#rian johnson is not an idiot

[especially-the-beans]

Glass onion is the mystery movie for overthinkers everywhere

[kraniumet]

with taste this vague I think you guys whould love guy ritchie movies

[antsypoindexter]

knives out series haters, the most oppressed class of people

[mysharona1987]

This is like Glass Onion when everyone was like “inept, idiot tech billionaire with a great sales pitch? Must be Elon Musk!”

Then Rian Johnson was like “Well, no. Not really.” (the character seems to be more of a dig at Elizabeth Holmes, imo. And the movie was made a year ago, before the Elon/twitter fiasco.)

Musk fans watching this film and instantly jumping to that conclusion says a lot about what they think of him, deep down.

[aerithisms]

i think my problem with this dw season arc accusing the audience of fanbrain for theorising about ruby is that it both feels deceitful and isn't actually that compelling from a character perspective. the season goes out of its way to build up supernatural mystery around ruby and even invokes susan more heavily than ever before in a way that is deliberately trying to get the audience to make those connections. and then it turns around and says you stupid idiot why would you ever try to connect these dots i have deliberately tried to get you to connect.

building up a mystery only for the character to be ordinary is an impossible girl arc redux only this time accusing the viewer of failing to see the humanity of the companion, whereas the impossible girl arc was turning that accusation on the doctor. 7b didn't really blame the audience for viewing clara as a puzzle and in fact several times spells out the fact that clara is perfectly ordinary before the big reveal to give the audience a chance to catch on. as 7b goes on, instead of laying the mystery on thicker, the audience just gets more and more affirmations that clara is a normal human being (rings of akhaten, journey to the centre of the tardis, hide). i found this approach compelling because it was rooted in character, focusing on the doctor's disconnection from humanity/the gendered dynamic of a man treating a woman as his manic pixie mystery to pull him out of grief. s14's meta approach of accusing the viewer feels both unfair, given it has deliberately led the viewer towards theorising, and personally less compelling to me because it wasn't tied into character in any way.

the thing about rey's parentage in tlj is that the reason rian johnson chose to go for that reveal was that it was the only answer that was interesting. none of the theories - rey is a skywalker, rey is a kenobi, and even the eventually canonical rey is a palpatine - were interesting or satisfying because they brought nothing compelling to the table for the story being told. the only satisfaction to be gained from those answers was a fanbrained "omg rey is important because she's related to that guy from the other movie." on top of that, rey desperately wants her parents to have been important, to give her life and her abandonment some kind of significance. so them being ordinary provided the most compelling trajectory for her character because it was the thing she least wanted to hear. it forced her to do the most introspection and growth, as well as tying into the film's themes about the capacity of ordinary people to be special. it wasn't just a choice made to "gotcha" the viewer, it was rooted in character.

i don't think ruby's mother being ordinary accomplishes the same thing. by invoking susan, s14 is engaging with the most egregious example of the doctor's streak of abandonment, which has potential to be very compelling in relation to ruby (and now also the doctor's) own abandonment issues. theories that ruby might be susan, or be somehow related to susan, or somehow related to the doctor, weren't just fanbrained "omg she's related to that guy i know from the classic series." they were theories genuinely rooted in character and the potential to explore both the doctor and ruby's issues with abandonment. and this is something the show willingly led fans towards by invoking susan so much in the first place. so for the show to turn around and act like they were shallow out of nowhere ideas when they were not shallow and were based on potential character conflicts the show itself deliberately invoked, feels misguided.

as well as that, ruby's mother being ordinary does not require that same growth from ruby as it did for rey because it is exactly what ruby wanted to hear. she never wanted her mother to be important, she just wanted to know who her mother was and have a connection with her. so finding out she was a normal woman who still loves her and wants to be a part of her life is everything she's ever wanted. it doesn't introduce interesting conflict for her the way rey's parents being ordinary did for her, because they were written as different characters with different hangups over their abandonment.

tl;dr i don't necessarily dislike ruby's mother being ordinary as an idea but compared to the things it was inspired by - 7b and star wars - it is not nearly as compelling in terms of how it relates to the characters or themes. and the meta angle, while conceptually interesting, doesn't quite work for me because it feels a little manipulative of the audience.

