#see now I'm just sitting her thinking of all the scenes in any Disney media that use fire

[tigeristired]

can I just say, the funniest way that Disney avoids having gory death scenes by having a "high fall into fire below" scene for the villian is one of the weirdest yet coolest things? because like symbolism and all that works with the story, most of the time, but also free falling into fire is considered Disney safe?!?! it's just funny imo that this one scene is in at least three different movies I can think of in like 2 seconds.

[lovecolibri]

Deep sigh. So I've already seen people on Twitter justifying potential Buck/Natalia and Eddie/Marisol in the finale because TPTB thought that the show was going to be cancelled and wanted to give everyone "happy endings." And I'm sitting here like, "Am I the only one who thinks that makes NO sense?"

How would giving two main characters endgame - because that's what they would be - relationships with totally random women who the audience barely knows be "happy endings"??? As opposed to letting them have one of the multiple sweet Buckley-Diaz family scenes that they've seen during the series, ambiguous enough that shippers AND non-shippers could be content? If they push these other relationships which, based on what we've seen, had no chemistry and nothing unique or memorable, it would show that TPTB actually wanted unhappy endings - for the Buddie shippers! It would be SUCH a slap in the face to the many fans who've poured so much heart, soul, time and effort into creating fan works and hyping up the show on social media (because say what you want about GA mattering the most, the Buddie fandom is responsible for the vast majority of the show's ONLINE buzz and keeping it relevant in that respect).

Will people EVER stop defending horrid plots and writing from Kristen and co.? I ask that generally, but also for those who think that it's part of the "long game" for Buddie. What long game? Kristen has said that she does not view Buddie as romantic and does not want their relationship to become romantic. It's always possible that she gets replaced or overruled by others, but like...let's not kid ourselves here. We're constantly fighting against her and others who are opposed to Buddie.

On a related note, if Marisol is indeed back for Eddie (and sadly I'm getting the vibe that she is because she keeps getting ruled out for potential guests in 6x17) it won't be another step on the Eddie/Buddie journey like some people are already claiming 🙄 All the emphasis on Shannon is because Eddie is READY for THE one, the "end all be all" partner that he chooses for himself. It's not like this is his first brush with dating, because he already did that with Ana. They're simply not going to redo an Ana 2.0 (aka build them up and then have them break-up). Buck and Natalia...I have no idea what they're doing, and honestly I don't care that much, because Buck went from a favorite to one of my least favorite characters over the past two seasons. I'm almost immune to his dramas. But Eddie is different, and seeing him shoved into something that already seems so ridiculous for so many reasons...it's almost physically painful.

Sorry for the angry message, I'm PMSing and have laryngitis and am generally crabby right now, LOL. I don't follow many people in the fandom anymore because they constantly make excuses for serious issues with the show and just don't keep it real. But you tell it like it is, and I appreciate it!

Every time I see something about the show starting these random relationships BECAUSE they thought it was the end of the show I just get very

about it. Because you're right that's not a happy ending, not just for Buddie shippers but anyone who are fans of the individual characters and want to see them get the kind of love story the show has done so well (for the most part and VASTLY better than most shows manage) for the other canon couples!

Also, I'm gonna be honest, I don't think anyone on the show side was actually worried about the show ending this season. The renewal talks went late last season too and the network was assuring everyone it was just hammering out money details and the show wasn't in danger. (And we saw how well that budget worked out for us in the lack of good (or any in some episodes) emergencies and a much smaller writer/director pool.) So from my understanding and in my opinion this renewal was simply a matter of if FOX could afford to keep producing a (high budget) show owned by Disney or would release it back to be produced and aired by Disney.

