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I love the films but I'm always going to mourn Legolas's book personality not being as clear in them. He's way too serious in the films for a guy who talks to rocks and is consistently the one screaming at various terrors in the books.
#he was such a goofy goober but they tried to make him the hot one#deserves to be said twice#the true weirdo of the fellowship#the lord of the rings#legolas#legolas greenleaf#lotr
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“You’re fucking weird….lets make out about it”
‘But you are a dwarf, and dwarves are strange folk. I do not like this place, and I shall like it no more by the light of the day. But you comfort me, Gimli, and I am glad to have you standing nigh with your stout legs and your hard axe.’
I think this was Legolas trying to flirt with Gimli and I think it’s working.
#Legolas to Gimli and Gimli to Legolas#they’re in love your honor#it’s nice#gigolas#lotr#the lord of the rings#legolas greenleaf#gimli son of gloin
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legolas and gandalf having a diva-off on caradhras is literally one of the best scenes in the books.
everyone is literally dying and legolas decides to be a smartass, and naturally gandalf can’t resist an opportunity to be sassy
#bad social skills Legolas is my favorite#Gandalf and his eternal sass#honestly one of my favorite scenes from the book#it’s so funny I crack up every time#Aragorn is too busy trying not to die to be irritated#lotr shitpost#lord of the rings#lotr#legolas greenleaf#gandalf the grey
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ykw i think they were cowards for making legolas the hot one and gimli the comedic relief in the movies- personally I feel like there was a lot of material in the books for the exact opposite dynamic
#Legolas is a socially awkward backwoods himbo and Gimli is a glorious warrior poet with no chill emotionally#and they are both SO FUNNY#this is a hill and I will die on it#lotr#lord of the rings#legolas greenleaf#gimli son of gloin#gigolas#gimleaf
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They are both poetic AND hilarious!
Gimli’s speech about finding the beauty of the glittering caves during battle makes me tear every time! Legolas, dictionary definition of unsocialized, not reading the room and practically booping everyone’s nose while they’re trying not to die in the snow ��� Gimli wildly oscillating between joy and rage when they find Merry and Pippin and almost giving himself a stroke 💯 Legolas’ heartbreak and melancholy when he explains the gulls and sea longing to Gimli, Merry, and Pippin 😭
I could go on because they’re my favorite characters. I wish we had gotten to see more of their book personalities and their relationship to each other and how important it was.
i wish gimli and legolas were more poetic in the movies like they were in the books. i would love to see this gruff ass dwarf recite the stories of his people to a clueless elf who sometimes talks about the stars or something
#honorable mentions#Gimli dropping his axe in front of tree bears is top tier comedy#Legolas constantly reminding everyone that he is OLD is so weird of him I LOVE IT#also they are married and that’s very nice#lord of the rings#legolas#gimli son of gloin#legolas greenleaf#lotr#legolas x gimli#gimleaf#gigolas
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helm's deep
[id in alt]
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GREENLEAF GREENLEAF
Nobody has a more peak college experience than Gimli Gloinsson.
Like.
He goes on this great study abroad deal, his parents are proud, he’s already so cultured and has such a way with words-
And here their perfect son, with the golden tongue, and the classic dwarven beauty comes home with this skinny elven redneck on his arm and three hairs in a special locket on his jacket like “so I decided to major in Elven Studies and this is my boyfriend Greenleaf Greenleaf. We’re moving close to a forest so we can look at the stars together.” While Gloin sobs LADDIE NO and wonders where he went wrong.
#I guffawed#noble/poetic/pinnacle of beauty Gimli and his feral backwoods prince boyfriend are my favorite#legolas x gimli#lord of the rings#lotr#gimli son of gloin#Greenleaf Greenleaf#lol
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Ok ok but wait this has been bothering me for so long but why is the pony named Bill when his previous owner, Bill Furny, notorious piece of shit, received one of the sickest burns of all time when Sam threw an apple at his face and said it was a waste of a good apple?!?!
