#The whole point of the pjo series is that Luke WAS right and that he just went about it in the wrong and extremest way while actively

[trinrose3]

Tell me why I just saw someone say Luke from PJO isn’t allowed to be a victim of child abuse because he’s white….

[11queensupreme11]

Yes, I am making a reaction fic....... eventually lol

i know it says i started this back in 2023, but all i really did was make a cover. i didn't start making any chapters until a few months ago hehe

BUT ANYWAYS YES YOU READ THAT RIGHT! i am making a reaction/reading the books/watching the movies fic for arsenic blues!!!! in this case, it will be ror reacting to pjo

for anyone interested to learn more, go under the cut!

(this started off as me just giving you some info about cerulean cyanide, but then i ended up ranting about how much i loved the pjo tv show lol, soooo if you haven't watched it, don't go down)

first off, THIS IS MY FIRST TIME MAKING A REACTION FIC! i've read a lot of them, but i have no experience in actually making one. i'm kinda nervous ngl 😅

secondly, i've already started... somewhat. i've copied all chapters of the lightning thief into a google doc and made necessary edits, but i haven't written any reactions... YET. i want to include the ror gods AND humans as members of the audience, and since i haven't written about the ror humans as thoroughly yet, i won't be writing the reactions until i get to act 2 of arsenic blues, since that's when the ror humans are introduced. this is important for me because i don't have their characterizations down yet, and won't until i actually start writing about them and their dynamics with percy. same goes with cú chulainn, he's a literal love interest, but won't get introduced until act 2!

thirdly, because of what i said up there ^ cerulean cyanide won't be published until act 2 is finished to avoid spoiling what happens during ragnarok and the god's apocalypse.

fourthly, IT WILL BE INTERMIXED WITH THE TV SHOW!!! i fucking LOVED the show and (most of) the changes that were made, so i'm totally going to add them into percy's past that the ror characters will be reacting to.

so what elements of the show should you expect to see? glad you asked!

POSEIDON 💙

poseidon in the books is great, but i loooooove the new stuff they put in the tv show. in the books, we're mostly told that poseidon loves percy and there are times where it's shown, but it's kinda hard to pick up since the books are written in PERCY'S POV, and since poseidon is literally restricted from interacting with him, it's hard to notice how much he actually loves his son when he's not even allowed to be AROUND the dude who's perspective takes up the whole series.

but in the tv show, it's not just percy's perspective that's explored! that little moment poseidon had with sally told us SOOOO MUCH about how he actually felt for the both of them. and when he and percy finally met??? THE ANGST AND LONGING THEY BOTH SHOWED UHDFSIGVSVGD I LOVED IT SO MUCH

AND THE FACT THAT HE NOT ONLY SAVED PERCY FROM ZEUS BUT ALSO SURRENDERED??? HE GAVE UP HIS PRIDE AND PRIDE IS SUCH A HUGE AND IMPORTANT THING FOR GODS BUT HE GAVE IT UP WITH NO HESITATION AHHHHHHH 😭

so yes, expect to see a lot of the poseidon scenes from the tv show

HERMES BEING AT THE LOTUS CASINO

i actually really like the fact that hermes was shown in here instead of the next season. some people were confused as to what the point was for having him in the casino and why he tricked the kids into staying at the casino longer, but i found this post on tumblr that explains why he could've been there:

in the last olympian, we (and percy) find out that hermes knew all along what luke's fate would be; that he would rebel against the olympians, bring forth kronos, become his host, etc. he knew ALL OF THAT. but he was never allowed to tell him (ancient laws), so he tried to CHANGE luke's fate in order to save him even though he knew it was pointless.

we get a bit of that in the tv show. hermes was there because he wanted to change luke's fate. he tricked the kids into staying at the casino longer so they would pass the deadline. war would come, and luke would get away with his thievery and nobody would know it was him because they're all too busy trying to kill each other. but ofc, like always, it didn't work because you can never change fate.

i love how the show showed us that hermes was trying to change his fate in the first season whereas in the books, it only started in the second book where he was introduced for the first time.

THE GODS' CRUELTY AND THEIR LOVE

the gods' cruelty and apathy was much more obvious in the show's first season compared to the first book. in the first book, most of the gods shown were jerks at best but the tv show really showed us how horrible of a family they are (most of them at least) to each other and their kids

like what show!ares said, his family loves to stab each other in the back, they love to hurt each other to get a higher leg up; they're not really a family. the audience and percy becomes VERY aware of that unlike in the books where it's more sugar-coated at the start.

we're shown very early on that they're not good people, but at the same time, we're shown that some of them DO care.

hephaestus was abused and mistreated by his family, but he refuses to be like them which is why he released percy from his trap; because he realizes that he and annabeth are good kids (ending the cycle). hermes loves his son and desperately wants to change his fate despite being told over and over again that its pointless. poseidon loves percy and wishes to be a proper family with him and sally, but isn't allowed to.

there are some good gods out there, which is why percy decided to stand by them instead of taking luke's offer to bring it all down. he's been shown that some gods ARE good. unlike in the first book where you don't really meet any decent gods, so book!percy honestly didn't have much of a reason to defend them, yet he did anyway when luke left camp. the show gave him (and us) a better reason to actually defend them

in the show, he's exposed to the god's cruelty, but he sees that it's not as black and white as he once thought "oh all the gods are bad and none of them care for their kids >:(", he sees the good in some of them and it's enough to make him want to save them instead of letting them crash and burn (like luke, who's blinded by his anger and hatred *cough cough* fatal flaw!!!! *cough cough*).

LUKE AND PERCY'S RELATIONSHIP

SHOW!LUKE WAS SO MUCH BETTER THAN BOOK!LUKE IMO.

book!luke was trying to kill percy very early on and was pretty much pretending to be his friend the whole time. yes his intentions and character get fleshed out as the books go on, but his relationship with percy... didn't offer much.

then there's show!luke who genuinely liked him and wanted to recruit him rather than kill him (that's why there's no scorpion scene). his betrayal was more personal and painful for percy. the fact that annabeth was there to watch it all happen was even better (not for her though LOL).

(and dont even get me started on how show!luke didn't hate grover like in the books. the genuine fear in his eyes when he found out that percy gave the shoes to him and the way his eyes got all misty??? he fully blames thalia's "death" on him and him only THE ANGUISH WAS SO 😭😭😭)

AND I THINK THAT MIGHT BE ALL?

so yes, these are some of the changes you should expect to see!

i wanna really contrast how different things are between the ror and pjo verse. ror gods are very close and tight-knit whereas the pjo gods are... well, "a mess" as percy so eloquently put it.

ror gods aren't forced under the tyrannical rule of zeus, their zeus is chill and just wants to have fun. they have no restrictions to follow and their divine laws aren't as oppressive

whereas pjo gods are under the tyrant rule of zeus and can't even interact with their kids.

ror gods are independent while pjo gods have to rely on the preservation of western civilization to stay alive and use demigods to break rules, etc etc.

pjo gods (some, at least) are kinder and have no issues falling in love with humans and loving their demigod children while ror gods are cruel assholes who commit genocide against humanity despite being the ones to create them

and etc etc.

