#dorian discourse

[rubinaitoart]

There’s a lot going on here that I frankly don’t have the energy to cover, but here’s some food for thought.

I’ve been thinking about the current state of the fandom, and the actions Dorian has been taking. It’s been putting me off because for the most part, there’s a gray area in which fandom operates in any piece of media; and Dorian is effectively meddling with that gray area in a way that is driving fans away. It’s been bothering me on a level I couldn’t really put my finger on.

And then I remembered, Dorian may be the copyright holders and owners of the game. But they aren’t the creators. This is where the disconnect is, and why they’re overstepping.

Legally they are within their right to do (most of) of what they are doing. It’s cruddy and violates a lot of the unspoken rules that exist between the fans and the creators, but they can do it. It’s very obvious that it’s targeted right now but that’s an entirely different topic that I don’t think I can comfortably discuss.

It’s interesting because there is another fandom I know of that is seeing (if it hasn’t concluded already) a slightly similar problem. The Undertale fandom has recently flocked around a fan game, Undertale Yellow—which used music from the original game. As far as I’m aware, the creator—Toby Fox—was fine with it. However, the copyright holders were not. Materium Music’s CEO did not want to allow the release of UTY’s album on YouTube and other streaming services even though Toby Fox approved of it. The soundtrack had many original elements but reused motifs and other fragments from Undertale’s soundtrack.

Sound familiar?

But while UTY had the original creator helping fight for their rights as fan creators, we do not. And so the copyright holders, Dorian, are doing what they can to protect the assets they own with very little thought for the creations outside of their own platform. The time and effort that goes into creating. The beautiful dedication to the game that, while they own, they did not create and as such they cannot appreciate it fully.

[bread-wizards]

I actually think Dorian and Orym should fight more.

Remember when their slowly building tension over and entire episode (full of passive aggressive remarks and blame throwing) led to threats? And how after, Orym thanked Dorian for handing over the crown sadly because he knew Dorian would be mad at him? And Dorian couldn't even look at him because he was legitimately hurt, thinking Orym was disappointed in him for doing what he thought was right? That was peak.

The fact they went from that to their current closeness and trust is the best part of their entire dynamic. Their relationship was hard fought and still will be. They will fight for it because they respect and care for one another deeply, and their disagreements don't change that, only improve it.

[resvarie]

King of Swords | XI. Justice | Six of Cups

i started and finished dragon age inquisition in like 2 weeks. my victory lap is drawing my inquisitor’s tarot cards!

[zwoftt]

people being mad and hating c3: me in the corner liking c3 because of how relatable dorian storm is as a character to me personally and being very invested in dorym:

[californiannostalgia]

the Exandrian gods are not gods of a religion.

functionally speaking, they are billionaires sponsoring their favorite projects and striking down any potential competition to preserve the existing world order.

yes, there are good billionaires. does this solve the bad billionaire problem? does this make the absolute concentration of power controlling global socioeconomics moral? can they guarantee an eternity without corruption? can they guarantee a decade of it?

can any decisions that they make be in consideration of the whole picture, when they are so separated from the realities of the vast majority? do the gods listen if they aren't Divine Champions or PC adventurers (which are a privileged few)?

come on.

what do we do to the billionaires?

We eat them.

[quinn-of-aebradore]

Something that really makes me feel insane about Ashton is the way a solid chunk of their arguments have always been that they’re Just A Guy. They’re nobody. They’re nothing. The gods never paid any attention to me, I don’t matter. I’m not special. And sure, with the information that was available early in the campaign, that was a reasonable conclusion for them to have drawn.

But now? When they know the powers that live inside them, powers that never have been combined before and likely never will be again? When several people have all independently pointed out how unprecedented their existence is? That basis for their argument loses all credibility. How many people on Exandria are walking around day to day with a fragment of a titan and a piece of the Luxon inside them? One. Ashton is a singularly unique being. “I’m nobody, I don’t matter,” bitch you’re the main character in a YA novel, calm down.

[exutrio]

so no dorian storm at the shattered teeth?

[rubinaitoart]

Oh this is just getting ridiculous. As if their ads aren’t already plastered over the main page.

FINALLY, got my hands on the update and ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!

EXCUSE ME WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT?!

[juneleaf]

dorian pavus and maevaris tilani are giving out free top surgeries at the lucerni

[rubinaitoart]

Alright I’m joining the complaint bandwagon here.

