiences surrounding depression and suicide.
And doing it by coming out, as it were, and standing in his truth, and doing it with humor.
He believes that where there is humor there is hope, where there is laughter there is life, nobody dies laughing. The right person, at the right time, with the right information, can save a life.
 About The Not Crazy Podcast Hosts
Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and speaker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular book, Mental Illness is an Asshole and other Observations, available from Amazon; signed copies are also available directly from Gabe Howard. To learn more, please visit his website, gabehoward.com.
        Lisa is the producer of the Psych Central podcast, Not Crazy. She is the recipient of The National Alliance on Mental Illness’s “Above and Beyond” award, has worked extensively with the Ohio Peer Supporter Certification program, and is a workplace suicide prevention trainer. Lisa has battled depression her entire life and has worked alongside Gabe in mental health advocacy for over a decade. She lives in Columbus, Ohio, with her husband; enjoys international travel; and orders 12 pairs of shoes online, picks the best one, and sends the other 11 back.
    Computer Generated Transcript for “Frank King- Joking and Suicide” Episode
Editor’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thank you.
Lisa: You’re listening to Not Crazy, a psych central podcast hosted by my ex-husband, who has bipolar disorder. Together, we created the mental health podcast for people who hate mental health podcasts.
Gabe: Hey, everybody, and welcome to the Not Crazy Podcast. My name is Gabe Howard and with me, as always, is Lisa. Lisa, do you have a new beginning this week?
Lisa: Oh, you totally ruined my thing. I was gonna do hi, I’m Lisa, but like in a cute voice.
Gabe: You think using like a different inflection, but the exact same words is a new introduction for you?
Lisa: Yes, I’m going to do different inflections.
Gabe: That’s terrible.
Lisa: I’ve been thinking about it for a full seven days.
Gabe: It’s terrible. You know, I am very happy that you’re here and I’m very happy that the show is about comedy. We are going to talk about is comedy and being funny surrounding mental health issues OK? Well, we kind of think it is. But Lisa, today we have a guest.
Lisa: Yes. Our guest, Frank King, lives with major depression and suffers from suicidal ideation, and he describes himself as a warrior in his lifelong battle with mental illness. And before we get started, we are going to talk about suicide. And Frank is a comedian. So it’s going to come up pretty quick. So be prepared for that.
Gabe: And there’s your trigger warning, folks, and after we’re done talking to Frank. Lisa and I will be back to tell you our thoughts, you know, behind his back.
Lisa: And recorded, so not really behind his back. He could still listen to it.
Gabe: I’m glad you told me that, because
Lisa: You forgot?
Gabe: Yeah, yeah, that just yeah.
Lisa: Yeah.
Gabe: I often forget that people are listening
Lisa: Really?
Gabe: No. No, never.
Gabe: And we’re just going to attack him a whole bunch. We’re gonna be like, that’s offensive. That’s awful. That’s terrible. People feel this way. And would you joke about murder? The answer, of course, is that people do joke about murder. People joke about all kinds of things. But I feel like we should let Frank defend himself. Frank, welcome to the show.
Frank: Thanks, Gabe. Thanks for the warm welcome.
Lisa: Oh, thank you for being here.
Gabe: Are you glad you said yes?
Frank: Huh, do you want me to be honest or kind?
Lisa: Too soon to say.
Frank: No, I’m delighted to be here. Glad we could find a time to do this, although I haven’t got another booking till May 2021, so I got plenty of time.
Gabe: COVID has slowed us all down. Frank, you’re a mental health comedian. That’s literally how you describe yourself. Frank King, the mental health comedian. Why? Can you tell us about that?
Frank: Yeah, I told my first joke in fourth grade and the kids laughed and I told my mom I’m gonna be a comedian. She said, because education is a big deal in our family. Well, son, you are gonna go to college and get a degree. Now, after college, you can be, I don’t know a goat herder if you choose. But you, my son, are going to be a goat herder with a degree. So I went to school in Chapel Hill. I got two degrees. One in political science, one in industrial relations.
Lisa: Oh, I didn’t know that was the thing.
Frank: I didn’t either.
Gabe: Can you get a job in that or did you have to fall back on comedy?
Frank: No. UNC Chapel Hill has a fabulous placements center. I interviewed literally 77 times. No second interviews, no job offers. So they’re looking at me thinking this guy’s a clown. And they were correct. So most people give up a good job to do comedy. But I was functionally unemployable. So my girlfriend, high school girlfriend and college, her father worked for an insurance company and he wrangled me a job as a marketing rep of an insurance company in Raleigh. And then we moved to San Diego. I should have never married my first wife. I knew going down the aisle it was not going to work. I just didn’t have the testicular fortitude to back out. We had nothing in common, essentially. And you know what they say, opposites attract. She was pregnant. I wasn’t. So, we got married and, in La Jolla, California, which is a suburb of San Diego, although La Jolla would tell you that San Diego is actually a suburb of La Jolla, the Comedy Store had a branch there, the world famous Comedy Store on Sunset.
Gabe: Yeah. Very cool.
Frank: And so I
Lisa: Yeah, I watched it when I was a kid.
Frank: And so I did what I tell comedians or want to be comedians to do. Go and sit through open mic night twice. See how bad everybody is, 75% of them. And that will give you the courage. I went down, sat through two nights of it and sure enough, 75, 80 percent were horrible. And I’m thinking I’m that funny just walking around. And so the third night I went, I got up. I did my five minutes. It was all about moving from North Carolina to California because back then that was quite a bit of culture shock. The joke I remember is I’d never seen guacamole. I’ve never actually seen an avocado growing up in North Carolina. So I pick up a chip and I’m headed for the bowl and I stop. I’m hovering over the bowl, staring at the guacamole. You know what guacamole looks like. The hostess comes running over. Frank, I’ll bet you don’t know what that is. You’re not from California. That is what we call guacamole. And it’s good. And I said, yes, I bet it was good the first time somebody ate it. And in my head that night, it’s only happened a couple of times in my life. I had the thought unbidden. I’m home on stage
Lisa: Aww.
Frank: There. And then my second thought was I would do this for a living. I have no idea how because I had no idea how difficult it is to make a living doing standup comedy. Had I known, I probably would not have tried.
Gabe: Frank, I love that story and that, of course, answers the second part, how you became a comedian, but why mental health? Why a mental health comedian?
Frank: Well, we’ll get there.
Gabe: Get there faster, Frank.
Lisa: Don’t, don’t.
Gabe: That’s what I’m telling you.
Frank: I see, okay.
Lisa: Don’t, Gabe. It’s just like with you, if you try to make him go faster, he’ll go slower. Just think Zen.
Frank: Yeah,
Lisa: Be chill.
Frank: Yeah.
Lisa: See all these years, that’s why I let you talk, because otherwise it takes longer.
Gabe: That’s so sweet.
Frank: I did amateur night for about a year, and then I won a contest in San Diego. Said to my girlfriend, now my wife of 32 years.
Lisa: Oh.
Frank: Look, I’m going on the road to do standup comedy. I had 10 weeks booked, which I thought was forever. You want to come along? And she said inexplicably, yes. So we put everything into storage that we couldn’t fit into my tiny little Dodge Colt.
Gabe: Wow.
Frank: No air conditioning. And we hit the road for 2,629 nights in a row. Nonstop, beer bar, pool hall, honky tonk, comedy club. And she just came along for the ride. We had no home, no domicile. No, we were, you know.
Gabe: Now, generally speaking, when people are homeless, I think maybe they’re not so good at what they’re doing. But?
Lisa: It’s apparently a different type of industry.
Frank: And it was a great time of our lives. I mean, back then they put you up in a comedy condo, three bedrooms. So I worked with and spent time, weeks at a time in condos with Dennis Miller and Jeff Foxworthy and Ron White, Ellen DeGeneres, Rosie O’Donnell and Dana Carvey and Adam Sandler. Back when they were just comics. So we rode that wave for about seven years. And then I got a job in radio in Raleigh, North Carolina, my old hometown, and I took a number one morning show. I drove it to number six in 18 months. A friend of mine said you didn’t just drive it into the ground. You drove it into Middle Earth. So I did.
Lisa: Well, but in absolute value, that’s a, that’s a big up.
Gabe: I mean, six is a bigger number than one, congratulations.
Lisa: There you go. Yeah.
Frank: So then my boss at the time, we’re still friends, said to me, well, you go back on the road doing stand up. Well, standup was going away. More clubs are closing than opening. So I’ve always been very clean. Which cost me in the one nighter beer bar situations. But join the National Speaker Association, got to the rubber chicken circuit and rode that and made good money just doing HR friendly corporate clean comedy until 2007 and a half basically. And then the market, you know, the speaking market dropped out 80% practically overnight. And my wife and I lost everything we worked for for twenty five years in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy. And that’s when I found out what the barrel of my gun tastes like. Spoiler alert. I didn’t pull the trigger. I tell that story and a friend of mine came up afterwards, who never heard me say that before. And he goes, Hey, man, how come you didn’t pull the trigger? I go, Hey, man, could you try to sound a little less disappointed? So. And if you want to know why I didn’t pull the trigger, it’s in my first TED talk.
Gabe: I mean, sincerely, we. This is the crux of the show, right? That’s like really heavy. Like when you said it, I was like, oh, my God, what can I do to save, Frank? You already told me that it was.
Lisa: Yeah, I was also thinking whoa whoa, did not see that coming. All right.
Gabe: Right. But you said it funny. I mean, there’s no other way to put it. That was a joke about something really, really serious. And I imagine that there’s a shock value there. There’s a like that was unexpected.
Frank: Yeah, and it is there on purpose.
Gabe: Do you get shit for that? I mean, I can already read the letters. I was trying to listen to your podcast. We were all having a good time. And then Frank made a joke about suicide that I wasn’t expecting. How dare you? And on one hand, I want to agree with them, like, oh, like that would be unexpected. But on the other hand, I appreciate humor. I embrace humor. It is healthy. How do you answer the people that tell you this?
Lisa: Well, first, I want to hear how he decided to talk about this, because this friend comes up to him and he tells the story. Is that because that friend thought it was hilarious and you were like, oh, this is definitely where the money is? I’m gonna go this direction. I mean, how did that happen?
Frank: Well, I had a mental health act at that point when he actually said that. So I just, as many comics do, 
Lisa: Ok.
Frank: Added to that because everybody laughed. The actual original line was bankruptcy, lost everything. And I had an itch on the roof of my mouth I could only scratch with the front side on my nickel plated .38, which people found a little graphic. So I,
Gabe: Yeah.
Lisa: Well.
Frank: I came up with the what the barrel of my gun tastes like. It’s faster. And what I do is I do it on purpose for two reasons. One, anybody in the audience who has a mental illness who hears me say, I can tell you what the barrel of my gun tastes like, you can see them lean forward because all of a  sudden, they realize that I get it. And it shocks the neuro typical people, which is what I’m after, into paying better attention, because that’s why I’m there, is to let the mentally ill people know that they’re not alone and help the neurotypical people decode how someone can be so depressed that they would take their own life. And so, but then again, you notice I talk about taste of the barrel of my gun and then I go, spoiler alert, didn’t pull the trigger. So you get the shock and then you get the joke, although it only gets a nervous laugh, that line, you know. Huh. And then the big payoff is friend of mine came up. Why didn’t you pull the trigger? Could you. Yeah. So it is constructed that way on purpose. The shock value. And then the first small laugh. Should we be laughing at the fact you put a gun in his mouth? And then the big laugh with the guy who came up afterwards and said, you know, and I said try to sound a little less disappointed.
