#sam & cas + moral flexibility

[shallowseeker]

My favorite new thing is that even when Cas was having a psychological breakdown, he still found a way to rag on Sam about his annoying personality.

[scoobydoodean]

ok so I deeply love and respect your thoughts on supernatural because the majority of them line up with what I've been thinking for years but you said something the other day that I keep turning over in my brain and it was something along the lines of carver liking dean more than sam - I know you're in the middle of rewatching s4 but I would love to hear you expound on that (if you have time) because I remember being in the fandom while carvernatural was airing and it was pretty much when the deangirl exodus started. in fact I think people tore into him worse than dabb even 😭

feel free to hold onto this until later when you start the carver seasons if you wish :)

<3 I'll go ahead and answer this one, because it's more of a "broad strokes" thing for me, and I've been rewatching very slowly (on purpose) so that could be a very long wait.

This is so funny because I can just picture Sam fans reading it and turning red and their blood boiling with the fire of a thousand suns but the TL;DR is that season 8-11 (Carver era) broad strokes to me are:

Sam sucks and is a worse brother and person than Dean.

Sam spends the first two seasons of Carver's run thinking he's a better person than Dean anyway and then the second two knowing he sucks, deciding to embrace his moral flexibility to keep Dean alive no matter the cost, and trying to mend things.

Dean is circled by many potential suitors who also in a sense represent Sam replacements because Sam sucks: Benny, Cas, Crowley, and Amara.

Dean knows that Sam sucks and part of him wants to get tf away from him very badly but another part of him feels guilty for wanting that. Family is suffering. Family is a chain around your neck keeping you tied to them via guilt. (Demon Dean represents the desire for escape, as does Amara).

Everybody wants to be with Dean, be Dean, and/or be loved by Dean. Dean is love. Dean is the world. Dean is the reason for existing. Everybody is lovesick about him. Sam is just there.

Sam needs to stop blaming Dean for so many things and learn to own his own choices.

That was fun to write down.

Longer commentary/explanation below the cut.

Season 8 (Carver's first season) literally begins with a Sam character assassination. It begins with us learning that Sam knowingly left Kevin to spend the rest of his life kidnapped and tortured without even telling a soul what happened to him. Not only did he abandon Dean and Cas as well but he didn't even look for them, and refuses to give a satisfying answer as to why.

Season 8 Sam's abandonment as distinct from previous behavior

I have had people this year who I love and respect tell me they don't view this as a character assassination and say they believe this is in character for Sam. I simply do not agree with that. I talk about this as it relates to Kevin here.

Sam has displayed selfishness and a big ego at many points in the series up to season 8. He's told a lot of lies (sometimes to the point of gaslighting), he's gone behind Dean's back to do things that affect Dean's life, he's taken traumatic experiences Dean opened up to him about and ultimately harmed Dean with them, he's shown resentments and anger, he's displayed jealousy, he's displayed a sense of superiority. He has never abandoned his brother to die without even trying. The Sam of season 3 would eviscerate season 8 Sam for this.

Sometimes Sam says and does things he shouldn't, but his crimes do not include "abandoning Dean to die without even looking for him" up to season 8. Many of his crimes happen at least partly because he really really doesn't want Dean to die or is desperate to save his life. He lets go of his anger at John and returns to make sure Dean is safe in 1.11. He refuses to give up and finds a way to save Dean in 1.12. In 1.22, he's willing to put John's life at risk for revenge, but in 2.01 he gets into an outright screaming match with John in the hospital under the belief that John's prioritizing the demon over Dean. Sam spends all of season 3 raging and angst-ing about not being able to save Dean to the point of considering and doing some shady as hell things/abandoning some of his more stalwart moral stances (3.05, 3.11, 3.15, 3.16). Dean's death and later, the desire to secure his safety/future, is one of the catalysts for Sam's descent into drinking demon blood (3.09, 3.16, 4.04, 4.09, 4.12). When he dies in "Swan Song", he urges Dean to pursue a normal, safe, life because he knows that at that point in time, Dean wants to get out but has always felt trapped (2.09, 2.10, 2.20, 3.01, 4.12, 4.16). Even Soulless Sam (who isn't the same as regular Sam) tried to look for Dean in 6.09 "Clap Your Hands If You Believe"—it was simply that when leads for the night dried up, he hooked up with someone because he had nothing more to go on and in soulless Sam's head that was the reasonable thing to do. But soulless Sam also certainly isn't representative of the real Sam—the fact that he doesn't care as much is supposed to point us to differences between him and regular Sam. Season 8 opens with Sam abandoning Dean in a context that makes him arguably worse than his soulless self.

(I talk about why Sam actually abandons everyone in season 8 in a very long post here).

