#yes it’s ultimately going to have byler endgame

[wheeler-things]

Man, I’m never going to write it properly because I don’t have the patience or time, but one day I’m going to talk about my Crazier Things roleswap au.

Where—

Joyce kicked Lonnie out much earlier, and, instead of getting work at Melvald’s, decides to angle for a better paying job at the police station. Nobody believes she can handle being an officer because she’s Joyce Byers and she’s tiny and lbr a woman, but through her ferocious tenacity when the safety of her boys is on the line plus a pathetically slim pool of applicants (and the fact that I am the god if this au and I want her and Hop to swap roles because I’m swapping all the mains), eventually she’s brought on in a trial capacity. She ends up sticking around when her skills as a detective become apparent (yes, she still faces sexism in the workplace on the daily, but she is legitimately good at her job).

Meanwhile, Sara died when she was 2 or 3, so Hop’s divorce happened earlier. El wasn’t an experiment in this au (though she does have latent powers), but through some situation, Hopper ended up with El being shoved in his direction when she was a toddler. He wasn’t really in a fit place to care for her, but (for whatever reason that I have not and will not figure out) he ends up adopting her anyway. He moves the two of them back to Hawkins, and picks up a job at Melvald’s, because it’s what’s available at the time. Because all the stress doesn’t actually help his substance abuse issues (and because I need a reason for other people to doubt his sanity/perception a la s1 Joyce being doubled), he still drinks too much, and he’s not in a very mentally healthy place at all, but he’s trying his best.

Mike Wheeler might only be a little kid, but there’s already something weird about him. Even as a baby, he gets chronic nosebleeds. The lights flicker when he’s upset. Sometimes, the tape suddenly skips to or repeats a song that he loves, despite nobody touching the tape deck. Ted doesn’t notice any of this as more than a strange coincidence. Karen does her best not to think about it, but she can’t help but worry about her son.

Mike and Will still meet on the swings when they’re 5, and within the day, they’re best friends. Within the week, they also meet El, and the three of them become best friends.

The summer after Kindergarten, Karen takes Mike to see a doctor because she’s worried that his chronic nosebleeds haven’t stopped. That’s how he ends up on Brenner’s radar. And just before the start of first grade, Mike Wheeler disappears without a trace.

Max moves to Hawkins that October, and she becomes El and Will’s friend pretty quickly (she also gets a front row seat to the slow progression of the two of them losing more and more hope that their third best friend— who Max never met but knows everything about because both talk about him constantly— is ever coming home).

Karen obviously fights to look for her son, and the searches go on for months, but they find nothing. With her money and connections, Karen actually gets the current police chief kicked out of the position, because she doesn’t believe he’s doing everything he can to find her son. That’s how Joyce takes on the role of Police Chief because she might be the best detective the station has, but she’s also a woman so the thought is that Karen will probably get HER fired as well which for totally unknown reasons is the most palatable option to a bunch of people with power over the station (//sighs in sexism). Joyce actually listens to Karen, though, and is as transparent as possible about the search, even though it’s very cold at this point, so despite being dissatisfied and upset, Karen at least believes Joyce is doing her best. And that’s how Joyce ends up police chief.

Mike’s disappearance puts added pressure on the Wheeler house, so Nancy ends up acting out more for attention which is how we get Nancy in Steve’s canon s1 role as the popular party girl (though she’s still Nancy— smart as a whip and ambitious as hell, it’s just hidden better). Meanwhile, Jonathan ends up in her canon nerd role (he’s studying hard for a full ride to NYU!) with Barb as his best friend. And Steve… well, Billy showed up earlier with Max, so he got to work putting Steve down long before Steve’s rep was secure, and Steve is now something of a loner. He’s still a jock, but he does solo stuff like track instead of team sports. The upside is that this means he and Robin (who mayyyy or may not be the cool anti-establishment teen running this universe’s Hellfire Club, when the canon era starts) became friends earlier.