[chryza]

I would have paid good money to see the look on Rian Johnson’s face when he saw his movie about what a fucking idiot Elon Musk is was coming out at the exact same time as Twitter is crashing and burning

[queer-benoit-blanc]

Rian Johnson making a movie about a rich man who is actually an idiot and is going to run his company into the ground and it coming out whilst Elon Musk is wreaking havoc is so funny

[sweaterkittensahoy]

Honestly, half the reason I'm so psyched for Glass Onion is because it feels like Rian Johnson is being very deliberate in creating a standalone franchise. Like, all you gotta know is that Benoit Blanc is the last of the gentlemen detectives, and then Rian's gonna take you on a little journey of a style of detective story.

Knives Out (original)? That's murder-first. Think Columbo. Yes, there's a twist on the end, but Columbo had that, too.

Glass Onion? Parlor mystery. There's exactly X number of people who could have done it because all you idiots were in the parlor when one of you died.

And there are SO MANY TYPES of detective stories! And they all need different sorts of casts. But in the middle of it all, always, is the last of the gentleman detectives.

[not-so-rosyyy]

Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery (2022) - YES. YES. YES. now that's how you do a sequel! this film couldn't have come at a better time (what with how it's become so obvious to virtually everyone who's paying attention that the "billionaire geniuses" we have irl are just overgrown idiots who throw huge tantrums whenever their egos are even slightly grazed). Rian Johnson killed it with the screenplay. Daniel Craig's Benoit Blanc is still deliciously enigmatic and the accent is just as iconic. and Janelle Monae! WHAT. A. GEM.

definitely one of my favorite watches of the year. absolutely thrilled for the next one!

[i-just-like-commenting]

It just deeply impresses me that Rian Johnson made a whole movie just to call Elon Musk an idiot.

[10past12]

Thoughts after watching Glass Onion:

1.

This was written BEFORE Elon Musk's public unveiling as an actual idiot who made his fortune off others ideas?

Rian Johnson is a fortune teller!

2.

Benoit Blanc: It's a dangerous thing to mistake speaking without thought for speaking the truth. Don't you think?

I am saving this line and will use it often

3.

Are Daniel Craig's eyes CG?

[nokingsonlyfooles]

The Dark Secret of Kung Fu Panda, Part 2...

...if you're coming from a place of Western tropes and values, you need to read Shifu as a shitty teacher, or the story doesn't scan.

Oh, and also a shitty parent, a shitty student of kung fu, and a shitty student of Buddhism.

(Sorry, little dude.)

I've already unpacked the teacher part, but all these things are a result of trying to write a story set in China, that both Chinese and Western audiences will understand. They did very well! But there's always a few folks who aren't able to keep up with a complex read like this - and they don't go, "Oh well, this story wasn't for me," they get mad at the characters and the writers.

So! Let's talk more about kung fu, Buddhism, child development, tropes and subversions - and whether that shiny piece of paper Tai Lung was after actually meant something or was just an elaborate troll.

I like to go to TVTropes and read the Headscratchers. For a storyteller like me, it's like playing Narrative Minesweeper. Let's see, did anyone have trouble with this plot point? (click) Ah, not too bad. What about this one? (click)

(Check that link! This is the page for Kung Fu Panda 2! People are really upset about this!)

KABOOM! Oh, man. Okay. Let's plant a flag in that and try to figure out why it blew up so bad.

Something I've seen across stories is that audiences have a really hard time noticing that they are being lied to when characters or narrators say one thing and do another. I think it's a mirage coughed up by the suspension of disbelief required to consume a story in the first place. We see a lot of villains who are supposed to be criminal masterminds, yet to make the plot go they have to behave like utter idiots. We're willing to put up with that, as long as it seems like they're supposed to be brilliant in-universe.

