#or are just flat-out bad by any standard but still enjoyable in a campy way

[grimark]

i like bad special effects. meaning not just old and outdated (which in a lot of cases were actually groundbreaking for their time, but i digress) but also low-budget or rushed or just kinda corny and poorly executed. i think it adds charm where a lot of more polished productions are lacking.

[peanutdracolich]

Peanut Dracolich Watches Horror: Ranking Things

So, since we’re halfway through the month I decided I’d vaguely rank things in some way. Of course I must think first on how do I rank them? Personal enjoyment? Fear? Some belief in quality outside of that?

If I were to rank the films upon their artistic merit, the feeling that they are something more than just a film, the work of artifice and dark sorcery The Vampyr wins, it is a piece of art.

If I were to rank the films upon their sheer fear value, the way they cause terror and leave a lingering fear it would be The Descent; it is a thing of terror.

If I were to rank the films upon their sheer enjoyment value, the amount I simply enjoyed their spell and the act of watching it would be Dr Terror's House of Horrors (with Alien Covenant a fairly close second), it was a quite enjoyable film.

I am going to try and rank them as Horror films, though, and that ends up more vague. Fear is a part of horror, but it's not all, the ability to provoke thought is good but it too is far from all. Of course what a horror film is has changed over the years; Frankenstein and The Descent seem to hold very little in common save elements of madness; they seek to invoke very different effects upon the watcher. Still this is my personal ranking and I will rank them as I see fit. (Ranking itself is below the cut)

1)      The Vampyr (32)

2)      The Descent (05)

3)      Dr Terror's House of Horrors (65)

4)      Prince of Darkness (87)

5)      Alien Covenant (17)

6)      The Omen (76)

7)      Poltergeist (82)

8)      Frankenstein (31)

9)      Friday the 13th Part 2 (81)

10)   The 7 Golden Vampires (74)

11)   Child's Play  (88)

12)   Saw (04)

13)   Alien 3 (92)

14)   Uzumaki (00)

So some thoughts…

The Vampyre is a shadow play of darkness and madness, which feels like watching a fever dream. Whether it's the gripping coffin scene, the dance of shadows, or just the general ambience of nightmare, it reaches beyond feelings like fear or intellectual curiosity, and reaches the sublime as the spell wraps your mind in its dark magic. It makes me start spewing pretentious word salad, and I will admit parts of it left me confused as to what was actually going on, yet it felt effective for this and not despite this. It plays upon the purest fears of horror; the unknown and death.

The Descent is brutally effective and gruesome horror. It is a film that leaves one scared. Despite monsters that are pretty much fantasy RPG goblins it uses primal fears of the dark and the enclosed space to good effect, and the nightmare that is the descent into madness adds to the effect. It's nice to see some badass female characters, and I'm sure one could find symbolism and deeper themes in it, but the intensity of the film draws you in and it'd be a waste of the spell to hunt for such things (at least on a first viewing).

Dr Terror's House of Horror is really 6 stories, each a charming one in its own right, making good use of its cast. Each story plays on different fears and elements of horror, and they're nice little tales. If I had to choose a single 'fear' within it, it'd be fear of the future.

Prince of Darkness is a cheesy, campy, 80s film. It's good and enjoyable, but it's no masterpiece by any means. It is a horror movie. I do not expect a masterpiece from it. I expect a fun film, some scares, some atmosphere, and it does deliver these things. Plus a free porn stash as a bonus! In earnest, though, it has a nice little plot that mixes metaphysics and science to create a dose of horror, and a score that is quite effectively used (as one expects from Carpenter after Halloween and The Thing). It is limited, though, by the overall quality of the plot, and the 80s cheesy feel of the film (which I enjoy) limits its horror. Bonus points for Alice Cooper as an honestly creepy homeless dude.