Steve and Jonathan know each other loosely, and are assigned to do a project together (Jonathan’s a nerd who’s taking a class above his grade level and Steve had no friends in the class so they got paired up by default), so Steve goes over to Jonathan’s house and sees Will, El, and Max huddled over their first dnd manual. Somehow (Steve doesn’t remember exactly how, but he’s pretty sure El and Will’s twin puppy dog eyes had something to do with it), a simple “oh, dnd, huh?” comment turns into thirteen year old Steve agreeing that the kids can use his place as a quiet place to play (his parents are never around anyway), and maybe he’ll get his cool friend who knows how to play to stop by and help out if they need it, and telling Joyce that it’s fine he wouldn’t mind babysitting because, really, he’s really bored a lot of the time in his big, empty house. And from then on, Steve’s place is this version of the Party’s Wheeler Basement.

Lucas shows up in fourth grade, and joins the Party. Obviously this changes his dynamic with Max— they get a slower burn in this one (and I’m still undecided whether it would ultimately end with El/Lucas/Max or Dustin/El), but he gets accepted really readily.

So… on November 6, 1983, the Party bikes home from Steve’s place after a session, and El vanishes (which is Will’s actual worst nightmare because now BOTH of his Kindergarten best friends have vanished without a trace). This leads, ultimately, to Will, Max, and Lucas going looking for El in the woods the next night. They don’t find her, but they do find a very bewildered boy with black, shaved hair and dark eyes, with the number 014 tattooed on his wrist.

[pinksmonkey]

Posting my Ultimate Byler Evidence/Analysis List here directly because it probably makes it more convenient and I should have done this a while ago. XD

There is so much proof for Byler being endgame in S5 of Stranger Things. They are so cute together, and so much in the show has been building up to their relationship. I just wanted to share some of my favourite Byler analyses, because they are so cool, detailed, and in-depth. I love reading about all the hints, symbolism, and subtext for Byler, it's amazing how much thought must have been put into all these things. Why go through all the effort of adding these details if they aren't actually going anywhere with them? Mike is so queercoded, and they are truly in love with each other.

🫥 Just gonna leave some good Byler analyses here 🤐

Most of the links go to written Tumblr posts, and a couple of them are Reddit posts. So it's a lot of reading. If you prefer watching videos over reading, I highlighted my Byler YouTube playlist in green so it's easy to find.

And apologies for any of the links that aren't working, I know some of the posts have been deleted now sadly, but there's no way I'm re-numbering all these so I'm just leaving them in. My fellow Bylers, please stop deleting your amazing posts. ;-;

So anyway, here is the list of some of my favourite Byler evidence/analyses of all time (not in any particular order):

1. Mike's Season 4 Monologue To El

2. Camera Roll Byler Proof Part 3

3. Mike's Monologue and Milkvan

4. Mostly Byler Post Index

5. Dawson's Creek Parallel

6. "My Experience With Stranger Things"

7. What Ollie Learned From Film School

8. Byler Music Analysis

9. Why Don't The Duffers Discuss This?

10. ST Theories Masterpost

11. If Byler Isn't Endgame Then Someone Screwed Up

12. Byler Crumbs From The Cast and Crew

13. Favourite Combination of Endgame Byler Proof

14. I Doubt Byler Then I Remember This

15. The Fact That We Have This Interview

16. You Know Your Ship is Endgame When

17. Mostly Byler Post Index 2

18. Losing Hope Of Byler Endgame?

19. Why I Think Byler is Endgame

20. So Many Thoughts on This

21. Mike's Wall Art

22. Painting Miscommunication Leading to Mike's Monologue Coded

23. Yes, That Scene Did Foreshadow Mike's Monologue as Disingenuous

24. Mike's Monologue Didn't Sit Right With Me

25. Blue And Yellow Pen

26. That Tweet Is So Sweet

27. Heart Eyes, Literally

28. "My Process of Realizing Byler is Real"

