#Flowey and Papyrus parallel each other | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

kaliawai512-v2 · 2 years ago

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So for those of you who read The Flowers Are Blooming, my unfinished Undertale fic ... here's where it was going to go.

I have to put out a HUGE thanks to @derangedchameleon. They recently read through the entire It's Raining series and left a ton of comments that made me revisit the story properly for the first time in years - which made me realize, hey, I've got notes on the rest of the series, maybe someone would be interested in reading them!

So here you go. This is the chapter summary for the rest of The Flowers are Blooming. This is NOT the end of the series, however - that will come with the plans for EXP, originally intended to be the final story in the trilogy.

Content warnings: intense violence (including vaguely-described torture), hints of suicidal thoughts, past torture and abuse

If anything doesn’t make sense, please feel free to drop me a message! I’ll do my best to add more details.

Chapter 12: Sans walks back to the lab, thinking about his relationship with this Papyrus and how he doesn’t know how to confront him about any of his questions—why is Papyrus friends with a flower, and why is a little white dog following him around—without spilling the beans on the fact that he’s the wrong Sans. When he arrives at the lab, he can’t find Alphys and goes downstairs to the True Lab, where he discovers the Amalgamates. Alphys finds him and is forced to explain what she did. Sans is horrified to realize that she used Gaster’s blueprints to do this. Then he realizes that Alphys must have pure SE—which he might be able to use to power the machine. He brushes off Alphys’s concern and leaves, with plans to come back for the SE later.

Chapter 13: Flowey is torturing Papyrus and getting bored with it, even as Papyrus begs him to stop and says he can help him. Flowey is frustrated that Papyrus never fights back properly and resets, greeting Papyrus again for the not-first time. He has apparently killed Papyrus fifty-five times now, but Papyrus has never killed him in return. Papyrus asks Flowey if he’s okay and Flowey lies, saying he is, before snapping that Papyrus never kills him. Papyrus says that Flowey is his friend, and when Flowey presses, Papyrus says that he believes being true to himself is strength, and so is always recognizing that you have a choice—looking uncomfortable when Flowey asks if he knew someone who didn’t think they had a choice. Flowey runs off.

Chapter 14: Flowey searches Snowdin for information as to where Papyrus came from. He asks residents and finds that no one knows where Sans and Papyrus lived before they appeared in Snowdin. They apparently showed up right around the “accident” with the Core—which no one seems to know much about either. Flowey then spots Sans heading to his personal lab and glimpses Sans’s notes, seeing something about parallel universes. He realizes that Sans and Papyrus might have come from another universe, and decides to tell Papyrus about his brother’s secret.

Chapter 15: Sans visits Alphys in the True Lab again. He’s been working on his machine—and sneaking SE from her stocks—and since he’s keeping her secret, she doesn’t question it. He brings her some dog food for the Amalgamates, even feeding one himself, wondering what kind of life it used to live and trying to comfort it in its pain. He finds himself exhausted by everything he’s been doing lately, as well as keeping all this from Papyrus. He boots up the machine that measures timelines and finds that there are a lot more, and a lot closer to each other, than anything he’s ever seen—showing that someone is actively creating them. He thinks it must be a human.

Chapter 16: Flowey is asking Papyrus a lot of questions, and Papyrus is a little confused by all of them. They’re talking about Hotland, and Papyrus brings up the houses there, referencing his own house. Flowey points out that he said he grew up in Snowdin. Papyrus corrects himself, but feels lost and unsure, saying that his old house “moved” and he isn’t sure where it used to be. Flowey keeps pressing into his past. Papyrus talks about having Dr. Japer, but again, gets lost in conflicting memories. Finally, as Flowey doesn’t let up, Papyrus gets very uncomfortable and changes the subject.

Flowey asks about Sans and gets Papyrus to admit that Sans is secretive, then brings up that Papyrus doesn’t seem sure about any of his past. Papyrus finds that he can’t remember a lot of details, including about Dr. Japer. Flowey suggests that he and Sans are from another world. Papyrus tries to deny it, throwing out reasons why that couldn’t be true, but Flowey keeps pointing out that things don’t match up that well—particularly Undyne and her lack of memories of their apparently-shared childhood. Flowey again points out that Sans doesn’t tell him things, suggesting that Sans thinks he’s an idiot. Papyrus tries to refute this and says that Sans is trying to protect him. Flowey suggests that Papyrus ask him. Papyrus says that Sans is happier if he thinks he doesn’t notice things, but Flowey still insists he try.

Chapter 17 (I actually finished this chapter!): Papyrus walks back home, thinking about everything that doesn’t make sense but also thinking that there has to be some kind of explanation. His memories are mixed up, and he thinks that his house could have been in Hotland, Waterfall, or even the Capital before Snowdin, but he doesn’t know why. He remembers Sans, though, always. When he gets home, he asks Sans, “WHERE DID WE COME FROM?” Sans is shocked and tries to brush off the question, clearly uncomfortable. Papyrus asks if he’s lying, saying that he thinks Sans knows the truth. He says that he knows there are things Sans doesn’t tell him; that he doesn’t tell him anything, and there must be a good reason. Sans tries to say it isn’t important, but Papyrus says that if it wasn’t important, Sans could tell him about it. Sans, again, says it doesn’t matter, then Papyrus says, “WE’RE NOT FROM SNOWDIN, ARE WE, SANS?”

Sans keeps trying to dodge questions, but Papyrus points out that Sans isn’t from Snowdin, at least, and that they’re the same age and he remembers them growing up together, but he also remembers other places. His mind gets foggy, and he thinks it’s been like that for a while. He tries to get Sans to tell him the truth, saying that he talks to him like he doesn’t know anything. Sans says, “i’m doing this for you, papyrus.” Papyrus says, “HOW CAN IT BE FOR ME IF I DON’T WANT IT?” Sans says he’s keeping Papyrus safe, and Papyrus asks what he’s scared is going to hurt him. Sans shouts, “everything!” and says that he can’t let something happen to Papyrus again. Papyrus tries to get Sans to tell him what happened, and when Sans tries to say that they’re happy here, Papyrus says that Sans isn’t happy. Sans calls Papyrus “Pap,” which Papyrus suddenly remembers, searching his memories and, again, finding them foggy. He says he doesn’t know what he remembers, and it scares him. He mentions Flowey, and Sans asks who he’s talking about. Before Papyrus can reply, Flowey reloads.

The world restarts to Papyrus coming up to greet Flowey. Flowey, internally, realizes that he’s been missing out on two of the most interesting people in the Underground, and that finally, he won’t be bored. As the two begin their training, Flowey hears a faint, high-pitched bark.

Chapter 18: Flowey watches the brothers for the next week, but gets no more answers. Flowey is talking to Papyrus, and Papyrus tells him how he thinks Sans puts on a show for him, and wonders if there are any people he’s honest with. Flowey asks if Papyrus wishes Sans told him things, and Papyrus says he wishes it didn’t make Sans sad to tell him things—but that he would rather be worried than Sans be sad, because Papyrus is strong enough to be worried, but Sans is “ALWAYS A LITTLE SAD.” Like he misses someone but won’t say who. Papyrus wishes he could be there for Sans and that knew what he was missing. Flowey asks if Papyrus is upset about Sans not telling him things, but Papyrus says he can wait until Sans is ready. Flowey presses, asking what if Sans is never ready—what if Sans thinks Papyrus is too stupid to know the truth—and Papyrus is uncomfortable, but says Sans will tell him someday. Flowey thinks that Papyrus seems to have come to terms with Sans’s lying like he didn’t in the previous timeline. Papyrus seems to have partially remembered another timeline, and that the only other person who seems to retain a hint of memories is Sans.

Chapter 19: Flowey continues to do experiments on Papyrus: killing him, saying different things to him, and so on. But Papyrus always bounces back, and Flowey gets no more useful information—Papyrus doesn’t remember the bad things Flowey does, or at least doesn’t speak up about them, but he does remember the hints he got about Sans. Flowey finds Papyrus hanging out with Undyne, who he hasn’t talked to in quite a few runs. Papyrus sees Flowey and invites him to hang out, too, but instead, Flowey attacks Undyne. Papyrus thinks that he’s just playing, but then Flowey kills her. Papyrus cries over her dust, and Flowey wonders whether Papyrus will finally fight back, now that Flowey has killed someone else. But Papyrus stays there, mourning his friend. Flowey, angry, gets Papyrus’s attention, asking whether he’s going to kill him in return, but Papyrus just asks why Flowey killed her. Flowey says he did it because he felt like it, and the only way Papyrus can avenge her is by killing him, too. Papyrus says that if he kills Flowey, Undyne won’t come back, and Flowey will be dead, too. He doesn’t want more people to die. Sans approaches, and when Papyrus hears him, he looks to Flowey, silently begging him to run away before his brother sees him. Flowey does leave, but just feels more frustrated.

Chapter 20: Flowey doesn’t check in on Papyrus again, and instead reloads to a few days earlier. Papyrus comes to meet him, and Flowey asks for a tour around Snowdin. Flowey attacks the bunny shopkeeper, slowly torturing her, then invites Papyrus to “show the lady what you can do.” Papyrus tries to convince Flowey to let her down, but Flowey kills her. He then goes on to kill more people, then Undyne. He goes on a rampage while Papyrus runs after him and tries to convince him to stop, but Flowey keeps going, determined to make Papyrus understand that he won’t change, and to give up on him. He finally snaps and shouts at Papyrus, telling him the only way to make him stop is to kill him. Papyrus says he doesn’t want to kill Flowey, and Flowey asks if his life is worth more than everyone else’s. Papyrus says he wants to help Flowey feel better. Flowey screams at him that his friends are dead and he has to kill him. Papyrus asks, “DO YOU WANT TO DIE, FLOWEY?” When Flowey is silent, Papyrus asks whether he’s not happy being alive, and whether he’s hurting people so they’ll hurt him back. Flowey tries to argue, and is about to kill Papyrus all over again, when Sans shows up and kills him with a blaster.

Chapter 21: Sans knows something is wrong, but not exactly what or how to solve it. He’s been having something like deja vu, feeling like he’s lived one day a hundred times. He thinks about when he attacked Gaster and did more damage than his attacks should be worth, but hasn’t revisited that since—now, it feels like it could be important. He takes another look at the timelines and sees that while some of them curve or taper off or merge, others suddenly stop. Some have already ended. He the machine ahead a few months, further than it can usually view, and sees it splitting into millions of different lines. The line they split off from is his current timeline. Alphys interrupts him, and he leaves, stopping her from seeing what he’s doing. He takes the last of the SE from the lab and goes back to his home lab. He adds the SE to the SE core, but finds it not even half full. Not enough to make the machine work. Sans attacks the walls around him in desperate grief, realizing that he truly is stuck here. He tells himself that he has to accept that, and protect the brother he has left.

Chapter 22: Papyrus is talking to Flowey and tells him he’s glad they’re friends. Flowey, having grown frustrated with Papyrus’s determined hopefulness, laughs at him, saying that Papyrus is lying to himself in thinking they’re friends. He’s only here because he’s bored and Papyrus is entertaining. He says that Undyne doesn’t take him seriously, and when Papyrus says that Undyne is training him and sees potential in him, Flowey blurts out that she’s stalling, and he’s too fragile to handle the truth about the Royal Guard. He says that Undyne thinks he’s an idiot, and so does Sans. Sans hides everything from him, thinking that he’s not strong enough, thinking that he’s too mentally young to handle it. He says that all Papyrus has are people who feel sorry for him and won’t push him away because they’ll feel bad, and that Papyrus isn’t worth friends, or anything at all. Papyrus says that he loves Sans, and Undyne, and Flowey, too. He asks whether it’s bad to lie to the people you love, bad to tell them you’re okay when you’re not to stop them worrying, bad to say it so much that you almost believe it yourself. He wonders if Sans would be mad at him if he knew. Flowey is taken aback. Later, he focuses more on Sans, seeing that Sans knows something is wrong but doesn’t know what to do about it.

