#anti-damon torrance

[away-ward]

Note: I think this is "The Will Post" people reference sometimes, but I'm not sure. Here and Here are the links to the original Anon messages.

This was the first time I'd received a message like this and I didn't know how to response. Eventually, it became the norm for people leave me ranty messages about this series and it's characters. I usually got a kick out of them because you guys are hilarious, and then I'd tried to answer seriously because I like discussion and discourse. So, I developed the method of answering that is seen on other posts. I just wanted to make clear why this one looks different. I wasn't trying to single them out or make an entire post about Will. Anyway.

On to the response!

Original response below, edited for grammar, spelling, and word choice. Some rephrasing, but essentially the same thoughts.

I think, first and foremost, it’s essential to get out of the way that to enjoy this series, you can’t look at any of the characters too closely. Because once you do, you’ll realize almost everybody here sucks in some way or another.  

That being said, let’s look at the characters way too closely.  

Anon, I organized your thoughts by character/relationships to make it easier to manage my thoughts and form a response. So, I'll take it individually instead of responding to each part directly as you wrote it. I don’t think I or anyone else can say anything that will change your mind, but as regards to how I approach the characters when writing them, these are my thoughts.

But thank you so much for reading my fics! The fact that people spend their time doing so is always such a big compliment, even if some of the things I wrote...didn't quite sit right with you.

Disclaimer: these are my thoughts and opinions and are in no way meant to be asserted as fact or canon. Thank you.

FYI, this is a long one, folks. Grab a drink before you start.

First up:   

Will and Alex  

You’re absolutely right that Will and Alex only knew each other for about five years when we got to Nightfall. I messed up when I wrote Reality and said seven years. I realized it about two to three weeks after posting it and never went back to fix it. Good catch.  

I see that you have a problem with Alex. That’s valid. I’m not entirely sure if it’s how I portray Alex and her relationship with Will or Alex from the source material that you have a bigger issue with. Still, I’ll try to explain my feelings about her beyond what I’ve said in other posts.   

Feel free to correct me if I get anything wrong because, honestly, I have disregarded most of what Alex has said and done. After all, it hardly ever matters to the plot. Like you, I have the viewpoint that Alex’s involvement in the story doesn’t affect anything and, more often than not, makes a scene worse. I can’t think of a single time when Alex did something one of the other characters couldn’t do.   

I think the timeline is that Will was arrested at 19 and released at 21/22. He would have met Alex soon after his release. It would be just a few months before the beginning of Corrupt. We first meet Alex through Michael. She comes off as confident and self-assured, in complete control of herself. She doesn’t hesitate to let Rika know she’s an escort when the opportunity arises. Her boldness gives off the feeling that she’s world-wise, with years of experience.   

The reality is that she’s the same age as Rika. Given this, she would have only been in this line of work for a few months to a year, if we consider her account of events to be accurate. It tracks that Alex would be reeling from losing her friends and scholarship. She didn’t just lose Aydin when her roommate betrayed her. Alex lost her entire support system, and her plans for the future. Maybe she did figure out how to land on her feet through sex work, but I don’t think she was completely content with it – at least not as much as she tries to appear to be. She always said it was temporary, not a forever job, and she planned on doing more once she graduated.   

Towards the beginning of their relationship, Will and Alex had a more casual approach to each other. While they genuinely enjoyed each other’s company, they weren’t close. But a year passes between Corrupt and Hideaway, and that is plenty of time to get to know someone and develop an intimate relationship. Their friendship deepens over time, but because of how the story is told with the reader only viewing this very narrow window of the character's lives during October every year, we don’t see much of that progress. We don’t know what significant moments these two have shared, what they’ve revealed to each other when it was four in the morning and no one else was around. I believe Will and Alex found solace in each other; peace they couldn’t find with anyone else available to them.  

We can see their progression over the years in small moments

In Corrupt, when Damon is being aggressive with Alex, Will laughs and leaves it alone. I think his feelings are that this is her job and she can handle herself. Damon is his friend. Will sides with Damon.

In Hideaway a year later, Will supports Alex in the shopping scene. His comment to Banks is pretty neutral but more positive than before.

Yet, in the third year of their friendship or relationship (whatever you want to call it), we see Will defending Alex against Damon.

Damon's petty words are nothing compared to the way Damon physically treated her just two years prior. Some might argue that Will is acting out of his anger towards Damon, and using Alex as a prop to do it. That's fair. Will isn't the most emotionally intelligent person at this point of the story.

I think it's a mixture of both. Will wants to hurt Damon by replacing him (with a girl nonetheless. The horror), but it's also that his relationship with Alex has changed. He cares for her more now than he did even a year ago. He won't tolerate Damon saying spiteful things to Alex.

In Kill Switch, when Damon is threatening war, Will is the one who brings up Alex. He sees value in her being at his side.

Anon, you asked how their friendship could be that deep if she didn’t know that Will was missing. I don’t have Conclave on me, so I could be wrong, but weren’t Will’s parents lying for him? First, he was actually globetrotting – posting pictures on social media from various locations. Then the lie was he was with some program to help in third-world countries? Either way, it’s entirely believable that it would take a while to figure out something wasn’t quite right with the story. Should they have figured it out earlier? Sure. It shouldn’t have taken his younger cousin to make his three closest friends aware that Will was missing.   

But in the Horsemen’s defense, they’re married with children and running businesses. And it’s not like they weren’t trying to reach him. 

At the end of Kill Switch, Damon talks about how they got him clean from drugs, but alcohol was a bigger issue. He also mentions that he's been leaving messages often, waiting for a response. Damon was mad that Will missed the birth of his son, and it's not like Damon wasn't trying to make Will aware that it was happening.

Damon tried. Will made the decision to leave without telling anyone and go to a location they wouldn't be able to find him, and then he arranged for his family to lie about his whereabouts. I think the boys have an excuse for not knowing something was up right away, and then for acting when they did.

The way Conclave focuses on other issues is not the character's fault; it's what the author wanted to focus on. But there's nothing to say that the characters didn't eventually get down to business and figure out what needed to be done to get to Will. I agree that that portion of events would have been a more interesting story and would have set us up beautifully for Nightfall, but I've digressed enough.

Getting back to Alex. I find that she tends to lean towards putting her pleasure above all else, unless the situation is dire, or she's been given a direct instruction by one of the other characters. She has moments where she takes things seriously, but for the most part she seems to flounce around with a childish air. And Will does most of the time as well, and maybe that’s why they gravitated towards each other. While Kai, Michael and the others are growing, Will is stuck and Alex is on a similar level. They leaned into each other, and this worked for a while. But then Will was ready to grow, and he knew he couldn't let them carry his weight any longer, Alex included. 

The bottom line, I don’t like Alex. I’ve never liked Alex. I was indifferent to her for a while, but Nightfall did her no favors in my eyes. In reviewing the series, I’ve come to dislike her even more. To use what you’ve said, Alex gives me the "ick." The way she naturally falls into coercing and manipulating people doesn't rub me the right away and never has. I'm not saying she's ever forced someone to do something they didn't want to do, but possibly things they'd rather not?

For instance, in Hideaway, we have this thought from Banks about how Alex coerced her into drinking during the sleepover scene. Banks, while wanting to enjoy a "normal" life, also felt it was important to keep her wits about her when around Kai. So Alex "coercing" her to drink feels like she ignores what people want so that she can have a good time.

Again, in Hideaway, Alex as pulled Lev, I believe, away from his post so that she can try to sleep with him. Same as before, Lev wasn't opposed to the idea of sleeping with Alex, but he had a job to do, and that moment was not the time. Alex ignored that because wanted what she wanted. And like a child, she wanted it there and then.

(I mean, I guess the argument could be made that Alex was the only one who could have helped Banks tap into her femininity because Banks hated everyone else, especially Rika but still. I don’t like the way she behaves in general.)

But when I’m writing about these characters – especially when the setting for a fic is in the canon universe – I don't want to ignore PD intended for their relationship. They wanted Will and Alex to have a deep connection different from what he shared with the others. I’m not convinced it was ever meant to be romantic, but it was meant to be deep.  

I think you’re also correct in saying that Will used his friendship with Alex to soothe and distract from the pain of what happened between him and Damon.   

Which brings us to our next part.   

Will and Damon  

I think it’s a bit harsh to say Damon was always a tool to distract Will from reality. I believe Will quite liked his reality in high school. He was privileged, wealthy, attractive, athletic, popular, and had a good home life. The only thing missing was the girl of his dreams, and he was delusional enough to think it was only a matter of time before she came to him. There was nothing to distract from. Will enjoyed every second of it. He loved the drinking, the partying, the sex, and the camaraderie between his friends and teammates. He lived for it. 

He never wanted to leave it.  

And I think Damon loved Will. He wanted to keep Will “safe” inside this little bubble where nothing could hurt him or take away his joy. Damon wanted Will to be happy, as long as Will's happiness didn't take him away.   

The second Will started talking about Emory like she was different from the other girls was the second Damon began to hate her. Because Emory had the ability no one else had: she could either take Will away from him or destroy Will. And Will would let it happen because he’s full of love, and he's soft.   

And that’s precisely what happened when Emory and Will did finally connect, as Damon knew it would.   

Damon did know Will. He knew what he liked, what he wanted, how he thought. He probably understood Will better than Will understood himself. Which is how he knew exactly what to say and what do to hurt Will.    