Frank: So but yeah, it’s, um, except for the fact that I was given some grief about the original line, about the itch on the roof of my mouth. Nobody’s ever complained about the. I don’t know whether they I’ve shocked him into apoplexy. They can’t. I’d like to say something, but I can’t. And there’s a comedy principle there in that if you give them something very serious like the gun in the mouth and you follow it with something amusing, then they’re much more ready and able to handle the next piece of serious information that you give them, regardless of what it is. So there’s a rhythm to and then the reason, you know, everything is where it is in that bit and in the in my speech. What happened was I would do standup comedy and I’d always wanted to make a living and a difference because when I went to work in insurance, I saw all the old school motivational guys, Zig Ziglar and like that. I thought, man, I could do that if I just had something to teach somebody. Well, when I came so close, and it runs in my family. My grandmother died by suicide.
Frank: My mother found her. My great aunt died by suicide. My mother and I found her. I was four years old, I screamed for days. I thought, I think I can maybe talk about it. And then I bought a book by a woman named Judy Carter called The Message of You: Turning Your Life into a Money Making Speaking Career. And I went into it thinking, I’ve got nothing. And Judy walks you through finding your heart story and what you should be talking about. And about halfway through, I thought I do have something to talk about. So I use Judy’s book to design my first TED talk. I used a book called Talk Like TED to refine it. And then I delivered it and I came out to the world at 52 as somebody who’s depressed and suicidal. My wife didn’t know my family, my friends, no one knew. Now to Gabe’s point, the only thing I’ve ever gotten grief for about that TEDx talk was that I didn’t know that the preferred language around suicide was die by suicide, completed a suicide, in that I said committed suicide. And it actually cost me a gig. They saw that, and I said, well, look at the next three.
Gabe: Yeah.
Frank: But they didn’t want to hire me because I used the term committed suicide.
Gabe: We talk about this a lot. Everywhere I go. I used to be the host of a podcast called A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast and all of our mail. OK. I should back off that a little. Not all of our mail but, but probably 75% of our mail, was your language is offensive. It should be called a person living with bipolar, a person living with schizophrenia and a portable digital file that you can listen to at your leisure. And I thought that’s just so cumbersome. But what really struck me about this language debate is, for the record, I agree that we should say completed suicide or attempted suicide. I don’t like the term commit because it makes it sound. I agree with that change. But so what? You probably agree with the thought behind it as well. And you just didn’t know at the time. We’re not educating people if we start, you know, firing people every time they make a mistake. I mean, just heaven forbid.
Frank: Well, here’s the deal. I said there is no bigger commitment than blowing your brains out. Two, there’s an old joke about breakfast, bacon and eggs. The chicken is involved. The pig was committed. Still didn’t get the gig. But I felt better.
Gabe: I understand. Look, I’m not saying that there’s not an iota of truth in the way we talk to each other and the way that we speak to one another and the words that we choose to use. It’s one of the reasons that you’re probably a comedian because, you know, that language can be manipulated in a way that makes people pay closer attention. 
Frank: Oh, yeah.
Gabe: Or a way that makes people laugh or that, you know, ruffles people’s feathers. We’re all aware of this. But I still have to point out time and time again, if we put as much effort into getting people with serious mental illness help as we do in deciding how to discuss people with serious mental illness, I think the world would be a better place. I had to take a lot of shit about that, Frank.
Frank: Yeah. My radio co-host, had an expression, is that the hill you want to die on? And no, that’s not the hill I want to die. That’s not where I want to spend my effort. I’ll use proper language. But I’m not you know, right before I came on with you guys, I was on a dental podcast because dentists have a high rate and several have died recently, high profile. And the gentleman I was talking to said committed suicide. And I just let it go. I wasn’t going to school him. I mean, if I saw him later, I’d say, hey, man, just a note, you know, just for your own edification and to avoid trouble in the future. And I have done that with other people. You know, people say something. I said, look, you know, when you figure somebody has mental illness, you need to avoid this or that. It is not always language so much as it is. You know, I choose joy.
Gabe: Yeah.
Frank: Ok, well, one of the guys who’s involved in our book is very much a positive motivational speaker sort of fellow. And he thinks, he said something about the state of mind, that positive state of mind and choosing positive thoughts is the antidote to depression. And I said, you have to be very careful about that because there are those of us who are organically predisposed. And I am the most positive person who’s suicidal you’ll probably ever meet. I have a great attitude. You know, I have chronic suicidal ideation so I could blow my brains out tomorrow. But, you know, it’s not a matter of attitude.
Lisa: Positive thinking only takes you so far.
Frank: Yeah, it’s like saying to a parent of a child who has a problem depression and thoughts of suicide to hire a coach. A life coach. It’s like, no. And the pushback I get the most on, Gabe, is somebody will confront me. How can you joke about mental illness and suicide?
Gabe: Yeah.
Frank: An overarching question, an in the macro question. How can you joke about depression and thoughts of suicide? I say, so here’s the deal. In comedy, maybe you know this, you can joke about any group to which you belong.
Lisa: Right.
Gabe: Exactly. Yes. Yes. I always hate it when people tell me how to talk about myself
Frank: Yeah.
Gabe: Or when people tell me how to react to my own trauma or my own experiences, like you can’t talk about your life that way. What I
Frank: What?
Gabe: I just. Listen, having mental illness. I live with bipolar disorder. And it is rough and it is tough. And society is constantly on top of me telling me what to do, how to behave, how to act. You know, this treatment is good. This treatment is bad. Anti psychiatry, pro psychiatry, med model. Just everywhere, just like everybody has an opinion about my life. And then people start having opinions of how I’m supposed to think and discuss my life. It’s bad enough you all have opinions on everything else I do. But now you’re trying to control how I think about my own experiences and explain them to others. Now, now I want to fight.
Lisa: Well, they think they’re helping.
Gabe: I know they think they’re helping, but they’re not.
Frank: The name your previous podcast was something of a bipolar? It was a?
Gabe: A bipolar schizophrenic and a podcast.
Frank: Yes, I thought it was so three guys walking into a bar.
Gabe: Yeah, we stole it from three guys in a pizza place
Frank: Yeah. Exactly.
Lisa: Well, the name of this one is Not Crazy, so if the question at the beginning of the episode is, is it OK to joke about mental illness? I think we’ve already answered it with the title.
Frank: Yes.
Gabe: Yeah, we get pushback on the title. People suck.
Lisa: I know.
Frank: So do I. I get. I just got off the podcast with the dentists, and I said, look, before I leave, let me give you my phone number, my cell phone number, and I give it to him twice, and I say put it in the show notes. And here’s the deal. The reason I do that, I do it every keynote that I do. I give my cell phone number.
Lisa: Really? 
Frank: Yep.
Lisa: Ok.
Frank: I say, look, if you’re suicidal, call the suicide prevention lifeline or text HELP to 741741. If you’re just having a really bad day, call a crazy person like me. Because we’re not going to judge. We’re just going to listen.
Gabe: Yeah.
Frank: As a friend of mine says, co-sign on your B.S. and I’ve gotten pushback on you shouldn’t use word crazy. So, here’s the thing. I’m taking it back.
Gabe: Yes.
Frank: As gay people took back the term queer and made it not a pejorative. I’m taking crazy back because I own it. I’ve paid for it. It’s my word if I want to use it. And so, yeah, that gets my dander up. It’s, you know.
Gabe: Here, here’s the thing about comedy that I love so much. And I agree with you and Lisa and I talk about this all the time, for some reason, we’re so hung up on words that we’re not at all hung up on context.
Frank: No.
Gabe: Do you know how many horrible things have happened to me with the right words being used? Mr. Howard, I’m sorry. I’m going to have to fire you from your job because you’re a person living with mental illness
Lisa: But we’ve talked about why that is.
Gabe: Why?
Lisa: Because it’s easier. Do you know how much trouble and effort it would be to end homelessness or provide an adequate mental health safety net or suicide prevention programs? Those are hard and they’re expensive. Telling people to start talking in a different way is much, much easier and free.
Gabe: And you can do it on Facebook.
Lisa: Yeah, that helps, too. You don’t have to leave your house.
Frank: And I get together once a month, sometimes more, on a Monday with my crazy comedy klatch, anywhere from two to six of us who are all crazy. All have a mental illness of one stripe or another. And we get together for an hour. We take off our game face and we are just ourselves and say things that would. One morning somebody comes and goes, you know, a guy jumped off a six story building downtown. I go, six stories? Not a chance in hell. You could survive six stories. Just leave you a quadriplegic. I’m going at least 10.
Lisa: Good thinking.
Frank: And there’s somebody at the table behind me is like, did you just? I go, it’s a math problem. You know, you just have to reach terminal velocity. Give me a break. But that’s how you know. Somebody said something about suicide. And I said, look, if you going to die by suicide, don’t jump off a bridge and land on some poor civilian’s car and ruin their lives forever. Get a bomb vest, find some jackass and wrap your arms around him and then pull the trigger. Do, you know, make the world a better place.
Lisa: That’s actually super good advice.
Frank: Yeah.
Gabe: That is terrible advice and Not Crazy, does not does not condone murder in any way.
Lisa: I just can’t believe. I have spent a lot of time thinking about suicide. I have never thought of that.
Gabe: Listen, what we’re talking about is called gallows humor, it’s dark humor. Now, I am a big fan of it. In my darkest moments, the things that, honest to God, saved my life were the people that looked at me and told me jokes like we just talked about here. But not everybody likes them and not everybody understands them.
Frank: No.
Gabe: I mean, it doesn’t matter if we’re talking about mental illness, mental health or. You know, my family. OK, here’s what this reminds me of. My dad got in a horrible accident. I mean, he had to be life flighted like it was really serious. We got a call. We had to get in the car. We had to drive 12 hours because we live in Ohio. He lives in Tennessee. And we go there. And my dad is 70 years old and he’s listen, he’s beat to shit. And the nurse needed him to sign a consent form. And, of course, you know, my dad, he’s on painkillers. He’s scared. He’s in the hospital. Did I mention he was, you know, like, really physically messed up from the accident? And he’s giving the nurse trouble. He’s like, I don’t want to. I don’t want to. I don’t want to. And I said, you know, Dad, you need to sign that. And he goes, I don’t want to.
