#For Cass it's because of the sibling relationship with Barbara

[bet-on-me-13]

If Jack is Bruce, then maybe Maddie is...

So! In most stories where Jack Fenton is an alternate universe version of Bruce Wayne, they have Maddie as an Alternate Talia or Selena. But I propose a different path.

We already have another Red-Headed, Serious, good a fighting, can keep Bruce in check, person in Gotham that we can use.

Maddie Fenton, is a Genderswapped version of Commissioner Gordon.

She's a little younger than her alternate self, and much crazier, but otherwise she's pretty much identical to him. No Nonsense, Intelligent, Caring, Protective, and wanting to make the World/Gotham a better place for their Kid(s).

This of course means that Jazz is an alternate Barabara, and Danny is either an alternate Damien or an Alternate Cass (since Barbara and Cass have a sibling-type relationship)

Just a fun idea I had.

[snowcoming]

excuse me but dick's siblings can not read him better than the original teen titans. his siblings might read his body language better (especially cass) but they won't recognize- can't recognize dick's expressions like donna, garth, wally and roy can.

there's no way. the fab five have known dick for an insanely long amount of time, and perhaps the only other person is barbara.

like i know you guys love your sibling relationships, but like seriously? the fab five have known each other for an insanely long amount of time there's no need to pretend that they wouldn't understand dick like he's part of their own soul. because they would. you don't go through so much with some people and not know each other like they're parts of you. because at that point, they are.

[scriptseekstories]

Queen Bee mom decides to at least tolerate Bruce when they live together. Her presence helps improve the relationship between her son and the batfam. But she can be strict about certain things, she is not happy about the boys being vigilantes. She did relent (barely) but only by having strict rules, if they get hurt, they're off patrol and grounded until the end of the week.

And everything that happened with Jason, she was furious with Bruce, refusing to speak for a long time. But when she learned Jason was alive, she put an end to that Red Hood business. She tracked him down (help from her modified bees) and dragged him back to the manor. She was scolding him for being reckless, for attempting to hurt her son, and for thinking that she would ever try to replace one of her boys. Things got better at the manor (sort of), he doesn't constantly argue with Bruce, mainly because Mom has good hearing.

That is if Momma Bee even tolerates the Batkids too lmao.

Maybe she will, only because she learns that not only Bruce but Alfred (because Alfred legit was the problem for most of the Batkids being Robin but people ain’t ready for that conversation-) had these poor orphan barely aged teens being taken in (Or Tim’s case he basically blackmailed Bruce lmao) to fight crime.

Not only that she finds out that it led to many of them being killed or crippled, ohhhhh boy she ain’t ever letting you NEAR that man.

And in your ask, (M/N) finding out Jason was still alive was way back years ago before (Name) was 16, so the timeline is a bit off (I’ll be writing down the complete timeline sometime in the future to prevent any confusion) so by the time (M/N) becomes Momma Queen Bee, Jason would’ve been back alive again.

If she learned that it was Joker who killed Jason, the mere thought of that clown running around alive trying to hurt others with their loved ones, especially if he ever harmed you?? Giiiiirl, he would be a gushing pile of blood cuz she slamming her fist down on him.

Bro would totally let it happen cuz he that freaky

But either way, she’ll be lenient towards the Batkids, since the bad things they did to you never happened in this Au, she wouldn’t really find a reason to turn her back on them.

If you managed to convince your mom that living in the manor is better than in the warehouse, mostly because she’s too damn big for it, she’ll agree and Bruce would internally and external praise you, hugging you while crying

Which the sudden affection from this absent made you wanna-:

Anyways, the kids would be THRILLED to have you both in the Manor.

Dick is already planning all sorts of fun siblings bonding events and mother and son memories, Jason is slowly inching closer to your mom with Pride and Prejudice in his hand, wanting her to read to him and wants you to see him as the greatest brother ever (Dick can… well eat a dick)

Tim wants to find out everything about you so he drags you to play games with him and Steph, who is excited to see if you could beta her in Mario Kart (You ate shit but she lets you win so it’s okay), Cass silently watches Momma Bee, wide eyed and in awe at how beautiful she was as she was like 👉🏻👈🏻 🥺 because she never had a mom before, and hides in the shadows watching you as well since you’re her tiny sibling to protect. (Damien too)

Duke would still be like from the original, listening endlessly to your ramblings, eyes bright as he watched you get so excited, hands flapping and dramatically moving around. Barbara hadn’t had a mother figure in her life, so the moment Momma Bee placed her giant hand over the hacker’s head with such ventless and praised her, poor baby teared up.

And Damien… He got two moms now. He viciously writes letters to Talia about his newly acquired Goddess Bee mom and sibling, where he always barges into your room and demands you both bond by either watching him train or you two in the garden.

Momma Bee is apprehensive of Bruce and Alfred, but knows they truly care about you, and you need all the support in your life, so she glares at them intently as you also hesitantly agree to bond with the family.

If not? (Name) got them on sight like this:

It’s all a very strange family, but it’s the one you got, and you couldn’t ask for a better one (Just kidding you always do, and Talia or Ivy might take up on that wish and swoon your mother)

Taglist: @pix-stuff @jellystar-star @moon0goddess @bad4amficideas @lettucel0ver @lithiumval @degenerates-posts @ryuushou @deathbynarcisstick @silverklaus @artistwithcreativeburnout @middevil465 @jsprien213 @1abi @oliviaewl @redkarmakai @nxdxsworld @the-dumber-scaramouche @sc3n3mo-t3to @tw-om-gi-hs-56387 @bunniotomia @welpthisisboring @rad4bean @ithoughtthinks @reeyy0-2 @ceramic-raven @danart501 @esposadomd @trashlanternfish360 @jjoppees @nervousalpacalady @eyeless-kun @pinkcloudcat

[deadsetobsessions]

Your name is Tim Drake and you are nine years old.

Today, tomorrow, and soon, you're going to save Robin.

----

Tim stares at his reflection on the sink tap. It trembles, along with the plane, as he contemplates his situation.

His face is rounder, now, with unfamiliar baby-fat rounding out the sharp lines he'd come to expect. Even with the subpar reflection, Tim can tell that his dark eyebags are all but gone, replaced with youthful skin.

Magic. He's being quite literal, seeing as he's been tossed into the body of his younger self at the hands of a crazed magician.

