#reberus hagrid

[hollowed-theory-hall]

Hey how are you? I was actually curious how the characters' main writing was like. I remember that Harry makes his "i" like Lily's and Ron has a bad writing but I don't remember well for characters like dumbledore, Snape, Malfoy...

Hi, I'm doing pretty good, swamped with uni, but I don't have much to complain about.

Luckily for you, I actually have some notes regarding canon character handwriting. These notes are from supplementary books (Fantastic Beasts & Tales of Bettle the Bard) which actually have the character's handwriting in them. Along with some quotes I found about character handwriting.

(Also I'm not using signatures from the movies)

Harry:

'She had made her “g”s the same way he did' (DH) - Harry's handwriting shares some letters with his mother's handwriting. Notably, the "g".

Ron:

'Ron’s untidy scrawl' (CoS)

 'said Ron, scribbling away, making his writing as large as possible' (CoS)

'Harry stared at the word “Pig,” then looked up at the tiny owl now zooming around the light fixture on the ceiling. He had never seen anything that looked less like a pig. Maybe he couldn’t read Ron’s writing' (GoF)

Hermione:

'Harry could make out Hermione’s neat writing' (CoS)

'And Hermione’s done four feet seven inches and her writing’s tiny' (CoS)

Dumbledore:

'Written in narrow, loopy writing he had never seen before' (PS)

'The narrow handwriting was vaguely familiar' (OotP)

'thin, slanting writing on the parchment' (HBP)

'were five words written in the thin, slanting handwriting that Harry recognized as Dumbledore’s' (DH)

McGonagall:

From the actual HP books we get McGonagall's handwriting as well, due to her signature being on Harry's Hogwarts letter:

Snape:

Thanks to the HBP book, we also have some notes about Snape's handwriting:

'and yet his writing was minuscule and cramped' (OotP)

'cramped handwriting' (HBP)

 'Although Harry had offered to share his book with both of them, Ron had more difficulty deciphering the handwriting than Harry did' (HBP) - I take this to mean young Snape had tiny handwriting and that might be slightly similar to Harry's own (hence his ease at reading it).

'I think the handwriting looks more like a girl’s than a boy’s' (HBP) - assuming the handwriting is small and has some flourishes. (I kina imagine Snape's and Lily's handwriting is similar, which is why I think Harry's handwriting is a little similar to the Prince's)

Hagrid:

We also have some notes regarding Hagrid's writing which is nearly eligible.

'even a scribble that looked as though it was from the Hogwarts gamekeeper, Hagrid.' (CoS)

'He recognized the untidy scrawl on the brown paper at once: this was from Hagrid' (PoA)

Tom Riddle's:

'Riddle’s reply came quickly, his writing becoming untidier, as though he was hurrying to tell all he knew' (CoS) - meaning his handwriting is quite tidy usually.

(On an unrelated note since I've been searching for mentions of writing in the books I encountered this line in PS:

Harry cheered up a bit when he found a bottle of ink that changed color as you wrote

Considering we all talk about Harry's gold cauldron, I think we need to talk about Harry's color-changing ink. More cute Harry additions to Fantastic Beasts since I found them adorable:

The kid's adorable, I don't understand how the Dursleys could keep hating him, my boy.)

Edit: I got my hands on the 2017 edition of Quidditch Through the Ages, so I have more handwriting to add for anyone curious:

We've got in this photo: Ron (with comments), Neville, Susan (with comments), Hermione, Padma, Earnie, Melicent, Hermione again, and Draco.

(I'm not sure who commented on Ron and Susan's names as I don't recognize the handwriting. These are two different commenters I belive, due to how they write their 'S' and 'i'. The 'stinks' next to Ron's name might be Bulstrode as the 's' and 't' are a little similar)

[hollowed-theory-hall]

Who do you think are the ten core characters of the series? Is there a difference for you between importance to narrative/narrative roles and regularity in appearance for you?

Yeah, appearance count and narrative role aren't the same thing. Like, a character can be super plot-relevant or relevant to the themes but not have much on-page time.