Why was the pony named Bill?!?!?! Who named the pony Bill?!?!?! Was it Sam?!?! Was he like *steeples fingers* “I’ll get my revenge even more by naming this poor pony after that crapsack and treating him so well and loving him more than everyone else EXCEPT FRODO because REVENGE!!!!”
Is this what happened?!
It has been driving me crazy for such a long time and every time I talk to someone about it there like “huh dunno that’s weird” and change the subject lol
THE LORD OF THE RINGS The Fellowship of the Ring
#am I missing something here#what would it be like if I didn’t care about inconsequential things so much?#but I do#I CANNOT BE THE ONLY PERSON WHO HAS WONDERED ABOUT THIS#bill the pony#the goodest horsey#lotr shitpost#lotr#bill the pony my beloved#lord of the rings#the fellowship of the ring
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Okay quick rundown:
Nandor considers Guillermo his closest companion.
Nandor will straight murder a man for talking poorly to Guillermo...unless Guillermo tells him not to.
Nandor asked Guillermo to stay with him, and Guillermo said yes and took his offered hand.
Nandor listens to everything Guillermo says even when it seems like he isn't.
Nandor and Guillermo are back to their nightly hairbrush ritual.
Nandor picked out a slutty lil outfit for Guillermo and Guillermo wore it for him.
Nandor liked how Guillermo looked in the slutty little outfit.
Everyone in that goddamn house knows those two are down bad, but especially Nadja who is going to kill them both if they don't fuck soon.
Guillermo thinks of the mansion as his home, because that's where his vampires are.
Nandor asked Guillermo to climb into bed with him.
Nandor is glad the cameras will be gone and kept giving Guillermo and the cameras significant, furtive looks.
Nandor built a massive underground lair safe from the prying eyes of the camera crew before he knew they were leaving.
Nandor heard Guillermo’s doubts and concerns and did it all himself.
Guillermo prefers to call Nandor "Master."
They're going to stay together. Keep having adventures together. Keep orbiting each other like twin stars. Grow in small increments. Maybe never accomplish anything great, but who cares? They've already accomplished what matters: they have each other.
It's a great ending. It's a decisively Nandermo endgame. It's what they promised to deliver, and it makes me feel seen and represented and treated with care as a queer person. I'm not interested in arguing with anyone about this.
#THANK YOU#op is correct#also Nandor let Guillermo go THAT IS HUGE#wwdits#wwdits spoilers#wwdits s6#nandermo
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Also also also Nandor let Guillermo go 🥹😭 he didn’t argue or try to get him to stay even though he was visibly devastated. Butttt yeah was very happy when Guillermo walked back into the room!
I did shed a tear when guillermo was telling nandor that he was going to leave & I can't tell u how relieved
(spoilers below)
I was when guillermo came back and nandor opened that casket
& now, I know that the gang will keep going however long they can
sweet, raunchy vampires in the night 🖤
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Nandor going "i never left" as if he didn't join a cult and then try to sleep for a hundred years to avoid his problems
#you are not wrong#wwdits#wwdits season 6#nandor the relentless#guillermo de la cruz#nandermo#they are idiots your honor
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*turns into the balrog so I can destroy this whole fucking mess of a season ESPECIALLY “GRAND ELF”
“You wish to heal me? Heal yourself!” *jumps off a cliff* OST: “Fall of Galadriel”

This nonsense will never fail to make me laugh. Peak comedy, Amazon. Truly.
#why does Amazon hate Tolkien so much?#why do the writers hate their audience so much?!#the actors are great but they can only do so much to compensate for terrible writing#this episode was beyond that threshold…#total fuckshow…#trop season 2#rop season 2 finale#rop s2#rings of power#the rings of power#lotr
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This sums up what my brain has been muddling through RE Eowyn perfectly! Lovely breakdown of this WELL DONE YOU ARE APPRECIATED!
