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cacophony-of-notions · 3 years

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My feelings on a common misconception interpretation of Sam in “Slice Girls”:

TL;DR Sam did not kill Emma as “revenge” and Dean was not ethically inconsistent in his actions with Emma versus Amy.

I have seen many times people claim that Sam killed Emma as “revenge” for Amy. I have seen both his antis and his hardcore stans say this (the latter as a means of “justifying” a decision Sam made that they traditionally wouldn’t stand behind… regardless of the fact that killing a kid to get revenge on his brother would paint him in a far worse light than taking the situation at face-value).

In the same way that Dean killed Amy because he legitimately thought it was the right call, Sam killed Emma because he legitimately thought it was the right call. That’s it. Hate both of their decisions, agree with one but not the other, agree with neither… no matter what, I don’t think wanting “revenge” and taking that out on a child had anything to do with Sam’s actions. There are a few reasons why.

First, looking at the context of the season as a whole, Sam has been worried about Dean’s mental state for most of the season in much the same way that Dean has been worried about his, and accordingly, they didn't trust each other’s judgment fully.

Dean killing Amy was to some extent, about not trusting Sam’s judgement due to his attachment to Amy and the metal state Sam had been in that season. Sam had been hallucinating and had also lied about it. So on top of not being sure if Sam could accurately grasp reality at any given time, him hiding it also made it very difficult for Dean to trust Sam to be honest if he was hallucinating, needed help, or needed to take a step back.

Sam’s decision to kill Emma was, likewise, to some extent, about not trusting Dean’s judgement due to his natural attachment to Emma as a father and Dean’s mental state that season. We see, on several occasions in season 7, Sam noting that Dean is drinking more alcohol than usual (which is saying something). Several times in the season, Sam expresses concern over this, to Bobby as well as to Dean directly. Sam’s lack of confidence in Dean is actually enough that, when Dean begins to notice things moving from where he left them and starts to suspect that Bobby is haunting them, Sam repeatedly and flippantly dismisses his observations and chalks all of it up to Dean drinking too much and grieving too hard and being an unreliable witness.

Second, Sam and Dean came to an understanding about Amy in “The Mentalist”, and Sam ended up saying at the end of the episode that Dean’s actions made sense, and that he was right that Sam’s judgement couldn’t be trusted because he was too close to the situation emotionally.

Season 7’s “The Mentalist” covers the confrontation between Sam and Dean over Amy, and Sam’s decision to work side by side with Dean again. There are two scenes—the initial blow up from Sam and Dean’s rebuttal, and then the resolution at the end of the episode.

First the initial blow up and Dean’s rebuttal:

Dean: We agreed to work the case. We didn’t agree for you to be a dick the whole time.

Sam: What?

Dean: You’re pissed. Okay? And you’ve got a right.

Sam: Yeah, damn straight.

Dean: But enough’s enough.

Sam: Says who? Look, I’ll work this damn case, but you lied to me, and you killed my friend.

Dean: No, I put down a monster who killed four people, and if you didn’t know her, you’d have done the same thing.

Sam: I did know her, Dean.

Dean: Yeah, which is why you couldn’t do it. Look, I get it. There are certain people in this world, no matter how dangerous they are, you just can’t.

Sam: Don’t pull that card! That’s bull! Look, if I’ve learned one thing, it’s that if something feels wrong, it probably is!

Dean: Usually, yeah. But killing Amy was not wrong. You couldn’t do it, so I did. That’s what family does—the dirty work. And I would have told you eventually, once I knew that this whole “waving a gun at Satan” thing was a one-time show. I think it’s reasonable to want to know that you’re off the friggin’ high dive, Sam. You almost got us both killed. So you can be pissed all you want, but quite being a bitch.

Then there was the resolution at the end of the episode:

Sam: Look, you know what... you were right—about Amy. If she was just any monster, I’m not sure I could have let her walk away. I dunno. I mean, I’ll never know.

Dean: What are you saying?

Sam: What I’m saying is… I get why you did it. You were just trying to make sure no one else got hurt. But here’s the thing: you can’t just look me in the face and tell me you’re fine. I mean, you’re not sleeping, you drink for the record-

Dean: Oh here we go…

Sam: Look, whatever. Last one to preach. I know. But… just be honest with me. How are those the actions of someone who knows they did the right thing?

Dean: You want me to be honest?

Sam: Yeah.

Dean: I went with my gut. And that felt right. I didn’t trust her, Sam. Of course, ever since Cas, I’m having trouble trusting anybody. And as far as how I’ve been acting… I don’t know. Maybe it’s because I don’t like lying to you. You know, it doesn’t feel right. So yeah, you got me there. I’ve been climbing the walls.

Third, in context, when Sam brings up Amy in the car, it is to say Dean choked with Emma in the same way that Sam choked with Amy and it could have gotten him killed—not that killing Emma was somehow vengeance for Amy. See the conversation at the end of “Slice Girls”:

Sam: What did you say to me... when I was the one who choked? What did you say about Amy? “You said you kill the monster”!