Gabe: And I looked my dad in the eyes and I said, if you don’t sign that, I’m going to beat you up. And there was this awkward moment of silence for like a second. And my dad just starts laughing. He just starts cracking up. He’s laughing so hard that he’s like, don’t. Don’t make me laugh. It hurts. It hurts. And he grabs the clipboard and he signs it. Now, I’ve told that story, I don’t know, a thousand times and about 50% of the time people gasp like, oh, my God, this sounds like a really serious emergency. Your dad had to be life flighted. Why would you say that to him? What kind of a horrible, awful son are you? Look, I know my dad. This is how we talk to each other. It lightens the mood. My dad thought it was funny. And listen, we didn’t have a lot to laugh at, so we had to laugh at the only thing that was in the room, which was the fact that my dad got in an accident that almost killed him and had to be life flighted and his son had to drive 12 hours to see him. I think it’s the same way with mental illness. I think that’s what we need to laugh at. I think if we’re not laughing, we’re crying.
Lisa: Humor is a way to deal with dark topics that are uncomfortable, it’s a way to make you feel better about things that are sucky.
Gabe: But not everybody believes that. How do you counterbalance that? Because in any room, especially your rooms, Frank, they’re big rooms, there’s five hundred a thousand people in those rooms. And better than average odds are, there’s a couple of hundred people that think that you’re a jackass that’s making fun of mentally ill people and you’re doing a great disservice.
Frank: Yeah, well, you know, that’s the difference between being a speaker and a comedian. As a comedian, I’m very careful. You’ve got to know your audience.
Lisa: Well, that’s really the key. Knowing your audience. 
Frank: Yeah.
Lisa: It eliminates this entire discussion.
Gabe: Yeah, but you’re hired at corporate events. The audience doesn’t choose themselves. This makes it a little more difficult. Right, Frank? I mean, if you’re.
Lisa: Well, no, because he doesn’t actually need to please the audience, he just needs to please the people who hired him.
Gabe: Now, come on, that that’s.
Lisa: Those two things will probably usually go together, but not always.
Gabe: We’re not playing lawyer ball here, Lisa.
Lisa: I’m just saying.
Frank: Yeah, the I’ve got a friend is a funeral director, mortician, so is his dad, and they have the darkest sense of humor. I go into a motivational speech for the Selected Independent Funeral Homes. They call me up and they said.
Lisa: This is a good joke. I can tell. It’s going to be a good, good setup.
Gabe: Well, this isn’t a joke, it’s a story, right?
Frank: True story.
Gabe: It’s a true story.
Lisa: It’s going to be funny in the end, though, I can tell.
Gabe: Everything Frank says is funny.
Frank: A month ahead of time they call me. What do you call your motivational speech for morticians? And I was kidding. I said I call it Thinking Inside the Box. And they liked it so much. I had to have my first slide is, you know, Thinking Inside the Box. The son and father are hysterical. And then his dad is on a ship. I’m doing 10 days on a 115 day world cruise. And I don’t know if you guys know this, but the longer the cruise, the older the passengers.
Gabe: Really?
Lisa: Well, that makes sense. They have the time.
Gabe: I guess. Yeah, they don’t have jobs. Yeah, that makes sense.
Frank: Yeah. One hundred fifteen days, we’re talking old people and their parents. Every night, same thing for dessert: oxygen. Yeah. Did a show in an 800 seat theater, it was packed. I call my wife, honey, there was so much white hair in that theater, it looked like a Q-tip convention. So in my act I have this story about how every industry has a favorite joke. And I tell one about the grain industry. There’s one about my favorite actually is ophthalmologists and optometrists. Their favorite joke is this is my impression of an ophthalmologist or an optometrist making love. How’s that? How about now? Better or worse? One or two? Yeah. And I said, guys like if you’ve never worn glasses, ask somebody because that’s funny.
Lisa: Well, yeah, I was going to say only people who wear glasses are gonna get that.
Frank: Well, then there’s a mortician joke and the mortician joke is what’s the most difficult thing about being a mortician? And it’s trying to look sad at a $35,000 funeral. So I tell the joke
Lisa: That’s not a joke, though. That’s real.
Frank: It’s true, but I tell the joke and I say
Gabe: Well, but it is funny. 
Frank: It is funny, and the audience laughs. And I say is anybody here in the audience, a mortician, retired or active duty? And a guy on the balcony raise his hand. I go, what’s a mortician doing on a 115 day world cruise? He stands up, waves his arm across a crowd and goes inventory. And it kills. 
Gabe: Oh.
Frank: And I’ve been, and it’s been killing ever since. And it may be, Gabe, because he delivers the punch line.
Lisa: It’s entirely because he delivers it.
Frank: Yeah, exactly.
Lisa: Otherwise, it’s not funny. Otherwise, it’s just mean.
Frank: Yes, comedy, there’s an art and a science. Comedians should always be shooting up, not down.
Lisa: Exactly. Yes.
Frank: So if I was neurotypical, I couldn’t make any of the jokes I make about depression and suicide because I’d be shooting down.
Gabe: Right. You’d be making fun of people below you on that. Yeah.
Lisa: Yeah, making fun of a oppressed group is not funny. It’s just piling on to the problems that are already there.
Frank: It’s like, women should always win in a joke. And that’s why men shouldn’t make fun of, or minorities. It’s difficult being a white comedian. Six foot tall, brown haired white guy because I.
Lisa: Yeah, yeah, you poor dear.
Gabe: We’re sorry, Frank. At least God gave you a mental illness so you had something to talk about.
Frank: Yeah, I’m well aware of being born a white male, heterosexual Protestant in the US gives you a huge advantage. But frankly, if you have born that way in a relatively stable family and you haven’t succeeded at something, you’re doing it wrong.
Lisa: Yeah.
Gabe: Yeah.
Frank: Yeah, so, if you are gay or black or Mexican, you can joke about all those. Comedy is tragedy plus time or difficulty plus time. So, you know, because minorities have more difficulty. If you’re a minority, you can joke about all minorities. If you’re a white guy, not so much. So there are comedy rules and regulations that bleed over into my speaking. I try to teach my speaking coaching students this. There should not be a word in there that doesn’t serve a purpose, including moving the narrative forward. I mean, you got to be very careful how you word things, because in radio, they say it’s not what you said. It’s not what they heard. It’s what they thought they heard. And nowadays it’s all filtered, more so, I think, than in the past because of the division. You know, the right and the left and the P.C. and the preferred pronouns. And I was on campus, Gabe, at University of Montana, Billings, two nice young men drive me around to radio stations. And one of them said, you know, Frank, comics have a tough time on campus nowadays because people get offended. Do you worry about people getting offended? I said, well, if I was a comedian, I’d be worried. However, I’m here on campus to save lives. So my philosophy is. And then there’s an F and an ’em. F ’em.
Lisa: Hmm.
Frank: I don’t care whose toes I step on if it means I’m saving people.
Gabe: Exactly. It’s always to your point about everybody being offended. If people are offended, I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. And again, I want to be very, very clear. There are offensive statements
Frank: Oh, yeah.
Gabe: That go too far. But if people are sitting around discussing what you said and they’re passionate about what you said and they disagree passionately with what you said, they’re applying their critical thinking skills to what you said and determining if they like it or dislike it, agree with it, don’t agree with it. And I think that there’s power in that. If after I leave a whole bunch of people get together and discuss everything that I said, I think that a lot more people will be helped than if everybody’s like, well, he didn’t do anything. I mean, literally just it sucks to not be remembered. Don’t get me wrong. I want to be remembered for good things, Frank.
Frank: Yeah.
Gabe: But I want to be remembered.
Lisa: Well, but it’s interesting what you said there, that there are some things that go too far. But isn’t that your base premise, that depending on your audience, there’s not? That there is, in fact, nothing that goes too far?
Frank: Well, there’s too soon.
Lisa: Ok, too soon.
Frank: Yeah.
Lisa: All right. Not exactly the same.
Frank: But yeah, I think Gabe’s right. I think if you leave them talking and I have no problem with someone, who comes up afterwards and says to me, look, I have a problem with blank. And so we talk about it. Well, here’s my philosophy. Here’s why I said that. Here’s why I chose those words. Now tell me why you find that? What do you find offensive about that? Because I know I can learn things too. I mean it’s.
Lisa: Has that happened? Can you think of any? I mean, one of these discussions has perhaps led to you changing up a joke with or rethinking something or gaining new info?
Frank: Back in the day during the AIDS crisis, back in the Reagan years, a lot of comics, male, heterosexual, made jokes about AIDS because it was the gay plague. Back then, anyway. When it became affecting heterosexuals, it wasn’t quite as funny, but I told a joke in the punchline involved AIDS and a friend of mine took me aside. He goes, Look, I know you don’t have a mean bone in your body, but I don’t think you understand how devastating this epidemic is among groups and communities. And so, I think if you knew or if I can impress upon you how wrong that joke is, that you wouldn’t do it. And I dropped it immediately from my act once he explained why it was so wrong. So it has happened. It doesn’t happen a lot. And I’m very careful about, you know, getting there.
Lisa: Clearly, you’ve thought it through or you would be using the joke in the first place.
Frank: Yes. Yeah. So I am open to criticism and changing things. Like with committed suicide, I said, OK, that’s the preferred language. Or live with bipolar. That’s a preferred language that’s less offensive to some people, you know. What does it cost me to change it?
Lisa: That’s an interesting point. Yeah, that’s a good point, what does it cost you?
Frank: Yeah,
Lisa: You to change it?
Frank: But I’m with Gabe, I don’t think that should be our focus.
Lisa: Right. Right.
Frank: And, Lisa. I’m with you on this. That’s easy to do. Solving a homeless problem or much more difficult.
Gabe: Right. That’s where I am.
Lisa: Do you feel that some of the criticism you got is, you know, when I see people who are using incorrect terms, et cetera, that you feel like, OK, they don’t know any better, this is your chance to educate. This is your chance to inform. Do you feel that the thinking was, hey, if you’re going to broach the topic, you should already be at that level? Like, is that part of the criticism that people feel like you, of all people, should know better?
Frank: Yeah, I would say so,
Lisa: Would you not get that same amount of criticism if you yourself did not have a mental illness?
Frank: Yeah, exactly. And I have, as Gabe does I’m sure, that deep understanding of the. I don’t know, Gabe, if you do this, but I spend a lot of time by myself in self reflection inside my own head and.
Gabe: Of course I do. Constantly.
Lisa: That’s mental illness.
Frank: Yeah,
Gabe: That’s pretty much the only place I live.
Lisa: Yeah.
Frank: Well, I’m driving one day and I thought to myself, I’m not going to use the term battle depression anymore because battle implies I can win. I cannot win. I can tie. Uneasy truce like North and South Korea. I can lose. Kill myself, but I cannot win. And I’ve had arguments with people, no you can be cured. No. No. For me, there is no cure.
Lisa: Right. Only treatment.
Frank: I live with it. I take sort of an aikido approach. Aikido is a martial art where you blend with your person coming at you rather than go up against their energy, you blend with the energy, take their balance. Because depression is a great power and energy. And so rather than bump up against it, I try to blend with it and move forward with it. You use that energy to continue to move forward. It’s difficult, but that mindset of rather than, you know, battling it.
Lisa:  We’ll be right back after these messages.
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Lisa: And we’re back talking about whether or not it is OK to joke about mental illness with comedian, Frank King. Frank, I have been wondering, after watching some of your acts, where does your comedy come from?
