#the only ‘it’s not incest if they’re not related’ arguments I’ve seen were from super dodgy individuals and bro that’s so rare

[worstloki]

it hit he mythical thorki shippers who allegedly somehow don't know it's incest are the same as the mythical loki fans who allegedly think he's a pure uwu baby who did nothing wrong ever and has no flaws. where are antis finding these blogs bc I have never seen them?

I’ve seen a few people unironically use the arguments but I wouldn’t say it’s common or 3 people are enough to be a problem really. It’s... pretty well acknowledged that they’re brothers and Loki’s killed people too.

[theprodigypenguin]

Can you talk a little about jeddy's future kids? Or about them being dads, in general.

Keep in mind my headcanon jeddy kids are probably different from the majority of people’s headcanons. I’ve seen Big Name jeddy authors say pretty firmly that they don’t think Jeddy would EVER have kids, and that’s fine because everyone has different headcanons. I think differently, and I’ve spent a lot of time thinking of their kids, developing personalities for all of them, and I really, really love them.

A quick disclaimer, I do not care how they have these children, so long as they have babies. I let the reader decide how the kids came around. Adoption, surrogate, trans-character, mpreg, I do not care, it’s readers choice.

Teddy and James both REALLY love kids, first of all, and they discuss having kids before they get married. They also want to have more than one, because growing up Teddy missed having a sibling (even though he had the Wotters and Scorpius, it wasn’t exactly the same thing). They both wanted their kid to have siblings so they would always have someone to turn to even when Teddy and James were gone.

They end up having four kids: two boys and two girls.

Their first child is a boy they name Remus Harold Lupin. He ends up being a Gryffindor like James. He loves Quidditch like most of his family and his personality is probably closest to that of James Sr (his great-grandad). He’s very bubbly and outgoing, confident, brave, reckless, creative. He’s very similar to Jamie and gets along super well with his Aunt Lily. His best friend is his cousin Luke (Lily’s son), and he’s very protective of his younger siblings (though he’s not afraid to tease them and fuck with them because all great siblings harass each other).

Their second son is Dorian Lyall Lupin. Dorian is the closest they could get to Nymphadora “Dora”, and it was actually James’ idea. Dorian is really quiet compared to his older brother. He inherited some of Teddy’s Metamorph abilities, but they’re “watered down” so to speak. He’s only able to change the color of his eyes. For Dorian, however he’s conceived, he’s Teddy’s biological son. And remember that Teddy is related to pure blood families who have a very long history of incestual reproduction. That shows up in Dorian as an auto-immune deficiency and anemia. Basically the long history of mixing incest as well as the bits of werewolf blood that passes to him made him very sick and fragile. It’s pretty bad when he’s a kid, but they’re able to manage it so he can go to Hogwarts. He’s sorted into Hufflepuff like Teddy, but he spends a lot of his time at Hogwarts in the infirmary with a Healer. He’s a very gentle boy, and he’s very intelligent. He’s also sassy as fuck, so don’t get into an argument with him. He shares a room with his brother at home, which was Remus’ idea because he wants to look after his brother.

Their daughter’s are twins, and they didn’t plan to have two more kids (just the one), but they love them both.

Andromeda Hope Lupin was born first. A Gryffindor like her oldest brother, and she inherited Teddy and Tonks’ full metamorphmagus abilities. She’s fucking chaos, and worse than Remus. A Quidditch player like her brother, and BRUTAL. She’s more interested in the physical aspects of magic than the intellectual, but she’s brilliant, and a way better prankster than Remus. Think a chaotic mix of Tonks, James, Fred, George, Charlie, and Sirius: That’s her.

The youngest is Minerva Maeve Lupin (or Minni-May as Andy and Remus like to call her, which she fucking hates). Yes she was named after McGonagoll, and yes she’s McGonagoll’s favorite. She’s sorted into Slytherin at Hogwarts (which Albus thinks is fucking hysterical), and she’s deadset on either becoming Minister for Magic or the next Hogwarts Headmistress. She’s very blunt and no-nonsense, and is the last person who would join her siblings or cousins in their shenanigans. She’s quiet like Dorian, but her silence is more seething and glaring and quietly planning destruction than the lack of wanting to talk. She is VERY ambitious, but she loves her family very much and would willingly give up on a once in a lifetime opportunity if her family needed her. She’s probably the second most level headed out of her siblings and cousins (My Headcanon Scorbus kid is the first), and thinks Remus and Andy are pains. She gets along with Dorian the best (but all of them get along with Dorian best because that’s just the kind of chill, mellow guy he is).