911 has always ended their seasons on hopeful notes for everyone and tied things together nicely so what we've heard doesn't sound any different. I personally feel like @outrunningthedark 's prediction of Buck ending the season being alone and settled in himself makes the most sense. The Natalia stuff could come up in the future again (hopefully not) but my guess is she's here to help with a "lesson" for Buck. Why TF we need her for several episodes and Buck pursuing her to get there, when he has a whole firefam full of people with near death experiences to talk to and a character needing a "push" is usually done with a line or two from a victim on a call, is anyone's guess. Mine would be KR is obsessed with getting into Buck's pants so all his stories have to revolve around that 🤷🏻‍♀️ But it feels like a waste of time for me when it could have been a moment on a call and then Buck talking with characters the audience already know and care about and know care about HIM. Firefam interactions are ALWAYS more impactful than having it happen with some random side characters.

I'm with you on being tired of whatever KR is doing with Buck and I hate that because he's always been a top favorite of mine but it's all just SO bad, or like with 6x11 focused on the wrong things and giving dualing messages so nothing really hits the emotional beat it should. And Eddie has come SO far and it's been very 😒😒😒 watching the show pretend Shannon was great and he's trying to find someone to "recapture that spark" he had with her, instead of digging into the complexities of that whole mess as Chris gets older and starts asking hard questions. Maybe we'll all luck out and it will end up being nothing but I personally prefer to brace for the worst and then celebrate being wrong if I am.

I'm sorry you're not feeling well but I hope getting a little ranting out settled your mind a bit! Thanks, I do try to keep things real because while there are a lot of things I love about the show there are things I don't and I don't think it's a bad thing to talk about where things are going wrong because how else is the show supposed to know? I'm with you in that it baffles me that shows write off online fandom because they're a "smaller" portion of the viewers when they are the ones most likely to get new people to watch the show and also create all the buzz the shows love so much! I never watched Hannibal, it's very much Not For Me, but it's been off the air for AGES and I'm still seeing new edits and hearing things about it because it had such a devoted following. Compare that with other procedural shows that end and you never really hear anything about them again. Fandom creates buzz and longevity for shows, why NOT cater to them a little? Here's hoping the move to ABC works out for us and that a shake-up in the writing/pacing etc is part of that deal. Because KR has just proved over 2-ish seasons (she took over sometime in s4 if that finale and forced BT and the scenes she was told she HAD to include that she didn't think were important weren't clue enough) that she can't hack this job. By her own admission she is out of ideas for big emergencies and has a hard time coming up with plots enough to fill out episodes. It's time to get her out.

[guardianbee]

I'm finally sitting my ass down and watching Marvel's Spider-Man (and by watching I mean skimming for any scenes with Harry, Anya, Miles, and MJ in them) and I commend the MSM staff for trying new things out with the lore but I'm sorry the majority of the creative decisions in the third season alone just absolutely suck.

Examples:

Curt Connors is a lapdog to Norman Osborn. That goes against the very foundation of his character, especially as one of the more sympathetic and moral villains in SM's rogue gallery (I personally blame ASM1 for this). They reveal it was all for a promised cure to Connors' Lizard transformation, but the episodes leading up to that just make him out to be cartoonishly evil without any sort of moral backbone. It's fine to interpret characters in a different way for a different media/story, but aside from the Lizard persona, there's really nothing about THIS Curt Connors that makes him a well-written or even half-baked reimagining of his character. Plus his design is ugly and is such a downgrade from his USM design lmao.

Jefferson Davis is a lapdog to Norman Osborn AND had one of the worst villainous motivations ever concocted: "Oh no! my son and my neighborhood was put in danger by this superhero! so I'm going to go to this madman that caused FAR more irreparable damage to NYC and could further endanger my son and genetically alter my DNA, kidnap innocent people, and help kill my son's friends so that I may kill this one superhero." STUPID. Did they really think they were doing something here? Where is Rio to slap some sense into this man? Oh, they never introduced her? She's presumably dead?? Miles is a main character in this show and Jefferson was only in one episode before becoming Swarm? Wow, what a fantastic build-up for a character dynamic no one gives a shit about in this show!! Plus his design is ugly (the Swarm design is fine though).

