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onewomancitadel · 4 years ago

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Best, if any smut-fic tropes that would work with knightfall, in your opinion? I gotta say, the possessiveness one you did was just great.

Also, look how adorable she is in this

gijdrogjdiogjdrioj yes this .gif I adore her, I love her, every .gif I see of her. Look at her happy smug little hair flick. Maiden princess material I love her

I feel really incriminated right now because I just finished writing a smutfic in the span of like 20 or 30 minutes and it's like 2,500 wordsish long and it's really bad I'm so sorry.

Thanks for enjoying my fic....... I appreciate it

I mean erotica is interesting because I like character study, and I like intimacy, so I like how it's expressed in smut, and it's generally the only sort of sexual content I'm into at all, because I like sensory response and that type of thing. So when I think of smut tropes, it's good shorthand, but also I would ordinarily tailor it to the ship. For instance I think the possessiveness works because Cinder wants Everything and I think by the same virtue Jaune wants to be wanted (and in an intimate, secret, individual way) so it's hgidgjdigjdi yummy, and you also get the 'Cinder wants everything' thing but like, Jaune is everything

anyway, I'll put the rest under a cut lol

and there are a few other things, because I think it could easily go the other way around, because I do sort of hold the attitude of give-and-take and not overly prescriptive rendering of a sexual relationship, but also because I think Cinder wants to be wanted equally and you know like... there is a little bit of fucked up history on everybody's side, and if he wanted her to stay... if somebody wanted to take her with him... yeah... I haven't written that one yet, well, posted that one.

I'm not at all into A/B/O so you won't see that one from me (sorry :( I do like SOME things embedded in the trope, but they're things I can read separately anyway), hmm what else, well the tag I would use is Lovemaking and Married Sex because that's my favourite. (: I need him to call her his wife during sex I'm so sorry :( this is so bad

oh yeah I sort of realised what may twig as different for me from everybody else: I think she pegs him. I'm not into femdom (I am into like, very gentle nonverbal elements push-and-pull stuff, but not explicit B/DSM personally - probably sort of borderline but also in terms of the characters, never verbalised stuff and generally I would never write a consistent 'scene' - I mean, I think Jaune's a bratty little you know what, but I wouldn't write a consistent, continued 'scene' for that... is that sort of clear? I always lean a little bit into the non-super concrete things, if that makes sense) and on that note I don't like the direct confluence of pegging with femdom, because it's inherently linked to the idea penetrative sex is submissive and all of that, and then also like, idk, well I won't get TOO into it, but the reason I am half-ambivalent about writing a pegging fic is because it's enmeshed in a lot of... cultural... well, ideas about how sex should be, and I can't imagine R/WBY fandom is exactly the best place for this, yes? And then also there are probably people on the femdom end of things who would be disappointed in me I don't lean that hard into it - I prefer playful eroticism, not like, Cinder beating Jaune and making him call her mistress, no offense, and ESPECIALLY true the other way around given her history of enslavement, which is squicky for me - and all of that. It's messy. But on the other other end of things, like, remove all of the cultural entrappings and I'm sorryy but pegging is really hot ghridgjdoigj just as a sex act itself gjidrgjdigji SORRY

So that's all enmeshed in all of my preferences, which is sort of - well I'd describe my taste in smut tropes is sort of like 'pulling back the veil' a little in the sense that, I like intimacy, I like playful eroticism, but I'm not really ever one to write something super hardcore, I'm not into A/B/O, and I'm also really into the idea Jaune wants to make her feel good (^: I just think sort of, in terms of the balance of the universe, she's been tortured to excess and I want her to be happy

and unfortunately I also want him to fuck her and call her his wife :( oh and I don’t think I can write a smutty fanfic without him eating her pussy, sorry? I’ve been told this is a recurring theme, but there are certain assumptions I make about the certain order of things to happen, and do you think he was not made for it sorry I mean it’s lovemaking, and um, am I the only one who really likes it

So that's sort of the way I like things. And I like sex scenes which are about intense intimacy.

I'm not really sure what else... I mean, I have this incredible, really cracky scenario where Jaune has a penis problem and he can't sleep with anybody because it's too big, because it's a play on people always wanting huge cocks, and he's having a horrible time and Cinder 'volunteers' for the job (she has been pining after him). I sort of meant it to be a comedic take on size kink, because it's actually... well... I don't mean to ruin everybody's fun with realism! I just thought it would be funny! Oh no Jaune your cock is too big I can help :( I promise I can take it :(

and I'll never post it because it's ridiculous and cracky, and there are also depressing elements of Cinder knowing he'll never love her (CRY!!!!!!!!) and then it got too messy and sort of unbelievable, but it did really amuse me to think about

Anyway, yeah... character-driven smut is my thing... and also like, in terms of MY personal relatonship with sex (I have to COVER MY FACE WHEN I SEE THE SCREENCAP OF HER STEPPING ON HIM IN V5, I am a blushing sweating maiden I can't handle this), it's also sort of new for me, I was really sick as a teenager and never went through 'oh this is what sex is?' and it's only been a few years since I got what 'sex' is lol, so figuring out what works and what doesn't is interesting. And also there were some other things enmeshed with it in there - like deep hatred and disgust with sex - so unworking that has been interesting. (Not sexual abuse or anything just to clarify). I think admittedly I read a lot of this personal numbness and abnegation of self into Cinder, though I do definitely think it’s textually consistent she is almost definitely not absolutely not sexually experienced. But that’s also why I like writing them having their first times together lol

Was this answer too long lol

Anyway, yes... there you go. That's my answer

Although adding a caveat because that's always necessary: this is my personal taste, I'm not knocking anybody else's - whatever sexual content you like in whatever form as is appropriate - I feel like I have to say that, in case people get upset. Also on the note of ‘is this appropriate for R/WBY fandom’, sometimes I’m like ‘is it appropriate to write smutty fanfic about R/WBY’, but then on the other hand I’m like, well it’s sort of weird how normal violence is but not sexual content which only adults are going to be accessing, idk, and I just think it’s odd how acceptable maiming and killing is but something that’s an expression of love and intimacy... isn’t. So I don’t feel terrible about it, and I would like to contribute something...... artistically positive. Lol

Both violence and sex can be deeply metaphorical too, which is why I don’t have an issue with violence! People clearly, to some degree, compartmentalise between fiction and IRL. The thing that sort of frustrates me is when we want to communicate something sexual, it’s done through violent movement, because that’s our intelligble film language. There’s a great YouTube video by wit_and_folly which I think gets at this. I sort of feel like that violence itself is also a replacement for an inability to cinematically communicate intimacy, or an inability to resolve hastening of plot, and that kind of thing... idk... idk where I’m going now, anyway.