ANYWAY, I HOPE YOU GUYS ARE AS HYPED UP AS I AM!!!! 🥳🥳🥳 can't wait to start writing reactions for the first time ever 🫨

[fantastic-nonsense]

I think people who genuinely wanted Percy to rebel against the gods and overthrow the system kind of...miss the whole point of the series

The question is not whether or not the gods deserve to rule; the books are kind of unambiguous that they don't! That the gods are generally undeserving of their children's loyalty is the one thing that Percy and Luke both agree on! But PJO is less about divine right to rule vs. ruling via consent of the governed and more about improving dysfunctional family systems. It's not about whether unfair rulers deserve to continue ruling; it's about forcing the gods to be better, fairer rulers and a better, fairer family given limited alternatives.

Because what are the alternatives, as presented to us within the scope of the original PJO series?

Option 1: allow Kronos to topple Olympus and take over. Clearly not a viable alternative for all of the reasons the books show us.

Option 2: the demigods overthrow the Olympians and rule the world themselves. Okay. How's that going to work out long-term, given demigods are mortal and cannot control or protect their parents' domains? Demigods will die out within a generation or two, so that's potentially a one-generation short-term solution, and then everyone's right back where they started. Except worse, because now the world has been out of divine balance for a century and the gods have a completely legitimate bone to pick with all demigods. Materially worse outcome.

Option 3: demigods ignore the gods and their will entirely. They integrate into the mortal world, refuse to participate in quests or talk to their parents, and pretend prophecies don't exist. Except that's clearly not a viable option, since we see that demigods usually can't safely exist in the mortal world without monsters coming after them, the gods are cruel enough to use blackmail and engage in hostage situations to get demigods to act as heroes, and prophecies have a way of coming true regardless of everyone's best attempts to circumvent them. Again: materially worse outcome.

And for Percy, for the demigods at Camp Half-Blood, for Luke and for everyone else who defected....for the most part, they don't actually have an inherent problem with the gods ruling them. They just want to be acknowledged, valued, and loved by their families, to be treated as more than a tool for their parents to wield whenever their services are needed. That was the core thesis of the demigod rebellion, which was wholly separate from Kronos' specific motivations for overthrowing the Olympians, and it's why Percy's asks at the end of TLO were what they were.

The point was always that had Percy grown up in a slightly more dysfunctional family environment...had he grown up with Frederick Chase's seemingly conditional love or May Castellan's madness instead of Sally Jackson's steady, quiet, unconditional love...he could have turned out like Luke. Like Ethan. Like the dozens of demigods who defected from camp to join Luke's cause. Percy could have turned out just as a bitter and angry and vengeful. Just as ready to tear down the system. Just as willing to betray and kill his own family for the sake of making a point.

But instead, Percy openly reprimands the gods for abandoning their families and using them as cannon fodder in their own petty disagreements. He forces them to acknowledge and claim their children. He demands that everyone who is part of the godly family be recognized and accepted, not just those related to the Twelve Olympians. He asks for those unjustly punished (like Calypso) to be set free and accepted back into the family. Because that's the point at the end of the day: not forcing bad rulers to step down, but changing an insanely dysfunctional family system that the gods and demigods are all members of into a better, safer, and more accepting environment for demigods to grow up and live in.

Overthrowing the gods wouldn't solve the problem at the heart of the series, which is the gods' shitty parenting and family management skills. It would only exacerbate the massive familial fault-lines that Kronos exploited and leave the demigods open to more godly manipulation. Which is why the series ends as it does, with Percy using his wish to tangibly improve the lives of his family instead of selfishly improving his own life (via accepting immortality/godhood) or overthrowing the gods. Because the conflict isn't about the gods as rulers. It's about the gods as parents.

PJO's core thesis is Percy, who grew up knowing unconditional familial love, looking at this whole world of children who didn't and saying "that's not fair. Gods should be better than this!" But instead of destroying them the way Luke wants to, instead of overthrowing them and putting himself on the throne, he instead challenges them to be better parents and family members. To be part of the solution instead of the problem. And Percy's demands don't solve everything, but they were necessary first steps! Without forcing the gods to acknowledge a bare minimum floor of inclusion, the cycle would simply begin all over again the next time a major conflict popped up.

So that's the problem Percy solves and how he successfully fulfills the prophecy: by believing that the gods had the capacity to change and forcing them to break the cycle of familial abandonment, he preserves Olympus and takes the first steps towards a new status quo, one that is objectively better for demigods than the one he grew up in. That's why he succeeds, and it's why Percy overthrowing the gods would have made for a much less satisfying ending than what actually happened.

[amoreva]

FEIGNING FOR YA

—– ٠ ✤ ٠ —–· • —– ٠ ✤ ٠ —– • · —– ٠ ✤ ٠ —–

CHAPTER 5

pairing: luke castellan x fem!reader

summary: exam season is over and an overwhelming amount of emotions come out

warnings: luke’s pov! not proofread! slow burn, college au, smau, fake dating to dating, cursing, aged up! pjo charcters, parental expectations

a/n: no smau this chapter! kind of decided it wasn’t appropriate with the events going on

series list | next

—– ٠ ✤ ٠ —–· • —– ٠ ✤ ٠ —– • · —– ٠ ✤ ٠ —–

What is it that people say?

Love is a fickle thing?

Love was not fickle. It was torturous in all the right ways and the wrong ways. Luke has fallen victim to love, under its binding curse for so long now. He doesn’t know if he can keep up the act of being your fake boyfriend. It’s worse than just being your friend, because now he can hold your hand, but he knows, he knows deep in his heart—you won’t be his.

You’re best friends. Nothing more, nothing less

Even if his heart ached for more.

At first thought, he believed he was in love with Nancy Thompson. A sophomore in his freshman English class. Nancy sat on the opposite side of the room: the corner desk. She was just…so cool and collected.

He’d rave about how Nancy was the love of his life to you and how the light hit her just right or when she have this little quirk while thinking like the stupid teenage boy he was.

Luke asked Nancy to homecoming and was rejected. He wasn’t as butt hurt as he thought he’d be—especially not with you around to cheer him up.

He hadn’t noticed until the night of homecoming how pretty you looked. Your dress was nothing short of perfect for you and the way your eyes shined in the cheap school lighting. He was lucky to have a best friend like you.

It was sophomore year when Luke realized, he was staring at you his whole freshman year. You were right in his line of vision: just before that corner desk. Why he thought he liked Nancy? He had no idea.

But, you were his bestfriend since…forever.

And just like ever cheesy Hallmark movie and horrible limited TV series, he kept quiet. Content with being your buddy old pal and admiring the little things you do and aiding in your troubles. As. A. Friend.

Luke thought it would go away when he first realized his feelings. He thought it would go away a few months later. He thought it would go away when he had his first kiss with someone else. He even (foolishly) thought it would go away when you and him started college.

It didn’t.

This warm feeling in his chest never went away. It tortured him like the electric chair would shock him everytime you were near: reminding him what he couldn’t have, what he could ruin if he confessed.

The gods must’ve hated his guts, or found his suffering amusing. What was he thinking? Suggesting he be your fake boyfriend?

He was a fool.

He had accepted that long ago.

But, he made a bigger fool of himself tonight than he ever did before.

“Exams are over!” Clarisse whooped as she got in the backseat of Luke’s car.

“Time to drink the night away!” You grinned, slipping into the passenger seat.

Luke gave you a pointed look when he saw the stolen shot bottles, courtesy of Chris’ sticky hands.“C’mon Lukey-poo! A little pre-game didn’t kill anyone.”

“You are so wrong about that.”