James and Teddy are really good parents. They’re supportive and attentive and love their babies to death. That’s what I got right now.

Thanks for this ask, it was fun.

[anti-dennor]

masterpost on why mod norway hates den//nor a lot without mentioning kin stuff or specific ships that are better

disclaimer: this post isn’t to start an argument, the only reason I’m making it is to organize my thoughts about den//nor because @ adhd wyd. 

This is okay to reblog, but I will ignore any and all reblogs adding on things about how I’m wrong. This is based off a mix of opinion, canon and scientific evidence about attraction, and I really, really, don’t want to argue about den//nor, especially with people who ship it. So really, for the sake of my mental health and your time, don’t bother arguing with my stubborn ass. I’m not going to change my stance on this and there’s nothing you can say to change that.

contents: yaoi / it’d be unhealthy (for both of them) / the actual shippers / dynamic

yaoi.

I’m not saying I dislike gay ships, no. I live for gay ships, I’m a gay male, I love mlm ships. Big comfort material. I dislike yaoi, gay ships are fine and dandy. Yaoi is gross.

Yaoi (”Also called BL (Boy’s Love) and Shounen Ai, yaoi is a genre of manga that fetishizes m/m relationships and relies on homophobic stereotypes for plot and character devices.”), and fujioshis.

“In most yaoi mangas, there is one agressive masculine man who preys upon an usually much younger, submissive feminine man. It strengthens the homophobic myth of gay men being predators and pedophiles.”

Doesn’t that sound a lot how the fandom portrays Denmark and Norway? Denmark is canonically the same height as Norway (Well, Norway is like an inch shorter at most), and the two have about the same body shape. Yet what do y’all fujioshis do? Draw Norway as some femme boy that’s like a foot shorter than Denmark.

“It also relies on heteronormative stereotypes, where there are always strict uke/seme roles in bed, as well as a feminine caring and a masculine powerful dynamic in the relationship outside of the bed.  “

Again, what do y’all do? Make Norway super femme and oh so much smarter than Denmark, making Denmark the unhealthily powerful one -- Bringing me to my next point;

it’d be unhealthy (for both of them).

“They have known each other since childhood, but while Denmark considers the two of them to be like best friends and believes that Norway thinks the same way he does, he is unaware of Norway's blunt teasing.[7] Norway frequently refers to him as anko[12], a term Himaruya has described as having a nuance like older brother or oniichan, the familiar form of big brother, and having a classmate-like feeling.[13]”

“Main article: Norway

Norway is a childhood friend of Denmark's, who he feels rather close to and strongly about, believing that Norway sees him the same way as a "best friend." “

(source: Norways wiki & Denmarks wiki)

Since I’m not sure how to word it; lets take my parents for example; they’d been dating since they were 15 (fifteen) until they were like 23-24. My mom used to go over to his house every. single. day. because she felt more at home there than at her own home. They never argued, they were like a perfect relationship almost. Why they broke up? My mom, and I quote, “saw him more like a brother than a lover.” Which is a completely justified reason to break up! My parents have the same relationship as siblings. Now, if my parents felt like siblings after 8 years of growing up together; imagine the bond that Denmark and Norway have.

They grew up together for thousands of years! Meaning they’d be much, much closer than my parents were. So maybe they could’ve dated at some point in their history, but I can see them doing the same thing my parents did; break up because they felt like siblings/being best friends would be better. Plus, you don’t call your lover “brother”, even if you’re not actually related or don’t mean it as sibling-way especially if you have other, blood-related, siblings.

Why would a relationship be unhealthy for the both of them?

Because if they feel like brothers, then you get the same unhealthy benefits of actual incest from the Westermarck effect, “a hypothetical psychological effect through which people who live in close domestic proximity during the first few years of their lives become desensitized to sexual attraction.” Which, guess what, Denmark and Norway have known each other since childhood, 

Fujioshis turning the shp into yaoi + the westermarck effect; what do we have?

If you put the two into a relationship you’re implying that one of them is unconsciously forcing themselves onto the other. Or just, y’know, people straight up writing something like Danish Slaughter House - a fanfiction where Denmark straight up rapes and kills all the Nordics.