Chapter 23: Sans practices his KR abilities and keeps researching the timelines. Alphys has made Sans a sparring dummy that will show him how much damage he inflicts so he can improve, though she doesn’t know what it’s for. Sans is walking through Waterfall, on the way to do more readings, when he sees a door in the wall where the room holding the machine used to be. Hesitant and scared—knowing the machine is no longer there—he reaches for the door, but stops before he can open it, determined not to drag himself or Papyrus back into this mess. He runs away, and in the corner of his eye, he sees a small, white, furry shape nearby. He runs back into his house and collapses against the door, sitting there until Papyrus finds him and carries him to bed.

Chapter 24: Flowey goes on another murder run, less out of anger and more out of letting his curiosity take over, and he kills mindlessly. He avoids getting caught, simply so he’ll avoid being stopped. He runs into Monster Kid, who doesn’t recognize him as the killer. He gets to ready to kill them, only for MK’s sibling, an almost identical monster with slightly different features, to approach. MK calls for help, and Flowey continues his torment. MK then yells for them to run and get help, and though reluctant to leave, the sibling finally does so, running back through the Core. He kills MK by throwing them into the Core, and resets shortly after. When he goes back, he looks around for MK, but can’t find a trace or mention of them. But he can find their sibling, who is now known by the nickname of MK and doesn’t seem to be missing a sibling at all. Flowey is confused but fascinated.

Chapter 25: Sans wakes up to Papyrus yelling at him, which is familiar at first until he realizes that Papyrus sounds afraid. He finds Papyrus crying, saying something is wrong with Flowey. He says that they have to help him because he’s killing people—he’s already killed Undyne, and is trying to kill everyone else in Snowdin. They both go outside and find Flowey. Sans wants to run, but Papyrus stays, and Sans stays with him, properly seeing Flowey for the first time—at least that he remembers. Papyrus tries to talk Flowey down, saying that they can figure out what the problem is and fix it. Flowey tries to kill Papyrus with a vine, but Sans knocks him out of the way. Papyrus’s leg is broken, but they’re both alive, and Flowey starts ranting at Papyrus that everyone in Snowdin is dead, and he’s going to keep going. Sans interrupts him with a blaster, and Flowey is shocked to find his HP dropping quickly. Sans shortcuts him and Papyrus out of there, and is horrified to find them in front of the door in the Snowdin forest. He pounds on the door, begging the lady to let them in. He doesn’t think she will, since she’s never opened the door, but just as he starts to pass out, the door opens, and the last thing he sees is Toriel’s face.

Chapter 26: Sans wakes up tucked into a bed with Papyrus next to him. He cries with relief, realizing that even though this isn’t his Papyrus, he’s still his brother, and Sans was terrified of losing him. The door opens and Toriel comes in to greet them. She checks on their well-being, explaining that she healed them both. Sans is surprised she came to help, but Toriel says that he’s her friend, and worth more than her vows to stay in the Ruins. She gets them some food while Papyrus keeps sleeping. She asks what was attacking them, and Sans says a flower killed everyone in Snowdin, and was going to head on to Waterfall and beyond. Toriel is horrified and silent for a while. She then says that she’s been in the Ruins for a hundred years, and she told herself she would never leave again because she lost hope for monsters. She couldn’t stay with them while they became the same sort of people who put monsters underground in the first place. She thought monsters were still like that, until she met Sans, who changed her mind.

Before they can say anything more, Papyrus briefly wakes up, saying Flowey’s name. When he falls asleep again, Toriel spends a minute caring for him, and Sans watches, briefly wondering if they could stay with her. But then Toriel gets to her feet, saying that she’s going to stop Flowey. Sans begs her not to leave, saying that she’ll die out there. Toriel says that she’s willing to die to save her people. Sans continues to beg her, and when Toriel says that people are dying, Sans says, “who cares about them?” desperate not to let someone he cares about die. Toriel goes anyway, and Sans can’t bring himself to leave Papyrus. For a while, he just sits there, before he decides to go look around the house. He thinks about the fact that he’s been making knock-knock jokes with the lost queen for six years, and how this house looks like something his Papyrus would have made, if he’d had the chance. He finds himself regretting what he said, realizing that he sounds like Gaster, and realizing everyone who he was willing to let die. Then Flowey pops up beside him and Sans fires a blast, but Flowey doesn’t look surprised. Before the blast can hit, Flowey reloads.

Chapter 27: Sans feels, more deeply than ever, that something is wrong. Nothing has changed in the timeline readings—except for a nearby timeline that has wiggled, changed, and faded. His scientist history tells him he can’t trust gut feelings, but his experience tells him it’s important—though he still doesn’t know how to figure any of it out. Sans goes to the lab and takes out the determination—concentrated SE, focused on one attribute. He’s vaguely horrified by what Alphys has created, and starts seeing similarities to Gaster until he stops himself. He takes out a syringe and, even though he knows that this might be a terrible idea, he injects himself with some of the determination. It hurts terribly, but the pain slowly fades, and as he goes back to normal, he sees a flash of a memory of Gaster, having just finished injecting him with SE.

Chapter 28: Flowey has let this timeline run for longer than any other, having reset several times since the run where he almost killed Sans and Papyrus. He still doesn’t know why Sans is so hard to kill, and why he can apparently teleport. He doesn’t think that Sans can actually remember resets, but Sans seems to know more than he should about the resets regardless—and this time, Flowey can tell that Sans is acting differently. Papyrus breaks Flowey out of his thoughts, asking whether he ever thinks that someone is watching them—someone they can’t see. A person, who isn’t like other people, who knows things about them they don’t know themselves, and who makes them do good and bad things. Flowey sees a flash of a white dog before he asks Papyrus what he means. Papyrus says he gets that feeling sometimes, accompanying him, nudging him along. Flowey, frustrated, wonders why he’s been spending so much time with Papyrus, then decides he can at least run one more experiment. He attacks, but doesn’t kill, Papyrus, then runs off.

Chapter 29: Sans is just getting off a call with Undyne where she shouted at him for leaving his post. He’s hesitating before actually heading there when he hears Alphys scream and runs over to her. Alphys, panicking, manages to tell him that Undyne is dead—and so is everyone in Snowdin and Waterfall. Sans demands to know if she’s seen Papyrus, but Alphys hasn’t. Sans runs out of the lab, searching Waterfall, finding dust mixed in with mud. He realizes that he’s seen this before—not like he experienced it, but like another him did. He considers what happened when the Core overloaded, how Papyrus and Alphys had glitched and faded, but Sans stayed himself. Then he remembers the determination that he took. He starts to see the world differently, but pushes the thought aside and keeps going. He trips over a small white dog when going back into Snowdin and can’t find any evidence that Papyrus is gone yet. Despite that, he knows that Papyrus will likely be next on Flowey’s list, and heads after Flowey to stop him.

Chapter 30: Flowey thinks that a dead world is quieter than he expected. He knows, with an instinct he can’t explain, that everyone is dead except for two remaining souls. Asgore and Toriel are both gone, and he felt nothing killing them. He picks the judgment hall to meet Sans in, and the two of them fight, Sans killing Flowey over and over, just like he does in the game. During the fight, Sans seems to master his use of KR, determined to stop Flowey from finding and killing Papyrus. However, Flowey finally finds an opening and kills Sans. Before he can properly enjoy the victory, Papyrus runs in, horrified at his brother’s death but desperate to stop Flowey. Flowey attacks him anyway, but before he can kill him, the world begins to flicker, then almost stop—like pausing a videotape. Papyrus’s image begins to shift, until it isn’t Papyrus there, but someone else: a tall, thin skeleton, seeming to melt together into semi-solid goop.

The skeleton accuses Flowey of hurting his sons. He says that he tried to help, but Flowey kept killing them—and the skeleton let them get hurt before. Hurt them himself, so many times, and ruined everything. Flowey begins to feel afraid when the skeleton says he “won’t let it happen again.” The world seems to skip, breaking into lines of code, and the skeleton goes on, saying he “found a way in. My boy … bright and happy, light of the world …” Flowey begs him to stop, but even when he tries to load his save, nothing happens. The skeleton continues to stare at him, and Flowey gets more afraid. The skeleton says that Flowey will do all this again if he doesn’t stop him. But before he can kill Flowey, something flashes in the corner, and they both see a small, white dog by the wall, watching them. After a long pause, the skeleton threatens Flowey: “Leave them be. Or I will find you. I will stop you. I will not let you go.” Flowey opens his eyes to darkness, overwhelming and smothering, but then wakes up in Asgore’s garden, at his original save point.

Chapter 31: Flowey doesn’t do anything of note for two weeks after he wakes up, thinking instead on the skeleton that he saw before he died. He knows that someone must have made Sans and Papyrus, but Flowey doesn’t remember anyone who could have. He remembers the world breaking into lines of code, glitching and shifting, like a computer, or a game. He starts thinking of his saves, reloads, and resets, and wonders if his whole life has really just been a game. A programmed loop on repeat. He wonders if that means he’s the one playing the game, but then wonders who was playing it before him. He doesn’t understand this, and can’t decide whether he hates or loves it. But he keeps going.

After a month, he introduces himself to Papyrus, but just observes instead of trying to change things. He finds himself being careless, and one day, Sans finds him. Flowey tries to greet him casually, but Sans just says, “that’s a nice little speech you got there. how many times have you used it so far?” He says that Flowey let people see him with Papyrus, and Flowey asks and confirms that Sans knows him. Sans says that Flowey is the anomaly and has been causing the fluctuations in the timelines. Flowey, happy at being found out, asks if that’s what he calls him. Sans asks if he’s been having fun, and Flowey says “some, here and there.” Sans replies, eyelights dark, “w i t h m y b r o t h e r?”

Flowey accuses Sans of not keeping a close enough eye on Papyrus, and Sans tries to attack him. But Flowey is experienced now, and easily fights back, saying that it doesn’t matter how hard Sans works: no one can win against Flowey. Flowey waits for the new skeleton to show up, but he doesn’t. So he taunts Sans, saying that he hasn’t figured out what will happen if he dies first—instead of Papyrus—and wonders how Papyrus will react to losing him. Flowey gets ready to snap Sans’s neck, but before he can, everything burns, and he flies back. He recognizes the pain as a blaster, but definitely not Sans’s. He turns around to see Papyrus, having attacked Flowey to defend his brother. He tells Flowey not to come any closer, and that he won’t let him hurt Sans. Flowey is so shocked by Papyrus actually fighting back that Papyrus is able to grab Sans and run away.

