#the only thing I maybe. disagree with us the selfcest I don’t even care about. that though the messages around it were terrible so yeah

[worstloki]

1/10 I've never been a big Marvel fan and one of the main reasons is because I think they're so fucking bad at characterization and dealing with actual important problems in their movies/shows. When I first got into the films I was a teenager dealing with a lot of family/identity issues who had gone through a lot of "brain washing" type shit and I connected with Loki a lot on that level, I saw myself in him in a lot of ways (including some of his bad aspects) and being able to look at him with-

2/10 compassion and understanding helped me sort of come to terms with a lot of my own stuff. The way Marvel handled his character though has always upset me, like on a personal level. All of his trauma is completely ignored, or made out to be a joke at times, and the clear racism undertones to his characters whole arch/story are played off like they don't matter. It's very clear Odin/Asgardians are very racist towards the Frost Giants and this plays into how they view Loki, yet this issue is-

3/ never addressed. Loki never comes to terms with his identity or even realizes his Jotun lineage isn't something to be ashamed of, he simply ends up taking Odin's last name and being "proud" to be Asgardian which, sure, if he's finally happy in his family good for him, but the writing there is so awful and I hate knowing they'll probably never even attempt to fix it. I want him to have an arch focused on HIM instead of everybody else, he needs to come to terms with/accept himself. The other-

4/ thing is just.. the whole Loki show. Like what the actual fuck were they doing with that? They played off emotional and physical torture as a joke and completely absolved the perpetrators of any responsibility or repercussions because "haha, it's framed like a joke and it's not visibly gruesome to watch so it's okay and you should be okay with Loki going through all this and never acknowledging how fucked up it is, plus ending up friends with the guy who did it to him!" Like it was-

5/10 genuinely hard for me to enjoy the show when they were just treating Loki like shit the entire time and expecting everyone to find it funny. It was not funny. At all. Especially after he'd already gone through a fuck-ton of trauma and torture and abuse in the film that apparently took place right before the events of the show. I can understand Loki himself having an unhealthy mindset about it, since he'd been dealing with abuse already, for what seemed like a while, and that could really-

6/10 fuck up his perceptions/mindset, but that does not excuse the actual writers from framing it as something funny! Torture's not fucking funny! ESPECIALLY when it's happening to an already tortured and extremely abused character, who's basically just gone through hell due to a bunch of trauma and brain washing! Loki deserved a break, deserved an arch to find and accept HIMSELF, not this weird romcom/drama shit where he's dumbed down and his abuse is played for laughs and he gets stuck with-

7/10 this weird-ass selfcest shit that seemed like they were trying to play up this "love yourself!" trope but instead plays even more into this idea that no one else will ever love him because he's so terrible so he just needs to settle for himself, even though the alternate version of him (who actually is pretty terrible) ends up being like "haha you suck" and leaving him too. Like what is the message here? I am very confused and quite frankly upset. I'm sick and tired of seeing this kind of-

8/10 treatment towards Loki. He's not perfect, he's done fucked up stuff and he does deserve to have consequences for his actions but this is not that! Playing his abuse, trauma and fucking TORTURE for laughs is not a good "point" to make! Playing up the "no one will love you if you don't love yourself" trope just to throw that (already bad take) back in his (and the viewer's) faces is fucked up. I hope the Marvel writers grow a brain and realize that there are real-life people who watch these-

9/10 stupid movies/show and connect with the characters and see themselves in them and actually do have their lives/outlooks influenced by the stories they're telling. I don't want other kids getting into this fandom and relating to these characters just to watch their stories basically tell them "your abuse was funny but your actions are unforgivable, even if you didn't really want to do them/were forced to do them, and no one will ever love you" because that's traumatizing in and of itself! I-

10/10 am just so tired of Marvel being so fucking lazy with their writing because it's genuinely harmful at this point. I can't even image how much it would have hurt to watch that show when I was a teenager. Having all of my worst insecurities and fears shoved in my face with a big neon sign screaming that they WOULD come true, I WAS a terrible person and I was GOING to end up alone. I just- Loki deserves better, his fans deserve better, and every kid who relates to him deserves so much better.

10/10 +1 (Sorry for rambling in your ask box so much! You can ignore all of this if you want.) The way they just threw in "I'm a narcissist" was also really gross. I can totally see it fitting Loki but they handled it so poorly and instead of reflecting on how his trauma caused it/how he was battling it, they just used it as a way to go "yeah, Loki's really scary and bad, see? He has the scary and bad mental illness!" like- fuck you! NPD does not make you bad, shut up and stop being ableist!

u are correct 👏👏👏

[small-round-and-angry]

My opinions about the Loki (2021) series. Spoilers and all that.

I took some time off the fandom until I felt it was time to make this post, if only to get it out of my system, so I can finally rest. I thought, since I was so pumped for the series to begin with, before it was launched and everything, and how I waited to expectantly for every episode that was airing weekly, that the empty feeling I was experiencing after it was all done was just because, well, it was all done.