And it's a damn hard question. Like, HP has so many characters, but a lot of them are like, random NPCs, so let's see if I can do this without bias for my favorites (since the bias is here). The order isn't necessarily in the right order, but it's the order in which they came to my mind.

The first 3 core characters for the plot/narrative are obvious:

1. Harry Potter

2. Voldemort

3. Dumbledore

I think Harry is an obvious choice as the main character and narrator. I don't think he needs further explanation.

Dumbledore and Voldemort are examples of characters who technically don't have as much on-page time but are so incredibly integral to the narrative. I mean, in book 7, Voldemort is barely there, and Dumbledore is dead, but both of them are still at the helm of the narrative.

So, yeah, these gotta be the top 3.

The next 3, I think, are:

4. Ron Weasley

5. Hermione Granger

6. Severus Snape

Like, Ron and Hermione are Harry's best friends. They are super integral to the plot and narrative of the books and appear more than any other character besides Harry. Ron represents the wizarding world, he is the main member of Harry's surrogate family (the Weasleys) so he's so incredibly integral. Hermione is the brilliant muggleborn, she is eleven both for her active part in the story and also for what she is in this world with the blood status tensions.

Snape, while not appearing as much, is instrumental to the narrative as a whole and to how the plot goes down. Snape, as the double-triple agent that he is, is also pretty representative of the story's themes of love and sacrifice, which supports his narrative importance.

Then, the final 4 to reach 10 are a bit of a struggle for me, and I feel my biases rearing their head, but I'd go:

7. Sirius Black

Sirius is the first real parental figure who's competent and whom Harry truly trusts. Sirius' existence is both important to the themes (the black sheep of the Black family) and more so to Harry's personal arc. His death and Harry's grief over it are so prevalent in Harry's story far into Deathly Hallows. Also, he's relevant to the Secret Keeper plot and James' and Lily's deaths.

8. Reberus Hagrid

Hagrid is the person who introduces so many of the ideas we know of as part of the Wizarding World. He's Harry's (and ours) first guide to the magical world and remains instrumental in getting Harry and Co useful information throughout the books.

9. Peter Pettigrew

I mean, none of us would be here without this rat. He got James and Lily killed, he resurrected Voldemort, and he then accidentally saved Harry at Malfoy Manor. He's surprisingly important.

Number 10 was the hardest, and I considered a few characters, but I decided to go with:

10. Lily Potter

Lily has little to no page time. We don't know about her as much as we know about James, but I think she's more integral to Harry's story. She represents love strong enough to rebound a killing curse. She saved Harry, and her sacrifice protects him quite literally throughout the books. It's why he defeats Quirrell in book 1, it caused Voldemort to keep him alive long enough to escape in book 4, and it's potentially why he came back after dying. Lily and her death are big themes in the books for what it represents and what she represents more than just her as a character.

Both Lily and James haunt Harry's narrative, but I feel Lily does so a bit more. There's a reason "you have your mother's eyes" is emphasized so much. Harry at his core, is more similar to Lily than James. That and the love Lily represents are core aspects of the story.

So, these are my picks, I tried to be as objective as I could, 🤷🏻‍♀️

[hollowed-theory-hall]

hi! i hope you're well! i saw a post recently about how much dumber the trio is compared to the marauders and they cited the marauders being able to be animagi, regulus finding out about the horcrux before everyone, snape correcting the textbook and making spells, etc, compared to the trio (especially harry) and how harry had to begin DA by teaching expelliarmus, how harry isn't very powerful etc which is blatant mischaracterisation (sorry if im ranting a little, im a little hurt for my boy loll).

anyway, they were saying how this is because of the hogwarts education system and it declined under dumbledore who was more interested in politics than running a school, which i found interesting. i do see where they were coming from, especially with so many subjects closing down over the years, with now only 12 owl subjects. i wonder if it's some sort of repression.

i was curious to see if you thought the education system at hogwarts has declined over the years dumbledore has been headmaster and if you think the marauders generation was smarter than the golden trio's generation.

Hi!

So, I'm not going to rant about Harry being super magically powerful here, since I already made this rant multiple times, so I'm going to focus on Hogwarts education.