Chapter 32: Sans and Papyrus go back to their house, because they can’t think of anywhere else to go. Sans watches for Flowey, but when he doesn’t see him, he turns to Papyrus, who has broken down in tears. Sans then realizes that Papyrus used blasters—which only his Papyrus was given by Gaster. Papyrus just shakes his head and says that he didn’t want to hurt Flowey, but Flowey was going to hurt Sans, and Papyrus couldn’t let that happen. Sans asks if Papyrus has used the blasters before, or if he remembers where he got them, and Papyrus can’t decide whether he remembers—but when they showed up, he knew how to use them. He thinks he remembers using them, but it also feels like that never happened. He asks why he remembers things that didn’t happen, but still feel real. He’s scared. Papyrus starts to reach out for a hug, and Sans immediately hugs him back. They hold each other for a long time.

Papyrus says that Sans knows things that he doesn’t tell Papyrus. Sans agrees. Papyrus asks why he doesn’t tell him, and when Sans can’t respond, Papyrus says that it feels like Sans has always been sad—but sometimes, he remembers him being happy, with people he’s never met. Sans asks whether Papyrus remembers coming to Snowdin, and Papyrus isn’t sure. Sans tells him that he used to do research on parallel universes, where things were different—including their dad. Papyrus asks if their dad was good, and Sans—remembering the good moments, but also how everything went wrong—says “he was good enough.” Papyrus says that their dad isn’t here anymore, and asks whether he liked him. Sans says that their dad loved him.

Papyrus says that they’re not from the same universe, and asks what happened to the original him. Sans tries to brush it off, but Papyrus insists, saying that he has memories he can’t explain, and he just wants to know the truth. He cries, and Sans apologizes for lying—saying that he didn’t want Papyrus to leave him, because he failed him. He tells Papyrus that Gaster stole him from another universe, babbling about how he knew he wasn’t his brother but couldn’t bear to let him go, that he loves him and just wants him to be happy, even if he goes back home in the end. Papyrus tells Sans that he is home. He’s confused and scared, but he’s with Sans. Sans says he’s the wrong Sans, and Papyrus says then he must be the wrong Papyrus. Sans protests, and Papyrus says then they’re both the right “each other.” Sans says Papyrus deserves so much better than this, and Sans failed him. Papyrus says that Undyne said you can only fail if you stop trying. Even if she’s not the Undyne he remembers, she’s still Undyne, and Sans is still Sans. Papyrus remembers many different lives, but in every one, he loves his brother. Sans says he loves him, too.

The two of them talk for a long time, sharing what they remember and what happened in different universes. Sans realizes that, when Papyrus flickered back at the Core, parts of all Papyrus’s—including his own—merged together with him. After a while, Papyrus says that Sans seemed happier when he didn’t know things, so he pretended he didn’t—but he doesn’t like lying. Sans keeps talking about all the details, all the science, even Dr. Japer—who seems to make Papyrus nervous. Finally, Papyrus falls asleep, but Sans stays up, waiting for this all to disappear. He thinks about why he remained stable, even as Papyrus merged with his other selves, and thinks it must be related to the SE. He keeps waiting, but the world around him remains.

Chapter 33: Papyrus wakes up an hour later and hugs Sans again before making “breakfast spaghetti.” They spend a bit more time together before going to their sentry posts, and for the next few days, things continue like that. They get to know each other better, sharing parts of their lives, and it’s very bittersweet. But one day, the two of them look for Flowey, and finally find him. Instead of attacking, they sit down and talk. Sans asks Flowey about the resets, and when Flowey points out that Sans knew, Sans says that he just knew something was wrong and had the means to look into it. Flowey says Sans is useless for letting Papyrus die all those times, and though Papyrus tries to argue, Sans doesn’t. He says that he knows no matter how hard he tries, nothing will help, because nothing he does matters. He says that Flowey is going to reset and make him forget either way, and he’s not sure whether it’s worse to remember or worse that he can never make any progress.

Flowey asks what both of them are, saying they don’t make sense. Sans brushes him off. He says that he knows things are going to end, in at least some timelines, and once they end, that timeline stops. Flowey says that he wouldn’t do that because it would mean killing himself, which he already tried and failed to do. Sans asks who ends those timelines, if it wasn’t him—Flowey says no one. Sans points out that Flowey isn’t the first to control timelines, and he won’t be the last. He says that in the timelines Flowey left behind, his brother will go on, and everyone else is still happy. Papyrus holds Sans’s hand in silent reassurance rather than trying to argue, and both of them tell Flowey he can reset, because they’re ready. Flowey asks why, when they could still spend more time together in this timeline. Sans says that one version of them will stay here, together, even as Flowey moves on, and they can keep making things better—but another Sans and Papyrus have to go. Flowey finally gives up on arguing, and as he resets, Sans and Papyrus hold each other tight.

Chapter 34: Sans wakes up to Papyrus shouting at him and heads off to a normal day in a new timeline. Over the next few months, Sans sees someone is manipulating the timeline from the machine, but feels like he’s somehow learned this before—and forgotten it. This demotivates him, thinking that there’s no point researching further if he’s just going to forget again. He helps Papyrus make his battle body and hears about his new friend, who is apparently a talking flower. All the while, a small white dog makes more and more appearances. In the final scene, Flowey visits the Ruins, thinking about everything he’s done, the experiments he’s run, everything he’s learned and all the questions still unanswered. He thinks about the other skeleton and who he might have been in relation to Sans and Papyrus. But before he can think further, he hears something fall nearby, and finds that a human child has fallen from the surface. He smiles to himself, ready to welcome them underground.

#undertale #my fic #the flowers are blooming #it's raining series

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ao3feed-undertale1 · 1 year ago

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Merging Timelines

read it on AO3 at https://archiveofourown.org/works/56240452 by Werecat1234 What if the Underground started glitching? What if whenever two parallel Timelines, one Undertale, another an Alternate Timeline, Reset at the same time, a bit of the Alternate Timeline leaked into Undertale? What if there were side effects of this happening, like nightmares each time a synchronized Reset occurred? And what if Sans was effected worse than the others with the effects much more severe and some other effects others don't have? What if there were three Alternate Timelines parallel to Undertale, and what if those Alternate Timelines just so happened to be Dusttale, Horrortale, and Something New (AKA Killertale)? The chapters are prone to editing due to me forgetting to write details, me remembering a piece of lore that I needed to include, details about characters, or just typo corrections. Please let me know in the comments so I can correct it! Otherwise, please comment on this because I'd love to read your feedback on it and comments mean a ton to me! Thank you and happy reading! (Cross posted on Quotev under the same title and username) Words: 3899, Chapters: 1/?, Language: English Fandoms: Undertale (Video Game) Rating: General Audiences Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence Characters: Sans (Undertale), Killer Sans - Character, Dust, Dust Sans, Killer - Character, Horror - Character, horror sans, Frisk (Undertale), Chara (Undertale), Undertale Player, Asgore Dreemurr, Toriel (Undertale), Flowey (Undertale), Alphys (Undertale), Undyne (Undertale), Asriel Dreemurr, Muffet (Undertale), Grillby (Undertale), Papyrus (Undertale) Relationships: Alphys/Undyne (Undertale), Asgore Dreemurr/Toriel Additional Tags: Killer Sans (Undertale) - Freeform, Dissociative Identity Disorder, Dusttale Sans (Undertale), Horrortale Sans (Undertale), Alternate Universe - Dusttale (Undertale), Alternate Universe - Horrortale (Undertale), Alternate Universe - Something New (Undertale), Alternate Universe - Killertale (Undertale), Reader is not Frisk or Chara (Undertale), Reader Is Not Frisk (Undertale), Angst, Hurt/Comfort, Trauma, Nightmares, Hallucinations, Insanity, Possession, Chaos, Bad Puns, Puns & Word Play, Sans (Undertale) Makes Puns, Affectionate Insults, Insults, Badass Sans (Undertale), Sans (Undertale) Remembers Resets, Undertale Saves and Resets, Flowey Remembers Resets (Undertale), Frisk Remembers Resets (Undertale), Fanon and Canon Put in a Blender, Alternate Timelines, Crossing Timelines, Timelines, Humor, Other Additional Tags to Be Added, Disbelief Papyrus (Mentioned), Younger Brother Papyrus (Undertale), Big Brother Sans (Undertale), Character Study, Character Development, Flashbacks read it on AO3 at https://archiveofourown.org/works/56240452

#ao3feed #ao3undertalefeed #fanfic #undertale #undertale-fanfic

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stainedglassthreads · 1 year ago

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Yeah, I've been suspecting for a little while that Spade King was either going to get redeemed later on, or at least be shown to be a significantly more complicated character akin to Flowey. My reasons for thinking so were a lot simpler tho:

First, he's the first Area Boss, he's being kept around in a place the Player can easily access him, and we're getting new content with him. That means, compared to later Area Bosses, King is the Area Boss we will spend the absolute most time with, giving us the most time to really dig into his character and observe changes.

Second...Toby Fox doesn't really write 'flat' characters. The idea that anyone in Undertale is 'pure good' or 'pure evil' doesn't really sit right with me. Each character has more going on than what appears on the surface, even if with some you have to do a little digging. Toriel presents herself as the perfect mother but is implied deeply isolated and traumatized and depressed by stuff like the Winter Alarm Clock dialogue, Papyrus is confident and prideful but he's also altruistic, compassionate, and insecure, everything about Flowey, Sans, and Asgore...

Speaking of. The way you explored this topic made me compare Asgore and Spade King a LOT in my head. Like, I know people are already aware that Asgore and Spade King are foils and parallels, but this just opened my mind to one I hadn't considered previously:

They both want to give their people new purpose.

In Undertale, it's implied that monsters fall down and die when they're left depressed. So Asgore declaring war on humanity, giving his people HOPE, is sometimes read as his attempt to give them new purpose to keep them out of depression. (And, regardless of other problems it causes, it WORKS.) As you discuss here, Spade King is trying to give the Darkners a non-Lightner-related purpose, and is generally unsurprised and judgmental if the Player fails to recruit all the Darkners from Cyber Kingdom.

That brought to mind another thought: the ways in which they are opposites. It's not just 'Asgore is a sweet man and a good dad who was dealt a bad hand and Spades King is an evil irredeemable person.' It's not just 'one is beloved by his people and the other is hated,' either. Their relationships with their purposes, as well as how the narrative introduces them, is presented in completely opposite ways!

In a neutral of Pacifist run after a Neutral run where you kill Flowey, Asgore actually says a lot of really interesting stuff that reveals things about his character. Much like Toriel, Asgore actually briefly offers to adopt Frisk and let them live happily with him. He also admits that he doesn't actually want power, he doesn't want war, he doesn't want to kill anyone. Maybe he cared about vengeance once, but that time is long, long past--he does this to keep his people going, even if it causes him to hate himself. Meanwhile Spade King seems to completely, genuinely, wholeheartedly believe in his goals. Now, this might be because the Knight and the Fountain were pretty recent events, while Asgore lost his wife and children some time ago. But I don't think it's just that--remember, the Kingdom of Monsters was revitalized by the declaration of war, while Card Kingdom seems to mostly be doing this out of fear of their king, and will rebel against him whether they like the Lightners or not.

In addition to this, the way Asgore and Spade King are slowly introduced is completely opposite! In Undertale, Asgore is the final major boss that we meet--yes, Asriel or Sans is the TRUE final boss, but we meet them both much, much earlier, while Asgore only appears in the final area. Before then, he's built up as different characters give different impressions of him--'Asgore' is described by Toriel and Undyne as awful warmonger who wants to collect human souls to become a God, while 'the King' is described by Papyrus and his subjects as being a 'big fluffy pushover'. Eventually you realize both individuals are the same person, and that whatever either of you want, you both have no choice but to fight for your wishes. And then you learn Asgore is a gentle, kind, severely depressed man.