And speaking of Danish Slaughter House, let’s move on to the next point;

the actual shippers.

I don’t even know where to start with this one. I guess I’ll start with shamchat, a great site, I spend a lot of time there - as one of my biggest hobbies in the past few years is roleplaying. I have almost 2 years of experience with writing Norway. The thing is, when I come across Denmarks on the site it almost always, if theyre a Dennor shipper, starts off as something like:

Best friends hanging out -> Denmark asks Norway to do something with him -> Norway is busy -> Denmark gets sad -> Norway tries to make him feel better -> Denmark confesses feelings.

what? and then Norway will tell Denmark that he sees him as a brother or just doesn’t feel the same, and then there’s a long range of reactions I’ve gotten from Denmarks with this, some of the worst including being harassed ooc for not shipping it, being guilted ooc for not shipping it (@ my RSD, someone telling me that they’re crying because I don’t ship something just. x20 as bad as neurotypicals), Denmark trying to force himself onto Norway sexually, and there was actually one where they had Denmark threaten to kill whoever Norway had feelings for.

For fucks sake! Once I was on as FtM!Caught Binding!Norway because I was feeling incredibly dysphoric, and I had a Denmark threaten to out Norway to the other Nordics, while Norway was begging him not to, and when he finally agreed not to  - which took actually making Norway (and me for that matter, since I have really big emotional ties with Norway) cry - he immediately jumps to a confession, which Norway sorta tells him off because what makes anyone think after threatening to out someone as trans they’re gonna accept a uwu love confession uwu uwu, which in turn upset Denmark and the entire rp turns to them - Norway trying to make him feel better, telling him that he’s his brother and always will be, etc. Making the biggest effort to make him feel better, but no instead he runs away to his bedroom, locks himself in his closet and tried to stab himself to death.

Most of these were done while I was on mobile, so unfortunately I don’t have saves to them.

Am I upset that you people portray Denmark horribly? Of course. My point isn’t the portrayals of Denmark here, though. Because the canon portrayal of Denmark is actually pretty fit for Norway, not going to lie, but my point is about how the shippers pull bullshit like this when someone doesn’t like their ship, which again ties into the homophobia of yaoi.

“Many mangas in this genre also have a plot centered around rape (the seme/top rapes the uke/bottom, then the uke realizes he actually loves the seme and allows the relationship to continue), abuse (physical, where the seme will hurt the uke, or emotional, where either part will threaten things as far as suicide if the other part dares to leave them), pedophilia (shota is a subgenre of yaoi in which boys as young as 5-6 will have sexual relationships with middle aged men). “

Most of these I’ve actually had to deal with personally aside from the pedophilia/shota bit, while I’ve never actually done an rp with someone as Shota!Denmark (I skip anyone who thinks shota is ok), I’ve seen them around, along with Shota!Norways.

I’m not going to start with the amount of Denmark’s on shamchat idealizing Norway in every way, shape and form.

dynamic.

Admittedly, Denmark is an almost ideal guy for Norway personality-wise, with how socially inept Norway is (Which Denmark can still be there for him if they’re friends), but for Denmark, Norway isn’t super suitable. The idea that Denmark needs someone to keep him in check is a little, how do I say it, wrong. Denmark is over 2000 years old, he’s smart enough to keep himself in check, while it would be nice for him to have someone to be there to tell him “You’re being too loud” and to give him a little help here and there, best friends can do that, can they not? As for a romantic partner, Denmark would probably be better matched with someone who doesn’t have trouble complimenting people or doing things solely to please him.

Denmark has his self image as a priority, and as shown by the above strips I’ve given, Norway isn’t the best to give him that. Norway is better at subtly doing things for people he cares for, not outright stating and cheering for him - which I did try to find the part of a strip where Denmark was imagining Norway and Iceland cheering for him (Or something like that), I couldn’t find it, but that one in specific emphasizes that a romantic relationship between Denmark and Norway wouldn’t quite work the same way their brothery relationship works.

Everyone teases and gets into arguments with their siblings, (Which Norway does tease & occasionally insult Denmark) and you always know that everything your sibling says to insult you isn’t serious, but even though Denmark “blatantly ignores offensive and aggressive social tones ”, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t pick up on them and he holds himself up too high for it to be a healthy relationship romantically if for either of them if Norway isn’t going to be positive, Norway is kinda negative and Denmark contrasts that greatly, but if Norway can’t give Denmark flattery and self esteem boosts straightforwardly, then Denmark won’t be happy in the relationship, which makes him less positive, making him less ideal for Norway. Whereas if they just stay as brothers, it’s easier for Denmark to just brush off any teasing or criticism Norway might have.