And just to add some recent Eowyn and Faramir thoughts I’ve been stewing on… their week long friendship turned courtship is WILD to me. Ya it’s fiction Ya different time I KNOWWWWW but 1) Everything Eowyn does and says once she wakes up in the houses of healing (and before duh) is a red flag and 2) Faramir… dude is recovering from arrow wounds from war/his dad almost killing him who then dies in front of him. Red flag!
They are WILD for getting engaged a week after this all goes down! It’s unhinged!
Am I alone in thinking about this?!?!
Can you please develop more on what in your opinion makes Éowyn originally doomed by the narrative? I agree with the idea, I'm just curious as to what traits or parts of her narrative makes her doomed according to you!
In her first scene, she comes across as almost spectral.
First time we see her, she's stood in the shadows behind a decaying old man and his creepy, snake like advisor. Her nickname, the White Lady, conjurs images of phantom "white ladies", which are staples of supernatural mythology, are are usually found in rural places, and are associated with tragic histories and unrequited/doomed love.
When is dismissed, she leaves, she doesn't speak, and passes silently from the room, but she passes judgement on those she passes. She looks on Theoden with "cool pity", and recognises the power in Aragorn. A pale, voiceless, woman, dressed all in white, passing judgement on those before her, before silently gliding from the room, like a wraith or spirit.
To further reinforce the ghost like imager, she is cold; "thought her fair and cold, like a morning of pale spring that is not yet come into womanhood." She looks on Theoden after his recovery with neither joy or love but with "cool pity".
Whereas warmth usually holds connotations with life, the cold conjurs images of corpses and the grave. Even the use of "spring" in her description, a season associated with life, birth and new hope, is described as "pale". The combination of "spring" (life) and "pale" (death), conjures an image of something that is at once living and dead.
A lot of our view point characters look on her with unease. She is repeatedly described as "stern", and the only time that stern façade cracks is when she shows emotions that are discomforting for other characters.
Her hand shakes when she serves Aragorn the cup, and Aragorn senses her attraction and is deeply concerned about. The intensity of her desire, and Aragorn's unspoken unease, makes for an aura of discomfort and dread.
The only time Eowyn shows "life" is when she's trembling with passion for Aragorn, a passion unrequited, or when her eyes are sparkling with visions of war and death.
The first time her stern face truly cracks, and she lets the feelings show, is when she breaks down in tears, begging Aragorn to let her ride with him. She's either frozen or weeping.
Everyone who observes this is deeply distressed. They find it painful to watch a proud and stern woman break down in tears and beg, a sensation the reader shares with them.
Aragorn himself is deeply pained and troubled by his concern for Eowyn. 'Only those who knew him well and were near to him saw the pain that he bore.'
Aragorn later admits in the Houses of Healing that his concern for her haunted him after their parting, and that nothing caused him so much fear on the Paths of the Dead as his fear of what may come to her.
In the same chapter, Aragorn likens her to a lily. Lilies themselves have connotations of death, and also harken back to Elaine, the "lily maiden" who died of heartbreak after being forsaken by her love, Lancelot.
So Eowyn is a figure of death, despair and tragic love. She is white, cold, lily-like, and is looked on with grief by many who perceive her. And not just grief, but discomfort. They don't just notice her distress, but are distressed by her.
When Merry meets her, he notices she seems to have been weeping, an image that is uncomfortably at odds with her stern manner.
Even Theoden, who cannot be credited with being that tuned in to Eowyn's feelings, notices she is unhappy, asking her how she is, and commenting twice on her obvious distress.
When Merry meets her in her guise as Dernhelm, he shivers, because he feels he is looking at someone with neither hope nor will to live. Their journey to the Pelennor passes in silence. Eowyn is a solitary figure, cut off from all those around her, riding to her death.
This culminates in Eowyn laughing at the Witch King, who brings despair to all who face him, because at this point she has literally nothing to fear from him.
The scene in which she faces him is written as a death scene. She fights him valiantly, but his destruction seems to be her own, and the consequences of her apparent death (Eomer's reaction) are severe.