29. Looking at Will, Not El

30. High School Musical Parallel

31. Said It Before and I'll Say It Again

32. Delusional Milkdud?

33. ST Writers Twitter Analysis 1

34. ST Writers Twitter Analysis 2

35. For When You Are Doubting Byler

36. Is Mike Bi or Gay?

37. Fully Convinced

38. The Ultimate Byler Playlist (my Byler YouTube playlist)

39. 100% Confident

40. Mike in S4 and S2

41. Mike Is Angry With Himself

42. It's Been A Year, Mike

43. Rink-O-Mania Remodel

44. The Development Of Will And Mike's Relationship

45. Mike's Lies

46. El Was Holding So Much In

47. Flickergate + Lettergate

48. Did Mike Ever Like El Romantically?

49. Mike Is Stupid

50. Byler Won't Write Itself

51. What's The Alternative Explanation?

52. Comparing Mileven and Byler

53. It Was Always About Them

54. Mike Is Not Ok

55. He Has A Love Interest

56. Will's Happy Ending

57. Trying To Be Normal

58. It's Not That Milevens Are Homophobic

59. Byler Is Reality

60. A Proper Look At El's Shrine To Mike

61. Mileven Through The Seasons

62. Suspicious

63. I Can't Doubt Byler

64. D&D Soulmates

65. Let's Talk Phones

66. Not Delusional

67. What Do They Want?

68. The Main Character

69. Mike's Mental Health

70. So Close

71. This Look Confirms Byler Isn't One Sided

72. Mileven Is Bones

73. They Don't Care About Mileven?

74. The Airport Hug Will Always Be Famous

75. The Monologue Mystery, Why Did They Lose?

76. The Cabin Scene

77. Why Couldn't Mike Say It For 2 Seasons?

78. He Was Trying To Find Will

79. Mike The Surfer Boy

80. Mike Definitely Shows Attraction To Girls

81. The Cast Knows

82. Mileven Loses On All Fronts

83. The Bouquet

84. 53 Minutes And 5 Seconds

85. Pink Panther

86. El And Choice

87. Will's Spotify Playlist

88. He'll Come Crawling Back To You, Begging For Forgiveness

89. Mike's Character Arc Prediction

90. It's The Same Look

91. Will's Truly Happy Ending

92. That's The Same Look, Right?

93. You're The Heart

94. Mike And El's Relationship In S4 Was Really Weird

95. Fireworks Parallel

96. Mileven Has Been Built Up For 4 Seasons

97. Not Stupid: The Fate of Mileven and Byler

98. This Suddenly Makes So Much Sense

99. Metaphors In Filmmaking

And unfortunately Tumblr will only let me add 100 links per post, so when I've posted part 2 of this list, I'll link it here: Part 2

[strangertheories]

Hello! I just wanted to say that I wholeheartedly agree that ships should not be someone’s sole reason to decide if they enjoyed a show or not, but for me the difference with byler is: The writers decided to use Will’s feelings to strengthen the main straight ship. If m*leven are endgame after that, it’s not about ships to me, it’s about the writing being outright homophobic. Now, if neither ships are endgame then I can let that slide because a queer boy’s feelings were not ultimately used as a tool to keep m*leven together.

Yup, I completely agree. There are many post Volume 2 rants from me about this, I think that it was quite hurtful that Will's feelings for Mike weren't use to progress his relationships but instead the heterosexual one. But I also think they're going to have to challenge that at some point. Mike is going to find out Will's painting was not commissioned by Eleven and that Eleven was not the one who could only keep fighting because of him. In my opinion, this is one of the biggest pieces of Byler 'proof' because it just feels logical that after finding out Will feels that about him and not Eleven that Mike and Eleven would break up; Will is what's holding them together and once Mike can accept that Will likes him and that it's mutual, they can get back together.

But if it was just for M*leven, beyond homophobia, it's just an odd writing decision to use this to push Mike and Eleven together because he only said I love you to her because of someone else's feelings. I think this will lead to an argument between Mike and El, not strengthening of their relationship, regardless of Byler canon. But yes, if it's as simple as it seems that's so so annoying and unfair because Will's feelings for Mike deserve to be a lot more than just a tool for Mike and Eleven to thrive together. Thanks for the ask (:

[byleranalysis]

As much as I would love to say they’ve had this planned since s1 yet using s2 as proof byler Is endgame to watch that interview and how they speak about perfecting the way mileven were reunited stop being a dense tool oh my film studies make me a genius nah you’re gonna look dumb asf in 2024

Hi there!

I am assuming you are referring to this post:

"I am most confident in analyzing S4 byler moments as I know they have Will's character arc tracked into S5. As much as I would love to say that they had this planned from S1, I believe they said such in order to stop the general audience from saying it came from nowhere. I believe it was hinted, but not in bold".

