#rogue master theory

[causalityparadoxes]

A morsel for my lovely Rogue!Master truthers

[calmposeidon]

Okay hear me out… crack head theory coming.

what if Rogue is a Time Lord?

I’ve seen people say he might be The Master, but honestly? I don’t think he’s that unhinged. What if he’s just another Time Lord, with his own mission or backstory we don’t know yet?

Like:

He goes by a title, not a name. Classic Time Lord move—The Doctor, The Master, The Rani… The Rogue.

He clearly knows more than he’s letting on. Shows up acting like he’s already read the script.

And in Wish World, when he pops up on the TV, he’s surrounded by that bright orange lighting, which is a Gallifrey color. It’s all over Time Lord stuff.

Plus:

Wish World is also where The Rani is causing chaos. So we’ve got two mysterious, smart, stylish characters in the same episode? Big coincidence? I don’t think so.

Rogue doesn’t act like a villain or a hero—he’s got that grey, "I do what I want" Time Lord energy.

Even worse crack head theory:

What if Rogue is one of The Rani’s experiments?

Like something she created or messed with in the past, and now he’s out doing his own thing—gone rogue, literally.

[howthebestwaslost-blog]

Still not sold on the “Rogue is the Master” theory, but you can’t deny the tremendous potential for a beautiful WTF-cliffhanger

[burning-omen]

If Rogue is The Master I stg I’m blowing up everyone in the writers room

[belladeum]

I think the main thing that bugged me wrt Belinda in this finale is just. well. the character assassination. The sudden fact that, spoilers + tldr, Conrad's World!Belinda expectations of perfect motherhood are inserted onto Belinda in the True Reality when it has no previous basis.

Throughout the series Belinda has been critical and wary of the doctor, warming up to him quite suddenly in the Interstellar Song Contest as a matter of sudden life/death perspective on account of all of the things she's seen with him -- and yet in that very episode she sees him torturing someone and just kinda lets it slide. Okay, odd, but we move on.

In Conrad's world she fulfils the role of model wife and mother in a relationship with the Doctor, something ludicrous that even the two of them find funny upon reality reset. We're primed to see this world and this state as wrong. Part of Condrad's World is ye olde classic sexism. She has a child, because of course the perfect couple must have a child, the perfect family, and she must love her child because what mother doesn't love their child? And she must want a child because what woman doesn't want a child?

We've never in the series seen or heard Belinda be interested in starting a family. Even within Conrad's World she senses this situation isn't right, that her child isn't real - she doesn't have a daughter.

And yet

When the Doctor brings her into that half-world where Unit can retain their memories of both Conrad's World and the true reality belinda is still very very protective of Poppy. She still holds that romantic relationship with the Doctor "John Smith" close to her.

I can understand why she might empathetically not want this child to die, but it's just so odd to me that while everyone else can shake off their existence in Conrad's world Belinda cannot or does not. She's still the doting perfect mother, willing to sacrifice anything for her child. There's something here about motherhood fundamentally changing someone - is this good or bad. Doesn't matter, the episode moves very quickly. Belinda is kept out of the action - though it is out of kindness at least, I can see her not wanting to leave a child alone, in a box, potentially forever, even ignoring Conrad's World's reality. And the Doctor encourages this because he's projecting his desire for family - for Susan, who he seems to be ignoring and has forgotten about in lieu of Poppy existing as his apparent daughter. Post-reset back into the True(ish) Reality the idea that Ruby can remember Poppy is probably it's the Doctor's wish she still exists.

Even when Belinda tries to laugh it off having forgotten "her daughter", she's convinced that Poppy needs to exist, that she must have been happy to have her. And then the Doctor makes it so. Reality is changed so that of course Belinda wanted a daughter, had one the whole time! And of course she's happy with her family, raising her child alone whilst working full-time in medicine. It just. It just feels so unfair to just overwrite Belinda with this desire, or just acceptance, of the responisbilty of raising a child which stemmed from a bigoted man's wish of a "perfect happy world" where everyone is forced to be happy because to Doubt that this situation is anything but, and that someothing is wrong and you are, in fact, Unhappy, is Wrong and Bad. From a story standpoint the retcon works perfectly, Belinda wanted to get home so so her chlld wouldn't be alone because no-one would be there to look after he otherwise. But from a character standpoint it's diappointing.