As for romantic relationships for Norway, I did say earlier that Norway needs someone who’s positive, good at social interaction, cheerful, friendly, etc. He also needs someone who easily picks up on the little things he does and isn’t extremely high-maintenance when it comes to needing flattery. Someone that Norway doesn’t have to be straightforward with. While we’re at it, I’ll also mention why someone who isn’t these things wouldn’t work, Norway needs someone positive and good at social interaction because he’s not these things, (He’s said it himself, he is painfully shy around strangers as he resolved to leave upon seeing them; yes I’m ignoring that he did all that speaking right after he said that, this is because I’m going off the it was only there for comedic purposes and doesn’t mean anything), and he needs someone cheery/friendly to contrast himself (I’m not saying he isn't friendly! He is quite that, but isn’t great at expressing it.), since a relationship between two characters who are really apathetic about a lot of things would just end in them thinking theyre apathetic abt each other. Picking up on little things + not needing to be straightforward with is kinda self explanatory after the stuff about Denmark.

Anyways, back on track. Kinda? Conclusion.

I do like the “quiet one & loud one”/”opposites attract”/similar tropes a lot, but when it comes to Denmark and Norway it doesn’t quite work out as well as others might. Especially with fandom misportrayals, it kinda ruins the pairing for me.

[marshmallowgoop]

So, yesterday I posted some replies to an old post I’d written about Senketsu’s death that kinda shifted into a discussion of romantic interpretations of Ryuko and Senketsu’s relationship, and in one reply, I provided a bunch of links to rebuttals for common reasons to not like the pair. But I’ve thought since that it was probably Bad Form to just dump a bunch of links without summing up their arguments in any way, so, hey, I can do so here, in a separate post that’s not so all over the place content-wise? Because I’m #passionate?

So:

8 Reasons Folks Can’t Get Down with Pairing a Girl and Her Sailor Uniform Together

1. Senketsu literally is or represents Ryuko’s father.

Much of this argument stems from the supposed shared appearance Senketsu has with Isshin, Ryuko’s dad. However, this so-called “shared appearance” really boils down to just an eyepatch, and that eyepatch has never been stated—by either the characters or the show’s staff—to be there because Senketsu is supposed to be reminiscent or representative of Ryuko’s father. In fact, it’s actually there for quite the opposite reason: it’s meant to say that Senketsu, much like a teenager, still needs to grow, and this is why he gains his eye in the finale. The eyepatch’s canon purpose was, in all actuality, to point to the fact that Senketsu is not a wise, old, mentor figure.

On that line, Senketsu is just a kid! He was only born six months before the events of the show, has absolutely zero life experience, and even admits that he is immature in a preview for episode 13.

Beyond this, Ryuko never seems to consider Senketsu to be like her father (amusingly, she refers to Gamagoori as “Dad” in the English dub), and there’s a huge, thematic idea of the two being equals. If Senketsu is supposed to be Ryuko father’s figure, the thought of them being “two in one,” “true partners,” “soulmates,” etc.—which are all canon, in-show descriptions of their relationship—simply does not gel very well. Fathers and daughters have, after all, by definition, a built-in power imbalance and are not equals in the relationship, and that’s clearly not what Kill la Kill is going for with Ryuko and Senketsu.

Perhaps most significantly, though, interpreting Senketsu as a father is intensely uncomfortable. As I’ve written before:

Ryuko and Senketsu constantly become one with each other’s bodies, Ryuko makes a joke about him not “cheating” on her when Maiko wears him, Mako says Ryuko loves him the most! and clearly means it like that because of the focus on nudity that would be super inappropriate in any other situation, Ryuko says that she’s going to make Senketsu “jealous” as he’s dying by getting together with stuff that’s not him, there’s the hugely flirtatious official song “Suck your blood” clearly from Senketsu’s perspective that includes lines such as, “You’re so hot, good looking,” there’s an official card featuring Ryuko in a bikini called “Senketsu’s Date with Ryuko”… and serious or not, all of this is hugely, hugely squicky if thought of as between a father and a daughter. Add in the fact that Ryuko and Senketsu’s relationship is pretty much always viewed in a positive light, and it seems very unlikely that being creepy is the intended effect here.