Her tragedy appears compounded when Theoden bids her farewell, unaware she was with him the entire time, which rather sums up his fond, yet blinkered attitude towards her. She gives her life defending the dignity of a man, who is only half-aware of her existence.
Eowyn is mourned. Eomer rages against the heavens at her passing, and the riders of Rohan speak of their regret that she followed them without knowing. She is carried alongside Theoden, and it is only Imrahil's sharp perception and respect for her beauty that causes him to notice she is still alive, taking them all, and us, by surprise. Up until this point, Eowyn has been doomed, and she seems to have met her doom, heroically so.
But there's still a spark of life in her, still a weak breath in her lungs, and that's enough for her to be saved, and taken to the Houses of Healing. It's just a faint sign of life, barely noticeable, but it's life, which means there's hope.
As we look into Eowyn's mindset, we begin to see why she is such a tragic figure.
The first time she is addressed by name, she is being sent from the room. Her orders to take charge of the people of Rohan, which should be something of an hour of triumph and honour for her, feels almost insulting, in how her uncle would rather throw his crown to the people to take for themselves, than name her as an heir after Eomer, and then forgets she is even a part of their house, until Hama reminds him.
Our final scene of Eowyn in Two Towers is of her as a solitary figure, left alone to guard an empty hall, watching as the men ride away beneath their sparkling spears, a striking contrast between the camaraderie and fellowship we witness between the men riding out together.
That Eowyn is loved and respected by many, as revealed by Hama and her ability to safely lead the people to Dunharrow, despite their reluctance, compounds the tragedy, because she is not entirely alone and overlooked, but the people she wishes to been seen by, the people she holds in esteem, Theoden and Aragorn, reject. Theoden, unthinkingly, by forgetting her worth until it is spelled out for him, and Aragorn in being unable to accept her love, or her offer of service.
Eowyn's driving conflict, the one that seems central to her character, is not even with the villains who everyone else is banding together to fight. She is part of that fight against them, but her personal struggles stem just as much from her conflict with her own family, her own people and her own society, as they do with the threat of Mordor. Victory over the Mordor does not necessarily mean victory for her, we know for Eowyn to be spared her doom, she can't just be rescued from the enemy that everyone else is fighting. She is trapped, caged, and would rather ride out and die, than live to see herself fade.
“What do you fear, lady?" [Aragorn] asked. "A cage," [Éowyn] said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
That whole exchange between Aragorn and Eowyn reveal that above all else, beneath her stern facade and dreams of valour, Eowyn is absolutely seething. She is burning up with rage and frustration, and it is not just her enemies she is raging at, but her allies.
Her narrative starts to turn in the Houses of Healing. Not only is Aragorn able to bring her back to life, but it's clear that despite her unhappiness, Eomer's love for her is still a comfort and a source of happiness. When she wakes up, her first words are joy of seeing her brother there. For a character who until this point has been a figure of sorrow and loneliness, for her to speak so instinctively of joy at the presence of another is momentous.
This joy seems well justified, as not only do we witness the extent of Eomer's love, we also see a change in Eomer, and his perception of his sister.
Her sufferings, and the causes of her sufferings, are finally acknowledged. But they aren't acknowledged as some ephemeral, intangible thing, caused by some a broke heart and some vague sense that she's just "doomed", but as the result of a set of specific circumstances that naturally caused her great feelings of despair and hopelessness. Eowyn isn't tragic because "she's Eowyn and she's doomed", but because of Grima's manipulation, and the constraints inflicted on her because of her sex.
That Gandalf compares Eomer's lot to Eowyn's, and points out to Eomer the freedoms and opportunities he had which she did not, further emphasises that it was Eowyn's circumstances that made her so tragic.
Eowyn wasn't "just doomed" and Eomer wasn't "just not doomed". Had their roles been reversed, Eomer could have ended up in similar straits.
Eomer hears this explanation, and a change occurs. He looks on Eowyn differently, and starts rethinking their whole lives together.