Season 8 and 9 more broadly

So Carver has Sam abandon Dean to die without even trying. Then he has Sam refuse to give any kind of actually reasonable explanation that makes sense to anyone who was paying attention. Then he has Sam say that he's going to leave the life and Dean needs to get over it and accept that Sam's new life will not include contact with Dean (just like his life at Stanford didn't). While saying he's going to leave, he still wants to exert control over Dean's relationships and leverages the threat of leaving (as if he were going to stay) to get Dean to shut up about Sam abandoning him and then again to try and get Dean to cut ties with Benny. He wants to kill Benny before knowing a single thing about him. He assigns someone (Martin) who he knows is mentally unstable and has a more black and white perception of monsters to track Benny and gets Martin killed. He watches Martin knock Dean unconscious and chain him up in a room and doesn't stop it because he wants Benny dead that bad, but then has the audacity to act as if Dean sending him a fake text is worse than Sam literally chaining him up in a room to prevent Sam from killing an innocent person (someone Sam would normally—btw—defend based on episodes like 2.03 and 4.04 or even a few episodes ago with Kate in "Bitten"). He tells Amelia he wants to fight for their relationship then the moment Dan says they should leave the choice to Amelia, he leaves so that it becomes his choice, and then he returns for one episode just to be a homewrecker. He insists on doing The Trials while promising to survive them and giving a big speech about how he's going to save Dean from his own suicidal ideation and then drops the promise as if it never existed two episodes later. Sam loses confidence in himself to complete The Trials and then acts like Dean is the one who doesn't believe in him because Dean is caring for him and insisting he rest and this is an unforgivable offense. At the end of the season, he basically says he's going to commit suicide because Dean has friends besides him. He acts as if he deserves to be Dean's most trusted confidant after an entire season of him being an absolutely fucking terrible brother and acts like Dean is just a big meanie whose feelings are irrational.

After all of this, he has the audacity, in season 9, to suggest that Dean is a bad person who can't stand the thought of being alone. He tells Dean he's the worst person ever and they can only be work partners from now on because Dean is so so bad and evil for stopping him from committing suicide and then not telling him about Gadreel. At the end of the season he admits this was a lie. He just wanted to punish Dean (9.23).

I can see how—if you were watching live at the time (I started watching when season 11 was airing) you'd lose hope. You'd quit the show over all of this, because it seems to go on forever. It's like torture. I would drop kick season 8 Sam into a pit full of lava without hesitation so I get it. If I believed that Carver was actually saying "Yes so true Dean is The Worst™️ and Sam is morally superior <3" for two seasons straight I'd quit the show too. But that isn't what he's saying. We're supposed to read between the lines and realize how unbelievably full of shit Sam is—how deeply selfish and hypocritical he's being. How yes—Dean has made mistakes—but Sam is NOT a better person than him and has gotten away with some absolutely rancid garbage. And season 10 and 11 go on to beat you over the head with it if you didn't get it the first time.

Season 10 and 11

Season 10 opens with this dialogue from a demon:

I heard the rumors. I said "no, that can't be." A Winchester, one of us? But it's true, isn't it? Whatever soul you had; whatever boy scout code you cuddled up to at night; it's all gone. Leaving what? Look at you!

We're meant to think she's talking about Dean who just woke up with black eyes, but then the camera cuts to Sam torturing her, demanding to know where Dean is.

In 10.03, we learn that Sam talked a man (Lester) into selling his soul so he could use him as bait. Demon Dean ends up being assigned to fulfill Lester's deal (to kill his wife for cheating on him). Dean immediately clocks Lester as having cheated on her first and kills Lester for being an insufferable hypocrite... and while he's doing it, I'm pretty sure he's also thinking of Sam's flaming hypocrisy.

SAM: I never meant— DEMON DEAN: Who cares what you meant?! That line that we thought was so clear between us and the things that we hunted, ain’t so clear is it? Wow. You might actually be worse than me! I mean, you took a guy at his lowest, used him, and it cost him his life and his soul. Nice work.

NOTE: 10.03 also recalls 4.21—an episode Sam fans have always tended to emphasize as a "Dean crime" episode where Dean risks Sam's death to force a detox. Sam does the reverse—pumping Dean full of human blood here in 10.03 and explicitly risking his death.

Sam gets Suzie killed in "The Werther Project" while searching for The Book of the Damned.

SAM I’m sorry, okay? I’m so sorry. SUZIE Lot of good “sorry” does me. Look at me. Look….at….me. [She points to her corpse.] There she is. The first casualty of your misguided mission. But what’s another human life to you? Anything’s worth it, as long as you two make it out alive. And how’s that search going? Any closer to a cure? SAM This isn’t real. You’re not real. SUZIE You think Dean’s the wild card, the loose cannon. But don’t you see? Making deals with witches, opening Pandora’s box down there? You’re the reckless one. You’ll do anything to keep clinging to that doomed brother of yours. How many more will die, Sammy? You know it. You have to be stopped. And the only one who can stop you is you!

A few episodes later, Sam orders Oskar's death for a spell to remove the Mark of Cain. I've seen hilarious posts before about how he had no choice but to do this because MoC Dean is so scawy and bad but that quite explicitly is not his motivation. They could have done so many other things. Throw him into space. Bury him in a really deep hole. Put him in something like The Cage. But Sam didn't like any of those options, because all of them meant being without his brother, and he's realized he doesn't want to be without him no matter the cost (10.18).