Spade King, however, is the FIRST Area's Boss. There's some build-up as we talk with his subjects and Lancer, sure. But we meet him way, way, way earlier than we ever meet Asgore, and he explicitly tells you that to the Lightners, 'I'm the bad guy.' Later on in Chapter 2, as you say in the analysis, he's mellowed out a lot in his cell, and either expresses concern for Lancer, or has his worldview about Lightners reinforced, which he gets judgey about. (In a kind of Flowey/Chara-like way, might I note. Slight vibes of Flowey calling you out, wondering if some of the monsters you killed could've been someone else's Toriel.)

So! All that to say, I do agree that it seems very very likely Spade King will slowly undergo a redemption arc, or at least be revealed to be a significantly more complicated individual with some good points. To quote one of my favorite songs from the most delightfully morally grey character in musical theatre history: "You're so nice. You're not good, you're not bad, you're just nice. I'm not good, I'm not nice, I'm just right. I'm the witch, you're the world!'

Final end-note. Even if Spade King weren't getting redeemed, I'd still be ecstatic to see him developed further. It's good to be reminded that abusers and other awful people are, in fact, people. Otherwise one makes themself ignorant to the reality that people you like can be abusive or spout harmful and toxic rhetoric. Parents who love their children and want only good things for them can also be abusive or neglectful, unfortunately it's not mutually exclusive in this reality and abusive parents will often say things like 'I'm doing this to help you!' or 'I only want what's best for you!'

This theory hinges a lot on that Spade King used to be 'a good dad'. But additionally I think idea that Spade King used to be better father, ruler, and person, but was then affected by things like the Knight and the Fountain which caused him to treat Lancer and his subjects worse, only for him to later get better as the Fun Gang slowly proves his worldview wrong and shows him where he messed up, could be a really cool and potentially realistic and well-handled depiction of an actual abuser improving as a person! Most abusers don't hurt people around them because they think to themselves 'ohoho, I like pain and causing it!' Some certainly do appreciate the power and control. But some are just ignorant to the hurt their words and actions cause people, too, while being utterly convinced that they're in the right. It could be a mirror to a situation like, a person with healthy beliefs and self-awareness would take out their stress on a hobby or something, but a less self-aware person begins taking it out verbally on their kid.

Suffice to say! I do genuinely think Spade King will get better if he sees how he was wrong and there ARE good Lightners, and perhaps he'll teach Ralsei and Kris and Susie and Noelle some valuable lessons about purpose, however good or bad he may have been in the past.

Why I believe Spade King will be redeemed

The Spade King is a... controversial character to say the least. From what I've seen, opinions of him range from a complete monster to an abusive douche with little leeway.

So, making a post about how this villain will be redeemed in future chapters may seem like a slap in the face. Let it be known that none of this is to upset real survivors of abuse, but instead it is to highlight the many indicators I feel show that Spade King is not beyond redemption.

I personally have had this theory since around when chapter 2 came out, and time has only solidified it, but this is the first time I actually got the confidence to post it.

That being said, let's get into the evidence.

THE FOUNTAIN

In the 6th anniversary stream for Undertale, Fangamer played through an edited version of Deltarune with Toby Fox making comments about development, the characters etc.

When facing the Spade King, Fangamer talked about how they hoped Spade King had been a good dad 'before the other mouth grew in'.

Toby Fox then says this;

'I mean, I think that fountain definitely changed his behaviour. For sure.'

This quote is stated around the 3 hour mark of the livestream video below.

So what does this mean? You may want to argue that Toby was not be literal when he made this statement, and that the fountain was a simple temptation instead of something that directly effected his behaviour. But then there's the queen...

The queen seems to have also experienced this fountain brought phenomena despite only wanting to use it to serve the Lightners instead of oppose.

She threatens and attempts to kill the Lightners. She establishes a regime significantly more strict then the last. She won't stop going on about the Knight. These are all things the King does as well.

It seems that the fountain abstracts the behaviour of their respective rulers for the sake of the Knight.

Okay, so the fountain impacts the King's behaviour, great. Doesn't change the fact that he threatened his son, and refuses to apologise or acknowledge his wrong doing now the fountain is closed.

Well, that leads me onto the next part...

HIS SON

Let's immediately establish one thing; the Chaos King does care for his son. While how genuine that care is is debated by the fandom, I would like to make the case that he was a good dad and does want Lancer to be happy.

First of all is the quote about the fountain that Toby made in the anniversary stream, which was a reply to a comment about how Fangamer hoped that he was a good dad.

Replying then seems to indicate that the fountain did impact his ability to be a good father.

More importantly is his dialogue in jail.

Here, he asked directly if his son is happy, in hesitant, even reserved manner. This is in direct contrast to how he mocks the Lightners with his boisterous grin or cruel frown.

Remember when he was yelling that he'll 'KILL ALL OF YOU' while his subjects dragged him away? An insurrection led by his son, who he called a traitor? Despite this, he seems to hold no ill will towards his son or his fellow darkners (we'll get to that). This behaviour I believe was caused by the fountain, thus the attitude change.

And yes, I do acknowledge that he has lied for sympathy before (his act before Ralsei healed him in chapter 1), but this is different. There is no reason to lie at this point; there's no way they would believe him.

He also admits that if he HAD let his son go, Lancer would have just... bounced. He then calls his son a bouncy little pumpkin. This line is notably similar to a line right after Susie casts pacify on him, calling her a 'sweet little pumpkin', again hinting that he was a good dad before the fountain and his love towards Lancer isn't a lie.

'But' you may argue, 'Lancer was afraid! He knew his son was scared of him but kept threatening anyways!'

Which is a valid point, and is obviously horrible.

BUT combined with the fountain being an impact for his decisions, I think it is also a valid idea that there's more to it than 'The Spade King is abusive'.

Both the Queen and King are callous when it comes to the opinion and wellbeing of others. Queen spends the entirety of Chapter 2 attempting to force Noelle to do as she says, even threatening to kill her classmates (and crush) for the sake of her goal.

What King does is similar, making Lancer watch as his friends get killed because he didn't do as he said. It's cruel, yes, but this is another case where you can argue the fountain may have led to this mutual behaviour.

(You may argue that the Queen has the excuse of being a computer who isn't completely in tune with peoples emotions. This argument doesn't really make sense because she actively uses Noelle's emotions against her in a way that shows she understands how upset it makes her.)

I do believe that Spade King knew his son was upset and still went along with it. This post isn't some elongated argument for Spade King's sainthood.

But I do have to say, him being aware and still going along with it may explain why he's hesitant to talk about Lancer in his jail cell. He knows he messed up and is feeling guilty post-fountain, he's just too prideful to up and say it to the face of the enemy. What he did is not a show of Spade King's abusive inhernet nature but an example of the fountain clouding his full judgement at that moment.

Also, you may argue that Spade King was neglectful of his son, leaving him to Rouxls Kaard to be cared for. I do believe that there has been a bit of exaggeration on this point. Yes, he does put his son in the care of his employees perhaps more than he should, but he's also straight up a King. He's a busy guy.

'Oh, but he doesn't feed him, the poor boy is starving!'

Honestly, my big question is why he's cooking in the first place. He's a King, he has subjects literally fanning his son and he can't afford one chef? It seems like this is more a downtime thing he does with his son for the sake of family bonding (may explain where the food based nickname of 'sweet little pumpkin' came from) and he knows his son will be fed by his employees when he's busy.

Again, too dependent, but I don't see any signs of such an intense neglect to call him a bad dad.

Of course, this is more in the assumption category. It is possible the neglect is more active and that the King is just a douche, but I feel that we are being purposely mislead here.

Now, onto the final point.

HIS SUBJECTS

Let's talk about why Spade King did what he did.

Spade King hates Lightners, that much is obvious. He calls them scum, says that 'their existence goes against our own' and feels absolutely no guilt towards trying to kill them post-fountain.

Which isn't really not justified. Darkners were made to keep Lightners happy, only to be abandoned by them. The Chaos King has to watch as the kingdom, HIS kingdom, rotted without meaning. He had to raise his son with the understanding that he would never be 'truely happy' because the so called only source of happiness for Darkners left them to the wayside.

So, when the Knight came, is it really that surprising he would try to create a 'new purpose' as he said? Yes, perhaps world domination is a bit insane (maybe he's dramatic like that, maybe it was the fountain, he does hate Lightners so it's likely both) but the core of his ideals, that darkners can be something beyond what they are to Lightners is not only justified but correct.

In the scene where the gang are walking to the castle in Chapter 1, Lancer acknowledges how happy he is to be here, feeling like he's doing 'something important'. Ralsei replies that this is because he is serving the Lightners and that is the purpose of the Darkners.

Susie is notably uncomfortable, and dismisses Ralsei's point as 'weird purpose' talk and simply says that Lancer is just happy because he ate a weird berry. This is the first sign that the plot beat of Darkners only gaining happiness from Lightners is not just going to be an accepted status quo by the main cast and that there is likely to be more contention about the subject in the future.

(I would also like to mention that Ralsei in this scene asks if the Spade King is happy, in which Lancer very hesitantly says he's not sure.)

Then, in chapter 2, Ralsei is shown to be confused about friendship. He starts to understand that friendship is more than just being nice all the time and that he should be more 'Ralsei-like', meaning more like himself.

The problem is that he doesn't know what that is. He's spent all this time forming himself into the perfect companion but he doesn't know how to be himself. This is a result of his purpose, his wish to be the perfect Darkner for his friends. Now, his purpose seems more cloudy. Should he continue being the perfect little angel for his friends or should he become someone who is more genuine on their own terms, like what his friends seem to want?

While Ralsei is still doing everything he can for the Lighteners, he is slowly becoming his own individual, which is what the King wanted for all Darkners.

Then there's the general themes of control. Be it Kris, the secret bosses or the Spade King, all of these people wish to be more than the binds that control them. While the Spade King is acting on behalf of the Knight, he does so to free his people from the influence of the Lightners, to make purpose on their own terms and be their own people.

Just like how Kris wishes to be free from, you, the player, also making their own purpose and be their own person. May I remind you that the Darkners are media and toys, fun things meant to be enjoyed. They are in universe equivalents of video game characters, made to entertain Lightners, just like Kris, Ralsei and Susie are made to entertain us. The only difference is that the latter is closer to the forth wall.

So yes, while his world domination thing was wack, I believe the Spade King is righteous in his core values.

So why doesn't any other character seem to agree?

Ralsei completely believes that Darkners can only gain happiness from Lightners, Queen does everything she does for the sake of Lightners, hell, the town that the Darkners live in isn't named after the Prince or anything but you, a Lightner. They even call you boss!

At this point, the only character who cares for Darkners having a purpose outside of Lightners is locked in a jail cell.

Now, it is possible that Toby Fox introduces another character who has Spade King's beliefs but is less nasty about it, but that's lame. It's also possible that Ralsei has an epiphany and realise that Darkners deserve better and that becomes the result of his arc. Better, and I can see him going in that direction, but I still think it's less satisfactory.

In any route in which you don't get all recruits, the King is the only person who acknowledges this and is actively upset about it. Even the Queen is hesitant yet still ultimately okay with leaving her subjects behind because the Lightners are onboard.