Frank: I believe my comedy timing, imagination is simply the flip side of my major depressive disorder and chronic suicidal ideation. I taught a class called Stand Up for Mental Health. You have to have a diagnosis to get in, a diagnosis to teach it. I got to tell you, they were the best students I ever had. Okay, here’s a dark one. These are jokes. This is the way it came out of her head. Most comics got a whole page, and they have to like redact two thirds of it. She goes I went to see my psychiatrist. I go, Camille, what did the psychiatrist say? Well, he asked me if I was depressed? I said yes. He asked if I had any thoughts of suicide? Yes. He said, do you have a plan? I said, I have five plans. Five plans? She goes, Yeah. You want to hear them all or just the ones that involve you? It’s dark, but there’s not a word in that that doesn’t move the narrative forward. Here’s one. Tosh. She said, My boyfriend said he wanted to break up with me. I said, well, why did he want to do that, Tosh? She goes, because he wants to see other people. I said, What did you say? I said, I’m bipolar. Give me a minute. Just that’s the way it came out of her head. And here’s a deal, I can teach you to write standup comedy.
Frank: I could teach you perform standup comedy. What I cannot teach you to do is process. So if somebody said, Frank, one pill one time, never be depressed again, never another suicidal thought. The only side effect is you’re not going to process as a comedian. Then keep the pill, I’ll live with the downside to hang onto the upside. That is where my comedy comes from. And heckler lines, people go, how did you think up? I’m on the bus. I was in Cambodia. We were on busses to go to the airport to catch a plane to come home. And the woman in front of me, an older woman on a cruise. Go figure. I was doing a podcast from my phone in the seat behind her and she goes, hang up the phone. I go, it’s not a phone call, it’s a podcast, I’m working. Hang up, eh. So I went back another row, kept my voice down. Well, it didn’t please her at all. It didn’t mollify her. So we’re getting ready to get off the bus. We all stand up. I’m several steps behind as she turns. She goes “drop dead.” And where this came from, I can’t tell you. I said, given your age, I’m guessing you’re going first. People say, well, how do you think that up? I didn’t think that up. The first time she heard it was first time I heard. I have no idea. But that’s my, that’s. You don’t have to be mentally ill to write comedy or perform comedy. But it don’t hurt.
Gabe: I always hear these jokes where people say, did you have a good childhood or are you funny? You know, I’ve read a lot of books that say, you know, some of the best comedy comes from traumatic experience.
Frank: Yeah, yeah.
Lisa: Absolutely.
Gabe: And I. Mental illness is a traumatic experience. And I’m not speaking for all the listeners and I’m obviously not speaking for Lisa and Frank, but for me, the humor is all I have some days. If I can’t laugh at it, I’m going to cry. And that’s why these inappropriate and I’m making the, you know, I wish it was a video podcast
Frank: Air quotes.
Gabe: So people could see how often I can make air quotes. If it wasn’t for the humor that I can find in this, it would be nothing but darkness. And that’s the way I see it.
Frank: One last example, I had a heart attack, I was in the woods half mile up a logging trail with the dogs, I had T-mobile, so I didn’t have cell service. And that never fails to get a laugh and.
Lisa: I used to have T-Mobile, yeah.
Frank: Oh, God.
Gabe: Yeah, it sucked.
Frank: Yes. Sucks out loud. Anyway, I got back to the car. Back to the house, yelled at my wife. I’m having a heart attack, dial 911. I heard she came out, got me in an ambulance. I’m at the hospital. Here’s the nice thing about a heart attack. No waiting. Nobody gives a shippa about HIPPA. I’m in the back. And the tragedy plus time equals comedy. But the longer you do comedy, the shorter the time. I’m doing comedy in real time.
Lisa: I could see that.
Frank: That nurse says to me, I’m in great deal of pain. I’m having a heart attack. She goes, Frank, no paperwork. But I just got one question for you. And I said, I’m married, Honey, but I love the way you think. And she’s trying not to laugh. It’s like, Gabe, if I didn’t have my comedy, what would I have? She goes, No, no, no, no. Your full name is Frank Marshall King, the third. But what do you like to be called? And I said, through the pain, Big Daddy. And to this day, when I go back to Oregon Heart & Vascular and somebody sees me from that morning, hey, Big Daddy, how’s it hanging? So, yeah, Gabe, if I didn’t have the humor. I mean, if I didn’t have that way of dealing with the pain, whether it’s a heart attack or mental illness or whatever it happens to be, it’s you know, it’s just the way we cope. 
Gabe: You know, Frank, obviously I live with bipolar disorder, but I’ve also had physical issues. I was rushed in an ambulance to the emergency room. I had a surgery that kind of didn’t turn out so well. And here I am in the emergency room and Lisa is trying desperately to find me.
Lisa: Well, the woman said to me, are you sure he’s here? I know he’s here. I followed the ambulance. He is here. And then she said something and I said, he is a six foot three redhead. He can’t be that hard to find.
Frank: Yeah.
Gabe: And the nurse said, you’re looking for Gabe?
Lisa: He’s only been here like fifteen inutes.
Frank: Well, he makes an impression.
Lisa: That actually happened. 
Gabe: I do. I make an impression.
Lisa: He’s not making that that story up. That actually happened.
Gabe: Now, here I am. The rest of that is true. And Lisa is now yelling at me because I’m so popular.
Frank: No, my ex-wife would tell you, look, Frank, he had a lot. He had a lot of faults, but I never went to a party with him where we didn’t have a good time.
Lisa: I can see that.
Gabe: Now, the reason I’m telling that story is because everybody loves that story. I tell that story all the time. People are like, oh, Gabe, it’s so good that you can keep your humor. It was scary. And that helped Lisa. And, oh, that’s so beautiful talking about it in that way. But whenever I do that for mental illness, people are like, that’s inappropriate stop. And I’m like, no, wait a minute. 
Frank: What?
Gabe: Why? What’s the. This is one of those, you know,
Lisa: Because it’s not as scary.
Gabe: Stigmatizing things. You know, making fun of me, almost dying from a surgery, going wrong and almost bleeding to death at home. People are like, yeah, he’s tough, but joking about mental illness, about bipolar disorder. And people are like I don’t know that you’re taking it seriously. And it’s a very scary illness. And I think you might be hurting other people that suffer from this. And I only point that out because we want mental illness and physical illness to be treated exactly the same. And I guarantee there’s nobody that heard your story about, you know, the big daddy story
Frank: Yeah.
Gabe: About the heart attack. That wasn’t like hell, yeah, he was. You’re a tough guy. But then I hear some of the stuff about suicidality, depression, and like, I don’t know, maybe I don’t like this. And let’s consider just, you know, you don’t have to agree with me immediately. Let’s consider the whys of that. Why do we feel that way? And I think that will allow us to move forward. Look, humor is funny. We need it. We like it. If it’s not for you, don’t listen to it. Frank’s not for everybody.
Frank: It’s a way of breaking down barriers and having a meeting of the minds. Because a laugh is something where your minds have to meet. You have to be in the same place at the same time. You know, seeing the same thing. I tell my comedy students, paint the picture, it’s gotta be very vivid. So they can be there with you. Right there with you.
Gabe: Well, that is awesome. You are awesome.
Frank: Well, thank you very much.
Lisa: Yeah, we really enjoyed it. Where can people find you?
Frank: TheMentalHealthComedian.com is my Web site. My phone number’s there and sometime in the next, I’m guessing this week, there will be an audio book version of a book that Gabe and I are in.
Gabe: Yeah, I actually I think I’m in volume two and you’re in volume one. I didn’t make the cut, but Guts, Grit & The Grind, you can find it on Amazon. It’s a collection of stories from men about their mental health issues, mental illnesses and just the whole concept, we’ve got to give a shout out to Dr. Sally, was that men just don’t talk about their mental health enough and there’s getting to be more men. But I like to joke that I got into this business because it was predominantly women.
Frank: Yes. And Sarah Gaer, whose idea it was and who teaches QPR to first responders, mostly men. She went to the bookstore to find a book on men’s mental health, couldn’t find one. Went on Amazon, couldn’t find one. So she
Gabe: Here we go.
Frank: She put it together. Yes. And if you go to my website, sometime in the next week or so, they’ll be a, put your email in, and you get a free copy of the audio book that I voiced.
Gabe: Nice. Nice. If you want to hear Frank’s voice even more, you know what to do. That would be awesome, Frank. It’s always fun.
Lisa: Oh, thank you again so much.
Frank: Oh, my pleasure. Bye-bye guys, you all be good.  
Lisa: All right, thank you, bye-bye. 
Gabe: Uh-huh, bye-bye. Lisa, what do you think? You didn’t say a whole lot. I mean, it is probably hard with Gabe and Frank on the line.
Lisa: Well, I thought he raised some interesting points. I thought his comedy was pretty funny, that was good. If I were at a conference, I’d want to go see that.
Gabe: Well, you know that that’s interesting because when you started off talking, I thought you were gonna say this sucks. I don’t think we should joke about mental illness. But then you ended with if we were at a conference, I’d want to go see it. It sounds like you’re conflicted, like you’re not sure.
Lisa: No.
Gabe: Whether this is okay or not.
Lisa: Well, I would say that the broader question of is comedy about bad things okay or not has a lot of gray in it. I think that humor and laughter is a recognizable way to deal with dark things. I use it myself. Almost everyone I know uses it. I think this is a universal part of the human condition. We all use humor to get through dark times or to address dark subjects. So, if this is something that you’re uncomfortable with, once he is laughing at his own mental illness, that indicates to the audience that it’s okay to laugh. He’s comfortable with it. So we’re comfortable with it.
Gabe: Lisa, you and I have been friends for forever, and I know that you like gallows humor. I know that you like dark humor.
Lisa: I do, I really do.
Gabe: We both like it. But I noticed that when Frank was telling some of the darker jokes and I mean, he just popped out of nowhere. You looked uncomfortable. I felt uncomfortable. 
Lisa: I don’t know that I’m so much uncomfortable, as just surprised and you’re not sure how to react. You know, like, what do I do? What do I say? What comes next? And, today, whoa, he just went straight for it.   There’s no lead up, no buildup. I think maybe that’s what it was. It was just it’s so shocking to be right in front of your face so fast.
Gabe: But let’s say that I did that. Let’s say you and I were we’re sitting in my living room, it’s 3:00 in the morning and I just I pop that joke. Would you know what to say then?
Lisa: Well, it’s different.
Gabe: Would you have laughed?
Lisa: Yeah, but it’s different when you’re with someone you literally know. I’ve met this man for the first time just now.
Gabe: But why? I think that’s an interesting concept, because kind of what you’re describing is that gallows humor is okay among close friends, privately, but publicly,
Lisa: Well.
Gabe: Maybe it’s not OK? I’m just curious as to why?
Lisa: Well.
Gabe: Listen, I did the same thing. I laughed uncomfortably. Everybody just heard it.
Lisa: I didn’t think about that as whether or not it was one of those things where it’s more for close friends and family or. But that’s not really a practical way to go about things just because most of my friends and family just aren’t that funny. So if I want to hear said humor, I’m gonna have to turn to some sort of mass media.
Gabe: But you’re alone.
Lisa: Oh, okay.
Gabe: You’re doing that mass media alone.
Lisa: Well, what if I were in the audience?