SAM So, awhile back, we had a chance to, um…close the gates of Hell. And in order to do that, I would’ve had to die. And, I was okay with that, and I am okay with that, but Dean was not. And so, he uh… CHARLIE He saved you. SAM Yeah, he saved me. CHARLIE And let me guess, in doing so, he did something you didn’t want, and that pissed you off. And you said something that hurt him? SAM Yeah, that sounds about right. [...] SAM You know, when Dean came to get me at school, I-I told myself… one last job, you know? One more job. And then when – when I, um…. When I lost Jess, I, again, told myself one more job. There’s always one more job, you know? And one more job, and one more job, and then I was gonna go back to law and – and to my life. CHARLIE You were the Dread Pirate Roberts of hunting. SAM Yeah. I guess I really understand now that….this is my life. I love it. But I can’t do it without my brother. I don’t want to do it without my brother. And if he’s gone, then I don’t…. CHARLIE I got it. I-I do.

This all culminates in 10.23, where a very mentally unstable MoC Dean attempts to reason with Sam about them both being evil and needing to take themselves out:

DEAN: Remember when we were in that church, making Crowley human, about to close the Gates of Hell? Well, you sure as hell were ready to die for the greater good then. SAM: Yeah, and, Dean, you pulled me back. DEAN: And I was wrong. You were right, Sam. You knew that this world would be better without us in it. SAM: No, no, no, wait a second. You're twisting my words here, Dean. DEAN: Why? Because we -- we track evil and kill it? The family business? Is that it? Look at the tape, Sam. Evil tracks us. And it nukes everything in our vicinity -- our family, our friends. It's time we put a proper name to what we really are and we deal with it. SAM: Wait a second. We are not evil. Listen... We're far from perfect, but we are good. That thing on your arm is evil, but not you, not me. DEAN: I let Rudy die. How was that not evil? I know what I am, Sam. But who were you when you --when you drove that man to sell his soul... Or when you bullied Charlie into getting herself killed? And to what end? A-a good end? A just end? To remove the Mark no matter what the consequences? Sam, how is that not evil? I have this thing on my arm, and you're willing to let the Darkness into the world. SAM: You were also willing to summon death to make sure you could never do any more harm. You summoned me because you knew I would do anything to protect you. That's not evil, Dean. That's not an evil man. That is a good man crying to be heard, searching for... some other way.

Dean is saying a lot of shady shit here, but some of what he's saying... isn't wrong?

Sam is willing to let The Darkness destroy the world, and he does, and then standing in the aftermath of a town being destroyed by the force he unleashed, Sam says:

SAM: I unleashed a force on this world that could destroy it . . . to save you. DEAN: And I told you not to. SAM: And I'd do it again. In a second, I would do it again.

Thousands of people are dying and Sam says he would do it again. This post about Sam's actions versus Dean stopping Sam from closing the gates of hell is highly relevant.

Season 11 continues with Sam taking a little more responsibility for his own decisions, while praying for Dean to live (11.02):

SAM: So . . . I know it's been a long time, but . . . Dean and I, we've -- we've been through a lot of bad. But this is different. This is my fault, and I don't know how to fix it. And if I have to die, I've made my peace with that, but . . . Please. Dean deserves better. Dean deserves a life. There are people out there, good people, who are going to suffer because of me, and I am not asking you to clean up my mess. Hell, I don't even know if you're out there, but . . . If you are . . . And if you can hear me, I, um . . . We need your help, God. We need to know there's hope. We need a sign.

And then there's the VERY long-awaited apology:

SAM When I was with Lucifer, he, um... He showed me things. It was like a highlight reel of my biggest failures. DEAN Yeah, he was messing with you. That's what he does. SAM Give me a sec. I should've looked for you. When you were in Purgatory, I... I should've turned over every stone.

Family (Sam) as chains

While all of this is happening, we also have Benny and Cas and Crowley and Amara.

Benny is contrast—someone whose goodness and selfless loyalty only makes Sam's horrible flaws stand out more sharply in season 8. Under the influence of the specter, Dean says, "Benny has been more of a brother to me this past year than you have ever been" and Sam can't stand it. It haunts him so bad he tries to kill Benny, and can't get over it even after the end of the season when Benny is fucking dead. He is unable to accept that the contrast between himself and Benny is his own fault.

Crowley and Dean's flirtations begin in season 9, as Sam suffocates Dean, and at the end of the season, Crowley has literally convinced Dean to run away with him. In 10.01, there is a delightful phone call where Crowley rubs it in Sam's face that Dean is with HIM:

SAM I don't know how you did this, what kind of... Black-magic stunt you pulled, but hear me --I will save my brother or die trying. CROWLEY You know what tickles me about all this? It's what's really eating you up. You don't care that he's a demon. Heck, you've been a demon. We've all been demons. No, it's that he's with me and he's having the time of his life. You can't stand the fact that he's mine. SAM He's not your pet. CROWLEY My pet? He's my best friend, my partner in crime. They'll write songs about us, graphic novels. “The Misadventures of Growley and Squirrel." Dean Winchester completes me, and that's what makes you lose your chickens.