Alien Covenant is… It's a film with a lot of built in baggage as a prequel to Alien, a sequel to Prometheus, and part of the same franchise as Aliens. It has its strengths, the xenomorph while not terrifying as in Alien is at least scary once more, breaking part of the effect of Aliens by showing that it is not as weak and easily handled as that film made them out to be, an effective movie monster worth a dozen crawlers (it's a good thing that an individual crawler wasn't supposed to be scary). For that alone I could love the film, because the xenomorph is probably my all-time favorite movie monster and it is a shame that it has been neutered thus for so long. That said the film is too new to go into my full thoughts of the pros and cons of it without going 'spoilers, spoilers', I'm fairly sure things about it have probably been spoiled (I actually actively avoided them here but still managed to pick up a few) but still… So umm… Spoilers spoilers. The biggest flaw to me is simply the ear homing black goo. It's stupid and should feel dumb. The next would be their decision to fly into the storm, but that's a standard horror thing (I do not blame them for the detour to check out the world, but they showed they had time leeway they could have waited a few days for the storm to clear so they could check it out safely). However its true sin is my favorite thing in the movie so… The xenomorph is a side dish of horror. David, man's creation, is the main dish as a charismatic psychopath in the lineage of Norman Bates. I found this a chance for some stirring scenes between the two androids, some things that make me want to rewatch and really think about creator and created, while also finding the reveal of his laboratory delightfully macabre and fascinating. I enjoyed David as a villain, with Michael Fassbender bringing some excellent charisma to the role along with that of Walter. Daniels, as a replacement Ripley, was disappointing because she failed to fill the original's shoes (much like Elizabeth in Prometheus). It was fun, though, to see the Frankensteinian tale taken onto multiple levels at once (Prometheus tried this but Prometheus was just bad), and I enjoyed the two flavors of horror being mixed together to create something different (those flavors being 'the monster' and 'the psycho'. Oh and what we're supposed to fear in Covenant is the magical homing powers of black goo… or more the power of creation and the creation's power. David is the creation of man, but the creation with power to destroy his creators; the Engineers are destroyed by their own creation at the hand of their other creation's creation; David himself is shocked and momentarily afraid when the xenomorph threatens the camera, unlike the neomorph it is not a thing he can actually control. Fear the creation which surpasses the creator. Spoiler time ends here if you care. All in all Covenant may in ways be my favorite film on the list, and does scary better than many above it, but in the end my enjoyment of it is not as a horror film but at least equal parts science fiction (Alien conversely is like 3 to 1 horror and sci fi) and so judged as a Horror film I must deduct points.

The Omen was… I still hold to what I said at the time. It was just above middling in all things. The film was enjoyable, it worked as horror, and I might eventually rewatch it. Still it was not one to leave a long impact. I watched it. I enjoyed it. It in no way changed my fears or lack thereof about the Antichrist.

Poltergeist was one of the hardest films to place. I watched it with intestinal pain and 2 hours of pausing so it was a horrible watching condition. Still the film helped lighten the mood, and ok in a lot of ways I'm judging it from prior viewings. It has, for its time, nice effects, some scary moments (I think bodily reactions were off at the time), and an enjoyable story. Still I'd feel uncomfortable calling it good, and the films below it all fall under varying levels of 'enjoyable but' or 'I didn't like it'.

Frankenstein… A horror classic and along with Poltergeist the hardest film on this list to place. I feel like I am committing some sin by saying… I didn't like it that much. It had its charm, and its place, but I was not marvelously impressed. Vampyr, made a year later, was a much more terrifying tale (even if it confused me), and it lacks the gripping questions of the original book; what is the relation of Creator and Created and what ought it to be, what is man's right to create. It is in fact probably the worst Frankenstein film I've watched this month as far as invoking the original book's message and effect, and the others are not a Frankenstein film and Young Frankenstein. That said the movie does has its charm, was enjoyable, and honestly Boris Karloff lurching awkwardly is more menacing and terrifying than anything in the films that follow (save perhaps Alien 3). Still its placement may be more to do with its place in movie history than its actual quality and I do try to avoid that, just as I try to avoid judging special effects based upon later standards, or clichés either. Still I feel it was a better movie than the ones below it, even if some played to my personal tastes more.

Friday the 13th Part 2 was a film that was so bad it's good. I think. It had me laughing. Perhaps it's simply I am not that scared of farmers. If I was as afraid of farmers as I am afraid of chickens, cellars, well done music, green jello, TVs, the dark, or any of various other things it might have been scary. That is if they had remembered that the flat of a blade isn't a cutting tool, not to directly rub my nose in the fact that your plot is a giant plot hole, and… The film was trying at least. Still the change to the hockey mask was a good move on Jason's part. Honestly, though, rated purely for enjoyment this beat Frankenstein.