The goofy cutscene where he asks for cashews? Gone. He simply remarks on how you left them behind like Lightners left the Card Kingdom darkners behind and tells you to 'Begone'. The first line is said with a smile, knowing that he's been proven right but after that, the smile leaves and he's just... cold. He seems genuinely upset about what happened to the Darkners you left behind, portrayed with a '...' in his second line and the loss of his smile. He is not trying to trick you, you simply disgust him at this point. He cares for Darkners in a way that no character has shown yet (aside from Nubert (the goat))

This is why the title of this post is why Spade King is GOING to be redeemed and not me saying he SHOULD be. The difference in levity between an interaction with the Spade King post full recruits and not full recruits indicates that by getting recruits, the King is more willing to acknowledge you and, perhaps with time, your points and intentions. If Spade King was supposed to be this abusive bastard, having characters such as the Queen be on positive terms with him seems strange. You can argue nuance all you want, but the Queen, a character who we're supposed to like, being friends with a character we're supposed to end up hating seems like a strange writing decision no matter how you slice it. Especially if he's a straight up child abuser.

(yes I know she might not know but are you really expecting an epic drama where Queen finds out he's an abusive scumbag and calls him out? Having a morally positive character be friends with an abuser can work but in this situation, it is objectively a weird choice and I will argue on that)

He asks for cashews in this chapter and suckles out a giant hamster water container. Maybe the second serves to make him look pathetic, but then the Queen apparently has the same thing but bigger. The cashew bit is played off as endearing more then anything.

This is all because you got those recruits. Without them, he doesn't even talk to you. Therefore, it can be concluded that Spade King does have a chance. After all, if all of him was completely against you and believed you would be bound to abandon them, he would not be talking to you in any route. It's only when you prove it directly that he stops.

Toby Fox uses the recruit dialogue to endear you to him, which I presume is to set up a redemption if you continue to go down the recruit everyone path. By proving him wrong in future chapters, I presume he will talk more about himself and his ideals and perhaps listen to the Fun Gang and his son in turn.

CONCLUSION

My prediction is that over the course of the chapters, players will see more and more endearing aspects of the Chaos King, with things such as his theoretical neglect and love for Lancer being properly clarified and elaborated on, but only if you keep all recruits. He will still be sceptical, perhaps even leading to him going against you when the Knight returns, but he will ultimately fight by your side if you have successfully convinced him through your treatment of the Darkners that Lightners aren't bad after all.

Hopefully by the ending point, Ralsei would have had enough of an extential crisis to hear the Spade King out on his whole 'Darkners deserve to be happy without the Lightners' deal. Susie would absolutely be on board with her friends finding happiness without needing Lightners (I can see her arguing with Ralsei about it in a future chapter).

I can see him sacrificing himself, but I don't want Lancer to deal with that.

The final point I would like to mention is his place in the narrative. A lot of people have argued that all he is meant to be in an objective evil to prove that Ralsei was wrong about fighting never being the answer and that a redemption would ruin that, and yes, that is his role is chapter 1.

But if that was his only purpose, bringing him back as the only person to actively acknowledge the consequences of your lack of recruits seems pointless. Giving him moments of endearment and clarifying he loves his son is unnecessary. You, again, can argue it's for the sake of nuance but I think at this point I have clarified that there is a lot more to it than that.

Besides, what would be more satisfying to see than the most stubborn character of your journey, the only one you could not convince in the chapter he appeared in, joining your side as a result of you sparing every darkner you can?

In a game with only one ending, making routes like full mercy seem worth it is kind of important if you want players to bother caring about those mechanics. The few dialogue changes we do get really don't cut it.

But witnessing the development of a character who you started off hating but then becomes your ally due to your decisions and comes to help you in your darkest hour?

That would be worth it.

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Thanks for reading this theory! It's been a while since I've written a theory like that. Do say your opinions, I know this is a desisive topic but I am still happy to hear people's perspectives!

#undescribed #spade king #asgore dreemurr #deltarune meta #deltarune analysis #deltarune theory

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under-lore · 2 years ago

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Yoshi is Gaster

For years the fandom has been theorising about the past of WD Gaster, today this mystery has finally been solved once and for all.

Gaster is non other than Yoshi from Super Mario.

Still skeptical ? Let me present you the undeniable evidence.

First of all, in Deltarune a man in a tree that is obviously Gaster gives us eggs. But why eggs of all things rather than anything else ?

Its because eggs are always associated with Gaster's true identity.

As we all know, Gaster is trapped in the void, now lets look at the most famous trope related to Yoshi in the super Mario series : The Yoshi sacrifice.

It consists of using Yoshi to jump further by sacrificing it and letting it fall into the void below.

Now you might still think this is a coincidence and that Super Mario isn’t canon to Undertale and Deltarune. But you would be wrong.

In Undertale, we can clearly see a video game console in the garbage dump.

The console which we see is a SNES.

And guess on which console did super Mario world come from ? The game where Yoshi is first dropped into the void ? That’s right ! The SNES !

But Deltarune is where it gets even more troubling.

Asriel plays super smashing fighters, and in this game, his favorite character is non other than :

YOSHI.

We therefore have proof that Yoshi really is canon in the world of Undertale/Deltarune.

Lets dive deeper into the connection between Asriel, Yoshi and Gaster.

Gaster doesn’t exist in Deltarune under this name, he only exists as Yoshi. In Undertale however he was always Gaster.

Asriel, naive child that he was, threw Yoshi into the void in the world of Deltarune when he played Super Mario world.

But remember that Undertale and Deltarune are parallel worlds, if in Deltarune Yoshi falls into the void sacrificing himself for Asriel then the same must be true in Undertale as well.

In Undertale, Asriel almost fell into the core but Gaster saved him at the last second, falling into the core himself instead.

In both worlds, Gaster falls in the void to save Asriel.

Gaster when he fell was shattered across time and space so when Asriel in Deltarune sacrificed Yoshi, a gap opened in the space-time continuum and he saw the Undertale timeline and what he had done to the Gaster in Undertale by throwing Yoshi into the void in Deltarune.

Because of this, Asriel in Deltarune became depressed and ever since that day he never loved Yoshi and eggs again because it reminded him of what he had done.

For more proof that the universes did interact with each other. We have this secret line in the code of Undertale in which we can see Yoshi/Gaster from the world of Deltarune talking to Asriel just before sacrificing himself for him.

We also see proof that Asriel knew Who Gaster was since Flowey can imitate Gaster’s face.

More evidence that Yoshi is connected to all of them :

Papyrus, who is connected to both Gaster and to Flowey (so Asriel) also happens to have an egg in his room !

Flowey has won every game and lost every game, which means he must have also played Mario World on the SNES from the garbage dump that we saw earlier and killed a Yoshi, everything comes full circle.

But there is still one more big revelation to make.

Yoshi and Gaster are both always linked to Asriel and to eggs in both Undertale and Deltarune. But what other secret does the egg hold ?

Its because the word “egg” when translated in wingdings which is Gaster’s font translates to the coordinates of the movement pattern of a knight when playing chess.

That’s right, Asriel is non other than the knight.

Everything lines up : the egg, the connection to Gaster in both Undertale and Deltarune…

The “game” that made Jevil insane was super Mario world when he saw Yoshi die and saw all the timelines just like Asriel when the universes interacted.

Spamton is a scammer to reference how when Super Mario world first came out, video game piracy in Japan was at an all time high.

To finish this off i’ll predict the secret second ending of Deltarune.

In chapter 7 if you collected all of the 7 eggs, you can merge them together into a big egg and a Yoshi will get born from it, then it will turn into Gaster, revealing the truth about Gaster’s identity. After the final battle, Yoshi will use his tongue to eat the titans before sacrificing himself one last time by jumping into a dark fountain. The roaring will have finally been stopped and Gaster will have succeeded in stopping it, being remembered as a hero.

Any naysayer to this theory is objectively wrong.

#april fools #undertale #gaster #undertale theory #yoshi #undertale gaster #Asriel #deltarune #deltarune theory #deltarune knight

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stainedglassthreads · 2 years ago

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for the character asks: Toriel :)

if she’s already been requested, how about Ralsei or Asgore?

Toriel has not been taken yet, but thanks for giving me an excuse to talk about her. I think I'll do both her and Asgore.

Toriel

favorite thing about them: I love the way that, while her and Asgore's kids are very much her and Asgore's kids, they're not carbon copies of each other either. I also love how, despite being compassionate and nurturing and moral, monsters in the Ruins describe her as 'intimidating' while flavor text describes her as acting 'aloof'. It's such a shame that a lot of fanworks don't really go into the more unemotional and distanced aspects of her personality.

least favorite thing about them: I wish we saw more of her grief in-game, rather than implied by extra content. I also have to admit, it's kinda sad that most of her development happens offscreen, and her confrontation with Asgore is more comedic than emotional and meaningful. Toby is great at creating these characters who have all these depth if you dig into them, who the fanbase proceed to take at face value.

favorite line: "What are you doing? Attack or run away! What are you proving this way? Fight me or leave! Stop it. Stop looking at me that way. Go away!" (Love how it parallels Asriel's boss fight dialogue.)

brOTP: Toriel and Sans. Obviously.

OTP: None. Aroace queen.

nOTP: Despite thinking that exploring their relationship has a lot of potential, I think most Post-Pacifist Asgoriel does a really, really, really bad job of exploring their relationship. With a few particulars in mind…

random headcanon: Like Asriel and Asgore, she too has a weapon she can summon and fight with. It's a big fucking anime sword. It's just the goddamn Dragonslayer.

unpopular opinion: She is the Dreemurr portrayed as a 'good person' most consistently, but she's mischaracterized and flanderized just as often as the rest of the family. Also where are the Toriel-centric AUs that have zero romance. Where are they.

song i associate with them: Just Another Day and I Miss the Mountains, both from Next to Normal, feel apt.

favorite picture of them: don't really got any

Asgore

favorite thing about them: He's Just Some Guy. Toriel paints him as a remorseless villain. His subjects paint him as a savior. But he's just. Some guy. You find him watering the flowers. He sees his dead child in you. He tries so hard. He wishes there was another way. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. He remarks that today's a perfect day for catch, shortly before trying to kill you. He gives you every chance to turn back. He chooses not to dodge. His attacks leave you with 1 HP.

He still has to kill you.

He still can't.

He still might.

least favorite thing about them: Release the Forbidden Ending where he adopts Frisk and we get to spend time with him like we did Toriel, Papyrus, Undyne, Alphys, and Sans, Toby. Release the Forbidden Ending where Flowey is left fuming with jealousy and rage because BOTH his parents tried replacing him. RELEASE THE FORBIDDEN KING DAD ENDING

...Also I want Asgore dodging onscreen, reminding the fandom that yes. He is capable of dodging. It's just that you remind him of his dead child.

favorite line: "Birds are singing... flowers are blooming... perfect weather for a game of catch." Original flavor gets overshadowed too damn much by Sans' version.

brOTP: Asgore and Undyne. Asgore teaching Undyne how to kick his own ass and being proud when she does. Asgore desperate yoinking Undyne out of his kitchen. Asgore teaching Undyne piano. Undyne making friends with two people who might remind her of Asgore.

OTP: I don't think I really consider it an OTP, I don't go looking for content of it or anything. But Asgorudy's kinda sweet. Two older men who had some rough past experiences with love, who fall in love with each other.