The first claim I want to dispel is that the education at Hogwarts declined drastically under Dumbledore between the two generations. The main reason this point doesn't make sense is that Dumbledore became headmaster in the mid-60s (before Voldemort came to his interview in 1967), enough time before the Mauradres started school at 1971 that most major changes from changing the headmaster would've already happened. (That being said, 12 subjects was the standard also when Tom Riddle was at school, the subjects at Hogwarts haven't changed for a good century at least and have nothing to do with Dumbledore).

If we take a look at the faculty of Hogwarts, we actually see Dumbledore employed many of the same professors in the Mauraders generation and the Golden Trio's generation (At least for most core subjects):

Minerva McGonagall taught the Mauraders. Any transfiguration (becoming animagi) they learned beyond the classes she taught the Golden Trio were done via self-study on the Mauraders' part:

“Precisely,” said Professor McGonagall. “Black and Potter. Ringleaders of their little gang. Both very bright, of course — exceptionally bright, in fact — but I don’t think we’ve ever had such a pair of troublemakers —”

(PoA, Ch10)

Her curriculum likely hadn't changed in these years. It's just, like the Golden Trio, the Mauraders did a lot of self-studying beyond the curriculum.

Filius Flitwick in that same conversation in PoA mentions teaching the Mauraders as well:

“You’d have thought Black and Potter were brothers!” chimed in Professor Flitwick. “Inseparable!”

(PoA, Ch10)

Reberus Hagrid was already working at Hogwarts as the Groundskeeper and knew the Mauraders when they were students:

“I dunno,” chuckled Hagrid. “Fred and George Weasley could give ’em a run fer their money.”

(PoA, Ch10)

Cuthbert Binns had been teaching History of Magic way before Dumbledore started as a student at Hogwarts. That subject was always shit and it's nothing new.

As you can see, many of the core faculty are the same. There were some different professors though.

It's likely Professor Grubby-Plank was the one who thought the Mauradres Care of Magical Creatures, if they took the subject, and she's clearly an accomplished teacher. But Dumbledore brings her on to teach the trio when Hagrid can't, it's not exactly that his standards of education changed, it's just that he has different priorities (which I will get to).

(Edit: @roserainier pointed out Silvanus Kettleborn was the Care of Magical teacher since headmaster Dippett and until 1993. In Tales of Beedle the Bard, it's mentioned that Dippett considered Kettleborn incredibly reckless, which he was considering he enlarged Ashwinders and let them loose to explode around students and went on prohibition 62 times. So, really, Hagrid is pretty much the standard Care teacher Hogwarts employees it seems and Dumbledore isn't endangering the students of that class more than Dippett did).

Slughorn was replaced by Snape. While Snape is an asshole, he is a very accomplished potioneer, who, as you said, corrected the textbook Slughorn still uses (meaning Dumbledore hired a better potioneer to teach the subject in Harry's time). And Snape has many faults, but he is fair in his grading for most students (Hermione gets mostly 'O's in Potions).

Trawlany is a professor Dumbledore is keeping around for her safety and skills in divination, not for her teaching ability. So, she's a bit of an exception. That being said, Dumbledore wanted to cancel the subject entirely before she convinced him Divination is real, so, I kinda get it. I mean, he knows she is a real seer.

While we don't know much about the rest of the faculty, it appears nothing dramatic is happening in Arithmancy or Study of Ancient Runes since Hermione is quite happy with the standard there.

Muggle Studies is implied to be kinda shit, but it's likely it was that way in the Mauraders' time too. It's mostly a lack of muggleborns who want to teach the subject and pure-bloods (half-bloods raised in the wizarding world) have no idea what they are talking about. I mean, Arthur Weasley 100% took the subject when he was in school (under Headmaster Dippett) and yet he doesn't really understand muggle inventions or money. The fact Hermione doesn't complain that Muggle Studies is a sham like Divination implies Burbage probably knows more about muggles than whoever taught the subject to Arthur.

Dumbledore didn't change the standard of education or school policies between the Mauraders' generation and the Golden Trio's. at least not by much. Hogwarts was always kinda crap as a school and if I was a witch in the UK, I'd probably homeschool my children regardless of the headmaster.