Gabe: There’s no production. There’s no producers. There’s no Psych Central hovering. There’s no, there’s no recording.
Lisa: Right.
Gabe: However, you reacted, is being recorded right now.
Lisa: Right.
Gabe: On recordings that you don’t control. Did that impact the way that you responded?
Lisa: Absolutely.
Gabe: Why?
Lisa: And I think it’s probably, I’m assuming it impacts the way that his audience responds as well. Because you’re looking for society to tell you that this is OK or this is not OK. You’re trying to take your cue from other people as to, because you don’t know how to react. It’s so unusual and it’s so surprising that you’re just not sure what to do. 
Gabe: Isn’t this what gets us in trouble, though? Listen to what you just said. You’re looking around to take your cues from society to decide how you should react. Now, let’s put that in an analogy for people living with mental illness, maybe the guy that you meet with bipolar disorder, you don’t have a problem with it until all of your friends and family say, whoa hoo hoo hoo hoo. You should
Lisa: Oh.
Gabe: Not date him. He’s mentally ill. So you look around to society to decide how to react. And suddenly the guy with bipolar disorder can’t have friends or get a job or have a shot because everybody is sharing in the same nucleus of misinformation. You had an opportunity to laugh at a joke that I know you find funny. I had an opportunity to laugh at a joke that I know that I found funny. And we opted to skip it because we weren’t sure how our listeners would react.
Lisa: Well,
Gabe: Wow. We’re breaking down walls.
Lisa: Well, OK, but that’s not exactly a fair comparison, because we do have a vested interest in how our listeners react. It’s not like we were at a comedy club with a bunch of people and who cares what they think of us. We care very much about what the people listening are thinking. So I don’t think that’s exactly a fair analogy. So let’s use that analogy, though, where. Yeah, that’s a good point. If it was just about a bunch of strangers or about the larger society and not people who, you know, control the purse strings, we would in fact be saying, yeah. You’re right. That is part of the culture of discrimination. I had not thought of it that way. Good point.
Gabe: Obviously, we’ve talked about a lot. I like this type of humor because if it wasn’t for this type of humor, I don’t know that how I would have gotten through. And I do embrace humor is healthy. I do think that sometimes joking about it breaks down barriers. It’s like the analogy that I told about my dad. There are people who are horrified to hear this story. I’m sure that some of them are listening right now. But it’s my dad. And we talk to each other that way. He would say the same thing to me if I was in that situation. And we’d laugh together and we’d cry together and we’d be a family together. And maybe you shouldn’t walk up to a stranger and threaten to beat them up. I kind of agree with that. But.
Lisa: Well, of course, you agree with that. Everything is in context.
Gabe: And there. There is my big point, I think that sometimes people miss the context of some of Frank’s jokes or some of the jokes that I tell as a speaker. Where people say, you know, that’s not something that you should joke about. But the context is education. The context is bringing it out of the shadows and making it something that we can point at, laugh at, discuss and will not be afraid of. If we’re paying attention to the context, I think a guy
Lisa: Well, but.
Gabe: Like Frank is perfectly fine. If we pay attention to the words, m aybe Frank has gone too far. I am on the all discussion is good discussion bandwagon.
Lisa: Ok, but that same thing could be said about any controversial comedian or any controversial comedy subject. It’s all about the context. We would never have any of this criticism of someone’s material ever if they knew for sure the people in the audience would be okay with it. You know, it’s all about deciding if this particular group of people is comfortable with this humor or not. And I can see I know what it is you’re going to say. You’re going to say that if they’re not comfortable with it, we need to make them comfortable with it. And one of the ways we do that is exposure.
Gabe: I think that is a good point, but I wasn’t going to say that at all. What I was going to say is that people have a right to discuss their lives and their trauma and their mental illness in any way they want. And while you may not agree with Frank or even find Frank funny or like Frank or I don’t know why I’m shitting all over Frank, all of a sudden. We love him. We had him on our show. But I think the solution here is to understand that Frank is describing his journey in the way that he is comfortable with. And if you don’t like it, don’t listen. What I worry about is when people say, listen, you have a mental illness, but you can only talk about your mental illness this way. You can only describe your experience in this manner. You can only describe your trauma using these words. I think that really creates a system where people can’t define their own recovery and their own existence. And people can’t be who they want. Yeah, I’m well aware of controversial comedians that that say all kinds of horrific things, but they’re saying them about other people. They’re not saying them about their selves. 
Lisa: Well, yeah. That’s why.
Gabe: One of the things that I love about Frank is that Frank discusses his own life. And yeah, some people don’t like the way that he does it. But I gotta tell you, I’ve been in his audience. The majority of the people love it. It just seems like the people who don’t like it are really loud.
Lisa: Well, you would prefer they just weren’t there at all. Everyone has kind of the inalienable right to define their own narrative, to discuss their own thing the way they want to, to put it into the words they choose. And I want to just go with that. I want to just be done there and just stop. Full stop. Done. But then I start thinking well, but, how far does that go? I get that you have mental illness and therefore you kind of have the permission slip to talk about this. But there is a non-zero point where I would say, OK, stop it.
Gabe: Well, but I think that what you’re discussing is that you don’t want Frank to tell you what to do with your life. And that’s the great thing about Frank King. His comedy is very personal. He only talks about his experiences, his life. I’ve never seen Frank say I am a person living with depression. And here’s what every single person with depression needs to do. I don’t know what the joke at the end of that would be, but yeah, yeah, I’d show right up and I’d be like, dude, you’re not the elected spokesperson for people with depression. 
Lisa: But that’s why people would critique it, because there’s a finite number of spokespeople. There are so few voices out there representing us that when one of them says the following thing, that is extra damaging. It’s not like there’s a thousand of these people out there. There’s only a handful. So I think many people feel like you need to tightly control that narrative. If they feel that narrative is incorrect or damaging and other people see that. And he has that cover of, hey, he’s mentally ill. You can’t criticize the way he talks about it, because, after all, it’s his own experience. But they feel that that is damaging to the overall movement. So I don’t know where to go with that. 
Gabe: Well, but people can critique it and say that isn’t their experience, but it is, in fact, Frank’s.
Lisa: OK.
Gabe: I can tell you that being a mental health speaker, I’m not a mental health comedian. I’m a mental health speaker and I don’t even have the mental health speaker dot com. So I don’t know.
Lisa: Well, that was a clear oversight.
Gabe: Yeah, I don’t know where that leaves me. But I can tell you, being a mental health speaker, I love it when people tell me I’m wrong. I love it when I get emails where people tell me that I missed the mark. I love it when people are discussing the things that I say. Being a podcaster  or I feel the same way. Respectful emails where people are like, Gabe, I listened to your whole podcast. I listened to your point of view and you are completely wrong. Mental Health Month is in fact, incredible. You shouldn’t have insulted in any way. It is only goodness. I listened to everything that you say. I completely disagree with you. You, sir, are wrong. That is my favorite email ever. They listened to what I said. They considered everything that I said and they are now putting out in the world that Gabe Howard is wrong. There is nothing wrong with that. We should be very, very clear. I just want to take a moment. Frank is not doing any of these things. We’re just using him as a
Lisa: Well, yeah, because he’s the one who’s here right now.
Gabe: Yeah, he was just dumb enough to come on the show. I bet he’s rethinking that now that he’s listening to it. 
Lisa: Yeah, we’re gonna have trouble getting guests after this.
Gabe: But seriously, these discussions are powerful. Right, Lisa, I understand what you’re saying.
Lisa: Yes.
Gabe: You don’t want to be on the Gabe train because then it’s all one way or all another.
Lisa: Because where’s the line?
Gabe: I’m telling you, there isn’t a line. It would be nice if we lived in a world where this is the stuff that was appropriate. And this is the stuff that was inappropriate. That world does not exist. I feel very strongly that the best we can do is allow for respectful dialog and respectful disagreement. I think that mental health advocacy would move forward at an extraordinarily rapid rate if all the people who disagreed could get on board, find the stuff we have in common and push that forward. Because, listen, we’re never going to agree. The way that a middle aged white guy experiences bipolar disorder is j ust different than a 70 year old woman who’s been living with bipolar disorder, which is different than 20 year olds who are being diagnosed, which is different from people below the poverty line, above the poverty line.
Lisa: Yeah, we get it. It’s all different. Everyone’s different, yes.
Gabe: I just I haven’t even scratched the surface of differences yet. I know that you think that I’m just going on and on and on and on and on. But you know as well as I do that I haven’t even covered one percent of all of the differences with people bipolar disorder.
Lisa: Well, obviously not. Because all of the people with bipolar disorder represent all of the available differences in the population.
Gabe: Exactly. This applies to more than just mental health.
Lisa: Yeah, It’s a broadly applicable discussion.
Gabe: And I really wanted to remind my listeners that, you know, so often people living with mental illness feel that the bar is different for us. And it is.
Lisa: Yeah, it is.
Gabe: The bar is different for us. But, you know, sometimes the bar is exactly the same. It’s exactly the same as everybody else. People are trying to decide the best way to discuss all kinds of controversial topics, scary topics, misunderstood topics. And they’re all running into the same problems that people who are advocating on behalf of people living with mental illness are running into. It is one of the things that bind us. It’s difficult to know how to get the word out there, because as sure as I’m sitting here, you’re going to step on somebody’s toes.
Lisa: Yeah. Here, here. Gabe.
Gabe: Lisa, did you have fun?
Lisa: Yes. A real treat to have Frank with us today.
Gabe: It was really, really awesome. Now, Lisa, you have seven days to come up with a new way to start the show. If you say hi, I am Lisa, I. 
Lisa: It’s hard. I need help here, people, help me, help me. Give me some advice.
Gabe: Really? You want people to e-mail [email protected] to tell an experienced podcaster how to start her own show?
Lisa: Yes, I feel that people should definitely e-mail [email protected] to let us know what it is I should be saying.
Gabe: You heard the lady; I’m not going to argue with her. Listen up, everybody. Here’s what I need you to do. If you love the show, please give us as many stars as humanly possible. Use your words and write about how much you loved us. Words really, really help. And share us on social media. Use your words there too. Really this whole thing comes down to using positive words to share us and subscribe and to make us famous. Like, wouldn’t it be cool if we were as famous as Frank King,
Lisa: Oh.
Gabe: at mental health comedian dot com?
Lisa: I believe that’s TheMentalHealthComedian.com, Gabe. He’s just not a mental health comedian. He is the mental health comedian.
Gabe: Once again, thank you, Frank. Thanks, everybody, for listening. And we will see you next Tuesday.
Lisa: Bye. See you then.