He could find a way back... or he could create a completely different timeline by fixing everything that went wrong. It's not like he has anything to go back to, anyways. That crazed magician was actually competent and killed everyone he ever cared about. Tim barely got away with his life. He could go back to save that shell of a world- surrounded by people whose minds were broken beyond magical and medical repair- or stay here, fix his own personal troubles and cut off the magician before he could start with his world domination bullshit.

Well, Tim already has an idea of what he wants. So he begins a list, after having oriented himself.

Save Robin

There's no point trying to convince Bruce that he knows where Jason's being held. So, Tim finds himself on a plane to Ethiopia a day before Jason's meant to die. This was long before Barbara even thought of being Oracle, and the tech is ancient in his hands. In short order, nine year old Tim has a trust fund with millions in it, all siphoned from billionaires like Lex Luthor and his own parents.

Tim toddles back to his seat, after washing his hands because he still can't shake the extra bit of paranoia that came with a missing spleen. Oh. Tim blinks guilelessly at his seat neighbor, smiling like Timothy Drake, Angel of a Son as he reels from the realization that he still has his spleen.

Tim adds another box to his list:

Keep Ra's away from my spleen, creepy bastard.

What else...? Ah, the League of Assassins.

Damian

Tim pauses. Holy crap. Damian's only six right now. Tim moves Damian's box upwards in urgency. Tim might have a mildly antagonistic relationship with his younger brother back then, but he wants baby pictures of his siblings, dammit. He's gonna put that photography expertise to good use if it's the last thing he does.

Watch over Z, Owens, Pru

'They're alive!' His mind screams. Cold rationality slaps the sentimentality down with a quick 'But they won't be if I fail.'

His mind wanders to Dick Grayson. He scowls as something pops up in the back of his head.

Catalina Flores

Contact Nightwing- in space

He's gotta call Dick back from that Teen Titans mission, Jason's gonna need all of the support he's going to get.

Find Cass

Train Steph

Save Duke's family from Venom

Tim taps at that last point. He'll save them. But that might mean Duke might never join their family.

But he'll be happy and Tim... will deal with it. He'll be the only one mourning, anyways. To end on a lighter note, he adds something that he should have done ages ago.

Give Tam a raise.

Tim sighs as he gets out of the airport, the hired escort he found and vetted, delivering him to a predetermined hotel. They think his parents are already inside. He laughs and does not say anything to make them think otherwise. He has so many things to do, Tim laments as he settles down to track the Joker's movements. Here. That's where Jason's being held. Being tortured.

He can, however, knock two things off his list in one go. Tim picks up the burner phone he acquired. He doesn't have time, or else he would have done this sooner and saved them all the trouble.

[RR: Are you in Ethiopia yet?]

[Deathstroke: Payment confirmed. In Ethiopia.]

[RR: Third building by the docks.]

An hour.

[Deathstroke: Confirmed. Target spotted.]

Ten minutes.

[Deathstroke: Target eliminated. Bringing Robin to Safehouse.]

Twenty minutes.

[Deathstroke: Basic first aid applied. Leaving.]

[RR: Secondary payment sent. Confirm?]

[Deathstroke: Confirmed. Pleasure doing business with you.]

Tim sprawls on the king bed. He sighs a breath of relief. He'd check on Jason in person, if he weren't paranoid about leaving traces that would get back to him. Tim's pretty sure that Deathstroke's going to get hunted down in the near future, regardless, so he made sure to add a huge tip on top of the extra fees for burning one of Deathstroke's safe houses and the emergency first aid. He taps into the rudimentary camera Deathstroke had given him the access codes to, to stare at Jason's rising and falling chest. On a further table, the Joker's head laid in a preservation box.

He bypasses all of the security on the Teen Titan's tech to send Dick a message.

[Robin has been retrieved from the Joker. Contact Batman for details.]

Then, he sends Bruce the location of the safe house. Tim spends the rest of the day staring at Jason and watching his father in another timeline break as he huddles close to the broken body of Tim's Robin.

Timothy Drake destroys the burner phone.

[ultimate-marysue]

Thinking about siblings and such and how the Batfam are all only children roleplaying being siblings. Like, most of them even after being adopted into the family don't share space with each other. Dick has the problem of trying to develop a sibling relationship with an adult sibling that's already independent. Which is funny because he's the most invested in having relationships with his siblings.

The next best bet for Sibling Relationship would be Damian and Tim since they have technically been minors under Bruce's care at the same time...but after the whole Red Robin arc Tim also goes mostly independent. And before becoming Robin him and Tim are not accepting each other as siblings. Cass spends most of the time under Bab's care, so even if she's Bruce's daughter, she's not necessarily sharing space with the boys.

So, extracting Dick from the equation the dynamic is so fucking hysterical: they're all Bruce's children, most of them are Dick's siblings but Cass is Dick's ex's/girlfriend's daughter. They have lived at the manor like ships passing in the night, which means: barely shared a living space. Most of their interactions are through working as vigilantes. One of them used to be a rogue, then a renegade anti hero but now it's back to working with them???

If you subscribe to the "Thalia mentally adopts Jason" version then it's even funnier because then Damian and Jason share a mother (maybe that makes them more sibling like? Maybe not) that Dick has beef with and Tim has beef with their grandpa??? Lady Shiva did train Tim, does that make him and Cass more sibling like??? They seem to be closer but as I believe I've made apparent by now: this is so fucking convoluted. There's also Duke Thomas, who Bruce fosters but who very much has alive parents (at least his mother has been cured by now), and Stephanie Brown and Barbara Gordon who are totally unrelated to the family but have dated members of it and are good friends with others...

To conclude: Thanksgiving has to be hilarious.

(This is all a generalization and maybe at some point I will make an actual meta with exact references but my brain hurts and I refuse to make sense of the timeline today.)

[fenrir-wolf-of-gotham]

My least favorite thing about Barbara being reduced to Batgirl over and over is that she was absolutely the equal to Bruce during her Oracle era. Some people may disagree but, whenever she's Oracle, Bruce always seems to treat her at least somewhat more equal to himself in the structure of the team. She's understood as being an equal partner in the running of the team.