That's why Damon was sick at the thought of losing him, completely out of his mind with grief at what he’d done. That's why when Damon thought of leaving, all he wanted was to take was Winter, Banks, and Will.

I’d dare to say it’s Michael and Kai that Damon doesn’t care about all that much. Not that he hates them. He’d kill for them. Walk through fire for them. Go to prison rather than rat them out for a lighter sentence. But there’s something in Will that Damon wanted to protect and keep.  

The problem was Damon's a little control freak in the worst way. This means he goes way too far in doing anything. His whole redemption arc is learning how not to do that with literally everything and still be okay. The little weirdo.  

I’m not a Damon apologist, if there is such a thing. Damon’s trauma and redemption arc doesn’t do anything for me. I also don’t think it's any excuse for his actions before then. I won’t deny that he does add to the series for me. Most of the time, if Damon was there, I was paying attention, whether I liked him or not.   

I’ve said it elsewhere, but I would have loved for his redemption arc to be the last part of the series because it makes more sense as a conclusion. To read Nightfall, not knowing if he was going to be a real villain by the end of the series, would have made his scenes with Emory and the other characters all the more chilling,  

But the story is what it is, and again, I don't want to ignore what PD was trying to do with Damon and Will, so when I write about the two of them, where one is, the other follows.   

On a side note, PD did an excellent job of introducing the potential bond that Damon and Emory would eventually share. They can relate to each other on multiple levels: 

The abuse. 

The love for Will. 

Their artistic visions. 

The way they covered for each other when they didn’t need to. 

Their bond would be much stronger than Em’s with Alex, and I wish the fandom focused on it more.   

Besides

Moving on.

Will   

You’re right when you say that Will was doing all those things before he went to prison, before he almost died, and before Damon left him.   

The main difference is that he was doing it for fun before all of that. He didn’t need to do it; his life didn’t revolve around it. It wasn’t an everyday occurrence but more of an occasional thing. Once Emory broke his heart and his friends left for college, we see him start to spiral just a little   

And that was after only losing Emory.

He needed his life at TBP to stabilize, and once his support system was gone, he couldn’t cope. And I like to focus on that aspect of Will. He was weak and soft before because he’d never faced a real challenge. His privilege, and later Damon, prevented him from experiencing any difficulties, doing him a disservice. When change was on the horizon, Will didn’t know what to do. He didn’t know who he was outside of being a rich teenager. And had things gone along without interruption, he probably would have continued down that path, either never growing up completely or eventually OD’ing.   

Going to prison might have saved his life, and if Damon hadn’t betrayed him, he might have been okay.  

Except Damon did betray him. So, he started spiraling again, this time worse than before, because now he didn’t even have his friends to fall back on. He couldn't go a day without getting drunk or high. As Banks said, he was only sober long enough to get to his fridge. Nothing was good. His two remaining friends didn’t like how he was acting, and they were moving on without him. The girl of his dreams didn’t care that he went to prison for her – she didn’t even call! (Note: I'm not made about this; it's just Will's feelings on the subject). Rika wasn’t the revenge he was hoping for, and now he didn’t even have that to look forward to. All he really had going for him was the approval he received from Alex.   

I haven’t considered how much Alex had a hand in things. I want to think that since they were new friends, she took an “it’s not my place to tell him what to do; his friends will step in if it goes too far” position. At the same time, I can see her encouraging him because it’s what she wanted to do to cover her own pain and fear. Again, because we don’t get moments outside these high-intensity situations, we don’t really know how their friendship works.   

But even so, a person’s early twenties are turbulent, to begin with, and Will had to learn how to cope with losing Emory, going to prison, nearly dying, and losing his best friend all within a matter of a few years.   

The fandom talks a lot about Damon’s trauma, but we ignore entirely that between the four boys, Will comes in a close second for the most traumatized. All his trauma is fresh, and in a short period of time.    

He was an active participant in his own downward spiral. He hid his pain behind a mask of smiles and good times, which carried him through until it didn't work anymore. Furthermore, he knew when Damon came back, he had no more excuses. The thing about relationships is that they require good communication and mutual respect, neither of which Will had. Mainly because he didn’t respect himself. With his friends' help, Will kicked his drug habit. It’s possible that with the clarity that came with it, he saw himself dragging his friends down. His friends were starting families and business, but he was still stuck. Kai said it best when he said Will never did anything on his own, and that was true until Will decided to go to Blackchurch.

So, they would have no reason to suspect that Will was doing anything other than what he said – traveling the world and figuring things out. But Michael, Kai, and Damon hadn't abandoned him. They were trying. Will was the one who left them hanging.   

To expect his friends to respect and trust him, and to develop some respect and trust in himself, he had to grow up. But his friends cut him a lot of slack. They let his stupid mistakes go unchecked and unpunished because it’s Will. I think in their eyes, he never meant any harm, or he was young and dumb, or he was hurting. They gave him a million excuses because they loved him. They weren’t strong enough to be the firm hand and give him the tough love he needed. Before anyone else, Will realized what he needed, and knew he couldn’t get it from his friends. Beyond that, he was too embarrassed to ask for it, to be seen as weak to them. Because everyone looked at their group and saw Will as the weak link, Will began to see himself that way too. And he was right. 

The Will before Emory and the Will after prison are two different people. I guess it’s up to the reader to decide who is more authentic. I choose to see Will before Emory as the real him, Will after prison, a mask he wears to keep from being hurt again, and Will during Blackchurch as someone stripped down to their barest form. He’s lost before Emory shows up, not knowing whether he can return to the real world and start again. It takes some prompting from Emory to get him moving and feeling like himself. And after Blackchurch, we see the Will from high school begin to resurface. 

I’m not sure where I’m going with this thought. But I think all the things you’ve complained about regarding Will are why he went to Blackchurch. He wanted to quit the drugs and drinking permanently, so he could grow up and be the person his friends needed. Then they wouldn’t have to pull his weight. I hated Will through most of the series because of his actions, the way he treated Banks and Winter specifically. Once I realized he was hiding all that heartbreak and pain, his motives and actions became more obvious. Again, pain is not an excuse to hurt anyone, but we are reading about imperfect characters who make mistakes and rarely, if ever, take the high road.

I’d say that part of the story is that when others hit low, they go lower. They’ll go to hell if it means getting one over on anyone who's pissed them off.  

They’re petty.  

All of them.  

The Horsemen   

  

I love friendships. Especially strong ones. Ones that don’t make sense on the surface. The kind of friendships where you know if it weren’t for unconditional love and loyalty, these people would probably stab each other multiple times, but instead they'll stab anyone who hurts them.

The problem with the Horsemen is that because they are supposed to focus on the four romances, we don’t get much of their friendship. PD gives us small glimpses here and there, and then says, “Just trust me, they’re brothers.” However, that leaves a lot to be desired when the entire plot hinges on them practically dying for each other every other year. 

But I’ve read other books about solid relationships. I’ve watched shows with the same dynamic. The idea of a unique foursome with an unparalleled bond isn’t unheard of by any means. It's an old trope. So, I can fill in the gaps.  It’s sometimes irritating to have to do that when I shouldn't have to. For instance, I have no idea what would happen if I put Emory and Michael alone in a room together. None. They stand in separate corners and don’t talk to each other, and this is because their relationship receives zero development. If you’re going to tell me that this group is a close, chosen family, willing to die for each other; that they loves and need each other, and that each member of the family (everyone from Michael their leader, to Emory the most recent addition) provides something critical to make the family work, then I need to see it. I need to feel it. But if I can't determine how two people in this family would interact, then something is missing.

But I have the ability to add what isn’t there, and to pull inspiration from other sources to fill-in what PD clearly intended. (If there's one thing about Devil's Night, is the potential for Head Canons galore!)

As you said, Anon, there were many times when their problems could have been solved by communication. However, I don’t think communication was a skill any of these men developed. Especially when admitting they were wrong, or talking about their feelings, or showing any sign of weakness in front of each other. Pride is a cruel master; it will trip you up if you give it a chance. But I don’t think their faults were a lack of love for each other.   

Michael was overly cautious where Will was reckless, which often caused disagreements. Michael acknowledged this in Corrupt. I still think there is plenty of evidence that they cared about each other and knew each other on a deeper level. I get why you’d say they didn’t care about Will, but if we only look at the one time Will jagged left when he usually goes right, it’s understandable that they’d be a little slow to react.

I mean, think about them being on a team in high school. If Will always preferred to shoot from a certain position, then Michael and the others would work to put him in that position. They’d get the ball to him. But what if he suddenly decided to be on the other side of the court? Then they’d be throwing the ball to an empty spot, because that’s where Will always was before. Just because Will did something he’s never done before doesn’t mean they don’t know him.

They didn’t expect Will to pull the Blackchurch maneuver for the same reasons I mentioned above:  

Will never did anything on his own.  

He went traveling first, either because he needed to or with the purpose of disappearing. After that, he quickly switched gears without telling anyone.

He had his family lie about it. It was probably his grandfather dispensing information, and who's going to call Senator A.P. Grayson out? 

As I said before, if you look at these characters too closely, you’ll find that nothing is redeeming about any of them. But they sure are fun.

I think?  

I don’t know anymore. Are we having fun? ARE YOU???  

Emory... versus the world?

Emory learned to think on her feet through trial and error with Martin. Unlike Will, she had to learn to survive, which made her think things through before making a decision. Of course, it made her too wary and overly defensive at times. One wrong step and she could have lost her life to Martin losing control.  