Sansgore also has potential, methinks. Imagine the comedic awkwardness of Toriel and Asgore having to make up with each other not because Asriel was revived, not because they're getting back togther... but because Sans is dating Toriel's ex.

nOTP: I don't hate Kingdings but every time I see Gaster imply that Toriel never loved Asgore, or that Asgore was too good for her, I start hissing.

random headcanon: The reason he keeps giving children too much responsibility is that, due to a crippling lack of people in positions of authority in the war, he was dumped with the responsibility of housing and fielding complaints of monster refugees. I also like the headcanon he had a stupidly large number of older siblings in line for the throne before him and wasNEVER meant to be king.

unpopular opinion: He and Toriel and more similar than they are different.

song i associate with them: I've Been. Also from Next to Normal. "And I've never had to face the world without her at my side/Now I'm strolling right beside her as the black hole opens wide/Mine is just a slower suicide..."

favorite picture of them: I like his battle sprite. I like how he can't even look at you.

#ask meme #undertale #toriel #asgore #asgore dreemurr

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cheyj05 · 3 years ago

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Common Threads between Deltarune Chapters

As I’m sure you’ve noticed there are some common threads between the 2 chapters of Deltarune that we have, some obvious, some not, and right now I have decided to record those threads so we may predict the future chapters of Deltarune (and also so I can feel smug about being right if I am)

-Locations and Theme

The most obvious, I grouped them together because they’re usually connected. The Aesthetic is based off the objects in the Location and the Location is wherever the Dark Fountain is.

-The Location in Chapter 1 is an Unused Classroom in the School which is full of Toys and Games, which is the Aesthetic.

-The Location in Chapter 2 is the Computer Room in the Library, which is full of computers, which connects to the Aesthetic of The Internet

-The Location for Chapter 3 will be the Living Room in Toriel’s House. We technically don’t know what the Aesthetic will be, but judging by the still on TV the Aesthetic could only really be Television.

- The Locations for Chapters 4,5,6 and 7 are Unknown but due to the relatively small size of Hometown it should be pretty easy to find some Locations and speculate on some Aesthetics (feel free to also speculate as I'm sure you can come up with more ideas that I can.)

-Flower King- There’s a whole east wing we haven’t seen yet, also Flower Aesthetic also FLOWEY!!! ASGORE!!

-QC’s Diner- possibly when Catti and Jockington join the party? Can’t completely discard it.

-The pizza place is a possibility so I’m putting it down, it’s highly unlikely though.

-’Sans-possible Dark World Sans?

-Hospital- Is probably actually gonna be a Location. Medical Stuff Aesthetic. Rudy?

-Police Station- UNDYNE! UNDYNE! ALSO ALPHYS!

-Somewhere beyond the Blocked Road- We don’t know what’s over there so it’s entirely possible we could have a Location there.

-House of Worship- Also a likely Location. Holy Aesthetic. I’ll also put the Cemetery here b/e they’re right next to each other.

-Beyond the Mysterious Door- We’re going to find out something relating to it, there very well might be a Dark Fountain beyond there.

- The various characters’ houses we haven’t been in yet- Maybe. Papyrus?

- The entire town- it could make a good finale.

-Characters

New Chapters mean new characters! And through our characters journeys through the Dark Worlds, I’ve noticed a pattern in characters.

There is a character that goes through the majority of the character development and acts as the main focus of the chapter, the character that acts as comic relief and minion to the Ruler who gets character development in the latter half of the chapter, and there’s the Ruler who has power over the other 2 and ambiguous parallels someone in the first one’s life. Among these characters, 2 of them parallel each other in their relationship to the 3rd.

Then there’s the Dark Crystal Holder, we all know them. They had an encounter with ??? that changed their life and caused their fall from grace and the breakdown of their relationship with a side character, leaving them all alone. They act as bonus bosses. They also have an implied but never seen relationship to the Ruler. They also have some level of 4th wall awareness. They are usually based on something related to the Aesthetic that no one likes or discards.

- In Chapter 1, we have Susie as our Character Development, Lancer as our Comic Relief, and the King as our Ruler. Susie and the King parallel each other in their relationship to Lancer as he looks up to both of them for being “strong” and “cool”. The difference being the King quite willingly hurts Lancer while Susie refuses to do so. Due to the Queen’s parallel with Noelle’s mother, we can make a possible connection to what Susie’s family situation is like if they parallel the King. We have Jevil as our Dark Crystal Holder, his encounter with ??? made him view the whole world as a game, straining his relationship with Seam. He is based on the Joker card which is usually discarded from decks.

-In Chapter 2, we have Noelle as our Character Development, Berdly as the Comic Relief, and Queen as our Ruler. Berdly and Queen parallel each other in their relationship with Noelle, as they both use her for their own benefit despite truly caring about her. The difference being Berdly steps up to bat, drops all his bs and tries to save her in the Snowgrave route while the Queen passively sits by and barely appears until the end where all she does is let Noelle rest and immediately tries to find someone else to use. The Queen is implied to parallel Noelle’s mother. The Dark Crystal Holder is Spamton and his deal with ??? ends up straining his relationship with the Addisons. He is based on spam emails which everybody filters out.

- Chapter 3 isn’t out yet but we can pretty safely say that Toriel will end up being the Character Development as she fits in no other role here. Judging by the fact that Jevil mentioned the Queen in the chapter before she appears we can pretty safely say that since Spamton mentioned him ‘Mike” will end up being the Ruler.

- Judging by the fact that Catti and Jockington are the only other classmates with sprites it seems pretty likely that they will be acting as the Character Development and Comic relief, respectively, in a future chapter.

-Theme

The Theme is a sort of thread that runs through each respective chapter that ties together the Character Development, the Comic Relief, the Ruler, and the Dark Crystal Holder. In fact the Dark Crystal Holder usually seems to embody the Theme

-In Chapter 1, the Theme is Your Choices Don’t Matter. Susie actively states this when we first meet her. All of the ways the characters develop in this chapter do not change no matter what you do. Jevil sort of embodies this Theme as when he met ???, he realized he was in a game world and thus His Choices Didn’t Matter so he could do whatever he wanted to with no real consequences.

-In Chapter 2 the Theme is Control. Noelle is usually Controlled by others and by the end of the Normal route she learns to take Control of her own life whereas in the Weird route she is Controlled by the Player. Berdly tries to take Control of his life by building his identity around his “smarts” so he won’t be forgotten ever again. He also unintentionally Controls Noelle by acting as her “knight” and generally steamrolling her when she tries to talk. Queen also tries to Control Noelle along with everyone else as she believes it’s the only way to fulfill her function. The difference is Berdly tries to stand up for her when You are Controlling her while the Queen, despite claiming to care for Noelle and acting motherly towards her, is nowhere to be found. Spamton acts as a sort of embodiment for this Theme, he’s desperately trying to gain Control of his own life while being Controlled himself

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invertedfate · 3 years ago

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I know that the whole point of Inverted Fate is that Frisk in the original timeline never won the Asriel Dreemurr fight, and if they HAD won said fight, Inverted Fate never would have happened. But after seeing how you described their friendship with Lilac. I'm now just imagining. The moment where Asriel's just like 'yeah, you and Chara are so different, you're the kind of friend I always wanted, I have no idea why I mistook you for each other!'

And Frisk, who ran away from a toxic and codependent friendship where their own rash actions caused their friend to be badly hurt and nearly die, who has at this point heard the story of the Dreemurr children and presumably seen the True Lab tapes, just sweats heavily and goes 'Yeah... so different... very different styles of friendship...'

Especially since in original Undertale, we don't get much of what Frisk says, outside of in-battle ACTs... but we certainly never seem to get anything as heartfelt as their discussion with Papyrus after Fort Aquarius. So I imagine that their character development either wasn't the same, or was nowhere near as deep. That perhaps, despite not wanting to kill anyone, and trying to leave things better than they found them, they weren't so close with monsterkind. (Perhaps that distance was what allowed Asriel's determination to win out, in the end. But, eh, doesn't really matter. The why isn't important, just that it happened at all and what comes of it.)

I'm gonna be honest. I like the parallel between Chara/Asriel and Frisk/Lilac a lot, and if Asriel does still end up idolizing Frisk (which I acknowledge may not happen), I REALLY wish I could see Frisk snap and go 'actually we're very similar, and this is unhealthy.' Since they've got a voice and all now. Just rambling thoughts now tho. As an author I think you've thoroughly proven your skill, so I have full faith that the end of IF will be spectacular, no matter what happens.

This is a really insightful message! :) I can confirm that Frisk in the old timeline definitely didn't have the development they had here. They kept up their "nice kid" act for the most part, barring accidents like when they killed Toriel and Undyne (albeit they fixed both of those). Nothing really pushed them to confront their true self and make peace with it, which I think definitely contributed to the way things went. And yeah, the parallels weren't 100% planned at first but it happened so organically and I like how Frisk and Chara have parallels and work as foils despite the differences in their demeanors and outlooks. There's a LOT to potentially unpack regarding Flowey/Asriel, too, but of course I wouldn't dare spoil what's to come. ;)

#asks #frisk #lilac #asriel #chara #flowey #old timeline

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badmusejail · 2 years ago

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Gaster's Default Timeline.

Please note that this is the default meaning that this is the world I use in absence of other headcanons but I'd be more than happy to plot something different out!!

Let's follow the order of events.

Gaster's original timeline is mostly inconsequential. For all intents and purposes, it no longer exists. When he fell into the CORE, the timeline was altered into a similar one, except where most evidence of his existence was erased.

The state of Gaster's existence in this new timeline can be compared to the Mandela Effect--sometimes people remember him, sometimes they don't, and the very same person can deny ever saying they heard of him sometime later. This is most prominent in regards to the position of Royal Scientist; monsters argue whether Alphys is the third or fourth to hold the role.

His existence is most likely to be recalled on a relative level; such as when thinking about who created the CORE or who the Royal Scientist before Alphys was. It's a common phenomenon for people to conceptualize him without actually being able to recall any level of detail, e.g. "I know who it is but I can't think of his name."

Due to the DEEP CORE being the site of the accident, it's essentially the pivot point between the two parallel timelines. The further away from the site, the more drastic the changes were. For this reason, the CORE itself, Sans, Papyrus, and a variety of other markers of his existence still remain, but further away, most evidence of his existence was destroyed.

This gap in memory is powerful but incomplete, with many monsters having especially in Hotland knowing that they were forgetting something, but being unable to recall what it was. The phenomenon was so powerful that a great many of the workers in the CORE no longer felt comfortable working there; sensing the change despite not actually remembering what they're mourning. The CORE was a lot more populated in Gaster's original timeline.

The accident shattered Gaster's SOUL, ejecting pieces all across the multiverse and creating a chaotically stable mixture of magic, Determination, and Void. Eventually, the greatest concentration of his SOUL regained consciousness and learned to manipulate the Void to work as a body, creating the form referred to as Unbound Gaster.

The unique state of Gaster's SOUL results in him not belonging to any timeline. (Alternately, he can be considered as belonging to his own monster-shaped timeline.) Flowey's and Frisk's abilities to alter the timeline have no influence on him; and in reverse, Gaster has no influence on them or the timeline despite possessing an unnatural amount of Determination. He is still extremely powerful, but with the power to ALTER rather than SAVE or LOAD. The exact mechanics of this power is outside the scope of this post, but can be found here.