“You are not drinking those right now.” Luke spoke sternly. He was stuck with being DD tonight—though he could hold his alcohol better than his friends. “I’m not dealing with your drunk asses before we get to the club.”

“You’re no fun!”

“Someone’s being responsible.”

“Leave him be.” You gave him an apologetic smile and cranked up the radio. Luke mustered up the courage to place his hands over yours—

—to keep up the fake relationship narrative. Yup. Mhm.

Besides you didn’t push him away.

The club was more crowded than usual, but that was expected. Every college student and their mother was there tonight. The floors were sticky. It smelt of BO and musk. The perfect night to wash away stress and worries. And there was no way of telling what time it was without your phone.

Luke left you for a moment to get another drink for himself and for you? Water. You were a lightweight, there was no denying it. He came back to find you with your arms wrapped around some dude.

He wasn’t jealous. He wasn’t. He swears.

He was more concerned with you being drunk and taken advantage of. Which is why he handled it so cool-headed and nonchalant of him.

“Back off.” Luke wrapped an arm around your waist. His temper boiling beneath the seams.

“Woah, man!” The guy held his hands up in mock surrender. “Didn’t know she was your girl—”

He missed the last part guiding you away. “Lukey!” You exclaimed in a pout, poking at his cheek. Your cheeks pink from the alcohol. “Are you mad? I can see you’re mad. You are mad!”

“I’m not.”

“You are! We’re just friends in my Calc class!”

“I’m not mad—I just…” Luke looked for an excuse. “Let’s dance.” He nodded and grabbed your hands, pulling you to the dance floor.

“Okay!” You happily obliged, forgetting about the incident.

Maybe it was the alcohol stirring something in Luke’s veins. He had been dancing on the sticky club floor for more than an hour, but he couldn’t bring himself to stop: even when his feet ached, even when the smell of sweat got to much—your smile was worth it.

You’d make him twirl, dip and hold you as the music changed. Gods, did it feel nice to have you in his arms for this long—his heart ached more and more as the night went on.

Soon enough, you trudged your tired body and aching legs to a cushioned arm chair in the corner of the club. “You okay?” Luke asked, sitting on the coffee table in front of you. He flagged down a waiter for two glasses of water

“Yeah, my feet are killing me.” Your eyes wandered over him, his outfit for tonight. A short sleeved black button up and khaki wrangler pants. It was a good look on him. He looked…good.

Luke wrote that off as a drunken thought when he heard you mutter about how “good” he looked: ignoring the burning in his cheeks and ears.

“Y’know…” Your voice slurred.

Luke shut off his phone after quickly checking where Clarisse and Chris were. “We could break up now…”

His heart dropped.

“What?” He croaked.

Had he been to enveloped in playing pretend for you? He knew this day would come, but why now? Why after he introduced you to his mother again? Why after he saw you experience life with your own feelings forward instead of your parents? Why now?

“We should break up now.” You reaffirmed and looked at him. Maybe it’s the alcohol talking. “The guy from my Calc class is kinda cute—and your chick magnet will restore to its glory.”

It’s stupid he’s upset at this arrangement ending.

It’s stupid that he wants to cry.

You raise your eyebrows in surprise seeing your best friend so quiet and the upset furrow in his eyebrow. Isn’t he happy?

Luke stormed out of the club before he can do anything brash or cry.

You sober up quickly and chase him outside. Luke is walking to his car. “Hey! What the hell is this about?” You asked confused.

“Nothing—I’m going home. Tired.” He doesn’t even look at you.

“Are you mad? Over me ending this? You said it yourself I was dampening your chick magnet.” Anger bubbled up in your chest. You don’t know why. Maybe the alcohol is still talking.

Luke doesn’t answer.

“Seriously…this fake relationship didn’t really matter much to you.—” Gods, you were being such an asshole.

“It mattered to me!” Luke shouted. Years of holding back his feelings finally came spilling out as if a volcano erupted. “It mattered to me.”

He turned to you. Your heart broke seeing the emotions on his face: heartbreak, agony, shame. “You’re so—gods…I have known you for so long and I never knew you could be this dense until now.” He dryly laughed.

“Wha…”

“It mattered to me because I love you. I’ve been in love with you since highschool—and I’m such a goddamn lovesick idiot that I couldn’t get over you.” He explained, avoiding your eyes.

You’re silent, shocked at the confession. You sober up completely.

“This fake relationship—I accepted because…yes, I did want to fuck with your parents and help you live your life without them looking over your head, but I knew it was the closest thing I can get to being yours.”

Luke feels like a fool.

Shouting his pent up confession for all of Rowan Ave. to hear.

Way to go on not ruining your and his friendship. Luke did great at maintaining that.

“Luke…” You reached out to comfort him when Chris and Clarisse stumble out of the club, drunk.

“Holy shit—that last shot got me going.” Chris laughed as he leaned on Clarisse. You hesitate to help them, still stuck on Luke’s confession. You couldn’t process it when you still sobering.

Ultimately, you help them back into Luke’s car.

No words are shared between you two. The car is almost silent, save for the giggles and drunken words of Chris and Clarisse.

“It mattered to me.” Echoed over and over in your head. Your heartbeat quickened. Gods…you were the fool.

—– ٠ ✤ ٠ —–· • —– ٠ ✤ ٠ —– • · —– ٠ ✤ ٠ —–

taglist:

@happy-mushrooms @m00ng4z3r @justanotherkpopstanlol @2hiigh2cry @celluifleur @yuminako @pookiebear16 @mxtokko @cxcillia @kai-islost @kidkrowk @iluvpjo @sofiacblair @cherryynovaa @dracoslovergirl @lalloronaisreal @jennapancake @urbanflorals @sweetstime @cherr-y-eji @thatbird-fromrio @itzlilywelch @annispamz @unseriousgirl @hanankhan8 @rinisfruity14

[jellybellyblimp]

I was 100% a Percy Jackson kid, but I refuse to read the new PJO books on principle because at some point in my teenage years over the course of reading Heroes of Olympus I came to the startling conclusion that the only story I wanted from Rick anymore was Percy defeating the gods.

People compare the Harry Potter and Percy Jackson series in order to criticize JKR for offering no systemic changes to the problems in wizarding society that her series emphasized. Whereas Percy forces the gods to acknowledge some of Luke’s very real grievances and do better. And this is an excellent comparison if the books had ended there. But they didn’t. Rick wrote HoO and gave us a whole new list of even more awful reasons the Gods suck. And then he resolved none of them.

Which to be clear this isn’t really a critique of Rick. I don’t think this makes him a bad writer, but it did slowly radicalize me to the belief that Luke had been right. Maybe not in his methods, but certainly in his cause.

And now every Percy story rings hollow because the only story I feel is worth telling is them overcoming their parents (just as Kronos did Uranus and Zeus did Kronos). The new generation is here and the gods have made it clear that they have no interest in changing for the better. Worse we have to keep watching them foist their bullshit onto Percy over and over again. Which I appreciate is true to Greek Mythology, but this is not Greek Mythology. This is a middle grade book series written in the 21st century and Percy deserves to kill the Gods.

(Also I’m not twelve anymore so maybe the series just isn’t for me anymore lmao)

[somewhereincairparavel]

Hey, thanks for replying to my previous ask! and don't worry about the time it took to reply, I understand needing to recharge in order to give your 100% on a reply.