The attempt to make the Batfamily more "nuclear," as in the term nuclear family, has always been slightly upsetting to me because that's never going to happen. The Batfamily should be messy and their relationships to each other should not be static "father and son/daughter" or "siblings". Its fun to imagine that sometimes but its more interesting if you throw that out the window.

Bruce is the father and Barbara is the mom but Barbara is also like a daughter or a sister in some ways, they've never been together, and she sometimes dates his son.

Dick is like a brother to all of them but he's more like a cool uncle to Cass (except for that time he victim blamed her but shut up that isn't canon) and Damian.

Steph is just a really close friend of the family except for Damian who she's basically the big sister of.

Jason barely tolerates everyone else.

Etcetera.

The writers need to just accept the family is messy because making the relationships simpler is more generic than what they should be and lessens them.

[rizzanon]

undoing fate is so good omg

the idea that it's so obvious to reader that these people bond the most or even exclusively in the mask (and tbf it's a decent assessment of their social lives)

and them all seeing her as someone who wouldn't be able to handle fighting crime and trying to protect her but it being rejection to her because how else do they bond? she'd tried everything else before the lie was revealed! do they just not see her as worthy? they always say she's not ready but is it just an excuse? (it is) do they not want her around?

and their perspectives are so flawed but reasonable (from their perspective and emotional intelligence/understanding lol)

reader realizing that you can fight to the death for something and still not have anything to show for it.

dick realizing that his rebellious teenage phase and the reveal were both massive strains and stephanie being batgirl was the final fray on a bond that's only hanging on by a thread (if it's still there at all) and him not knowing how to fix it because he's never had a relationship go so sour that a charismatic smile and a bit of sweet talking couldn't help smooth over the rough patch

(and babs realizing that choosing one over the other, while easier also means you're gonna lose that relationship if you don't go back to buildup anything)

bruce getting hit in the face with the fact that holding someone at arms length means you're not going to be close *shocked pikachu face* and that eventually they're going to tire of trying to close the distance and just let it grow

tim realizing that he never let there be anything so he isn't sure what they are but he hates it because he thought they were siblings! he wants them to be siblings

damian thinking that her quitting is her giving up and still wanting to fight alongside her which turns into a fight that they both apologized and made up for!! (and now he can get his hair ruffled and some deserts and they talk and joke and he's going to get a good grade in little brother which both normal to want and possible to achieve)

and i really wanna comment on jason and cass but we haven't gotten to them yet and i can't wait

i read everything so far and cried so much and this became way longer than i originally planned on writing and it's very messy sorry

bro i couldn’t have phrased it any better, you perfectly summarised everything that i wanted to show in these past few chapters 😭🫶🫶

this made me even more motivated to write chapter 8 because surprise not surprise, jason’s gonna be a main one (and spoilers—barbara too—but i have a feeling yall will either hate her even more or understand her pov better after the chapter drops so 😬)

[brucewaynehater101]

AU - Ra's al Ghul being a grandfather to all of the Wayne kids

During their ongoing petty battles, Tim makes the mistake of calling Ra's "grandpa" as an insult. He meant it as a term to call the man old.

Ra's did not take it this way.

After being called "grandpa" by his rival/desired heir (pt. 3), he starts to wonder if all of Bruce's kids consider him to be their grandfather (they do not).

Cue Ra's al Ghul picking up grandparent guidebooks and trying to implement the advice. Because he's so out of touch with reality and society (he's a 600 year old assassin cult leader), he doesn't implement them correctly.

His go to method for hangouts with any of the Wayne kids is kidnapping. They don't know he's just trying to spend time with them. There's a ton of miscommunication.

Ra's quickly learns that if he has grandfather-grandchild time with Damian by himself, the Waynes.... overreact (they're not overreacting. They think Ra's is kidnapping Damian for some nefarious plot). Ra's then starts kidnapping Damian with one of his siblings for group hangouts.

He also will have grandfather-grandchildren days when Talia visits Bruce. He wants them to be able to spend time without the kids interrupting (even if the kids are in another country from Bruce, Ra's still kidnap them. Talia is also going to Bruce to beat him up for Damian instead of a date. Ra's thinks it's just their relationship dynamic).

The old man also spends a lot of time debating what makes someone a Wayne kid. Bruce's adoption habit makes this needlessly more difficult. He eventually lands on only considering those Damian claims as his siblings as his grandchildren.

It gets to the point that Ra's al Ghul even starts lecturing Bruce when he's being an ass to the grandkids.

How Ra's spoils his grandkids:

Damian - Ra's sets up a bunch of animal sanctuaries around the world. He takes the kid to all of them and seriously implements all of his ideas. He also sends him expensive, rare art supplies that can double as weapons (Damian thought the paints doubling as poison were fun to use).

Jason - The Outlaws get access to a bunch of weapons and gear. He also occasionally provides assistance or information.

Tim - Ra's doesn't do anything different. They already "hang out" a ton when Tim is in a petty and vindictive mood (Tim tries to fuck up Ra's day and the ancient bastard sees it as a bonding activity).

Cass - Ra's, after seeing that Cass sometimes experiences issues communicating with civilians, starts funding organizations that increase accessibility. He also attends every single recital she has.

Duke - Ra's provides access to his research material so that Duke might be able to find a way to help his parents. He also buys him really expensive glasses and blackout curtains to help with his migraines

Steph - The old man will gift wrap people who were shitty to Steph so that she can beat them up or get revenge. Her many hobbies (gaming, gymnastics, music, etc.) get funded as well.

Dick - Ra's either kidnaps Dick with a sibling he hasn't seen for a bit (allowing Dick to have quality time), or he'll enforce self care days for the acrobat.

Barbara - She is helped by the same organizations that help Cass, but Ra's usually just provides her with information the Birds of Prey can use.

[fancyfeathers]

Daughter reader that is keen on physical affection!...Just not to the boys in the family. Her mother? Absolutely! Stephanie? Yes! Cass, Kate, and Barbara too. But the men and boys? No. I fear they would be very disappointed and force it. To which Daughter!Reader would probably yell "Get off me I didn't give consent!!!!" so Cass can wrestle her out of any grip. Since it's cannon in mostly all DC storylines that Cass is stronger than Bruce I would like to think that makes her Mother!Reader and Daughter!Reader's favorite out of all the family. Because Daughter!Reader thinks, maybe, just maybe if she cries enough Cass will keep her from the other "siblings". Possibly also convince Stephanie to let her go to a park or something fun! Then the boys are just stuck watching from the shadows as Daughter!Reader somehow creates a cuddle pile consisting of herself, Stephanie, Cass, Kate, and- Barbara??(They still don't know how she got all of them to agree but kudos I suppose.) Of course lastly Mother!Reader sitting comfortably in the middle. Thank you for reading my ask! - 🐈‍⬛ Anon

Yandere Batfam w/ Wife/Mother!Darling & Daughter/Sister!Darling Masterlist

YES! OMG YES!