Dean: I was going to!

Sam: Oh, like hell you were! You think I’m an idiot?

Dean: What you think I am?!

Sam: Dean, you were gonna let her walk!

Dean: No I wasn’t. That’s ridiculous!

Sam: Look, man, she was not yours. Not really.

Dean: Actually, she, uh, she was, really. She just also happened to be a crazy man-killing monster. But uh, hey-

Sam: You know what? Bobby was right. Your head’s not in it, man. When Cas died, you were wobbly, but now...

Dean: Now what? Oh what, you’re dealing with it so perfect? Yeah, news flash, pal. You’re just as screwed up as I am! You’re just... bigger.

Sam: What?!

Dean: I don't know!

Sam: Look... Dean, the thing is, tonight... it almost got you killed. Now, I don’t care how you deal. I really, really don’t. But just don’t... don’t get killed.

In no way does Sam suggest here that Dean “deserved” to have his kid shot in front of him as some kind of “payback”. In fact, that doesn't really make sense

In the context of the conversation in “The Mentalist, where Sam said he understood why Dean felt the way he did about Amy.

It also doesn’t make sense in the context fo Sam’s comment that Emma “wasn’t really yours”. If he did it to hurt Dean, he would have pressed into that relationship, not dismissed it.

He lectured Dean because he was scared Dean wouldn't have been able to pull the trigger and would have gotten himself killed. It’s the same “are you off the high-dive?” lecture Dean gave him, it’s the same “I did the dirty work for you because you couldn’t”. The shot Sam took wasn’t hesitant, but it also wasn’t emotional. It was calculated and ruthless. It was a choice Sam made, that Emma could not be trusted. He made that call. And maybe he was right—maybe the brainwashing went too deep, and Emma would have come after Dean again if they let her go (which is probably what Sam was really worried about—that she would have gone after Dean again and gotten the drop on him or he wouldn’t have shot her), or maybe she would have come after someone else. Maybe Sam was wrong, and Emma could have been persuaded away from life in a cult. We can say the same about Dean killing Amy. All they had was her word that she wouldn't kill again. And yet, if her son got sick again, it seems reasonable to assume she’d go on another killing spree. Maybe Dean was right to kill her, maybe he was wrong.

Other notes:

[1] Sam misses a certain detail when he compares Dean’s actions with Emma to his own situation with Amy. Sam only compares the two situation by virtue of him or Dean choking due to an attachment to the “monster” in question. However, there’s a distinction between the two kills that is important within Dean’s personal ethical framework, while it’s not necessarily important within Sam’s... to the point that Sam doesn't really see this distinction at all (in fact, he may not know about it). Namely, Emma had never killed anyone before while Amy had killed four people. Dean’s actions in both situations are actually ethically consistent—which is another misconception in fandom. From Dean’s framework, Emma and Amy are not the same. Emma and Amy’s son are the same. We see the distinction Dean draws between Amy and her son in “The Girl Next Door”: Dean kills Amy but lets her son go because he’s never killed anyone. He doesn’t rescind that even after Amy’s son tells Dean he’s going to come after him eventually and kill him. Dean treats Emma in the exact same way. He tells her he would let her walk away because she’s never killed anyone, and he doesn’t rescind the offer even if it seems like she still might try to come after him again. This is also consistent with how Dean treated Bobby John in Season 6 “Two and a Half Men”, Jack in Season 4 “Metamorphosis”, and Madison in Season 2 “Heart”.

[2] When he kills Amy, Dean is notedly dealing with trust issues that he himself acknowledges, after what happened with Cas. He trusted Cas implicitly even when Bobby and Sam doubted him, and he got burned, and it shook his ability to trust in anyone (see Sam’s “wobbly” talk above”). Killing Amy is a part of that, according to Dean’s own perceptions.

[3] To a certain extent, it might even be said that Sam and Dean aren't just wary of trusting each other’s judgement, but also wary of trusting themselves. For example, “You kill the monster” is a hardline stance that’s unusual for Sam and that is rejected by both brothers as early as Season 2 “Bloodlust”. But because Sam doesn’t trust himself at that point in time, and also does not trust Dean’s judgement either, he does what he thinks is “safe” when his own mind is half shredded and he has a depressed and alcoholic brother who he’s afraid is going to let a monster kid murder him one day (be it Emma or Amy’s son). If he were to let Emma go and worse came to worse, Sam doesn’t feel he can rely on Dean to defend himself from her, and he doesn’t know what his own mind state is going to be like in the future. So he does what’s “safe” for them both. In the same way, Dean’s actions with Amy could be viewed as him choosing what’s “safe”.