Emory had a plan to survive, to eventually escape. It didn't include falling for a pretty boy with pretty words. She knew, as good as it sounded and as much as she wanted it, any plan that Will came up with to save her and her grandma could have gone sideways real fast. She made the decision that had the best chance of succeeding, because it relied on her alone. She made the decision out of fear, but I don’t think that fear was misplaced. Hating her because she was forced to make that decision is dumb.

I will say she gave Will mixed signals. But...she was young and emotional and he was the one good thing in her life outside her grandma. I can't blame her for being human and needing him, but it's not wrong to hold her accountable for that.

Just like it's not wrong to hold Will accountable to the fact that he didn't listen for the three years she tried to warn him to stay away. Just like it's not wrong to hold him accountable for pushing her when she had previously said no.

I believe I’ve said this elsewhere, but I don’t know where. I don’t understand Alex and Emory’s relationship. I don’t get why Alex was so friendly with Emory when they first met and then judged her for not being around when Will was hurt. Either she understood Emory’s struggle, or she didn’t. Either way, one of these scenarios doesn’t make sense.  

As for Aydin - I don’t care about Aydin. I hated him. I still hate him. I hate that he’s barely three years older than Emory, kidnapped her, messed with her mind, forcibly kissed her to make Will and Alex jealous (which is still considered a form of sexual assault, by the way), and she still wanted to consider him a mentor. I don’t care that he was more valuable as an ally. I thought their bond was too strong after a week to be taken that seriously.

I mean, Anon, you’re criticizing the bond between the Horsemen even though they’ve known each other for over a decade, but Emory's known Aydin for all of five days, and that’s all it takes for her to need him and understand him? Because she realized he’d be better as their ally against the families? Because she's smart? I call BS on this entire thing. This was one of the weakest storylines in my opinion and I mentioned on another post how I think it could have been helped just a little bit if Aydin had been older. It wouldn't have fixed it! But I could have tolerated it more. I stand by that.

I still don’t know what Aydin brought to the table that Micah or Rory didn’t. He's there because of only because of Alex, so to favor him while despising her also doesn't make sense to me. They're literally the same.

Anon, are you talking about how other fans treat Emory like she’s the worst character because she hurt Will? When literally all of these characters have hurt each other—all of them. The only characters we don't see taking actions that hurt another are Emory toward any other character that isn't Will, and that's because there isn't time. The series ended before we could see Emory interact with any of them, and all their major problems were over. There was no opportunity, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have if the series had been ordered differently. So, if people are hating on Emory for hurting Will alone, then they're probably biased toward one of the other girls (probably Alex). Not saying that readers can't dislike Emory for other reasons. She won't be for everyone and I'm sure there are valid reasons to dislike her. For me, she was the one I could relate to the most out of the main four, and I really felt for her struggles. She had the most realistic character arc, and her finding her way back to Will made the most sense over Rika, Banks, Winter, and even Alex with Aydin.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on everything you said. Somewhere along the way, I lost track of what I was actually attempting to say. Regarding my way of writing specifically, since I'm filling in voids and holes that I felt were too unanswered, I tried to remain as close to canon as I could. Not necessarily what was there, but what was intended. I don't always keep them in character as PD wrote them, but I try to get the same vibe.   

This means, even though I don’t like Alex, I know Will likes her. So when I write about Will, she’s sometimes there too, and it's sometimes positive.

***

Anyone is welcomed to share their thoughts...if you're brain's not numb by now. If it is, I understand. Thanks for making it this far and listening to my rambling.

-KO

[stargirlie25]

Lizzie young🤝 Nikova banks🤝Emory scott🤝Silver Queens🤝Nesta Archeron🤝Donatella dragna🤝 all being our fav problematic girlies

[onpagetwentyone]

KILL SWITCH (Devil’s Night #3)

Penelope Douglas

PUBLICATION DETAILS

An ARC has been provided by the author/ the publisher in exchange for an honest review.

Kindle Edition, 522 pages

Published February 9th 2019 by Penelope Douglas LLC

RATING

5/5

SYNOPSIS

"I've done far worse than what I went to prison for. She has no idea how bad this can get."

WINTER

Sending him to prison was the worst thing I could've done. It didn't matter that he did the crime or that I wished he was dead. Perhaps I thought I'd have time to disappear before he got out or he'd cool off in jail and be anything but the horror he was.

But I was wrong. Three years came and went too fast, and now he's anything but calm. Prison only gave him time to plan.

And while I anticipated his vengeance, I didn't expect this.

He doesn't want to make me hurt. He wants to make everything hurt.

DAMON

First thing's first. Get rid of her daddy. He told them I forced her. He told them his little girl was a victim, but I was a kid, too, and she wanted it just as much as I did.

Step two... Give her, her sister, and her mother nowhere to run and no fuel to escape. The Ashby women are alone now and desperate for a knight in shining armor.

But that's not what's coming.

No, it's time I listened to my father and took control of my future. It's time I showed them all--my family, her family, my friends--that I will never change and that I have no other ambition than to be the nightmare of their lives.

Starting with her.

She'll be so scared, she won't even be safe in her own head by the time I'm done with her. And the best part is I won't have to break into her home to do it.

As the new man of the house I have all the keys.

*Kill Switch is a romantic suspense suitable for readers 18+. It is advised to read Corrupt (Devil's Night #1) and Hideaway (Devil's Night #2) prior to reading this book. Both are available on Kindle Unlimited.

REVIEW

Penelope Douglas is definitely one of my favorite authors, after reading her book Misconduct and Corrupt, I immediately became a fan. Devil’s Night Series is one of the darkest series and certainly out of my comfort zone, but it is Penelope Douglas, I’m going to read whatever she writes.

Penelope Douglas didn’t disappoint me with the 3rd installment of the Devil’s Night series. I never thought Damon's story will go this way but I won't trade it for any other stories out there. Damon Torrance is awesome.

I expected Kill Switch to be full of surprises and guess what, I’m damn right! My expressions were "fuck!", "damn!" and "crap!" the entire time plus "OMG!" in every plot twists! This book was indeed a roller coaster ride that put me right at the edge.

We all know Damon as the anti-hero in Corrupt and Hideaway. His story really intrigued me and I was damn stoked to finally get into his head. Damon is yep, an asshole, the anti-hero we all discovered in the 1st two installments. There is however more than what we saw in the past. I honestly don't know how to describe him at first, but I find him amazing as well. I find him sweet, and he will do every damn thing for the people he loves. Yup, we are still talking about Damon Torrance, ladies and gentlemen. You didn't misread that. Also, he is hot. Definitely HOT.

Then we have Winter Ashby. At first, I can't understand Winter but as the story progressed, I was able to get her more and more. Winter is a strong and an amazing character, she's also selfless and the main reason to keep Damon in line. I can't think of a better pair for Damon Torrance except Winter Ashby. They're perfect. I want her and the entire gang to be in Will's book.

All in all this book is perfection. I really didn't want to finish it yet because I missed everyone especially Kai and Banks but at the same time I can't stop turning the pages because I'm DYING to know what will happen next. It was gripping, intense, scorching, twisted, full of fucking plot twists and surprises. A total page-turner that will make you crave for more.

I adore Penelope Douglas' writing style, she has the ability to turn dark and twisted words into something beautiful. I'm not a fan of dark romance but I find myself loving this series. Kill Switch is definitely one of the best books in the Devil's Night Series and absolutely one of the best Penelope Douglas book I've ever read.

I know waiting for Will's book is a torture but I'm damn looking forward to it.

[away-ward]

This is the message from the Damon Torrance Hate anon. Below the cut is a message I received from someone who has less than favorable feelings (complete disdain, actually) for Damon Torrance.

If you are a fan and might find yourself upset over someone not loving your fav, read at your own risk. It literally opens with the disclaimer: "This is not a safe space for Damon Torrance or Kill Switch fan" so, uh. heed the warning.

Editing Note: Not as bad as I thought at first. It is long though. Edited with some added thoughts.

I actually don't interact with fandom outside my blog or responding to select posts. I mean, I saw people hating on Em on goodreads and was immediately like "this is not the place for me" and promptly created a blog so that I could curate my experiences.

So...I guess this is the rest of the fandom, huh?

(psst, the pizza boxes contain all my love for willemmy)

I don't know. I've always been partial to the "find people who like what you like and you'll have a great time" idea. And I think I've done a pretty good job so far.

These are the only PD books I've read, other than Punk 57 for obvious reasons. I have no interest in the others, so I can't relate on devouring PD's books. And honestly, I was bored with Kill Switch too. I was bored with Hideaway, and Corrupt my second time reading it. I almost didn't get to Nightfall (oh, what could have been. I could have saved myself all this DN brainrot...but alas, here we are).

I don't know where you got the idea that having money and privilege equals competency... but that's very much not the case. In fact, I would argue the opposite? Doing without the things you need and not have access to tools creates creative problem solvers; people who aren't used to having excess tend to know how to get around that or learn how to deal without it.

Added Edit: Also, Winter went to a school for the blind for years. She didn't live with her abusive, non-accommodating family. They accommodated her by sending her to a school where she could dance and that would cater her disability. They also go her a guide dog when she came back, and tried to speak to the school about what she wore as part of the uniform because she didn't like it. She was just as privileged in that regard as the other wealthy people in the story. Her family may have been criminals who valued money above loyalty, who basically sold their daughter for financial security, thereby setting Winter apart as "different," but they didn't ignore her blindness. Arion grew up with a younger sister who got a lot of attention for her disability and being a victim of the Torrance Boy. She acted selfishly and stupidly, but it's easy to see how not being given a fair amount of attention after Winter fell might have given her a complex.

