#parasocial relationship doesn't have to be codependent

[mzannthropy]

Because I've been Thinking About Things, I remembered when Nikolaj Coster Waldau was asked whether he liked the ending of Game of Thrones (yeah, this is going back more than four years), he answered that yes he did, and how people didn't believe him. They thought he was lying bc I don't know... they forced him to say it or whatever. People just could not accept that he simply felt differently from them.

But why is it that people want an actor to feel the same way as them so desperately? Is it for validation?

Nikolaj, unlike the majority of the fandom, does not hate Cersei. Not hating Cersei means you already feel more positive about the ending (try it sometime, just for 5 minutes). I saw him say in some interview or commentary that he got really emotional filming that last scene with Lena--both of them were teary-eyed. Why wouldn't they, it was emotional. People just can't see it bc they're haters. But--that's okay. You are allowed to hate, just as you're allowed to love whatever you feel like. Just accept that that an actor, who played the role for years, might not share your view.

[gyumibear]

✂️ three's a crowd — 00: my clematis

synopsis — being an ex-obsessive fan is hard, but you've been doing well so far. that is until your rival is revealed to be dating choi soobin, the idol you've been dreaming of for years! so, now your road to recovery is detoured because you're not going to let that slide. you're going to break them apart at all costs. doesn't she know three's a crowd?

taglist — open! send an ask or comment on the main masterlist to be added! @imsiriuslyreal

warnings — violation of hippa laws 😭, mentions of mental illness (codependency, obsession, parasocial relationships), allusions to suicidal thoughts and mentions of violence.

(wc — 1.5k)

It is our intention to include a transcript of the therapeutic sessions run by Dr. [REDACTED] with his client [REDACTED]. These transcripts are protected by doctor-client confidentiality laws (HIPPA) and should only be accessed by the verified person(s). Please call [xxx-xxx-xxxx] if you are in fear of those laws being violated. 

August 24, 2019 / #Session 1

Note: C refers to client [REDACTED] while T refers to Dr. [REDACTED].

T: Hello, [REDACTED], it’s nice to see you today. 

C: I’m only here because [REDACTED] wants me to be.

T: And might I ask who that is? Is he your father?

C: He’s my cousin, in a way. He’s more like a brother though.

T: Is he your legal guardian?

C: Yes, but only for a few more days. I’m about to turn 18 soon.

T: I’ll note that down. Well, thanks for coming, and I’m happy to help you. First, I want to go over a few things with you. I just want you to know that everything we talk about here is confidential. 

C: Obviously. You’d get sued if you didn’t keep things between us.

T: *Dry laugh* You’re correct. Let’s start talking, what happened today that brought you here?

C: Hm.

T: Feel free to start whenever you’re comfortable, [REDACTED].

C: I pushed a girl down a flight of stairs.

T: Did she do something to anger you? Why did you push her?

C: She said that [REDACTED] is the weakest member of [REDACTED].

T: Can you enlighten me as to who that is? Is he a celebrity?

C: Yes, my favorite! He’s the leader of [REDACTED] which is a K-Pop group.

T: Ah, right. Why did her comment about him upset you so much?

C: Because he’s the love of my life? She was spewing absolute bullshit and she doesn’t even know him. Not like I do. I know how hard [REDACTED] works, how much he does for the group and the other members. She deserved to get put in her place.

T: Hold on, [REDACTED]. You said he’s the love of your life? Can you explain that?

C: He is. We’re gonna get married one day. I know it.

T: Let’s dig deeper into this, okay? Tell me more about [REDACTED].

September 28, 2019 / Session 3

C: So, I doxxed her, and I got her expelled.

T: All because she said she preferred [REDACTED] to [REDACTED]?

C: Yeah! I like [REDACTED] and all, but the best member will forever be my [REDACTED]. He’s not the leader for no reason, Dr. [REDACTED].

T: I understand how you feel, but [REDACTED], she is allowed to have her own opinion. You can understand that, correct?

C: She can. That doesn’t mean she won’t face the consequences for them.

T: Hm.

January 4, 2020 / Session #10

T: Welcome back, [REDACTED]. How was your Christmas?

C: It was pretty good, [REDACTED] bought me two [REDACTED] albums. I pulled [REDACTED] of course. It’s because he loves me. He made sure I got his PCs.