The Seven Golden Vampires: I enjoyed this film almost the exact same as Ft13 part 2. I think though that for those who enjoy what Ft13 part 2 is offering it has a higher maximum enjoyment factor. The Seven Golden Vampires promised a B movie about kung fu vampires with Peter Cushing and it delivered a B movie about Kung Fu vampires with Peter Cushing. It was not a good film. It was not a gloriously bad film which Ft13 part 2 was, but it was fun enough for what it was. Still only one of these was actually trying to be a horror film in more than the lightest trappings, and I'd say I enjoyed this film almost as much as anyone, whereas Ft13 part 2 was less my type of film.

Child's Play: So here we get into films I did not enjoy (with the exception of Alien 3 but that's just because xenomorph). Child's Play was scarier than either of the films before it. It was a better movie than Ft13 part 2 except that in being better it was worse. Ft13 part 2 was fun to laugh at (not with but at), and enjoyable because it was bad and it was supposed to be scary and it was failing. Child's Play had elements of that, but was just a bit too good to hit that sweet spot. I can see why someone might like it, I like bad vampire movies, but it doesn't hit me well, and I can't say it's good even when I try and step back from personal preferences.

Saw: I feel guilty for not liking this film. Partially because I worry about prejudice against it due to reputation. But the thing is it didn't live up to its reputation at all in any respect or either of its disparate reputations. It was not the gruesome and bile fascination fueled torture porn I dreaded. It was not the cerebral murder room horror with well-played twists I had heard it portrayed as. It was a poorly done murder room horror with twists that played out more as sudden bouts of too dumb to live than anything else. It invited me, nay demanded that I think about it, and ultimately it didn't hold up to focused attention or thought. Even to a person who loves murder rooms I can't suggest it, because it was not ultimately a good one. It might be the first for all I know (it's older than most I know of) but that doesn't save it from not being well executed.

Alien 3: Unlike Friday the 13th Part 2 this ought to have been my type of film and honestly… It was. The film is docked points for only being horror for about half the film, though, and docked points for being too long. It dragged on past its welcome. It was ultimately less enjoyable than Ft13 part 2 and only worth watching because it is an Alien film. So while I enjoyed it more than Child's Play or Saw, I have to place it below them both. I enjoyed it despite its lack of quality due to Ripley and the xenomorph; it does not stand at all on its own merits.

Uzumaki: In the manga we are presented with a Lovecraftian horror, a thing that resonated on a deep level with spirals, that was on a spiritual level a spiral which pulled in, sucking and devouring like a whirlpool. It was a series of stories all thematically connected to spirals which were scary not because Ooooh spiral but because they were creepy things of horror. The film had none of that. The side stories which made the story were gutted for the main story which itself wasn't developed leaving an empty shell. The film was bad. Read the manga.