Now about that villain Jason you were speaking of... do share your thoughts if you don't mind :)

i responded like. 10 days late I'm sorry I had so much to do and i didn't get the time to write such a long post- I'm scared if I lost my momentum on my essay writing skills but let's see if I did good on this one.

I have thoughts about this man especially villian jason, so let me begin. i know luke was considered as “what percy would've become if he did the wrong thing” but hear me out. jason being the one ‘hero’ demigod to succumb to his bitterness and didn't just solely exist in the series to be a villian, but a hero changed villian.

luke kinda existed in pjo to be an antagonist, but it would be great if a main hero character slowly descended to madness and I don't just mean going around killing people. no. not that kind of villian. because that defeats the purpose of jason's character.

I mean villian in the sense of a drastic change in his personality where he brings obstacles to the seven's missions emotionally or physically because of his trauma, and that's where dark! jason comes in.

after he regains his memories after he experienced the warmth of chb, he's pissed at how badly he was treated all these years in camp jupiter. he comes to a REALISATION that he was used.

people don't take jason seriously and say that he suffered the ‘least’ because he doesn't ever acknowledge his trauma. Not even to himself. of course the argument ‘he was raised this way, to supress himself!’ would be the explanation, but that doesn't even make sense, considering how much it's emphasized that jason ‘changed’ after his experience in camp half blood.

give me a jason who maintains his roman ethic but simultaneously inherits the greek demigod qualities, like self realisation, calling people out for the bad treatment, anger towards the gods, or just expressing himself in general. the argument of ‘he was raised this way, to supress himself! that's why he's so submissive’ makes me angry

give me a jason who's jealous of how quickly percy was accepted into camp jupiter, in contrast to how everyone in camp half blood couldn't stop talking about percy and never gave up on him. camp half blood was friendly to jason, but in a ‘yeah he's cool ig’ kinda way in comparison to camp jupiter's ‘HES OUR HERO, BOW DOWN TO HIM’ kinda dramatics for percy.

give me a jason who is disappointed at the lack of warm welcome he got when he returned, when he was clearly expecting more from them (does that make him look entitled? for wanting repayment for his service and kindness all these years? maybe. but that's the point he really needed to be an asshole sometimes and he's fucking right.)

give me a jason who takes some of the bitterness he has against his mom out on thalia, for not looking for him (yes it's not even remotely her fault for getting manipulated by her mom by thinking jason is dead, but see the parallels here? camp jupiter and thalia both got gaslit into thinking that jason is dead, that jason sees the correlation and it gives him ptsd) jason is jealous and bitter that luke and annabeth ‘replaced’ him as thalia's family. jason is jealous that thalia said ‘i have to look for percy’

give me a jason who's jealous of percy having such a huge support system like basically the whole of camp half blood, annabeth, grover sally and paul. and is salty that he had an alcoholic mother who wanted him dead.

give me a jason who feels distant from everyone, because in a way, he always was. he just didn't show it. his friendship with reyna failed, he was ‘rivals’ with percy, they became friends bit not best friends, annabeth was wary of him, piper dumped him, frank saw him as a historical leader, and hazel who once admired him, didn't really like him till the very end bc of the nico thing.

give me a jason who's cold to reyna after they reunite because he was angry that he was so quickly replaced, upset that reyna avoided him ever since the venus incident because he didn't understand why.

give me a jason who inherits his mother's worst traits despite that being his biggest fear. it would parallel very well, his mom descended to insanity because zeus abandoned her, give me jason who also descends similarly because he was abandoned by her. full circle.

jason's interaction with beryl should've been way more emotional and compelling rather than the 2 second bit we got tbh, most people don't even remember that scene, that tells you how short it was.

give me a jason who momentarily makes the room full of giants and monsters suffocate by harshly sucking the air without even realising it, because the sight of his mother made him so fucking angry and agressive, it triggers his PTSD and makes his mind THROB (but piper and annabeth are safe from that because they were the ones who anchored him to reality, regardless, they get terrified of how mad he got)

jason who actually remembers his childhood trauma VIVIDLY and reflects on it instead of brushing it off, please. people also, for some reason are more sympathetic to antagonists with tragic backstories? like luke? like they pity them over the morally good characters? idk but it tends be a tendency in most fandoms. I saw so many pinterest posts comparing luke's actions to jason's? like I'm sorry luke is a good character but NOT comparable to jason (who's a morally good ‘hero’ character) they're not even on the same level of moral goodness. but yeah, maybe jason would've gained more empathy from the fans if he were an antagonist, like luke is receiving.

[my-pjo-stuff]

Given the opportunity to write Luke's redemption arc, how would you do it?

Frankly said, I wouldn't.

I, in my honest opinion, think that Luke's type of character in a story is someone that should not get a "redemption" arc in the classical sense. And that getting one actually hurts them in their narrative.

Now, hear me out. At this point, I think we all know for a fact how horrid the gods and CHB are. Genuienly that's an unsalvagable system in its current form. Luke as a character directly goes against it, his whole personality and identity within the PJO story is quite literally built upon these two simple facts.

My issue with him getting a redemption arc in the classical sense (and also how it happened in the books) is the fact that it fundamentally damages these core parts of his characters. Due to the fact that our heroes- and this the good side- are on the side that fights FOR this inherently harmful system means that Luke would have to switch to them (aka, The Good Side") for his redemption arc. And even if you do what the books did- aka, "This side may suck but the other is worse" it would still mean that Luke somewhat embraces the Gods' as the lesser evil. Which frankly said, just isn't in-character for him if you ask me.

The reason why I personally enjoy Luke and the TA so much is because at the core, they are surprisingly realistic. This may sound hard- but revolutions and overthrows of unjust and evil systems are always incredibly bloody. And you will always see some degree of atrocity from both sides. I mean...we have accounts of lynch mobs of innocent women and children in the French Revolution which is the most famous revolution in the Western world and generally seen as good and justified. The American War of Independence was equally as justified and also saw a lot of dead English ppl. WW2 in my opinion is one of the few wars where there was a clear good guy side, and yk what the Allies did? Killed a few millions of innocent German women, children and old people in their mass bombings. And I am not even getting into the atom bombs debacle.

Now, am I saying those things are somehow justified because they were done by the good guys? No. Hell no. Those are crimes and should be treated and recognized as such. But that doesn't mean that the Good Guys in that conflict suddenly aren't good anymore. The reason I brought this example up is because I want to explain that in these sorts of fights, fucked up shit is just bound to happen no matter what you do.

Luke definitely did bad stuff, and he no doubt is the antagonist of the books, but his ways were still ultimately understandable and also..well, realistic. He wasn't a villain who went around killing for fun, he was a military general in a war where he was on the backfoot for most the time. And as such he employed what he could and sacrificed if he had to.

That's why I think giving him a "redemption" arc like the books did was a bad idea, as it takes this inherent moral greyness and realism present in him and turns it into the classical villain that needs to be redeemed.

But to get back to your question- if I had to write Luke's arc for the books, instead of a redemption arc I would lean into this aspect. A lot of the OG PJO books are really just formulaic road trips while fighting monsters for the gang, so if I could I would cut some of the monster encounters Percy and co. have to instead give it to Luke and his side. To actually explore what it means to live under a harmful system, and the way it affects people.

That way we could teach kids that there isn't always a "right" or "wrong". We could even turn it into bit of a cautionary tale- that people can be brought to their extremes by these systems. And that's just another reason to avoid them. Yes, it's a middle school book series- but middle schoolers aren't dumb. And they deserve good books and arcs too.