I will say Dumbledore did do some changes compared to the time Arthur and Molly went to school though, as they started Hogwarts when Dippett was still the headmaster. But these changes didn't seem to change the subjects Hogwarts offers, or the standard of education there. Among them was one major improvement to Hogwarts compared to Dippett:

Dumbledore outlawed corporal punishment against students.

As we know when Arthur and Molly were in school, corporal punishment was still a thing:

Mrs. Weasley grinned, her eyes twinkling. “Your father and I had been for a nighttime stroll,” she said. “He got caught by Apollyon Pringle — he was the caretaker in those days — your father’s still got the marks.”

(GoF, Ch31)

So the caretaker before Filch did get to whip/cane students (unclear exactly what he did) like Filch wishes he could.

Now, I mentioned I'd come back to the DADA situation and Dumbledore's different priorities. We'll start with DADA since that's easier to explain:

In 1967, following his interview, Voldemort cursed the DADA position so no teacher could keep it for more than a year. So, when the Mauraders go to school, it was still the early years of the curse, meaning Dumbledore had an easier time finding qualified Defence professors. By the time Harry starts school in 1991, Dumbledore had to go through about 24 Defence professors (likely a bit more), so he's scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to Defence professors due to circumstances.

Additionally, since the rumor of the curse has spread, many possible DADA professor candidates might be apprehensive about taking the job. Again, this limits Dumbledore's pool of possible teachers.

Now, even if he was limited, he had options that would've been better than Lockhart and Umbridge (basically anyone would be better. The ghoul in the Weasley's attic would've been better). And these two choices have to do with Dumbledore's priorities, as you mentioned.

While Harry's in school, Dumbledore's first priority isn't student safety or education — it's to prepare Harry to face Voldemort. His employment choices (Hagrid, Lockhart, Umbridge (choosing not to find a professor though the real Moody was right there!)) were all meant to teach Harry something valuable. They were for Harry's sake, not anyone else's. Dumbledore actively made subpar hiring choices knowing he was sacrificing students' safety and education. His first priority is Voldemort's return and to prepare Harry for it.

He is, after all, the same guy who let Draco run around harming, and almost killing multiple students in HBP because it served his plan for Voldemort. This man is a general first and an educator second, and any declines in the education at Hogwarts are due to that. But I wouldn't call it political, per se, it's more about Harry and Voldemort specifically. He's not actively making education worse because of malicious political intent, but he sees it as his duty to make sure Harry would face Voldemort. It's much more targeted, I think.

I will also note, that the effects of these priorities are mostly contained to the DADA position, most other core subjects (Charms, Transfiguration, History, Herbology, and Astronomy) are basically the same. Care and Divination do suffer a decline too due to the staff (that were chosen not for politics, but to protect and keep the teachers close at hand), but Potions was improved, education standard-wise at least.

McGonagall and Flitwick make another point regarding the decline that comes from Harry being at school:

“I should think not,” said Professor McGonagall sharply. “How are we supposed to teach with those horrors floating around?” “Hear, hear!” squeaked tiny Professor Flitwick, whose feet were dangling a foot from the ground.

(PoA, Ch10)

When Harry's at school, things are way more hectic and tense than they are in the Maruarders' times (in part because Harry's there). This affects the teachers' ability to teach and students' ability to learn.

Ron, Hermione, and Harry (especially the latter two) are actually quite advanced compared to their year because of all the extra studying they put in for the various mysteries they've got going on. Patronus, protego, protean, etc. are all charms the trio practices way before they are taught by the Hogwarts curriculum. The Mauraders are similar. Becoming animagi is not part of the Hogwarts curriculum. Making the map is not part of the curriculum. Both groups are brilliant, but they focus on very different things due to their drastically different situations.

The Mauraders become animagi to help Remus. They made the map to play pranks and have fun.

The trio, learned most of the spells they knew beyond the curriculum to protect themselves. Hermione learned the Protean Charm to make the D.A. coins and Harry learned Patronus and Protego to defend himself and others. The trio started fighting a war way younger than the Mauraders, so the extracurricular stuff they study is more oriented towards what they need, rather than to have fun.