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onewomancitadel · 4 years ago

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How do you think Pyrrha would react to potential knightfall? Or, to give a specific example, the events of Skimming Eye?

I don't care about Pyrrha.

That's callous, but she serviced the story as she needed and the characters and was the necessary moral lesson. So I don't factor her into the story other than what she's taught the other characters.

If I had to care about Pyrrha, because a wonderful user on Tumblr whose feedback I value asked me a fun question, well, in that case I would say that the person Jaune is now is the not the same as the person she knew, because the transformation he went through after her death changed him forever. And I think that she has to be prepared to accept that. By the same stroke, I think that whomever he would have become if she didn't die is another question, but I think it's sort of like... ugh I hate to rude about the Jaune/Pyrrha romance, especially as I'm willing to admit some of my interpretation departs from what I think is textual... that is, to me Jaune/Pyrrha is pretty much classic masculine wish fulfilment/anime trope stuff and I'm so glad it's handled as it is - and I also don't get the sense Pyrrha... knows... who... he is.. and what he's capable of. If she saw him angry like in V6 what do you think she would do? She likes that he treats her like she's a real person, and Jaune likes that Pyrrha treats him like a real person, but in some ways I think they would be unprepared to accept the worst things about each other because it disrupts the fantasy projection. That's why what Pyrrha does - kiss him, shove him in the tin can and leave him to scream and cry - is actually pretty cruel and it does not a romance make. It's devastating lol. Everybody is devastated by it. It's not fantastical and it's not pretty.

Needed a picture to break things up. Here's Jaune crying.

That's why I'm a horrible person and I like him with Cinder, because I love that theme of being loved in vulnerability and despite/because of badness. That's why I find Jaune's flaws so interesting - like, Pyrrha's reaction Jaune cheating into Beacon is just to coddle him and train him - sorry that's my personal bias, I hate that shit - and yes that belief in him is useful, but then like, idk, what happens when he's not that person anymore, or what happens when he's faced with a situation like killing Penny, do you think Pyrrha would give it to him straight? Then we sort of get into that situation where like hmmmmm I take some shit too seriously and this is off-topic now and me talking shit about Jaune/Pyrrha lolololol.

Sorry, yeah, I don't know. Pyrrha didn't know the Jaune whose Semblance worked like that. Pyrrha didn't know the Jaune who knew about Salem/Ozma, or like, the Jaune who knew that Cinder's part-Grimm. I think that it would hurt her insofar as like, she's missed out on all of this and - I don't know - you know that feeling of when you grow apart from friends, and you look at what they're doing online or bump into them somewhere and they're so different, they like this thing they said they never liked or they've got a new boyfriend, and there's almost a vague sense betrayal like - I wish I knew you, but I don't.

Maybe she would admire him, too. She probably would. I think that Pyrrha wouldn't be able to help him with Penny, and she wouldn't be able to handle non-ideal scenarios (Pyrrha is 100% idealism and dies for it) and would sugarcoat whatever she said about it. I think if she survived Beacon she would have lost her own identity as a Huntress, and I would've written a character arc foiling Yang's for her. RNJR would have still left together.

And... this is a really interesting question, and I love the asks you send and this isn't about you, this is about fandom, but it's just interesting how the spectre of Pyrrha is everywhere. Not in a good way - not in a way where like, people are able to reconcile she was a good character and she meant something - but like, would Pyrrha approve, does Jaune love Pyrrha, this or that... so on and so forth... and she's the Perfect Character and Best Girl forever which runs so counterintuitive to the message... to the point I wonder if they failed there with what they did, despite how obvious it is to me otherwise.

Maybe I conflict with that in particular because my favourite is the ostensible failure.

Also, I mean... isn't it so terribly bitter that Cinder's meant to be the best Fall Maiden, and Cinder has a romance with Jaune? Like True Love, save the world type stuff. That's mean. Pyrrha had to be jealous of Weiss and Cinder, lol. I can't imagine it would be good in that respect, even if Pyrrha would agree what Jaune does in the prologue is the right thing to do. I don't even know how Pyrrha would handle it, because there are five subsequent volumes without her, and... yeah, I mean, who would she be if she had lived and stuck around? Maybe she would be meaner and maybe she would be better and worked back up from her own 'failure' surviving Beacon - and I mean, maybe the Knightfall romance happened anyway, and Pyrrha's been dealing with Jaune being somebody else for VOLUMES after they had a separation post-Beacon. Would he get as angry as he did about Salem/Ozma in V6? Maybe? Would he care so much about Cinder if Cinder had not killed Pyrrha? But then what stops Pyrrha dying... I suppose Jaune being there. Maybe Cinder nearly killed him instead. That was what I had planned for a fic. So then is he fixated on her out of personal revenge? No, no... then how is the Haven sequence written, hm... very interesting. Very interesting. But yes. Pyrrha would know a different Jaune, anyway.

If Pyrrha's a ghost and onlooking this, I think she must achieve spiritual enlightenment to accept what's happened and pass on, but I'm not sure how the underworld works in R/WBY.

The reverse question of, ‘How does Jaune deal with the memory of Pyrrha in respect to Cinder,’ is obviously worth inquiry, which I’ve covered a little... but much of what I’ve said about change applies here too.

In summary: I am a bitch with bitch opinions forever.

Thank you for this ask, lareanzo. Had fun <3 <3 <3 hope you're having a fab evening.

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onewomancitadel · 3 years ago

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How do you come up with the names of your stories?