 Before I finish let's stop and see what we're supposed to be afraid of in each film. In Vampyr we're supposed to be afraid of shadows… That's supposed to be a joke but it's honest as well, more than the vampiress it's the shadows which are scary the dance of real and unreal. In the Descent we're supposed to be afraid of the dark… Well ok it's more about being closed in the dark the descent into the cave representative of Sarah's descent into madness, the darkness and closing in of the mind as one recoils from trauma mirrored by the darkness and madness of the fight against the crawlers, the dark is what we fear but the film is more than that. Darn it this is supposed to be me joking and not being serious. Dr Terror's House of Horrors is fear of Tarot Cards… for they represent the future and the danger that fate may hold for us and that one fate all men cannot avoid. Prince of Darkness is fear of music… really the score is most of the source of fear there, though it brings in Lovecraftian themes of the fear of revelations about the underlying nature of reality that science opens to us and shows how the universe may at any time kill us. Alien Covenant is I feel guilty saying this one's as it's too new so it's above in the spoiler part. The Omen is fear of adopted children… or the Biblical apocalypse with elements of a more general fear of fate for it protects Damien. Poltergeist is fear of the TV… That's not a joke answer, there's a lot of the TV dominating their lives and pulling the family apart (seen mostly with the husband's own preponderance to pay it worship) and more than ghosts it is the fear of a family torn asunder that plays upon us. Frankenstein was fear of fear itself… Ok the honest one was fear of Boris Karloff, but the intro's warning of how scary it was actually served as good primer to let yourself be afraid except the movie wasn't scary. Friday the 13th Part 2 was fear of farmers… I'm sticking with fear of farmers. The 7 Golden Vampires was fear of Kung Fu Dracula… don't expect that to change. Child's Play is fear of dolls… more seriously it's mainly fear of your child being hurt. Saw was fear of puzzles… ok really it was more… the moral dilemma of do you break under the pressure or stand firm. Alien 3 was fear of the xenomorph… Seriously it was banking on the preexisting fear of the specific monster. Uzumaki was fear of nothing for there was nothing in it to fear (ok it was fear of spirals but). Now of course this is sort of tongue and cheek. But really they do fall into certain types of horror. Vampyr is the fever dream, a classic part of Dracula and Frankenstein (the books) the biggest horror in either. The Descent is the monster movie combined with extreme brutality and blood for intensity, and the themes of madness to dig just a little deeper and give a cerebral bite. Dr Terror's uses different things in different tales but most are supernatural monster stories, the finer aspects would ruin the individual stories (as forecast as the twists are), and one is nature rebels which is a type of horror film. Prince of Darkness is a cosmic horror story combined with elements of haunted house and zombie. The Omen is harder for me to classify my first thought is that it's sort of cosmic horror as well, Damien is destined to win and cause the apocalypse, but we are far too special to god in it for traditional cosmic horror, I'm going to say 'Christian horror' with elements of the classic changeling story. Poltergeist is a haunted house tale. Frankenstein is a monster movie, theoretically the same type as Alien 3, Child's Play, Vampyre, and many others (it's a broad category) but really like Alien 3 and Child's Play it's a pretty pure monster movie (Alien 3 is also action/sci-fi but as a horror tale). Friday the 13th is a Slasher flic using a Psycho Killer. The 7 Golden Vampires is a Vampire film. Saw is a murder room; people are trapped in a room by a madman and must kill each other to escape, it's a nice story concept. Uzumaki is creep/weirdness as horror, though the manga moves into cosmic horror territory it's not there in the movie.

[shapedlikemyself]

for my own purposes, as a tales fan

I’ve had some thoughts that have been bouncing around for a long time and that I want to get out while it’s still somewhat coherent. This post really only exists for my sake as a thought dump. I started it three years ago, but now I think I can finish it.

In order of preference.

In terms of overall enjoyability and story: 1. Symphonia 2. Legendia 3. Abyss 4. Graces 5. Vesperia

In terms of the battle system: 1. Vesperia 2. Abyss 3. Symphonia 4. Graces 5. Legendia

I’ve also played and own Destiny, but think it’s unfair to put it in such a list, being as it is so early made in the scheme of things. Comparing its battle system to a later one is like comparing a kindergartner to a high school student. It has a story that I enjoy though, more than Graces. For various reasons, I have not made significant progress into Xillia (but hope to, when I have time to) and so, have no real thoughts about it. For obvious reasons, I have not played Destiny II, Rebirth, or Innocence. I have seriously critical thoughts and questions about Vesperia, so if you’re easily inflamed, you especially probably shouldn’t read.

Symphonia is still my fave of all of them because of the freedom allowed in the game, comprehensive flow and believeability, and just the sheer amount of rewards and sense of completion. Its thoroughness shows with the attention given to characters and the plot path makes sense. I’m not bogged down with exasperation at the convenience of plot turn points or at contrived happenings. Things just make sense and don’t feel forced, like in other Tales games. Relationships have their growth and we see it (especially if we so choose to get even more in depth with specific party members) and nothing feels cheapened by forced dialogue/interactions that are there just to fulfill outdated and pandering relationship roles. The characters each have hidden depths, which really makes them shine as unique individuals in a genre filled with cardboard cutouts and unmemorable faces. I care about each of them, to a point, and am interested in their stories, no matter how much they annoy me, personally, with their choices. While I have my favorites and characters that I don’t personally like, I can’t say that any of them are really boring or flat. Their flaws are outweighed by their virtues and the honesty and beauty I get from them is really inspirational. I get to see people make mistakes, but they’re are never too far gone to be saved and there is just so much hope. The story really makes an impression and is lasting and worthy of remembrance, so there is a lot to be gained from playing it. I’m allowed to go where I want (usually) and play how I want, and not feel that I’m playing “incorrectly”. That's not to say that I don't feel restrictions at all, at certain points, but nothing that feels stifling and game killing like in the subsequent Tales games. I could go on and on about Symphonia, but it really is a gem of a game that I never tire of playing. It still remains as one of my most favorite games and while it has its flaws, I’m hardpressed to find anything that I actually dislike about the game. It's just incredibly fulfilling to play and yet, I always want more when I finish it.