I’ll be honest I was fine with the Community Tab and I could handle the pop-ups at the start. I get it, Dorian wants users to check out their app. There’s plenty of advertisement for it, I’m sure it works well.

So why are they adding two new links to NON-DAILY events to the Dailies screen? These could fit perfectly as a regular pop-up, or in the community tab.

I also want to touch on the change to the Tales button. They swapped it so that Tales is the smaller one and the larger one takes you to Dorian. It irks me, a lot.

They said they wouldn’t touch it. Now it’s being turned into an advertising platform and losing the charm and magic that it originally had when I first got it.

[caeslxys]

I’ve mentioned this elsewhere but it feels relevant again in light of the most recent episode. Something that’s really fascinating to me about Orym’s grief in comparison to the rest of the hells’ grief is that his is the youngest/most fresh and because of that tends to be the most volatile when it is triggered (aside from FCG, who was two and obviously The Most volatile when triggered.)

As in: prior to the attack on Zephrah, Orym was leading a normal, happy, casual life! with family who loved him and still do! Grief was something that was inflicted upon him via Ludinus’ machinations, whereas with characters like Imogen or Ashton, grief has been the background tapestry of their entire lives. And I think that shows in how the rest of them are largely able to, if not see past completely (Imogen/Laudna/Chetney) then at least temper/direct their vitriol or grief (Ashton/Fearne/Chetney again) to where it is most effective. (There is a glaring reason, for example, that Imogen scolded Orym for the way he reacted to Liliana and not Ashton. Because Ashton’s anger was directed in a way that was ultimately protective of Imogen—most effective—and Orym’s was founded solely in his personal grief.)

He wants Imogen to have her mom and he wants Lilliana to be salvageable for Imogen because he loves Imogen. But his love for the people in his present actively and consistently tend to conflict with the love he has for the people in his past. They are in a constant battle and Orym—he cannot fathom losing either of them.

(Or, to that point, recognize that allowing empathy to take root in him for the enemy isn't losing one of them.)

It is deeply poignant, then, that Orym’s grief is symbolized by both a sword and shield. It is something he wields as a blade when he feels his philosophy being threatened by certain conversational threads (as he believes it is one of the only things he has left of Will and Derrig, and is therefore desperately clinging onto with both bloody hands even if it makes him, occasionally, a hypocrite), but also something he can use in defense of the people he presently loves—if that provocative, blade-grief side of him does not push them—or himself—away first.

(it won’t—he is as loved by the hells as he loves them. he just needs to—as laudna so beautifully said—say and hear it more often.)

[lilpandrea]

God, not that anyone cares, but I might have to take a break from the cr fandom whenever Dorian speaks about or to the gods. The moment Dorian isn't some goody-two-shoes character and veers off from being an "agreeable" character to many...how easily these ppl just write him off as some stupid simpleton. Jfc from discord to Tumblr (don't know what twitter thinks since I don't frequent that place or live chat because when is live chat ever appeased).

Anyways, I'm excited to see what comes from this conversation with the AH. Cmiiw but I don't think Dorian knows you have to be an exalted ruidusborn to be a vessel. If he did, he wouldn't willynilly agree to sacrifice Fearne or Imogen. It's like a lot of you forgot one of his core values: his friends/loved ones above everyone else. He casted force cage on Fearne in the very same episode to protect her.

[utilitycaster]

I’ve previously covered the issue of people making false accusations that the fandom’s opinions are based in bigotry. Let’s talk about a related issue: the impossible-to-prove hypothetical.

The statement that the fandom would support the statement that the strong will survive and the weak will be remade if the Wildmother said it is an example of this. She didn’t say that, and Ka’Mort did, so even if she were to say it in the future I think most people would recognize that the problem is the message, not the person delivering it. I don’t think the claim the fandom would blindly support the Wildmother if she said something with such a fascist tinge is true, though I certainly can't confirm it (which again, may be the goal of those who make this sort of unprovable claim). More importantly, it attempts, poorly, to sidestep the actual critique: that saying the strong will survive a cataclysmic change and the weak will be "remade" is extremely in line with real world far-right groups talk about ethnic cleansing, and that Ashton seems to have no issue with vast power differentials and immortal beings who have previously aligned themselves with the gods and intended the destruction of mortals (and from EXU Calamity we know this is not merely a history written by the victors) as long as it's the power he can access. This isn't about breaking thrones: it's a coup, not a revolution.