In the causes of her suffering being recognised, there is now some hope for her recovery. Her "ailment" has been "diagnosed", and it's much easier to find a "treatment" and a "cure", when there is a "diagnosis". There's a practical solution to Eowyn's suffering, and the person closes to her is brought one step nearer to seeing it.
Eowyn remains in the Houses of Healing, something she sees as frustrating, unnecessary and pointless. She doesn't want to live, she doesn't expect to heal, she thinks herself fit enough to ride and die, and that's what she wants to do.
Eowyn still sees herself as doomed by the narrative, but the narrative and the cast no longer see her as such. She is kept in the Houses, she is encouraged to rest and to heal, she is encouraged by Faramir to have hope, and gradually she starts to thaw.
She also becomes more gentle and vulnerable. Her youth is dwelled on, and she former concerns about living forever in a cage for a moment lapse as she focusses on a more trivial worry that Faramir thinks she's childish. When she scales down her request from permission to ride to battle, to be allowed to walk the gardens and look east, she speaks as a "maiden, young and sad."
In becoming more vulnerable, she becomes more approachable. She is no longer the ice maiden, a spectre, but a living person, with worries large and small, and Faramir is able to smile at her and offer her consolation.
The requests she makes during her "thawing", to look east and not be confined to her bed, signals a slight, perhaps unnoticed by her, return to hope. East is, as Faramir remarks, where their hopes lie. In looking east, she is looking towards hope. Furthermore, her second request, to not be confined to her bed, is something that Faramir can provide a practical solution for. She can have a chamber facing east, and she can have freedom to walk the gardens.
He almost speaks to her like a conciliator, or a negotiator. He talks her down from asking for death, to having a chamber looking east, and freedom to walk the gardens and take in the sun, in return to her agreeing to stay in this house in our care, lady, and take your rest," . That he phrases it gives the sense she has agency, he isn't saying "you will stay, and you will have a chamber that looks east, and you will walk in the sun", but instead he says if she agrees to stay, this is what they can do for her.
Therefore, the choice to stay, the choice to walk in the sun, the choice to heal, is put back into her hands, and in accepting Faramir's offer, she accepts the chance to heal.
Both Faramir and Aragorn are struck by pity when they meet Eowyn, but Aragorn's pity makes him hold her at arm's length. He maintains a distance between them, he turns from her and rides away. When he does try to "reason" with her, he only makes things worse, twisting the nail into Eowyn's frustrating circumstances.
Faramir feels pity for Eowyn, but he also feels kinship. She isn't some strange, removed creature. He doesn't look at her and see someone who is doomed. Nor does his treatment of her isolate her, as the treatment of so many others have.
He speaks of the pair of them as a unit, right from the start. He notes that both of them are "prisoners" of the healers, he tells her that both of them will be able to fight the end, if it comes to them, if they rest, and that the hours of waiting are something both of them must endure, and that both of them have passed through a shadow, and in from kinship, he expresses a belief that he might find comfort in her presence.
Eowyn's isolation and lack of agency are key causes in her despair, so it is understandable how this man, who makes efforts to understand her, to get to know, to befriend her and to make a connection with her, is such a balm, and manages to cause such a turn around in her arc.
Through her friendship, and later romance, with Faramir, she opens up, and arguably becomes more emotionally resilient, neither freezing her emotions, "cold and proud", or breaking down, weeping or begging. She shows uncertainty and fear in more moderate, casual ways, instead of pushing them down until they burst out of her.
However, she is still Eowyn. She is still proud (Faramir describes her as looking queenly), she is still proud, strong willed and sharp tongued. Even in her happiness, when she agrees to marry Faramir, she teases him for his people's snobbery, and she refuses the Warden's attempts to "release" her into Faramir's care, by instead asking to stay at the Houses of Healing.
She doesn't go from Ice Maiden to Fragile Flower. Instead, in grasping her future by the hands, in choosing for herself what she will do and where she will go, in deciding her own fate, her own role (that of healer), she shows that she is as strong willed as ever, and Faramir, who re-iterates twice; when speaking of his plans to marry her and go to Ithilien with her, that they will only do so if she is willing.
