#these two... have given me brainrot... excessive amounts of it

[oneluckydragon]

The wives of all time? The wives of all time!!

@s1nn0hh I love Gaia and Erida so much c:

[away-ward]

This is the message from the Damon Torrance Hate anon. Below the cut is a message I received from someone who has less than favorable feelings (complete disdain, actually) for Damon Torrance.

If you are a fan and might find yourself upset over someone not loving your fav, read at your own risk. It literally opens with the disclaimer: "This is not a safe space for Damon Torrance or Kill Switch fan" so, uh. heed the warning.

Editing Note: Not as bad as I thought at first. It is long though. Edited with some added thoughts.

I actually don't interact with fandom outside my blog or responding to select posts. I mean, I saw people hating on Em on goodreads and was immediately like "this is not the place for me" and promptly created a blog so that I could curate my experiences.

So...I guess this is the rest of the fandom, huh?

(psst, the pizza boxes contain all my love for willemmy)

I don't know. I've always been partial to the "find people who like what you like and you'll have a great time" idea. And I think I've done a pretty good job so far.

These are the only PD books I've read, other than Punk 57 for obvious reasons. I have no interest in the others, so I can't relate on devouring PD's books. And honestly, I was bored with Kill Switch too. I was bored with Hideaway, and Corrupt my second time reading it. I almost didn't get to Nightfall (oh, what could have been. I could have saved myself all this DN brainrot...but alas, here we are).

I don't know where you got the idea that having money and privilege equals competency... but that's very much not the case. In fact, I would argue the opposite? Doing without the things you need and not have access to tools creates creative problem solvers; people who aren't used to having excess tend to know how to get around that or learn how to deal without it.

Added Edit: Also, Winter went to a school for the blind for years. She didn't live with her abusive, non-accommodating family. They accommodated her by sending her to a school where she could dance and that would cater her disability. They also go her a guide dog when she came back, and tried to speak to the school about what she wore as part of the uniform because she didn't like it. She was just as privileged in that regard as the other wealthy people in the story. Her family may have been criminals who valued money above loyalty, who basically sold their daughter for financial security, thereby setting Winter apart as "different," but they didn't ignore her blindness. Arion grew up with a younger sister who got a lot of attention for her disability and being a victim of the Torrance Boy. She acted selfishly and stupidly, but it's easy to see how not being given a fair amount of attention after Winter fell might have given her a complex.

Either way, I didn't walk into DN thinking I was going to get a perfectly planned heist story with intelligent criminals, where you have to study their every word and move because you never know what's coming next. I would have loved it if that were the case, but it's not what I was expecting.

The horsemen in general have double standards. They see things from their point of view and only caring about what they want. I'm not sure if we're supposed to see this as character flaws, a result of their privilege, or if this is something we're suppose to ignore so that we can root for them. *shrugs* it's not really that deep, is it?

What do you mean Michael and Rika got it together by Conclave? These two are a mess every day of their lives. As long as they're happy, I guess? I mean... Rika changed all their wedding plans at the last second to accommodate the multi-wedding party and Michael was just like 'yeah babe whatever you want' ? They don't ever talk about anything.

I have no thoughts on Rika being mayor at 22 other than it's dumb. I guess it's a good thing they live in a town that watched her grow up so she's the town's darling? Who's gonna vote against her, and risk the Torrance sibling's ire?

I'm not sure what character growth you're referring to. I haven't looked at Rika that hard. But I agree that the other characters needed a chance to shine. It should have been more balanced. Come on, PD, share the love. It can't be the Rika and Damon Show all the time.

I always forget he's only have Russian. I really didn't like the surprise mom storyline. Half Russian, half Dutch South African.

I'm not sure if it's "fetish" with Russians or just a love of mafia stories? Because I see just as much for the Italians and Irish as I do for Russians...

The thing about Damon is that he has a valid excuse actually, let's go with "reason." He had a valid reason for the way he is. Between all four boys, I'd say that Damon and Kai are the only ones who can actually explain why they do the things they do.

Damon didn't just experience "abuse." He was neglected and experienced CSA and punished for things that weren't his fault, over an extended period of time. With no one to come to his aid until he forced Banks to stay with him. And the most truly unfortunate part of this is that there are far too many readers who can relate. Too many readers have gone through the exact same or similar enough experience and find comfort in Damon's inner thoughts. Not that they support all of his actions (I truly hope not), but maybe they understand where he's coming from and the journey he has to undergo to being a better person? Also, sometimes people just like fictional men who like to draw blood.