Kronos, for all that's worth, could be shown to be the type of person who takes advantage of these kinds of revolutions for his own gains. Instead of Luke, I'd make Kronos the primary villain of PJO while he remains the primary antagonist. (Antagonist doesn't equal evil after all).

The end of TLO would remain the relative same, but Luke would come in to overcome Kronos. Not due to realizing he did smth wrong or due to main emotional appeal. But due to recognizing that Kronos himself has become a threat to the ideal Luke fights for and having decided to put an end to it. The fight would then be given over to Percy, who sets out for actual changes in negotiations with the gods he managed to enter due to the leverage Luke managed to get them. And with changes I don't mean the half-assed promise we got in canon instantly broken in TLH, I mean actual change.

Luke would not have a redemption arc due to constantly having been shown as someone who isn't evil, thus not needing any sort of "redemption". The TA and him still would have been the main antagonists, but the story would have shown them as morally grey and complex instead of just "villains with no or a cursory sad backstory." And Percy alongside the other MCs still would have had their victory by actually achieving good changes. While also getting more depth, as they would have come to the slow understanding over the course of the story instead of all that just stuffed into TLO.

[ittsybittsybunny]

PJO Episode 6: We Take a Zebra to Vegas 

I think it's important to say two things before I begin, first of all, I am a book reader, and second, I absolutely have loved this show so far! I thought the changes they have made have pretty consistently been improvements/adaptations to the screen that make sense and enhance the story.

Episode 6, and specifically the Lotus Casino is the first time I have been disappointed.

30-minute episodes are a detriment to the show. For me, it felt like they were speed-running for time instead of letting us get lost in the story. We moved from point to point, this then that, without feeling like those points really mattered. (Even Percy and Annabeth's relationship feels like a speedrun instead of a 5 book slow burn).

What makes the casino scary is the slow realization. For Medusa, practically a pop culture icon surrounded by stone statues on a Satyr path in the middle of the woods, it makes sense to know who she is. But why would you suspect a busy Las Vegas casino to be evil, and who remembers the Lotus Eaters from the Odyssey. If you know what the monster is from the beginning you take away its power.

The Solstice: Why have they passed this major plot point? In particular with the race against time, why take away the time limit and instead make it about a determination to finish what you've started? Is it to maximize Percy's loyalty?

The Pearls (Spoilers for TV-only watchers): If Percy has 4 instead of 3 pearls, what is going to happen to that 4th pearl. It's kind of incredibly important there are only 3 pearls, especially with the original time limit and the desperate need to get away as fast as possible. Long story short, how is he losing it - just like he must fail to save what matters most in the end.

What I did like:

I actually really enjoyed the Luke/Hermes dynamic they have set up since it really shows just how deep Luke's anger runs, especially regarding his mother. Also, I enjoyed Lin Manuel Miranda's portrayal of Hermes as saddened and trapped within a system himself. He isn't trying to cause harm, but he did anyway.

Grover and the animals. Just that whole section was great. Also, Percy's dreams I think are just the right amount of ominous each episode!

When the Nereid/Naiad shows up. The love and just care they have for Percy gets me every time.

I love the show, and I am sure once the entire series is out my overall opinion will change. But yes, this episode is the first one that left me feeling disappointed instead of practically jumping around the room.

TLDR: Pacing and tension are key elements of the show. If you let us know the monster at the beginning, we won't have the chance to become scared along with the characters. The slow realization is a key part of showing that these are children on a seemingly impossible quest!

[marshartblack]

Ok ok i am a pjo show supporter 100% BUT I’m not a fan of how they sort-of rushed through some pivotal scenes and left out some of the suspense and newness of these moments.

I know people have mentioned the trio figuring out they were dealing with Medusa in episode 3 and the whole deal with them figuring out the lotus hotel pumped lotus into the air (in addition to the crusty waterbed scene where they just immediately knew who crusty was for some reason), BUT the biggest thing that got to me was the betrayal scene with Luke. HOW DID HE KNOW RIGHT AWAY THAT LUKE WAS THE TRAITOR?!?! The whole point of it being a betrayal is that everyone thought Luke was on their side and would never do something like this. The betrayal scene is super important for setting up the whole rest of the series and I was just kind of let down with how rushed it seemed.

(Also where was the scorpion?!? )

[blue-banana-the-first]

this was one of my favourite scenes and one of the biggest reasons why the Titan's Curse is my favourite book in the PJO series so I'm gonna ramble a little

I think I'm seeing a trail of thought here, but like I remember thinking back then, about how it felt like Chiron was doing this as if Percy would be a bigger disaster but now that I'm looking back on it, i think the reaspn i felt like the scene resonated with me was that at this point Chiron doesn't actually know Thalia cause she never made it to camp, he probably didn't feel connected to her emotionally like he is with Percy having been his teacher in school. He used a more authoritive voice, like a teacher would in a rowdy classroom because he Thalia deliver an attack that would start something bigger, and escalate the situation further.

I feel like I'm onto something so gimme a sec.

The fight started with a crash between Percy and Thalia in a game, Thalia shocked him he doused her in water, and then Chiron orders them to stop, Thalia calls him Seaweed brain something he's only ok with when Annabeth does, and given what happened to her, it would explain how he would feel, and Percy's power outbursts are mostly fueled by emotions right? Thalia strikes him with a lightning bolt and Chiron is not happy because this might get out of hand and will be hard for him to damage control, but while Thalia's damage is localised to one point makimg it a little less dangerous to those around her at the moment (they don't have a lot of electronics at camp as well which makes her powers inside the camp a little less dangerous) , Percy's powers include the control of a material way denser and even less localised so he could already imagine the damage, the possible casualties too (considering they're also near a body of water) so he pleads with Percy because he knows Percy's retaliation would be justified but also because his retaliation would be fueled by emotions and using hostile or an authoritive voice on someone prone to rebelling and emotional outbursts might push him towards retaliation more.

Chiron probably has at least a semblance of an idea about how Percy feels about the whole prophecy situation and the special treatment Thalia was getting, he probably knows that the blame for what happened to Annabeth isn't only coming from Percy himself or Thalia.

So I think Chiron pleads with him because he doesn't want Percy to feel hurt and betrayed in the since he can see that Thalia has him cornered. while Chiron's priority is to contain the the damage, he also doesn't want Percy to feel like no one has his back or sees what's happening from his perspective.

It would make even more sense considering how demigods are joining Luke's side and if Percy felt like he was alone and hated he might just leave and join Luke as well (unlikely considering his fatal flaw but with Annabeth gone and him considering this a betrayal not very far off)

So maybe I rambled a but more than "little" but whatever

to this DAY I am obsessed with the dynamics in this scene. The Thalia v. Percy fight. Them being their fathers' children, giving us just a taste (a preview) of why the big three made an oath to never have any more demigod children. And then you have this interesting distinction of how Chiron interacts with Thalia vs Percy. Because with Thalia, Chiron is stern. He reprimands her. But with Percy, he pleads.... and isn't that just fascinating.

[aroaceleovaldez]

another thing with the first series Great Prophecy I think about a lot - “A half-blood of the eldest gods” could be interpreted so many different ways, and actually “A child of the Big 3″ doesn’t make any sense even in the contexts of the series.

