#why not blame luthen then no?

[andorerso]

if I see one more person blaming Cassian for Bix’s torture, I fear I’m gonna commit murder

let’s get one thing clear: it isn’t anybody’s fault but Dedra’s and the doctor’s. they’re the ones who tortured her and they’re the ones solely responsible here. nobody else.

keep Cassian’s name out of your mouth if you’re gonna talk shit

[jyndor]

Cassian saving Bix is not romantic or “selfless”, it’s something he did out of guilt because he knows he’s the reason why she was captured and tortured in the first place

someone can do something for many reasons anon. it was selfless first off, omfg the selfish thing to do would be to write her off. you can argue the romantic part of the analysis, but I think you'd be silly to discount that part of their dynamic, and I don't even ship them.

also cassian is not to blame for bix being tortured omfg what a cold ass take??? she was tortured because the empire connected her to cass and cass to luthen. but torture is not about what the person being tortured has done or what the people around them have done. it's about the cruelty of the torturers, and how little they actually care about the truth. torture doesn't work, it's just cruelty for the sake of cruelty.

I hope you didn't mean that because LOL wow.

[heyclickadee]

It’s not Saw’s fault. I know we’re upset, but hear me out:

Listen, I’m upset with Saw, too, but mostly because of how dismissive he was towards Hunter and Tech when they asked him to please not blow up the base so they could have a chance to find their brother. Saw taking out Tarkin and Hemlock would have been a good thing if it had worked! It’s just that the batch and Saw being there at the same time messed up both of their plans, and they have different goals. The batch is trying to survive and save their own without really disrupting the empire, while Saw really just wants to hit the empire where it hurts; them being there at the same time throws those goals into conflict and, ultimately, both lose. And, in a way, that conflict sheds light on the weak points of both philosophies.

Being focused solely on keeping your own people safe doesn’t make the galaxy itself a safe place for them, because the people who are making it dangerous will still be around making it more dangerous all the time, meaning that no one is ever really safe, not even the people you’re trying to protect. Doing the Luthen Rael thing and being focused solely on hitting the villains where it hurts and bringing them down by any means necessary guarantees that the villains aren’t the only people who are going to be hurt; it’s a satisfying and effective way to fight back, but it can hurt innocent people and tear innocent families apart.

So, yes, Saw did mess the Batch’s plans up and put some events into motion, but if we’re going to blame anyone for Tech falling, we should be blaming Tarkin. He’s the one who ordered air support to shoot the train car down knowing that it was going to get his own men killed, and that’s ultimately why Tech ended up dangling from that repel line.

Edit: I also wanted to add that Saw is also acting out of a place of trauma. I don’t agree with all of methods, but there’s a reason he is the way he is. That, and I’ve actually got a bit of a working theory (one of about five) that Saw and his crew maybe picked Tech up and/or caught him.

[paullapotteritsmynameipromise]