Either way, I didn't walk into DN thinking I was going to get a perfectly planned heist story with intelligent criminals, where you have to study their every word and move because you never know what's coming next. I would have loved it if that were the case, but it's not what I was expecting.

The horsemen in general have double standards. They see things from their point of view and only caring about what they want. I'm not sure if we're supposed to see this as character flaws, a result of their privilege, or if this is something we're suppose to ignore so that we can root for them. *shrugs* it's not really that deep, is it?

What do you mean Michael and Rika got it together by Conclave? These two are a mess every day of their lives. As long as they're happy, I guess? I mean... Rika changed all their wedding plans at the last second to accommodate the multi-wedding party and Michael was just like 'yeah babe whatever you want' ? They don't ever talk about anything.

I have no thoughts on Rika being mayor at 22 other than it's dumb. I guess it's a good thing they live in a town that watched her grow up so she's the town's darling? Who's gonna vote against her, and risk the Torrance sibling's ire?

I'm not sure what character growth you're referring to. I haven't looked at Rika that hard. But I agree that the other characters needed a chance to shine. It should have been more balanced. Come on, PD, share the love. It can't be the Rika and Damon Show all the time.

I always forget he's only have Russian. I really didn't like the surprise mom storyline. Half Russian, half Dutch South African.

I'm not sure if it's "fetish" with Russians or just a love of mafia stories? Because I see just as much for the Italians and Irish as I do for Russians...

The thing about Damon is that he has a valid excuse actually, let's go with "reason." He had a valid reason for the way he is. Between all four boys, I'd say that Damon and Kai are the only ones who can actually explain why they do the things they do.

Damon didn't just experience "abuse." He was neglected and experienced CSA and punished for things that weren't his fault, over an extended period of time. With no one to come to his aid until he forced Banks to stay with him. And the most truly unfortunate part of this is that there are far too many readers who can relate. Too many readers have gone through the exact same or similar enough experience and find comfort in Damon's inner thoughts. Not that they support all of his actions (I truly hope not), but maybe they understand where he's coming from and the journey he has to undergo to being a better person? Also, sometimes people just like fictional men who like to draw blood.

Now, all that is to say... I didn't find Damon any more interesting that the other guys. He wasn't more twisted or darker. Just a different shade of gray. For me at least. I wasn't here for the hype, having read the series long after it finished. I don't completely understand all of the Damon love either. I wasn't impressed, but I was sympathetic to his story. I liked him a lot more in the past scenes with Winter than most other parts of the series. But because he was such a wild card, I usually was paying attention to what he was doing. Was I overall entertained? No. but I was paying attention.

I think a big part of this series was supposed to be "These men underestimate and don't appreciate women...except for the few that can keep up." Banks and Rika (and Emmy and Winter) are supposed to appear more competent than the boys sometimes. Otherwise it's just dumb, hot girls getting strung along by even dumber, hotter boys. And that's no fun. So yeah, of course Rika and Banks are going to pull the rug from under Damon sometimes.

I'm not gonna pretend that if Damon had tracked down a brother in addition to Banks (come on, we know he probably has like at least ten siblings somewhere out there), that Gabriel would have chosen the male heir over Banks. Banks was a last resort and a way to piss Damon off. I can't remember if it worked or if Damon was happy to be rid of the responsibly. And honestly, Banks was happy to take it. She'd been underestimated her entire life and finally had the chance to do what she knew she could. I hope that Banks and Damon had a good long talk and he was happy for her.

But oh, Damon standing back and letting Banks kick ass? Love siblings who support each other. Can we at least agree on that?

Damon biding his time was weird. But I think that had a lot to do with the fact that the story was tied to only happening in October, so Damon had to simmer for a year between books. I think it might have been interesting if we had seen through the narrative that Damon had been making moves and October is just when it always came to a head because of the pressure of Devil's Night. But Damon has a tendency to go to extremes, so being overly dramatic (throwing an entire wedding to Arion to get access to Winter and her family's fortune) or being completely invisible does fit his MO. He's a drama queen, after all.

I would have loved if we'd gotten to see more of the relationship between the guys. If we knew how Damon's bond with Michael and with Kai worked, instead of only with Will. I think their friendship should have had more emphasis overall, since it was such a catalyst for events in Corrupt.

I've never watched VD (and I'm not going to) so I have no idea how they compare. I know who you're talking about - just not the details of the character.

No worries. We'll crown you ruler of Damon Hater Nation. Here's your crown.

Yeah, i didn't feel much towards Winter one way or another. On my part, I was mostly confused. It seemed like she liked to tempt and tease Damon and then convince herself she was innocent? But again, I haven't re-read Kill Switch so I don't remember very well.

But I will disagree with you on the Emmy front. Winter was immediately accepted by Rika because of their past relationship in school. Kai and Michael didn't have a problem with Rika bringing her into the group, and Will was all for using Winter to get to Damon, but did seem to genuinely like her as well.

Winter had the benefit of being the enemy of their enemy, until the Damon was no longer the enemy. And then they were all just friends, except for Winter and Damon, who were also lovers. At no point was Winter on the outside of the group or made of feel less than because of what she did to Damon (other than by Damon at his worse moments). Those boys, whether intended or not, tried to make Emory feel like she was the worst person for sticking up for family.

You bring up an interesting point about Alex. Unlike Banks, Winter, and Emory, she was in the books from the start. She got the chance to interact with every single character. So even though she not a main character, not even deserving of her own novella, we have plenty of interactions of her to pull from, and barely any from the other three girls with each other or other members of the group. That's really not fair.

I have no thoughts on the group sex scenes. I basically read DN for the character dynamics and wanting to know about the little nerd Will loved enough to commit several crimes for. I could do without them and it wouldn't change the story much for me.

Added Edit: I thought Winter was trying to comfort Will and herself from the trauma they just experienced together. I think Will went along with it because he finds comfort in sex. It could have been anyone and he would have been in the same spot. Damon was the one who put limits on their interaction because he has control issues and doesn't want anyone else to be "in" Winter, ever.

Beyond that, I have no thoughts on what it says about their characters.

I haven't read ZA (zodiac academy, i think? I also won't be reading it).

So wait? You hate Alex but hate the way people treated Alex??? I have no idea what you mean, honestly, because one of my biggest gripes with NF was the scene where Alex was laying in a hospital bed while the boys made all sorts demands of Aydin because "Alex deserved it". like. Those boys very much did love Alex and consider her one of their own. Will didn't go after Martin until after he shot Alex. Because who did Will fight when it came down to it? Not Martin.

He picked Aydin.

He left Emory try and fight Martin.

So don't start with "the group doesn't love Alex." Because that is absolute nonsense.

And why did Emory have to stand there and watch them act that way in the hospital??? When they'd never said or did anything for her? They never even apologized!!!

I mean...Alex said it was her job? At least he respects her right to claim it. Rika was always trying to get Alex to do something else, like she was still stuck on her friend wanting be a sex worker. I think Alex could have gotten any job she wanted (Rika could have hired her for literally anything; Alex worked at the dojo; she was helping Winter plan tours). The job she chose to introduce herself with was clearly a point of pride for Alex (healthy or not) and Damon acknowledge it was her right. Was he gross about it? yeah, probably. It's Damon, after all. but he didn't shy away from it. She owned it and he respected that.

The group/share scenes mostly went over my head.

Added Edit: I think I do understand what Anon was saying now. They hated Alex for being in everything and the way she treated Emory, but hated the way the Horsemen and occasionally the other women treated Alex as if she was disposable.

My only response to this is Alex made it her job to get close to powerful, wealthy men. She was also the only one unattached romantically in Conclave, so she wouldn't be "cheating" on anyone by preforming her "job."

For PD, I feel that Alex was whatever they needed her to be, and that's Alex's biggest failing as a character.

Did Rika do that more than once? Must have missed it...

And I'm not sure if that scene was more about Damon than it was about Winter comforting Will. At that point, Damon and Will's friendship had been reestablished and Winter held some affection for Will as well. So similar to the Rika comforting Kai scene, Winter wanted to comfort Will and Damon just had to let that happen because he couldn't "control her" or tell her what do to. But he could control Will, so Will got the limits.

It was the exact same situation with Michael, Rika, and Kai. Michael couldn't impose his will on Rika anymore than Damon could with Winter. I have a lot of sarcastic thoughts about this scenario, mostly because it does conflict with Michael and Damon's characters up until that point, but PD needed it to happen so...

But that's what I meant when I said PD uses the same scenarios over and over again. What happened with Michael/Rika/Kai was the same as Damon/Winter/Will. And what happened with Will/Emmy/Alex/Aydin was the same thing that happened with Michael/Rika/Banks/Kai. It's the exact same situation, and even similar motivations, just with different faces.

I'm so tired.

What do you mean they don't matter to Will? Everything Will did was for the family. Will was gone for over a year, and I'm sure he thought about home in that time. We come into the story with Emory, which is what consumes Will's thoughts from that point forward. The circumstance changed for Will but we didn't get to see the before, only the after.