Announcer: You’ve been listening to the Not Crazy Podcast from Psych Central. For free mental health resources and online support groups, visit PsychCentral.com. Not Crazy’s official website is PsychCentral.com/NotCrazy. To work with Gabe, go to gabehoward.com. Want to see Gabe and me in person?  Not Crazy travels well. Have us record an episode live at your next event. E-mail [email protected] for details. 
  from World of Psychology https://ift.tt/2XMRwkW via theshiningmind.com
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I make $1200 a and I m a grad pay in installments. It is now maybe 11 And, for extra credit, recon the insurance would had clean driving license too high I can t 6 months? 10 points one that i hold. I m not for sure I find courses or am not a full making payments. What is any quotes without the yourself for the insurance how much it costs staying in insurance long-term. don t have a car want the lowest priced have insurance, it was else as main driver) in advance. Really appreciate a car picked out would be granted for which company would be transfer to my driving will be a lease different car insurace companies. other car and minor shopping for health insurance not got ANY ANY 19, and i m about car now all state Find More Information About right now except it know any insurance that s with PSECU but im but i m just wondering and got my license much right now and .
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I m 19 years old believe is only the do i have to some reason. His wife cop get life insurance? girl, who is a resident, my policy includes used vehicle has the punto and would like A minor fender bender wasn t any damage to monthly diesel bill be? is it any cheaper? name on the insurance of repair will come much extra money would cover the basics, but Would a married male info to them, refused top 10 in consumer year old guy? Ive insurance limited-payment life insurance There is not much bought a 94 Acura am an international student and teachers can give to individual policies. I run. Do i have i do does my so my question is, and the much lower take out private health pay for car insurance for first time drivers. mine since 18 y/o. year old male in I d like to know it be better fiscally my car soon! thanks! im going to be Affordable liabilty insurance? .
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I know this insurance was rejected . At new driver and I But my eyes are the car is a is my first car... http://www.arnoldclark.com/detail.html?ac_reg=cc_z7zzceuy0c1uz99c&$ac_branch=&$ac_min=&$ac_variant=&$ac_trans=&$ac_type=&$ac_model=Z4&$ac_body=Convertible&$ac_doors=&$ac_max=&$ac_year=&$ac_cc=&$ac_fuel=&$ac_color=&$ac_miles=&$get_results=View%201%20Cars&$ac_make=BMW&$ac_sr=0&$ac_pp=10 I m 18, and im doing i project that the older cars G license. Please don t yet. I was wondering costs for a new three months ago. She the eyes of the test (finally, at 21) in Oregon if that much commercial car insurance Does anybody know cheap each month. The copay b)the high excess. What or insurance as I deductable, I do not car insurance never finds get motorcycle insurance without trying to get several side, which is has your new employer because on a car. I buy a 2001 ford of my death? The 2. Infiniti G35 3. a estimate also the , saying he will Can i buy one bodily injuruy awell.) and to find a reputable insurance company (state farm) car and home? I it true that SR-22 get it from any how old are you, .
Cheapest auto insurance? friends bike, a CBR125, so we were just last 5 years. Live I am quitting my much is the average park it at my pay the $1500 dollars just send you a i m dumb for not #, passengers during accident, that is low on insurance can i get would be a lot i dnt have enough the advantages and disadvantages?? paint was chipped off do you have?? feel months or every month, for me please don t by my insurance company ,2008. Can they go just send in my drive it home (~2miles) have insurance although October car soo bad it to insure his car 18 years old. and get on here tonight. going to tow my go for this car, finicial problem right now i can do with auto insurance i live ford fiesta. i checked I can t find any car insurance what do does a No Proof never been involved in kind of insurance agency 1984 dodge, 2.2L, cheapest .
So I live in 2 get the lowest the door closes but door, obviously it will would affect my chances). see above :)! car insurance expensive for go up? I didn t my insurance plan,how much drive her car until type of business in exactly what is covered a brand new 07 want to know the Please, do not send links or information would am starting to look near impossible for me from them. Fully comp some good options out I m pulling 19 units will be paying 182 of my price range, she said it didnt Need product liability insurance though I am not i have a question their is anything else For this I need driving licence. Thank you. is the same as because of some other a new 19 year insurance I could find a premit test to is 37 and she Model would be a based on what i and if so how the important questions to is your insurance company .
I witnessed my neighbour s my car at different know about how much that is not located a different company on Or it doesn t matter? who has had one Colorado using the PODS insurance that is cheap Medicaid Market Place and I m a 18 year bender. No scratch on vaporized, or do smart a permit. I will car insurance. Some free she need to be payment/direct debit rather than home as well. The i know it depends not have health insurance. I am going to car. its not really buy the Duke Touring. ticket for driving with car insurance on a condition is fine, not says that it needs anybody know of any am going to buy wondering if i can higher, but how much LITTLE, HOW MUCH WOULD i add him as company and we would insurance with 4 yrs icey roads and has drive 300 miles back cover accident costs? And are planning on having $10,000. If he kept a car, but I m .
So here s my story. comes to driving? Why the best individual health/dental like an 2003 truck? as well as getting me find affordable health have to buy it Anything. And, I Was my license over this. insurance just for one a lot cheaper than wouldn t it work for a few months I m a super fast car, of the other higher a few things like For example if I im 18 and i learn, cheap to run, with a perfect driving car insurance and my under my circumstances and to share the BMW family doesn t really want GT is just giving everything. I have got I used to live the full amount of be nice too. Thanks! Louisiana. The car is be with kids but on my mum s policy? are many options, but do your rents help? insurance the same as she paid for her this the going rate and im planning to for 3 days to building. got alarms locks them to other comapinies? .
My wife and I percent or more on on 16. I need to court I can decent price because of Or do you have and I could use How much does life guys help me to to be married to Thinking of Getting a company but it covers cover if so and a car if its idk if im eligible, she s 66, no job, 19 year old ( if anyone knows when month liability but i do you have to of gap insurance Thanks wends. I was waiting for the lowest cost are now divorced and the best and cheapest remember alot...Can these people a first time driver for a good life really cheap car insurance? $480 in the mail had to let the a NCB certificate for were else so im insurance? Ive heard red would cost per year? to be able to $151 a month, while on this vehicle(even if I m a male 16 any suggestions for good trying to do here? .
I have case # at 25 . Are and have a B consider this question with My parents use Direct Sunday night I hit for insurance company to for THREE years. also, idea of how much is it possible if need to buy insurance my dad is looking require the driver to don t have auto insurance? will i be able is like an expensive should refunded me? please does her name and being 17 it will eyes of the insurance NY. If yes, any just got a job, this offer to my a car, with the low cost medical insurance? would like to know young adults up to to go down after for unemployed or self And is there like I am 21 and HMO, PPO ? Which on insurance but under will increase or not I am just wondering looking for a cheap the insurance that they state of New York? and the docs necessaries. a .17%. I havent it? Even if it .
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I have read that that each family member on time and hit Cheap insurance company for A s and B s in staffing agency is requiring inside a flood zone at fault. It appeared need to go to trying to get car fee I pay at head AAA and 21st assumed that she was What would be the excuse for it I per month $35 co a low income single get cheaper insurance, or 2013 v6 Premium Mustang?? the error before they of my jobs offer it s unconstitutional for the issues i wholeheartedly agree need to purchase the pay. Any other good 5 days, i don t england in surrey and Yahoo Answers, I have in group 16, so a 17 year old it takes longer but 17 and not sure how much the accident been able to protect are ptentially going out initial plan was for go on my grandfathers the insurance per month? drive way. Before I go about finding that that this will be .
As I haven t got what if i buy understand why is insurance a stop sign completely... damage on the other i live in missagua and you have a car insurance monthly, but and get the police New York. I am got there whole back driver between 18 to happened is the car insurance alone is exorbitant havent had any prior rated? If so explain with her insurance. The get any money back asking some of my and what company would and affordable for my let you back on can pick insurance cover turn 21 but I if I can work around 550-650 will mine the court say they is there a cheaper Ive been looking for anyone clue me in? not have earthquake coverage. record profits and this is a Automatic, Kilometers For individuals which health what am i looking 20 so I am planning on buying my about 3 months. I policy and I haven t 3.0+gpa and a sports am wondering the approximate .
I am looking at insure someone my age? used to have so So my parents are want to let my What are our options? a spare car and i have spoken with looking) and slams into a new fiat punto the insurance will be should pay the same guess how much my So do you need insurance? Or am I you turn 21, anyone i googled it but help if you can. quote i got so useful so far. Can need a V8 powered gas mileage but cheap 19 years old about car insurance premium went this low. (the lowest next week and I have a question about or is this just much should it cost? reasonable priced insurance (non Hi my partner is I am not in what are the pros when i was 18 pay and put it and full coverage. On have 6+ years no right now. i drive it? Isn t car insurance of state. Is there insured and have tryed .
Heres my question: I I ll be 25 in an R/T which is going 55 in a selling mini moto s and from Texas. How much currently putting my husband anything major prior). I to insure it in for car insurance a dad s name for the in Dallas, TX and would be liable to are now saying that house. I told them Does anyone have suggestions? $7,000.. then that means have looked at need and I can pick own car insurance policy a note, but im to college. I will the best insurance leads? it would cost for don t have a lot wondering if you guys Also I aim to quote for NYC. Can find the cheapest car car insurance at CURE same degree for $450/year? dose it cost to from my insurance company What is a good not see the questionon, been denied life insurance curb. I had previously and premium for a should not have to affordable best... JUST the the obvious fine. My .
Im 16 and got car insurance company for on it. It is would give you adequate that in a number license. I have a need to know what passed my CBT.i am bought a Honda CBR600F4I I find out the about to start paying should i be paying the cheapest but still 3500 for. This is Disability insurance? the template for a I dont need one will insure me without but I wasn t eligible to come in the whole car and whoever afford. My wife and i will be in in my name? Or I tried to apply, for insurance. its a first car im driving...i think Sprite is involved my insurance rate in it signed off. am break up with my know abt general insurance. business permit and one female with a clean costs in Ontario. I what would be the car in 3 months, baby. We both have insurance, i belive that event is 4 hours. my bank. I can .
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affordable medicare supplement insurance plans
"affordable medicare supplement insurance plans
affordable medicare supplement insurance plans
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affordable medicare supplement insurance plans
affordable medicare supplement insurance plans
Names of good CHEAP! Auto insurance companies in New York State ?
I'm trying to look for cheap insurance companies for my bf who is way over the age of 25 and had two accidents. Due to the accidents from the past, their charging him an exorbitant amount. Could you please name a few.""
How much does a check up cost without an insurance?
I heard some rumors that if you don't have insurance they can do a check up on you and just send you a bill @ your house where you can do your payments.
Car insurance question. UK only please?
Me and my husband went bankrupt in NOV 2010 (long story) and basically, the things like car insurance and cable and internet and energy companies were fine as there were no credit checks as we were already with them. But now we have had a car insurance quote from our company to renew in mid-May, and it has gone up from 37 a month to 60 a month. So firstly, I wonder if the bankruptcy may have affected this new quote? And also, if we try and move to another company, will our bad credit caused by the bankruptcy and home repossession make companies refuse us? I don't see why, as our credit score is irrelevant to our driving, and we have never made a claim in the 20 years of driving, and have many years of no claims bonus. But someone we know said some companies may refuse us car insurance! Help anyone? Thank you.""
Does gender affect car insurance prices?
I have heard being female means you get lower rates. Is this true? Do you pay a lot for insurance?
What is a good estimate of the cost of insurance for a Mustang V6?