Yes, in my personal opinion, I believe that the Duffer's might have planned for Will to be gay from the beginning but ultimately, truly decided to go through with it in S3. However, it is very interesting to me that S2 had a lot of personal/emotional moments with Mike + Will. It's hard to see from where we are @ currently, whether they intended to foreshadow such or not.

I have been so used to LGBTQ+ storylines + representation being put off to the last minute that when I hear a show say they planned it since S1, I immediately get suspicious. Just like how I am suspicious that Vecna was planned from S1 as well. I truly do not believe he was. I think perhaps having a "big bad" was planned, but Vecna as we know him was not. Due to this, I take the same approach to byler. I think Will probably was always foreshadowed to be queer. However, his storyline with Mike was probably not.

Therefore, I feel most comfortable analyzing the cinematography in S4 as I know Will + Mike's relationship was planned to be whatever it is and continue into S5. It's confirmed that they spent a multitude of time on emotional scenes between the two (like the van scene which apparently took all day). So I feel like an analysis on the cinematography is completely rational. I don't like to speak about the filming if I don't have confidence that I truly understand what they were going for. I don't have confidence that byler was planned since S1 so I will most likely never analyze it. Simple.

However, I still believe Will was foreshadowed to be LGBTQ+ since S1 so, yes, sometimes I will pull from previous seasons if a line or description of a character gives insight into the characters now. I think S4 makes multiple references back to previous seasons. Those references to previous seasons are now modified and implied differently due to current seasons portrayals. A show is a constantly growing beast of character and plot development, things change/gain more subtext as you gain more and more insight into the characters.

I am also hoping that maybe, maybe, maybe, the Duffers did have this planned since Season 1. As someone concerned with the representation of LGBTQ+ characters in film & tv, saying such almost makes me want to cry. Most mainstream televisions shows do not show such care to their LGBTQ+ characters. If Stranger Things really did have this planned since S1, I don't know how I would act if I had incredibly explicit confirmation on such. So yeah, sometimes I do post a little snippet of S1 or S2 because maybe, just maybe, the show runners actually cared to provide a thought-out narrative to a queer character.

(Also, that reunion scene in season 2 was so cute. I actually really enjoy Mlvn in S1 + S2. There is a reason I truly believe byler was foreshadowed in S3).

Also, I don't think I am a genius for my studies or anything. I just have first-hand experience working on sets... so, I kinda have at least a basic understanding of how everything works behind-the-scenes... So yeah, I try and analyze things from that point-of-view purely because I feel confident in such. What would you like me to do? Not use my degree or my experience to provide any insight into the show? Just delete my memories so that I can have whatever opinion you seem fit. I never imply that I am the only correct answer and everybody else is wrong. If I do, call me out. Film can have multiple interpretations and such needs to be respected. However, I will defend/provide an answer via my own interpretation if someone actively asks me something or (in your case) insults me.

Here's to 2024! 🎉✨

[prfctmxxnlight]

let’s talk about

the snow ball

how it foreshadows byler and how it explains mike’s sudden change in behavior in the next season(s)

gonna start this by saying that (allegedly) there are no coincidences in this show, everything means something, and a big thing the writers like to do is parallel scenes and foreshadow situations with others, this is how i interpreted this characters and scenes so you are free to disagree

if something has a parallel, it is similar to something else, but exists or happens in a different place or at a different time, and it could happen between different people

i think that when people think of the snow ball their mind immediately goes to mileven and lumax, so you might be wondering how in the hell would that ever contribute to the idea of byler being endgame? you just have to pay attention to the love triangle between max, lucas and dustin

we start this whole thing with lucas asking max to dance and her agreeing, dustin being visibly upset

while all this unfolds, this random girl that no one knows and has no relevance to will in the future, asks him to dance

will reluctantly says yes, after being pressured to by mike (which he later seems to regret) and we get this shot

as viewers, we’re supposed to be focusing on dustin. this whole scene is supposed to be about him “not getting the girl”, it’s supposed to make us feel bad because he is sad, and it’s showing us that ultimately max chose lucas

but we are also supposed to “read in between the lines”, yes, this scene is about dustin and how devastated he feels max likes lucas and not him, but it’s subtly showing us the same for mike and will