One amazing thing about Andor is the complexity of its characters. Contrary to some really bad takes I saw about the show it is pretty clear who are the good guys and who are the bad guys, but the thing is the good guys are not perfect, they are complex, they have flaws, they make mistakes. This is going to be long so bear with me... Cassian starts as the definition of a hotmess. He owes money too all his friends and he is so consumed by the guilt of leaving his sister behind that he risks everything in a desperate and useless atempt to find her that ends up being absolutely catastrophic for his entire community. He also doesn't believe in anything and puts himself first, only accepting the Aldhani mission when Luthen offers him a lot of money. He's not perfect. He creates a lot of trouble to a lot of his people and then just leaves. But there are nuances. We can't understand him and we can empathize. We see everything he has lost to the Empire already and we can understand why he believes this is a fight that can´t be won, so it makes sense to think that 'it is better to live'. We can understand why he is affraid. His whole arc is him realizing that there is not getting out and just living, that he's been part of this fight since he was six years old, whether he wants it or not. And that is really not fair. We also learn that he didn't leave his sister by choice, and we understand that even though it was not his fault, he still blames himself, and he because of that can't let go if there is even a tiniest possibility of finding her. No matter how risky. And then we have Maarva. Yes, she basicaly kidnaped Kassa and yes, she made a choice for him that he will have to carry for the rest of his life. But there was no time and it was that or leave him to die, so she saved his lives, she took him in, she loved him. And in the end she's his inspiration to believe in the cause and fight, the motivation behind his willingness to sacrifice everything in Rogue One. These complexities are beautiful and they allow us to care and root for characters that are not flawless heroes. And what makes it perfect for me is that it is not the same for Empire related characters. They are also complex, to the point that I can undersand how someone could root for Dedra in the beginning, but at somepoint the show makes it clear that their actions are choices that are not ok, that they have no justification. My favorite one is when Lt. Gorn says "Seven years serving you? I deserve worse than that (hanging)." Which brings us to Luthen's speech and I absolutely love it because it is so brutally honest. I love how it's clear that unlike Cassian he had a choice and that the biggest motivation for this choice was his ego, he wanted to be a hero. That doesn't change the fact that he did sacrifice everything. And although he is 'condemed to use the tools of (his) enemy to defeat them' it is not the same. Not that what he does is ok, but it is not the same as the Empire. The rebels are not as bad as the Empire. I love how well Andor shows us this, I love how it allows things to be complex and how it tells us that multiple things, even contradictory things, can be true at the same time. How it trusts us to understand this (even if not everybody did). And I love that it does that without relativazing facism. I LOVE this show.

[buckybarnesss]

Heather I now turn your attention to Andor, and a plot hole(?)

Why do you think Luthen and Co. were so obsessed with finding cassian when Bix should have been an obvious target? She literally spent more face time with Luthen and knew him better?

Also I've seen some differing opinions on whether or not Bix 'broke' during torture, because Dedra and the ISB still don't have an accurate visual of Luthen, he's still the 'buyer'

Thoughts? 🤔

now it has been a hot minute since i've watched andor but they were focused on cassian because of the whole starpath thing.

to me, it seems bix had mentioned cassian a few times to luthen as she passed items off to him and luthen was interested in cassian for his ability to apparently infiltrate imperial locations, steal their shit and leave without being caught.

luthen than conducted his research into cassian to learn all about him and saw a kindred spirit in a way. he saw a potential rebel. an asset. he was specifically thinking about the aldhani mission. he needed someone that would be willing to risk it all and with an axe to grind. all of which were things he saw in cassian just by reading about him and what bix had told him.

bix was never anything more than a go-between. that was her use.

i think bix broke and i don't blame her. what she endured was utterly horrific and it doesn't make her a bad or even a weak person to have been crushed under that.

she also likely really didn't really know anything useful as luthen and kelya made sure to cover their tracks. kelya had already cut off the radio before bix was caught so it was useless to them outside of being proof of unapproved and possibly rebel activity. luthen doesn't really fumble until cassian. what's bix gonna say that isn't generic?

besides torture is unreliable. a fact i'm sure the empire and dedra know. she just doesn't care because it was never about getting information out of bix. it was about power. it was about scaring the community. no matter what she tells herself or what she says. they all got off on hurting bix and displaying their power over her.

[thecleverqueer]

Random thoughts while watching the Book of Boba Fett Episode Four:

*I want a Boba Fett on the back of a Bantha action figure. He can be in his Tusken garbs or his Beskar. I don’t care. I want.

*Boba taking Fennec Shand into the mod parlor where all the weird kids on Tatooine hang out was a smart, yet interesting choice. I love the music that they’re jamming to in the mod parlor as well. These kids are so f*^%ing peculiar. It feels kinda like they’re getting tats except instead of ink, these kids are getting their eyes and spines removed and replaced with droid parts. I wonder if it pisses their parents off like tattoos do here. Do they have the same conversations, like, “Goddamnit! Replacing your arm with a mechanical one is permanent, Peter! You’re going to regret it when you get old!”? I wonder if becoming a cyborg is as equally addictive as getting ink. Maybe someone should ask Vader or Grievous (or, uh, Fennec, I guess).

*Boba knows Fennec, but Fennec doesn’t recognize Boba.

*I am trying to decide if Fennec Shand is gay or just a badass. I don’t think Dave can help himself. The vast majority of the women characters that he creates are lesbians somehow. If he doesn’t do it in purpose, it’s impressive.