To begin with, “A half-blood of” could mean a direct child, a legacy, or even just a chosen hero. As long as they’re presumably a demigod. We’re presuming half-blood means demigod here but honestly even that could be a vague point. “A half-blood of” does not specify direct descendant.

Then, if we’re saying “the eldest gods,” presuming “Gods” meaning the Olympians specifically, is the children of Kronos, then that means any demigod of any of the children of Kronos should count. Which means that Demeter should have been part of the oath too! But she wasn’t and her children weren’t even considered for the prophecy! And neither was there any consideration for adopted children or chosen heroes of Hera or Hestia! Heck, by that logic, Jason is like, potential prophecy kid squared (son of Jupiter and adopted by Hera/Juno - half-blood of two eldest gods! Plus he was turning 15 the year the Second Titanomachy ended. If Percy ended up not being the one to turn 16 then Jason would have been next. (Or well if we want to get technical Frank would have been next, as a descendant of Poseidon, but then Jason.)

But the thing is, even among the Olympians, the children of Kronos aren’t necessarily the oldest gods. Aphrodite is potentially older, depending on how you frame the timeline and her origin story (which in this case is relatively vague in the PJO universe - we don’t know if PJO Aphrodite is older or younger than Kronos’ children). So if Aphrodite is older than Kronos’ children, her children/descendants/chosen heroes could also potentially be children of the prophecy.

And it doesn’t stop there. Because it’s not specified that “gods” here is specifically restricted to the Olympians. “the eldest gods” could mean gods older than the Olympians, of which there are plenty. I mean, primordial gods? Gods of specific concepts? and that’s just the tip of the iceberg and isn’t even getting into defining “god” and if we’re counting like, the Titans or not (because sometimes they are counted! And sometimes they do have demigod children! Hello Dryas of Calydon, occasional son of Iapetus [aka Bob The Titan]).

And that’s all specifically mythological. If we’re talking historically eldest gods, then that’s a whole different ballpark. To begin with, A CHILD OF HADES THEORETICALLY DOES NOT EVEN QUALIFY TO BE THE CHILD OF THE PROPHECY! That’s right! If we’re going strictly historically eldest gods, then Hades even being part of the oath was completely moot because his children could not be the children of the prophecy! Because as far as we know, Hades does not predate the Greek dark ages! So Percy claiming the prophecy to prevent it from falling to Nico was potentially pointless! Percy on the other hand is then a very strong candidate for the prophecy, because it’s heavily implied his dad is specifically Mycenean Poseidon (”Earthshaker”), who does predate the Greek dark ages. But you know who’s potentially even older? HERMES. Which means Luke could be doubly the child of the prophecy for all we know! Cause the prophecy also does not specify that the child of the prophecy turning 16 is when the prophecy ends, just that they’ll reach 16 against all odds. Heck, if Luke’s first quest was when he was 16, then we can interpret that as when the prophecy begins and that it’s all his prophecy.

[latinopercy]

you mentioned in your pjo tv video essay (which i ADORED btw) that you hope the pjo tv series will explore how loyalty can be a fatal flaw, and im really looking forward to that too, but also… in the pjo books, do you think loyalty is percy’s fatal flaw, or do you think something else could be more fitting for him?

the flaws i think actually get to him more often are his stubborn belief in the idea that he is Always Right (which i don't think is a conscious thing. i dont think he realizes he does this. but this is part of why he goes on every quest that doesn't belong to him, why he butts heads with thalia and annabeth who are also always right, why he struggles with annabeth's attachment to luke for the whole series etc etc) and his susceptibility to the allure of pushing the limits of his own power (pushing the water to a point where he can't control it and nearly drowning the horses in botl, creating a whirlpool he gets caught in himself when he attacks juno in the dream at the end of son, realizing he can control anything that is mainly water and feeling something break in him when he does it in hoh). both flaws actually get percy into trouble and are things he's forced to overcome multiple times throughout multiple series, unlike personal loyalty, which we do see in the series mainly as part of his personality, but i wouldnt call it "fatal" or even really a flaw the way we see it in the series.

[twinsarekeepers]

The more I reread the PJO series, the more clear it is to me that Annabeth isn’t white.

(I know y’all are going to be in my mentions like “oh but she has blonde hair and grey eyes she can’t be black or brown” and I KNOW! I know RR saw her as a white girl when he was writing the books. I am aware of that fact. It just so happens that I can see a ton of my own experiences (specifically related to being a brown woman) in the way she’s perceived by other characters.)

So, like, in the first book, she was so mad at Percy because he got a quest even though he knew particularly nothing about the demigod world (and everything he did know was stuff she taught him) and she had been working basically her whole life to get one. I mean, seriously, she was more equipped to lead a quest because she’d literally lived on streets before. (And I know they banned quests after Luke’s and it was a special circumstance so they had to give one to Percy but it’s so clear that he has no idea what’s going on and that he agrees to bring Annabeth along because he knows he’ll need her intelligence and expertise to complete the quest).

And, like, she is literally the most educated, knowledgeable person on the Argo II, ffs she’s LITERALLY the daughter of Athena, but her intelligence is constantly questioned. (And I know it’s because RR was like “oh it’s because she’s blonde” 🙄 Istg, I’m going to strangle that man in his sleep). But, who is the most educated demographic in the US and are still constantly overlooked and their intelligence insulted? Black women. I just—RICHARD, IT WAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU IM GOING TO SCREAM!

The other characters see her as this strong, tough warrior, but she literally cries in every book. That’s not to say she’s not strong or tough or a warrior, but she is also soft and gentle and that’s extremely overlooked by not just the characters, but the fandom as well. The way she holds Percy’s hand in times when he’s stressed out and assures him when he’s feeling like he can’t do something. The way she comforts characters who are in emotional pain like Juniper and Silena. When Piper first got to camp and Annabeth showed her around and tried to make her feel at home. Even when Drew was being mean to Piper, Annabeth didn’t take sides and instead mitigated the tension. She cheered Hazel up after her fight with Jason. Frank came to her for advice and she was very considerate of his feelings and comfort. She was intuitive enough to figure out why Leo acted the way he did and than she defended his actions to Frank. These are all things that she does that are vulnerable and show her heart but most of the characters still view her as scary and intimidating.

And they see Annabeth as strong enough to just handle emotional turmoil all by herself. Like, y’all remember when Percy was kind of surprised that Annabeth needed a hug in BOTL? (Why? He’s seen her cry before. He’s seen her need comfort before. What makes him think it would be a one time thing?). Or when he didn’t tell her that he was worried about her? (He really said “stay here and protect Nico and Rachel”. And then in his head he was like, “I didn’t tell Annabeth but I was worried about her too.” MY GUY?? WHY WOULDN’T YOU TELL HER??) Or how about when she was literally sobbing on the ground after seeing Luke turn into Kronos and Percy, Rachel, and Nico were just … standing around, talking. Percy literally tried to pick a fight with her in that moment. Like, wtf was that?? (I mean, he tried to be a little bit more gentle with her when he was telling her to get up and leave but at that point, the damage is done, dude, you’ve already kicked her while she was down).

This connects to how she’s stripped of her femininity. The fact that she’s canonically good at weaving (a traditionally feminine task) and it seems to be forgotten by all the characters and even the fandom. The fact that she enjoys wearing dresses and makeup and jewelry but Percy finds those things awkward on her (I made a post about that here if y’all want to read it. The Richard stannies found it though so beware the notes). There are so many instances in the books where she so obviously fits into a traditionally feminine role but they’re glossed over or ignored. As a South Asian woman, I know how this feels.