Eowyn also makes it clear to Faramir that while she will return to him, she has other duties and priorities that will keep her. That is, the rebuilding of the Mark. She has to go, she will come back. A striking contrast to her first introduction, when Eowyn is told "go", then told "stay", as it pleases those around her. She now has freedom of movement, she now chooses when to go, when to stay and when to return.
That Eowyn speaks of how she must go back, must look on her country and help her brother, also indicates that Eowyn sees her own worth and importance. She values herself and feels valued.
At Theoden's funeral/Eomer's coronation, Eowyn plays an integral role in the ceremonies. She presents Eomer with a golden cup and gives the signal for the cups to be raised to drink to the new king. This in itself indicates the esteem in which Eomer holds Eowyn. However, she has arguably been a cupbearer before, and it hasn't been a role that has brought her much joy. While it is a position of prestige, and shows she is a valued member of the household, it's not enough. Luckily, here, she isn't just there to oversee the celebrations of others, but to be celebrated herself.
Eomer ends the ceremonies by announcing her betrothal to Faramir. His justification for doing so is because of Theoden's love for Eowyn, which he uses to argue that Theoden wouldn't begrudge Eowyn's announcement being made at his funeral. He also notes how great the gathering before him is, greater than has ever been seen before. That Eomer wants to announce his sister's happy news before such an assembly, speaks of how much he wants to honour her.
Eomer certainly appears to have taken Gandalf's words on board. When he makes the announcement of Eowyn's betrothal, he says that Faramir asked for her hand, and Eowyn granted it, full willing.
He doesn't say anything about whether or not he gives his permission, (as her king and head of family, he probably was asked, but considering Eowyn and Faramir made their plans to wed with total confidence, you get the impression this was a matter of form, they were going to marry, Eomer disagreeing would be a complication, not a defeat), but instead emphasises how Eowyn has agreed to marry Faramir, full willing.
The final image we have of Eowyn can be a foil of that image of we have of her at the end of her first chapter in Two Towers. Once more, she is bidding farewell to a loved one as they depart Edoras. However, this time, she is embracing Merry before he leaves. She gives him a gift, that speaks of the bond of friendship that is now between them, and a remembrance of the time they rode together to battle, comrades in arms.
Compared to her formal parting from Theoden in Two Towers, this parting is full of warmth and intimacy. She and Eomer both hug Merry farewell, and when Merry leaves, Eowyn is left with both Eomer and Faramir, the two people she loves best, Faramir himself putting off his own duties in Gondor, to be near to Eowyn as she does her duty in Rohan.
Even the parting of Eowyn, Eomer and Merry, which could be a sad thing, is softened with Tolkien concluding "and so they parted for that time".
Their parting isn't forever, it's just for the moment. They will see each other again. Compared to the jarring juxtaposition of the brotherly army riding out, to Eowyn left alone to guard an empty hall, which created a sense of dread and foreboding, the final lines here at this parting fill us with warmth, with them all embracing, and leaves us with a promise that this parting isn't forever, and that the friends will all be reunited soon.
So, to summarise, Eowyn at first appears "doomed by the narrative." She is cold, stern, ghost like, and carries an aura of tragedy and dread.
Her doom she seems to carry through to fruition, and she is mourned accordingly, but the smallest spark of life remains in her, and in the causes of her despair being acknowledged, in the people in her life reaching out to her, making an effort to understand her, and in her and those around her making practical changes, the characters actively defy the narrative that has apparently doomed her, and together, through their combined efforts, Eowyn escapes her fate
Eowyn feels hopeless and trapped, and the people around her struggle to relate, and in fact many of them contribute; some un-knowingly, some knowingly (fucking Grima), to her depression. It first looks like a force greater than herself (the narrative) is causing her despair, and it cannot be overcome, but will instead lead to her destruction.