Legendia is my second fave because it also retains a sense of freedom and of there being a grand scheme of things, of a world that actually has things and people in it that aren’t just there for my own purposes. People fill the world and have their own lives, and I’m able (usually) to go where I want without the risk of being forced to continue the main story. The main plot doesn’t leave me wondering how we got from point A to point B, nor does it shoehorn me into following whatever it deems “necessary”, without any deviations. The battle system was never one I loathed or ruined the game for me, but it definitely had restrictions that I did not like. It also does feel a little lighter on the side rewards, but not enough to make me feel cheated. The characters felt a little cliched at times, but generally broke out of their cliches in interesting ways. The story was one that I enjoyed and wasn’t forced to accept/fight through, so much so, that I found myself continuing eagerly in spite of any reservations I had with the fights. As with Symphonia, a lot of the relationships are open to interpretation without punishment for not following them “the way you are supposed to”. Friendship and trust is more important than any romantic entanglements, and there is a lot of time and energy used to show it. The reason for fighting so hard for someone else's sake is not always only because of romantic inclinations. Romance is not the be all, end all when it comes to intimacy and trust. I am not insulted with forced and fake “true love”, nor am I forced to take it in that way either. ie., I don’t like/ship Senel/Shirley romantically at all, and the game allows me that, without beating my brain in with stupid interactions that state “This is the way they are and we will make you ingest it until you accept it!” The ending is what you make of it and I love that. Tropes that I do not like and that make me ill are few and far between, and there isn’t anything major in the game that leaves a bad taste in my mouth as the credits roll. This game is very filling and also leaves me wanting more, in the same way as Symphonia. Or maybe I just really like the Oresoren because they are just so fucking cute.

the Abyss is a game that I used to actually dislike, when compared to the other Tales games I had played at that time (Destiny, Symphonia, Legendia). Like, actual, negative points. But then, over the years, as I replayed it multiple times trying to get into it and rethought my stance, I realized that there just are certain aspects, certain points that I’m not a fan of. It still has the feel of “open world” while not actually being so. I am allowed to use my characters in battle how I want and control their growth to my preferred specifications. The flow of the game and its events feel largely natural and it doesn’t feel like I’m jumping from point to point disconnectedly. The characters feel like people with actual depth and are understandable, even when who they are are people who I do not like and would not prefer to interact with (even the campy and/or super dramatic ones). Certain events are given proper consideration and the especially traumatic ones feel like they have a real weight, that they're not being waved off or used for convenience's sake. The relationships (in terms of romantic developments, as well as platonic) are a mixed bag to me. Some are seemingly natural and plausible, even when I don’t understand their developments. ie., I do not like Luke/Tear as a romantic relationship, nor do I understand why they would like each other that way, but I understand how it could happen and it doesn’t feel totally fake to me (probably due to my intake of shoujo and dramas). The fate of their relationship and the ending of the game itself is also open to interpretation, which is something I’m grateful for (being as I’m of the opinion that the surviving Fabre is the original, and that’s okay because the game allows it without any browbeating). So while I originally let my disappointment with relationship developments and the flaws of the main character drive my main opinion, I’ve come to realize that there’re actually a lot of good points about this game too, like the whole cast of characters itself, the fact that Luke does change and try to change for the better, and that there feels to be a real weight with the decisions made that affect the entire world. Like the games above, it feels like I exist in the world, but there's more to it than just me. The main relationship is not all there is (despite how it can feel that way because of my annoyance with it) and the game really feels like it understands that. I mostly rescind my earlier thoughts, but am more glad I was able to use them to work through it to see this game’s charm.