the way mike is looking at will and this mystery girl is the same way dustin is looking at max and lucas, with sadness, and we overlook this because that’s how the directors and writers intended us to. we are supposed to be focusing on dustin, the audience isn’t supposed to realize that there is something else going on between mike and will, this is just buildup, subtle buildup

something i’d like to add to solidify how mike and will are a parallel to max and lucas’s relationship, is the fact that they share quite a few (romantic on the lumax side but seen as platonic on the byler side) parallels between each other, im not gonna get into it rn, but these are just a few examples

going back to the dance, we see the two couples paired together: max and lucas and will and rando, we know by now that max and lucas are endgame, there is no denying that

here’s the thing, this scene is supposed to represent that dustin’s romantic relationship/feelings for max are going nowhere, it’s supposed to show us that while he did have a crush on her, there isn’t any hope for them anymore (we solidify this thought because dustin gets a girlfriend the next season and max and lucas, although they break up by season 4, are still in love and still going strong)

obviously both lucas’s and dustin’s feelings for max are very obvious, because they want the general public to know what’s going on, there really isn’t any buildup for a future dustin and max relationship, or for a “will max and lucas end up together?” storyline, because the intention was to show the audience that they will

so again, how would this foreshadow byler?

think of it this way: max and lucas represent mike and will, so if mike and will often parallel max and lucas, this was a way showing us that lumax being endgame, means byler will be as well, really the love triangle between max lucas and dustin represents the one between mike, will and el

in this scene mike is being paralleled to dustin, showing us that while he wanted more than a friendship, that’s all he’s ever gonna get

the thing is tho, will isn’t dancing with anyone relevant, not someone who will come back and want to date him and not someone he has feelings for, if putting mike and dustin in the same position meant that it was the end of whatever romantic relationship could’ve been between them and their crush, they would’ve paired will with someone he actually likes

or

they would’ve switched mike and will’s places

they would’ve shown us mike asking eleven to dance in front of will, and will being the one that’s upset

in the oficial script of season 2 we see this

this doesn’t actually happen tho, instead we get mike pining over will, which i think is a clever way to subtly show that he had feelings for him from early on as well, feelings he wasn’t aware of. because while he probably did have a crush on el, he also had a crush on will. only his feelings for will had been there for a long time being mistaken as friendship, something he came to realize until that night at the snow ball

after convincing will of dancing with the girl, there is immediate regret in mikes face, (as previously stated) i think mike going for the kiss with eleven was his way of trying to see if he really has something other than platonic feelings for will, or if it was nothing (this is also the last time we get cute and wholesome mileven, right after this it’s mostly mike and el constantly fighting and having an unhealthy relationship)

i think this is the moment michael wheeler realizes his feelings for his best friend hence why we get this scene in season 3

and why right after season two, mike starts acting different

[shreya11111]

Shows are not meant to be analyzed deeply and picked apart from every angle with every micro expression studied for some hidden meaning, that’s the tumblrification of media and ultimately bad media literacy. If the audience can’t figure out something just by following along and watching a show’s twist and turns, then it’s bad writing. So I’m sorry to say that Byler can’t happen because it would be fanservice for the very online and the toxic gay nerds who think they know better than the rest of us just because some (usually creepy) “media scholar” tells them the color of Mike’s pants actually means Byler will happen on the summer solstice if you look close. Mike and El are obviously endgame because that’s the story the show is plainly telling 🤷‍♀️

media literacy is…

according to https://www.medialit.org/reading-room/what-media-literacy-definitionand-more

what we bylers do when we analyze stranger things as a show isn’t something new. a lot of us have been part of fandoms where this has been done several times, or we just naturally do it as a part of our media consumption. it isn’t just restricted to tumblr, so idk where you’re getting that from. @naturallybrielle literally has a tiktok account where she makes analysis videos so…

there are also accounts like @causeineedu and @/girlskth that make analysis videos on tiktok on this topic.

how is it bad media literacy to a) do exactly what the definition of media literacy is and b) analyze a show that is clearly meant to be analyzed?

and before you come saying that “it’s not that deep” or that “the duffers wouldn’t put this much effort into the details” i would like to direct you to this tweet:

the duffers themselves have said many times before that they put care into the details of this show. so why are we so wrong to analyze? they clearly want us to.