It's this cruel callback to Sam's jealousy of Benny and Cas in season 8—how Crowley convinced Dean to finally ditch his smothering, controlling brat of little brother who can't stand him having friends, and now Dean is having the time of his life howling at the moon. The problem is, Dean also feels a little bit like maybe Crowley wants to control him too, and that isn't working for him.

Amara in season 11 goes on to further speak on terrible brothers who think they're better than you, who leave you betrayed and diminished, who abandon you. She's raging against the concept of family as chains—she wants revenge... but all the while she's in pain because she still loves her brother. Amara's attraction to Dean is based on that commonality—what she feels is a shared experience and how she wants to cut the last remaining pieces of love she feels for her brother away so she can finally be free of the pain of him—and she doesn't care if she destroys everything—including herself—in the process. (See: Dean slowly losing his identity through the MoC arc). Sam and Dean's relationship is in rehab over this whole season though, and so Dean's role ends up being to convince Amara not to destroy herself—to instead do what Sam and Dean have done and make up and work on improving their relationship.

[americachavez]

did cas really tell dean to kneel before their new god? did that actually happen? i thought him beating the shit out of dean in that alley was the most unrestrainedly horny thing this show had ever done ACTUALLY you know what scratch that new question: top horny moments from the cw's supernatural (2005 - 2020)

getting this ask feels like my sins of the last week have been weighed against the Trials I Have Gone Through since the premier of supernatural on the wb in september of 2005 and I’m not sure if it is a punishment or reward

some notes before we begin:

the ep with dean’s male siren was like, conceptually horny but not actually that horny because the dude was uglie. I’m sorry to this man

all you sam girls out there. I respect you but I do not respect jared padalecki who is JUST tall and has zero sex appeal. but those eps where he’s like, drinking ruby’s blood and then eating her pussy are. you know. I’ll give you that

I am ONLY UP TO SEASON 10 so fair warning this is not comprehensive but the horniness does seem to drop off sharply after the mark of cain is no longer in play lol gotta love a good demon murder tattoo plot

this is easily the most insane thing I’ve ever done, including the destiel manifesto

S1 EP12: the scene where dean gets healed by the faith healer, on his knees with a hand in his hair and looking somewhere between religious ecstasy, brain death and an orgasm. starting this list off great

S1 EP22: azazel possessing john winchester. no I will not explain further if u know u know <3

S3 EP10: dean being taunted by a dream version of himself, this is where we first got the daddy’s blunt little instrument line. still burned in my hippocampus a good 13 years later thank yew

S4 EP1: dean crawling out of his own grave covered in grave dirt. hot. the HANDPRINT. HOT. also tangent but this reveal after the s3 finale was WILD back in 2008 I hollered in my dorm room after canvassing for obama. simpler times man

S4 EP 1: cas’ intro scene. the barn. the shadow wings. the hair??? getting stabbed in the chest by the man you just pulled out of hell. getting aaaallll up in that personal space. his little eyebrow. “you don’t think you deserve to be saved.” OUTRAGEOUSLY FLAMING

S4 EP02: “I dragged you out of hell I can throw you back in.” <<< this angel tops. mark dean down as scared and horny etc

S4 EP16: this ENTIRE EPISODE but specifically the part where dean tortures alastair as some kind of foreplay and then alastair kicks his ass. carved you into a new animal. jesus.

S4 EP16: wait I forgot about the part where cas also gets his ass kicked and looks all....hm. dazed and covered in blood while he’s on his knees and about to die. yeah.

S5 EP4: I mean this entire ep is unfairly horny considering everyone is dying of a zombie plague and hasn’t showered in like, 4 years but if I had to pick one hmmm. the dean/dean interrogation scene with the panty kink yeah I know it’s not original but hm. it happened. also misha collins just being able to convey that CAS IS A FLEXIBLE SLUT with a single roll of his shoulders. who SAYS this man can’t act!!!!!

S5 EP18: the ALLEY SCENE. DEAN DOESN’T FIGHT BACK. CAS HOLDS HIM UP OFF THE GROUND AND THEN THROWS HIM ACROSS THE ALLEY. WHY DID EVERYONE THINK CAS COULDN’T TOP. you all had brainworms.

S5 EP18: when cas locks dean in the panic room to stop him from saying yes to michael and “well cas not for nothing but the last person who looked at me like that I got laid” I hate this show. wait I think the blow me cas line is in this episode too what the fuck were they on here

S6 EP5: the scene where dean gets turned into a vampire. between the old dude who I think calls dean a pretty boy (??) and soulless sam....watching??? no ******* but there were just some absolutely foul energies in that scene and I still do not understand WHAT they were thinking

S6 EP20: cas doing a double smite on two demons by slamming them to the ground and then shoving another demon back in its vessel and then smiting him in the same motion. TOP. ENERGY.