Alex was shot by Martin while Will was fighting Aydin so Aydin couldn't get to Alex. And then Will threw Martin and himself off a cliff, nearly dying. Like...Will clearly cares too much sometimes.

Wait wait wait are you switching tracks of the Damon hate train? You know that any Damon sympathy is strictly forbidden in Damon Hate Nation! Do I have to revoke your crown????

Why would Emmy need to make it look like she wanted nothing to do with him? In high school, she didn't want anything to do with him. After, they had that bond over you know...killing a person...And he was the only one who defended her (kinda). She didn't need to pretend to avoid him, and she didn't even really try to.

I mean, I think of all the boys, Will would have probably been the most likely to help Damon. But Damon wouldn't have let him. Mainly, he'd have to explain his abuse, which would tarnish Will's sunshine view of the world, and embarrass him. It might have changed the dynamics of their relationship, and Damon couldn't allow for that. But I think if Will wasn't out getting drunk, or was getting drunk in the cemetery instead of the bus, and had stumbled upon Damon, he probably would have helped. He's a ride or die kind dude.

I mean...overall, the guys do suck. They're also just not meant to be analyzed to this degree lol. I mean, I do with willemmy only because I want to write silly little stories about them. I really don't think this deeply about the rest of the series usually, unless I'm asked...

...and I certainly didn't intend to become any type of voice in this fandom.

I...have no thoughts.

Did you mention Em???? I mean yeah...Damon and Emory did have a deeper connection that Winter and Will!

Where were their moments? I want me some Damon and Emory non-spicy moments. The scene at the end wasn't enough.

I guess they're over hyped but maybe I only feel that way because I think Willemmy isn't hyped enough?? and technically they're also just a bland white couple with a boring trope for a backdrop (I mean, rich popular jock and the scholarship nerd? GrumpyxSunshine? Golden retriever bf and black cat gf? who's never heard of that???)

I hope you rested after all that. Do you feel better having gotten it off your chest?? I sure hope so, that was a lot. It's okay. this is a safe space. deep breath in....and exhale.

It's okay. Damon Torrance can't hurt you.

You're fine. My day wasn't ruined. I don't consider myself a Damon hater and I was a little confused at the start (for some reason, I only get these messages right before I go to sleep so I'm half awake when I read them for the first time), but we got there in the end.

If you have anything to say to me or the anon, all I ask is that we're respectful in the comments and replies. Thanks!! This is all meant in good fun (at least from my end).

[away-ward]

Yea sure i dont mind you posting my ask on your page. Adding to my post before, i think its also interesting how rika's response to willalex was THAT, because its true, no one really knows will bcs 1. Will himself never really opened up to anyone everything about himself except for emmy, 2. They just never cared enough to get to know him above whatever shallow perception of him that he put in front of them. I still cant stand the fact that they didnt expect will to pull that blackchurch move bcs huhhh?? Why couldnt he? Was i shocked when i read that scene? Sure, but not bcs i thought he was incompetent like how his friends thought him yk. So i dont think its really fair to blame rika or any of his friends either for the way they saw him, bcs will was also an active willing participant in these scenarios and his personality in front of them. His friends shouldnt be heavylifting his place in the family iykwim. They all should work together, not against each other (*cough* ofc they wouldnt understand shit like this in the earlier books *cough* lmaooo).

I also hate the fact that will is so babied by their friends and the dn fandom as if he wasnt one of the most white privileged guy in the town, terrorising people just bcs he was privileged enough to do so. Like this man be doing weirdest shit, recording them, and he be having EVERYTHING in this world BUT EMMY, yet people always wanna act like he was this poor victim just because in the monologue he kept on simping over em. There was really no ounce of responsibility and accountability in that man's thoughts. He kept on blaming EVERYONE (and himself to a certain extent) for all bad things happening to him, AS IF HE WASNT A WILLING PARTICIPANT HIMSELF. GOD!!!! GROW UP!!!!!!!!!!!! fuck im so mad, sorry 🤣 and the fandom, with their two misagonistic braincells ofc be siding with will and be excusing him, as if for the past three books, he wasnt busy being shit to women and men around him just bcs his monologue was about how much he loves em 🤢 like bffr!!! And they hate em too, and be simping over damon, just bcs 1. She was mean to will, 2. She never came back for will. You understand what i mean with double stanrds and purity culture applied to women here? They speak AS IF will spent his time since he left her in that hallway 1. Not being mean to her, 2. Finding ways to be by her side and not fucking around girls in town right 🤣 they be saying this as if he was the poorest man in the world, when emmy was the one living opposite life of him. Even after knowing some shady shit happened to her, he STILL EXPECTED HER TO BE ACCOMMODATING TO HIM! God, name a more selfish bastard than will grayson!! Oh yeah, damon torrance, lmfaooooo!

And the fact that the horsemen and alex couldnt understand that just bcs will was a nice friend to them, doesnt mean he was a nice guy to em?! Stupid as fuck!! God! Will was there for each one of his friend, but was he ever there for em? No! So ofc they were in his life, not em (Understandable tho that he left bcs em rejected him in a degrading way) And he regretted that shit! He regretted leaving her even if she made it clear he didnt owe her anything (unlike will who was entitled to her and essily blamed her because "love" and now he can put a label and resentment to her rejection). His regret was Even mentioned during the michael's bridegroom prep, with kai offering him alcohol.

And on this note, if em can understand that just bcs aydin wasnt as shitty to em as he was to alex, then why cant alex understand that it goes the same for will to em? Alex was a hypocrite for that. Will even obvious bcs he can fuck around town (alex too), but god forbid some other men looked like they were into em, oooohhhh shes the selfish bitch? Wow! Amazing! Im glad that em called out alex every time bcs she needed that after getting her ass fanned by the cowgirls every time. We're told that alex is this girls supporting girls, but she suddenly became early hideaway banks/ corrupt rika in blackchurch? The fuck? Jealousy really changes people! Its not even ems fault, it was on aydin, she just wanted to use em as a punching bag. Coward. Em never once did that to her even after everything will said about will alex. Fuck these guys honestly. Emory scott always deserve better.

Unpopular opinion, i like aydin in blackchurch. Em needed someone like aydin at that stage of life so that mfs like will alex dont cross her boundaries too much. Em can stand for herself but sometimes her personality can blindside her and let others treat her like dogshit just because she doesnt have much love for herself yet, and she prefrrd to avoid confrontation bcs of her ptsd with martin. Im glad aydin, even in his own selfish agenda against alex, took ems side and helped her many times there, even in his own twisted ways. Ngl, if damon saw will alex be treating em like this, he wouldnt let it slide either. He wouldve beat them up and told them off so 🤷‍♀️ the horsemen and alex's fans are not gonna like what i said, but i said what i said. Im well aware of emmy's flaws and ive accepted that shes not this mary sue character a while ago, but i cant stand this fandom who always act as if shes the top 3 worst characters among them just bcs she was busy dealing with life all on her own. Were the cowgirls annoying sometimes? Sure? Was alex sometimes? Sure. But i cannot imagine disliking the girls, even alex, more than the horsemen. Like even after the girls fucked up, they always made up. yea thats all for the addition. Thank you so much for listening! Sorry thats its so long

Pt 2

[away-ward]

might be an unpopular opinion

kill switch was the most boring book i have ever read. it took me nearly 4 weeks to finish and i went through with it only because i usually dont dnf but i was tempted to. winter was boring so was damon. the Damon we saw in the first two books was the not the Damon in kill switch. i didn't like him corrupt, tolerated him in hideaway because of his past but i HATED kill switch damon. he took himself too seriously. he was basically a 25 or smthg year old rich privileged prick who thought everyone feared him. but he was such a dummy. all that build-up in the first two books by the author for this guy. seriously he was all talk no action. they should have made someone else the villain in hideaway. the no of times i rolled my eyes during kill switch while he was interacting with erika was more than i did during corrupt and thats saying something because the MCs in corrupt were erika and michael. if anyone says you are more boring than erika and michael then you should just die in my opinion. and winter was just not it. her monologue was just bland and it is not because she is blind. she was like erika 2.0. "oh danger turns me on. i like sex but i am not a slut. i want to look down on the world. Damon is rude to me but that makes me feel alive... blah blah and blah". it was just a rinse and repeat of the first book, and that almost threesome was my snapping point. it is a pattern with Penelope's books. and they just want their favorite characters to be the center of attention everywhere. it happened with Tatum in Fall Away series and with Erika in Devil's Night. it should be noted that both are blonde-haired and blue-eyed females who crave adventure, are soft, nice to everybody and everybody wants them. and so is winter and guess what she falls under the above pattern too. and these characters get more screen time in other's books more than the MCs as well. the whole series revolves around them. the author is projecting so hard and they are not even trying to be discreet. honestly this series will be so much better if we get some time with the ACTUAL interesting characters instead of the author's favourite.

Ohhh a KS rant. It's been awhile.

unpopular opinion kill switch was the most boring book i have ever read.

Um. Maybe unpopular elsewhere, but I wouldn’t disagree. It might have been the hardest book for me to get through too. I didn’t like Kai in HA, but Banks didn’t annoy me as much as Winter. And Damon wasn’t as unhinged as I expected, so it was a bit of a slog to push through for me.

 He was basically a 25 or smthg year old rich privileged prick who thought everyone feared him. But he was such a dummy. All that build-up in the first two books by the author for this guy. Seriously he was all talk no action

Going off of this, I was thinking about the rescue scene in NF and how… unbelievable it is. Kind of like when a movie franchise starts off somewhat realistic and then somewhere along the way we end up with cars in space (looking at you, F&F)?