And as a side-note which I mentioned earlier: the Doctor is so obsessed with Poppy because of the idea of him having a miraculous daughter, of a family, of not being the Last Time Lord (somewhere, Rogue and Flood!Rani are rolling their eyes at his dramatics) is very strange when he literally has had contact from the very alive Susan. Unless we're meant to assume that was a psychic projection from Belinda (who he thought was dead at the time) or of Poppy, from the future, wanting to be brought into existence... IDK. The Doc could have easily used Poppy as a way to want to search for Susan, but he didn't. We've just kind of. Forgotten her whole appearance. Very odd.

Still waiting on her to be The Boss.

tldr sexism? weh.

[bugeater77]

Why I think rogue is the master

expecting trouble ?.... looking for a quick escape.... he has knowledge the others dont

His outfit extremely reminiscent of the eighth doctor in a different color, and we know the master HAS been in the doctor's wardrobe

apparently theres a plot twist, but the rogue being against the doctor clearly isn't it, as it's in the trailer

i believe his identity is his true plot twist and he has been seen camping out in previous times multiple times in the series, disguises are like his whole thing

This is probably a stretch but in the trailer the doctor yells "YOU CAD!" at him, cad meaning someone who mistreats women (i'm not british correct me if im wrong)

and who is famous for mistreating women???

harold "it's always the women" saxon

another reference to saxon, his iconic song "voodoo child" that he plays is by the band ROGUE TRADERS

the final clue is in this instagram post from russel T davies, with the caption "here he comes" with emojis of two hearts and a blue square

sacha dhawan's instagram post hinting at his arrival had something similar,

and most importantly THE TWO HEARTS. The pink heart differentiating him from the doctor, saying this is not our usual two hearted individual.

finally, the rogue itself means unpredictable and mischievous which is literally the definition of the master's character

look at the similar as well, "villain" really sticks out to me as well as the words under the first definition, because that is exactly how the master is treated.

he does unforgivable things but there is always something bringing him and the doctor together (hence best enemies)

[deadhawke]

This list just comes from the many theories I’ve seen floating around and I’m curious what others think!

[dandelionjack]

not even halfway through rowan’s mega-essay yet, but every time i catch myself thinking that it’s far fetched and ridiculous, i remember that rogue literally travels in a bird-shaped spaceship and we don’t know how the chuldur (bird folk) arrived on earth. so it doesn’t take a genius to realise that there’s more to him than we were ever told. i don’t think he’s the master but he’s definitely a villain and we’ll be seeing more of him. and the more i read about & consider both his and the chuldurs’ motives, actions and behaviours — cosplayers, the lot of them — the more i realise he must have been in league with them. not a single chuldur was killed. he got to sacrifice himself for the doctor in a showy river-esque gesture and tag him with what is presumably a tracker ring. it’s all very neat and tied with a bow. this man orchestrated the chuldur invasion to trap the doctor where he wanted him. i do think he’s after the doctor, both for a bounty and for sex, series 6 river song style. this relationship will just keep unraveling

[intuitive-revelations]

Now that Shalka!Doctor has been acknowledged in the show, I am 100% back in on my old theory that he:

a) is a post War in Heaven Ninth Doctor (linking with his intended backstory with the Time Lords in the matrix),

b) is the same incarnation as the "Cabinet of Light" Doctor, with the Eighth Doctor being the one who was betrayed and shot in the back,

c) erased himself in restoring Gallifrey / splitting the timeline from the War, but due to the intricate timelines is kinda remembered by the Doctor as another life within Eight's lifetime. This is also why he shows up in With All Awry / Now or Thereabouts in the Eleven Day Empire with the post Ancestor Cell amnesiac Eighth Doctor and the post Time War Ninth Doctor.

(Weirdly this is also very similar to the recent fate of the Nicholas Briggs Doctor - what this means, I don't know. It's interesting that this may be a pattern that repeats: the Briggs!Doctor erases himself to bring back Gallifrey, the Shalka!Doctor erases himself to bring back Gallifrey... if they hadn't managed to 'trick out time' this would have been the fates of the New Who Doctors too in Day of the Doctor... erasing themselves to give their wartime incarnation a new future...)

While I'm all in that he links somehow to the post-War universe, this does leave us in an awkward position where his exact existence depends not just on exactly how that happened, but also leaves us with the question of where exactly he emerges from the whole mess.

