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[tremendousnachodonut]

I think the most frustrating thing about the gold panel is that the actors were very predictable and consistent and everyone still lost their minds: J*red was bigoted but attempted to hide behind what he perceived to be an argument based in literary theory, and Jensen remained diplomatic. Having him come in after J*red painted that diplomacy in a really unattractive light, but everything he said was pretty much the same. And yes, it’s hurtful, but I’ve been hurt so much by this show they can’t touch me at this point.

We had a wedding day for them. We have wholly reclaimed the narrative. And you now what? We have confirmation that Misha played the scene queer, and that it was written queer. If Jensen Ackles wants to tell me that Dean Winchester didn’t know it was romantic until the last minute? Totally fine. And if he wants to give a non-answer, it’s no skin off my nose; he honestly doesn’t know Dean as well as we do. As for the other actor, well, he wasn’t in the scene anyway, so I’m not surprised his interpretation is wrong, especially when he tends to dislike major plot points that aren’t about him. “Forgive me, but that wasn’t what that scene was about?” I won’t, and you can sit the fuck down, because in this instance, you have no idea what you’re talking about. His reading holds as much weight as any of ours because nothing of Sam is in there. Sorry, buddy!

No matter what, those two played the roles they’ve always played in this little paratextual dance we do every time we’re in a similar setting with them. We shouldn’t be surprised at the outcome! What we should do is write our fic, and make our art, and share our gifs and edits. We should double down on this story that we know to be romantic because it’s been confirmed by the most important creative sources in this scene. We should enjoy it.

Don’t be upset. Really. It’s a little pathetic that almost a year later, after the most important people in the scene have told us that it’s queer (and the other most important actor has left the door wide open for a bisexual Dean - could be better but could be worse), one of the show leads is still attempting to hold onto his textual authority through gross bigotry. It’s funny, the show was never only about Dean and Cas, but it’s become about them because of all this hullabaloo. 

All I can say is, they’re ours now. And I hate to break it to whoever thinks they own the story, but Dean and Cas woke up sore this morning after a night of marathon sex, and shared a mug of coffee in bed. 

[tremendousnachodonut]

god I just came across your post and I have been screaming this at people re the j2 gold panel and just. thank you. from a very tired very I am trying so hard to just. 'make people hear and understand ' person re jackles' response. thank you.

You're welcome!! 💕 And thanks for being one of those people too!

For the record, re: Jackes, I do think there's a discussion to be had about the ways one should be careful to not equate queerness with something too ~otherworldly to comprehend~ too. I said this last night in response to some stuff I saw floating around:

elevating queerness to an emotional purity or unquantifiable mystery to consciously or accidentally avoid queer sex implications is Not Great

queer love is NOT automatically about sex, but divorcing the two can uphold the idea queer sex is incompatible with depthless holy love

However! We don't even know for sure if that's where Jensen would have gone with this topic on that stage! We also don't know that, if he had talked about it from this angle, he would have even meant it in a "it can't be romantic or sexual because it's A Larger Than Life Love." It can be romantic AND sexual AND Heavenly–and it is–and I feel people need to keep that in mind during these discussions.

(Not an invalidation of ace people as an ace person myself, either, but these sorts of discussions about queer sex don't exist in a vacuum)

But regardless... yeah, while Jensen should be able to call out Jared's blatant homophobia, I think we all know the many reasons why that's not how these things go. Especially on stage.

"Can I please get some nuance in this house?" is my rallying cry pretty much always lmao.

[tremendousnachodonut]

Okay I listened to the Jared and Jensen panel live aside from saying “wait for video” and “that last question was a trainwreck,” I want to clarify some things for people:

Jared answered a question about a scene / character dynamic he was not at all involved in. He should not have done that.

Earlier, Jensen brought up 15x18 unprompted again, for the record.

But THIS question was asking “When did you know Cas was in love with Dean?”

Jensen said he knew for a fact that Dean didn’t know till the end because that’s how he played it, and he went to discuss when he as JENSEN found out, and… he never got to answer, because Jared felt compelled to spontaneously rant a “no homo.”