Like the boys, Cass and Stephanie completely view themselves as Daughter!Darling’s sisters and Mother!Darling’s (adoptive)daughters. There is just something about mothers, daughters, and sister relationships that are different than with fathers and brothers.

Sure they all would still be protective of them but when they see Damian taking his overprotective behavior too far to where he threatened a boy she kissed or the punishment she got for getting in a fight and breaking the helpless narrative Bruce and the joys have on her, they all are a little perplexed. Sure, they couldn’t never stand a chance with the threats that the Bat Family faces during the night and that is why they needs to keep them safe, but protect her from kissing a classmate or from getting in a fight with a bully, things that are bound to happen? Absolutely not, sure a serious relationship is something else completely and she should tell one of them about a bully, but they can’t treat it like a Joker level threat.

Also I love the idea of Kate being like that cool aunt figure to Daughter!Darling (even though she is like her first cousin, once removed). Like sure she has unhealthy tendencies towards her but you know, she treats her like her age, takes her prom dress shopping when she is a Junior and Senior (and then proceeds to sneak her out to drive her to said prom, cause like hell Bruce would let her go because she would have date), take her and the other girls out to movies, and probably teach her to the fight with the help of Stephanie and Cass (basic self defense, maybe a bit of hand to hand combat, but only to defend herself when no one was there yet, nothing on their level).

One of the only times Daughter!Darling would willingly let the boys show her physical affection is when she was sent to stay with Dick as punishment for getting in a fist fight with one of her classmates, that ended up in her not being allowed to see her mother and not allowed to leave Dick’s side. So at night she share a bed with Dick, and since Barbara and Dick are dating, when she was over this meant sleeping between the two of them.

But then when she is back at the manor and let’s say Tim makes the mistake of resting his head on her shoulder and wrapping his arms around her waist when Cass was home because it only took one scream for Tim to be grabbed by the collar and thrown to the ground and has to watch as Cass picks her up and carries her away while she signs thank you to Cass with one hand and flips Tim off with the other.

That brings me to my next point, Cass definitely teaches Daughter!Darling sign language. In my mind Cass can speak, just not well because of her birth father and his training and such, she just prefers to sign and so Daughter!Darling learns, saying she wants to make Cass most comfortable. In reality it is to sort of bump up her relationship with Cass, make allies. Cass knows this, it’s written in her body language, but the two get to spend time together so she does not really mind.

Then Stephanie and Barbara are like those two really fun big sisters (honorary sister for Barbara). They will pick her up from school early, along with bringing Cass along, saying she has a doctor’s appointment or something, and leave Damian at school and just text him when he calls a million times wondering where his little sister is and just…

“Oh we took her out early, sisters’ day.”

Do they get in trouble for it later, sure, but they take her out to get her nails done, lunch, a movie, a run to get candy that she’s not allowed to have because Bruce is a whole other level of protective that he won’t even let her health be put in the slightest bit of risk. They hide the contrabands in their bags and no they can’t be checked because they come up with different excuses each time, the most memorable being from Stephanie that she started her first period and their bags were full of products for her. Then after that they had to fake stain pads with red food coloring so that if anyone looked in the trash they wouldn’t get suspicious, but everyone knew it was a lie because they all are practically detectives, but once or twice wouldn’t hurt as long as the brothers got affection as payment for not telling Bruce.

Then just like sisters, they are there when she goes through a really, really, really bad and messy break up, like her boyfriend turned out to be a horrible person, obsessed with her,,, and may or may not have been a member of the Court of Owls and almost sent a Talon to kidnap her.

Ya… it was bad.

Right after this, Bruce and the boys are more worried about securing the manor so nothing can get in and take her along with ways to keep her hidden away so no one would be able to find her.

Then when Bruce is going to her room to tell her about Tim’s idea that they are going to do of putting a tracker in her spine which could also track her vitals and-

He just stops in the doorway when he sees his daughter crying while being held by her mother, the two of them wrapped up in a blanket with Cass brushing her hair, Kate doing her nails, Barbara wiping away her tears with tissues she has on standby, and Stephanie runs into the room while carrying a stash of candy and junk food in her arms. Bruce looks at his wife who is holding their daughter while she gets doted on and just looks him dead in the eye…

“I was just like her when I broke up with you for the first time when I called off our engagement… she’ll be okay, after all I was before you came back.”

The door gets shut in his face by Kate when she finally tea he is there, telling him too come back later when she feels better.

[gravebirds0dmnk]

DAMIAN WAYNE RANT

Once again!!

Damian Wayne is not just a bratty, murderous goblin child who hates everyone except his dad and his cat. The fandom loves to flatten him into this one-note "feral gremlin" who snarls at everyone and occasionally gets chucked off a rooftop for laughs. But if you actually read the comics, his dynamic with the Bat-family , especially his siblings..is a lot more layered, meaningful, and dare I say... human?

Dick Grayson (Nightwing):

Canon Damian sees Dick as a role model. Period. End of story. Dick was the first person who treated Damian like more than a weapon. He gave him a chance to be Robin, he mentored him, he made fun of him like a real older brother would - and Damian grew for it. He mourned Dick deeply when he was presumed dead, to the point that it shattered him. But fandom? Nah. Let’s just make Damian constantly call him “Grayson” like a snob and ignore all the warmth and growth. Or make him his father figure when he's obviously not!!

Tim Drake (Red Robin):

Okay, yes - these two butted heads hard. The early animosity is real, and it makes sense. Tim felt replaced, and Damian felt defensive and superior. But even that evolved! They’ve saved each other’s lives multiple times. They’ve come to respect each other, even if grudgingly. Damian has acknowledged Tim’s intellect and leadership. But fandom loves to freeze them in that "I tried to kill you once so we must always be enemies" phase, forever.

