#the oath rod scene was so heartbreaking

[lakeofsilverpike]

I wonder if you have an opinion on the dynamics in the relationship between Moiraine and Siuan.

Whenever we have seen them together when other people are around and Siuan is the Amrylin, she is the one with the commanding personality. In both 1x06 and 2x07. She is authoritative, powerful, authoritarian and even intimidating sometimes….to Moiraine even. But when they are alone, just them, the dynamics are completely flipped. In 1x06 in the hut, Moiraine commands her onto her knees. Moiraine is the one ranting( about the ale first then the prophecy then Siuan’s silence. Siuan just weathers the storm, calm), demanding and then finally deciding….it will be exile. Siuan is the one who breaks, hurt that they don’t have more time. Even in the oath rod scene, when it is just between them, it is Moiraine guiding and deciding and in control by changing the wording while at the same time reassuring Siuan of her love.

In 2x07 in the flashback, Moiraine is physically leading and talking and stops when she seeks a more quiet Siuan having some issue and then seeks to reassure her. Moiraine is also the one who here makes the final decision of what their lives will be in retirement. Siuan is the one following, even in the body language, physically also following Moiraine.

This is the main problem I have with 2x07 and the way their scenes play out. Siuan is always in Amrylin mode here, especially in the very last scene. Command command command. One cannot erase 30-40 years of personal dynamics when you have been a loving couple for so long. When they are in personal/couple mode, Siuan is never the « top ». She always gives over control to Moiraine. Always. This scene is supposed to be between the two of them, supposed to show us betrayal and heartbreak. But the dynamics are upside down.

I don’t know if I am making any sense but this is troubling to me from what they have shown us between them

I don't perceive Moiraine and Siuan's relationship through the lens of power dynamics. I think that they are a couple who come to each other as equals and are able to seek out support from the other when needed.

In the fuck hut scene in 1x06, I think what we see is Moiraine being open and vulnerable. We see her actually able to articulate her doubts and fears about failing at their mission. And Siuan knows Moiraine well enough to know that when Moiraine winds herself up that the right move is to call her a pufferfish, let her spikes retract, and then talk about the issue rationally. I don't see a power dynamic there. I see Moiraine letting someone see her uncertain and afraid and letting Siuan reassure her.

I do think Moiraine understands that she needs to tell Siuan to banish her because doing so means accepting that Moiraine is going to die. And I am sure that Siuan would forever feel guilty and responsible if Moiraine did die at the Eye of the World, but Moiraine is making it clear that she accepts this, that it's her choice. Again, I don't read power dynamics. I read Moiraine making a decision that they both know is what is necessary and trying to lessen the blame Siuan will put on herself when it is done.

I actually see Siuan as the one doing more of the reassuring and care taking in the fuck hut scene. She lets Moiraine express her doubts, encourages Moiraine to rest, and holds back what must be the tremendous amount of pain Siuan is in about that decision (as well as all her stress about the politics she is dealing with). And so, the Oath Rod scene becomes Moiraine reciprocating, Moiraine offering Siuan words of comfort and love for Siuan to hold onto when Moiraine is dead.

I read Moiraine and Siuan's relationship as very much two equals in 1x06. They can be vulnerable with each other. They both seek to reassure and comfort the other and take care of each other in the ways they can given the separation and the act they play in public.

The flashback in 2x07 clearly gives us a scene where Siuan is feeling uncertain and Moiraine reassures her. The context here is that they have been together for thirty years. I don't see a power differential. I see a normal part of a long-term relationship. This is a moment where Siuan is worried about expressing her wishes for their future because she fears Moiraine won't want the same thing. And Moiraine is able to reassure Siuan that all Moiraine really cares about is a future with Siuan, and if Siuan wants that future to be in a tiny village together then that is perfectly fine with Moiraine.

I think present day 2x07 shows us a real failure in the way Moiraine and Siuan usually communicate. They seem typically to share everything with each other. And here we have Moiraine not telling Siuan she was "stilled.” I think based on 2x06 that part of this is that to write the words forces Moiraine to come to terms with something that she is struggling to believe. I think writing the words makes the stilling real and permanent and she finds that so hard. And I also think telling Siuan is frightening because some part of Moiraine is afraid of being seen differently and some part of her knows Siuan will rush to her to comfort her and that means the potential to let herself feel immensely vulnerable. And that is hard. This is a huge trauma that Moiraine experiences away from her wife, and that means that Moiraine resorts to shutting herself down and isolating as a coping mechanism.