S6 EP22: season 6 is possibly cas’ horniest season because he’s like, going through angel puberty after getting his first boner for dean, but the final cas eps are. whoof. cas eats a bunch of souls and proclaims himself to be a new god in order to handle said boner, and then the season ends with cas telling them to bow down and profess their love to him, their new lord, or he will destroy them. note: the way this is framed makes it look like cas is only staring at dean while he says this, even though sam and bobby are also there. the season ends with dramatic zooms on both cas and dean’s faces respectively. this made me actively regret ditching this show after s5 lol

S8 EP??: literally EVERY SINGLE PURGATORY FLASHBACK. cas dean and benny are all purgatory hot in the “pop 10 cranberry pills and risk the UTI” kind of way but also. dean being the hot girl bottom between two tops who hate each other. I really. whew. I need to go take a shower.

S8 EP17: if I get canceled for including the crypt scene on this list I blame you bud. but dean on his knees begging a brainwashed cas to stop killing him WAS sexy. how many times has dean been on his knees in this list wait there’s another one coming up next jsldjfsldkjf

S9 EP2: abaddon getting dean on his knees (YEAH) and pulling his hair and praising him for always coming when called HELLO???? the only thing that ruins this is dean says “I can’t tell if we’re gonna fight or make out” because this is the CW and they won’t let him say fuck

S9 EP6: ah. this entire episode is Emotionally Horny but the horny horny part is when they’re in the car and dean is telling cas to unbutton his shirt and. watches. I know this was on my destiel manifesto but I need it here too

S9 EP9: cas, covered in blood, slitting another angel’s throat and eating his grace after getting tortured. that shot alone made me understand why this website was so goddamn horny for misha collins for nearly a damn decade

S9 EP11: MARK OF CAIN BABEY. cain watching dean beat up a bunch of demons as an audition for taking on the mark, while crowley also is a fucking voyeur to the whole thing. cain is also a hot silver fox with daddy energies. I said what I said

S9 EP 16: dean getting the first blade. he’s chained to a pillar and being menaced by a foppish dandy who wants to add him to his “collection” (WOW). dean then kills him with the blade and whew. murder is sexy sometimes

S9 EP21: dean being pinned against a wall by abaddon’s power, then using the mark of cain to break her hold, calling the first blade to him psychically and then killing her. god the mark of cain is hot

S9 EP23: dean waking up with the demon eyes NUT

S10 EP2: demon dean beating up that dude with the boring backstory and kicking his ass. really was a go on baby I got your flower moment because I hated that dude and I love demon dean

S10 EP3: demon dean being chained up and taunting sam about how his brother is gone, then hunting sam through the bunker. demon dean in general was VERY fun for me, someone who loves trash

S10 EP9: dean going berserk and killing a bunch of pedophile rapists/child abusers. I’m sorry I know this show is trying to preach morality at me about monsters and unnecessary murder and humanity or whatever but we blew past that like 8 SEASONS AGO. also the mark of cain is sexy

S10 EP14: the rest of this list is really gonna be mark of cain stuff isn’t it look I’m here to have fun. cain and dean’s fight. cain continuously tossing his mane of hair back and taunting dean with the picture of what he’s going to become, who he’s going to kill. dean begging cain to tell him that he can stop, and then ultimately killing him. rip daddy.

S11 EP4: again I have not watched this however. every shot of this episode is PRESTIGE TELEVISION because driving a muscle car is sexy. and especially the shot of dean all beat to hell and begging his car to start and giving her a little kiss from his fingers to her dash. ugh. masculinity.

S12 EP10: the bearded salt-and-pepper daddy look returns, only it’s an angel this time and he’s wearing a vest and shirtsleeves and he swordfights with a hot redheaded lady in a suit and an eyepatch. this show is good sometimes!!! and oh fuck lol I just realized this is the same guy who played krissy’s hot hunter dad in s7 probably the first guy who’s hotter as an angel than a hunter. huh.

S12 EP 11: dean riding larry the mechanical bull to “broomstick cowboy.” I have no idea where this factors into the ep but I have seen. the youtube clip

S13 EP23: from what I can tell s13 is way more emotionally horny than boner horny, although dean burning cas’ body was sexy. but the horniest part was dean saying yes to michael and then michael taking over and saying “thanks for the suit.” we are going to ignore the silliest fight scene in existence as well as the final shot ending on a FREEZE FRAME like a goddamn tiktok

S14: not gonna pick a specific moment because I have not watched yet!!! but michael dean is hot. idk why michael is weirdly hot and I cannot stand any iteration of lucifer on this television programme. it should be the reverse but I’m forever an older sibling stan apparently. someone who is catholic could probably explain this better.