Given the fact that a monster's SOUL breaks when they die and the fact that Gaster's SOUL is shattered but he still exists thanks to Determination, he's technically neither alive nor dead (or both, depending on how you like your flavor of quantum superposition) and cannot be killed by any traditional means. However, a particularly strong source of Determination is still capable of disrupting his consciousness, essentially temporarily destroying him, and despite all of his power, his stability relies on an equilibrium between Determination and Void in his SOUL. Either one in excess is detrimental to his physical form.

Unlike other interpretations of Gaster, this one is not and never was stuck in the Void. He just saw no point in continuing to engage with a timeline that was constantly resetting when he persisted across each change. But he still occasionally checked in on it; thus why Frisk can randomly encounter him.

Gaster actually did confront Flowey during this time; they battled and Gaster killed him numerous times before Gaster decided there was no point.

Frisk solely did a pacifist run, though did SAVE and LOAD as necessary.

It wasn't until Frisk freed the monsters and lead them to the surface that Gaster was revived by Sans (albeit somewhat accidentally).

The machine essentially drew together the pieces of Gaster's SOUL--and by coincidence, one day Sans left it on and forgot about it. Eventually, enough pieces of his SOUL were gathered that he was able to regain his conscience and form a more proper body, thus creating the form known as Refused Gaster.

This had no actual impact on the timeline--people still do and don't remember him, but are capable now of forming new memories of his existence.

This was supposed to be a post about surface world Gaster, but I guess I'll have to get to that later.

#|| ooc | out of character #|| gaster | headcanon | can a fragment be a whole?#|| gaster | chorus of nothing.#undertale cw

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bekaroth-reads · 3 years ago

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thoughts on deltarune and papyrus’ missing status therein

So, I’ve been thinking about Deltarune stuff. Mostly just me rambling, so idk if you would consider it an actual theory of not.

There are plenty of differences in the Undertale and Deltarune stories, like how the monsters are the ones above ground, how different characters interact with each other, etc.

(Also spoilers for Undertale and the first two chapters of Deltarune)

(also another note: this was supposed to just be like a few thoughts, like, three paragraphs tops, but then, as usual, I got carried away.)

One of the main ones though is the age difference between characters and their counterparts. Kris, Deltarune’s version of Undertale’s Frisk, seems to be pre-teen to young teen as opposed a kid somewhere in the 7-10 range. This also goes for monster kid that looks to be older in Deltarune then he was in Undertale, following Kris into the pre-teen age. There is also Bratty and Catty who go from teens to being old enough to have their own families. And, of course Asriel who went from being a child, to being old enough to go to a university out of town, and is said to be about the same age as Bratty and Catty( it could be argued that he would have been about their age in Undertale if he had not been turned into Flowey, etc.)

There is actually another variation of age where some characters, and that’s some of them are younger than their Undertale counterparts. For instance there is Temmi who was old enough to go to “cooleg” in Undertale, but is in Frisk’s class in Deltarune. Or the few that didn’t have a very discernible ages that were made to be about Frisk’s age like Snowdrake.

Another thing to note about is the parallels between the characters and some of the dark world counter parts. For instance, the King is there to help Susie reflect on how she’s treating other people, and the queen is there to help Noelle to learn to stand up to people (and to a minor degree show Birdly how he treats people much like Susie and the King.) Though I don’t have much to base it on, I also get the feeling that the alt bosses are there to represent parts of Frisk that they need to understand and work on.

Jevil showing that they have a problem with controlling themselves sometimes like how Jevil being cast out and locked away for causing problems in his kingdom, and Kris being constantly reminded by his friends and family that they have a problem with taking jokes too far and having little self control with things like eating all the desert in their house before anyone else could have any, scaring Noelle so badly and so often that her family was hesitant to even let them hang out with each other for awhile. Spamton being the feeling of loneliness that they feel now that they are being faced with the consequences of those actions, with Kris feeling like they had been tossed away like trash. The feeling of isolation with Spamton could also be related to them being in a divorced household, and their brother leaving. They used to have someone to help them get through the hard times with that, but with Asriel and Des going to university out of town and Noelle seemingly not hangin out with them much anymore close to when that happened, they were left to handle their parents fighting all by themself. And, while neither Toriel nor Asgore seem like they purposely want to put that pressure on Kris they do still get them involved with things like Asgore using them to try to give their mother flowers to apologize for things, and Toriel doing things like not even using their father’s name, making Frisk feel like they’re basically sneaking behind their parent’s back whenever they want to talk to one or the other.

That idea aside, where I was going with this is that the bosses in the dark world seem to be mirrors or foils to help the main cast of characters see things about themselves and maybe find a way to work on them.

There is one returning character from Undertale, the everyone is begging to see and Toby keeps teasing, and that is none other than Papyrus. This is where the other things I just talked about come into play. As I think that at some point, Papyrus is going to be one of the friends that Kris ends up taking to the dark world, but I don’t think that will happen until one of the later chapters. This is because there might be a good chance that his dark world mirror, or perhaps the alt boss for his section of dark world could be Gaster.

Now, I’m not going to say that even with some of the hints that it’s certain Gaster will be in Deltarune at all. What a lot of people use for proof that he is, is the fact that when you stand by the bunker at the bottom of town, or use your cell in the dark world, it plays noises that sound like the ones that play in the Darker, Darker, yet, Darker sequence(which could been seen as another hint.) While that could be, it could also be Toby Fox reusing sound fonts and existing sound effects to get the point across as well. A instance of him doing this is in chapter 2 there is a mini-game where you pop balloons, and when the balloons pop they make the same noise the heart in Undertale makes when it shatters. Just because he used the same sound effect doesn’t mean that when you pop the balloons in Deltarune, you’re committing mass murder.

But, let’s say that Gaster is indeed in the game. He would make a great mirror for Deltarune’s version of Papyrus. Papyrus in this game seems to be a bit younger than he was in Undertale, though there’s not much solid proof of this. Something that makes it difficult to tell is that he was one of the characters that didn’t have a very definable age in the first one. While most people thought that he was a young adult with an innocent personality, there is the chance that he was always younger than what we thought he was seeing as he still had things like toys, a race car bed, a favorite bed-time story, and believes in Santa. Now, I think he would be a teenager at the youngest, perhaps and older teen around Catty and Bratty’s age, and his interests and hobbies lined up with things considered for people about five to ten years his age and not an adult who’s hobbies tended to be around fifteen to twenty years younger( this is an in general statement. I get people can be into whatever hobbies at whatever age, this just means, like, the people who are generally into certain things like Santa and race car beds.)

Regardless of his age in Undertale, though, there is a good chance that he is closer to Kris’s age in Deltarune. This would hold up as Sans asks Kris to hang out with Papyrus, trying to maybe get his brother friends his own age. And, many younger people, teens especially, don’t handle things like moving to different towns that well. This could be one of the reasons that Papyrus sort of locks himself in his house and won’t talk to anyone but his brother. The lack of confidence could also be a younger Papyrus not being as confident in his abilities to make friends, which was something that he also seemed to struggle with in Undertale; except in the Deltarune world, he doesn’t have his guard duty to keep him active or get him out and about, so he hides away instead. That could be his development in his version of the dark world. The whole thing with Gaster disappearing and feeling like no one can see him could be a reflection on how this Papyrus feels, and going through his adventure could help him be closer to the original Papyrus that we all know and love. We might just have to wait for him, though, as it will take Sans bugging him for a week or so before he finally gives in and decides to hang out with Kris.

Anyways, if you read this, thank you for digging through my word vomit. Again, not really a theory per se, just me thinking (typing) aloud.

#deltarune #delta rune #undertale #deltarune thoughts #rambles

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galactic-blitz · 4 years ago

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Okay okay so, bear with me-- Undertale music has always held a special place in my heart. With Ranboo using it for his lore music, it got me thinking. So, I decided to compile all my theories about the songs he uses :]

They’re not set in stone, of course, and it’s all speculating on if he actually uses the music for lore purposes or if it just sounds neat to put during the moment, but this is my post and I get to make the song theories.

Also, shoutout to @purplezbop because they also theorized with me :] it was a fun time.

(SPOILER WARNING: These are all from his 2/13/2020 stream/date up until that time, so I’ll put it under the cut)

Disclaimer, I am specifically talking about the characters.

First, Waterfall

In the game, Waterfall plays while the player is in the Waterfall section of the game (obvious, i know, but shh). Along with this, it also plays in the section where Echo Flowers are present.

To those who don’t know the game, Echo Flowers are just that-- they repeat the words that were spoken to them right back. However, also in this section, we find out (though during a different song-- ‘Premonition’) that Papyrus has been talking to these Echo Flowers, but get this: they talk back.

The player then can make the assumption that this flower is Flowey, a character that we can then connect to Dream.

Using what we now know about the song ‘Waterfall’, we can see that this song is potentially representing Ranboo still being manipulated by Dream and other forces, such as the Egg as we see in the 2/13 stream. This also could be a reference to how others are still being manipulated.

Second, The Choice

In the game, the Choice is featured in the Hall right before you fight Asgore. This is the song that plays when Sans is talking about LV, EXP, and the like, though it is slower when the player takes the Genocide Route.

Later on in the 2/13 stream, Ranboo is seen taking up Dream’s previous goal of making “a happy little family”. However, using what we know about Undertale, we can potentially see the following:

Dream chose the genocide route. It is almost obvious in his actions, the way he began to go from caring to the puppetmaster behind the scenes, orchestrating each rise and fall of countries and even the citizens that lived in them. Ranboo, however, is like the ‘Frisk’ of this story, and we will (hopefully) see him make the right choices to bring everyone together. Not out of anger towards one person, but out of true friendship. That is what the pacifist route sought out to end with: the characters, all together, making it to the surface.

Third, Fallen Down and Fallen Down (Reprise)

The first Fallen Down plays when we meet Toriel for the first time, after our initial fight with Flowey. She opens her arms to us, the player, and invites us into her home.

The second plays when she intervenes in our fight with Asgore, the one nearing the end of the game. Again, she helps us in evading an enemy, protecting us.

I don’t have much to say about these two, but one main thing about the reprise (and something I’ll get into later) is that it plays after ASGORE, another song Ranboo has used during lore streams. From this song, we can make the connection that when this song is played, Ranboo is potentially being shielded by something or someone from another’s control. Then again, these two, I’m a bit more unsure of.

Another sidenote: He also uses the slower version of this song, referred to by some as “Empty House” or just the Genocide version of Fallen Down. Again, this could be referring to Dream being the one to choose the Genocide route, and Ranboo, after being a slight parallels when we look at his “happy family” goal, is choosing between Genocide and Pacifist (especially during the Egg scene on 2/13)

Finally, ASGORE

Like the name implies, ASGORE plays when the player is in their (what is perceived to be) final fight. We are up against Asgore, the king of the underground, and during this fight, the Mercy button is gone. Asgore also completely intends to kill the player.

Depending on who’s side you take, Asgore is either the savior of the underground, trying to defeat the last human and gain freedom for the monsters, or the king who is going to kill us and take our life and our only way home. Either way, it is clear he is not going down without a fight.

Dream, in the SMP, is something similar, though his intentions are skewed and his actions say otherwise. In his eyes, he’s doing what needs to be done, making his ‘happy little family,’ but to everyone else, he’s trying to gain power over others in the server for some odd gain. In the fight to get the discs back, he even threatens Tommy and Tubbo, before they are saved by Punz with the rest of the server in tow.

Of course, Dream is also similar to Flowey in many ways, but we can also draw connections between him and other characters such as Asgore as well.