Finally, to get heavy (and to quote myself again): “This interpretation [of Senketsu as a father figure to Ryuko] implies to me that only parents can be protective and respectful and loving rather than friends or lovers, and this strikes me as… really distressing.”

Further reading:  Is Senketsu Isshin? In-Depth Analysis, Response: Isshin Protecting His Daughter Through Senketsu? Design Similarities Between Isshin and Senketsu, Innuendo in Ryuko and Senketsu’s Relationship, Further, Isn’t Senketsu Like Ryuko’s Dad?, Response: Why is Seeing Senketsu as a Father Figure Such a Popular Interpretation?, Is Senketsu Isshin Reborn?, Senketsu is His Own Person, Sentient Sailor Uniforms are Serious Business: Trope-Twisting in Kill la Kill, Is Ryuko Subconsciously Attracted Towards Senketsu Because He Reminds Her of Her Dad?,  Why the Heck Would Anyone Ship a Girl and Her Sailor Uniform, Why Does Senketsu Have an Eyepatch?, Eyepatch as a Counterpoint to Purity

2. Senketsu is alien clothing, so he can’t be interested in a romantic relationship.

Depending on how “canon” you view Senketsu’s episode preview narrations, this point could actually be argued to be canonically debunked. In a preview for episode 11, Senketsu considers the girls at Honnouji Academy and wonders who is “his type.” Additionally, he acknowledges that he’s just “a mere uniform” and nobody wants to hear him talk about favorite girl types, growing flustered and offended at the notion.

While aromatic headcanons are great, having these headcanons simply because a character isn’t humanoid and isn’t traditionally attractive totally stinks. Just because Senketsu isn’t exactly “hot” and is alien clothes doesn’t mean that, by definition, he’s not interested in a romantic relationship, and, judging from this preview, he’d be really hurt by such an assumption.

Further reading:  But Senketsu Is Clothing! He Can’t Be Interested in Romance!, Senketsu is Against the Idea that He Can’t be Interested in Romance!

3. The idea of a girl and a piece of clothing being together romantically is too ridiculous because it’s not aesthetically pleasing or hot.

Yes, it’s absolutely ridiculous. But take a moment to consider Senketsu’s situation. To quote myself: 

In the world of Kill la Kill, Senketsu is constantly degraded. He’s just a shirt, or, even worse, he’s a monster and a parasite who doesn’t deserve love and should be killed, kept away from Ryuko forever. Later on, even when people stop demonizing him so much, his autonomy is thrown aside. It doesn’t matter that he has free will and his own thoughts and feelings and emotions—he’s just a tool. He’s dangerous and should just be used for as long as necessary, and then forgotten.

Regarding his relationship with Ryuko, the two are repeatedly mocked for their friendship. Ryuko is seen as lonely and delusional for even talking to him. Both Tsumugu and Satsuki (initially) think that their friendship is impossible, since Senketsu is going to be the end of Ryuko eventually. Ryuko’s even embarrassed to be seen with Senketsu at first because of society’s standards, all due to what Senketsu is.

Sound a bit familiar? While fantastical representations of real-life problems of marginalization and prejudice have very valid criticisms—namely, that they’re not exactly examples of real representation—I also feel their significance is misunderstood.

I’ve seen folks complain that, say, fans of X-Men will write lengthy essays about the oppression of mutants but then turn the other cheek at real oppression, but these narratives are really for the oppressed and marginalized, not those who don’t experience it and have the ability to ignore it. 

The late children’s author Diana Wynne Jones once powerfully wrote that stories that were a “factual presentation of any social problem” either “passed you by, or [they] upset you because there was nothing you could do about it.” Children, she argued, feel helpless when reminded in Very Real Terms of how dire their situations are, and she had a reason for such an argument: she had a terrible childhood herself, and it was only through fantasy that she was able to find catharsis and better manage the very real problems she faced. Through the fantastical representations of these problems, she was able to look at them in a new light and help herself. (Source: Reflections: On the Magic of Writing, page 183.)

I don’t wholly agree with Jones myself, and I definitely see the value in those “Real Books” with the Real Problems that she dismissed, but she brings up a good point: fantasy matters. Ridiculous as Kill la Kill is, there’s value in Senketsu’s story and value in a story where this oppressed, marginalized character with a criticized, mocked relationship with another finds happiness in a romantic relationship with them.

