dragonardhill · 8 months ago
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Regarding Dean 12.11
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katsidhe · 4 years ago
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It's absolutely insidious how the show beat Sam down in order to keep the story going. He was our vehicle into this world, so unfortunately, for him to express any dissent against the show's world view is often considered blasphemous. It's been like this since the beginning with Sam's negative views on John's abuse and hunting. Sam is treated as a child for his views, by Dean and the show. Any attempts of separating from hunting is treated as evil, because he'd be leaving Dean. (part 1)
(Part2) The show set Dean up as catalyst to bring Sam back into the fold. Thusly, Dean becomes the POV that Sam has to come around to. This makes Dean the moral compass. If Sam objects to this, he's immoral. Dean likes hunting, Sam has to. Dean thinks Sam's gone too far, Sam has. Dean thinks Sam's a monster, Sam is. And Sam is antagonized for it. When Dean objects the status quo, Sam has to talk him back but the show is sympathetic to Dean. Dean reps spn's weird themes, and thus Sam has to too.
The role Sam plays in the center of SPN is a fascinating one, and a sticky one. He is cast as both an empathetic counterpoint to Dean’s machismo—the guy concerned about “good monsters” and grey areas, asking questions before shooting—and also as someone regrettably and pitiably out of touch with true moral righteousness as embodied by Dean’s hard-and-fast opinions on who’s evil and what’s a bad idea.
Sam represents the otherness of SPN. Which isn’t to say that Dean doesn’t also inhabit all kinds of moral grey areas, he most certainly does. But Dean’s modes of darkness are, at their core, much less about issues of choice, responsibility, and consequences than they are about Dean himself as a moral agent. Dean’s perspective and Dean’s car are the crutches of status quo that keep gas in SPN’s tank.
And yet. I would argue that SPN’s status quo is often relentlessly self-critical. Sometimes on purpose and sometimes on accident, and sometimes it’s difficult to tell which, but it’s so OFTEN doing things like invoking its own God-writer as a villain, and showing the ugly underbelly of Dean’s self-righteousness, and of hunting in general. And John, too, is a perfect encapsulation of the complicated relationship SPN has with the #Hunting premise. Sometimes he is venerated, and yet Dean spends seasons coming to the conclusion that John was obsessive and at best neglectful and perhaps should not have told him to kill Sam or save him. In fact, it’s Sam who’s ready in late seasons to offer blanket forgiveness where Dean has come to a more nuanced understanding of their childhood.
One thing interesting about the general community of hunting and hunters in SPN is that, for as much as the show often seems to enjoy pushing Hunting as a noble and venerable occupation, SO MANY other hunters we meet who aren’t regulars (and plenty that are) turn out to be some variety of psychopath. They’re usually willing to go to extreme lengths to kill someone of uncertain guilt, or are completely blinkered by their own vendettas—there’s a long list of MOTW episodes, especially in early seasons, where someone like Gordon Walker is an antagonist. The Campbells have their own weird cult of family thing going on, and then there’s the Men of Letters, who regularly practiced and practice genocide, brainwashing, and torture, as we were so thoughtfully reminded in 15.15. The BMoL were antagonists in s12. While the show seemed to be trying to cast their villainy in class terms, with the idea that these pencil-pushers just don’t have what it takes to be Real hunters, who are heroes with boots on the ground, yadda yadda--well, both Sam and Mary were in support of their general aims, torture aside. The only true reason for the final conflict is because of Mary’s needless brainwashing and the needless hit on all American hunters. And then Roy and Walt are literally part of the team of “good guys”. Lmao. It always makes me chuckle when any character brings up being a hunter as something exciting and noble. #JoinTheHunt, indeed.
That kinda got away from me a little, but my point is that SPN is very often textually at odds with its own premise, a premise which Dean embodies. It venerates hunting and tears it apart; it venerates Dean and tears him apart, as it did in 15.17. Threatening your brother at gunpoint when he’s trying to stop a kid from committing suicide is NOT a good look.