This one, like Fallen Down, I’m a bit more unsure of, but there you go.

That’s all I really have for now! Of course, I might end up adding more as lore streams continue and I collect more songs to think about all hours of the day. You know how it is. o7

#mcyt #dream smp #dsmp #dream #dreamwastaken #ranboo #ranboolive #tommyinnit #tubbo #undertale music #minecraft youtube #spoiler warning for everything up to ranboo's 2/13/2020 stream #dsmp theory #man i am just here.#we are just here @ purple.#id say we're clowning but this is actually fun #yes c!ranboo is my favorite character why do you ask #(thats a lie its c!quackity but second place isnt that bad /lh)

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agentravensong · 5 years ago

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too emo about undertale to come up with a title

alright. here’s my attempt at an actual undertale anniversary post:

...

Read this other person’s essay that @uselessundertalefacts linked to me a little while ago, it’s incredible. (if you just want the UnderTale stuff in it, jump to part 3)

...okay, okay, let’s see what thoughts of my own I can ramble off while i wait for the anniversary concert to start. There’s an idea I’ve talked about this in Discord servers before, but I don’t think I ever have here. So, here goes:

UnderTale is the story of Chara and Asriel.

I don’t just mean the bit where the song titled “UnderTale” plays. I don’t just mean that their tragic story is what set the events of the game in motion.

I mean that the characters and events of UnderTale’s main plot are, on the most basic level, meant to be altered repetitions of Chara and Asriel’s story; and, therefore, through the events of UnderTale, we can learn about these two otherwise enigmatic characters.

We start with the most obvious connection: a human falls into the Underground, and is helped by a monster. Where the monsters had to get over their fear of humans to accept Chara, and Chara presumably their initial fear of monsters, Toriel must get over her fear of what the monsters will do to you so you can continue.

Next, we arrive in Snowdin, the most friendly and, heh, chill of all the areas in the game, where, despite Toriel’s warnings, one can’t help but feel at home. Snowdin, particularly Snowdin Town, shows and represents how Chara came to feel about the Underground.

The main characters of this area are a pair of siblings. I’m not gonna make a definitive call on which skeleton brother is a closer fit to which Dreemurr kid (though there are definitely some fairly obvious Asriel and Papyrus connections). The point is more so that the relationship we see between the living siblings can serve as a (distorted) glimpse into what the dead siblings’ relationship was like. And in that case, one thing is clear above all else: they really cared about each other.

Now to Waterfall, where the mood is a lot heavier. We the player read about the history of humans and monsters, and the ability for monsters to absorb human souls, as Chara did. We hear the echos of monsters wishing to be free as they stare at the stairs. We learn that Frisk’s soul is the last one the monsters need to break the barrier. In short, we begin to feel the weight that Chara felt as the future of humans and monsters.

The main characters here are Undyne, the most determined monster, who will free the monsters at any cost, even a violent one; and Monster Kid, who stands up to her to save you, a human. Then, right after, Undyne’s battle ends with her either running until she collapses, or slowly fading to dust. Combine those two, and... well...

These character parallels are already heavily implied with how Chara as narrator admires Undyne, and how Monster Kid does the same “turns out my idol wasn’t really the greatest” thing that Asriel does. We also know that Asgore, to some extent, raised Undyne to be the hero she is today. And whose words had the strongest impact on Chara, to where they repeat them every time Frisk dies, to ensure they stay determined?

Next, there’s Hotland, where the parallels are admittedly the weakest. I don’t really have anything to say about the area itself; and while there are connections to draw between Mettaton and Flowey - both left behind and tried to forget their previous lives when they were given new lives by Alphys, both try to emulate humans (in Asriel’s case, a specific human), both like to play violent “games” - they’re not as strong as some of the others.

In that case, you may wonder why I’m drawing the parallel between those two and not between Asriel and Alphys, considering both of them have hidden dark pasts wherein they hurt a lot of people.

Here’s my reason: in Hotland, Alphys becomes a second narrator. She admits that it took her time to become fond of Frisk (and considering Frisk’s a human, and Chara’s opinion on humanity...), but once she gets attached to them, she tries to help them with puzzles, with dealing with monsters (Mettaton specifically), etc. She tries to play it cool, but her true personality can’t help but shine through. And, through helping Frisk, and Frisk later helping her more directly, she becomes a better person.

So, together, Alphys and Mettaton represent where Chara and Asriel/Flowey are at, respectively, during the events of UnderTale. To further drive home the story looping in on itself, half the enemies you fight in the CORE are powered-up versions of monsters from the Ruins.

Then you get to actually learn about the existence of these two kids, going through their home; and then, at last, you find yourself outside the bounds of their story. Now, it’s all up to you how it ends.

Obviously, the whole thing with Frisk being confused for Chara by Flowey also plays into this, and there’s a ton of other stuff I could get into but won’t because I’ve already been working on this post for two hours geez

So, why do I like looking at UnderTale through this lens? For two main reasons: one, the idea of letting your players get to know the characters who are at the heart of the story, but are already dead before it begins, by making the relations of other characters and elements that are more present parallels of those dead characters, is just, so good? Like, if this is intentional on Toby’s end - and we know it is at least in part, thanks to the Monster Kid / Asriel comparison I mentioned - it’s friggin genius.

The second reason is thematic, and it’s similar to that essay I linked up above. The takeaway isn’t that the story of UnderTale is just the retelling of Chara and Asriel’s story, and that the characters are all just specific traits of theirs amplified. It’s that the siblings’ hopes and dreams, and their deaths, have echoed through the Underground up to the present.

It’s that the past has consequences, in ways much more subtle than just someone calling you out for a past mistake. In ways that even a True Reset can’t erase.

But that doesn’t mean we can’t get better. It doesn’t mean we can’t write a better ending, turn the page, and start a new story.

And sometimes, that means letting go.

#undertale #chara dreemurr #asriel dreemurr

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ama1gamates · 5 years ago

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theory:deltarune is one of gaster’s experiments

apologizing ahead of time if this is written in a disorganized manner, also the fact that i veer off topic a couple times to just talk about ways the games are related. its very difficult to organize my thoughts when there is so much to consider despite the fact that this is like my fourth time rewriting this (woops)

theory: deltarune is one of gaster’s experiments. like the entire thing is an experiment.

if you’ve never heard who gaster is in relation to undertale, you should probably look into that first because that’s what this entire thing is about. tldr; he was the royal scientist before alphys, fell into his own experiment and “died” or disappeared. he is presumaby sans’s and papyrus’s father or a part of the family (assuming that w.d. stands for wingdings going along with the whole “named after the font they talk in” thing, especially considering the fact that the journal 17 hidden room is written in wingdings). although we don’t exactly know when gaster is in the timeline of the backstory, we can assume he was hired as the royal scientist to figure out how to get them out of the underground. we can probably assume that he worked with determination, considering that the one time he is visible in the game he appears kind of drippy, like the fact that that’s exactly why amalgamates even happened in true lab. also, the determination extraction machine - was gaster’s. there are blueprints in sans’s workshop, written in a code that frisk cant understand, as well as a broken machine covered by a sheet; we’re assuming that’s an old determination machine and sans translated the blueprints for alphys (she even says in a journal entry “i used the blueprints”). if the “creation” gaster fell in wasn’t the core, it might have been this, because once again he appears all melty like the amalgamates or undyne when she dies. gaster’s appearances in undertale kind of seem like random easter eggs about a character from the past, but i’m not convinced it’s unimportant; in both deltarune and undertale you cannot name your character gaster, it just restarts the game.

now onto why i think deltarune is an experiment: when you download the game onto your computer, the file saves as “SURVEY_PROGRAM.exe” which actually scared me a little bc i was scared i just downloaded a virus, plus the fact that the license agreement when i was installing it said “YOU AGREE TO EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS FROM NOW ON” or something like that. terrifying! and once you open the game it does survey you, asking you to create a vessel and name it as well as yourself, unlike undertale where you only name the first fallen human, chara. plus there is someone that talks you through the whole intro asking you these things, which seems very separate from the narrator of everything else that happens in the game. and i think that this is how gaster was experimenting with human souls; when you die and when you save, the game doesn’t focus on determination like undertale does. (the flipside of this is alphys experimenting how to break the barrier with monster souls and determination).

MY BIGGEST REASON WHY I THINK THIS THOUGH: journal entry 17 from gaster. the entire thing is talking about a darkness growing stronger and cutting deeper, saying “i think this next experiment is going to be very very interesting.” THE ENTIRE PLOT OF DELTARUNE CHAPTER ONE IS RESTORING BALANCE TO THE WORLD BECAUSE OF A FOUNTAIN OF DARKNESS MAKING THE DARK WORLD GROW STRONGER.

it’s also just very Funny(tm) to me that undertale has the surface and the underworld, and that deltarune has the light world and the dark world. there’s just! a very specific! kind of parallel there! like someone might have based it off of the concept of having a surface world and a world underneath!

one other fun thing: clam girl, a rare-appearance npc, talks about her neighbor “suzy” and how the protag should meet her. and once you talk to her, if you go to sans’s workshop, one of the drawers contains a poorly drawn photo of three smiling people the protag doesn’t recognize that says “don’t forget”. but only if you talk to clam girl! also goner clam girl, an even rarer npc, says that u never met suzy but the time to do so is “fast approaching.” i just think it’s interesting ;)))

about kris: i’m thinking that the soul kris out at the end is the player’s? maybe that’s a common theory, idk it probably is. like gaster just chose a human on the lightener world and said “here you go! here’s a soul! have fun being my experiment!” and this soul has more determination than kris; i saw this pointed out in a video, but the first time you play the game and you get to the first save point, you literally overwrite a save file under the name “kris.” in undertale, only the person with the most determination has the ability to save, which is why the only time flowey could save is when he had six human souls in his control, so we can assume the player has more determination than kris. also the fact that kris literally doesn’t emote at ALL the entire game, to me that makes it rlly clear that the soul they rip out is Not Good.

of course i don’t have all the answers! and this isn’t without holes, because yeah our information about gaster is limited and we only have one chapter of deltarune. something i realized today though: in undertale when you read the signs in waterfall, the last one mentions an angel who has seen the surface, presumaby asriel, come will back to free them all (which does happen in true pacifist!) the only other time an angel is mentioned in undertale is when you talk to gerson about the delta rune emblem; apparently the other bleaker take on the angel is an angel of death who’s a harbinger of destruction. SO ITS REAL INTERESTING I THINK that in the deltarune prophecy, it mentions that when the trio restores balance, they will “banish the angel’s heaven?” and somehow even after we closed the fountain (which btw i’m not convinced it worked) we don’t know what that means or what it’s referring to. but if we’re going off of the thought that undertale’s “angel” is asriel...... we bring in the theories about ralsei and asriel having something to do with each other, considering their names being anagrams and looking somewhat similar. also the fact that theyre probably related and asriel will make an appearance in the game in the future makes me nervous about that. THIS COULD BE A THING! WHO KNOWS. just wanted to point it out as well even though i don’t think it has anything to do with gaster.

ANYWAYS THIS IS A MESS but those are my thoughts on the ways that undertale and deltarune are related!!! and if anyone wants to add their thoughts feel free, i’m open to discussion

#undertale #deltarune #god damn #gaster #w.d. gaster #kris deltarune #asriel dreemurr #ralsei #delta rune #i tried proofreading and god my adhd brain says NO READ. ONLY WRITE #so i apologize if i messed something up lol

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