But actually, there is hope, and there are practical measures that can be put into place, to help her overcome her despair. Medical treatment, a support network, and a greater understanding from herself and from others of what she is going through, enable her to defy the narrative and find happiness.
#had to get this off my chest#lotr#lord of the rings#is it healthy to get engaged while still actively suicidal and as a victim of fallicide?#I mean def no#eowyn#faramir#eowyn of rohan#faramir x eowyn#if you have mean things to say about this please don’t#I’m extremely sensitive and can’t handle it#😎
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I do broadly love the LOTR films, but I do wish they used Gimli less for comic relief. They should have use Legolas.
#this#yes#my favorite is when he and Gimli are walking through Minas tirith the weirdo is just singing loudly while people stare at them#also when he waves goodbye to the nimrodel like a weirdo#I relate because I also wave goodbye to inanimate objects and bodies of water#it would have been so. fucking. funny. to let him be the goofy lil weirdo that he is#and maybe this is an unpopular opinion but I think they should have hired another (hotter) actor to play Gimli…#the dude is supposed to be in the prime of his life and is all poetic and suave… let Gimli be hot#lotr shitpost#lotr#the lord of the rings#gimli son of gloin#legolas greenleaf
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Why The Stranger Is Actually Saruman
A Deep Dive because I've been thinking about it Too Much TM
I need to get this off my chest because the Reddit bros saying that the Stranger is either a random blue wizard or Gandalf are driving me crazy, because from my perspective, they're so obviously wrong, and here's a compilation of all the clues and hints we've been given in Seasons 1-2 that prove why!! (Quick disclaimer: I've watched the PJ LOTR movies over 5 times, and have it pretty much memorized, so I'm coming from mainly a movie perspective - which the ROP showrunners have said they want the show to remain connected to, as shown by how they reference the films every chance they get. But I've googled the backstory of relevant characters from the sacred texts/lore to familiarize myself with it.) (Also spoilers for everything up to 2x04.)
The "Blatantly Obvious" Gandalf Clues (and why they're not that obvious)
The Stranger has a relationship with Harfoots -> Saruman was also familiar with Hobbits. "Your love of the Halflings' leaf has clearly slowed your mind", and his Isengard cellar is filled with Hobbit weed. He's also shown to have a dislike for them (perhaps if he was betrayed by Nori in later seasons).
"Grand-elf", "gand", "follow your nose" -> it's not hard to believe that these are surface level red herrings, they're barely of any plot consequence and are more like random remarks thrown in to throw you off the scent. If the Stranger is Saruman these would make sense, since Saruman was Gandalf's mentor, and the films bait-and-switched them before (see: the Gandalf the white scene where he literally had Christopher Lee's voice)
"They all but confirmed it at the end of Season 1" -> then why is there still a mystery in Season 2? The writers clearly want you to keep guessing who he is. If he was Gandalf, they would've just said he was.
Aaaand, that's about it on Gandalf evidence. Not a lot, is it? No, precious, not at all, the Reddit bros lied to us.
Now let's get into the Saruman theory, starting with the four big things that Gandalf doesn't have, that the Stranger does: Rhun, Sauron, Ents, and Palantirs.
1. Rhun
Gandalf never went to Rhun. (From the wiki: "Unlike Saruman, Olórin never took up permanent residence, and never went to the east, apparently restricting his activities to the Westlands of Middle-earth[.]") He has no business being there. For the writers to send him there would be a giant canon departure, and kind of pointless. But Saruman did! In his early days, he travelled to Rhun, stayed there awhile and then returned. The Stranger travelling to Rhun was the first dead giveaway.
2. Sauron
"Is it my task to stop the fire? Is it my task to face Sauron??" (2x04) Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm 99% sure Gandalf was never destined to face Sauron. In the films, he faced a Balrog and won, which already was an intense fight that killed him, and Gandalf indirectly facilitated Sauron's destruction by guiding Frodo, but he never directly confronted him, afaik. (Again, I might be wrong and missing lore info.) But we know Saruman was more powerful than Gandalf, and he was supposed to face Sauron, but ultimately ended up aligning with him. But in the show, the Stranger is supposed to face him, and if he was Gandalf, this would be a bizarre departure.