And SPN venerates free will and tears it apart. Dean is not a champion of choice by any stretch of the imagination. When Sam tries to make his own decisions, results are generally catastrophic. 
Blasphemy is such a perfect term to use here, especially for Sam, and especially in light of season 15. Because when Sam commits blasphemy against the pseudo-externally imposed moral judgement system that SPN abides by, the rules written by Chuck and the rules written by Dean, it’s… good? Bad? What does it mean to defy Dean as much as Chuck? What does it mean for Sam to live his full life gracefully and beyond their reach, and yet only able to accomplish this with Dean’s blessing and at his behest, with Dean’s shadow lingering over him? 
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themauvesoul · 4 years ago
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On rewatch bloody valentine is the perfect encapsulation of what spn is actually. You have this incredibly rich subtext about desire taking place in an episode where people are literally eating each other and cas eats raw meat off the floor. Dean and cas are standing like 6 inches away from one another and staring directly into each other’s eyes and it’s supposed to be a goof but the bit is overpowered by the extreme sexual tension. Sam does hot girl demon blood shit and everyone gets very aggressively hugged by a naked man. It ends on a horrifically depressing scene where dean stares up at the sky begging god (the father) for help, but receives nothing but silence.
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martyredlove · 4 years ago
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9 and 15?
answered 9 already!
15)   Favourite episode.
Mystery Spot was the first spn ep i ever watched, and probably my most rewatched as well! i think it’s a perfect blend of humor/feelings/plot and i can quote it by heart. oh this ties into question 9 a little but i think mystery spot encapsulates sam and dean’s relationship pretty well too..... one of my favorite parts is when sam starts slightly panicking in the diner that “dean something is going ON!” and dean immediately goes into big brother mode and steadily says “whatever it is, we’ll figure it out” even tho he doesn’t know what sam is even talking about!!! 
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mittensmorgul · 5 years ago
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I've been peeking in on twitter more often than usual over the last few days, partly because I spent the weekend working a con with Zerbe and didn't have time to spend scrolling tumblr, and partly in looking at the numerous Hot Bad Takes about Steve Yockey getting what appears to be a once in a lifetime sort of opportunity for a writer and leaving Supernatural before the series is finished, and partly because since the show is ending this year and there's so many campaigns to show our love to the cast and crew... but I haven't seen anyone start a campaign to show our love to the one group of people who've already been laboring away on s15 for more than a month already: THE BELOVED WRITERS WHO ARE CRAFTING OUR RUN TO THE FINISH LINE!
(presented with a focus on the writers who have a social media presence on twitter, who will actually see this...)
They've been hard at work since May preparing to bring us one final season of Team Free Will in their last stand against the Cosmic Drama that has been building up to this for the last 14 years. I'd really love to begin a concerted campaign to share our love for what they do, and not just in a generalized squee sort of way, but in the same way we offer thoughtful comments on fic. I feel bad because I spend all my time writing about the glory of the narrative structure of this show, the brilliance of Dabb's showrunning direction, the depth of Meredith Glynn's character study (especially of Dean, but honestly of all the characters, including Cas... remember 14.17? Cas has amply demonstrated just how much he understands the value of his human family, and is on the road to understanding what he might also mean to them). 
The care with wich Bobo has crafted some of the most painful leaps in emotional growth for the characters (hello, 14.18... you can watch a a microcosm of Dean's entire emotional journey over the course of the show encapsulated in that single episode). Master of the Fanfiction Gap-- and in partnership with Meredith-- the providers of possibly the most efficient and broad emotional layering through glimpses of the past in the current narrative... I know I'm not explaining this well, but, I SEE WHAT THEY DID THERE, with everything from the mixtape-- and not even the shippy implications of it, but using that singular moment to show us the breadth and depth of all the characters' relationships by reminding us of all the things we never actually see on screen, yet which still happen in the characters' "real lives." And holy HECK 14.18 was a master class in that, with the layered flashbacks to explore each character’s relationship with Mary.