Then Rian Johnson throws a character like Miles Bron at us. The whole point of Miles is we're supposed to roll with the "in-universe mastermind" tropes, but only up to a point. The message of the film rests on the audience's ability to snap out of it, pick up their critical thinking skills and go, "Yeah, this guy never did one smart thing. Just a lot of audacious things, because he's too sheltered and dumb to understand the consequences."

But if you check the Headscrachers for Glass Onion (and if you care to look at any right-wing critiques of the film), you'll find a lot of people groping for reasons Miles is smart, actually. Maybe Blanc just called him dumb to get a rise out of him! Maybe he's smart socially but dumb with business! Or vice-versa! Maybe the film is badly-written!

No, he is very dumb. Truly. And I don't think the film is badly-written. But some people just blow right trough a sign reading "STOP RIGHT HERE, THIS TROPE IS BEING SUBVERTED, THE DETOUR IS THIS WAY" stagger off the path, and wind up dead in a ditch. Metaphorically speaking.

The above Troper - who is upset by Tai Lung's lack of a redemption arc, while expecting a nuanced story where the bad guys aren't all bad - has failed to detect a nuanced story where the good guys aren't all good.

In China, audiences need a stop sign that reads "Actually, the brilliant teacher is still learning and can do even better." This isn't too jarring, especially given the relationship between Oogway and Shifu. Shifu admits Oogway is a better teacher than him, and smarter than him. Even when he doesn't understand the lesson and loses hope of ever understanding it, he doesn't blame the turtle, he blames himself for just not getting it, and prepares to clean up his mess the best way he knows how. For his part, Oogway was clearly trying to get some hard lessons into Shifu's head - up to and including, "You don't actually need me to guide you down the path, you need to start looking around and trying to understand it for yourself..."

"Bye-eeee!"

Oogway is teaching in accordance with Theravada Buddhism, which is basically the philosophical equivalent of trying to get the dog to notice you've dropped the bacon on the ground and he's not gonna get anything by sniffing your fingers.

Tai Lung's return is an emergency situation, and if Shifu's not careful he'll be trying to reach enlightenment from the Spirit Realm (which does seem doable, given that Oogway continues to train and meditate himself). So Oogway leaves Shifu a $50, says, "You will have to find bacon without me," and buggers off. Permanently. And you know what? After three films, it works!

"Ah, you have finally mastered your Pride. Never stop learning, my most stubborn student!"

On the other hand, a Western audience has much less patience for jerk-ass teachers - and while they do have experience with Trickster mentors, it's much harder for them to see where Oogway is coming from, and why he nopes out instead of just being honest when it's important! They need a much bigger stop sign that says, "SHIFU IS ACTUALLY A SLOW STUDENT AND A BAD TEACHER AND OOGWAY HAS BEEN DESPERATELY TRYING, AND FAILING, TO CORRECT THIS PROBLEM FOR DECADES." But that's unnecessary and nonsensical in China. What we ended up with is much more subtle and open to interpretation. Some people decided to interpret it as, "Oogway's a troll, Shifu's an idiot, Tai Lung got a raw deal, nobody ever admits any of this, and this movie is stupid."

It's true, nobody ever gets called a troll or an idiot - that would be incredibly disrespectful in China, so that's a nonstarter - so you have to draw your own conclusions based on what they do. We see Shifu having a lot of difficulty in picking up what Oogway is laying down. He trusts Oogway implicity and knows there is always some kind of wisdom being imparted, but he gets impatient and tries to speed up the lesson, or he grabs for the most obvious interpretation and runs, or he just gives up and falls back to something he understands a little better.

Like when he gets sick of waiting for Oogway to blow out the candles and get to the point and he douses all of them with a cool move. Oogway is modeling the behaviour he'd like to see - Shifu really needs to slow down and learn patience. But Shifu responds as if the lesson is, "My Master needs help blowing out candles!" which is just silly, but he's going too fast and not paying attention.

Now watch Po listen to Oogway... and watch Oogway listen to Po! Oogay doesn't run in and go, "We don't have time for this! Tai Lung's coming! Get your shit together!" He lets Po set the pace, reflects back his feelings, and offers a little nudge. Which Po absorbs and thinks about at his own pace, instead of pushing to understand everything as fast as possible right now. Ideally, that's how it should go, but with Shifu this approach has about as much impact as boinking croutons off a brick wall.