What made you choose the title for Skimming Eye?

Oh I looooove titles, they're my favourite stuff. I think I have posted before here about them when Sunset Hunting/redhoodhungergames asked but me can't find the post.

I always think a good title should sound good, above all. It should also be iconographic in some way, at least in my approach, so it should be suggestive of ideas contained in the story. Also, in terms of titling, it should sound like a title.

So, because my preference when it comes to both writing and titling is euphony, and to evoke a subconscious response, I find the process very joyful. But that's me. Also, when you say a thing enough it can lose meaning, so sounding good, again, is necessary for me.

Too long titles and overly verbose song lyrics are not my thing, and the bracketing is the most annoying thing in the world, and I also hate all lowercase titles. That's just my preference though. I want it to be recognisably a story title (even if it's song lyrics!) and I don't like when things are like other things when they should be like their own thing.

In terms of length, The Distance Which Fools the Skimming Eye is cutting it close, and it's also a song lyric from i want to be, the secret vinyl bonus track off Purity Ring's WOMB.

The effect here is twofold: it's a secret song, and it's also half the thematic sentence of the story, in a way. So it's iconographic, and due to it being a long story, you have to keep reading to find out the other half. Which also sort of keeps it 'original' to my fic, so I'm not just wholesale borrowing the idea contained in i want to be, but is transformative. And considering my fic is competely transformative of R/WBY property, that feels appropriate, plus they're my favourite music duo and muse.

Cinder completes the sentence is the effect I wanted. Because I love that theme of 'seeing and not just looking' and that's really their romance.

i want to be is also like so beautiful and makes me weep, I love the twinkling which sounds like something which puts you to sleep, I love dreaming and hidden things, and I love the sensation of longing, so it's all there.

But yeah, not to repeat myself but I had been working on the fic for a while and it was when I figured out the title (having discovered there was a secret vinyl track I didn't know about) hearing that song for the first time was when the fic truly blossomed. (:

I probably won't end up choosing a song lyric title again, though. In the case of the choosing here, it's because it was genuinely moving for me, whereas I otherwise shy away from that practice personally (though if we're speaking historically, poetry/art/music was always wrapped up and made in response to one another), because I personally, for myself, don't want it to be an arbitrary selection.

I understand that a lot of writers struggle with titles but the opposite is true for me, once I have a title, that means I know the themes, what I'm trying to achieve and where I'm going. So, my suggestion here is that if you struggle with titles, think about what you're interested in talking about!

The One Known by Many Names was chosen with the intentional reference to Hades (an epithet for him) in the Homeric Hymn to Demeter, who thieves Persephone. Also, because names and identity and so on and so forth, monsters and maidens.

Golden-faced, I have remarked once, was a borrowed Ancient Greek adjectival construction and misremembered Carson's Sappho. I like what it evokes in terms of the transcendental/merciful love in the story.

Wet Fire is oxymoronic, because of the twisting tension and absurdity in the story. Cinder is also merciful. I also mentioned in that post, I recall quite vividly, that Pale Fire must have been in my head.

An Ex-Villain's Guide to Flirting is the time when I get to be a little tongue-in-cheek, because my not-so-secret favourite thing is also jokey titles, depending on the feeling of the fic. Which is why Wet Fire also implies sexual arousal. :D

But yeah I love titles, I like simplistic ones that sound like fairytales as well.

Probably one of my favourites is The Wingspan of a Dream because it plays into all of my favourite, silly little girl fairytale imagery I love sooo much, and that was just one I came up with because dreams and butterflies and the soul. (:

Such a long answer, I'm SO sorry, hope you're doing well. I think I'm passionate on the topic because probably, statistically speaking, maybe around 80% of the time I see other writers bemoaning titles, so I sort of hoped to elaborate on why I love them.

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onewomancitadel · 3 years ago

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You've mentioned Rosegarden a few times, and I'm wondering something.

Now, you said in an earlier ask how Oscar and Ruby are both sort of children, and it would work once they were older. I think. This is just off of memory. But anyway,

Should the fact that Oz lives in Os's head - and will eventually take over - not ruin the ship? Especially since these two characters are younger? It's the deal-breaker for me, the fact that Oz is part of Oscar, but I'd like to get another perspective.

No it's a fair question, and not really one I talk about specifically, because Knightfall is my focus. I'm willing to take on board opinions from RG fans in particular (I know a mutual of mine whose RG opinions are similar to my own), since I'm sort of talking out of my comfort zone. With that being said, they fit into my reading of Salem/Ozma as a relationship being resolved in the present-day story, which is one of the reasons I think RG is being set up. I'm talking about canon, not my own wishes, though I do think RG mirrors some of what interests me about Knightfall, especially given that Knightfall is, essentially, Edgy Rosegarden. (Tongue in cheek, lol).

I'll add the caveat for people who get weird about RG because 'age gap':

if you've ever shipped literally any Ruby ship, why are you like this. I think story-wise they're the same age but like, Ruby is two years younger than Weiss. Nobody batted an eyelid at that ship. Oscar being younger than Ruby - when there's nothing textually really romantic between the characters yet, it's all mostly subtext and worry - is not a concern. If you want Ruby with somebody else or no one at all, you don't need to hide your argument under the guise of being concerned about not-real characters. On the Oz inside Oscar's head element: this is a mythical fairy tale about a young boy (in Oscar's story) becoming an adult. It's not real-life, and as you'll see at the end of this post, I don't think that Oz is sticking around, especially because his reincarnation has to end, and he has to achieve enlightenment.

But yes, I've mentioned that Ruby and Oscar (and Penny) are symbolically children for a lot longer than everybody else. Pyrrha was the death of childhood, but it's not until V6 when Ruby uses her silver eyes (with the matriarchal guidance from Maria and Jinn) and fully reconciles with all of that she really begins to grow up. It happens to Oscar around the same time (split off from Oz) and Penny obviously in V7. Arguably Penny and Oscar both have their 'growing' moments in the same sequence.

Textually, this is Oz returning, and textually, this is Penny becoming a Maiden. Subtextually, this is Oscar 'growing up', and this is Penny going from a girl to a woman, as I've written about before.