One of my most-referred back to episodes of s14 has been 14.08, Byzantium, which honestly the meta implications of the title alone spurred some of the most interesting discussions I've had on the cosmology of the show's universe, and laid some solid groundwork for what I presume will be the direction the show takes in s15. SOULS DETERMINE THEIR OWN FATE! Our choices DO matter! And we have Meredith Glynn to thank for that.
This is the sort of excellent writing that makes these characters so real to us, that keeps us invested in the characters and the show. They DO feel like real people, with full lives in three dimensions, and our televisions are the portal to their universe that we're only gifted a tiny portion of in 42 minute chunks. And yet... we do feel like we understand so much of their lives that we DON'T see on screen, precisely because of this incredibly layered and subtle character study.
Which brings me to the newest writer on staff, Jeremy Adams. He gave us the glory that is Scoobynatural, under some incredibly tight constraints (given the limitations of how they were allowed to present the Scoobyverse within the Supernatural universe's rules), and I'm incredibly excited to see his more standard take on Sam, Dean, and Cas in a full-on episode of Supernatural. And honestly, we need more along the lines of The Killer Stuffed Dinosaur In Love. I think, if anything, Jeremy has a solid hold on who these characters are-- both the surface layer and the far deeper emotional layers-- as well as a fresh take on the show’s inherent sense of humor.
(and I mean COME ON in Dabb era, the era of the author of 8.08, we know there’s an element of brilliant Cartoon Logic to the narrative)
And we can't forget Davy Perez, who effectively provided us a guidebook on How To Watch This Show: Meta Edition with 14.04 Mint Condition, and then used this guide to break us all completely with 14.11 Damaged Goods. But also setting up a mirror confrontation for how Mary parents her boys in how she deals with Dean here, which will become painfully, horrifically twisted around in how she presents the exact same choice to Jack in 14.17/14.18. I'm wibbling just thinking about it, and honestly that's what good writing DOES. It grabs you by the feelers and does not let go.
And ALL of this has happened under Dabb's orchestration. All these other writers are effectively telling us HIS story. I don't think they're all getting the credit they deserve. Yes, I write rhapsodic about their episodes on tumblr, but they never see it. I think, heading into this final season, we all owe these people the praise and thanks they deserve to hear, and not just the usual Twitter Terrible Hot Take machine they're typically exposed to.
To that end, I've done a bit of research and made a contact who has promised to hand deliver our gratitude directly to these writers who need to hear it most. The cast is steeped in our gratitude at every con, and there's been multiple campaigns in fandom to thank the tireless crew who works on set every day to bring this show to us. But as a writer, I understand how thankless their job can feel. And I have an idea of what would absolutely mean the most to them: Direct messages of "I see what you did there."
I got a message to that effect on my fic Cakepocalypse! a few weeks ago, and I'm gonna share it here (without attribution, since I haven't asked the commenter for permission to share it), but it is the PERFECT example of the sort of thing I want to give the SPN writers:
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[transcript of the image: comment:  Ok, I'm re-reading this and I'm amazed to see that there are more hints as to what's really going on much sooner than I realized! You must have worked really hard structuring all this! Wow, the mind boggles.
my response:  HEEE! OMG THANK YOU THIS IS THE BEST. I, being a Nervous Author Type, was worried I would give it all away too soon, or that nobody would notice what I was doing and feel like the surprise comes out of nowhere, so this is literally the most satisfying possible comment you could've given and I appreciate you so much rn. Thank you :'D]
I can't even BEGIN to express how much this simple comment meant to me. I felt PERFECTLY SEEN. And I want to share that feeling with the writers who craft this show for us to enjoy, because all of them deserve to know that we care about the characters and their story and their eventual fate as much as they do.
So here's my proposal:
It doesn't have to be complex. You don't need to write them novels, but I think sharing the sort of specific love and appreciation for them that I've attempted to express above will go MILES toward energizing the writers as they move into the final season. Let's share with them how much this entire journey has meant to us. Let's let them know that WE SEE WHAT YOU'RE DOING THERE!
