#cleric of lolth

[princefleabitten]

Sketches for that one Drizzt book everybody read (Legend of Drizzt: Homeland)

[trappedinafantasy37]

Why is Minthara a paladin and not a cleric?

TLDR; Minthara is forced into being a paladin by the games mechanics as the game does not allow for a godless cleric.

If you dig into drow lore, you'll know that all noble females receive training to become clerics, or priestesses, of Lolth. Given Minthara's status as a female in House Baenre, she would have had no choice but to become a cleric. So, why is she not?

Unfortunately, the game does not provide any explanation as to why she went down the path of a paladin. There does tend to be a lot of overlap between clerics and paladins so I think she most likely would have chosen to become a paladin while in training to be a cleric. While the game was still in EA, WOTC released Magic the Gathering cards of the NPC's in the game and Minthara is listed as a cleric on her card. When you meet her in Act 1, she's also wielding two maces, which is the stereotypical weapons for a cleric. Her AI when she's just an NPC and not a companion also tends to default her to a support role rather than a martial one. To compare, Zevlor is also a paladin but his AI defaults him to a martial role rather than support.

I do think at some point it may be possible that she was intended to be a cleric but was later changed to a paladin as her story evolved. Specifically involving where she abandons the gods. Per the rules of 5e, it is possible to have a godless paladin and a godless cleric, though, a godless cleric is probably not too popular in most DnD circles. If she was a cleric, Minthara would become a godless cleric as she swears off all gods.

Unfortunately, the game does not allow for clerics to be godless, even though you can be in the 5e rules of DnD which the game does follow. If you choose to be a cleric in the game, you are forced to pick a god. And since Minthara is classified as Lolth-sworn by the game, she would be forced to be a cleric of Lolth by the games mechanics, which would break her established lore.

I also think having Minthara as a cleric would bring some competition with Shadowheart. Most team builds really don't need nor want more than one cleric and Shadow is the first one you get. If Minthara was a cleric, players would be less inclined to have Minthara on their teams cause they already have a cleric. they also may struggle to want to swap Shadow out for Minthara as players will have established a rapport with Shadow by the time Minthara becomes available. I mean, look at Halsin and Jaheira. There are two druid companions, but most people who want a druid on their team will probably only pick one druid and/or reclass one character if they want both.

However, Halsin was never intended to be a companion and was shoved in last second, which is why there are two druids. There may have been enough time to make him a companion, but not enough time to completely overhaul his story in which he wouldn't be a druid and compete with Jaheira. But, Minthara was always intended to be a companion character so Larian probably foresaw the potential conflict between her and Shadow and were able to mitigate that early on by making her a paladin instead.

So, yeah. Minthara is a paladin cause the mechanics of the game kind of force her to be one and there is no lore explanation. Not that I'm complaining. She is absolutely bonkers of a paladin! But, I think it would have been very interesting for her to have been a cleric.

[rew0205]

[itsalwaysalmostchristmas]

Rework of Viconia Devir

So, I had been working on two different ideas: How to rework Viconia where her whole story arc from the previous games doesn't get shat on and how to make the Tadpole Troupe more diverse.

I don't know why the thought came to me but it did: Shadowheart should've (or I think it would've been fun) been Viconia's daughter.

Please hear me out!

If you don't know, Viconia has literally the worse luck in the world it seems, like read her wiki page history I'm sure that's just then tip of the iceberg.

When travelling with Gorion's Ward she is a cleric of Shar, and if not romanced, after their adventures she goes to Waterdeep to run an enclave there, which Viconia in BG3 does tell us:

[Viconia DeVir: I had an enclave in Waterdeep, you know. Much grander than this. Shar ordered me to raze it, kill all who followed me - claim they betrayed me, when in fact I slew those who showed nothing but loyalty.]

I really think Viconia remaining with Shar sucks major balls. Literally, she goes on to be a hero in her own right in her epilogue:

[No longer with Protagonist, Viconia went on to found a cult dedicated to Shar in the city of Waterdeep. One of her followers betrayed her, however, prompting the slaughter of the whole tainted lot. Shar admonished Viconia strongly for this, but she was unrepentant and again wandered the Realms. Viconia was still formidable, and went on to prevent an attempt by the Knights of the Shield to take over Calimport, even worked with Drizzt Do'Urden to save the elven city of Suldanessalar from a Zhentarim plot. For this last act, the elves accepted her, and Queen Ellesime bestowed the highest honors of the Seldarine, an accolade never before given to one of her dark kind. Viconia reportedly bowed without emotion, and then left. Her fate remains unknown.]

Does that sound like someone who would continue to follow Shar?? My gal work with Drizzt Do'Urden! Saved at least two cities! Bestowed the highest award that no drow had ever received!?

Seriously, to me Viconia DeVir and Mother Superior are two completely different characters.

So, how does this work out for her to be Shadowheart's mother? I've got two alternatives that I could see the story using both at the same time, which they do with Gorion's Ward and Abdel Adrian.