the fact that noah schnapp confirmed that they’ve been building up will’s feelings for mike since SEASON 1 should tell you this much.

besides, a lot of the analyses and theories i’ve seen in the byler fandom make tons of sense. it’s literally the reason why the byler community has grown so much. and this is coming from someone who used to ship midleven immediately post season 3, but stopped early 2020 (i think?) due to the anti-midleven analyses i read which made so much sense. mike and el are simply not a good couple. they would be so much better off as platonic friends.

also going back to the part about the analyzing of facial expressions - i’m assuming you primarily mean mike’s facial expressions. you see, the thing is that we, as an audience, do not have direct access to mike wheeler’s thoughts. we don’t know what’s going on inside that very complex mind of his. the only thing we have left to rely on are his facial expressions, body language and general actions. we don’t have much other choice BUT to analyze those aspects of him. and when we realize that mike’s actions directly contradict with his facial expressions/tone of voice/just the subtext in general, then what conclusion are we supposed to draw other than him not being genuine?

you also oversimplify the analyses we do in this fandom. it goes deeper than just the color of mike’s pants or whatever. yes, we may bring up color coding when it comes to mike and will but it’s not just some random color is it? it’s typically blue and yellow in reference to the “blue and yellow meets in the west” theory. which, if you actually paid attention to the show, you’d see that it makes sense. there are MULTIPLE times throughout this show (and especially in season 4) where mike and will have been color coded blue and yellow respectively.

aside from color coding, we also look very very deep into the characters, into the overall narrative, into the parallels/foreshadowing/subtext. we spend a lot of time actually trying to unravel what the duffers are trying to say with this story - which btw is completely valid. just like any other form of art that tends to be analyzed, analyzing stranger things (a tv show which is another form of art) makes complete sense.

and come on now, if you think that midleven is endgame because that’s what “the story of the show is plainly telling” then i’d seriously like you to rewatch the show, but this time with no inherent biases and with an open-mind.

in conclusion, byler is endgame and byler nation will never stop analyzing and having fun.

[sunsetserenade]

!!! the social media pages are mainly about hype!! it’s about views and likes and traction! so don’t worry that a social media page is hyping m*leven right now, they know that’s a large part of their fan base and will get them attention!! keep you’re eyes peeled for the trailer, some of our answers will be there. don’t lose hope!

long post ahead—please continue reading!

i know the other day i made that post where i said my confidence on the possibility of byler being canon fluctuates, but today im feeling hopeful! if byler truly does become canon, it’s obviously going to be shocking and be a surprise—the goal right now may be to build up that shock factor. by hyping up m*leven, that will make it more shocking when it is subverted.

more likely, though, there’s a different reason. it’s like i and others have said—heteronormativity plays a big role in how popular media is marketed. it’s true that m*leven shippers occupy the majority of the fan base. they’re obviously going to appeal to that demographic for now! if they suddenly started hyping byler and ignore m*leven, they’re going to lose people. i hate saying that but it’s true. there’s a lot of homophobia in this fandom, and in fandom culture as a whole, so right now it’s all about the money.

i will of course exercise the possibility that byler doesn’t happen. it’s out there. and if that happens, i will be severely disappointed. i can’t say id be surprised, but just… desolated.

but i really don’t think we’ll be disappointed.

and yes, it’s possible that, say, netflix may try to stop the writers from making byler canon. but that’s why i think byler being canon won’t happen until season 5—the writers are gonna want to milk as much money as they can out of the franchise, for as long as they can, before doing something that is unfortunately seen as daring and may get streaming pulled from various places. that’s a worst-case-scenario type of reaction, but it’s possible.

the Popular Straight Ship will obviously get them more money and attention. but with how much trope subversion the duffers have already done and how much evidence for byler is plainly laid out, i do believe we have a high chance.

the entire story has been planned from the beginning. sure, things have been modified here and there, like bringing el back because the duffers loved mbb’s acting, changing when and how bob was going to die, etc etc… but ultimately they’ve stuck to the main story. i strongly believe they intend to finish it they way they planned to from the beginning.

i will mention this again because i want to emphasize its importance. el wasn’t supposed to live past season 1. if they’ve had the story planned since the beginning, obviously m*leven wasn’t (and won’t be) the endgame relationship.