So it's not too difficult to imagine that Shifu let his pride get the better of him in educating Tai Lung, while ignoring multiple nudges from his own teacher, because he was just too focused on his ultimate goal and going too fast.

In this case, his ultimate goal was a shiny piece of paper his Master rolled up and stuck in a cool-looking temple, all to give some future student a nudge to help them understand, "Self-worth isn't earned or bestowed in this way, it is intrinsic." And Shifu focused on proving his worth as a teacher by trying to turn out a student who was worthy of the scroll!

"Son, I am beginning to suspect you just ain't right in the head."

How can a friend and teacher manage this without stepping off the path of Theravada Buddhism, which a Chinese audience will recognize and expect to remain consistent? The only thing to do is back off, give your student some room to screw up, and nudge him again when he's open to listening.

Unfortunately, that took a very long time. Decades. In the meantime, Tai Lung grew up expecting to make his father proud by earning the scroll.

"What do you MEAN I spent my whole life training and I'm STILL NOT GOOD ENOUGH?"

There is something that I was taught explicitly, because I learned how to teach preschoolers: it is super easy to get kids to believe your love is conditional and dependent on their ability to get good grades and perform. Like, you can swear up and down that you love your child no matter what, but if you lose your shit and take them to Disneyland when they make Student of the Month, the kid is going to draw their own conclusions. You know how Tai Lung complains about how hard Shifu drove him to train? You can do that with praise just as easily as with discipline. More easily, sometimes.

In China, that's a perfectly acceptable way to teach a child, no further explanation necessary. In the West, not so much, but the writers can't hit us over the head with how wrong it is because in China, it's fine. So we have to watch and pay attention to how they act.

In the flashbacks, we never see Shifu being anything but loving and supportive, even when Tai Lung rips off a piece of his moustache and causes him obvious pain.

We never see the leopard boy eat all of his dad's bamboo furniture and cause a freakout (presumably followed by apologies on both sides). Young Shifu seems to have two modes of parenting and teaching: "I'm proud of you" and "Wow! Great job! I'm extra proud of you!" the second of which is reserved for punching and kicking real good. If that's all his dad seems to want from him, and the solution to every problem is to train harder and punch and kick better, it's possible Tai Lung's first experience with real failure is not getting the Dragon Scroll. You know, the thing his dad named him after.

His lack of experience with failure is evident in his reaction; he has no emotional maturity, he's like a toddler throwing a temper tantrum. Shifu taught him how to punch and kick real good, and did not teach him how to deal with failure, frustration, and a lack of outside validation. That's because Shifu himself is super bad at all those things!

Kung fu is not just punching and kicking and going as hard as you can, it is listening and adapting and approaching situations with open-minded humility. When Shifu rolls up and presents his first student like an art project to be graded, Oogway knows he done messed up. All he can do is nudge them away from a lesson neither one of them is ready to learn yet, and back off.

"Ultimately, my stubborn student, this is my failure, but I'm not sure how to resolve this situation. And your kid is a ticking time bomb, do you not even see that?"

Unfortunately, Shifu's flawed teaching method has resulted in a student who knows nothing but punching and kicking, so all he can do is punch and kick. Real good. "Laying waste" to the village was a late add, to help the audience understand how badly Tai Lung melted down, but it makes perfect sense in this context. If he's not getting the validation he needs for his skill, he'll beat up the whole Valley trying to prove he's the best. And when he gets back to the Jade Palace, no, somehow he has still not punched and kicked hard enough to get what he's after, so he tries to beat up the people standing in his way. Maybe that's how you prove yourself worthy of the scroll!

Alas, it was not. And with a student too misguided and dangerous to teach - yet who still might be able to learn, and help Shifu learn - pausing his rampage for a few decades to allow Shifu some more time to get a clue was the best option Oogway had.

Thank heaven for plot devices!

It turns out, Shifu is capable of improving, through immense pain and suffering. After his failure with Tai Lung, Shifu's despair leads him to fall face first into teaching Tigress with Oogway's method...