Now, all that is to say... I didn't find Damon any more interesting that the other guys. He wasn't more twisted or darker. Just a different shade of gray. For me at least. I wasn't here for the hype, having read the series long after it finished. I don't completely understand all of the Damon love either. I wasn't impressed, but I was sympathetic to his story. I liked him a lot more in the past scenes with Winter than most other parts of the series. But because he was such a wild card, I usually was paying attention to what he was doing. Was I overall entertained? No. but I was paying attention.

I think a big part of this series was supposed to be "These men underestimate and don't appreciate women...except for the few that can keep up." Banks and Rika (and Emmy and Winter) are supposed to appear more competent than the boys sometimes. Otherwise it's just dumb, hot girls getting strung along by even dumber, hotter boys. And that's no fun. So yeah, of course Rika and Banks are going to pull the rug from under Damon sometimes.

I'm not gonna pretend that if Damon had tracked down a brother in addition to Banks (come on, we know he probably has like at least ten siblings somewhere out there), that Gabriel would have chosen the male heir over Banks. Banks was a last resort and a way to piss Damon off. I can't remember if it worked or if Damon was happy to be rid of the responsibly. And honestly, Banks was happy to take it. She'd been underestimated her entire life and finally had the chance to do what she knew she could. I hope that Banks and Damon had a good long talk and he was happy for her.

But oh, Damon standing back and letting Banks kick ass? Love siblings who support each other. Can we at least agree on that?

Damon biding his time was weird. But I think that had a lot to do with the fact that the story was tied to only happening in October, so Damon had to simmer for a year between books. I think it might have been interesting if we had seen through the narrative that Damon had been making moves and October is just when it always came to a head because of the pressure of Devil's Night. But Damon has a tendency to go to extremes, so being overly dramatic (throwing an entire wedding to Arion to get access to Winter and her family's fortune) or being completely invisible does fit his MO. He's a drama queen, after all.

I would have loved if we'd gotten to see more of the relationship between the guys. If we knew how Damon's bond with Michael and with Kai worked, instead of only with Will. I think their friendship should have had more emphasis overall, since it was such a catalyst for events in Corrupt.

I've never watched VD (and I'm not going to) so I have no idea how they compare. I know who you're talking about - just not the details of the character.

No worries. We'll crown you ruler of Damon Hater Nation. Here's your crown.

Yeah, i didn't feel much towards Winter one way or another. On my part, I was mostly confused. It seemed like she liked to tempt and tease Damon and then convince herself she was innocent? But again, I haven't re-read Kill Switch so I don't remember very well.

But I will disagree with you on the Emmy front. Winter was immediately accepted by Rika because of their past relationship in school. Kai and Michael didn't have a problem with Rika bringing her into the group, and Will was all for using Winter to get to Damon, but did seem to genuinely like her as well.

Winter had the benefit of being the enemy of their enemy, until the Damon was no longer the enemy. And then they were all just friends, except for Winter and Damon, who were also lovers. At no point was Winter on the outside of the group or made of feel less than because of what she did to Damon (other than by Damon at his worse moments). Those boys, whether intended or not, tried to make Emory feel like she was the worst person for sticking up for family.

You bring up an interesting point about Alex. Unlike Banks, Winter, and Emory, she was in the books from the start. She got the chance to interact with every single character. So even though she not a main character, not even deserving of her own novella, we have plenty of interactions of her to pull from, and barely any from the other three girls with each other or other members of the group. That's really not fair.

I have no thoughts on the group sex scenes. I basically read DN for the character dynamics and wanting to know about the little nerd Will loved enough to commit several crimes for. I could do without them and it wouldn't change the story much for me.

Added Edit: I thought Winter was trying to comfort Will and herself from the trauma they just experienced together. I think Will went along with it because he finds comfort in sex. It could have been anyone and he would have been in the same spot. Damon was the one who put limits on their interaction because he has control issues and doesn't want anyone else to be "in" Winter, ever.

Beyond that, I have no thoughts on what it says about their characters.

I haven't read ZA (zodiac academy, i think? I also won't be reading it).

So wait? You hate Alex but hate the way people treated Alex??? I have no idea what you mean, honestly, because one of my biggest gripes with NF was the scene where Alex was laying in a hospital bed while the boys made all sorts demands of Aydin because "Alex deserved it". like. Those boys very much did love Alex and consider her one of their own. Will didn't go after Martin until after he shot Alex. Because who did Will fight when it came down to it? Not Martin.

He picked Aydin.

He left Emory try and fight Martin.

So don't start with "the group doesn't love Alex." Because that is absolute nonsense.

And why did Emory have to stand there and watch them act that way in the hospital??? When they'd never said or did anything for her? They never even apologized!!!