and keeping that fact in mind—that el was supposed to be dead—that puts a whole new perspective on season 2 and the byler scenes. if el was truly dead, then don’t those scenes look a lot like they have romantic undertones? im not saying that since el’s alive that those undertones are gone. im saying that by bringing el back, the trope subversion that will happen will be monumental. imagine how it will be received by young queer teens and even closeted adults AND straight people when they see the main pairing not be a boy and a girl. yes, it will receive backlash. but the opposite will happen, too. it would open the minds and hearts of so many people. it would be one of the biggest moments talked about in the future regarding the history of popular media tropes. they have the opportunity to do something incredible. i think, and i hope, that they plan to do it.

the main thing we can do right now is wait. it’s painful and excruciating and obnoxious etc etc but we will have our answers in time. we’ll get the trailer soon, and the season will drop not long after. may isn’t that far away.

take what the social media pages post with a grain of salt. there’s nothing wrong with reading into things—that’s what stories are all about, anyway—but don’t lose hope! again, it’s about money, it’s about traction, it’s about views. but that’s temporary. that doesn’t mean our chances are gone.

[sevensided]

"#and the relationships that make it out? well they’re pretty set in stone imo" -> Would love to hear your elaboration on this. I assume it transcends romantic pairings as well.

Referring to the tags of @finalgirlwillbyers on this post.

I can’t speak for Gail, so I’ll let them add onto this if she feels like it. I think that yes, ultimately, ST is at its core about family, namely found families. Their are friendships within the family (such as the Party) but for the most part every character is bound by shared experience (the horrors in Hawkins). So, when we think about certain constants in the story, friendship and the importance of family are certainly two themes that stand out.

I perceived Gail’s comment to be an allusion to the relationships that have less guesswork involved (Jopper, in that they will be endgame) as well as to some relationships that we’ve considered and built a case for in fanon (Byler). I personally think relationships like Jancy, Jopper, and Byler are endgame, so for me, while they might be torn apart by the narrative and made to break up and come back together, they’re still going to make it out in the end.

Let me know if this is what you’re asking!

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

Do you like El? I got the impression that you don't really like her. And if you consider Byler as endgame, what kind of ending do you expect for El? Season 2 reminded me that El supposed to die in Season 1. This is immediately felt, since I got the impression that the Duffers simply do not know what to do with her, she had a rather boring story in Season 2. The only thing that added interest to her story was her relationship with Hop. But this is more Hop’s Arc, and El is just an addition to it.

I like El. That is to say, I like the idea of the character. I think she was very well written in Seasons 1 & 2, and she’s been very well acted by Millie Bobby Brown. It was really Season 3 that soured me on her, and that’s more of a criticism of the writing than the character. I’d like to believe that her depiction in Season 3 is intentional, and that they have plans to build on it, but it still remains to be seen. Her story is complex in that her personal journey is overinfluenced by others, and this results in her appearing to not have her own journey. Season 3 can still work with that story, as long as it was meant to demonstrate that she has a ways to go still. 

Basically, El is a tricky character to work with. Her lack of social and emotional development early in life should result in a stunted child who has difficulty adapting to a more normal life. This is what we see in Seasons 1 & 2, and it was handled very well. El had a basic set of personal values that drove her actions: personal survival, protection of her friends, and a desire for freedom. She had little opportunity for growth considering that she went from being raised in the very restrictive lab to spending a year in Hopper’s cabin with little besides him and TV for models of behavior. Her “spying” on Mike isn’t terribly unusual given her isolation and the fact that she bonded with him the most. The possessive behavior, such as knocking Max off her skateboard, is concerning, but not terribly unusual given her upbringing. When she finally reunites with the Party, she makes sure to share a moment with Dustin and Lucas, showing that she missed them as well as Mike. She also checks in on Will while he’s unconscious, so one would think she’d want to get to know him.