...That is, at least he backs off and lets her learn she's going to get no validation from the outside, so she stops looking for it. That's enough to keep her from having a total meltdown when she doesn't get what she wants - it's not a betrayal, it's just par for the course. She goes off by herself, because she's learned to solve her own damn problems (as have the rest of the Five, who follow her), and she almost gets them all killed, 'cos Shifu still doesn't know how to teach humility.

It takes him a few movies - he expects to learn everything through hard work and suffering and so, inevitably, he does.

Just to hammer home how badly Shifu messed up, and how fundamentally flawed Tai Lung's understanding of kung fu is, when Po just hands him the scroll, Tai Lung doesn't get it.

Po is a Mahayana Buddhist. He always tries to enlighten his enemies. When they make it clear they're not ready for it, he'll do what he can to keep them from screwing up everyone else's chance to learn.

So Tai Lung gets yeeted direct to the Spirit Realm. But, it is possible to keep learning in the Spirit Realm, as Oogway and Kai show us in the third film. We just don't see Tai Lung again until the animated series, 'cos no matter how cute he is, he's not the protagonist.

Also, I think the writers can't help but noticed how badly Tai Lung's arc landed with some audience members. There is no good way to address that in under two hours of film. Look how long it took me to unpack it in text!

In the end, the Dragon Scroll isn't meant to be useless, or an elaborate troll from a Trickster archetype. It's a nudge in the right direction. For Po and Shifu, once they slowed down and thought about it, it landed. Tai Lung just wasn't there yet, and showing him that the scroll was nothing but a shiny piece of paper wouldn't have gotten him there, no matter when it happened. But respect to the Dragon Warrior for trying, that's just how he rolls. He's not wrong to try, but Oogway's also not wrong about enlightenment not being a thing to teach.

That's why ya boi gets Oogway's staff, and Shifu ends the film series still needing a little more time to learn.

[bravecrab]

I must say that Rian Johnson creating Glass Onion to call Elon Musk a fucking idiot is amazing.

[historywench]

Amid all the discussion on how well Rian Johnson nailed the writing of the tech billionaire character of Miles I think a lot of people are missing the other half of what makes that character so effective and that is Ed Norton’s incredible performance. Ed has long been an actor who excels at playing characters where the entire personality of the character is a misdirect. The choirboy who turns out to be a vile criminal. The insomniac office drone who is actually the leader of a violent underground movement. But with Miles is Ed working on another level, because it’s not just one switch he has to make it’s several totally different personas over the course of the film. The easy going hippy, the smug superiority complex, the innocent victim, the mastermind, the absolute fucking idiot. And Ed moves through these different personas so seamlessly that they all make perfect sense. He makes them all a unified character. In a long career of great performances this is without doubt one of his most chameleonic best.

[kvtnisseverdeen]

Like everyone in the world, I assumed Miles Bron was a complicated genius. But why? Look into the clear center of this Glass Onion...Miles Bron is an idiot.

GLASS ONION: A KNIVES OUT MYSTERY (2022) dir. Rian Johnson

[kelvintimeline]

not to still be mad about the last jedi all this time later but people expressing shock at how heinous the casting for knives out 3 rly… rly didn’t think about the implications of all the weird shit rian johnson did in that movie

the romance between a character the previous, jewish, director coded as a nazi and a teenage girl the previous director said was “mind raped” by him and like… literally was abused by him

the sidelining and idiot-izing of literallly all of his characters of color while the man who abused them is glorified

the sidelining of female characters as well, to the point of mockery, while often either abusing the characters of color themselves ooorrr sympathizing with the abusive fascist

like… yeah… you can argue it’s just fiction or the movie isn’t that deep but it’s hard to not feel this is unrelated to him casting an incel who loves andrew tate/jordan peterson, a woman who wrote a defense of her rapist friend, and a man who abused his wife and almost shot his own child... oh and another abuser

perhaps he’s been weird and my avoidance of these films has been vindicated

rian johnson is and always has been a gross person with a very skewed agenda in his stories