Destiny is a game that I’ve no major qualms with, but am not completely in love with either. Destiny is of a more straightforward nature in its characters and story, given the time it came out, but also indicative of the way future games would be created. In terms of complications and depth of plot and characters, Destiny was still just stepping into that aspect that would define future games. I think that Destiny falls into more classic ideas of heroes and the main story doesn’t really break the mold too much, but as I stated earlier, there are moments where the types are broken down and the staples of Tales games can be seen, even in a game this early. Most likely because of its place in Tales development history and the time, its battle system is simpler too, and less fulfilling, but I can’t really fault it for that too much. It doesn't feel bland so much as just young & immature compared the other games (obviously).It’s fun to play. And Stahn really is a cutie.

Vesperia, though, for all its polish and glitter, disappointed me immensely and it’s very unfortunate, considering how much I love the battle system. I would play just for the fighting and skip the majority of the scenes if I could. The cast of characters as whole are mostly more flat than I would have expected, and the villains just as cookie cutout evil without sense. I could predict every line and action with just the knowledge of standard anime and game cliches. Yuri is just the type of character I’m interested in, but the plot feels so disjointed and nothing really seems to matter. ie. Yuri straight up murdering two people at night, while I agree with his choices (how can I really feel bad at the deaths of two moronic assholes?), there are bigger things at work here. Yuri is the antithesis of classic Tales heroes, and JRPG heroes in general. Flynn is the model of moral perfection we’d normally get, but Yuri is the main character. The classic formula should be tossed onto its head. So all that stuff we typically don’t have to deal with in Tales games, with taking the high road, should have been addressed. And yet, when the knight in shining armor who believes in the law and the sheltered princess who hates pain and fighting find out what he’s done, what happens? Nothing. They just take it in stride and I’m supposed to believe that they’re just okay with it. (Granted, Flynn shares his disappointments and is a little more complicated in his relationship with Yuri, but in the grand scheme of things, enables and rewards Yuri for behavior he finds reprehensible. You might feel that Yuri is “stronger” because he can do things you can’t, but that doesn’t make them right). And if the honor bound knight doesn’t stir up any major personal dissatisfaction or fear in our "hero", none whatsoever, then what is the point of anything Yuri is or does? What's his story and why am I here playing his game? There’s no tension or drama when you know nothing bad is really going to happen to Yuri or that there's no real need for change. 

You might say, and I would agree, Yuri is not a hero and he does what is necessary. He can't afford to fear or doubt or go back on his path. That's not his story; changing, growing stronger and taking up the mantle of a hero of legend. He doesn't have the luxury of the moral highground or optimism for humanity's potential. That's not the world he lives in. He's not Lloyd or Asbel, indeed, so of course he's not going to play the same cards as their kind. But then why does it feel like the people around him and the game itself tries to force him in that role? If his story isn’t a hero’s journey, why does the game seem to disagree? Why is he the only one that make the grand, heroic gestures and why does it have to be him to pull someone back from the edge? Why is it Yuri that's always doing the heavy lifting? Is it because he's the main character and it's his story? If so, that's incredibly boring and lackluster and makes it seem like the world only spins on its axis because of Yuri. It wouldn't have been so bad, to see such an atypical character walk through a typical Tales world and make things topsy turvy with their fresh perspective and I would have loved just that, to see the other side of the street when you have someone not so noble in the driver's seat. But not when, while you're stressing how ignoble the character is and you have him getting away with some really shady shit, you have the other characters looking at him like he has pure intentions and a beautiful soul. I don't think that Yuri is a bad person in the slightest and in fact, on his own, I enjoy him a great deal. I think he's an interesting take on the classic Tales hero. He has good intentions and is a good person overall, but you can't negate the really suspect stuff he pulls. It could have been interesting, if our main character had some real conversations and fights with other characters. There could have been depth there and real growth and connecting. He could have met half way with others, but there isn’t any of that. There might be some doubts about Yuri, but the doubters always come to his way of thinking and say no more. There's no real personal struggle at all and nothing really seems to affect him. He just exists and is a symbol of something that their world needs, but there's no real depth to him outside this idea. Yuri doesn’t have to come to terms with the weight of his vigilante actions, nor do any “real world” rules apply to him, which then dampens and almost negates later “developments”. Because what development has Yuri really gone through, if he can kill people when he decides it’s ok and not face any punishment? What challenges does he actually have to overcome? Besides the villain who makes stupid choices just to be the villain? He stays the same throughout the game, there’s no requirement for change, and it doesn’t feel like there’s any point to the things he does. Everything he does feels very -eh *shoulder shrug* I did it because it had to be done i was just here at the right moment- and the relationships he forms feel very -well we saved the world see you around maybe- which really sucks, considering the relationships have always been a favorite aspect of Tales games for me. Who is Yuri outside of this vigilante persona? Everything outside of Yuri feels very blasé .