I'm willing to allow Oscar actually 'grows up' sooner than this, but it feels most prominent visually here.

Basically I think of the two appropriate pairings for Ruby, it was either Penny or Oscar. The latter works for other reasons, including that he's one of the Four Protagonist archetypes (with Ruby, Cinder and Jaune).

Anyway, one thing I want to bring up is that the person who conflates Oscar and Oz (and ignores Oscar) ends up being a major villain, that is, Ironwood. Not even Salem does this: when she's kidnapped Oscar, she... speaks to him oddly kindly, and understands Oz is 'keeping' things from him (the Beacon Relic). Obviously Salem knows Ozma 'better than anybody else', in a way, and she doesn't even personally blame Oscar for Oz?

And all of the heroes are interested in preserving Oscar for who he is. Qrow and Jaune are very naughty in V6 and hurt Oscar, and I'm not going to dismiss that; it's actually not a good thing, and then things turn around.

I think the Oscar and Oz endgame is hard to predict, because there are a few ways to mythically resolve it. It's made more complicated by the fact that the inherent issue of the story is that Ozma is alive when he isn't supposed to be, and so is Salem. (And... the original wound of the story is the technical absurdity of his death).

The Little Prince's ending is ambiguous (one of Oscar's chief influences), and he's alive and also dead at the same time, so I don't know if that will influence his ending in canon.

But if they go to even redeeming Salem in some way, and reconciling her with Ozma, I can't see Ozma going on without her either way. They die together, or they live together. The story is not going to end with them apart. Ozma can't be without Salem, and Ozma would keep Oscar from Ruby. Do you see where I'm going?

The new relationships in the show mythically resolve Salem/Ozma on their own, yes, but it's by their example that Salem and Ozma would learn. That Ruby and Oscar are both Salem- and Ozma-coded (but with shared elements) means they're really at the forefront of resolving it. Jaune and Cinder are the most literal Oz and Salem, lol.

So, what I'm saying is:

1. Bad mean, cynical, genre-inappropriate villain conflates Oscar and Oz = that means he's wrong

2. Ozma and Salem have to be back together in some way

3. Ozma would keep Ruby and Oscar from each other, and Oscar becoming a man on his own

so... Ozma doesn't get in the way of the ship at all, that is, in resolution he'll separate, and I don't think it's thematically proper to keep Salem and Ozma apart from one another in the ending, in whichever way that turns out. That could mean Oscar dies, but honestly, Ozma is already dealt with; I think it would be especially cruel to revisit that idea. It could also mean they sacrifice themselves so Oscar can live, who knows. It's anybody's game. The curse has to be broken somehow, though.

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onewomancitadel · 4 years ago

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Ok wow rude my phone sent the ask before I was finished. Anyway, I loved it.

You can't just SAY stuff like that, Jaune, omg.

I went into it not knowing what to expect, but after I saw this I realized where it would be going. Yknow, if I'd had found this story before I downloaded Tumblr and went on your blog, I'd probably be trying to guess at symbolism, but now my brain is going 'jaune and Cinder, and they're married, she's his wife, lots of sex, many babies' while nodding along with itself.

ALSO, I'm just saying, we DID need an opportunity for Jaune to call her his wife while they did the deed... and I'm just saying, Golden-Faced got a follow-up chapter...

Your first ask was:

That new story, wow. I wonder what could have *possibly* inspired it...

Yeah I wonder :( I didn't decide to execute an exact Indecisive King reprisal scene yet (that's a whole other big deal for the ship), because it's from another post which ended up being a smutty premise, and then it had too many feelings and I was like okay fuck this. Jaune get your romance on. There are too many visions of each other for this to end in pussy eating yet after she removes the sword :(

Thank you! Well, there IS symbolism, it's just secondary to them getting married. Oh and did you like the build up to Jaune revealing everything he saw to her??? >:)

'jaune and Cinder, and they're married, she's his wife, lots of sex, many babies'

me all day all the time :(

ALSO, I'm just saying, we DID need an opportunity for Jaune to call her his wife while they did the deed... and I'm just saying, Golden-Faced got a follow-up chapter...

Yeah but there is this author of a Knightfall longfic which is about to hit ten chapters are you reading it anyway in that story they act like pretend husband and wife do you think that one day he might do that for real

yeah who nose. I guess I better write a follow-up to Wet Fire.

Anyway, thank you for your feedback, comments/feedback sustain me. I have an endless stomach <3 <3 and if I am not paid enough attention I wilt like a flower

I'm glad you enjoyed it. <3 <3 <3 hope you're having a fab day and always lovely to hear from you.

#seraphina's asks #user: lareanzo #my silly little stories #viewer discretion warning #I had a .gif in originally but it ated up too much space #but just know it was really funny and amused one person (me)

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onewomancitadel · 4 years ago

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Imagine the following: the writers of RWBY come to their senses and realize that their show is sorely lacking one thing : some happiness for our boy Jaune. They think long and hard on how to procure some for him, and decide that the best way would be to get him a love interest that isn't six feet under, or a single mother. Scouring ao3, they eventually come across your fics and decide knightfall's as good a pairing as any. You're now tasked with writing the official RWBY Cindemption and Knightfall Arcs. How do you do it? In order to not just be asking for spoilers to Distance, it's probably best if you stick to canon mechanics for this one.

TL;DR: If you had to realize Cindemption and Knightfall within the context of canon RWBY, what would you do? In as much detail as you're willing or able to give.

So back in 2014 I wrote this RVB Felix/Locus fanfic before the Felix reveal (won't say spoilers, if you know you know) and there was a good moment or two after that where I was like, 'No way,' because of what I’d managed to predict, which also happened to be more than the big reveal. There was no possible way Miles had read my fanfic, but I was very delighted, let me put it that way.

This is an awesome question, I love it. I've sort of talked before about how I'd think they'd do it, but if it's ME, alright, and specifically not Skimming Eye. So the way I'd do it is I'd ask: what are the emergent narrative needs of their respective characters, how can you best realise them, and how can you best realise the themes of the show through their romance? Salem/Ozma, life and death, queens and widowers and towers, all of that.