Option 1: Viconia had a relationship with a human Selûnite

It could've been in Viconia's wanderings she save a town/village and a human took a keen liking to her. Either a fling or a genuine relationship, Viconia ends up pregnant and out shoots Jenevelle. You could still have it that her dad was a werewolf, but because he's human the years of torture on that torture disk thing caused him to perish.

(whatever that thing is)

Option 2: Shadowheart is the daughter of Viconia and Gorion's Ward

So, in Viconia's romanced ending she has a son with Gorion's Ward and fucking dies.

[Protagonist and Viconia continued adventuring long after leaving Tethyr. He became an important political figure, and she was his trusted counsel. Eventually Viconia bore Protagonist's child, which first served to strain their relationship. The birth, however, changed her, and she dedicated herself to raising the boy, teaching both the ways of the drow and of Protagonist's people. She marvelled at the understanding in his eyes, but unfortunately, didn't live to see him grow. Viconia was poisoned by a servant of Lolth, her last words whispered to her loving mate in private. Protagonist raised his son in secret, and tales vary on the result. Some say they waged a crusade against the drow, but all agree that the former child of Bhaal never forgot the love of his dark maiden.]

Obviously this isn't canon anymore, I guess? But, we've seen in the game Larian picks and chooses bits n pieces from the source material. I also don't like how Gorion's Ward isn't mentioned too much, I did hear that apparently Tav was meant to be a child of Gorion's Ward before it got scrapped and I do like the idea of descentants being part of the party.

If they had chosen this route of Shadowheart being Gorion's Ward and Viconia's child they could twist it in a few ways:

Viconia and Gorion's Ward did have a son but he was killed by Lolth servants rather than Viconia, making Shadowheart their second child.

Viconia and Gorion's Ward did have a son and they had Shadowheart as well but Gorion's Ward was killed by Lolth servants rather than Viconia, making the son still alive.

They never had a son, Lolth servant still kills Gorion's Ward

They never had a son, no Lolth servant kills anyone but Gorion's Ward still dies before we see Viconia again because people would not like a retconned CHARNAME we hate you abdel adrian fuck you

I think option 3 or 4 would make more sense game wise because you could still be vague on whether or not Shadowheart's other parent was Gorion's Ward, that way the player can decide based on who they romanced in their playthroughs. I do like option 2, either the brother could've spent all these years looking for his mother and sister and trying to save them or on the torture disk with his mother.

Also I don't think Viconia would become a Selûnite herself, honestly. I feel like two goddess' fucking you over would put you off worshipping another. However, I could see her wanting the best for her children, it says so in her epilogue she is a dedicated mother and I could imagine her wanting to set her child on the right path, some insecurity of poisoning her child's chance of a good life by being their mother.

I've said this in a post before but I genuinely didn't realise that Shadowheart's dad was a werewolf until I read it in a wiki article. I thought it was a manipulated memory and her dad (who we could switch out for Viconia) was illusion or replaced by a wolf to instil a fear in Shadowheart and make it seem like Mother Superior had saved her.

And, could you imagine the scene! You've defeated Mother Superior and her enclave, you got to where Shadowheart's parents are, with Minisc and Jaheira in your party, and hanging limp on the torture disk thing is the familiar face of Viconia DeVir.

Also Viconia's child being a target of Shar feels more possible than some random Selûnite couple. Honestly, you could take the whole Selûnite bit out. Could you imagine how pissed a god, especially one like Shar, would be if someone who had just killed a whole enclave of followers just shrugged of being scorned by you? Wouldn't you want to make them suffer for years? Make them remember what kind of god you are?

Anyways, here's half-drow Shadowheart!

(please excuse spelling mistakes and grammar I'm dyslexic)

[justgerlionstuff]

Continuation~

“After Moonrise,” pt. 1🕸️

•

I will probably write their stories on AO3, stay tuned for that if you are interested in them.❤️

[whitegoldtower]

Modern AU Wyll would take Vesz and Karlach to McDonalds and buy them happy meals (And 5 extra triple cheeseburgers for Vesz).

You can’t tell me that this big dumb drow wouldn’t immediately start playing with the toy with a burger hanging out of his mouth and his fingers covered in oil and salt from the fries lmao

Karlach joins in and they’re just sat there making their happy meal toys fight

[umbreon482]

Hello everyone, been playing bg3 more than doing art. I am 2 hours short of having 500 in the game lol. But here's the usual art dump. A lot of these are either wips or doodles, but some are my dnd group's pcs (Kir the barbarian and Anchises the fighter), my specialist tav Mournlyn and their boyfriend Elklyre (who belongs to my bf), Joel having been remade as a sorcerer, an Atlas sketch, and a sketch of Richmond and Jay, his former love interest in a campaign that got discontinued.

[vampireamon]

I should be doing homework. But this has lived rent free in my brain for 6 months. Sanguine, his wife Viravos and his boyfriend Chaixos. The drow really do have more fun.