S15 EP13: genevieve padalecki and danneel ackles fight flirting as ruby and anael I CANNOT BELIEVE THEY HELD OUT ON THIS TILL THE LAST SEASON

I know I am missing things but this is already an absolutely incomprehensible screed. I know I’m missing shit from the latter seasons but give me time I’m pacing myself

[shieldeus-moved]

𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗥𝗔𝗖𝗧𝗘𝗥  𝗦𝗧𝗔𝗧𝗦  𝗙𝗥𝗔𝗠𝗘𝗪𝗢𝗥𝗞 . please  repost  don’t  reblog !

    stats

full name:  castiel / cassiel / kafziel / kasfa’il

nickname(s) / aliases:  cas , clarence , emmanuel + others.

age:  billions and billions and billions and billions (semi-quote)

birthday:   n/a.

species:  angel , seraph.

nationality:  n/a.

gender:  genderless.

preferred pronoun(s):   he/him in accordance to his current vessel , they/them.

romantic orientation:  demiromantic.

sexual orientation:  asexual.

religion:  abrahamic.

occupation:  bluntly put , angel. kinda hunter on occasions.

status:  active , been dead several times though.

fandom:  supernatural , but very crossover friendly.

face claim(s):  misha collins for the time being.

    relationships

parents:  god / chuck shurley.

siblings:  all the other angels and archangels. gabriel is his favorite, but don’t tell him.

family:  jack kline is his biological nephew , and adopted son.  amara is....an aunt of sort , technically.

significant other(s):  romantically? no one :( kiss him you cowards.

children:  jack. he cares for claire as a daughter.

closest friends:  sam , dean , balthazar. ( ! )

rivals:  crowley , in a way.

enemies:  naomi , lucifer. metatron , but holds no more grudge for him.

    physical  traits

eye color(s):  blue.

hair color(s):  dark brown.

height:  180-ish cm / around 320 m in his true form  ( ... lord help me with american measures )

body build:  fit , broad-shouldered.

notable physical traits:  n/a.

    phobias  &  diseases

phobia(s):  naomi.

mental disorder(s):  ptsd , has been suicidal.

when and how was this diagnosed?  never , though he talked with dean of his suicidal ideation.

physical disease(s):  wings damaged as of s8

when was this diagnosed and/or how did it happen?  diagnosed , never , and castiel hasn’t shown his wings ever since. the damage was due to the fall from heaven to earth caused by metatron.

    personality

usual mood/expression:  quiet , expression often unreadable , appears melancholic.

moral alignment:  sways between neutral good / lawful neutral / chaotic good.

jung:  istj the logistician / isfj the defender.

enneagram:   lot of the individualist , bit of the loyalist.

four temperaments:  sanguine-melancholic.

hogwarts house:  huffleclaw. u cant take the ‘claw’ away from him.

top five tropes:   fish out of water ,  our angels are different ,  the comically serious ,  the world is just awesome ,  eldritch abomination ,  my god,  what have i done ? ,  heartbroken badass ,  brainwashed and crazy ,  now, let me carry you , martial pacifist ,  ain't too proud to beg ,  well-intentioned extremist ,  adorkable ,  the atoner ,  hero of another story ,  nerves of steel ,  back from the dead ,  beware the nice ones ,  broken angel ,  the captain ,  clothes make the legend ,  defends against their own kind ,  guilt complex ,  have you seen my god ? ,  nice job breaking it,  hero ! ,  kill the ones you love ,  martyr without a cause ,  knight in sour armour , rebellious spirit ,  torture technician ,  strong as they need to be ,  tragic hero ,  “well done, son !" guy , etc .

five prominent traits:   loyal , empathetic , thoughtful , stoic , remorseful , kind-hearted , curious , self-sacrificing , honest ,  devoted , selfless , blunt , melancholic , ruthless , independent , quiet , reliable , polite , impulsive.

    misc

skills:  good hand-to-hand and knife fighting skills , proficient torturer / mind reader.

hobbies:  netflix.................

element:  fire , earth. has a minor connection with air in form of rough winds.

animal:  associated to a dragon in extra-canonical scriptures. he’s really more of a friendly crow. 

plant: ash , cypress. 

anything else you want to add:  soft , approachable , gentle cas is not for everyone. most times , if not downright wary and sarcastic , he’s very much detached. 

    stats

compassion:  9/10.

empathy:  7/10.

creativity:  8/10.

mental flexibility:  7/10 .

passion / motivation:  6/10.

education:  9/10.

stamina:  7/10.

physical strength:  8/10 

battle skill:  8/10.

initiative:  8/10.

restraint:  6/10 no chill whatsoever.

agility:  8/10.

strategy:   10/10.

teamwork:  8/10.

musical-rhythmic intelligence:  6/10.

visual-spatial intelligence:  9/10.

verbal-linguistic intelligence:  7/10.

logical-mathematical intelligence:  10/10.

bodily-kinesthetic intelligence:  6/10.

interpersonal intelligence:  6/10.

intrapersonal intelligence:  7/10.

existential intelligence:  8/10.

naturalistic intelligence: 9/10.