Okay and then on Circe’s Island, when Circe said something like “oh and that HAIR!” and Annabeth was like “what’s wrong with my hair?” …. That’s a micro aggression if I’ve ever seen one. I just know if Annabeth was a white girl with type 3, loose ass curls, Circe would not have said that shit.

And all of the reasons we think Percy is not white ALSO APPPLY TO ANNABETH. Like, she went to through all the same stuff that Percy went through in the mortal world. She literally said as much in the beginning of TLT.

Annabeth is just so clearly not white to me. And the fact that RR didn’t see how so many of her experiences lined up with a black or brown woman’s will actually be my villain origin story. He really wrote “she’s oppressed because she’s blonde” with his whole chest. Great job in proving how much of a rich, white man you are, Richard.

[perceabeth]

i know this isn't really what you were talking about lskdkj but even just as a dynamic jercy pisses me off in canon bc rr clearly wanted them to be THE narrative foils of hoo but he didn't write in ANY nuance for them. like their dynamic is so built up as the leaders of their respective camps and opposite personalities and the different ways they go abt being Heroes but they r so boring and almost never interact... it's laughable comparing them to luke and percy in pjo who actually pulled off the Main Narrative Foils thing 😭

you're sooo right. i think it's because like riordan couldn't decide what to do with percy? he was meant to be a main character but also a side character. the lost trio was clearly set up to be The Focus Trio of the series-- they were all overpowered with little to no training the story began and ended with them and they were led by the Superman-eque Boy so u know it's meant to be about them

the reason luke and percy worked is because at some point luke saw himself in percy, just as percy saw a better future for himself in luke. they were similar in all ways but one- percy was guided predominantly by love and luke was guided predominantly by anger. the funny part about it is that luke did feel love at a very deep level, just as percy felt anger on a very deep level- it was what each character chose to act upon that made them different. that's a personality. that is what a narrative foil is meant to do: draw comparisons in character.

the percy/jason dynamic is so badly done because they aren't even friends. we don't actually see them as similar. sure, they fill in the same role at their respective camps: their lives may be symmetrical, but they themselves aren't that similar. are they both buried under responsibility? sure. but their core struggles are not even remotely the same. percy has already passed jason's current phase. he knows where he belongs, knows his role in the world, knows how to bear his burden. his problems come now from controlling the same flaws that he saw in LUKE, who remains a mirror to him despite being dead and gone. percy and jason aren't on the same journey!!

also this is a bit nit-picky, i know, but i find the whole 'jason is boring because he's a narrative foil to Interesting percy' SO so annoying lkjsdkfsjkf. first of all- i don't think characters who are straight-laced, morally inflexible, and tight lipped soldier types are boring. one dimensional, trope-filling characters are boring. jason didn't have to be a sarcastic quick witted impulsive lil shit to be fun! personally i don't think he's boring at all!! he's as full of wasted potential as any of the other hoo characters- they are all there to fill a role and be a trope. percy, annabeth, and nico are not exempt from it. a lot of what we know to be true about them are erased in hoo so that they will 'give space' to the new kids to fulfill their old role. it's so dumb and so offensive!!!

i'm sorry for talking so much, i'll wrap it up now but basically what i mean to say is: jason and percy don't work because jason is literally the lead while percy is reduced to comedic relief by the end. it's fine- not every stroy has to be centered around percy, but it makes drawing comparisons between them so cheap and tacky. they're not character foils. they're barely even in the same story. they're just two boys who kind of tolerate each other and pretend to be best friends with absolutely no explanation or chemsitry slkdjfklsdfj

[rynnaaurelius]

I posted 2,612 times in 2022

That's 277 more posts than 2021!

57 posts created (2%)

2,555 posts reblogged (98%)

Blogs I reblogged the most:

@phoenixyfriend

@zagreuses-toast

@darthlordcommie

@zoanzon

@vaspider

I tagged 2,609 of my posts in 2022

#pjo - 92 posts

#nature of the hellsite - 87 posts

#star wars - 71 posts

#art - 62 posts

#ofmd - 58 posts

#cats - 56 posts

#heroes of olympus - 55 posts

#gender things - 49 posts

#long post - 49 posts

#laugh rule - 47 posts

Longest Tag: 139 characters

#just god. give me the unspoken pain. give me the mistrust of 'you lied to me for them' and 'i of course place my life in your hands' at onc

My Top Posts in 2022:

#5

Once again thinking about how Jason and Reyna are Obscenely Young to be praetors of an entire legion--Luke was nineteen and head counselor! Clarisse and Beckendorf and Silena were all at least a year older than Jason/Reyna when they were head counselors!--and yeah, there's a whole Child Soldier thing being done with New Rome right there, to combine with it.

But the more I think about it, the proximity to Othrys plus the fact that Luke definitely took one look at New Rome and Had Feelings about it, there's, uh, something to be said for theorizing that the only reason Jason and Reyna are praetors instead of over-achieving centurions is that literally everyone else who would be ahead of them is Fucking Dead (Or Octavian, depending on how you headcanon it)

132 notes - Posted April 13, 2022

#4

Anyway, as long as we're all here, my hottest take about Heroes of Olympus is that Luke's ghost should've been it.

And I don't even mean him him (Though, Gaea resurrecting those who died fighting for Kronos to fight in turn for her would be. . .ugh. Give it to me). Just. . .his legacy.

Percy struggling as he starts to come closer to the age that Luke was when he first decided to steal the Master Bolt and start the war all those years ago.

Annabeth trying to figure out how to come terms with her relationship with Luke, how he hurt her but did all this so that she could live to adulthood, how he let her take the sky but never stopped trying to save her life.

He should've been echoing throughout every book. Everyone from the Titan War, who died in it, should've haunted the narrative as the survivors struggle to define what it's like to live in the aftermath, especially with yet another apocalypse bearing down on them and they're manipulated by the gods.

389 notes - Posted March 1, 2022

#3

Every time I see a "Luke Castellan was a bad person" take cross my dash, I get closer to writing a five thousand word meta about how the entire point of The Last Olympian and, arguably, the entire original series, is that Luke Was Right, Actually, and that Percy should've been radicalized in Heroes of Olympus

967 notes - Posted February 28, 2022

#2

I normally keep the MCU off this blog for reasons of It Pisses Me Off, but MCU!Wanda Maximoff is once again doing the rounds, so I'm not-so-kindly reminding you all that turning the Jewish-Romani daughter of a Holocaust survivor, who is often horrifically villainized in the comics, into a Christian white woman who joins up with the superpowered neo-Nazis and becomes the Girlboss Joker For MCU Stans sucks shit and I'll thank you all to keep it off my dash

992 notes - Posted May 8, 2022

My #1 post of 2022

Twitter has done exactly one thing right

1,059 notes - Posted September 8, 2022

Get your Tumblr 2022 Year in Review →

[the-ghost-king]

So I'm not going to start like an Anti-Chiron tag because I don't find that enjoyable personally, but every so often people ask why I dislike him so here's essentially a "masterpost" of my thoughts on that situation for when anyone asks, just so I have it to explain some...

This isn't nearly a full list, and there's many more "incidents" that make me less than fond of Chiron, I don't hate the old man but he leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I'm not a fan of that. He's a very twisted character.

