#say what you want about tigerheart and dovewing but at least their romantic arc had substance

[yuridovewing]

realized this earlier today but hey. what was up with people saying dovewing hate was fine and righteous because the erins put too much emphasis on her love life while ivypool was more feminist for not having a love interest in oots (ignoring that this is an issue with most female protagonists) but then when fernsong was introduced and had zero chemistry with ivypool and reduced her to another wife and mom, everyone claimed that was super feminist bc he said hed be a stay at home dad which actually made them queer coded or something and youre just a misogynist who doesnt want ivypool to be happy. and dovewing is still terrible and whiny bc she broke the law or whatever

[mallowstep]

Any ships you think should've happened in the WC series?

"should" is a tricky word.

(i will get to an actual answer, i just have a bit of a preamble.)

should is a tricky word: what does it mean? do i think a given couple is more realistic? that it would have caused a more interesting story? that it would be a "better" ship?

because all three of those are subjective, and all three of them deserve more explanation than just me throwing a ship on a list.

like, what is a good ship?

i love jaypoppy, but should it have been canon? i don't know.

when i was but a wee babe, shipping didn't have much to do with canon. that's not to say that lupin and sirius aren't hella gay, but like, did i think...idk, ginny and luna should have gotten together? no, but i still liked reading fic for them.

so like, answering this question is hard, because it isn't what it looks like. or at least, i don't think you were trying to get me all philosophical about fandom and shipping and changes over time.

maybe you were, lmao.

okay, but. i don't think it's news to anyone that i don't have a problem with "bad" things in warriors, as a general rule. so like, in that regard, i'm not going to tell you, oh, we should have had (some other squirrelflight ship) instead of squirrelbramble. we should have had a better executed squirrelbramble, but like, the existence of it is something i'm fundamentally okay with.

yeah, it pisses me off that he treats her so terribly...but? that's okay? if he didn't, it wouldn't piss me off.

squirrelflight isn't real. squirrelflight being abused in warriors for Drama and Conflict is not like a real person being abused.

you know?

so. i keep trying to find like, a way to list ships. do i want to list noncanon ships i like? i don't know! like, i don't think that i think jaypoppy should be canon. i don't think it really works, canonically. i wouldn't be unhappy if i found out it was canon, but it's not a change i would suggest to warriors canon.

like, really, i don't mind ships being non-canon. i would rather have better executed canon ships. i want squirrelbramble to remain canon: i want his treatment of her to be acknowledged by the narrative.

and if i just list "ships that are hinted at but don't follow through," really, all we're doing is getting a reminder that warriors refuses to be gay.

which, like, yeah, i guess i do think mothpool should be canon. that's the first ship on the list, mothpool.

but uh...what about hollywillow? i don't know! should it? wouldn't that change hollyleaf's arc? and do i want that change? would that change be better? maybe!

and that leads me half tempted to list out memes like squirrelflight/self-love, my only true squirrelflight ship.

deep breaths.

i don't have a ton of "leg-room" with this ask, in terms of answering what it says, but should has two meanings: "should" as in this makes for a better narrative, and "should" as in if the characters were people, this would be better for them.

the first question is hard, maybe impossible, to answer, and the second question doesn't matter all that much to me, on a personal level.

but! it is a question i can answer. so without further ado, here are some ships i think about a lot:

bluefur and thrushpelt as qprs (I/II) i just think they're neat meme. but, uh, i think this fits into type I and II, in that we already have an idea of a relationship between them, and i would like to see it extended. but also, emotional support is important! i want them to be nestmates and love each other and just. yeah. okay.

squirrelflight/self-love (II) i made my point pretty clear about this. that said, it's not a very satisfying end to specifically tbc. we've kind of let the squirrelbramble ship sail, and now, i think the only satisfying ending for them, narratively, is to "work out" their issues and stay together.

i don't like it, squilf deserves better, but from the perspective of the narrative, that's kind of what needs to happen. like, warriors is a kid's book, and kids deserve somewhat neat endings, you know?

as much as i argue that kids can handle complex ideas and stuff, i think like, there's not a lot of satisfaction to "squirrelflight goes through all of this to save bramblestar and then she breaks up with him."

there's a place for those stories, don't get me wrong. a central theme in my squirrelstar au is the tug she feels between her existing relationship with bramblestar and what she wants.

but i don't think that's a good resolution for the actual text of the thing. personally.

(it's also possible i don't trust the erins to pull it off.)

mothpool (I/II) considering i consider this canon, this is kind of cheating.

but like, i meme a lot about it, but leafpool is so terribly in love with mothwing every chance she gets to be, that it hurts. you change nothing by making it official, in terms of how the narrative plays out—

but wait! what about leafcrow?

well, heck, people are complicated! have you never been in love with two people? maybe so. that's alright. but i have. i know what it feels like.

leafcrow are a thing, and they're this rebellious teenage infatuated bad idea, and it's completely compatible with canon mothpool.

in both "if you love me any, let me know it now" and "it's been promised to another," i addressed this from leafpool's pov.

—and it just. they deserve each other.

minnowmouse (I) that's right, the first ship on this list that i think should be canon but isn't strictly better for the characters.

it's not type II because we just don't know enough about them to make an informed guess about that.

but! i can say that it would in fact make a better story for them to be together.

dovewing/tigerheart (I/II, debatably) what, nothing said i could include canon ships.

their relationship is good for the narrative, although it could have been executed better. i have a lot of thoughts, but like...i unironically loved all the tigerdove scenes in oots. sue me, i still love them.

as for whether or not it's a "good ship," i'm...willing to admit it's debatable. certainly, they're not a perfect couple.

but...reading tigerheart's shadow really affirmed something for me: tigerheart loves his wife. he loves her so much.

the scene i think about every damn day is when he describes dovewing and the kits sleeping. the level of detail he shows comes from the kind of overwhelming love that makes you want to memorize every single atom of a person.

(yes, i understand love =/= treating someone right, just...let me have this. please. i don't feel like writing a tigerdove essay atm.)

and like! they had a rocky start, but from tigerheart's shadow on, they've been doing pretty good. i love them.

now, as a lightening round of ships i like:

dove/briar/hollow, because acaciapines infected me (love them)

goldenflower/tigerclaw. love it.

dysfunctional leopardstar and tigerclaw.

hollywillow, hollycinder

cinderheart, hollyleaf, and lionblaze in a love triangle. it's really funny to me, okay? it's just. really. funny to me.

jaypoppy. love them. so much. my beloved <3

jaybriar. in a romantic or qpr sense, i don't have a preference, both are loved.

rushtail and troutstream. uh. you'll see?

mossyfoot/dovewing. again. you'll see?

thistleheart/hollyleaf. kizulu is to blame for this one.

platonic/found-family stormfur, brook, and squirrelflight. comes up in one of my fics, i just...idk. i started writing it and now i like it?

and probably more, but hey! that's a wrap.

<3