As for the other part of this argument, love isn’t all about looking hot together or making out.

Further reading: I Don’t Like Ryuko/Senketsu Because Senketsu’s Not Human, A Misinterpreted Platonic Relationship

4. Senketsu was made with Ryuko’s DNA.

In episode 17, Aikuro reveals that Senketsu’s Life Fibers were spliced with Ryuko’s DNA, but gene splicing does not suddenly make two organisms siblings, related in any way, or clones of each other. Ryuko and Senketsu being together is as much incest or selfcest as a glowing rabbit and a jellyfish being together when the rabbit was spliced with the jellyfish’s protein that makes it glow. Just as it would be ridiculous to suggest that those two creatures are suddenly related or clones from gene splicing, it would be ridiculous to suggest that Ryuko and Senketsu are suddenly related or clones from gene splicing.

Further reading: Gene Splicing, Could Senketsu Be Considered Ryuko’s Brother/Child?

5. Senketsu is Ryuko’s abuser and it’s gross to pair them together.

Yes, Senketsu’s first scene is awful. Though it’s completely out-of-character for him, he never behaves similarly again, and I’d argue that he’s out of his mind and starving in it, that doesn’t excuse what he did, and it’s fair to feel that his actions are unforgivable.

But if they are, then that makes the actions of many other characters in this show unforgivable, too. As I’ve written before:

...characters like Mako and Aikuro do similar things to Ryuko [as Senketsu does in his first scene] when they are in their right minds. Mako gropes Ryuko’s breasts in her Hallelujah in episode 3, takes off her bra in the one in episode 5, and constantly invades Ryuko’s personal space and grabs onto her when it clearly makes Ryuko uncomfortable (see the motorcycle scenes in episodes 8 and 17). Yet, this is seen as funny, cute, and romantic. Then there’s Aikuro, who completely disrobes Ryuko in episode 2, immobilizes her with needles while she’s naked, and flirts with her when he’s her teacher and when doing such is completely inappropriate and brings Ryuko a lot of discomfort. And this, again, is seen as funny.

That’s not to say that I want to bash on these characters or pairings. I just ask why it is that these scenes and behaviors are excused as funny and cute when they’re very clearly not, while Senketsu’s first scene is—as it should be!—almost universally agreed to be disgusting and uncomfortable. Ryuko and Senketsu are one of my most favored relationships in all of fiction, but I would never dream of saying that their first meeting is anything adorable or hilarious. I honestly find it frightening that a lot of similar behavior—unwanted touching and removing of clothing—is brushed aside and laughed at because the perpetrator is a sexy teacher or a cute girl.

Of course, Senketsu’s first scene is a lot more intense, and I’m not stupid. I know exactly what they were referencing with it. It deserves to be controversial, and deserves to be spoken up against. But I think the hate against Senketsu for it is pretty… misguided, to say the least.

In my mind, there are bigger issues with the series’ handling of assault than Senketsu’s first scene, but beyond that, Senketsu is honestly probably the most respectful character towards Ryuko in the entire show. He never forces her to wear him when she doesn’t want to—and the fact that Ryuko does take him off multiple times across the series when she doesn’t want to emphasizes that her wearing of him isn’t her being a poor prisoner, but her choosing to be with him—and Senketsu values Ryuko’s thoughts and opinions, openly communicates with her, and constantly considers her wellbeing. 

As I once put it, “[Senketsu] is nothing like that first scene in all actuality, and Ryuko and Senketsu’s relationship is built not on nonconsensual behaviors and violence, but on respect and understanding.”

Further reading:  Senketsu’s First Scene*, Further Analysis*, Even More*, Final Thoughts*,  Ryuko’s Choice to Wear Senketsu, More, Even More*,Implications of Ryuko’s Acceptance*,  Senketsu: A Sweet Character

6. It’s offensive because it erases wlw representation.

This is a very valid point, and it’s admittedly caused me some feelings of shame. “Is something wrong with me,” I’ve wondered, “for preferring Ryuko/Senketsu to Ryuko/Mako? Is it offensive?” After all, I don’t especially feel comfortable pairing characters in canon, same-sex relationships in opposite-sex pairings. While the characters could indeed be bi or pan and this is not inherently offensive in itself (and, indeed, could be very, very welcome!), oftentimes it can feel... rather distasteful when there are so few canon, same-sex pairings out there.