T: Hm. Have you been taking your medication regularly?

C: …

T: [REDACTED]?

C: No. I just… forgot. [REDACTED] got really mad at me over the break and I felt like he was gonna leave me and I- I just couldn’t focus on anything else.

T: Why did he get upset with you?

C: I spent the rent money on some [REDACTED] merch cause his birthday was coming up. December 5.  He had to call [REDACTED] and ask him to pay this month. They both were really pissed at me, [REDACTED] was the angriest though. I felt bad, like genuinely bad about it.

T: When you say bad, do you really mean sad?

C: Yeah… I just, I don’t ever want him to be mad at me. He’s all I have… But, it’s like… When it comes to [REDACTED] I just can’t control myself. It’s like I’d [REDACTED] if he asked me to.

T: Do you want to [REDACTED]?

C: Sometimes.

March 4, 2020 / Session #14

C: Lately, I’ve just been feeling… Empty? Today’s supposed to be a happy one, cause it’s their one-year anniversary, but I just… Don’t feel anything?

T: Why do you think that is? Did something happen?

C: My classmate recently started biasing him and she actually met him. She ran into him at the convenience store or something and he… talked to her.

T: Continue.

C: At first I thought she was lying, just to piss me off, but… She pulled out her phone and she showed a whole group of us. He took a picture with her and she said he even called her pretty…

T: How did that make you feel when you heard that?

C: Pretty upset. I didn’t do anything to her though, I just walked away.

T: That’s good, [REDACTED]. I’m glad nobody got hurt.

C: Doesn’t mean I didn’t want to hurt her.

T: I understand, but we’re working on that, now aren’t we?

C: Yes. Yes, we are.

August 5, 2020 / Session #25

T: Woah, [REDACTED] you seem very upset today.

C: I’m not in the mood Doc.

T: Would you mind telling me why?

C: [REDACTED] has dating rumors. With this random bitch [REDACTED]. Literally, just because they’re working together as emcees does not mean they’re dating! He wouldn’t do that. He knows that would crush me.

T: [REDACTED], you remember [REDACTED] doesn’t know you, right?

C: That’s not true! He responded to my message on [REDACTED]. Twice. He knows me.

T: Oh dear. [REDACTED], I’m sorry. That was out of line on my part.

C: It’s fine, just don’t say that again. I’m already in a bad mood.

April 16, 2022 / Session #x 

Note: C stopped seeing T for a few years due to her time in [REDACTED] after an incident in which she [REDACTED] after an altercation with her classmate. A few of her files were lost, these were the earliest we could find.

C: I’m going to [REDACTED] for University. It took a lot of hard work, but I’m gonna study fashion! [REDACTED] is paying my tuition, but I’m gonna work so I can pay him back.

T: That’s a good idea, [REDACTED]. I’m proud of you.

C: It is a little scary though…

T: What’s scary?

C: Being away from [REDACTED] and [REDACTED]. Cause I have to move into a dorm, I’m not going to see them every day like usual… I’m a bit nervous. I think it’s my separation anxiety.

T: That could be it. Let’s talk more about this. 

May 31, 2022 / Session #x

T: This is the last time I’m going to be seeing you regularly, [REDACTED]! 

C: Yeah, it feels like it was just yesterday when I met you for the first time.

T: How are you feeling? Been keeping up with your meds?

C: Yep! I’ve been feeling pretty okay! When I start feeling bad I just remember the exercises and the practices you taught me and I work around them. I’m healed, basically.

T: You were never broken, [REDACTED]. You just needed some guidance. You are doing exceptionally well, but don’t start slacking off. We don’t want you to relapse.

C: Yeah, I got you Doc. I’m gonna be on my best behavior!

T: I believe as much. So, what music do you have to share with me this week?

C: I’ve been listening to [REDACTED]! She’s so cool, she makes me wanna learn how to play an instrument.

T: That’d be a good hobby, don’t you think?

C: Yep. Also, Doc..?

T: Yes, [REDACTED]? You look concerned?

C: I, um… I saw some photos of [REDACTED] online… I blocked all the tags that I could, but I guess they just slipped through.

T: That’s alright. these things happen. How did you feel about that?