[scoobydoodean]

You know what just really frost my cookies with the whole "Dean doesn't care as much about Cas" discourse??? That post you reblogged about how strong their relationship was in s4/s5 got me thinking about this, but like they had two seasons of such intense relationship building and camaraderie, that Dean was literally fighting Bobby and Sam (his two most important people!!!) over not trusting Cas in s6, and it was DEAN who tried to keep a relationship with Cas s6 - s8, like that man tried everything to keep their relationship going - and that's not to blame Cas, he had his own shit going on (well except for s6, I do blame him for that lol his position is understandable, but it was still his fault), but Dean tried and it still just never worked.

Maybe this is just me, but I've always kind of viewed their relationship in the later seasons as, Dean worked hard to keep them going for so long that eventually it kind of just...hit him that maybe Cas didn't want that? So he stopped trying quite as hard, he remembered the times Cas left, and he interpreted them as rejections, which is in part why the Divorce Arc happened - it was a culmination of many many MANY things, not just the "obvious". That's just my interpretation though, and obviously others have and can interpret it differently.

In summary I see it as, early seasons Dean chasing and pining after Cas, eventually feels rejected and betrayed, later seasons Cas chasing and pining after Dean

Though to be fair and admit to my biases, I was watching s6-s8 in real time on TV, and then I drifted away mid s9 and didn't go back and watch the rest of the seasons until recently, so my strongest impressions of Destiel are of those earlier seasons, so I tend to view it in a different light I think than people who started watching later (or more specifically after Nov 5th and/or for Cas - not that anything is wrong w watching for those reasons lol)

Yeah I think it is very very silly to think that Dean doesn’t care about Cas as much as Cas cares about him. Like wildly so.

I think this line of thinking comes mainly from focusing too much on one character's POV. I think Dean came off a few times in season 6 like he saw his relationship with Cas as transactional—even though that isn’t imo how he actually felt about Cas (just like we can analyze Cas as thinking of his relationship with the Winchesters as very transactional but he does care about them despite how it appears). I think Dean was just kind of hurt because Cas had ghosted him for so long and he thought they were friends and they'd built this bond? So in season 6, he was reacting to what he thought were the boundaries Cas himself set—boundaries that suggested Cas—the guy controlling the means of communication—did not want a friendship with him. Cas ditched Dean in the car at the end of Swan Song and then just invisibly watched Dean rake leaves. Dean was right there. Dean could only pray to Cas. Cas wouldn’t respond. In season 6, without giving Dean a say—while watching Dean rake leaves and considering whether to ask for his help—Cas decided (again--unilaterally) he wouldn't involve Dean, and I do think that decision was out of love, and also probably because... well—he probably thought "what can Dean actually... do?" But ultimately, he wanted a person he cared about who had been through a lot to just be able to rest—that's what he says. Not including Dean (and Sam) continued after Dean came back to hunting as well, because 1) Cas was still thinking about protecting Dean 2) He didn't think Dean could do anything to help (which I think is... probably pretty reasonable—he originally considered including Dean I think mainly for his tenacity) 3) the whole thing had ballooned and Cas was making deals he probably didn't even fully agree with himself—so he was ashamed to some extent, but also knew... he wasn't going to stop, and that Dean would ask him to stop.

Cas is... well—I'm going to say "more morally flexible"... and I don't think that's always a bad thing. This is a useful quality in the line of work TFW is in, honestly. He is more ruthless than Sam and Dean and he also knows that he is, and I think he actually likes to position himself as the ruthless one. He likes being the person who is willing to do what is necessary to get shit done and he's willing to sacrifice a part of himself to do it... because he can take it. He planned to kill Jesse behind the Winchester's backs to spare them the unpleasantness (and the same, later, with Kelly and Jack—when Sam and Dean were looking for a way to save both of them and Cas just went to go find Kelly and kill her). He broke Sam's wall and killed a very good friend—Balthazar—because his friends were standing in his way and he was focused on his ultimate purpose which was stopping another apocalypse. He mind tortured Donatello because it needed to be done. I think that Dean understands that Cas wants to position himself as the ruthless one, and I think Dean also understands that this isn't always a bad quality. I also think it's an obvious point of contention, because Dean is the least morally flexible in the group and is the most tenacious, which I think Cas, in turn, appreciates about Dean—but it is going to lead to clashes between them as best friends with one being tenacious about choosing the least morally crooked path when possible, and the other saying "Can we please just get on with it? I'll do it if you don't want to—I don't mind."

And that's... to some extent, what is happening in season 6... besides the lying and the hurt besties feelings and secrets and betrayals. The actual soul swallowing plan? It's Dean's tenacious insistence on following a more prudent path versus Cas's "Let's get the fuck on with it"... and there's fairness to both sides of that imo... which is why I'm annoyed with certain individuals trying to make this a "sides" thing. It isn't the actual plan as much as it's what he did around it that's the issue, and Dean isn't obligated to agree with him or to trust him after he lied so many goddamn times. Like. Dean's trust was not something to which Cas was entitled, point blank.