My original interpretation was that he was simply a post Gallifrey Chronicles Ninth Doctor, who was later erased restoring Gallifrey,

But I also really like the idea that the Jacobi!Master seen in Scream of the Shalka is the "same" incarnation we meet in the Time War / Utopia, even if his history might be quite different. Compare this with the post biodata virus Fourth Doctor, who was born under very different conditions, but is still effectively the incarnation we know. While this works extremely well with the interpretation that Romana III / Trey's Gallifreys are one and the same and the War started not during the Grey Eminence erased VNAs!Romana Presidency, but the delayed BF!Romana Presidency, it does somewhat clash with my original idea.

Assuming their timelines sync up (which tbf isn't necessarily the case, especially as the War Master has been zipping his way all over the timeline - plus we have the 'child' War Master to account for) this would seemingly place the Shalka Doctor MUCH later in the timeline: nearly to the point of Night of the Doctor (or at least around the time of the current Eighth Doctor audios), with the Android Jacobi!Master still succeeding Macqueen.

But as far as we can tell, Shalka doesn't really fit with the future Doctors during the War (the ones leading up to the Relic anyway, though we may also need to note the rejected "The War" novel that would have featured COFD!Thirteen too). I guess he could emerge from one of the other(?) alternative Eights, like "Grandfather Paradox" or the Infinity Doctor? This does somewhat go against the idea of him still being part of the Doctor's history though.

Hmm....

I guess for now, my interpretation has to be that the Shalka!Doctor is indeed post-EDAs, and the Shalka!Master is a remnant of the War, from the Doctor's future, with the timelines indeed still being out of sync? This does at least continue to work well with the idea that Gallifrey is still around in the post Ancestor Cell Eighth Doctor's "present" but he's still living in the unerased War timeline - so the Shalka!Master is native to the post-War universe, but the Shalka!Doctor is not.

[causalityparadoxes]

Dungeon Master nation: Will you accept You'll be Back as sung by Jonathan Groff as your universe ordained Doctor/Master song or will you refuse the call of fate

[yournewlodger]

Look all I'm saying is the last time there was a guy who had self-sacrificial tendencies, had kissed the Doctor at some point, had a name that started with "Ro" and we all thought he was the Master, we all looked like idiots because it turned out he was just somebody's husband.

[lokittystuckinatree]

Ok our fandom has been circulating theories on the identity of Rogue. I’m curious what you guys think

[canonsensical]

Petition to start using "is X character the Rani?" to mean "are they a pre established character other than who they say they are?", rather than specifically The Rani.

Is Harold Saxon the Rani? Yes

Is Donna the Rani? No

Is Ruth the tour guide the Rani? Yes

Is Dan the Rani? No

Are Rogue and Mrs Flood the Rani? Very possibly

[one-paper-bag]

“rogue is a pre-hartnell doctor” “rogue is the master” you do realise he got his name from a GAME

[aletterinthenameofsanity]

if rogue doesn't become the master I'm flipping this table

[rowanthestrange]

We know Doctor Who Is A TV Show but not yet for what purpose. I raise to you:

The Master is directing it (probably Dungeon Master style - you can manoeuvre pieces but not fully control them). The Master named himself for a reason, thus in a world of Salt he is The Master. He has temporarily written himself out while he works, and keeps adding references to himself.

Obvious nitpick is ‘Why wouldn’t he make himself the main character?’

…But what if he tried to make the main character into himself.

The next logical step along the path Dhawan!Master was walking on.

I hypothesise these episodes were intended by the Master to start gaslighting the Doctor into thinking he’s the Bad Guy/Devil i.e. him.

Your ship is a Devil’s ship. (And you’re both shagging her).

“A storm is coming” used to describe Sutekh, “the oncoming storm” famously describing the Doctor.

The Doctor became superstitious he brought death, superstitions are canon, so now the TARDIS literally brings Death.

The Master’s Vainglorious theme being used with Sutekh-in-the-TARDIS and Sutekh manifesting.

“I must become a monster.”

“The Lord god Death itself” - didn’t need the ‘Lord’ there but ok.

“And that’s how you win Sutekh, because you’ve turned me into this!”

“I am the one that brings death.”

So if via forceful mirroring, the Doctor can be made to believe he’s the Bad Guy/devil, he will become the Master.

Then the Master gets to show up and be the main character, Doctor Who.

And if he can’t do that? Well, at least the Doctor’s show is now over.