Someone might say that he becomes more personable and welcoming, but I think even that is diminished, considering others either don’t know about Yuri’s choices or, if they do, there is never any confrontation to ignite change. Yuri doesn’t ever show regret or think back on his actions, even in a small way, (and maybe rightfully so, considering who he targeted, but a life is still a life) and when faced with opposing opinions, it works itself out with no genuine output from Yuri. He doesn’t ever have the desire to want to admit wrongdoings to make himself a better person. He does it because others need him or ask him to. It doesn’t feel like Yuri ever gets accepted for who he really is (except by his dog pal and best frenemy). He just does what he has to and says what he has to to get from one moment to the next. And later, when the story gets bigger, Yuri’s midnight strolls are not addressed again. What effect did taking out those two people even mean to Yuri, as a character? If nothing, if it’s just something he did because he could and because someone had to, then that’s in line with his attitude the rest of the game. He saves the world because someone has to and it might be dirty, but he can do it. He himself knows that he’s not a good guy, or noble, or pure and has accepted this. He doesn't try to be anything but himself or do anything else than what he wants to. The game feels like it forgets that. Characters later treating him as if he’s some larger than life, noble hero only goes to show me how much they do not see him or know him. He has friends, but friends that remain in the dark while he goes off and does whatever needs doing. He might be more willing to work with others in achieving a goal, but he still feels just as alone as he did at the start and just as likely to break off to fulfill a task. It seems like a very heavy and lonely burden to carry and I would hope that he have someone to share it with (especially in a Tales game). But that might honestly be me injecting more than I need to, given that his sharing with Repede and Flynn seems to be enough and he seems at peace with his role. I like his interactions with Flynn a lot (and that bit with Yuri wishing he could be like Flynn/do what Flynn does? Marvelous! Flynn really is the hero of this story that we don't get to follow). And with all the relationship development focus seemingly on Flynn and Yuri (which, in my opinion made their relationship as a whole the only believeable and interesting one), it was hard for me to believe that the party in any combination made any lasting impression on each other or lifelong friendships with each other. I believe that they’re friends in the common sense, but not to the level which other Tales games held friendship and that was a disappointment, because of it being such a common and expected thing from past games. Nevermind how I couldn’t buy any genuine romantic interest between any members of the party because of lack of development, I couldn’t honestly see why some party members stuck around at certain point of the game.

Getting from Point A to Point B was convoluted and foggy, and there was plenty of hand waving. It was in this game the most that I felt that progressing the story was a major chore. On more than one occasion, I felt myself rolling my eyes at just how dramatic and cliche some happenings seemed to be, not to mention illogical and random. ie. after defeating a foe who threatened the very world, our protag is rewarded not two seconds later with being stabbed by a random NPC in an emotional outburst and falling from a tower that reached into the sky (what was she even doing up there?). This same NPC who saw his value and recognized his merits in his friendship with Flynn, as well as his shortcomings, and who seemed to be trying to deal, in her own way. And her immediate response to her own sudden attack? Shock and horror as she watches him fall. What was the purpose of such an action? Yuri doesn’t fault her and neither do I, because of Yuri’s shady choices, but the bigger concern is just what was the point, aside from cheap dramatic tension? It couldn’t be anything like his chickens coming home to roost, considering how quickly the attack is forgotten, and with how nothing else comes back to bite his ass, Yuri doesn’t really ever face the music. It’s just something else that happens. He just continues to exist with no sense of urgency or purpose.

tl;dr It’s hard to see him as an interesting character if nothing really challenges him personally or if he’s never forced to see another way as actually valid. If he doesn’t change at all, then what’s the point of having him here? Yuri just doesn’t ever feel like he’s all there, nor does he seem to connect with anyone in a deep and honest way (save Flynn and Repede). Things just happen to him and he rolls with it. He fills the anti hero role well and I love him as a character on his own (someone’s who’s strong enough to take out scumsuckers, who when I said to myself while playing “Just kill him” actually did it?), but it’s just not very interesting when he interacts with his world and most of the people in it, especially with the way his story is told. Which is really too bad.