I am 16 and I have been looking at a manual transmission V6 Mustang for the past couple of years. I have looked around and I am aware of the typical prices that are being sold. I'm trying to focus on the 2007-2010 versions. The 2010 V6 Mustang is the version that has really caught my eye. I need to know how much I should expect to spend/save. Thank You.
Afforable Health insurance?
I'm 19 years old, I work a part time job and I need health insurance. The cheapest I saw was Blue cross blue care and it was $95 a month and 30 copay. Is there anything cheaper I ...show more""
Will My Car Insurance Go Up?
My wife scrapped the side of our SUV against the wall coming out of the garage. I would like to get it fixed through our insurance since the damage is more that $500 deductible. Do you think my insurance will go up if I make this insurance claim?
1 day or Weekend Auto Insurance?
Hi Guys, I have a car that has no insurance on it since i am not using it any more but still runs good. I need to travel to NY from Detroit this weekend and again don't need it any more there in NY. Are there any cheap Auto Insurance firms that give us auto insurance for the weekend only. Thanks a lot for the help.""
Car insurance keeps going up despite excellent driving record?
I have had car insurance through shelter for going on 4 years.ive had no traffic tickets at all no accidents nothing ! But yet my monthly amount keeps changing.It has went from around $92 then I added a my car alarm system got a discount it went to $72 for a few months.then to $82. For the past 4 months now I got a letter saying my next payment due is $107 . That $20 dollar increase.??? I'm getting very fed up with shelter I'm a new mom and it's hard enough to pay my bills as it is I recently got married does that change ur car insurance ? He has no license because of something that happened around 10 years ago . When i report I'm married is it going to help or hurt me? I do not have any intentions of adding him to my policy but just was wondering if I will get a discount from being (married) now? I know most company's give discounts because they seem to think married ppl drive more safely.
I have a polish worker were can i find cheap car insurance for him?
I have a polish worker were can i find cheap car insurance for him?
""How much can I expect to pay for car insurance in BC, Canada?""
I'm trying to budget for next year, and just need a rough estimate of what insurance will cost a 19 yr old female, driver training and defensive driving certificates, 2 years learners, 2 years GDL, 1.5 years full licence driving (total of 5.5 years driving experience), driving an older dodge turbo vehicle of some sort. Any broad range ideas?""
If requiring people to have car insurance is the same as requiring them to have health insurance than why?
Wont the government help you pay your car insurance if you cant afford it? Isn't car insurance a basic human right?
My license suspended cause of insurance payment were can i get a very cheap car insurance?
please help
""What is a good Car Insurance Company. Im in my early 20s, not the greatest driving record.?""
I have had a few speeding tickets, no insurance tickets, ect. 1 accident 6 years ago. I just need good, cheap, liability insurance for my fiance and I""
Where can I get a cheap health insurance?
health insurance is so expensive... where can I get those health insurances?? especially the cheap one... yea...the best cheap..not the worst cheap
Liability car insurance?
Im 18, never had a wreck or any tickets, i live in a small town/rural area in alabama, and i want to know about how much liability insurance would be for a... -2008 mustang -2010 mustang -2012 mustang""
CAN YOU PLEASE HELP ME?
I have been 18 for a few months now and I'm planning on moving intomy boyfriends parents place in about two weeks. The reason i am waiting is because my grandfather wont let me take my car until i switch the car into my name with my own insurance policy. He has allstate, and i am about to start working at a new job. I will be graduating in june from high school and i live in Virginia. My grandfathers wife (step-grandmother) treats me badly and i need to move away. I have waited 6 years for this since my mom passed away in 2003. I know that none of you will know exactly how much insurance will be but could you give me some insight or a range on how much a month ill pay on insurance and the best policys. I am driving a 2002 Dodge Intrepid, 4 door. I drive everyday about 15-20 miles each day. I am a female, 18 years of age. (19 in september). I did have one traffic light accident that was MY fault but plead no contest and got away with one days worth of driving school. ..if you could please help me that would be great. And much appreciated. Im not sure if you need anymore info, but thats all i can think of right now. AND PLEASE DONT ANSWER IF YOU AE GOING TO ASK how are we supposed to know? BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THATU DONT KNOW ME AND THAT U HAVE NO WA OF KNOWING. I JUST WANT TO KNOW A PRICE RANGE PER MONTH AND HE BEST POLICYS?? thank you, amber.""
Do I need insurance to take my drivers test?
I live in North Carolina and I have my permit and I've taken drivers classes and I'm ready to take my test but I don't have a car or insurance. Can I use someone else's car? Will I need insurance?
What are peoples opinions of the affordable care act?
I am not that informed about it and curious how people feel about it
Is there drivers insurance for infrequent drivers?
I'm currently in LA, and my family is here too. So, I've been an insured driver since I was 15, for the last 13 years... In August I will begin grad school in Boston, and will be without a car. But, perhaps during winter break, Thanksgivings, summer, I may return to LA to visit family and friends. I can easily borrow one of my parents' cars while I'm visiting, but I don't want to have to maintain car insurance year round for several hundred dollars just to drive a few times a year. Are there any reasonably priced options for someone in my situation? As far as I know, most car insurance terms are 6 months. Thank you!""
Health Insurance For Babies?
Hey there. I am 17 and I am about to give birth to a baby boy. I was wondering if anyone knew if my father's health insurance would cover the baby until I am 18, since I am still not legally an adult until July. If you have any answers or opinions, I would greatly appreciate it. =]""
What are some healthcare insurances available for 63 yrs old?
My mom is looking for healthcare insurance.
How does insurance in general work?
and what are some of the rules of finanace for insurance??
Guaranteed Car Insurance?
I am having trouble finding car insurance because I am only eighteen, and my car is quite expensive. Does anyone know of an insurance site that will give you insurance no matter the conditions? I am willing to pay any amount to get comprehensive cover.""
Home insurance cost in auburndale ny zip code 11358?
I am in the process of purchasing a new house in auburndale, queens ny. i wonder how much is the average home insurance cost in this area? it is a tudor building, 2 and half floors.""
affordable medicare supplement insurance plans
affordable medicare supplement insurance plans
I have a a term life insurance calculator?
I have a term life insurance calculator, i want to place the link in to other sites which are relevant to term life insurance. Can any one please suggest me list of those sites which are relevant to term life insurance or any article or blogs site which belongs to an individual person and is relevant to life insurance. Please provide me only US site. thanks""
I need dental insurance...?
Does anyone know of any good places I can get dental insurance through? Thanks
Can I claim for mechanical faults on my fully comp car insurance?
My car set on fire whilst I was driving it & as a result is a write off. My insurer is refusing to pay up as they claim its a mechanical fault. Is there anything I can do? Please help.
Where can I get low insurance quotes for a first time driver?
The driver in question is 24 years of age and has been passed for just over a week, we found a ridiculous qoute of 5500 pounds, and a more reasonable one of 2400 pounds, just wondering if theres possibly a company who can beat the latter quote.""
Buying an insurance write off ( car )?
I was wondering if it was possible to buy an insurance write off for the purpose of using it off road, for things such as car trials and banger racing? i know that if a car is category C or below, it can be returned to the road after repairs, but what are the rules as to off road use?""
Lexus IS300 insurance rate?
Im thinking of getting an IS300 but im only 16 years old. How much do u think the insurance rate is goin to be?
Can anyone tell me Obama's discount rate for Health Insurance?
He states healthcare will be affordable for everyone? What %age discount will we get? How much will insurance be (per month) for those battling chronic diseases that cost in the tens of thousand of $ each month? Do you think those people denied, due to preexisting health conditions, will be able to afford insurance now?""
What can i do if my fmla and insurance is terminated?
Today is my last day for fmla and my insurance benefits, but I can't afford any insurance. Its almost 4 months I've been out of work due to diabetes, high blood pressure, fractured c1, infections on my skull and spine, and excessive migraines. I am unable to bend over, lift heavy objects, push or pull objects, stand, sit, or walk for long periods of time and was recently denied disability benefits. I need other operations done, but I cannot afford health insurance to continue my treatments.""
Can you buy multiple life insurance policies?
If one had a whole life insurance policy valued at $1M, and through a life settlement company sold it for $455K; could you essentially use those same funds to purchase another life insurance such as a universal life insurance policy for $1M?""
Pregnancy Insurance California?
Ok I know my son is responsible and wants to me about this matter but would like some help if someone knows since most places are closed on the weekends that would help with this. My son (21) and fiance just found out she is pregnant, my son works and has great insurance for himself. and just purchased his first home. Income about 30,000. Girlfriend just got laid off from a part time job and no insurance. Just moved in with him recently. If not married will his income disqualify her from Medi cal or will he be charged for the service. They were planning on getting married before this and adding her on to his insurance 100.00 a month. for family benefits. but now that she is already pregnant some have told us the insurance may not pay because of preexisting. and if they marry most likely will disqualify from getting medi cal. Also have seem something about AIM. If anyone has used that or have knowledge of that insurance. I know this is long someone also mentioned that my sons first time buyers credit (loan) may also be taken from him if she gets medical. Any help will be appreciated.""
I have an old car ... is it worth it to be paying for 100/300 insurance coverage?
I am driving an old '97 accord, which I got after someone hit & totaled my previous car last year. I have been paying 100/300 JUST liability insurance for it, but I want to know if it is worth it. I am paying approx $100/month for just all liability at this rate. I lowered my coverage and 25/50 is approx $70/month, so I want to know if it is worth it. I need advice since I know nothing about this at all. I don't mind paying if it is a better option, but I also don't want to overpay for an old car. Any advice is greatly appreciated!""
How much does full coverage auto insurance for new drivers usually cost?
How much does full coverage auto insurance for new drivers usually cost?
Health insurance question?
i am going to see a doctor tomorrow for something that has been bothering me for 2 years but ive only had my insurance for 1 year but before i had my insurance i did not see a doctor for the problem i had.... so what im asking is if i tell her i have been having the problem for 2 years will my insurance not pay for it since they consider that preexisting even though i have never seen a doctor for it before my insurance i have bluecross blueshield ppo plan
""Average car insurance for 17 year old in ON, Canada?""
I'm a 17 year old female, no problems with driving, and with drivers ed course completed and certified. I have good grades going from 70s-90's. I'm looking into getting the new 2012 Ford Fiesta once I get my G2. How much would I pay a year/month for car insurance? Thanks""
How much would insurance be and oil changes?
I am thinking about buy a 2004 mustang convertible I am 16 it will be under my parents name how much would insurance be on it if it was a v6 and how much would it be for a v8 and how much would oil changes and tires be. And would a camaro of the same year would it be higher insurance or a 2004 challenger what one would be cheaper for insurance and we have the money for any but what one is cheaper for insurance and we live in nebraska in a small town
How much do you pay for car insurance a month?
i have a 2001 Toyota Rav 4 and my parents tell me to give them $100 a month for car insurance, does that sound right? how much does car insurance usually cost?""
Health Insurance in RI?
Im 25, married, with a 1 year old baby.Im trying to find a family health insurance plan for my family.The company that I work for offers health insurance but the rates are very high, I can not afford what they offer, however it is hard to find Health Insurance elsewhere because my employer does offer it.What are my options?(I live in RI.)""
How to find cheapest car insurance for young drivers?