Corrupt shows up young adults using their wealth and influence to torment each other and NF ends with them breaking a friend out of a secret prison and taking over their city. I mean, it’s not totally egregious, but if they had been actual criminals who did actual heists and stuff in the past books, that level of competency would be a little more in line with the story. But maybe that’s just my unpopular opinion.

she was like erika 2.0. "oh danger turns me on. i like sex but i am not a slut. i want to look down on the world. Damon is rude to me but that makes me feel alive... blah blah and blah". it was just a rinse and repeat of the first book,

Yeah, I noticed that. The blondes are soft and nice, with a side of craving danger, and the brunettes are snarky and sarcastic with a side of trauma. It seems to be a character mold that PD likes the most.

honestly this series will be so much better if we get some time with the ACTUAL interesting characters instead of the author's favourite.

I agree. But I guess that’s what HC and fan content is for. For me, I respect canon to a certain point and try to use canon to build on and further my own ideas, but I don’t have to live and die by the author’s words. I don’t have to care about the author at all.

I guess we should just be happy PD hasn’t tried to pull an Ann Rice. I think that would be the final straw for me.

But as for KS being boring, I don’t think you’ll find it’s so unpopular in this corner of the fandom. You might have found your fandom friends here.

Thanks for the message! Take care until next time.

-KO

[stargirlie25]

DamonBanks x BellamyOctavia

if u have not read Devils night READ IT RN.

But if your fav characters are not at least Banks and Emory get out.

Watch the 100 too!

[away-ward]

After reading some of your fics about will and alex, just wanna drop some thoughts. I hope u dont mind, and dont need to feel pressured to reply or anything, i just wanna rant. Correct me if im wrong, but im pretty sure will only knew alex for about 3-4 years not 7-8 years, a few months after he went to prison, and he started to get close with her since hideaway ONLY BECAUSE 1. Em wasnt with him (so he needed a distraction), 2. Damon hurt him (so he lost a bestfriend, bcs he felt isolated by michael and kai), 3. Because alex went through similar things with aydin (they never thought em and aydin would want them). But even then, alex and will was never close like that, no. Because if they were close, then why wouldnt alex knew will's personality, passion, motive in life etc.? I guess their relationship is still shallow af. Like this woman got shot and abandoned in blackchurch by aydin, and will (the selfish bastard he was) still didnt gaf enough about his allegedly "new best friend" and only cared about emmy. So i guess these two people really fit each other in a way lmfao!

Damon and alex were always just tools for will to not face reality and not to be alone (even though this fandom really did love to overly romanticise, sexualise and fetishise willdamon's relationship possibly bcs its MxM unlike Rika and Alex who were FxF pairing). One thing to note though, i dont think alex and damon ever truly knew will bcs it always felt like will cared about them more but they only cared about using him to enable themselves? But will wasnt innocent andhe used them too so yeah. Will had been doing drugs and alcohol even random sex even before prison/ before damon hurt him right? So i also dont understand why the fandom likes to act as if damon's hurting him was the worst because every time he was at his lowest, it was shown it was always related to emmy. Sure, did the drowning made him feel sad? Yeah, but he only wanted to die because he thought no one, not even damon the tool he used to forget emmy was there by his side anymore. Then Damon always made up by trying to control will via sex, drugs or even alcohol, so their relationship was never healthy anyway. Idk, their relationship is always icky to me. But thats not the most icky thing about the dn series so idk 😂 willdamon fans are gonna come at me for this lmfao but idgaf!

On a separate note, i feel like the relationship between the horsemen or even will and alex was always a tad bit too shallow. Granted that they like the mystery behind not knowing everything about their friends and family, it's still unsatisying to me because there were many times problems could be solved by simple communication or understanding your friend's situation. Like!! Theyre friends and family with will but they never really knew shit about him because 1. Will never took it seriously, 2. They like to dismiss will even when he brought something to the table. Like how come damon and alex who was will's "bffs" didnt know shit about will's personality and why he was in blackchurch (bc)?? And emmy just figured out that they would need aydin as an ally after a week? Theyre so fucking dumb istg 😭☠️ dumb and annoying af! Like?? I cant stand them, they be on a whole ship in conclave but they still cant figure shit out, but from whaever tidbits that em got about bc since high school, she figured that its a good place for ally... god em's the smartest in this group for a reason. Her pride might blindside her sometimes, but shes really the smartest out of everyone, even above banks. Like banks was amazing and all, but she was RAISED that way, and she perfected it later on, but em had no one to teach her, yet she still stay on top. And thats on being a lone survivor with no one to care about you while having to be the one to care about others! I think it's also bcs emmy always watch things from a far and dont get insider information so its easier for her to not get too caught up with her heart and mind about inside info of the horsemen, until she became their fam too yk.

Also when em scolded alex for not telling alex aboutwill's disappearance and alex said about its not like em would care as if alex being by will's side ever did something good for him 😭☠️ like they were literally sex addict, drug & alcohol overdose partners! They both need help! They were only enabling each other because of reality that they never want to confront (surprise surprise just like emmy but emmy handled it differently) but then they turned around and judged em, like wtf??? I cant stand will alex sometimes ngl. Like even if alex cared so what? Will wouldve died from poisoning so her presence in his life would still be useless af, along with his friends. None of them cared enough until they couldnt deal with his shit anymore and he needed to grow up now. Like alex didnt even know he went missing and people ship them??? Taking care of will?? Listen to him??? Huh??? Did she? Maybe? But only on a shallow level because how come are yall friends but yall still dunno each other as well? To me, if alex was replaced with someone else, lets say rika, it still wouldnt make much difference. Thats how insignificat she was to will's story in his own narration. Bcs she, just like damon, at that moment was just a tool for will to not be alone since he loves being around people and the one prson that he wanted most wasnt beside him then.

Its also interesting how contrasting rika, banks, damon and emmy's pov of will alex's relationship are. Rika (the initially male pleaser and apologiser) thought that they were taking care of each other and holding onto each other. Banks (the initially stupid man and preppy woman hater) thought they were just casual friends who hooked up but friendly towards each other, damon (the initially over indulging man and woman hater) saw alex as a temporary distraction, and em saw them as enablers. None show any romantic intonation at all. Only rika saw their relationship as this holding onto each other when in reality, just like emmy said, they were enabling each other before one of them eventually injured badly first. I dont know what kind of care is that, but deffinitely not something will needed. Thats why even damon said that in conclave that will never needed alex. But its also intersting how contrasting rika and emmy's povs about willalex. rika saw it like that because of her naive shallow privileged world but emmy saw that because she never grew up privileged so she did not have as much opportunity to look at this kind of dynamic in a kinder manner. Like when she kinda blamed banks about kai's disappearance. Rika and alex kinda simikar that they thought love can save all and thats why their comversation can become too icky for me.

+Tbh, blackchurch was already weird with all those rapey assault drugged jokes, so on the basis that men can be scums, why cant women, so if aydin taylor will can be shit, why cant emmy?? And people always like to act as if the women always had to be good even when her circumstances shown otherwise. No one needs to be the bigger person here. If the men can destroy, let the women go ballistic too yk. Purity culture, misagony, sexism and double standards for women is truly something else in this fandom. Anyway, these days, emory scott haters been increasing, especially on tiktok, twitter and goodreads. I hope they burn in hell xoxo, hope u had a good day! Thank you for your willemmy fics <3

pt 1

[away-ward]

hey, thanks for the mbti discussions KO! It was fun talking to you about it. This might the last one from me about damon and kai though, because i cant lie, they really never interest me that much before, so for me to even put two and two together about their characters this week already got me feeling ☠️🙂‍↕️😵‍💫 however, unlike kai, it's kinda obvious in the way that i was pulling for straws to understand damon's arc, because ngl, even thinking about him then writing his name in the same discussion post with emmy made me feel nauseous, lmfao! (If you cant already tell, i really hate his character so much!!! 😭🤣)

But i agree with you in that i believe damon's characterisation suffered from PD wanting to do the most most mostest everything for him. Like Rika. Yeah no wonder idgaf about them. I hate it when authors just can't write characters with flaws and try to make characters be so complicated, only for us to watch them fail to do that by the end of the series. Like what was the point of all that toomfooleries? Damon and Rika look like clowns! I laughed when they said they wanted to build the world because they got no skills to execute that. Just because you got ideas doesn't mean you have the skills or talent to make them a reality. That's what Damon and Rika's characters felt like to me.

PD could just give their stories one or two trajectories and stick with that, but nooooo they just HAD to be and be in everything 🙄 At this point i'm trying to see the good in Damon's character or see any valid points to make him likeable TO ME but he always failed, because i feel like he was never gonna be enough, again FOR ME. Like Damon's character doesn't feel like he deserves all that happiness by the end of the series. His risk was not worth the pay, unlike Emory. I like villains, i like anti-heroes, but not the Wallmart versions like Damon Torrance. For example, i LOVE LOVE LOVEEEE Victor and Eli from Vicious. V.E. Schwab gave them clear trajectories and they never had to be everything or anyone else, never had to act like they're good or suddenly be everything like Damon was.