I thought maybe it was the normal empty-chested-feeling you get when you finish a movie, series, or book that you really liked / waited a lot for.

It was not it. It didn’t pass. It got worse.

I’m going to put this under a cut, and under the anti-tags, because I know some people liked this show and not everyone has to be miserable with me.

I want to preface this by saying that I respect everyone that was involved in this project, and I know that it may be gut-wrenching to receive criticism on something that you worked in, but I feel cheated. I feel lied to. It’s one thing to work hard and be thoughtful and still receive bad reviews, but I don’t think this is the case at all.

To start it all, I was so excited to see Loki again. He’s the only character that I maintained any attachment to throughout so long, sometimes more, sometimes less, but I always considered myself a fan since I saw The Avengers (2012) with my parents in the theaters, at the ripe age of 12. To be honest, Loki was what got me into superhero movies, and into the marvel fandom at all. And I knew, or at least suspected, that they would do something different with the character. I was ready for that, after reading the comics and realizing that MCU Loki and Comics Loki are two different versions of the same character (more on that later). And I thought it was even going to be for the best, since Tom Hiddleston, bless his heart, was one of the executive producers and, I thought, would have more of a say on Loki’s character arc during the series.

What I watched was, to be completely fair with myself, not Loki. I couldn’t really pinpoint it at the time, but I keep expecting something to happen after he was captured by the TVA to show us his mind at work. A scheme, a plan, anything remotely smart that he cooked up. And yet, nothing. He kept acting…Not Loki. As time passed, I hoped he was biding his time, fooling everyone, that he would reveal his masterplan at the season finale and go back to the main timeline. The series ended and I didn’t see Loki, any of them, act as Loki once.

Maybe it’s because I am a fan of the older version of MCU Loki. The darker, more complicated one. I didn’t want a redeeming arc at all, I don’t think all villains or anti villains need a redeeming arc. That’s boring. And, to my interpretation of his character, shouldn’t be in his future at all. Loki thrives on the gray area. I love not knowing what he is to the other characters, the chaos, the lying and manipulation, the grand schemes. This new content we’ve been getting, since Ragnarok, depict him as a more comedic, campy character (which is …fine? Meh, I don’t care for it).

And of course, that’s not to say Tom Hiddleston didn’t do a good job. Poor man did his best with what was given to him by the writers. It’s hard to keep a character consistent, however, when every director and screenwriter seems to have a different idea of who they are. He kept it together fairly well when Taika attempted to assassinate Loki’s character, but Kate Herron snapped his neck harder than Thanos ever could. And for what?

Sylvie.

Now, hear me out. There’s nothing wrong with the concepts of Sylvie, Lady Loki, and a Love interest. Separately. In trying to bring everything together in one character, the writers not only could not come up with a compelling woman character, but also had to bring down an already well established character, the TITULAR character, no less, so she could look somewhat presentable, which is insulting. And they Still failed. I don’t like the pairing either, but that’s not what I’m talking about (right now). The truth is, I don’t know Sylvie. She just got here, I have no emotional attachment to her whatsoever, so I won’t feel for her the same I feel for Loki, who’ve I watched for almost a decade. And instead of trying to build an emotional connection between Sylvie and the viewer, they chose to spoon-feed us a romance between her and Loki.

Well, more between Loki and Her, and not even that. I felt like Loki was always trailing her like a lost puppy, and big eyes and expectations, and she was giving him…Absolutely nothing. All the sweet moments between them were initiated by him, all the talking about feeling were done by him, all the looks and gestures…And although I understand Sylvie grew up in apocalypses and Loki grew up in a palace, she still claimed to have romantic partners. Multiple, man and women. And still, showed no visible interest in Loki up until the kiss scene, which I suspect was more to shut him up and send him flying that anything.

Excuse me if I want Loki to have a love interest who is actually invested in him too.

And Why make her a Loki variant at all if she is adamant she isn’t Loki? Why go to the extent of dying her hair blonde (where in the apocalypse did she manage to get her hair blonde? WHY?) and then give her horns? If she was taken as a child, where did she get the very Asgardian like leather armor she used? WHERE IS THIS INFORMATION?

If they were going to go so far to alienate her from the identity of being a Loki variant just so they could pair her with Loki and it not be weird (it was), why make her a variant at all? If you’re going to make a selfcest pairing, at least commit to it. Sylvie Lushton, from where they got the name, isn’t a Loki Variant, if anything She’s an Amora Variant. Why name her Sylvie if she has no relation to Amora?