Jason Todd (Red Hood):

Now this one is where fandom either completely ignores it or just makes it into the “edgy murder bros” trope. But in canon, Jason and Damian have bonded. They both have complicated relationships with Bruce. They both hate authority sometimes. Jason has gone out of his way to help Damian in more recent comics, and Damian has trusted Jason when he wouldn’t trust anyone else. But fandom wants Damian to be scared of Jason or constantly annoyed by him for some reason?

Barbara, Steph, Cass, Duke, etc.:

This is where the fandom just gets lazy. Damian’s relationships withthe extended Bat-family are often nuanced and evolving. He’s had sweet moments with Barbara as Oracle, and his interactions with Steph and Cass (especially post-Rebirth) are often respectful. Damian clearly values Duke and even helped him during the Robin War" stuff. But fandom? Let’s erase all of that and just make Damian a sexist, rude little troll to all women and a lone wolf to everyone else.

Bottom line:

Canon Damian Wayne is a work in progress. That’s the whole point of his arc - he was raised to be a killer and chose to be a hero. His journey is messy and difficult, but it’s full of growth, love, and actual relationships with the people around him. The Bat-family, dysfunctional as they are, is his family. He fights for them, mourns them, learns from them.

Fandom Damian? Often just a punchline or a one-dimensional trope.

Let the kid be complicated. Let him grow. And for the love of Gotham, stop acting like he’s never hugged anyone in his life.

I am begging the fandom to make up its damn mind.

Is Damian Wayne a violent little goblin child who kicks puppies and bullies everyone in his path - or is he a soft, baby-faced toddler who can’t lift a sword without help and needs to be swaddled by every older Bat-sibling in sight?

Because I swear, the whiplash is real.

Let’s start with “uwu baby Damian” syndrome:

This version of Damian is everywhere. The one who’s four feet tall and always sobbing. The one who can’t tie his own shoes but calls Bruce “Father” like a formal Victorian orphan. The one who is basically just a house cat in a cape, curled up in Dick’s lap with his eyes big and sad because someone said “no.”

And look, I get it — young Damian moments can be adorable. He has his sweet scenes. He’s been through hell. Seeing him relax with a pet or accept a hug can be genuinely moving.

But when fandom strips away all his sharpness, his intelligence, his pride, and yes, his snark, just to turn him into a plush toy that needs cuddles and protection from the world, it’s not just inaccurate - it’s insulting. Damian isn’t soft by default. He chooses compassion despite his upbringing. That’s what makes it powerful.

Then there’s “bully Damian,” aka pure Gremlin Core:

This is the version of Damian who never grew past his first dozen issues - the one who tried to stab Tim, called everyone beneath him, and needed a muzzle at all times. Fandom loves to make him the mean little kid who mocks everyone and has zero emotional intelligence.

He’s always the problem. He’s the one who “ruins” family dinners. He’s never learning, never softening, never changing.

Do y’all just not read comics past 2011? Like seriously??

Because here’s the truth: Damian Wayne is both. He’s complex. He’s a product of being raised by assassins and then adopted into a family of emotionally stunted vigilantes. He’s a genius, he’s arrogant, he’s twelve years old and figuring out who he is - and sometimes he screws up, badly. But he also has heart. He loves his family, fiercely and awkwardly. He shows growth. He learns humility. He grieves. He sacrifices. He becomes a better person.

And fandom constantly shoving him into either “misunderstood cinnamon roll” or “demon spawn tormentor” completely erases what makes him interesting.

He’s not your emotional support baby.

He’s not your chaos gremlin for comedic relief. He does not bite people

He’s a character with layers - and he deserves to be written like one.

--

Why is it that every time fandom finds a close, emotional bond -especially in the Batfamily - someone has to ruin it by shipping it?

Seriously. The Batfamily is made up of siblings, adopted kids, traumatized teens, and a dad who can barely handle his own emotions. But somehow, people look at Bruce and Dick, or Tim and Damian, and go, “Yeah, that should be romantic.”

No. It shouldn’t.

Batcest isn’t “deep,” it’s not “exploring dark dynamics,” and it’s definitely not some brilliant subversion of tropes. It’s just weird. The Batfamily works because they are a messy, complicated family learning to love and support each other. Turning that into shipping fuel is a huge slap in the face to what these characters are actually about.

And let’s talk about proshippers who act like they’re fighting for free speech or artistic integrity by defending these ships. You're not standing on some grand moral hill - you’re just defending the right to post gross, tone-deaf content. Nobody’s stopping you from enjoying angst or morally gray stories. But there's a huge difference between writing flawed characters and turning adoptive siblings into a romance plot.

Also, can we stop with the “aged-up Damian” excuse? If you have to age him up just to make your ship barely legal, that should be a sign. You’re not clever -you’re just side-stepping the fact that he’s a kid in almost every version of canon.

The Batfamily already has a thousand ways to be messy and dramatic and interesting. You don’t need to force romance between family members to make it compelling. These characters are rich with story..why flatten them into shock-value shipping?

You want to write drama? Betrayals? Complicated emotional arcs? Go for it. But maybe, just maybe , keep it in-character, in-universe, and not in the realm of “hey what if these siblings kissed?”

It's not edgy. It's not cool. It's just... tired.

Do better.

....

Everyone loves to slap the “Best Dad Ever” badge on Bruce Wayne - especially in fanon. And look, sure: he took in a bunch of traumatized kids, gave them homes, trained them, and cares deeply in his own broody, emotionally-stunted way. But can we talk about how all that dad energy seems to magically vanish when it comes to Damian?

Let’s be clear: Bruce is not abusive to Damian. He’s not cruel. But if we’re being honest? He’s not the father Damian needed either - at least not consistently.

Bruce adopted Dick, Tim, Jason, and Cass under tragic circumstances, but once they were under his wing, he fought for them. He took time (as best he could) to emotionally connect. Even with Jason, whose arc is full of tension, Bruce has shown deep remorse, grief, and desire to make amends.

But with Damian? The literal biological son who was raised by assassins and came to his doorstep at age ten?

Bruce treats him like a soldier first, a liability second, and a child maybe third - if he remembers.

Damian came into Bruce’s life wanting one thing: a father. Not a mission. Not another cape. Not a training regimen. Just a father. He may not have known how to express it (because, again, he was raised in a cult by a mother who taught him love = loyalty = survival), but he wanted love and structure — and Bruce didn’t give it to him.