That's why Vicious' villain arcs are super interesting. Rin from the Poppy War by R.F Kuang had a really interesting hero-anti-hero-villain arc too, and she actually scare me sometimes with her craziness, hence why i really like her character. Pippa from a Good Girl's Guide to Murder had similar arc, and by the end of the trilogy made me feel like "damn, this is what dark romance could look like if authors have good writing, good plot, would want to deal with morally grey characters who have good reasons to be one, characterisation doesnt seem to come out of their asses but logical to the surroundings, wants and the nature of the MCs, and actually understand how romance can work even when there's no sex in their books, AT ALL". Dark romance today's just full of shocking sex/harems/orgies, absurd ass plot and "dark, broody, tall" characters. I truly believe that PD's bias towards Damon was what cheapened his arc and his potential.

Ugh sometimes i wish i am a damon torrance lover (or even bystander) so that i can relate to the majority of this fandom, but i can't choose who i like, and i definitely do not like him or his characterisation at all. Noo bcausee it's the way you counter my observation of him and even after some thinking, i really don't have any resoonse to that, because idgaf enough about him to think deeper, hahahahaha! Omg i realised today that i can be really bias with characters i hate, heh. Anywaym idk. I wish his fans, or rika and winter's fans are active on tumblr making discussion posts, because at least then maybe i can understand more of their fav characters?

Idk. These three, along with Michael are the shallowest characters in the series, and maybe that's why i don't like them? i would rather read about Micah and Rory's story than reread their books, tbh. Idk, their motives always felt so surfaced-level no matter how many times PD liked to write their conversations as "meaningful". I remember One ironic moment in Kill Switch when Damon was upset at Winter for having "a shallow heart" for not trusting him and i was like 😭🤣🤣🤣 broooooo, talking about a pot calling a kettle black. Like why was he looking down on Winter right now? She was the 16 year old blind girl who had to deal with the mess you started, not you! You deserved that jail time, not only for lying but for all the petty crimes in the phone too! OMFG! Like why do yall think yall soulmates for life? You both are dumb, AND SHALLOW! To a certain extend, You gotta attract what you are, and what you like most.

And Damon liked her enough that her shallowness didn't matter before, so why now? Winter too with Damon, she never expected him to be smart or good or with depth. She didn't even give a fuck if he was someone she didnt know when she was horny af. Like girl youre blind? And you dont have any allies at home or in town, why are you being YOUR best ally then? She literally just kept on believing lies left and right because she want to escape her life. Other than Damon, Dancing was the only thing that made her feel alive. So why was she even surprised taht he was sketch as hell? Winter is so fucking dumb! Like what? Not even until the end of KS had she ever acknowledged her own stupidity and fault in the trajectory of her own story. And I was again baffled when Damon was confused with Winter's arc, because when was she described as having depth? Even by him? Just pure and beautiful, untouched by anything ugly, the one who told him to use pain one at a time. Her character only exist to be a muse for Damon 🤣😭 and clearly winter never gaf enough about fucking her own sister's husband but why was she going around acting holier than thou all the time, and even in private, slut shaming girls left and right for fucking anyone? And not her shaming arion for her adventurous sex but continue to fuck damon and will at the ssame time? Winter's such a fucking dumb hypocrite.

and She sounds just like damon, only a very less ugly version of him! Like not damon slut shaming everyone and looking down on arion, when he was just as bad, if not worse than the girls he looked down on, but nobody called him a whore ass low life? Sometimes i wished in nightfall that emmy called him a slut and a motherfucker to see how he reacts because for all the hurtful things and pain he caused and said to his friends (especially the horsemen) and innocent people in this series, him betraying michael and working with his brother for no fucking reason than his stupid jealousy, i believe Damon's happy ending is not well-earned enough for me. I literally want someone to drown him in the sea like what he did to kai, will and rika, cause him all this turmoil and backstabbing like what he did to banks and michael, and torture and shame him in a chamber like what he did to rika and winter. When winter was angry at damon and spouting shit at him in KS, I was cheering for her, wishing she said more, because if that was me, i wouldve done and said worse.

Because TO ME, Damon really didn't deserve anything good in his life, not his sisters, not his wife, his bffs, his future. Shoudl've just died in a ditch somehwere. One thing that Damon and I are similar in that we both knew this was true. It's hard now for anyone to convince me that he does deserve them. Oh and also that scene in conclave with him and misha? What the fuck, misha didn't even do anything to him. Fuck Damon honestly. Suddenly be obsessed with rika? And for what? Ugh cringe as fuck! I can't believe winter wasn't suspicious of him having borderline polyamorous relationship with everyone, especially rika and will. (But winter has to only be close to him? 🙄) The high pain and disrespect from him to everyone, and him keep acting dumb and going around saying shit like "if theres anybody who knew how low life and hell life could be it was us" in KS, was not worth anything that he can offer them. But then i'm not them, and they're not me, clearly michael see enough value in him to want him on his team. Even emmy would pick him before the readers, so that's why i still don't see any reason to go so hard defending emmy. No characters in this series were ever painted as a righteous character, i don't trust any of them irl.

No matter how angry DamonWinter fans can be angry at me for this, this is just one point they can't deny. Winter is the most useless character in the series. Like how is her kid gone in fire night but we see more of other chars being distressed than herself? I can't with PD sometimes 😂 like at least they could try to not make it THAT obvious that they didn't care much about Winter's character. And just like how Damon only attracts what he is, it's also similar to how authors only know to write what they know, hence why not all "smart characters" are "smart", because some authors are just not smart enough to think of a plan for characters to show how their characters are capable of being smart without them shoving this shit in your face in their text explicitly all the time. Like how PD wanted to make Damon, Rika and Alex's characters capable of everything, but failed because when you lay them down with logic and timelines, they don't match up ☠️ like? Well, at least rika herself was aware of her flaws. But not PD, ofc. Like WTF? And just when we're about to see the real Alex, where her character has flaws too and not just strengths, PD glosses over them again when it's inconvenient for them to explain. PD really sucks at writing details and timelines, no matter how much they said they're a big planner. A big planner doesnt make a good planner.

idk how my initial MBTI discussion has become a Damon hate rant post but ugh i finally let out my unsatisfaction of how his character was written into the world. I too, love to read about villains, i too want to love an anti-hero, i too want to read soft characters like winter, but not when they're shallow as fuck, and until the end of fire night they did not change at all. Or even when they change, it's minimal. One thing that i agree with some of readswshelby's (from tiktok and youtube) take about about willemmy's story (unlike the rest of the couples) is for what it's worth with their shitty plot, you can see that from the start of the series and the start of the book to the end of the series and the end of the book, their characterisation and story changes from a to b. What does that mean? It means they have progressed, they have changed, and they have put work on themselves to change for the better. We dont always got to see them because PD didnt gaf enough to write about Willemmy more, but we knew willemmy had progressed. Which also leades to a differnt kind lf discussion.

Emmy started nightfall believing she cannot have the things she wants most and will started night with plans because he felt loss and alone but both still have understandble fears in building back their relationship and connecting with each other and with others around them, because they were nit ready and were always seen to be holding on to the past, but then one step forward, they decided how their story is gonna be like, and they ended nightfall with some of the most impactful closing scenes and lines from this series as a couple and individual, that summed up their past doubts and worries

"my life finally starts" because finally will executed what he wants by being beside emmy, even to bring down the gate to get to where she was, killing martin with his own hands, and was always seen running towards emmy despite what damon, aydin and alex kept on doing to him and his woman, he was fully ready now. Even to be a father and get back to academia. He was even ready to be there for his friends and family as compared to how he was scene in that hideaway extra. Just because emmy was there, will was tured of his past, and they wanted and will work forward together for their future. (Only damonwinter came close to this, but not the two other couples)

"i have everything i want, education, brothers, family, husband that i love, would love and fight for me", because emmy finally fought for the one thing she wanted the most, will, and she also had all the other things she wanted and need and are proud of like education, career, family, loving brothers etc., and she was finally ready to go on adventure with them now, and nothing else matters anymore, and not only this was true in nightfall, her character was also seen reassuring will's doubt in fire night about their life and their world, and her being part of the crew that handles the police report, then btpeating up ilya etc., solidifies not only willemmy's relationship in this series, but also her place in their family. We truly know now that even if we dont get bonuses of them, WillEmmy is thriving and nobody can touch that. Interesting how back then how at point a she was the one who kept on running around, and now, heakthier, at point b, she was the cornerstone that her husband, nephews, nieces, family and friends can rely only. This was what growth was supposed to look like in romance, which leads to the next point.

"we're free, nobody can stop us", and this is the truest thing ever because in the early stage of her fighting for Will, emmy finally initiated/ responds to the fight with anyone that tries to come in between her and will, be it her brother, aydin, alex, dmaon, michael and kai. Even her thought in the bridal room towards will's girl family members sounds provokinb of some sort, like how she was surprised they didnt say anything, which even if they did, she would definitely put them down for it. And then we see her in all the scenes after until FN, where her thoughts, beliefs and words match up with actions because not a single time she wasn't there for what she promised. Again, begins with point A and ends with point B. Her caharcter, and will had the most progress because they put in the work. (there were many more, but i dont feel like including them, but if you have anything to add KO, please do)

and this is why i think willemmy felt like the most balanced and full fleshed out characters. Because they have a worry of their own, and they have worres togetehr, but from point A where they couldn't sove it in the beginning, progress was done actively/passively then we got to point B the ending. idk if DN readers realised this, but this maybe why PD got so much criticisms for their MichaelRikaBanksKai content, because not only they fucked up with KaiBanks, they promise us now that they have no HEA for these two couples. And HEA is what the romance genre is mainly known for, especially by seasoned readers and writers. Writers, editors, readers, and even the industry knew that this is one of the biggest promise that consumers will get when they consume the romance genre. That's why readers got angry when couples dont have chemistry, or no promisin HEA. They felt cheated. Many famous authors have discussed this, and and many romance readers agreed to this rule, hence why the romance subreddit too, have a rule of "have to be HEA, if not, it's not romance" or redit users can put on a disclaimer on their book posts if they want to suggest non-HEA books.