C: I felt like screaming. I don’t know how to describe it, but it wasn’t a good feeling. So I turned my phone off and I went to go talk to [REDACTED] about it.

T: Is that fully true?

C: …

T: [REDACTED], please tell me the truth.

C: Hm… No.

T: What did you really do?

C: I binge-watched all the fancams I could find of him…

T: Is that all?

C: I also argued with some people online… But then [REDACTED] came and he distracted me.

T: *Sighs* Let’s have another session tomorrow, I want to investigate something.

C: Okay…

August 1, 2023 / Session #x

T: You’re going back to school soon. How do you feel?

C: Fine. It’s just school, you know?

T: Mhm. How’ve you been feeling?

C: Fine. I spent the weekend at [REDACTED]’s so I’m pretty out of it, haha.

T: I see. Did you keep up with your medicine?

C: Do you even need to ask? Of course. I haven’t missed a day in months.

T: I’m very proud of you. Why did you schedule this meeting though, might I ask?

C: I dunno… I just felt like I should.

T: That’s okay! I’m here for you for that very reason. So, tell me what’s on your mind?

C: There’s this girl who’s supposed to be my roommate… I don’t like her.

T: What’s her name?

C: [REDACTED]. She’s a music major.

T: What don’t you like about her?

C: She just… Seems fake? There’s something off and it makes me feel weird.

T: Hm… When was the first time you two interacted?

C: Well… Let’s see…

Note: End of recovered transcripts.

a/n — this was just a simple prologue/teaser to show what yn's mental state is like! i've never done therapy transcripts so i'm sorry if they're an inaccurate portrayal? let me know if there's something that needs to be tagged or changed.

playlist / masterlist / next

© GYUMIBEAR. do not repost, modify or translate my work onto other social media sites.

[heybaetae]

There were a few parasocial relationship discussions in the past week on reddit and someone brought up Jungkook almost every time as someone who leans more into the parasocial relationship with his fans - or enables it, I'm not sure how to word it properly. And it made me a little confused because to me, it doesn't seem like he does it? Or maybe I'm not that delulu to think that what he's doing Is indeed parasocial sometimes, or I don't fully understand what counts as parasocial with an idol. So I wanted to ask: do you think that he's leaning a bit into it?

If I remember correctly they brought up him calling the fans as his girlfriend(s) - I honestly just took that as a joke but Idk? - and him folding his underwear on camera - again very confusing to me because why is that parasocial? - and him sleeping on camera - well okay I can see why This counts as parasocial, but the others?

Sure, compared to idols who only do the necessary fanservice and rarely interact with fans he really does a lot more, like he had a million lives this year alone and he shared his recipes with us and gifted songs and etc. but I still don't know. Is it really more parasocial than it should be and I'm just simply not noticing it? 😅

i think his dynamic with the fandom is appropriately parasocial enough without it becoming overly codependent even though some would probably argue that it might feel that way from time to time. he's expressed that the fandom can't be excluded from his life and i believe he really feels that way since ARMY have been a constant in his life for a decade from such a young age and that's a big factor into why it's so strongly important to him.

i think he leaned into it way more than ever this year on purpose because he knew there'd be a temporary pause eventually and he wanted to make the most of his spare time with us in a less stress-inducing way while being in full control of it. consider how rare that's been in his long career, everything from your fanmeets/concerts to your scheduled livestreams at the company building being orchestrated and planned out for you. him deciding to say "fuck it i wanna chat with fans whenever i feel like it" and kickstarting the habit of going live from home without telling anyone at work first and letting it become a regular thing was a conscious decision he likely put thought into after he got away with it the first couple times. i'm not implying he didn't have control of that before, but there was always an obvious protocol to follow for safety reasons, which is understandable, but he wanted to take the risk and so he did. other members would later follow that example too.

i think sometimes people misunderstood him or purposely misconstrued his words on those lives, especially his jokes or his way of expressing his thoughts/feelings to fit their own narrative or image of him. people want him to fit the mold they've created in their heads of him, so no matter how often he came live and was vulnerable and honest with us, people still looked for ways and reasons to dictate what he did, how he felt, how he meant something differently from what he said when he couldn't have been more clear, etc.