Instead, Bruce gave him expectations. Be better. Don't kill. Be a Wayne. Be a Robin. Be like your brothers. Don’t embarrass the legacy.

That’s not parenting. That’s PR.

And the fandom? Just sweeps it under the rug. We write fics where Bruce is the perfect dad making pancakes for everyone, but we forget that Damian spent years trying to earn what his siblings got automatically: validation. Trust. Love.

Bruce has grown with Damian, yes. They've had incredible moments. But you can’t call Bruce the ultimate Batdad without admitting that his approach to Damian was stiff, late, and sometimes cold - not out of malice, but out of ignorance of what Damian actually needed.

And that’s the tragedy. Not that Bruce didn’t love him, but that Bruce didn’t know how to show it - and Damian felt the gap like a knife.

Bruce may be a “good father” to many of his kids. But for Damian? He was a father who had to learn, and too often, he was late to class.

[star-steph06]

It's gonna sound silly if you don't have any but if you do, random batfam headcanons (especially steph, cass, duke, tim, damian) GO

Not silly at all, I don’t have many but you’ll probably see when you’re done reading this that I have more for certain members than others 😭

Steph: she has freckles like totally sunkissed freckles that scatter all across her body. I feel like she tans but has more of a rosy tan instead of a deeper color. She loves children, because well…but anyways I think she would dye her hair and have tinsel in them for a sparkle or a hint of color. Roller derby. I loveee to headcanon that she’s amazing at it and enjoys the sport. Oh and piercings I love to think that she wears tons of chunky jewelry. Has big curly hair that she didn’t know how to take care of when she was younger. Loves hanging out with Barbara and sneaking into Kates place to bother her or ask for advice.

Cass: I know it’s canon but she loves to do ballet. She loves to spar with her siblings especially the younger ones because she likes to share her skills and teach them what she knows in a healthier way than she was taught. Wears Chinese tunics that are gifted from her mother. Wears a mixed of gold and silver jewelry. Goes to therapy…can’t cook like at all it astounds her how a simply thing can be hard. Knits 😭 or does some sort of craft like knitting or pottery.

Tim: uses a silly straw when drinking his energy drinks (he isn’t a coffee addict yall) he listens to all sorts of music and has a messed up playlist. He can sit and work on something without moving for hours (couldn’t be me) I don’t think he’s a party person sorry but I don’t know if he does the entire party scene, but he LOVES having friends over and then partying with them. Skate boards to work 😭

Duke: he is the most cunning in a way. His favorite color isnt even yellow 😭 I’m kidding but that would be funny. The criminals are afraid of him they see him coming in the day??? Oh hell no. He can play the piano and is very good at it. Him and his mother used to teach him. He can cook and he cooks with Damian, he was the one who initiated it. He’s extremely extremely respectful to woman. He likes watching old western movies when he was little he was a cowboy for Halloween. Has locks and teaches his family (the ones with curls) ways to keep their hair healthy. He collects playing card but like yugioh cards and other stuff like that, he loves sailor moon and old 90s anime.

Damian: he can sing very well 😭 idk why but if he can mimic voices perfectly I feel like he can sing. When he has an argument with Bruce or anyone in the family he will leave and fly away with Goliath or Wiggles, sometimes even having them “attack” said family member but it’s only like them flopping on the person. Had a pet tiger in the league (it was Talia’s) and played with the cubs. Since his hair is getting longer I want to say that Nika or a friend gets him claw clips as a joke but he actually wears them. He can play instruments and likes to do graffiti sometimes. Wears ONLY gold jewelry. He has matching outfits with him and Talia 😭 if he gets into a relationship he’s not the one breaking up with them because he loves HARD. And like Duke he pulls his hair and when he lets others do it for him it’s like a great achievement 😭😭

Jason: he’s a loser. I mean it I think he’s so recluse and likes to huddle into the library and read. He’s big hulking even and loves to use that to his advantage when he’s being annoying to his siblings by lying on them. Struggles to find clothes his size so he wears the ugliest lounge clothes. Loves reality tv or any cheesy movie.

Dick: grows his hair out and every time he does a sudden chop the family looks at him with fear and disgust like how children do when their father shaves their face 😭 HE CAN COOK I know he can cook. Also wears chunky jewelry but doesn’t have a set style. Watches old footage of him and his parents acts and cries everytime. Visits zitka. I like to think he still performs on his down time or at least practice and keeps up the skill of being an acrobatic performer.

I hope that was good! Sorry for the ugly grammar I’m rapid firing this. 😭

[galaxymagitech]

4 and 5 for the meta ask game!!

Hi :) Thank you for the ask!

4. Share a sentence or paragraph from your writing that you’re really proud of (explain why, if you like)

But Dick Grayson is nine years old, and the child in Bruce’s heart is—and forever will be—eight.

from Petrify Me

5. What character that you’re writing do you most identify with?

This is a really tricky one, because I've found something I identify with in each Batkid, so I project onto each of them for a different reason. I identify with Dick's conflicts with Bruce and not ever being able to fit things neatly into boxes. And also his early relationship with Jason, where he "fails" at being a good older sibling, but it's also not really his responsibility to be there, despite everyone acting like it is, and feeling guilty about not being a good sibling later on. I identify with Jason through feeling like a monster, or like I ruin everything around me (...also Dick on that one, I guess), or just...general intrusive thoughts. And control issues. I identify with Tim in terms of his general approach to problems and thought processes, plus his depression and nerdiness, and also give him my imposter syndrome and sometimes my autism. I always give Damian my autism, especially "rigid" thought processes, and identify with his deep sense of empathy that never seems to make it to the surface-level sympathy. I identify with Cass's communication difficulties, with the sanctity of her mind being violated, with the narratives around her about her disability being "fixed", and her determination.

But ultimately, I'm probably most similar to Barbara, from my control issues to my interests (books! code!) to my personality.

[littlefankingdom]

Okay, I keep seeing this post and it had, like, 900 notes last time, so I need to respond.

Yes, Steph and Barbara are part of the batfam.