- The Lightning Thief

This quote is literally just after Percy's mom "dies", they're all sitting on the porch of the Big House right after he's finally woken up after days of sleeping, and that's the line Chiron pulls out on him.

That's straight up emotional manipulation which was entirely unnecessary in the context of what Chiron was trying to explain. There wasn't a single reason for that, in the slightest.

Immediately following that, and Percy, who canonically has anger issues, does his best to remain calm, he is immediately threatened by Dionysus, and Chiron doesn't even tell Dionysus off for doing that; Chiron just let's it happen. It's Grover who has to speak up to tell Dionysus off...

The only reason Chiron comes out looking like a old guy in this scene is because Dionysus was so much worse in his behavior, at one point intimidating Percy with his power over madness.

- The Titan's Curse

This is the aftermath of when Nico ran away upon confirmation of Bianca's death. When Percy is telling Chiron about the situation, Chiron wishes Nico had been eaten alive rather than recruited into an army.

He'd rather a child be dead than fight against him, and he openly tells this to other children he's in charge of. If Percy went missing would he have said "I hope he was eaten <3" as well?

I don't blame Perry for not delivering the truth here, it was done in an effort to protect Nico; which wasn't something Annabeth had planned on doing... I don't blame Annabeth for that though either, she's been beneath Chiron so long that she probably doesn't realize the shady stuff he does, and to her "going to tell" probably was the "right" move because she was a child...

But the fact that Chiron believes Nico truly would be better off eaten than alive :/

- Tower of Nero

This quote from Tower of Nero shows that Chiron lied to a bunch of young children (most of them were young because the older campers are largely dead because of the war or too old for camp now). It wasn't just a little white lie that adults sometimes tell kids either; they were walking into battle and he told them it was a field trip.

Did he even begin to explain the danger he was putting these kids in? Did the children understand their situation? And how dangerous it was?

Kayla has been blindsided over the years into thinking that telling children they're going on a field trip instead of fighting a battle is something to make a joke of and not be questioned... (Again, I don't blame her she's only like 12 in the book, but still)

Apollo also agrees, which isn't on Chiron but it's a whole mother reason why I can't stand Rick's interpretation of Apollo...

<><><><><>

This isn't me being like "oh Chiron is the worst most evil character ever" I just think that he has numerous flaws which are largely ignored in favor of the "perfect wise teacher" narrative when in fact Chiron and Dumbledore share a lot of.. Offputting qualities.

I do think that some of the situation is simply a result of Chiron having his hands tied behind his back by the gods some. And he even goes so far as to confirm this in a scene of TLT

However many of the scenes in which he exhibits behaviors like that in my first three screenshots are not related to anything the gods require and are, in fact, of Chiron's own free will.

Some things I would blame Zeus and the council for, such as how he withholds information from Percy to an excessive amount for long periods of time even when Percy straight up asks about things. I could easily see that being Zeus trying to prevent Percy from claiming the prophecy as his own, and I could see reasoning that maybe Chiron had sworn over the River Styx or something similar.

But those things don't apply to Chiron making such an unnecessary comment about Percy's mother so close to her "death". It doesn't explain why he would say he hoped Nico had been eaten out loud, and it doesn't cover the fact that he led children into a battlefield without telling them that's what was happening.

I think the context of Chiron's choices and comments would be different if the campers were older. If they were in their late teens or early twenties for the most part, I wouldn't really have much to say about how Chiron handled the situation.

But this man is in charge of children and extremely young teenagers, Percy is only 12 in TLT, maybe if he would have been 16 or 17 then I could give Chiron a pass, but he wasn't. Within the context of the comment he made in the Titan's Curse, Percy is only 14 and Nico is 10 at the beginning of the book... You don't wish a 10 year old had been eaten alive by a monster no matter how bad you think the alternative is, and if you do wish that you don't say it out loud to a group of other children. In the battle from Tower of Nero we get a quick look at the battlefield, and although Ben's age, and the age of another girl fighting alongside him are never confirmed they are implied to be fairly young, and we know Kayla is only 12 at the time too; yet Chiron told them it was a field trip instead of a battle, limiting the time they would have to mentally prepare themselves for what was coming.

On top of that, the nods the reader gets to the fact that Chiron can't act out against the gods depletes over the course of the series. After TLT the amount of times the situation involves the gods interfering with what Chiron is allowed to say lessens, and by the time the Heroes of Olympus series comes around, these limitations on his speech is almost entirely gone. Yet as seen in Tower of Nero he still does morally questionable things in regards to how he treats the campers.

Like I said, I recognize that in many scenes Chiron's hands are tied behind his back because of the gods.. But there are undeniably things he does of his own free will that are, in the nicest manner, very :/

This also isn't a full list of comparisons just a few notable scenes. I don't think Chiron is equally as bad as Dumbledore, but I think it undeniable that Chiron has some significant flaws built into his character design.

A good character has flaws, and there's nothing wrong with having a character that doesn't always conduct themselves properly or have good intentions- it's actually good writing, and I can appreciate that, but for some reason I find myself personally rubbed the wrong way by Chiron. This doesn't make Chiron badly written, or poorly designed, in fact I would say Rick's Chiron is very well designed in lots of ways, but I just don't like how it's never acknowledged by anyone in the series.

Like I said, I'm not starting an anti-Chiron situation, I just think little events like those mentioned, the way he's built a child army, and how he doesn't even try to plead with the gods over raising the ages on campers being allowed to battle is a little sus. But it more so bothers me that there's no attention payed to this problem anywhere in the books, not even by a side character or Luke, nowhere.

I don't actually care that much and this isn't that important to me, but sometimes people ask why I don't like Chiron and this is basically just my explanation to hand off to them... It's not even so much that I dislike Chiron entirely, he's well written and has his "good" moments, I just don't like the way other characters interact with him and his actions.

It's more a personal beef with him rather than an aspect of poor writing or him "being bad"... PJO in general (and HoO/ToA to a much lesser extent) shows that there's not such an inherent good vs bad in the world, and that sometimes people are victims of circumstances in some situations, or they're horribly misguided in their actions, but the series does a good job of showing those people as human still, and I applaud that.

I don't really know how to tie this up in its entirety, but there's nothing wrong with having a morally grey character who does questionable things and in many aspects it is good writing. I think Chiron is a result of Rick not thinking through the implications what he's doing in lots of situations, and I can see a fairly consistent drop in Chiron's characterization from PJO-ToA which is consistent with most other aspects of Rick's work.

I also want to clarify that if you like Chiron and disagree with me, that's absolutely 110% okay, I just personally dislike Chiron and that's on me. Like my problem with many of Rick's other immortal characters, I think he missed important aspects of them in some manner and slightly (or entirely in some cases) mischaracterized them in comparison to their original myths.. Some of these characters he came around on and fixed their character in many aspects to their more "correct" characterization (like Hera), while others (like Chiron and Apollo) he never quite figured them out. Which is a running complaint I have with Rick so I'm just adding this to his tab.

But yeah, I don't hate Chiron I just dislike him and those are different things, and I don't think it's a bad thing to have a morally questionable character, Chiron just personally rubs me the wrong way and I just wanted to explain that more fully because I've been asked about it multiple times.

Also I apologize for not adding a [read more] to this, it's a complaint of mine often when scrolling through the tags but I'm on mobile currently and don't have immediate access to a computer so~