i can't make you see something differently from how you already do. i don't love the term "delulu" in this sort of context because like you said, a lot of the normal things he let us see on his lives were normal every-day chores and not everyone is going to consider it very parasocial to have seen it, but how often do you hear of idols letting their fans in that much? hardly ever. it was fun for both parties because it was unexpected and sometimes spontaneous (like sleeping/cooking/exercising) and he felt comfortable enough to do certain things with an audience. we're talking about someone who'd been mostly ghost online for like two years. someone who has a history of being very shy. it meant a lot to fans to see him come out of his shell and grow even more comfortable with us, even if it sometimes put him in some unsafe situations because unfortunately, there are some really scary people out there. idk where the parasocial quota is, so i can't say what it "should be" but i can tell you i've never seen any famous person engage with their fans in as pure of a way as he did this year.

[trustherkindheart]

“Preath” as a ship—not their actual relationship—led to some weirddd behavior, but to an extent, at least it was real. Like, is seeing people obsessed with you and your relationship weird? I bet it is! But it’s a lot less weird to have people into you and your actual partner than people constructing a fake relationship that they are convinced is real, which is the whole “Sose” nonsense. What that other anon said about people trying to construct a new “Preath” feels accurate. The whole “omg a hidden relationship on the team” thing (although I’d say it was pretty obvious after a certain point, not some easter egg shit) attracted people to preath and now people are desperate for another, because Press and Heath aren’t on the team anymore and are pretty much public. All this to say I think “Sose” is weirder than anything before. It’s pretty obviously not real (it was literally constructed as a singular joke and then someone ran with it!) AND now it’s evolving into analyzing their behavior too much.

The thing with Preath is yes, it turned out to be real, but we didn't know that for sure for a long time. And more importantly it was very clear they did not want to be public with that sort of information or have it be a subject of discussion. And people who claimed to be fans of theirs literally did not care and went ravenous to dissect any interaction that could be remotely construed as romantic. Including in replies and mentions that connected directly back to Tobin and Christen.

I don't think Sose is as bad because it's not as wide spread (at least that I've seen) and people aren't as rabid crazy for it as Preath fans continue to be until this day. Literally Twitter starts @ing them and begging for signs of life if there's like two weeks without a post. It's frankly disturbing how parasocially codependent some people are.

But that doesn't make Sose any less weird. Just knock it off and let them be people. Why is it so important to you that two people you've never met are in a romantic relationship? Their sexuality is not a subject for your curiosity.

[opinated-user]

I find it weird how Lily listed one of the bad things that Patch did in the video is trauma dumping even though Lily herself have constantly trauma onto her fans on her tumblr blog and her streams, thinking it would not mentally/emotionally affect them despite being affected by trauma dumping done by Patch. She created a weird double standard and what’s worse is that instead of a friend, it’s fans forming parasocial relation with her.

LO seems incapable of understand that when you constantly talk about every single personal detail about your life with your audience, include them on your fetishes and using them for venting purposes, you're the one who is encouraging a codependent parasocial relationship. she doesn't seem to get that creator can be just as responsible for how their fans percieve them as anything else. i should know because i was a fan and it was LO, not anyone else, who end up convincing me to stop supporting her. but to LO that is perfectly fine as long she's the one who gets to benefit the most out of the relationship. the moment anyone asks anything more out of her (even if it's just a simple question) then parasocial relationships are toxic and it's all her fanbase's fault, never hers. everyone's always on a mistake. to call what happened with Patch "trauma dumping" is even more gross because they were friends at the time and LO had no issue taking advantage of their vulnerable state for her advantage. as long she was getting what she wanted out of their arrengement everything was fine and the second Patch says they're not okay with it, suddenly they're in the wrong for trusting on a friend in the first place. it's all so disgusting.

[vividaway]

hey i hope you learn to not take things so personally on behalf of gabbie hanna bc it's gone past parasocial relationships and i think you have developed a one sided codependency and it literally very obviously negatively affects your daily mental health :/ like ppl don't just say stuff to be mean - you're unhinged. legitimately.