If you're comfortable going on twitter, by all means take your appreciation directly to the source. Here's a link to the thread I tweeted out to this effect for a reference if you'd like one:
https://twitter.com/MittensMorgul/status/1146137421345636352
(and because I think twitter cut my thread in half, here’s the rest: https://twitter.com/MittensMorgul/status/1146137437170626560)
If you're not on twitter (or are D: over sharing your love so openly for whatever reason), I will open my submissions here on tumblr. You can write a letter of appreciation which I will ensure (anonymously if you prefer) will reach the writers directly. I'll also be compiling a list of links to meta or other tumblr posts you feel the writers will appreciate reading, but I will only share them with explicit permission from the authors of said posts. So if you want to share your love that way, please submit links to the specific posts you'd like me to share with them and I’ll make sure they get them.
My tumblr experience has been a gleeful love letter to this show, but I know the writers aren't seeing any of it. If anyone deserves to feel our love (especially as writers ourselves-- meta, fic, etc.-- or even as appreciators of excellent writing), it's the people who have poured themselves into creating this show for us. Regardless of what we ship, or what our expectations might be going into s15, I think it's important for us to acknowledge them now, and let them know how important Supernatural has been to all of us.
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norahastuff · 6 years ago
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The Spn canon approved Dean Cas soundtrack (top five)
Youtube recommended a Destiel fan video to me yesterday, and I ended up losing about 2 hours while repeatedly saying ‘’just one more!’’. It got me to thinking about how the canon scenes didn’t need to be manipulated at all to fit the lyrics or show how romantic they were. Of course they don’t. The show itself has used music and montages to underline Cas and Dean’s relationship since season 7. 
They have done this using songs that fit them so well, that you can track the evolution of their relationship pretty accurately, using just the songs the show has used for them.
1. 7x17 : Turn into Earth, The Yardbirds 
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Otherwise known as that time the show created it’s own Destiel fanvideo. Cas returns to Dean, after presumably dying in a Leviathan explosion, only to return with a never again mentioned wife and without his memories, believing himself to be a healer named Emmanuelle. The scene where Cas smites the demons, and in the process recovers his memories, is one of my favourite scenes of the entire series, and part of that is down to the song choice. We don’t hear any of the lyrics, but the melody itself is pitch perfect. The Yardbirds were known for utilising mock Gregorian chant styles in their music and I think that is reflected here. Cas recovering his memories is given an almost religious like quality. And what are almost all Cas’ memories of? A certain broken hearted hunter who carried his trenchcoat around with him for months, hoping against hope that the angel would return to him. The lyrics do somewhat thematically fit, but since we don’t hear them, I see this one as significant mostly for highlighting the importance Dean has in Cas’ life and that they used music to do it effectively, added this as an important tool that could be used in the future in telling Dean and Cas’ story.
2. 8x17 : Goodbye stranger - Supertramp
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Here we come to Robbie Thompson, the king of the end of episode montage. The glorious 8x17, in which on his knees, Dean told Cas ‘’I need you’’, and broke his link with Naomi and heaven. Only for Cas to leave anyway, with the angel tablet.. The song that plays over the final moments, focusing first on Dean and then Cas alone on the bus.
‘’Goodbye stranger it's been nice, Hope you find your paradise.
Tried to see your point of view. Hope your dreams will all come true’’
Since purgatory, Dean has been trying so hard to keep Cas with him, yet at every turn Cas keeps leaving. He leaves at the portal, after their one hunter adventure in 8x08, after killing Samandriel and now again after Dean has laid himself, and his feelings, bare to Cas. I think it finally hits Dean that Cas is an angel. He doesn’t understand these human feelings, or at least doesn’t process them, in the same way that Dean does. It’s why he’s so resigned in the finale to Cas closing the gates and returning to heaven and doesn’t try to stop him. He has to say goodbye and ‘’let him find his paradise’’. He can’t be what Dean needs and wants him to be, or respond the right way to Dean’s feelings and declarations. Those are human things Cas would need to be human to understand and well...it’s almost like there’s a narrative playing out or something.