So I would say that structurally you need them to be:

The last realised romance (Salem/Ozma is the first) which needs a LOT of build-up. If I were working on V9, I would already be beginning to play into the Joan of Arc allusions with hearing from saints. I would very much play up the surreal stuff of the Fallen Place. In this case, I think this can begin to humanise Cinder or at least challenge Jaune. She's his anima, he's her animus, they've got to be resolved together at some point.

They're basically Edgy Rose/garden, so whatever you intend to do with that romance you can do subversions or echoes of with Knightfall. I was actually musing today on that scene where Oscar re-introduces Emerald to Ruby, that's basically Jaune trying to introduce his friends to Cinder. XD (I mean in the sense of Ruby going for the scythe when she sees Emerald - that’s Jaune being like ‘no Cinder, they’re my friends’ lol).

For Cinder, based on her redemption arc projection, we already know the Jinn narration that 'many had tried to climb [Salem's] tower', so Cinder has had failed challenges to her character. Jaune has to be the successful one. I do think it's fitting that he's the first in the story (and also the one who asks why she is like this), but what specifically makes him different? I think what has to make him different is that what he wants, and what he wants to know, is unconditional. Every other person (Rhodes, Emerald, Raven, Penny, Watts) has had their own interest, to a degree. The point of why Jaune works is sort of specifically because he doesn't have any of that. So if I were writing Cinder at this point in the story, she is at her peak, he is at her lowest (just like V5 - his peak, her lowest), the way you challenge her is basically to show her that the mask she's put back on isn't working.

So you need somebody to see through that.

Like somebody who already chipped away at it, but didn't really hurt her when he did.

I think that for Jaune's lowest point and Cinder's highest point right now, setting up interaction in some way, even symbolic (like, will Cinder see him in the Fallen Place? she needs to be going about her business, I suppose) is sort of necessary. Though if I were being really playful with the story, I'd have her go to Vale for the Relic of Choice, and the Fallen Place bring them out of Patch with Raven at Tai's (yeah I read Raven saving them as a foregone conclusion, though I definitely don't think it's an underworld, her portals have too much visual similarity to not be a connection).

So, actually, I'd have them interacting in Vale, which is also fitting because it's where a true Pyrrha resolution would take place. I think that Cinder would be really, really resistant to somebody trying to get in, but Jaune, by this point, is reflecting on his moral actions and who he is. He's supposed to help people. So who is she? Why did her Grimm arm hurt her like that? Is he really the same person as he was when this story started? Not at all.

There's no reason that here is exactly where the romance fully realises itself. There's argument to be made that Vale still comes after Vacuo. Cinder could fail to find the Relic here, but there could be the reveal that Summer's a Grimm and has been station holding off the school. So Vale is still returned to later... or not. If I'm to write them all in Vacuo instead, you have Jaune return from the Fallen Place in still a VERY low place, and very confused about what he had seen. I think he should be very unsettled and Cinder should still be very proud, and then inversely as I would write him stronger I would write her more shaken, but in a good way. She may be upset, but ultimately it's a ship with the highest price and the highest boon. It's not just that her redemption arc is making her care about people, it's about making her feel again.

In terms of show foiling... well at this point I think Rose/garden is happening, I think there's more complicated stuff happening with Salem - I would begin to seed HINTS of more Salem sympathy actually - and I would also be wondering how I'm writing Nora's arc. Nora is more independent, and so, too, is Jaune, because of his interactions with Cinder in whatever form they take.

I do really lean hard into the allusions myself, and for Cinder to free herself from Salem she has to feel again and confront that same pain she did with Madame. I'm of half a mind about third-party Cinder, but I could see Cinder being in an anti-hero position, if only because she's so resentful of what he has made her feel (he is her necessary suffering the same she is his necessary suffering. She made his Semblance unlock with what she did, so, what does he do for her?

Really funny how we had that, 'fully realised Maiden' shown off with Fria right in front of Cinder. I'm just saying!!!!! I think that Cinder has to stop wanting the other Maiden powers and has to feel safe, and also has to embrace her Fall Maiden power. In this case, I would actually make it textually sort of explicit that Jaune's Semblance doesn't just amplify Aura, but it also sort of like, spiritually emboldens and strengthens somebody. It's a foregone conclusion he helps her with the arm, and is part of the reason Ruby's able to harness her own silver eyes - for the most noble of tasks).

I would take my time building it, but I mean, their V5 has such eroticism and tension to it, that would still be running throughout however I'd build their Vacuo/Vale interactions, and there has to be a 'I want you to join me' moment, but on Jaune's part. Unconditional, not about the conflict, not just about who she is as the Fall Maiden or Salem's Maiden vessel, like purely, sincerely, Jaune has come to know her in the same way she has come to know him. She feels now. The emphasis really with her character needs to be that time has begun to turn, she can feel again, it's not midnight anymore. It's dawn. Now you see why I really like his yellow and sunlight, hm.

(Notice the Grimm hand of Cinder's taking Salem's, and her hand is shaking after torture. Then contrast with the Indecisive King scene).

(On the note of his design: I'd give him the long pretty hair again. Sorry! Then of course as I've said, with her design, she would be silver/purple/blue, so she would get new outfits to reflect this transition to them matching each other).

All of the beats of the romance I'd hit would be the allusions as I've so thoroughly talked about. It's sort of mad how neatly it all slots in into R/WBY's story. It's not even hard. I'd tell the writers it's the easiest thing they could possibly do, it's already right there, and makes Cinder's redemption arc the most complicated and the sweetest. They love their foiling, so I'd also emphasise it's Edgy Rose/garden; they're sort of like BB, colour-wise, and given Jaune is a bit like Tai and Cinder's a bit like Raven for obvious reasons, they're a double-whammy of Reverse Salem/Ozma and Raven/Tai; it also hits a good trope of enemies-to-lovers, and they've covered a few good tropes now and it's time to hit the best one; what else, well, no one knows Cinder's backstory and if you want to introduce her perspective to other members of the cast, Jaune is the one to do with it. He's been there in front of her the whole time. So that's the funny thing, with Knightfall you get: Reverse Salem/Ozma (wound-healing); the Fall Maiden lesson in the Four Maidens; a reprisal of the Indecisive King; Rhodopis and Sappho's brother; you get everything else that is so cool about this ship and you give Jaune something very, very important to do in the story which realises the non-violent approach of V5 and his interaction with Cinder.