3. Ents, nature & trees
The Stranger is heavily associated with nature, but the biggest dead giveaway that he's Saruman was the scene in 2x04 where he's following the star map to a tree branch, and tries to break it off when the tree retaliates and sucks him in (very similar to what happened to Merry and Pippin in the films, with Tom Bombadil saying exactly what Treebeard said to free them, although that line was originally Tom's to begin with). But because of this scene, they're directly linking the Stranger to Ents & Fangorn. Which is fascinating, because Saruman, before he was evil in the TA, used to walk among the trees and befriended the Ents. In the films, his betrayal of Treebeard by cutting down the trees for his army is one of the key emotional moments of the film ("a wizard should know better!!"), and is what causes the destruction of Isengard. And in that scene, Stranger/Saruman tried to harm the tree, and the tree attacked him. Seems like foreshadowing to me.
4. Palantirs
Now, even though the Stranger hasn't been linked to Palantirs and Seeing Stones in the show, we know they're there, and characters have used them many times. We also know that Saruman has one in Isengard, and would make sense if ROP showed us how he got it. Gandalf never had a Palantir.
Some other theories and notes others have made:
The Stranger is established to have darkness in him and the potential for evil. The fireflies die, "I'm peril", having to remind himself that he's good. The opening line of the entire show is "Nothing is evil in the beginning."
An emphasis on names and the importance/power of a name -> naming the Stranger as Saruman will change our whole perspective of him. The writers want us to see him as good and loveable before putting that name burden on him. (Another show I love, The Chosen, did that for the character of Judas, a notoriously infamous traitor, calling him 'the Apprentice' for an entire episode before officially naming him.)
The Stranger's magic is super powerful. The conjuring of the sandstorm reminded me of Saruman's conjuring the snowstorm over the pass of Caradhras, in FOTR.
There's a moment where the Stranger's staff dissolves when he uses his magic, similar to the scene where Gandalf dissolves Saruman's staff in his hand.
The two towers theory: introducing Sauron at the end of Season 1, Saruman at the end of Season 2, so now both heads of the towers are in play.
"i can’t shake the feeling that the actor’s intonation is pretty much the midpoint of Ian McKellen’s Gandalf and Christopher Lee’s Saruman" (ntraumintraum on Reddit)
Daniel Wayman did an Irish lilt in his voice, that Gandalf doesn't have.
Saruman has a fascinating, tragic journey of going from good to evil, while Gandalf remains good through it all. The former is more compelling for a show like ROP that's built around tragic fates + Saruman's story is still mostly untold and mysterious.
In conclusion, if he is Gandalf, I'll be very disappointed, but can live with it. It would just be a huge missed opportunity, but as of now, I'm pretty convinced that the Stranger is Saruman, and the dark wizard is a bad blue wizard.
#this feels very correct#honestly haven’t thought about who the stranger is very much but this is so much more interesting and on brand with the show#I’m into it#saruman#the stranger#gandalf the grey#the rings of power#the lord of the rings#rings of power#rop meta#the stranger theory
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Bro that’s your future husband THIS IS SO EMBARRASSING FOR YOU
I don't see enough people talking about that one scen I. The hobbit movies where legolas was looking at the picture of gimli like:
"Who's this"
BUDDY, THATS THE GUY YOU GONNA SNEAK INTO THE UNDYING LANDS BRO
#pj shoulda had Legolas for this scene only it would have been perfect#but less mean because why was Legolas so cunty in the hobbit for like no reason#lord of the rings#lotr#legolas#gimli#the hobbit movies#the hobbit#gigolas#gimleaf
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This would have been fucking hilarious
One thing I think would have improved the hobbit movies is that Legolas should have been just a background cameo with zero lines but still in the film I think it would have been great cause you get a little Easter egg without destroying the film or his character!!!
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