This fandom seems to not fucking understand what a found family is. A found family doesn't follow the traditional family's dynamic. People aren't blood related or legally related. Have y'all never seen a friend group in a media being referred as a found family?! That doesn't mean they are siblings, or that some of them are the parents, or that they cannot date. It just means that they are close like a family should, that they can depend on each other always and forever like a family should. Whatever happens, they are a family.

Found family is LITERALLY one of th theme of Batman. The batfam has ALWAYS been a found family. All these people who lost their blood family and found each other to fight for justice. Bruce lost his family when he was a kid, he is building a new one from the ground, and a family isn't just his children. Bruce and Alfred are not blood related, and Alfred is barely referred to as Bruce's father-figure in anything Batman related. However, he was always seen as Bruce's family. Bruce also sees some members of the Justice League as his family (Clark, for example). Lucius and Leslie have also always been his family, and Lucius is not his father at all, the man has another family, a traditional one, but he is still in the batfam. Dick spend DECADES not being adopted, but he still considered Bruce and Alfred his family. Dick also sees the Titans as his family, that doesn't make his teammates his siblings or stops him from dating them. Tim, even tho he is not Bruce's son and has a family, is referred by Dick as "his brother". Dick and Tim literally DID NOT want to be adopted by Bruce, but the man and his butler were still family for them, even when they did NOT want Bruce as their father. Cass and Bruce go through all Batgirl (2000) having a father-daughter coded relationship, and Cass and Barbara have a mother-daughter coded relationship, and her biological parents are there sometimes, and she isn't Bruce's daughter yet. Cass is both Bruce and Barbara's daughter. Barbara has always been seen as a part of the batfam since she first appeared, before a lot of us were even born, and it's not because she is Bruce's daughter or dating Dick, it's because the bats are a family that don't give a shit about traditional family's dynamic. Damian is the only one who actually call Bruce "Father", most of the time the others don't. Dick has lived 20 years with Bruce in his life, as his father-figure, and he never calls him "Dad". Some comics don't even referred to anyone than Damian as Bruce's kid. Some comics like to remind everyone that Bruce is Dick and Tim's father, but most of them do not. Most of the time, they are just a bunch of young people and teens living on his property and eating his food. And even through all of this, they were a family. It's not about blood, it's not about adoption and some papers, it's not about Bruce being your father, it's about trust.

The Wayne family and the Batfam are two different things. Huntress, Helena Bertinelli, is in the batfam. Azrael, Jean-Paul Valley, is in the batfam sometimes (in Batman: Detective Comics 2016, he is). Harley Quinn is also in the batfam sometimes (in Injustice). Lucius Fox and Luke are in the batfam. Harper and Collen Row are in the batfam, but Bruce kind of sees them as his children (in Batman and Robin Eternal at least).

People aren't a part of the batfam because they are Bruce's children, but because they choose each others, again and again, through the highs and the lows. It's about fighting Bruce, taking his shit, and still helping his ass.

And while we are it, batkids doesn’t mean "Bruce's children", it means "the kids around the big Bat, helping in the Bat's mission, that are the Bat's responsibility". YES, Barbara is a batkid, and it doesn't make Bruce her father or a father-figure. She was a kid and batgirl, so she is a batkid.

[ao3feed-brucewayne]

The Batkids' incredible ability to make JL believe whatever they want them to believe

by ValletyDarwin The Justice League decides to add a new member to the team, choosing Nightwing, despite Batman's obvious reluctance. And soon, a bunch of idiots, aka Barry, Oliver, Hal and Arthur, spread gossip throughout the Watchtowers that Nightwing and Batman are lovers. And when the BatKids find out about this, they decide to play a prank on the League. And suddenly the 'supposed children' of Nightwing and Batman appear out of nowhere in the Tower. Meanwhile, Bruce just gave up the second he witnessed his kids sitting in a circle like a fucking demonic cult in a very dark part of the Batcave with candles in their midst being their only illumination as they discuss plans to mess with and traumatize the League. Unfortunately he was noticed, and after his kids exchanged silent glances, Cass, Duke and Damian gave Bruce puppy dog eyes, and he was in on the plan. And Alfie will surely make extra cookies for everyone since they're getting along so well, because who cares if the Justice League gets traumatized? Not Alfred, and neither does any of the Batfamily. Words: 1601, Chapters: 1/1, Language: English Fandoms: Batman - All Media Types, Justice League - All Media Types Rating: General Audiences Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings Characters: Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson, Clark Kent, Barry Allen, Hal Jordan (Green Lantern), Oliver Queen, Arthur Curry (DCU), Diana (Wonder Woman), Victor Stone, Jason Todd, Damian Wayne, Tim Drake (DCU), Stephanie Brown, Cassandra Cain, Duke Thomas, Jarro (DCU), Billy Batson, Queenie (Harley Quinn Comics), Pamela Isley, Kate Kane (DCU), Selina Kyle Relationships: Dick Grayson/Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson & Justice League, Barry Allen & Hal Jordan (Green Lantern) & Oliver Queen, Pamela Isley/Harleen Quinzel, Kate Kane/Selina Kyle Additional Tags: Batfamily Shenanigans (DCU), Dick Grayson Meets the Justice League, Batfamily Meets the Justice League (DCU), Cryptid Batfamily (DCU), Billy Batson is a Batfamily Member, Romani Dick Grayson, Barry Allen Needs a Hug, Oliver Queen Needs a Hug, Confused Hal Jordan (Green Lantern), Barry Allen has ADHD, Dick Grayson is a Ray of Sunshine, Dick Grayson is a Menace, Jason Todd is a Menace, Jason Todd is Built Like A Tank, No Angst, Justice League Doesn't Know Bruce Wayne is Batman, Billy Batson is Captain Marvel | Shazam, Damian Wayne is a Menace, Damian Wayne is a Little Shit, Tim Drake is Flamebird, Bruce Wayne is a Little Shit, Bruce Wayne is So Done, Bruce Wayne Tries to Be a Good Parent, Bruce Wayne is Good With Kids, Tim Drake is a Menace (DCU), Duke Thomas is a Ray of Sunshine, Duke Thomas Being a Little Shit, Good Older Sibling Barbara Gordon, Not Beta Read, Jewish Bruce Wayne, Jewish Batfamily (DCU), Not Canon Compliant via https://ift.tt/OqvJYXK

[zahri-melitor]

dick just tells all his siblings he'd have tried adopting them

The thing is, I’m certain this is not the case. The two 'offers' of adoption Dick has made (to Jason and to Damian) are based in Dick attempting to create or reinforce a bond and support system for the other outside of the one via Bruce, because Damian in particular needs to hear that someone would choose him, rather than that he's an unlooked-for obligation.