You can look up to what make the romance genre a genre online, and also see all the many romance subreddit post about what makes romance a Romance to them. And this is what PD failed to deliver. But then i only found out later that PD actually labelled Corrupt as Dark Erotica (not Dark Romance) and PD had been known to not like to be boxed in strict labels, so maybe this was where one of the readers' misunderstanding, unsatisfaction and confusion of not getting enough romance in this series could come from? Idk, once i change my mindset of DN to dark erotica, i didn't feel like i was lied to as much, because erotica is very different from romance, and i dont have the same expectation of a romance book to an erotica. Erotica will have sex that progresses the story as compared to romance where the romantic tension was what build of the relationship. Maybe that's why DN felt out of place because it wasn't marketed right?

But i feel like THAT's also why labelling is so important in marketing and advertising especially for the romance genre, because the romance genre is so big, and it could literally change readers' opinions and understanding of the books they're reading, but PD is PD and their confusing vagueness was what started all of this 🙄 idk, but i feel like they're a messy person as in, they like to cause mess bu don't know how to clean that up, but then putting something in a box later felt too real and felt like they have to confront with what's expected from the box and the consequences of it, so the easiest way is for them to cop out and abandon that all, and just write what they want and leave the rest to everyone but PD themselves. Idk, but i think i associate PD's personality as being irresponsible and messy now, because clearly they cared enough about what readers thought of their works to the point the took a break from DN, but not enough to change i guess? No matter how i see it, i just cannot look past how they handle this. Like at all. And it's something to keep in mind when i come across other authors and how they respond to readers and their crafts.

wow, this was a long ass post KO. Hopefully you dont find them burdensome 😅 thanking you for taking your time to reading this and responding

This might the last one from me about damon and kai though

Heyy! Don't worry about it. I don’t think I have much new to say anyway.

Regarding your feelings on Damon, though, that’s totally understandable. Like everything in Corrupt, there was such good potential in him, but I think the more we shed light on him and the less mystery, the less interesting he becomes. That’s true about a lot of things though. Unfortunantely, I think it would even be true of Micah and Rory. You know PD would never just let them be a cute domestic couple forever if they were to expand on their story. The more you get to know about them, the less interesting they might become. Or worse, you might even come to be unsatisfied with them to the point where you hate it. Best to leave things be.

Some of the things you said got me thinking, and I’ve never mentioned this before because I kind of thought everyone thought the same way – like it was written in the subtext of the series, but maybe it wasn’t the same for everyone.

All of the characters are supposed to be soulmates, right? Platonic and otherwise.

Like, the way the story is written, they hear a unique call that nobody else hears and that’s why they are drawn together. They’re unable to resist the call, and the more they try to deny it, the more restless they become. When they finally admit that these are their people and this is who they’re supposed to be, they feel a sense of contentment and belonging. For Damon, it’s the basis of his obsession. These are his people, and they have to feel it, too. There’s no way they can’t feel it. It doesn’t matter what Winter is or isn’t; she’s meant to be his and for no rhyme or reasons, he’s not going to let her go. It doesn’t matter that he doesn’t get along with Kai most days. They’re drawn together because of this intangible thing and nothing can touch it or kill it. It's the same for all of them. Unlike Misha, who didn’t hear the call, and whom Damon eventually tolerates for Rika and Will’s sake. I just wish that it was touched on more from other character’s perspectives. I mean, I could be making this all up, but that was the impression I got.

For me, I think PD struggles the most with when to be over the top and when to bring it back down. Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy they have fun with their ideas and fully lean into them, but it’s a skill to know when to pull back. Like the example you mentioned, Damon’s comment about ruling the world. Because, like, why? What would he want to rule the world for? And how are they going to convince themselves they’re not criminals when they’re trying to “rule” the world? Whereas, it would have had a more significant impact if he said something like, “we’re going to run this city, Rika.” Even though the Thunder Bay is much smaller than the world, it really shows how they’re going to carve out a corner for themselves, take control, and be a real threat to anything that tries to cross into their territory. And while I know Damon was probably speaking figuratively, it’s just such a weird way to say it.

I don’t expect a realistic plot from content like this. I expect over the top nonsense from start to finish. But there’s a balance to it. And when things are imbalanced, we get a laughable, cliché mess of a story. Which is why even some dark romance (or erotica, if that’s what it’s better termed as in this case) are still better written than DN, even though the intent behind them was the same. Character arcs, too, seem to be a mixture of darts thrown at a spinning table and “ohh won’t this be fun?” Which can be fine for a first draft but really should be refined before release. The narrow window between KS and NF, and possibly listening too much to fans and not enough to their own creative instincts, are two things I think really impacted how poorly some of these things came across.

I doubt I’ll ever understand the extent DamonWinter love, or even the Winter love. And I also wish there were Rika and Winter blogs, because I’d love some good analysis and insight on them. I’m so open to other people’s opinions, even if I don’t agree, and I know that there are others in this fandom that are, too. I also know how hard it can be to take things that you think and feel, and put them into sentences that make sense! But I’d love some explanation on Winter from a fan that’s as completely obsessed as I am with Emory. It doesn’t have to be good, it doesn’t have to be well written, it doesn’t even have to be in line with what I think; I’m open to changing. But just something thoughtful.

And just when we're about to see the real Alex, where her character has flaws too and not just strengths, PD glosses over them again when it's inconvenient for them to explain.

Yes! I was telling a friend that hasn’t read DN that part of the problem with Alex is that the other characters are never allowed to be mad at her. Friends sometimes cause problems, they offend, things go off track. Alex is a controversial character, not because she’s an escort, but because she doesn’t care about opinions. But not caring about opinions and always doing exactly what you want often times causes problems, especially with people you’re close to. PD is really trying to tell us that for five years, Alex has never done anything that didn’t sit right with any one of these incredibly different characters? Michael and Kai fight over how to handle Rika every two seconds, but nobody cares that Alex is trying to distract the security guards from their duties, because she’s just so cute? Alex roofies Michael and potentially jeopardizes the entire rescue mission, but as long as she’s safe it’s all okay? She leaves Emory open and exposed to violent predators and a man who by all visible signs hates her, but Emory can’t be mad because it’s Alex.

All of these things would be interesting and great characterization, a good way to look into the dynamics of the group, if the other characters were allowed to deal with it, but I can’t think of a single time a character has chastised her other than Banks on one or two occasions. They can be mad at her and still be her friend; it’s not one or the other. It would even be interesting to see how Alex uses her ability to manipulate on a character like Michael or Kai when she’s done something that upsets them – but they’re never that upset with her. It’s weird and annoying.

As for your Willemmy analysis, I see everything you’re getting at. I think willemmy’s characters and storyline make more sense than Damonwinter and is packs a more emotional punch that Michaelrika. And Will annoys me less than Kai (sorry KaiBanks fans).

idk if DN readers realised this, but this maybe why PD got so much criticisms for their MichaelRikaBanksKai content, because not only they fucked up with KaiBanks, they promise us now that they have no HEA for these two couples.

I think most readers probably know what their issue is. I wonder if PD realizes that’s why there was an uproar. See, if a fan wrote something like that, other fans who are into those scenarios probably would have gobbled it up. But having it come from the creator, making it canon, ruins the impression that other fans who don’t want that have. Even if PD had just said “Yeah, sometimes I think about the four of them together.” That would be different than an entire scene where it becomes “official”. As a fan, they have the right to think of DN however they want, but as the creator, their words carry power and authority. I remember when that scene came out, they were thinking that people didn’t like Rika and Banks, but that honestly wasn’t the issue. I’m not a Rika fan, but I would have read a boring scene just to see what’s going on with her.

PD had been known to not like to be boxed in strict labels, so maybe this was where one of the readers' misunderstanding, unsatisfaction and confusion of not getting enough romance in this series could come from?

Yeah, I would say DN fits a little better when I don’t think of it as a romance, but as a story with a romantic storyline

but PD is PD and their confusing vagueness was what started all of this

The way you’re saying this makes PD sound like one of those ao3 writers that’s like “no tags, just read” like the tags aren’t there to be spoilers; they’re there for a reason. But I don’t know if PD was intentionally being vague because they didn’t want to give anything away or just thought the “dark romance” would be enough to cover the content. Maybe like you said, there was a misunderstanding on what makes it a romance, and of course, they wanted to be seen, and it has a romance storyline, so it’s not lying to put it in romance…

The confusion is unfortunate, but I wouldn’t rake anyone over the coals for it.

Hopefully you dont find them burdensome

I don’t find them burdensome at all! It just sometimes takes me a while to get to them. I mostly always respond on a desktop, because reading the longer ones on mobile is hard. That’s why it takes me so long to respond. Thanks for your patience though! And for sending in your thoughts. I enjoy the discussions.

KO