I mean...Alex said it was her job? At least he respects her right to claim it. Rika was always trying to get Alex to do something else, like she was still stuck on her friend wanting be a sex worker. I think Alex could have gotten any job she wanted (Rika could have hired her for literally anything; Alex worked at the dojo; she was helping Winter plan tours). The job she chose to introduce herself with was clearly a point of pride for Alex (healthy or not) and Damon acknowledge it was her right. Was he gross about it? yeah, probably. It's Damon, after all. but he didn't shy away from it. She owned it and he respected that.

The group/share scenes mostly went over my head.

Added Edit: I think I do understand what Anon was saying now. They hated Alex for being in everything and the way she treated Emory, but hated the way the Horsemen and occasionally the other women treated Alex as if she was disposable.

My only response to this is Alex made it her job to get close to powerful, wealthy men. She was also the only one unattached romantically in Conclave, so she wouldn't be "cheating" on anyone by preforming her "job."

For PD, I feel that Alex was whatever they needed her to be, and that's Alex's biggest failing as a character.

Did Rika do that more than once? Must have missed it...

And I'm not sure if that scene was more about Damon than it was about Winter comforting Will. At that point, Damon and Will's friendship had been reestablished and Winter held some affection for Will as well. So similar to the Rika comforting Kai scene, Winter wanted to comfort Will and Damon just had to let that happen because he couldn't "control her" or tell her what do to. But he could control Will, so Will got the limits.

It was the exact same situation with Michael, Rika, and Kai. Michael couldn't impose his will on Rika anymore than Damon could with Winter. I have a lot of sarcastic thoughts about this scenario, mostly because it does conflict with Michael and Damon's characters up until that point, but PD needed it to happen so...

But that's what I meant when I said PD uses the same scenarios over and over again. What happened with Michael/Rika/Kai was the same as Damon/Winter/Will. And what happened with Will/Emmy/Alex/Aydin was the same thing that happened with Michael/Rika/Banks/Kai. It's the exact same situation, and even similar motivations, just with different faces.

I'm so tired.

What do you mean they don't matter to Will? Everything Will did was for the family. Will was gone for over a year, and I'm sure he thought about home in that time. We come into the story with Emory, which is what consumes Will's thoughts from that point forward. The circumstance changed for Will but we didn't get to see the before, only the after.

Alex was shot by Martin while Will was fighting Aydin so Aydin couldn't get to Alex. And then Will threw Martin and himself off a cliff, nearly dying. Like...Will clearly cares too much sometimes.

Wait wait wait are you switching tracks of the Damon hate train? You know that any Damon sympathy is strictly forbidden in Damon Hate Nation! Do I have to revoke your crown????

Why would Emmy need to make it look like she wanted nothing to do with him? In high school, she didn't want anything to do with him. After, they had that bond over you know...killing a person...And he was the only one who defended her (kinda). She didn't need to pretend to avoid him, and she didn't even really try to.

I mean, I think of all the boys, Will would have probably been the most likely to help Damon. But Damon wouldn't have let him. Mainly, he'd have to explain his abuse, which would tarnish Will's sunshine view of the world, and embarrass him. It might have changed the dynamics of their relationship, and Damon couldn't allow for that. But I think if Will wasn't out getting drunk, or was getting drunk in the cemetery instead of the bus, and had stumbled upon Damon, he probably would have helped. He's a ride or die kind dude.

I mean...overall, the guys do suck. They're also just not meant to be analyzed to this degree lol. I mean, I do with willemmy only because I want to write silly little stories about them. I really don't think this deeply about the rest of the series usually, unless I'm asked...

...and I certainly didn't intend to become any type of voice in this fandom.

I...have no thoughts.

Did you mention Em???? I mean yeah...Damon and Emory did have a deeper connection that Winter and Will!

Where were their moments? I want me some Damon and Emory non-spicy moments. The scene at the end wasn't enough.

I guess they're over hyped but maybe I only feel that way because I think Willemmy isn't hyped enough?? and technically they're also just a bland white couple with a boring trope for a backdrop (I mean, rich popular jock and the scholarship nerd? GrumpyxSunshine? Golden retriever bf and black cat gf? who's never heard of that???)

I hope you rested after all that. Do you feel better having gotten it off your chest?? I sure hope so, that was a lot. It's okay. this is a safe space. deep breath in....and exhale.

It's okay. Damon Torrance can't hurt you.

You're fine. My day wasn't ruined. I don't consider myself a Damon hater and I was a little confused at the start (for some reason, I only get these messages right before I go to sleep so I'm half awake when I read them for the first time), but we got there in the end.

If you have anything to say to me or the anon, all I ask is that we're respectful in the comments and replies. Thanks!! This is all meant in good fun (at least from my end).