This dynamic is not there for Dick with either Tim or Cass, and he probably never would even consider telling them that he would adopt either. I think it's interesting to look at why.

For Tim, I can’t think of a moment where this would come up between Dick and Tim, and much of that revolves around the fact that the topic of adoption was incredibly fraught for both Dick and Tim right up until post-Infinite Crisis, at which point Tim's own adoption story occurs in Face the Face.

Part of Dick and Tim’s initial bond is over their equal footing on this; Dick can call Bruce ‘our Dad’ to Tim because he’s both of their former foster father, as well as their mentor. Neither of them are adopted; Jason was the adopted child, and they're working around Bruce's grief over this.

And not to take Nightwing #110 1996 out of context, but it’s incredibly telling to me that this is the only major conversation Dick and Tim EVER have about adoption together; the one in which Dick reacts badly to the idea of Bruce adopting Tim and Tim scrambles to explain he didn't accept it.

Their relationship and brotherhood isn’t based in their mutual relationships with Bruce: it’s based in their shared past and views of each other, entirely separate to Bruce. They don't need that legal support structure for their view of each other, because their brotherhood existed for an entire real world decade before Dick was adopted himself.

In the case of Cass, it's even more unlikely on two angles: Barbara and Batgirl 2008.

Firstly, Dick would never need to make an offer to give Cass the security of a legal family, because if it ever ended up necessary, Barbara is obviously the person other than Bruce who would do so. There's simply no reason that Dick would need to do this for Cass' security.

But also: Dick ended up getting stuck being the naysaying voice in Batgirl 2008, and as part of that, his major comments directed towards Cass on the topic of adoption include the fact that he doesn't think Bruce should be adopting her, let alone stepping in himself. Of course, both before and after this storyline in other titles Dick's a lot more accepting and slots her straight into the 'little sister' spot, but it's also the only real occasion we hear Dick having views on Cass and adoption.

But beyond Batgirl 2008 creating friction in the Dick and Cass relationship, their broader relationship, like both of theirs with Tim, is based in mutual assistance and a period of storytelling where they didn't need formalised relationships via Bruce to define their bonds with each other. Dick's close relationship with Cass was as vigilantes working together and his more distant one was "Cass is my girlfriend's mentee".

So like...I do see the joke but it drops a lot of complexity out of Dick's relationships with different characters, to flatten it all down to the same beat.

[ao3-top-batfam-ships-bracket]

My problem with Bat/ Bat ships isn't that they exist, it's how many people like them.

Wait! Hear me out. I swear I have a reason.

I'm good at ignoring ships that squick me, so I do. I also want to make it very clear I am not I am not hating on individuums who ship Bat/ Bat.

But to me, how much people ship them is kind of indicative of how little we value adopted children in our society. People say they aren't "really related" so it's fine.

Because you just don't see that level of engagement with ships involving biologically related family.

And it's that attitude shining through more than the shipping itself I dislike.

"Fiction isn't reality" no, it isn't, write the darkest thing you want. Explore fucked up concepts. That doesn't make you a bad person. It's completely normal.

However oftentimes Fiction is often still a reflection of reality. From reading, we can learn about our society (or other societies, if we venture beyond our own culture.) It says something, whether the author meant for it to mean something or not.

We understand where you're coming from and agree that adopted children/siblings are real family and shouldn't be valued less. We also agree that fiction mirrors reality which mirrors fiction, although that process is much more complex than many people claim.

However, 1) not every family is your typical nuclear family. Everybody defines their family and their relationships with its members in their own way. Some people call all adults that are close to them uncles and aunts, regardless of any actual biological connection. Someone could have been raised by their biological parents, but don't claim them as parents because of personal reasons and even view other adults who filled the parental roles better as their actual parents. Someone could have a biological sibling that is much older than them, grow up without them in their life and due to that think of them as more of a cool friend than a sibling. (All examples are taken from our own personal experiences.)

It's especially apparent in cases of found family, which batfamily certainly is. Tim and Jason haven't met until Jason was 18 and Tim was 16. Both were adopted by the same man, but they didn't know each other. Does that automatically makes them brothers? Even though without the adoption papers they would be total strangers? If Jason's death invalidated the adoption papers does it mean he and Bruce stopped thinking of each other as parent and child? Bruce and Dick have an age difference between 10 to 20 years and viewed each other more as brothers, partners and mentor/mentee at first. Bruce and Tim for a long time also thought of each other as mentor/mentee, especially since Tim still had a living father. That was also the case of Dick and Damian. Tim had a crush on Cass in the comics at the beginning of their friendship. Jason and Dick were technically brothers before Jason's death, but they weren't close at all and only met a few times. Barbara is a mother/sister figure to Cass even when she was dating Cass' adopted brother Dick. We don't think Jason and Cass even met once in post-crisis comics, despite technically being siblings. (Sorry we're only mentioning that one era, we aren't as knowledgeable about new52 and rebirth.)

The recent push to make the batfamily a nuclear family in our opinion does a huge disservice to the characters and their interesting and complicated relationships that can't fit neatly into boxes labeled "sibling" or "parent".

2) some people think of batfamily as a family AND still ship them at the same time. Yes, some claim they aren't "really related", but there's another side that absolutely views them as related and wants to explore what happens when two brothers or a father and son fall in love.

3) there's actually a pretty big engagement with ships involving biologically related family. Wincest (ship between biological brothers Sam and Dean from Supernatural) is the 15th most popular ship on AO3 of all time. We still remember how prominent the fandom discourse about shipping the Weasley twins from Harry Potter was. In almost every fandom, there're at least a few incest ships. Are they more popular than adopted sibling incest ships? We don't know, but if anyone wants to measure it in some way, we'd love to find out.

Edit: 4) as people have rightfully pointed out in the comments and reblogs, a lot of fics are AUs where one or both characters weren't even adopted and met in different circumstances. You can see that in a lot of fandoms, people will imagine close friends or even strangers as biological family and vice versa: write biological or adopted family as just friends or even strangers.

We're looking forward to hearing what other people think about this topic!