If I had to pick when the 'I want you to join me, and have lots of babies with me' moment would happen, with the most dramatic setpiece, it would be wherever the Relic of Choice is. I would really love it if, for instance, of all of the places where the Relic is hidden, it's somewhere plain like in the Indecisive King, or somewhere beautiful and green. Lots of living things, nothing unnatural, green beneath the feet, nothing manmade in sight, lots of flowering blossoms. I would really make the colours as much Knightfall as possible, like yellows, blues, purples, oranges, so it's not like the Haven Vault, maybe also try to pick flowers that only bloom in autumn. It should be very beautiful, and very tactile, and also sort of secret - like a meadow, perhaps. The way I'd frame it too is that it's one very quiet moment amidst a very dramatic volume (this would be maybe two volumes before the end, or even one - the last one is not about the Beacon Relic), and at this point they've already been falling in love for a few, and we know exactly why Cinder is here and exactly why Jaune is here, because we've been beaten over the head with the direction of their character arcs.

I would really give as much substance as possible to their earlier interactions, though. By this point Cinder is already purified and thoroughly rehumanised in the story, so she's got the full emotional context to make her decision, and really the only thing she wanted is to be asked. (Look at all of those scenes of people leaving her... and Rhodes leaving and letting her down. I don’t think Salem asked, by the way). She wanted somebody to ask her to go with them, because that's all she had wanted her whole life, and really the thing Jaune wanted the most is somebody who could still come back.

So you get the perfect answer to both of their characters, you get a believable Cindemption arc, something which appeals to her emotionally and makes her alive again, and then you have True Love's Kiss, because this a fairytale romance, come on!!!!!!!!!! That's why I think there's still a volume after this - so you get more romance development - and because Salem/Ozma is now healed, what next? I also want to see them holding hands and fighting together more, this is necessary. Oh, I would add in a team-up somewhere in Vacuo and then I would make it really really really hot and basically like sex.

Then there's the question of integrating of Cinder into the rest of the cast... I also think allowing time for that to happen is important, but the Fall Maiden joins last. That's all really interesting and it's possible to do through Jaune, and I think that, of course, Cinder is the best person to come back and fix things, make them stronger after they are broken. I mean, if you don't have Cinder with the goodies you are missing out on the most supreme, dramatic, amusing interactions. Living redemption arcs are so undercapitalised for these reasons. But now you've got all this FUN to have, even after you've established a great romance, so it's all you'd ever need lol.

Then what do you think the story ends with. A happy ending. Come on. Come onnnn. The whole point of the story is the technical absurdity of Ozma's death. I think that Salem and Ozma might get an inhuman solution to their inhuman states, so they can't get married again and have babies. But Cinder and Jaune still could. :D

Now all your themes are realised, you had awesome character arcs, you had great dramatic setpieces, great character interaction, something radical and new and different... what else? It's everything the show needs.

I hope this was an appropriate answer... obviously there are things I want to do in fic, but this was constrained in canon, and how long their slowburns tend to be. I hope it gave you something fun to think about. <3 <3 It certainly was for me!

#seraphina's asks #user: lareanzo #knightfall #long post #there is nothing more amusing than the idea that Jaune is the one tempting Cinder #and is the one who makes the 'I want you to join me' offer #I love that. I love it #it's so good

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onewomancitadel · 3 years ago

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So, now that you've separated our dear, star-crossed lovers. Are you thinking of keeping them apart for a chapter or more, build up tension and longing? Or will the separation be blessedly short? I'm not sure which I'd prefer to be honest.

And in regards to Jaune proving that Cinder isn't irredeemably evil, will he be taking a more proactive role?

Oh so that's the funny part... I think the separation is very necessary... I wanted to give them something they would miss and then tear it away. When I think about the balanced/unbalanced points in the story, Jaune and Cinder's little secret is a bit like the point where Salem and Ozma are married and have babies. It ends in a split anyway because neither confront the truth until it's too late. The difference to my mind here is that whatever Salem/Ozma got wrong, hopefully Jaune and Cinder get right.

But I actually wrote a version of Chapter 10 where they're together lol. They're not back-back together, but like, I mean, you put two and two together about their emotional states. He doesn't see her through the bond he actually manages to find her. But I decided to do Chapter 10 as-is because a) separation b) I don't think she's letting him near her at the moment lol.

The dialogue was very funny and cute lol. It was too funny and cute so it sort of didn't belong. It was almost more like Jaune's private fantasy lol

I can't comment on how long the separation will last (o: (o: (o: what do you think.....

On the lattermost note: that's a great question and I think is a broader question related to redemption arcs. Generally I think that redemption arcs involve an individual spiritual change. So if Cinder wants to do differently (and she herself feels a change) then it's coming from her. It's very hard. I don't know what Jaune could do other than whatever he's trying to do already... and I mean... who's ever believed in Cinder? (I don't think Emerald counts sorry).

We're nearing a point in the story I've thought about like... since I was first thinking about writing it, so that's exciting. Like in terms of the major beats I mapped out this was one of the bigger ones. So I think that contributes to my difficulty with working on it, I want it to be just right lol and I've been much more anxious posting chapters since like Chapter 7. Me scared lol. Of disappointing readers, that sort of thing.

Also I think there's a bit of fear on my end because of the two major ships I've been into outside of Knightfall, both of them hit this point of enemies-as-lovers separation and then... either didn't or have not yet seen a realisation of the relationship. It's a really elevated and exciting point of an ETL relationship which specifically caters to my tastes (enemies as lovers) and is specifically a thing I'm very interested in, but again: haven't seen it properly done (and not especially so in a mythic backdrop, that's the specific flavour). So I don't really have a model. Because most of the time it's like okay, the baddie loves you, they're good now (... speaking so broadly here, but ftr I don't have a problem with this type of ETL, I still eat it up). But it's more interesting to me when the baddie loves you but is still naughty, and coming around to being good is a little more complicated (but made possible through love/connection/compassion).