*I don’t cook a lot, but having one of those chopping droids might be nice… you know, in the event I need an onion or a head of lettuce chopped up.

*EV-9D9 went from Jabba’s chief of cyborg relations in The Return of the Jedi to kitchen duty? Bummer.

*I don’t know why, but the LEP servant droids are the most problematic, obnoxious little rats in Star Wars. They are always getting the protagonists in some bullshit. I want one of those too.

*Good old Slave One… it used to be my favorite ship… then Luthen Rael’s ship rocked my world. Now Slave One is kinda bullshit in comparison.

*Fennec is a beast and her shotgun is ridiculous.

*It’s almost as if Boba has forgotten how to fly his own ship. Like, damn dude, you’ve been flying it since you were in Kindergarten. WTF!? You’re f*^%ing it up!

*Fennec says, “What in the hell are you doing!?” And now I can’t get over how far the tentacles of evangelicalism have spread, and I am bummed that is a concept in the galaxy far, far away.

*Boba takes out the biker gang without remorse, which is peak Boba. This is the Boba Fett we know… showing no mercy or quarter. Though, you’re actually looking for the Pykes. That’s the answer to your question. Weak ass bikers couldn’t take out a village of Tuskens. Listen to Fennec.

*I find it interesting that “somehow” Boba’s armor is returned to him by Din Djarin. This doesn’t happen in this episode, obviously… but him staring into the Sarlacc pit reminds me of how random and unlikely that is to happen even on this planet let alone in a galaxy the size of the Star Wars’ galaxy.

*Sarlacc tries to eat Slave One. Slave One shoots. Sarlacc don’t care. Sarlacc hungry.

*I don’t blame Black Krrsantan for filling with random rage then beating the ever-loving shit out of the Trandoshans. I honestly don’t. I mean, I’ve never liked them (since Bossk, but definitely since they kidnapped, then hunted Ahsoka)… but the fight in Bette’s casino bar is excessive and completely unnecessary. It’s gratuitous violence.

*Bette’s monologue is not convincing anyone. Aaaannnnnnddd, Trandoshan lost an arm.

*I have to hope that Boba slaughtered the Pykes to take over the spice trading for himself. It seems like a very criminal, yet Boba Fett thing to do.

[e-the-village-cryptid]

Lol stop blaming Cassian for everything that happens in her life. We never actually see any of her ‘risky decisions’ or her ‘selflessness’, we just see someone who was trying to make a life (and lots of money) in the rule of the Empire without giving up some privileges. That’s even mentioned she’s bidding money on Wobani Run (mind you, it’s an IMPERIAL PRISON). She’s the one who tells Timm about Cassian’s secret (being born in Kenari) when he told it in confidence. You can love a character and want better for them and I 100% agree she is reduced to a damsel in distress but the signs were clear since the beginning (just watch any of the actress’ interviews and count how many times she can talk about Bix without mentioning her ~bond~ to Cassian or how much she loves him and would do anything for him). Don’t get your hopes up for last season btw, they’re giving her some revenge arc (with Cassian’s help) so they can ~reconnect~ aka use her to give him some boring romantic trope and then she will be discarded to make him sad and traumatized and become a ruthless spy hero. How original and unpredictable lmao

It seems like we're coming at this from very similar angles, I don't know why your tone is so hostile. It sounds like we both feel like the tropes they're applying to her are sexist and disappointing and sacrificing her story to further a man's. I don't know what you mean by "stop blaming Cassian," assuming you're responding to my most recent post, I am not talking about in-world character choices here, I am talking about the writers' choices to make Bix into just a tool in Cassian's story. And I agree with you about what they did to her story— all I'm saying is that I wish they hadn't, lol. "Mechanic who deals on the black market to steal and sell imperial equipment to the Rebellion, at a moment when the Empire is tightening its grip and you can no longer be just a 'part-time rebel' with a normal stable life" was a character premise with promise. I wish they hadn't wasted it.

That... sucks about the way Adria Arjona is talking about Bix in interviews. I wonder whether it contributed to or is a product of the way she's portrayed— probably both.