But here’s the thing: the idea of canon wlw representation in Kill la Kill is always going to be a subject of debate when the Word of God literally denies it. And here’s the other thing: representation matters, but so does good representation.

If Mako were a man, his relationship with Ryuko would not get the same kind of praise. As I’ve written before:

[Mako as a man] would be hated. So incredibly, horribly hated. People would look at the way he touches Ryuko’s breasts (episode 3), removes her bra (episode 5), and drools over her (episode 9) and find such things disgusting and dehumanizing. He’d be pointed to as one of the worst things in the show, and seen as evidence of how the series is awful for women. Mako’s behavior coming from a man would no longer be seen as cute and endearing, but despicable.

And when the finale came? If that kiss were held up as inarguable proof that Mako and Ryuko are a canon couple, there’d also be a huge backlash. Ryuko, pulling her lips away and uncomfortable as a man kisses her in a comical fantasy sequence—when that man also has a history of disrespecting her boundaries? Ew!

“If they are supposed to be a couple,” I can imagine people saying, “then it’s atrocious and evidence of how straight people and straight romances are awful.” That kiss would not be widely seen as a mutual attraction, but evidence of how Ryuko is victimized, and how this victimization is a joke.

Of course, I think this is all going a bit far, and don’t especially agree with such statements if Mako is a man or a woman. But the fact remains that most of the folks who come to the defense of Ryuko and Mako’s kiss as the encapsulation of a healthy romance that deserves praise would probably not had Mako been a man—and for more reasons than just because Mako would be a man.

And I really do feel this: I’ve seen the argument that it��d be offensive if Ryuko and Mako weren’t canon because of the abuse and that the canon-ness makes it okay.  I’ve seen the admittance that the pairing would not be good at all if Mako were a man because of her treatment of Ryuko.

Which—as someone who has had a partner treat me like Mako does to Ryuko in a relationship that ended extremely, horrifically badly (and, heck, as someone who just pushes for healthy relationships!)—this deeply disturbs me.  

To quote myself again:

There are many reasons I prefer Ryuko and Senketsu’s relationship to Ryuko and Mako’s, but one of them is that I find it to be a much more positive, healthy relationship. Senketsu doesn’t idolize Ryuko like Mako veers into, Ryuko really talks to him and communicates with him while she often puts on a façade of being okay for Mako, and there is a lot more respect here—I feel Ryuko rather undermines Mako’s abilities (always trying to push her out of fights when she’s more than capable, and even going so far as to promise her snacks to stay out of it in one instance like she’s just a little kid), but most importantly, we don’t have all these nasty instances of Senketsu invading Ryuko’s personal space, grabbing her boobs, etc. all in the name of “cute” humor or fanservice.

Add in the idea that Ryuko and Senketsu’s relationship is arguably rather progressive in itself as noted in Reason #3 above (and especially if you consider that Senketsu’s gender identity is completely up to interpretation), and that it basically has just the same amount of “evidence” going for it as Ryuko and Mako do (most notably with an official card literally titled “Senketsu’s Date with Ryuko” and Ryuko explicitly stating that her feelings for Mako and Senketsu are the same in episode 22 in that they’re both “more than friends” to her), is it really so wrong of me to prefer this pairing, personally, and does it really make me a terrible, awful person, especially when I do find many things about Ryuko and Mako’s relationship very personally hurtful?

Everyone values different things, and I completely understand and respect those who disagree with me here and prefer the idea of a romantic Ryuko and Mako relationship. But at least for me, my preferences for romantic Ryuko/Senketsu is less about how I’d “rather ship a girl with an article of clothing than admit she has romantic feelings for another girl” and more about how I’d rather ship what I see as a healthier, more respectful relationship that does have a good message about overcoming prejudice and is just as canonically feasible as the wlw relationship (and could actually be argued to be that in itself anyway!) 

In this way, I don’t think there’s anything inherently offensive or homophobic about preferring romantic Ryuko and Senketsu, and, hey, let’s be real, SenRyuMako is honestly the most canon.

Further reading:  “People Would Rather Ship Ryuko with an Article of Clothing Than Admit She Has Romantic Feelings for a Girl,” Returned to Here, Ryumako* (Kinda Here), What if Senketsu Had Been More Female-Coded?* (Kinda Here, Too)

7. They’re better as friends and the idea of platonic soulmates is nice.

Completely valid, solid point.

8. Just don’t care for it.

Same here.