Thank you for humouring me. This is fun <3 and gets my gears going!!

#seraphina's asks #user: lareanzo #the distance which fools the skimming eye

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onewomancitadel · 4 years ago

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Also, lareanzo, not sure if you’ll see this but I can’t send you an ask or tag you, but you mentioned those other alternate universe-ish/canon divergent fics: did you happen to like those? Not trying to put you on the spot. XD XD (Blink twice if you don’t want to answer etc.).

I didn’t mention in the post, but it is obvious they’re all mostly oneshots, and I’m not sure how they compare to Skimming Eye. I kind of have one fic that will be around ~30,000 words once I get around to writing it, so it’ll actually be one of my first novella-length stories as opposed to this other bloody longfic. XD

I guess I wonder if oneshots are fun for readers? They’re fun for me. But yeah. Same context as reply I gave before, sometimes I think the length to realise an idea is just as impactful as the idea itself, and I think that’s where sometimes very alternate universe oneshots lose me.

#seraphina's replies #ish #user: lareanzo

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onewomancitadel · 3 years ago

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Was the aura-bond idea inspired by the one Reylo had? Or did you come up with it and only notice the similarities later? It's a cool way to tie into another one of your ships, especially since it's plausible in-universe.

It's reaaaaaaaaaally awkward getting an ask about Reylo when I have new followers, but let's rip off the bandaid anyway. (Don't worry Lar, you're wonderful).

If there's anybody who followed me today who doesn't like Reylo, I won't ask any questions if you decide to unfollow. There might be a post about it on here eventually anyway, I just don't really post about it anymore. I think it's only fair that you make sure to curate your fandom experience - that's also a standard policy on my blog, come and go as you please. (:

Anyway, that aside.

Well, it's not specific to Reylo and it sort of is. I love psychic bonds but generally the trope of enemies having to spend time together without hurting each other, and also ideas about transcendental contact beyond their respective stations.

Being that I'm a TFA Reylo (am I bragging? Is this bragging? Yes, I've decided it is), so before the Force bond became canon in TLJ, a lot of us were all already on board with the Force bond because of Ohtze's essay about it, and a few others - a very popular meta writer who wrote incredible stuff was harrassed until she deleted her blog so those posts are unfortunately gone. If you look at the date on Ohtze's post, you'll notice it was only a couple of weeks after TFA's release.

It was probably one of my favourite fandom experiences ever, being right about TLJ. Forget theory posts on Reddit, Reylo Tumblrinas already knew what they were doing.

Anyway, what I'm saying is, is that there was a canon precedent in SW canon for a Force bond - namely, the romantic connection of Revan and Bastila there that you can see - and we also know that probably the only concrete thing planned in the Sequel Trilogy, other than Lucas' initial concepts for it (like isolated, cynic recluse Luke), was Reylo. So, they had some idea where they were going with that, and also it's known that Rian Johnson is a fan of KOTOR, lol.

But there are also other ships I've shipped that have this sort of stuff, and I'm not trying to say I'm copying Reylo, but sort of that this is a general idea that interests me and it's why Reylo was so precious to me (one of many). With another ship I was into, there was the sense that they could see/interact with one another in their dreams - and even separated, caught glimpses of each other. Unfortunately, it's relatively rare... that is, enemies-to-lovers, or lovers-to-enemies, etc., which also happens to involve mystical, magical, transcendental forces...

which are also kind of slightly, not really slightly, but overtly, metaphorical for compassion. It's a very Campbellian idea (which is why it's appropriate to SW), because I think he was interested in the metaphysics of compassion and empathy - and in fiction you can literally realise that, in a way. But embedded within that are all of my favourite tropes about enemies-to-lovers.

Pic to break up the text, now I kind of want Boss Undercover Cinder Fall.

Because what interests me in particular isn't really hatred - though that is one of them - but moreso the idea that this is a type of contact/compassion that is BEYOND ANYTHING. Beyond who they are, who they're supposed to be, what they're supposed to do, whom they're supposed to love, where they think they should be going... this compassion and love defies all things, it carries all things, and it's the scariest/hardest thing and it's also the most immediately correct thing, it's the most powerful

These are really compelling themes, particularly once read in the context of a villainess who wants power to never be hurt again and a hero who thought he had it all figured out.

So all of the aforementioned can be represented by a psychic bond. How and where and why you do it will always look different. If you look at Alina and the Darkling's bond, it's not a good thing - because The Gris/ha Trilogy is textually confused, it is metaphorically messed up, but he comes to represent her lust for power. His bed is a cold comfort, their metaphysical contact is actually a bad thing. More reasons I don't like those books and I don't like that ship at all. (I can elaborate more, but basically the books are so textually confused and misuse a lot of their source materials, and I also find the books honestly sexist).

I hate Alina and the Darkling's example, but I just used that for the purposes of demonstrating it will always seem a bit different. Rey and Ben's, of course, is cinematic, and the kinds of ideas you can convey with that is different to text - for instance, when they're finally onscreen together, it's also when they finally physically touch and he's witnessed her deepest, darkest fears. That carries a different sense of poignancy.

Wait... this isn't Reylo.

Anyway, I loved Reylo in particular because of the bond and what it represented, and it's a real shame the third film never really capitalised on its potential beyond its use for... fighting?

But circling around to R/WBY: an Aura bond is already an idea in the show, it's the imprisonment Oscar experiences with Oz. In their case, that is a transition into adulthood for Oscar - it's thrust on him, like the hero's journey - and Oz's is a reincarnating curse post-divorce with his ex-wife.

So now you see where the Reverse Salem/Ozma stuff comes into play, because the differences between Oz's bond and Jaune/Cinder's bond are actually pretty significant, which you can see I do... attempt at going into.