This sort of...I can't call it an argument, because it's not one, but I suppose it is an attempt at one - often goes unchallenged because there’s no way to debunk it, even though it's ultimately a "what if the world were made of pudding." If canon were different, it sure would be different. Is the problem that the statement "If they're strong, they will. If not, they'll be remade into something stronger" in response to the question of whether mortals will survive a massive upheaval is one with concerning implications? If so, then why endorse it when Ka'Mort says it? If not, then why would it be a problem if the Wildmother had said it instead? Notice how the person making this "argument" actually does exactly what they're accusing the fandom of doing. They are clearly basing their judgment not on whether or not this is a problematic statement, but rather either the source of said statement, or the person to whom it's being said.

The "look at Ashton’s shoelaces" argument is the same exact problem - it doesn’t address the actual issue of "Ashton seems to be receptive to the idea of the elimination of 'weak' mortals." Indeed, it strengthens the counterargument, that many punks are more concerned with aesthetics and appearance than actual support, and that the fans invoking the fact that Ashton is a punk, or disabled, or nonbinary are focusing only on what they are (with an unstated assumption that these identities automatically lend them validity, which they do not) and not what they do or believe.

The problem is what they are doing and believing. Who they are is not important; what they are doing is. I don't want to make a call re: stupidity or malice here, but if the former, if you cannot understand the point of contention, you are not qualified to engage in this discussion, and if the latter, well, no use listening to a bad faith argument.

[zwoftt]

you gotta know i was still fishin for those dorym moments ((even in this super tense episode)

despite the discourse.

liam/orym nodding and hyping up robbie/dorian’s force cage move on fearne. also was the one to usher him into making the decision even when he was being hesitant about it

honorable mention: robbie saying “i’m still in the hallway :(“ and liam laughing super hard

the little nod liam/orym makes when dorian asks fearne “who do you see as your real father?”.

robbie/dorian frantically trying to figure out the best way to get rid of the guards who were coming over to him to grab the emissary; liam/orym saying “cmon rizz. let’s go rizzler” to hype him up

during the arch heart talk, [i think] i saw robbie and liam glance over at one another a couple of times to see reactions to certain things…. and then of course the pain-filled face liam makes for orym when dorian says his speech.

i wonder if i missed anything small, but for now this is what i got! it’s crumbs!! i’m hoping for a conversation between dorian and orym next episode, or at least an explanation from dorian as to why he “won’t ever like the gods. ever.” i NEED that angst to be shown. because he is being MISUNDERSTOOD in game and out of game by watchers. i’ve been craving a heart to heart convo between just dorian and orym for the longest time now though so fingers crossed. my boys needa hug and make out or whateva.

DORIAN DISCUSS!

the world is ending pretty damn fast according to the arch heart and i know deep down in my little soul that dorian “i would do anything for my friends” storm would not betray or do anything without his group, and quite frankly without orym; who he’s said multiple times was his line of following [and because of how tunnel visioned he seems to still be regarding orym in general.] dorian doesn’t know what’s right or wrong anymore, he’s trying to honor his brother by doing the right thing. and not even that is being settled. it’s only natural for him to go a little bit angry. especially when he’s been back in BH for what? five days? he doesn’t know everything that’s happened, and BH clearly doesn’t know everything that he’s been through either. can you even begin to imagine how it feels to know that your brother was mercilessly killed by a goddess, (who’s kin was asked to help with this same fight and did nothing as-well) and you might not be able to ever get the satisfaction of giving her that same pain, so all you do now is try and do the ‘right thing’ because it’s what your murdered brother would do?? but now that part is steering off the edge too??? yeah. yeah i think i’d be pretty fucking angry too.

[redwinesupernoova]

THANK YOU ROBBIE DAYMOND for clearing the air for the people who are chronically incapable of understanding motivations, and saying that Dorian did NOT choose to sacrifice his friends, that he was not choosing between them, and that he wouldn't agree to it if they wont.

[spicypotstickerbliss]

Hot take if you finish reading 'The Picture of Dorian Grey' and think the pursuit of pure aestheticism and hedonism (and nothing else) is romanticized, I think you might need to read it again.

Wilde did not write a whole book called 'man commits horrific atrocities for pretty privilege' just so twenty-first century readers could go uwu they're hot gay and heroically tragic. (they ARE hot and gay, but that's not the *point*)