I will say though I think it's borderline funny (and can now even be considered a #canon Miles Morales SM event) that when Miles reveals himself to any of his villainous relatives/friends, the first thing they do is gasp and go "Miles?!?"

This is an S1 thing but they made it my problem again in S3 so: making Jackal Gwen's uncle. I'm sorry, but that's fucking weird given his comic history with her (TLDR he's a scientist who was fucking obsessed with her and wanted to kill Spider-Man because he blamed him for her death). Why did every main character in this show NEED to have a villainous relative (luckily Anya's was a fake because that shit made no sense in canon)? None of that drama with Gwen and the Jackal and Miles and his father was compelling!! Villainous family drama is Harry Osborn's thing you just can't take it away from him!! Or at least introduce villain relatives that make SENSE - could have had Aaron Davis be Swarm instead and build his relationship with Miles from previous seasons, could have made Mark Raxton Gwen's stepbrother instead of Liz's and watched him become Molten Man. See how easy it is to create new interpretations without going against the very core of their characters?

Also did they just straight up never introduce George Stacy in this show? Again Gwen is a main fucking character how do you not introduce and have AT LEAST a few scenes between her and one of her most important and foundational relationship dynamics? Trash, man!

I didn't care for Otto in this show but his replacement, Grady, is such a downgrade. Were they contractually obligated to give Scott Menville another character to voice in S3? Because that's the only reason I can think of for this dude to be here and be one of the most annoying characters on this annoying show.

If this show just had shading it would look five times better but Disney is so cheap when it comes to its animated Marvel properties now. USM had over 100 episodes and they were ALL shaded and looked like a goddamn masterpiece compared to any episode from MSM. MSM S3 only had 12 episodes so you would THINK they could have preserved some of their budget for shading but nope! there is precisely one scene that is shaded in this entire season and it's a scene that involves Grady lmao.

Peter reveals to everyone (including VILLAINS) and their mother that he's Spider-Man. The school board meeting reveal was particularly egregious because Connors just egged him on and he just did it to save Max's job??? When a core part of Peter's dilemma throughout any piece of media is revealing himself to the ones he cares about, how they will react, and what the consequences of such an act will be for them and his superhero life? And he does that all to save a guy's job - not his life, but his JOB??? Get outta here lmao.

MJ being introduced in S3 is fine and Peter instantly falling for her is fine given that he has been instantly enamored with her in almost every other iteration of their relationship but I will say it IS a bit weird given this Peter Parker has not shown any previous interest in girls whatsoever (including Gwen!). MJ's also in just a handful of scenes with Peter and I would have really liked for her to be a stronger supporting character for the third season with a believable romance (because Peter all but confesses he wants to be with her for the rest of their lives in the series finale which is very cute but also feels random when she's been a total of four episodes and has a screentime of MAYBE fifteen minutes in the entire show).

Harry is in like two episodes in S3 and I feel like that was very much a #choice from the writers. If Norman isn't involved, why would Harry be? And that's just a disservice to Harry's character - he's more than his relationship with his father and I thought the MSM writers understood that - the USM writers did!

Tony Stark bankrolling Peter and his friends to create a tech startup is so antithetical to SM as a whole but it is so fucking funny and I know it's because of MCU Spider-Man and I hate it here. MCU Spider-Man has caused irreparable damage to my psyche and the SM mythos at large and I'm so glad that shit has been retconned into oblivion (thank you OMD you were good for precisely one thing).

ANYWAY, these are all my thoughts and I'm right when I say USM might have had a quirkier, 4th wall-breaking Peter Parker and made him a lapdog for SHEILD with stupid fucking tech like the spider-cycle but at least their main villains were well-developed, the Osborns were the best part of that show, almost all the main characters had satisfying conclusions, AND Peter didn't reveal his identity willy-nilly and was a contentious plot point throughout.