I will note in general, that I don't think there's that big of a difference between the generations for most subjects (which are the same 12 subjects). I'd say the average student in Harry's time isn't worse in any subject (apart from DADA, perhaps) than the average student in the Mauraders' times. It's just that many of the main characters we hear about (such as Harry, Hermione, Lily, Severus, James, and Sirius) are not the average student. They are way above the average and considered exceptional by their various teachers. While characters like Ron, Remus, and Regulus are closer to the average, they are still above/the higher end of the average. So none of them is exactly an example of the standard.

I mean, think how many main characters we had at the Slug Club due to their skills, it just goes to show how exceptional they are. The average student can't exactly be measured according to the outliers.

[hedwigette]

Harry's handwriting being close to his mother's...My man is a mama's boy!

I wonder what Malfoy's one was like...In fanfic people make it as it's neat but is it really canon ? They write Harry's handwriting as an unreadable scrawl and it is obviously not true.

Hey how are you? I was actually curious how the characters' main writing was like. I remember that Harry makes his "i" like Lily's and Ron has a bad writing but I don't remember well for characters like dumbledore, Snape, Malfoy...

Hi, I'm doing pretty good, swamped with uni, but I don't have much to complain about.

Luckily for you, I actually have some notes regarding canon character handwriting. These notes are from supplementary books (Fantastic Beasts & Tales of Bettle the Bard) which actually have the character's handwriting in them. Along with some quotes I found about character handwriting.

(Also I'm not using signatures from the movies)

Harry:

'She had made her “g”s the same way he did' (DH) - Harry's handwriting shares some letters with his mother's handwriting. Notably, the "g".

Ron:

'Ron’s untidy scrawl' (CoS)

 'said Ron, scribbling away, making his writing as large as possible' (CoS)

'Harry stared at the word “Pig,” then looked up at the tiny owl now zooming around the light fixture on the ceiling. He had never seen anything that looked less like a pig. Maybe he couldn’t read Ron’s writing' (GoF)

Hermione:

'Harry could make out Hermione’s neat writing' (CoS)

'And Hermione’s done four feet seven inches and her writing’s tiny' (CoS)

Dumbledore:

'Written in narrow, loopy writing he had never seen before' (PS)

'The narrow handwriting was vaguely familiar' (OotP)

'thin, slanting writing on the parchment' (HBP)

'were five words written in the thin, slanting handwriting that Harry recognized as Dumbledore’s' (DH)

McGonagall:

From the actual HP books we get McGonagall's handwriting as well, due to her signature being on Harry's Hogwarts letter:

Snape:

Thanks to the HBP book, we also have some notes about Snape's handwriting:

'and yet his writing was minuscule and cramped' (OotP)

'cramped handwriting' (HBP)

 'Although Harry had offered to share his book with both of them, Ron had more difficulty deciphering the handwriting than Harry did' (HBP) - I take this to mean young Snape had tiny handwriting and that might be slightly similar to Harry's own (hence his ease at reading it).

'I think the handwriting looks more like a girl’s than a boy’s' (HBP) - assuming the handwriting is small and has some flourishes. (I kina imagine Snape's and Lily's handwriting is similar, which is why I think Harry's handwriting is a little similar to the Prince's)

Hagrid:

We also have some notes regarding Hagrid's writing which is nearly eligible.

'even a scribble that looked as though it was from the Hogwarts gamekeeper, Hagrid.' (CoS)

'He recognized the untidy scrawl on the brown paper at once: this was from Hagrid' (PoA)

Tom Riddle's:

'Riddle’s reply came quickly, his writing becoming untidier, as though he was hurrying to tell all he knew' (CoS) - meaning his handwriting is quite tidy usually.

(On an unrelated note since I've been searching for mentions of writing in the books I encountered this line in PS:

Harry cheered up a bit when he found a bottle of ink that changed color as you wrote

Considering we all talk about Harry's gold cauldron, I think we need to talk about Harry's color-changing ink. More cute Harry additions to Fantastic Beasts since I found them adorable:

The kid's adorable, I don't understand how the Dursleys could keep hating him, my boy.)