I really need everyone to know and understand that the validity of Cas’ confession being romantic was not questioned by Jensen or called “open to interpretation” until the other person on that stage—who shouldn’t have answered at all—opened his mouth and spoke for 2 minutes. Badly.

Jared’s entire rant came across as a VERY bad attempt at a “we know who’s sitting in this room let’s not alienate this particular audience” answer that then parroted homophobic talking points. Jensen backpedalled after that, and that’s why it went off the rails.

It basically went like this: 

-Jensen answering the question as asked

-Jared going the fuck off and basically turning it into “hey love is love, not sex, who knows what it was, you decide” (with a lot of bad things / parroted talking points said in there)

-Jensen then backpedaling and doing a blanket “open to interpretation” sort of approach, which was not really the question at all

I think we’ve all expected (and can continue to expect) for some time now that “open to interpretation” is the company line that has been / will be required about Dean. But thus far, it’s not how Jensen himself has approached the topic of Cas’ confession at all.

And again, it was not the question asked here. There was no need for this.

Jared fucked up, unprompted, to put it mildly. He felt the need to “no homo” Cas’ confession. That was not where things were going until that very bad, very appalling rant.

Society if Jensen was allowed to call him on it and a “united front” for “the brothers” wasn’t required in literally any and all public interaction between the two of them. Doesn’t excuse the lack of callout, but oh my fucking God.

[tremendousnachodonut]

So about what Jensen said yesterday. Yes, I do mostly agree with what he said because it's true that Cas feelings towards Dean wasn't just romantic nor sexual, it was so much more. As Jensen put it, Cas love superseded the human understanding and there aren't really any words to describe his love (which just makes it just that more beautiful).

That said, Cas blatantly stated the fact that he was in love with dean through the confession scene, or as Misha puts it; it was his homosexual declarense of love, which isn't up for interpretation, it just is!

[tremendousnachodonut]

Thinking about how Dean saw the bloody handprint on the tree in Regarding Dean and remembered Cas.

[tremendousnachodonut]

Ok but there actually was no reason for dean to pin doctor sexy against the wall like that while questioning him and intently studying his face. He just straight up wanted to do that

[tremendousnachodonut]

i mean is it. any surprise that so many people are so deranged about dean winchester. he is a silly little man who likes to wear funny hats and all he wants is to be loved and he grew up abused and deprived and had to be a parent before he could be a kid. dean who is undeniably queer and just wants a happy ending for him and his little makeshift family. played by jensen ackles who has the face of a fucking god who cries perfect pearly tears and looks like a baroque painting when he’s got large bloody gashes across his forehead. the perfect hodgepodge of incredibly appealing and relatable characteristics while also being completely out of this world. i may be a casgirl first and foremost but dean is. dean is just. dean is. he just is

[tremendousnachodonut]

so when you gonna tell her that we did that, too? she thinks it’s special, but it’s all reused.

[tremendousnachodonut]

cracked chassis || dean’s confession, “paint it black”

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parallelsnatural

[tremendousnachodonut]

The way Dean flirts with Cas, even when he's mad–

[tremendousnachodonut]

Absolute funniest Sam response to Dean awkwardly coming out in late seasons would be him being like. Look. Dean. It’s ok. I know. I saw your siren. And dean’s like what does that mean. And sam’s like the siren. That you had sex with. I saw him. And dean’s like you thought I had SEX with him and Sam is like yeah I mean that’s how all the other vics got infected or like maybe just a kiss but you know. Mouth to mouth action and Dean is just like we shared a flask!!! You thought I had sex with him this whole time?? And Sam says well yeah you seemed pretty upset about it so Bobby and I just agreed not to bring it up and dean’s like BOBBY??????

[tremendousnachodonut]

Just Dean flirting with Cas the moment he sees him for the first time

[tremendousnachodonut]

[insp]

[tremendousnachodonut]

so, about dean rescuing cas…

[tremendousnachodonut]

Jackles jacting joices at its finest y'all

[tremendousnachodonut]

Oh nothing, just Dean looking back at Cas as Sam talk about Eileen dying over and over again :))