(Also, if you do want to talk in-world, I'm not sure what you mean by "we never see any of her risky decisions or selfless choices"— her whole arc in the first three episodes consists of her being reluctantly persuaded to introduce Cassian to Luthen (at great risk and no benefit to herself) and then trying to handle the danger that arises from that choice, including (again, at great risk and no benefit to herself) trying to find Cassian before the soldiers do to warn him, which winds up with her getting arrested and injured. After that, we see her picking up the pieces in Ferrix and caring for Maarva in her ailing health, then tries to contact Cassian to tell him his mother is dying (at great risk and no benefit to herself). You don't have to like Bix and I agree she's not perfect, but there's no denying that she constantly makes selfless but godawfully risky decisions haha— it's kind of the core of her character.)

[andorerso]

Andor episode 7 thoughts:

they shook the empire so much, that's Cassian Andor's power

the poor Aldhani people though being suspected of aiding them 😔

I'm sorry but Luthen's right, it's time for action Mon, words will achieve nothing here

"people will suffer" people are already suffering babe 

KLEYA RED OUTFIT FINALLY!!!

CINTA!!! get off this planet queen

imperial Vel looks so different

oh my GOD THEY'RE SENDING HER TO KILL CASSIAN?? why did I not see this coming

FINALLY HE'S HERE! too much time without my man 

B2 immediately rushing to Cassian like a dog greeting their owner and Cassian petting him 😭😭 help my feelings

Maarva called him Cass!! some rights I guess

THIS OUTFIT ON MON

Mon/Tay? 👀 I'm looking

blame Cassian?? was it not Timm who called the corpos 

"your crazy boyfriend tries to get me killed and I'm the villain?" SAY IT CASS 

if the people of Ferrix would rather blame Cass than Timm then fuck the people of Ferrix 

OH MY GOD CLEM FLASHBACK

lmao people keep calling him Cass this episode and I'm living for it

young Cass had so much curls he’s so cute

"if there are heroes brave enough" she doesn't even know she just called him a hero 😭

"I won't have peace" no he really never will.....

don't yell at Bee!! let him speak 

"tell me you understand" "I don't" GOOD FOR YOU CASS

wait, were there really no survivors on Kenari? I believe Maarva believes it but I'd like to know if there's any evidence of that....

now he's all alone 😔

I know she's evil but Dedra's win was actually so satisfying to watch

adfghghjgg oh my god wait IS THIS THE SHOWER SCENE?

HE'S NOT SHOWERING BUT SHIRTLESS CASS!!

his name is Keef adfghghjgh please......

OH MY GOD A KX UNIT I WAS NOT PREPARED!! 

SIX YEARS? wow

overall not my favorite episode, there was some good stuff, but there was also stuff I didn't like about the last sequence

but I'm very excited to see what's next, I think the prison arc should be good!

[paullapotteritsmynameipromise]

I never liked the whole 'the Empire is back' plot of the new trilogy and the Palpatine thing is probably my least favorite plot twist in any piece of media I've ever watched. But after Andor this idea of the Empire just coming back is unexeptable. I cannot live with the fact that Cassian (and the others) sacrificed their life for nothing. And I understand that they are trying to fix that in Mandalorian, showing that the New Republic was flawed and that's why the Empire grew again, but for me they are just making it worse. Because everytime they show me the corrupt elite in Coruscant and the ineficient burrocracy of the New Republic they make the Rebelion a worse cause. It feels that in the end it was all for nothing and Star Wars should be about hope.

I'm not sure how I would fix it, but I think we should at least make it clear that the New Republic is a positive change and not just burrocrats that refuse to help people who did not plea loyalty to to them, give amnisty to nazi scientist and use torturing machines. Yes, they did not intend to use the torturing features, but why did it even have that capability? I think maybe the best course of action would be to blame capitalism. Show us the New Republic activily trying to change things and clashing with rich because of that. Show me the Coruscant Elite not just as clueless expectators that don't know any better, but as people who are actively trying to sabotage the New Republic and reestablish the Empire to mantain their privileges. That I could buy, it would show that the revolution they needed was the one Nemik wanted, not the one Mon and Luthen executed.