#dean winchester #sam winchester #spn 7.03 #spn 7.07 #spn 7.13 #the slice girls #the mentalist #the girl next door #fandom misconceptions

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katsidhe · 3 years

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for episode review s7 Magicians and Slice Girls, or like just general thoughts on the Amy drama especially the dialogue in The Mentalists and Emma killing

7.07 Final Thoughts

Mmm, Amy drama. This episode has both an escalation and a deescalation.

The scene in the cafe when Sam doesn’t say anything is very easy to read as Sam, unsure of his reality, unwilling to verbally acknowledge Dean until the waiter confirms he’s really there. His tense defensiveness makes me wonder how often “Dean” has showed up in the interim.

How quiet Sam is! and Dean, even though he’s the one asking Sam to forget his anger, graciously offers not to ask “where the hell you’ve been”. Lmao.

Can I just say how much I love the shitty car, and how much it annoys Dean. SPN should have killed the Impala more often!!

Sam spends this case visibly, wonderfully annoyed, in brusque silence: it’s a relentlessly internal kind of reaction, as Sam both focuses on his anger and ignores it.

Which meshes really well with how Sam spends most of s7—that is, with tunnel vision. Everything Sam does, he focuses on with single-minded determination. He has to focus so completely on what’s in front of him so that he has very little time to dwell on anything else. Even in episodes like this one, where Hallucifer doesn’t explicitly come up, it’s obvious how easy Sam is to catch off guard, how little personal involvement he has with the case and the witnesses, how much of himself is focused on either bare facts, or his annoyance. He doesn’t make the connection that all the headlining acts had been targeted. He storms the Lamaze class, gun out. He fails to notice the emporium man’s involvement, even when he’s acting very squirrelly.

One thing I always find at least a little bit baffling about S7 is its meta-level preoccupation with people loudly wondering if Dean is okay—like in this episode, for some reason, Ellen, courtesy of the museum psychic. If this level of random characters’ concern for Dean were situated, eg, in s4 post-Hell or s8 post-Purgatory, I wouldn’t bat an eye. But it’s not. It’s a strange and noticeable choice, given that Sam is the one currently in an active psychotic break. With a couple of characters, it makes in-universe sense: Bobby, for instance, has always been way more comfortable with Dean’s dysfunction than Sam’s. But, like, 7.04 focusing on Dean’s guilt, and Frank in 7.11 addressing Dean’s depression, and a host of other examples, make it clear that this is a ~Storyline~ that apparently needs to be pointed out to us or we’ll miss it.

Let me clarify that I very much enjoy Dean’s depression in s7, especially because, somewhat uniquely for Dean, it isn’t particularly muddled by his anger/rage issues. It’s probably the lowest extended point of sheer blank misery he’s got in the entire run of the show, and that’s fun. I just don’t buy that Everyone In the World is preoccupied with Dean’s depression (especially when Sam’s psychosis is very visible and very RIGHT THERE).

I love Dean’s logic about Amy. It’s absolutely batshit: Amy killed “bad” people to save her son, but killing people is always wrong. Therefore, Dean kills Amy, a “bad” person. But also, the actual moral question about Amy is kinda irrelevant to where Sam and Dean are right now. Their reasoning is divorced from the ethical problem.

Sam, unable to trust reality, decided to trust his gut about Amy. He wasn’t using a logical or pragmatic or even moral argument the way he might have in s6 or s4: about how Amy was unlikely to reoffend, or about how they shouldn’t kill a repentant single mother, or that leaving her child an orphan would undoubtedly lead to more killings. Instead, fresh off of his crisis in 7.02, he used a Dean-approach: it felt wrong to kill her. He decided that even if he couldn’t trust his eyes, he could rely on his instincts, and his personal history with her.

But Dean tells him he was wrong to trust himself, that Sam’s subjectivity in 7.03 was the source of his error, rather than something Sam should trust as in 7.02! And then he tells Sam that he wouldn’t have kept Amy’s killing a secret if it weren’t for Sam’s hallucinations.

It’s hard to overstate how comprehensive this attack is. Dean calls into question Sam’s mental stability, Sam’s ability to trust his instincts, and, most fundamentally, Sam’s fitness to do his job, to make life-or-death decisions and keep them both alive. It’s got shades of how he treated Sam most recently when soulless—that Sam isn’t trustworthy, and Sam isn’t capable, because there’s something intrinsically off about him.

And it works. Sam accedes. He confesses that he’s unsure if he was doing the right thing about Amy, and that he’ll never know. Dean admits that he went with his gut (which is okay because Dean’s gut is right, lol). The funny thing here is that Dean even admits he’s having trust issues since Cas, and that that might have affected his judgment—but he and Sam brush right by that. Even though Dean himself called his instincts into question, there’s no back-and-forth on whether he did the right thing.

#7.07 #final thoughts #7.03 #7.02 #sam and mental illness #sam and hallucinations #sam and dean #sam and amy #dean and guilt #dean and depression #blahdose

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