And besides the serious lack of development in terms of our main character, the lackluster cast, and the depth of the main plot, the game overall just felt lacking in its sidequests and rewards. Aside from the main story and a card game, there wasn't much to do. I beat this game the quickest out of all of them. It’s like shiny, pretty candy. Pretty to look at, but no real substance to it. I guess I’m just really disappointed in what Vesperia could have been, considering how fucking cool Yuri, Repede, Flynn and Judith are.

Graces disappointed me in a multitude of ways. I was let down a little in how character’s stats are boosted and titles are even gained, but I can't honestly say that it was a major problem. It also has a battle system I don’t hate, but do find tedious and the removal of MP and the menu placement  (esp in terms of how much you can actually do) makes things feel really limited as well. It was the first game where I would put fights on auto just to get through them and generally, the battles were more of a burden then a benefit to playing. Some of the artes were cool and I thought there was a large variety in types of styles for how each character fought, but they didn’t keep me from sighing whenever I had an encounter. It’s not a terrible game, but as a Tales game, it’s not something I felt very rewarded in playing, in terms of the battles, characters, and plot development. That's not to say that it felt like a chore to play all the time and there are no good points at all. Dualizing & fulfilling requests was actually fun a lot of the time and it is a very pretty game with some genuinely entertaining scenes. The amount of sidequests and extra goodies felt more than sufficient and it definitely felt like there was more than just the main story to invest in. Little main party character moments and insights made the characters a little more interesting and a little more fun, if only by a little sometimes.

But on the point of the cast, Graces felt less developed and original in its characters and their types, and so, they are less interesting to me, but they’re nothing I haven’t seen in other such games or anime either. Whereas Vesperia’s cast mostly felt like hollow caricatures, Graces’ cast felt a little more weighty, at least. They have their roles and play out their cliches like you'd expect, even when those cliches are disturbing and nonsensical, yes, but there’s a good deal of main party interaction and building, as predictable and/or headache inducing as it is. While I'm not particularly crazy about any of the characters, when they do things that I don’t like/understand, at least I can see where they’re coming from, most of the time. (For instance, Hubert being crazy for Pascal? What the fuck? Big No Thanks.) Their journeys play out in front of me and there isn’t any twisting, generally, to make them fit certain ideas of what a character type should do or say. ie, Asbel is consistently emphatic about protecting those he loves and relentless when it comes to not letting a friend down and so, it doesn’t seem to come out of left field or be suddenly too intense. While at times I find his ideals selfish and not well thought out for the long term, he also has to face the weight of his choices and he doesn’t always just get let off with a slap of the wrist. Relationships have to be rebuilt and he doesn’t get everything he wants on a silver platter. It's another case of Asbel being a member of this world and his story isn't the world's story, as central as he is. 

However, he is the main hero and there are a number of other characters that feel abandoned and very underdeveloped. Like, their potential and connection to main characters was not used even remotely well (case in point: Lord Aston, Kurt, etc. take your freaking pick). We’re supposed to feel some kind of loss or inspiration or whatever, but they were hardly around before they were shoved off and that isn’t good for making me care about them or want to learn more about them (not that there are even many such chances anyway and the ones you do get are after the characters are already dead, so they feel very cheap and pointless). Overall, the cast of characters aren’t particularly appealing to me, but I don’t hate them either. (Although, I can’t say that I like Hubert in the slightest. He’s quite annoying actually. But Richard and Malik? Big good points of the game). In conclusion, I was very disappointed in the game. Graces feels more bland, even compared to the older games and it's like I'm a spectator in the story, not a participant. Which, to be fair, may be due to the fact that I have no particular & major attachment to most of the characters or the story. And having played this after Vesperia, the bar was set low. Like with Vesperia, it got to the point where I had to force myself to finish the game while suppressing either boredom or violent irritation. I played to the end just so I could cross it off my list. After finishing this game and with my dissatisfaction compounded, I gave up on reclaiming that distinctly “Tales” feeling.