(pt 2) also ur post abt jen is really funny bc you're like "of course she's jessis best friend" but i literally don't think she is currently and i think you're just saying that bc you can't see past being personally upset. just a thought. pls be aware that when experiencing heightened emotions doesn't mean ur reality is heightened too. :/ (pt 3) also in general id advise seeking professional mental health help bc being agoraphobic & exclusively living online is clearly giving you terminally online brain rot. do you wanna be 27 in your moms home still yelling abt online haters? are you not an adult? do you not want to live like an adult? seems ur content staying mentally 14 forever.

-----

i find these kind of asks to be the MOST amusing, because not only do these people think they know my life, they actively go out of their way to try to get in contact with me. they side with people who believe doxxing people is alright "as long as its for the greater good" and they think harassment of any sort will fix their problems (spoiler alert: it wont.) lets get one thing straight here: i dont "take thing personally on behalf of gabbie hanna", i side with what I BELIEVE to be morally correct. its not morally correct to tell someone that theyre useless, that one no wants them or cares about them, and that they should disappear to someone who has actively stated time and time again to have suicidal ideations. this is KNOWINGLY triggering and harming someone who's mentally ill, and you're just straight up a horrible shitty human being if you do that. you CAN hold someone accountable AND have empathy to what theyre going through. they dont negate each other, and the second people learn THAT is the second i will stop riding so hard for what is MORALLY correct, not for Gabbie Hanna.

(Side note: you never hear these people talk about my interest for Lele Pons, Britney Spears, Taylor Nicole Dean, Rayleigh Link, BozeDoesTrueCrime, or Colleen Ballinger and i dont even need to pose the hypothetical question of "why do you think that is?", cause i'll tell you: they dont know who i ACTUALLY am, they only know who i am twitter.)

lets talk about parasocial relationships, because those are actually one of my favorite things to talk about! I know everything about Gabbie, or at least, everything she's told the internet. every time i (or anyone) interacts with gabbie, it is with the knowledge of who she is, and the things she has done. this puts us at a disadvantage. as fans, we then have two options.

not realize you're apart of a parasocial relationship.

realize you're apart of a parasocial relationship

it seems like a "thank u captain obvious" but it honest to god isnt. we as fans know gabbie, but gabbie knows NOTHING about us. she does NOT know we exist. if you choose path 1, you're set for a very VERY toxic situation where you slowly become entitled to somebodies time and efforts when you are NOT entitled to shitall. lets talk about path 2, though!

i know facts about gabbie. i stop and realize-- i am inconsequential to gabbie's daily life even if she DOES see me...

and that is the JOY of being a fan. of knowing you're a community of thousands, and not the one on a pedestal. we arent here because we want to KNOW gabbie personally, we're here because we agree with her. we relate to the things she's experienced, and by golly, we were harassed by the SAME EXACT PEOPLE!! we have a LOT in common-- and...and thats KIIIINDAAA the definition of being in a fandom. "A fandom is a subculture composed of fans characterized by a feeling of empathy and camaraderie with others who share a common interest."

on a side note, lets talk about my daily life, since you so inquired <3

my exposure therapy has been a really good (but frightening) experience! aside from normal visits, i hung out with a group of friends, and i went to a small live show. my plans for next week have similar plans, and i've been dealing with my agoraphobia pretty well since march.

i dont know what they mean by "negative codependency" seeing as i use my twitter the same way i use my tumblr...so hey!! WHY DIDNT YOU GUYS TELL ME SOONER THAT I HAD A NEGATIVE CODEPENDENCY TO THOMAS SANDERS?!!?!?! SO RUDE!! /J on an actual note: really? codependent to gabbie hanna? youtube, my phone, maybe, but gabbie? thats genuinely why i call these messages amusing because it honestly reminds me of THIS meme

its just a ~vibe~ yanno.

"pls be aware that when experiencing heightened emotions doesn't mean ur reality is heightened too" this is actually something i'd advise to every person who watched gabbie hanna, because they have this warped perception that gabbie is constantly planning this drama everytime she releases an album or song as IF she would want that tied to the album....that doesnt bring in listeners it only creates talk cmon now use ur brainy brains just bc ur emotions are heightened doesnt mean ur reality is

but yeah, thats my update with tumblr! how have you guys been /gen? its been awhile since i've done one of these (four or five years? wowee) and i KNOW tumblr's new "below the cut" update is gonna kill the vibe of this but its whatevs 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️ alyssa will talk on.