You're right—Dean didn’t think Cas would ever lie to him like that in season 6. He couldn’t believe it. He refused to believe it. And I think fans do this thing actually where they hear Cas say in season 6 that he’s always trusted Dean and he always comes when Dean calls and they just buy into that and go “Yeah! That’s so true!” and build an entire analysis on that (and then post insufferable parallels between that and 4.21 thinking they are saying something about Dean's "trust issues" when they are... making a very different parallel lmao). What Cas is saying about always trusting Dean isn’t true—and what’s more, Cas knows it isn’t. He knows suggesting Dean doesn’t trust him enough isn’t fair. When he was spying on Sam and Dean and Bobby he made specific note of “Dean trying so hard to be loyal” and defending him fiercely. (In fact—was there anyone Dean trusted more at that point in his life—despite also clearly being hurt by Cas ghosting him? Bobby, maybe. That's about it.) When Cas came back and tried to retroactively claim entitlement to Dean’s trust, he suggested an imbalance of trust because he was trying to dig into that part of Dean that is loyal to his friends. In other words, he was telling a lie for manipulation purposes, and that's just the damn truth. It isn't some crap about Dean having trust issues. It's Dean not buying some crap Cas is trying to sell—a twisted picture he is trying to paint to avoid doing something worse to get Dean out of his way.

It is insane for people to say Dean doesn't care about Cas as much as Cas cares about him though when you consider Cas hurt someone Dean loves just to keep Dean out of his way—he broke Sam's brain—Sammy's brain—and Dean still found a way to forgive that despite all of the trauma he has wrapped up in protecting Sam, and then he fought 360 degree combat through Purgatory looking for someone who abandoned him. Then while that person was beating him to death he was looking up at him calling him family and Cas again abandoned him. Any time Dean expressed affection for Cas there was a good bet Cas leaving would follow quickly. But Dean approaches Cas in a way the majority of fandom refuses to approach all of the characters—with an understanding of his motivations and hangups and intentions and what is in his heart (and Cas approaches him the same way). Despite it all, Dean knows that Cas cares about him. He doesn't understand why Cas won't include him though—or he does, and the reasons aren't okay with him and Cas will. not. stop. and that is the ever growing festering wound that leads to the divorce arc. It is absolutely 100% a "straw that broke the camel's back" situation. Dean's frustrations with Cas's unilateral decision-making are not... ever dealt with. Cas wanting to ghost Dean is not ever dealt with. Cas Malewifing sidelining Dean whenever he damn well feels like it by just refusing to answer the phone is not ever dealt with. Because each time it's discussed, it happens again. The ultimate narrative is just that Dean should be expected to accept it, and be grateful, and I don't think that's fair. I don't think that refusing to communicate is something that Dean should have to put up with from his best friend. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But more than that, I'm sad that it's something Cas isn't allowed to grow from, because that tendency—that desire for that secrecy and control of the means of communication and that desperation for martyrdom—that is coming from a place of great pain for Cas—a wound—and it's a deep one, and he deserved to get to start to close that wound up and heal.

[scoobydoodean]

I just recently found your blog and I have to say I am fascinated (in a good way!!) with the way your mind works. I’m a Dean fan first and a Cas fan second (Dadstiel!) but your posts about Sam actually make me interested in him and give him some kind of depth and, I don’t know, consistent narrative that I wasn’t seeing in him as a character. I guess I just struggle to see things from his perspective and I haven’t found a lot of good analysis of his character that wasn’t just mindless stanning. Anyways keep up the good work?

Thanks! I don't usually expect people to get more interested in Sam from my blog because I get mean about him a lot jdhfvhsahgf but I do try to understand him! I think early seasons Sam especially is a very interesting guy. I actually really enjoy his moral flexibility and his stubbornness/determination. Unfortunately, I feel a lot of fandom desires to sand away these aspects rather than explore them... usually in order to suit an aesthetic.

Some of my favorite Sam things I've made/written about Sam (if you're interested):

Sam's guilt in season 8 + isolation

Monster Movie gifset paralleling Sam with Dracula

Sam and human sacrifice gifset

Season 1 Sam and isolation gifset

Season 1 Sam and projecting/displaced aggression/scapegoating gifset

[shallowseeker]

Do you agree that Sam used human Jack as bait in the beginning of season 14? It was when Cas got taken by demons.

I read the script for this episode awhile back, when I was thinking about Michael's insistence to know wants and needs. And TBH, I haven't actually watched it in a long while.

I...paid less attention to Sam than Jack's (sometimes hilarious) mishaps, I must admit. (God, I loved some of the stuff with Jack and AU Bobby in that script).

Although I do think this was a GOOD Workaholic Sam episode. :-) It also pointed out some interesting things about overlooking Hell's capitalistic system of grabbing souls re: Crowley.

If memory serves, Jack WAS the bait for the ambush (and Maggie?) but I'd have to go back and look. I think if that's correct, it's an interesting ode to Sam moral flexibility as a leader, perhaps? :-)