The plot has so many holes and is so disappointing. I was promising Loki playing around and causing havoc with time traveling. When I saw Richard E. Grant had been cast, I imagined the big bad would be King Loki, like in the comics! Something about Loki seeing what he becomes if he let darkness completely consume him, and finding balance in his chaos, after all. The premise of Loki healing though observing himself, or variants of himself, was honestly good. His variants, however, where so underused, poorly used, made Loki look like a fool. Even he was ashamed of their interactions. And Kid Loki apparently Killed Thor, which makes him the leader (???) and that’s never mentioned again. President Loki, who was a big part of the appeal of the trailer, is gone in two minutes. And then there’s the mirror scene from the trailer, that didn’t even make it to the series.

There are other things that bother me a lot about this too, but it’s not my place to discuss them in dept. To list, if anyone is interested in knowing: The underdevelopment of black character, and the reaction of the fandom, to my knowledge, to said black characters, in special Ravonna and Boastful Loki. The misrepresentation of gender fluid people, which if I can recall was one of the points they sold to us as something they would touch into Loki’s characterization. Some people have pointed out that it was biphobic to pair Loki with a woman after he “came out” on screen as bisexual. I am bisexual, and I disagree, but I can see why it’s an issue for a lot of people, as mlm relationships are rare in MCU canon. What I thought was Biphobic, however, was having Loki not show us he was bi, rather than telling us.

In summary, I am very disappointed, and I am mourning. This series managed to do what End Game didn’t, which was kill all hope I had to ever have Loki back. He’s gone.

[ironwoman359]

Is it bad to like Deceit/Roman and Logan/Deceit? I started a blog for it but I've gotten nothing but people telling my to go kms and that the ships are toxic and I'm a toxic person. I just think they are kinda cute together. I just entered the fandom through the most recent video so I know everything isn't perfect but is the ship really that bad? Also, what is rem/rom (?) I see a lot of people hating on it but I don't know what it is.

Okay...so I’m gonna answer your second question first because it’s easier to explain and is more cut and dried. 

Remrom is the ship name for Remus/Roman. A lot of people don’t like it because, since canon presents them as *brothers, they see the ship as incest, which triggers and/or squicks a lot of people. If this is the case for you, the best way to handle that is to just blog those tags and not interact with those blogs. Harrassing people online over a ship never did anything positive or productive. 

Which seques into your first question, is it bad to like Roceit (Roman/Deceit) or Loceit (Logan/Deciet)? Of course not. I see loads of people ship it all over the fandom, especially Roceit. Here’s the thing, if you’re new to the fandom you won’t have heard about this, but there used to be a hUGE debate in the fandom about Deceit and whether or not liking him/shipping him with other characters was “toxic” or not. I thought that had all died out by this point, since there are more episdoes with Deceit in them (especially with where his character was left at the end of Putting Others First) but apparently those comments are still around and just lurking in the shadows more. 

But here’s the thing. One, those fears about Deceit are, in my opinion, very unfounded, especially with the current state of the character, and two, it’s fanfiction. NONE of the ships will be canon, cuz that’s not the type of show this is, and in fanfiction, we get to not only explore the dynamics that characters do have in canon, but the dynamics that they could have if things were different. If this WAS the type of show where a ship was possible in canon, would I see Roceit as plausible (or even healthy) ship with where the characters are at in the show right now? Absolutely not, they’re way too at odds with each other, Deceit’s motives are still shady at best, and BOTH of them need to make reparations with each other before their relationship can improve. 

But none of that matters in fanfiction. Because they are cute together, and there’s a lot of potential between those characters. Now, someone else may disagree for whatever reason. They might not like the character dynamic, maybe they can’t see past the tense state of their canon relationship, maybe Roman or Deceit or both just aren’t their favorite character. That’s all totally fine too, people are going to engage with content in different ways. But that doesn’t give people the right to come into your inbox and hurl insults and death threats. In fact, NOTHING gives people the right to treat you that way, on the internet or in real life. Keep on shipping Roceit and Loceit and whatever else you want to ship, and block people who try to harrass you over it. Here’s a tutorial on how to block anons (since most of the time people sending that kind of crap aren’t brave enough to send it off anon). If you’re getting hate anons over a ship or character, you are not the one with the problem, the hate anons are.  

Also, if you’re following blogs that post a lot of stuff you don’t like, be it ships you don’t care for or negative posts about ships and/or characters you like, you can unfollow them, scott free! Carefully cultivate your own online experience, and suddenly fandom becomes a wonderful thing. Welcome to the fanders, I hope you have a lot of fun! Check out the roceit and loceit tags, there’s loads of good content there to enjoy! And if anyone else out there reading this thinks it’s okay to send hate over a ship, then you can kindly leave this blog, because this isn’t gonna be the place for you! 

*Arguments can be made surrounding this, such as A) since they’re all figments of Thomas’s mind, they aren’t really brothers so it’s not really incest, or B) since they’re all figments of Thomas’s mind, ALL the ships are incest and/or selfcest. There will be people who feel either way, and as far as I’m concerned those feelings are valid, but they’re both minority opinions as far as I can tell. Either way it doesn’t matter, everyone will have their own interpretation of the material and how they engage with it is ultimately their business.