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3. 9x18:  The sun ain’t gonna shine anymore - Frankie Valli
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Ah fancy meeting you again here Robbie. I felt personally victimized by this episode. From Metatron looking into the camera and telling us to listen to the subtext, to Dean and Cas smiling like idiots in love down the phone at each other over minibar jokes that were not amusing to anybody but them (Sam is here too), to the final montage at the end. 
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‘’Loneliness is the coat you wear
A deep shade of blue is always there
The sun ain't gonna shine anymore
The moon ain't gonna rise in the sky
Tears are always clouding your eyes
When you're without love’’
Nope no subtext to be found there. Cas taking off his coat of loneliness, tied to his angelic identity, only to once again put it back on before meeting the angels. Cas’ decision to take in the other angels stolen grace, to give up his human life that he had found a quiet dignity in, was because duty always comes first. Getting the angels home, and fixing heaven is his responsibility. He still feels the responsibility to heaven that he did last season but things are different now. He’s been human, he knows how it feels to be sorry, to enjoy things and to love. He knows how it feels to want these things. And now, after finding the mark of Cain on Dean’s arm, he knows how it feels to be ‘’without love’’.
4. 10x05 - I’ll just wait here then 
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Oh boy this song. It so perfectly encapsulates Cas’ emotional arc in regards to Dean in season 10, it almost winds me. It’s so thematically on point.
‘’now you need some rest/ so I will do what’s best I’ll just wait here then/ That’s all I’ll do/ I’ll just wait here then/ I’ll wait for you’’.
It’s not like a couple of episodes ago Cas and Dean had an emotionally mature conversation, making it clear that there are no personal grievances between them, after which Cas told Dean to relax and take some time off. And it’s not like they stay relatively drama free for the rest of the season, only to settle into easy domestic patterns when they do meet. The Mark of Cain stalled any significant emotional progress from occurring in their relationship, and all Cas could really do is wait. I could drone on about how significant this song is for Cas for hours so I’m going to make myself stop and just say, fucking hell Robbie kill me now and have it over and done with already!
5. 13x05: It’s never too late - Steppenwolf
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Never mind Robbie, Yockey took up your mantle and finished me off.
This was the culmination of years of subtext. After the emptiness and the pain of their separation, there was no dialogue that could have done their reunion justice, not even ‘’Hello Dean’’. Instead the scene was presented in the classic Destiel language: wordless emotionally charged stares, with a rousing soundtrack saying everything these fuckers can’t/wont. At least not yet. But what does the song tell us:
‘’It's never too late to start all over again
To love the people you caused the pain
And help them learn your name
Oh, no, not too late
It's never too late to start all over again’’
and to hammer it in further:
‘’Tell me who's to say after all is done
And you're finally gone, you won't be back again
You can find a way to change today
You don't have to wait 'til then’’.
Come on! Seriously this song is straight up telling these two to stop dancing around each other. The way they’ve handled their relationship in the past isn’t going to work anymore. It’s not what either of them want. Their reunion is ‘’understated’’ as Jensen called it at the time, because both of them know what the stakes are now, especially Dean. They know what happens when they lose each other, how much this relationship means to them and they want to get it right. Since this was not the end of the story and they’re not going to get to live happy ever after, at least while the show is still running, Dean didn’t quite learn the lesson as well as he should have. There was growth for sure after Cas returned, but they still have a ways to go in regards to communication and just USING THEIR WORDS. Come on boys! I’m rooting for you.
From Cas showing the central role Dean plays in his priorities, to Dean recognising angel Cas couldn’t understand or perhaps reciprocate his feelings the way he needed him too. To a Cas that’s experienced being human realising that angelic life, and a life without love is not something he can be happy with. To Cas’ role being to wait for Dean while he figured his shit out and finally to them both starting to acknowledge that it’s not too late to change the way they’ve been doing things. The highs, the lows, you can get the cliffnotes version of their relationship by charting the music Spn chose to accompany these moments. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that these music choices started appearing in 7x17, the episode from which, at least in my opinion, the show started treating their relationship differently, before veering pretty heavily into the romantic tropes in season 8. Music has a language and power, that sometimes words can’t convey, and remind me - what was that gift that Dean once gave Cas?
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