But this situation really puts Siuan in a very bad spot. Lan comes to Siuan and tells her not only that Moiraine has hid this, but also that Lan told Alanna about Rand. Siuan makes it very clear that she cannot be implicated in looking for the Dragon or knowing about the prophecy (her grasp on power is tenuous right now and she knows if this is found out she will be deposed and stilled - she says as much to Moiraine in 1x06). And now other Aes Sedai know, and that is bad, that makes this a situation where Siuan needs to move quickly. I assume she is panicking about this, about the need to not keep this a secret any longer and to make it look like she has only just found this out. We can all assume that Alanna is the biggest Tower gossip, and so there is not much time.

I think the best thing to do (in terms of the hope of getting through to Moiraine, the best chance of Moiraine letting herself be truly vulnerable) would have been for Siuan to have a quiet private conversation with Moiraine rather than a rushed confrontation in the Sun Palace. But who knows if that would even be possible. It's so hard to find a way to be alone in the Sun Palace, especially when there are tons of Aes Sedai there too. So instead of an intimate conversation where Siuan can soothe Moiraine and focus on her trauma, they end up having a strategy conversation instead. And what they needed was what they had in 1x06 - the intimacy first, coming to each other as wives first, and then the conversation about strategy.

In 2x07, I think we see Moiraine and Siuan both trying to accomplish what they think is best for the world. And they will both put that above all else. What we never truly get to see is them able to come to each other as partners and attend to each other's personal needs and hurts and fears. They are both under a tremendous amount of pressure and I have no doubt that given time and space they will be able to talk this out and take care of each other again in the future.

On the topic of whether Siuan is a top in bed, you may be in the fandom minority here. To me, they really feel like equals, and both enjoy some power play in bed from time to time. I often feel like I might be the only person in fandom who writes Moiraine not always being a bratty bottom. I have definitely written smut with each of them being more in control. And for me it's often about the situation and what they need. Sometimes it feels good for Siuan to give up control after having to be in control as Amyrlin all the time. And sometimes Moiraine enjoys letting Siuan be in control (New Spring Moiraine certainly talks about it a lot). To me they are fundamentally equal partners, and they both like having fun in bed and sometimes that means power play in one direction and sometimes in the other. And sometimes it means very soft romantic sex. And sometimes it means the giggly silly sex that you get to have when you've been with someone for decades and know them so well and feel comfortable together.

[cuddlybitch]

I thought we'd have more time. We always think that. Don't we? One day we will. In this life or the next.

     —Moiraine & Siuan

THE WHEEL OF TIME (2021)

[booasaur]

wheel of time spoilers don't read if you haven't seen episode 6//

i don't know if you ended up watching or not but siuan (sophie okonedo)'s episode of wheel of time just came out and it was everything i've ever wanted for her and moiraine and their relationship 😭😭 this storyline in the books is just as epic and interesting (all the main points about being distant and professional in public but secretly conspiring together for 20 years), except in the books they're exes with no real hints they kept their relationship going, and what they did in the show just made it so much more heartbreaking and amazing, the angst hurts so good and all the little moments (the oath rod! the finger! the fish puns!!) rosamund and sophie were brilliant together

wheel of time spoilers for ep 6 /////

First, thank you for the spoiler warnings! I'd have been disappointed not to have watched that first.

WHICH I DID! I was absolutely going to watch this ep as soon as it was available, are you kidding, I've been waiting for it since I found out Sophie Okonedo was going to be in the show!

And yessss, it was amazing, the scene in the Hall in front of everyone else, then Moiraine getting herself ready with the creams and the nightgown and cutting off the bond with Lan to then go see Siuan and it really was everything! All the things you said! The familiarity, the banter, the history, the fish puns, lol, the angst.

During the oath rod scene, like, what a specific pledge to Siuan, that was some marriage vow stuff, Moiraine, and like, to see her so emotional, after being deliberately so restrained and reserved for so long. I really was like, can't we see these two powerhouses for longer?