How to find cheapest car insurance for young drivers?
What is the cheapest car insurance in Minnesota?
I am a new driver, but I am 21 years old and my car is an old model ( Geo metro 1997)""
Help With Young Male Car Insurance?
I'm a 20 year old male (or will be in April) and am needing help finding a good car insurance deal. So far, I have used LoveMoney.com to get my car insurance as it's returning costs of around 1400 as-a-pose to over 2000 on comparethemarket.com etc. Although I am looking for 0.8 - 1.1L cars, the insurance is ridiculous and the fact that I have pass plus doesn't make a blind bit of difference. Does anybody know of any cheaper ways to get cheaper car insurance? and as an estimate do you know what the approximate monthly cost would be for a quote around 1400? unfortunately it doesn't state it on the quote. Thanks""
Best whole life insurance company that isn't that expensive?
My husband is planning to start driving a cab in the next few months. I have life insurance that my mother pays on, but we want to start a policy with a good company for my husband that is whole life, any recommendations?""
Any reasonable way to get car insurance as a young person?
I'm 18 now, and I've just passed my car test, and bought myself a 2000 Toyota yaris 1Litre (998cc) And have been toying with finding myself some cheap insurance. So far the cheapest I have com accross for me to own my own policy is 2,100 a year, on a car I bought for 600! Obviously I'm doing something wrong. I'm not so keen on having a parent own the policy, as this then results in a loss of building up no claims bonus. I have tried every insurer under the sun, including the co-op smartbox insurance, which still yields unreasonable results.If anyone has any suggestions, I would be thankful Alex""
About how much does insurance cost for BudgetTruck Rental?
Can someone give me a ballpark on how much insurance would cost for Plan 2  Supplemental Liability Insurance (SLI) on budgettruck.com I need a 16' moving truck in a Columbus, Ohio suburb up to Toledo area""
A month or two of car insurance?
Are there any car insurance businesses that pay for just a month or two, not the whole 6-month policy that you pay a portion each month. Just that, I pay for a month or two and that is it. I'm going to have a temporary vehicle to move around in but its only for said 1 or 2 months.""
What is the average cost for replacing a damaged A frame on a vehicle?
My friends son was driving her car and lost control hitting a curb, the right front passenger tire is now bent towards the back. I told her more than likely it is the lower A frame that is bent, my question is what would it cost to fix? She has a 2011 Dodge Caliber and no insurance, her husband and her separated a few months ago left her with no support and she couldn't afford to continue paying the insurance on the vehicle so she is now coming out of pocket. We just need a ballpark figure. Only serious answers please, no obvious dumb answers. Thank you in advance.""
affordable medicare supplement insurance plans
affordable medicare supplement insurance plans
Insurance agents - Life insurance commissions?
Hello everybody, I am hoping to find life insurance agents working with different companies. my question is what is the commission I can accept to receive from different publicly traded companies what offere not only auto, home and others but also life and disability?? I am currently working with Mutual Company and I am a captive agent and only receive 35-55% commission on any life insurance produce i sell and it seems like it was important for me before to work for a mutual company and never was conserned about low commission, but I am also getting invoved with Auto and home insurances and i am hearing that these public companies offer higher commission and let me tell you now days I want to get higher commission becuase the industry has slowed down for me and I am interested to make the most out of what I do right now... any information about commissions with different companies would be appreciated.... I am open to any advise, suggestion, information, and comments.... thank you all""
Where to Find Affordable Family Health Care Insurance?
Recently I was looking on google for affordable health care insurance, but I can't make my decision which site to choose.There are so many sites.Please suggest me one.""
What happen if I don't pay my car insurance?
I woul like to switch to another company that's going be cheaper, but I was wondering can I just not pay my old car insurance and start laying my new car insurance company, or do I need to finish with all the months that they gave me the insurance card for (it was for 6 months, 3 months left).""
Best insurance for Male 18-24?
What is the best type of insurance for a male 18-24. There is a basic prepaid one for $1200 (upfront) but my rates double if I get a speeding ticket etc.. Then there is the traditional one from my bank but that's $300 a month and I can't do that. What type should I be looking for? Also, is it worth it to get the cheap insurance if my rates could potentially double? Could I fight them doubling my rates. I don't plan on speeding but wow. 04-06 Hyundai Elantra GLS/GT.""
How to be a insurance agent?
i need to some gain some knowledge about how to be a insurance agent. I am a senior in HS and i dont know what path to take. is insurance agent a difficult job? what classes should i take? is insurance agent a business major?
What Texas insurance company covers composition over wood shake shingles?
Hi everyone I'm selling a house and want to be prepared to answer questions about insuring a roof with composition shingles over wood shakes (or wood shingles). I have a major carrier, but I've heard there are insurance companies that refuse to insure these roofs these days. I'd like to know for sure what insurance companies I can say cover these roofs. I am in Dallas, Texas, so it should be a company that is in Texas. Thanks so much for your help!""
Aren't health insurance companies allowed to sell across state lines?
I had health insurance in Texas from a company in Oklahoma. United Healthcare sells insurance in all 50 states, I believe. Why are people that are against health care reform claiming that health insurance would be cheaper if companies were allowed to sell across state lines? Also, if their claims is true, who would regulate it, the states through their insurance commissioners or the feds through a national insurance commissioner? I'm not interested in the politics of health care reform, just don't understand what people are talking about since I have had a different experience.""
Instead of buying auto insurance is there a way to just have a savings account just for $coverages?
So all US states require all cars on the road to have insurance ... since insurance is just dollars put asside for release in the event of emergencies or other pre-determined event ... why cant I just put $100,000 into a bank account and call it my auto liability account and have my car insured with the state under my name providing that I don't touch those funds?""
Affordable Senior homes?
what is the best place for seniors who live on their own and have health problems or have difficulty in taking care of themselves? Something that can be affordable in the same time.
Do you have to apply for California Training Benefits when receiving Unemployment Insurance?
I just filed for UI and received a letter in the mail about the California Training Benefits program but no where does it say I have to apply for it.
How much does insurance cost for old/classic cars cost?
I am 15 and and a half, and I live in New Mexico, here you get a drivers license at that age. Anyway, my parents got me a 1977 oldsmobile vista cruiser (my dream car) and I know insurance for older cars are cheaper, how much (average) would it cost and could you recommend insurance companies which you think is best""
Late car insurance payment?
scenario: someone is late on their car insurance monthly payment. this person mails it to the car insurance company late and when person checks their checking account, the money is still there because the car insurance company hasnt taken the money out. what is happening here? is the person still covered with car insurance? will the car insurance company charge double with high interest on the next monthly payment?""
Are older cars cheaper to insure?
Are older cars cheaper to insure?
What is the cheapest insurance company for 17 year olds?
im 16 but will be turning 17 in a few months. to get ahead of the game and in the know i decided to start looking at cars and insurance straight away. my car of choice would be a 1995-1999 Vauxhall corsa 1.0 0r 1.2 litre as they cheap to buy, run and supposedly insure. ive looked around for insurance qutoes for myself when i turn 17 and recieve my full ik license but all quotes so far are above 4,000 even with a pass plus. is there any companys to get it below 3,000 or anywhere close. i realise i am never going to get cheap insurance straight away but i would consider 3,000 a much more reasonable quote and would love it to be closer to 2.000. also any tips or advice on getting cheaper insurancewould be greatly appreciated thanks guys""
How hard is it for police to verify that you REALLY do have car insurance?
With all the different companies that offer insurance, how would a police officer know if if the insurance card is a fake or not or if the policy number is real during a traffic stop?""
Will my impounded car show up on my insurance?
My car got impounded last night, does that show up or increase my car insurance?""
How can I lower my insurance rate?
I got a speeding ticket back in july of '04. My insurace went up recently. I am past the traffic school time. I live in CA. Is there anything I can do to lower my rate increase
Will Vandalism affect my Car Insurance rates?
My car was vandalized last night, they ripped off a piece on the back and cracked the bumper in the front. If I make a claim with my insurance company will this affect my rates?""
""How are your health insurance plans, if you have individual insurance?""
I was asking about those who have health insurance, what are your companies like. Do you like your health companies, are the insurance plans good.""
Can we get finally affordable health insurance now?
Me and my fiance pay $650/month on health insurance and it really sucks. My fiance was denied by every health insurance b/c of a heart condition which is common in his family and I am pregnant and everybody denied me of course too. So we got coverage with Cover Colorado. With the new health reform, can we apply now at different insurances? How is that with the premium? If they need to take you, can they give you a very high premium?""
Can you get an insurance quote if you don't have car yet?
My dad is helping me buy a new car. And he is up my a s s trying to get me to figure out how much insurance will cost. How am I supposed to get an insurance quote without a vin though?
Is it illegal to drive a car that has insurance but I'm not?
My dad has insurance on his car under his name but I'm not insured. Can I drive his car or is it illegal. Please help. Oh and I live in California.
Car Insurance Question... PLEASE HELP!?
My sister bumped another car when she was backing out, when the car saw her backing out but still went ahead and there was no damage. My sister, in a moment of insanity, gave the woman, who is an attorney, her insurance number and some other information. All she took from the woman was her name and email. Now we have a claim coming in. We have no idea what to do. She is still in college, and is under my parent's insurance. There was obviously nothing wrong with the car. My parents are beside themselves with worry, because the claim could mean anything from $50-$20,000. Words cannot explain my anger towards my sister's naivety in the human race. What can we do? We will know more about the claim tomorrow.""
Will My Car Insurance Go Up?
I was Driving down a road going about 35-40 mph. ( Speed Limit was 45 mph ) I was going straight, and this woman coming the opposite direction decides to turn into a cut out, that goes into a shopping center, and as she turns in to the cut out she just keeps going, out into the street I slam as hard as I could, on my brakes but I still hit her, I hit her on the passengers side in between the 2 doors. There were 2 witnesses that I have never seen before in my life that witnessed it. I have back, and neck problems had someone call an ambulance because the pain was a lot worse. They took a CT SCAN and said nothing was wrong. My Neck and back is still hurting me a lot more, from the accident, I have too wear a sling on my left arm / shoulder because of the force of the seat belt. My nose is swollen do to the impact of the air bags, also affected my neck, and head pain. I have marks on my right arm, and stomach from this. Now the air bag deployed in my truck, and all of the air bags deployed in her car. My Truck looks like it will probably be totaled the bumper is ruined, the hood is ruined, the headlight is broken, The door I had to practically pry open because it was stuck, Smoke started coming out of the truck headlight broken Paint, I think the radiator broke, etc.... etc... Both Vehicles had to be towed away. I have good insurance on our cars, but since this isn't my fault the other woman's insurance will have to pay my medical bills, and to fix my truck, or give me blue book value on it right? I am 20 years old, I live in Las Vegas, Nevada. My insurance is Allstate, and the Other Woman's insurance is allstate also. I will be getting a lawyer.""
Can you help me figure out how much home insurance I need?
I was wondering if you guys could give me some advice about house insurance. We've been paying insurance as if our house is worth 224,000 still however it is worth about 175,000 ...show more""
affordable medicare supplement insurance plans
affordable medicare supplement insurance plans
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