1. They both chose it

2. It's a product of Jaune's Semblance (an expression of his soul) and Cinder's Dark Curse (all of her pain means something), not anything to do with the Brother gods. It's a moment of intense beauty amidst intense ugliness

3. They both... continue to choose it

4. Cinder (Salem analogue structurally) is the one bonded to Jaune (Oz analogue structurally), so it's not Ozma reincarnating forever with other, random people (who are 'like him'). It's a symbolic healing of their split and what they wrought on the world together

And I'm actually sort of stoked with how well it lined up. Reverse Salem/Ozma was part of the reason I first started shipping it, because I love poetic storytelling, I love stuff being healed, and it is FRANKLY INCREDIBLE to me I'd ever get anything remotely as good as Reylo ever again. Reylo ticks all of the boxes I'm completely and totally obsessed with, and then somehow Knightfall goes beyond that!?!?!!?!?!!??!!?!!? I mean, the distinction with Knightfall is that its canonicity is still arguably in the air, whereas Reylo was the true canon ship of ST, but I'm speaking just in terms of fandom experience.

So, I would say overall that I've always loved psychic bonds (I can think of a very early enemies-to-lovers ship that involved tangential stuff too, it's a pattern for me), I love what they represent metaphorically, I love all of the stuff you can do with it - seeing each other when they're vulnerable... funny hijinks, perhaps - and so yeah, Reylo inspired me, but it's textually grounded in R/WBY too, and even works for Reverse Salem/Ozma, not just in a metaphorical way. It's actually a 'thing' that where if Salem experiences Ozma's grief, and vice versa, they can come to know each other better and heal and confront the real conflict.

Also like, I think I've said it before, but I also wanted The Distance Which Fools the Skimming Eye to explore all the stuff I haven't seen necessarily explored in other psychically bonded enemies-to-lovers. The context of Knightfall really changes things too, compared to Reylo and my other ships, so that's a lot of fun. I also really just like that because R/WBY is so fairytale-grounded and emotionally earnest, it feels textually/canonically appropriate to really lean into the mystical elements, whereas I feel like with SW canon certain audiences are resolutely distinterested in Campbell (or Jung, as he's used in TLJ).

That's one of the many reasons I love writing it. I hope my answer isn't too long, but I did actually experience grief early on being like, 'Am I making Knightfall something it isn't?' or 'Am I just copying Reylo?' when I realised that no, it's actually very canonically appropriate, and it's something I was always interested in - pre-canon Reylo Force bond.

And idk, I make jokes to myself about Cinder and Jaune accidentally getting married in Vegas.

#seraphina's asks #user: lareanzo #the distance which fools the skimming eye #reylo #for blacklisting #though I don't really want it to come up in the main tag #I'll figure a tag out eventually #though unironically I love describing mystical/magical things in plain terms #like I do in only a semi-comic sense consider them married

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onewomancitadel · 3 years ago

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Re: the new chapter.

It was fantastic and I WILL be commenting, I just don't have enough time to dedicate right now (or rather, I have the time management skills of toddler).

Re: miscellaneous

I've now listened to the Camp Camp theme about 40 times because I love the fact that it's technically Jaune singing it.

I was also very guiltily watching rwby amv's like the shameless 2000's fanfic reader I am, and you know what I found? There's like, ONE single Knightfall amv, of unknown quality since I haven't yet seen it. And since you're the Designated Knightfall Person... guess who it falls to to Deliver us from hopelessness.

If you feel like it, that is XD, but I certainly couldn't do it and you are, as I've said, the #1 knightfall content creator.

Hope you're having a nice day:)

Re: the new chapter.

No worries about commenting, I appreciate the ones you've left on previous chapters. Thank you for reading. (: These past few chapters have been pretty hard for me to get through mentally, I mean I've enjoyed writing them but I get the sense they're not very good. At least next chapter might prove interesting. I hope everything is going well for you; if your time management skills are as good as a baby, then make sure you're getting those afternoon naps in. :D

Re: miscellaneous

Have you seen Red vs. Blue? I think I've mentioned to you I was a fan of it and that's how I got into R/WBY, but um. Jaune's voice actor (and writer for seasons 11-13, though he also wrote one episode in season 10 which at the time had me confused when he said he couldn't write romance, because it had the only and most romantic scene for that couple in the show) also voices another character in RVB and it's. Very funny. He has a lot of range, let me put it that way. (I actually really like Miles' voice acting lol).

EDIT: Lol and Cinder's letter X-ish shaped scar even reminded me way back when of Locus' visor, she matches with her boyfriend's voice actor's character in RVB. Incredible.

I like fanvids conceptually but there are very few I actually really like. I generally prefer the ones without lyrics, like instrumental scores. The ones I do like I go back and rewatch frequently though. I really love how fanvids themselves can be so convincing of an idea and string together different scenes, it's argumentative like an essay.

And since you're the Designated Knightfall Person

This is a very high honour, thank you.

guess who it falls to to Deliver us from hopelessness.

I have one plotted out in my head already. :( I would really like to get Skimming Eye done as soon as possible and on time according to my schedule so other stuff I want to do keeps falling to the wayside. The fanvid living in my head is really awesome though. I put together the music already.

The one thing I can't find is a source for downloading R/WBY episodes. I'd prefer to buy them so I actually want to OWN them and load them up in VLC media player etc.

It's such a pain in the arse always going to the website, for that matter I can't make a fanvid without actually having the episodes. I've surched in all of the requisite places.

I guess there are only the DVD versions? Is it blu-ray now? Sucks to be me without a disk drive. This is when I really want to get a desktop again.

and you are, as I've said, the #1 knightfall content creator.

An extremely high honour lol. There are lots of other talented fic authors and people into the pairing, I'm very sure. I'm just doing my thing. I've parked myself here and I'm not moving. I suppose also I really like R/WBY and I'm very much into the show, V8 was my favourite volume etc., so that influences my reading and my output/interest. But trust me I have absolutely no conceited ideas about myself, I know I'm a weirdo.

Thanks for your ask and hope you have a good night. (:

#seraphina's asks #user: lareanzo #the distance which fools the skimming eye

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