Then comes Season 3, and, suddenly, El is fine about being stuck in the cabin so long as Mike is with her. She seems to care little about seeing Dustin or Lucas outside of helping the Party with Dustin’s surprise welcome home. I don’t recall her interacting with Will at all. She also seems to be incredibly dismissive of Hopper, despite their Season 2 arc seeming to be how much they love each other despite each having difficulty adapting to a father/daughter relationship. This would ostensibly be Mike’s influence on her, but it still shows a major compromise of her values, as well as a regression of her Season 2 development. We’re seeing her use Mike as a sort of safety blanket (she literally clings to him when Dustin shows off his gadgets), and she continues to do so until she catches him in a lie. 

I do sometimes wonder if the Duffers painted themselves into a corner with her. She was a very popular character, which I suppose led to them adding her to Season 2. They claimed that they originally intended for her to have truly died in the act of killing the demogorgon. Her power level necessitated keeping her away from the threat for most of Season 2, resulting in the seemingly out of place episode where she goes to see Kali. Any development from that arc is missing in Season 3 aside from a single mention of “bitchin’” by El. She lacks the assertiveness, sense of camaraderie, or even personal style that this episode seemed to impart onto her. Instead, she’s revealed to still be a chameleon of sorts, taking on the qualities and mannerisms of whomever she is currently attached to. She goes from having Mike’s flippant arrogance to Max’s sassy assertiveness. 

This is all something I could live with, and even appreciate, as long as it leads somewhere. I’m begging for Season 3 to all have been a means to hammer home that El is not developing in a healthy fashion. If that ends up being the case, then I will be happy. 

A sense that I dislike El may come out in regards to her powers, though. I have a dislike for super powerful characters who can solve any given problem. Season 3 was heavily reliant on El. Unlike Season 2, El is present at each occasion where her powers are beneficial, and she is subsequently able to win, to one degree or another, each time. It was particularly frustrating during the sauna test. She is shown being overpowered by Billy, which could have been a good occasion to show that El can’t do it alone, as well as her friends not being totally helpless. Instead, they have Mike utterly fail at helping, and El manages to suddenly bounce back and defeat Billy even though she had just failed a moment prior. They may have shown El struggling, increasingly so, but she was still able to win every battle. Seasons 1 & 2 carefully spooned out her powers until their climactic battles, but not Season 3.

I suppose, given that I think Season 3′s over-the-top, in-your-face action was intentional, that they wanted to highlight the overreliance on El, and also show that her powers can’t constantly save the day. They do ultimately have her powers vanish, requiring the rest of the cast to figure things out. Still, it was frustrating to also have her be the only to break Billy away from the Mindflayer’s control. That really should’ve been Max’s role, if anyone’s, and it was just another “El saves the day” moment that grated on me. Yes, she did it without her powers, but only because her powers gave her the knowledge to put it to work. 

I imagine Season 4 will involve her coping with life without powers, which I think will be great. Not only will it serve as a plot necessity to keep her from finding Hopper, but it gives her a chance to be a regular kid. Her biggest character arc, hinted at by Max, is that she needs to discover who she is. While she had some growth in Season 2, limited though it may have been, she regressed in Season 3. She won’t be able to cling to Mike or Max now that she’s moved away. It’s been her tendency to simply emulate others that has held her back. Her being Hopper’s daughter is much a part of her arc as it is his. She doesn’t know how to have a father due to her only previous experience being “Papa.” Her attitude with him in Season 3 wasn’t her learning how to be a typical teenager. Rather, she was emulating Mike, making it a symptom of her larger problems. 

El, ultimately, hasn’t achieved even a rudimentary sense of self, and Mike is partially to blame for it, albeit uninentionally. Anytime El has shown any growth, she’s ultimately reverted in order to be with Mike again. El is better without Mike, and vice versa. They were codependent, unhealthy. Their relationship isn’t necessarily beyond repair, but it would almost require a complete reboot. I think it would be extremely limiting for her story have her end up with Mike when we’ve already seen how bad it’s been for both of them. An ending for El should involve her discovering who she really is outside of Mike’s, or anyone else’s, influence. It should involve El finally being part of a family (be it just Hopper or an integration into the Byers), as well as learning to be part of a larger group of friends instead of attaching herself to one person (as she did with Mike and Max). It had to have been intentional to show her lack of interaction with other characters. Otherwise, it’s just bad writing. The Duffers may have made a risky decision in bringing back a character they originally didn’t plan to, but I choose to believe they did so with at least some idea of what to do with her.