[talesofthedice]

Sold our heart to Lolth tonight 🙃

[hylorien]

D I E N N E - DEVIL SLAYER

[asha-mage]

DnD Character Concept: A Cleric who insists stubbornly and earnestly that their obviously evil patron deity (I'm thinking Lolth or Asmodeus but really any Evil Greater God would do) is actually Good and Benevolent and Just and dismisses all evidence to the contrary as slander from rival deities. Their proof to their claim? Using their divinely granted powers for the most intensely Good tasks and quests they can find: feeding the hungry, protecting the weak, curing the sick- all done in the name of their Terrible Dread Lord and without any expectation of compensation or string attached.

The deity in question is all "???" but keeps granting the cleric power because all that free worship and influence from the people who now pray to them is nice, and hey if the cleric wants to put in the leg work to launder the deity's reputation what reason do they have to say no?

Only it turns out that the cleric is actually playing 4D chess because of the way faith works in Faerun (and most DnD settings). As more and more worshipers start believing The Terrible Dread Lord is actually a Good and Kind and Noble god they start to be influenced by that to become Good and Kind and Noble. Slowly but surely they find themselves warping to match the perception of the masses. It starts by just giving a few random blessings out of what they think is pity, or maybe sending a sign to help someone who is lost on what the deity insists is a whim....but it snowballs until you have Lolth smiting down slavers or Asmodeus sending out devil's to drag down a tyrant to the depths of hell and then they realize 'oh oh no' but by then it's to late: the religious reform movement within their flock is too massive and been ignored for too long as benign. They can't just turn around and smite their own followers- not only because it's tacky but because they feel... compassion and responsibility for those that look to them for guidece.

And then you have the cleric, who at level twenty is literally their most powerful agent and also the high priest of this out of control heresy smugly sipping their tea because, because they where right all along. Their faith in their deity is vindicated- after all what is faith if not believing in something so strongly, against all evidence, that it becomes truth onto itself?

[tethys-the-aquatic-sea-godness]

The worst thing is, Viconia would've fit perfectly in Shadowheart's storyline. From Viconia's (non-romanced) epilogue, we know this:

Viconia does found a cult of Shar in Waterdeep and she is betrayed by one of her followers. She is, not Shar. Shar, in fact, admonishes Viconia for this, showing she clearly never ordered that. And Viconia does not give a damn. This is the woman who left the cult of Lolth and went to the 'lighter' option that was Shar (compared to Lolth). She already deals with agents sent by Lolth, she's not going to let Shar tell her what to do.

The nature of the betrayal Viconia was the subject of is left entirely up to the player. With Viconia and Shadowheart's backstory being what they are, Shar's plot for a Selûnite child could've been perfectly inserted as the reason for Viconia's falling out with Shar.

Viconia left Lolth because of how children were treated, how she was treated herself. She did not turn to Shar to do the same thing. She would reject Shar's plot the moment the order came, and that would be the perfect trigger for one of her follower to turn of her. Shar's cult being what it is, I don't think taking down the whole lot is overkill to avoid further backstabbing. There aren't many who will pick their priestress over their goddess, especially not with how Sharran's faith emphasizes self-effacing. Can't make a decision for yourself when you don't think for yourself.

Shar's reprimends following what Viconia did further proves this wasn't what the goddess wanted. Complete that by adding she's incensed Viconia rejected her order and slaughtered her willing clerics, and you've got the perfect connection between Viconia and Shadowheart.

In BG 3, we could've met Viconia in Baldur's Gate, rather annoyed because she's been getting an influx of Sharran agents after her, and she's tracking the source to put an end to it. A Shar-aligned Shadowheart could've the mission to purge the cloister that failed to kill her, while a Selûne-aligned Shadowheart would work with her to put and end to the cloister, to give them both some peace and quiet.

Epilogue could've them both sharing tips on 'How to best kill an agent of faith sent after you'. They both have sharp tongues and a similar past, they could've had fantastic banter.

Instead we have this mess.

[trappedinafantasy37]

Minthara making fun of Shadowheart for being a cleric: 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Minthara making fun of me for being a cleric: 😥😥😥😥

[pinacoladamatata]

the Tav that's out here balduring my gate

[justgerlionstuff]

The Spider Mistress herself. Arachnid-eye terror of the battlefields.

[whitegoldtower]

Let the cunty priest cook ok

(Not even an hour into his fucking playthrough and he's already broken his oath by hacking Gale's hand off. Lolth persuaded him to take an oath she knew he would break, just so he could become an oathbreaker and get even stronger. He's upset about breaking it, but has taken the power he's been granted as a sign from Lolth that this was meant to happen.)

Also for those who haven’t seen my other posts about Vesz, this guy’s as tall as a castle wall and twice as thick. He stupid. He dumb. He don’t know shit about fuck. A total moron. But really *really* powerful.

He makes all these menacing, smouldering expressions but there is jack shit going on in that smooth little bhaal-brain, aside from his mommy issues, prayer time and bisexual panic.