#grisha discourse

[poorlythoughtoutdescisions]

crawling back to six of crows after visiting the shadow and bone fandom.

ngl the SaB fandom is toxic, and they have good reason, a lot of the characters kinda suck (among other reasons), but will they seriously shut up with the same discourse over and over? we get it, you don't like any of the characters or the plot or anything about the series, SO WHY ARE YOU IN THE FANDOM???

meanwhile SoC is mostly pretty fanart, not a shipping war in sight, and interesting and productive conversations about the series and characters. it's made up of people who enjoy the material.

(not that there aren't some issues, but it's mostly outliers)

fandoms aren't spaces made to hate. they're because you LIKE the source material.

just my thoughts, feel free to disagree, it's just a bit frustrating.

[brainrotfromhorny]

The entirety of Siege and Strorm the Darkling is manipulating Alina, tempting her with power and sex and all that ✨ fun ✨ stuff. Meanwhile Mal is manipulating her like that guy you meet in college who is willing to hook up but he can't be together with you because this semester he's taking like, fifteen credits ;c

[greensaplinggrace]

“but the otkazat’sya are suffering too!” girl the otkazat’sya have one thousand safe havens to choose from. because it is their entire country and they are the privileged majority. they never have to fear that they are alone or isolated or vulnerable in a land that caters directly to them. do you understand. the grisha have one safe haven in a land that fucking hates them and seeks to strip away their basic human rights at every second. they are not the same.

Wdyt about Israel Palestine

i think that anybody trying to bring a real life attempt at fucking genocide into petty fandom bullshit maybe needs to take a step back a little. what the fuck is wrong with you people.

i think that i don't know nearly enough about the situation to make a statement about anything, but it's pretty damn obvious that israel is making an attempt at wiping out palestine. next person to bring this subject into my ask box as fandom discourse is getting blocked by the way. there are people fucking dying out there right now.

i also think that it's fucking ridiculous to take a statement out of context and try to spin it in some accusatory direction, considering the context is that the otkazat'sya hold irrevocable power within this fictional universe and seek to cull the grisha despite their safe haven. which is genocide. last I checked genocide is bad. it really shouldn't have to be stated that this is fucking fiction versus reality, though. literally what the fuck.

[gzltheduck]

Nuance is really dead. I just read a bunch of…wild takes about the Darkling/people who like him.

But well, to each their own, I guess🦆

[aleksanderscult]

I'm really appreciative of some good fucking discourse about the Darkling bc tbh, the first time I tried to read the books, I gave up after the reveal that he was the villain of the series. Even to a 14 year old, it was disappointingly unoriginal and I've never gotten over it. He was objectively right? And Alina says he's a monster because he's killed people, then she kills him? I THOUGHT MURDER WAS BAD, ALINA??? She wouldn't kill the literal rapist king but she'd kill the one person fighting for the rights of Grisha. It just doesn't make sense.

Honestly the root of the problem comes from Bardugo who used the evils of persecution and genocide for her books but labeled the violence to end them as "bad".

Anyone can have their own opinion for this but I don't think there is another way to change such things but using brute violence. People that hate your race will not calmly listen to your pleas and reason.

King Alexander got the better end in comparison to the Darkling and that is infuriating, true. There was hypocrisy in the way Nikolai dealt with his stepfather but, hey! He felt bad about it so we're supposed to root for him since he didn't show plain apathy. 🤷‍♀️

[scentedmiracleobject]

Ayoooo

Team green:

Not greens bringing HoTD discourse into another fandom smfh

As a darklina fans who goes into darklina tag looking for my folks and their works, I'm not supposed to be discussing Rhenyra and her siblings here but here we are now ig.

Personality traits in ones favorite characters in one fandom are not interchangeable with other characters in another fandom lmao

Just because we like the Darkling in S&B doesn't mean we have to like characters that are similar to him in every universe that ever existed, it doesn't work like that.

Comparing the Darkling to Aemond and Aegon is fucking crazy and unfair: you are literally comparing a man who is part of a persecuted minority who lived hundreds of years through fear and hatred, who fought tooth and nails for his position; to two royalty brats who had things served to them on a golden plate since they came out of Alicent's veve

TB calling out Aemond and Aegon 's bs is nothing but a call for your own hypocrisy because TB were not the ones complaining about the lack of 21th century morals in an imaginary setting that is supposed to be medieval-ish. No, that's u.

I don't know what is but it seems that TG stans seems to dish things they can't take. You complain about things TB did as if your favorites didn't do the same thing.

Grow up pls

Your take on darklinas is 100% correct. Saw so many darklinas in team black stans and they were shitting on Aegon and Aemond. How can someone like Darkling if they like Rhaenyra as if Darkling wasn't far worse for girls than Aegon. Yes they type whole big paragraph about Daemon did nothing wrong and he never groomed anyone. I am not fan of alysmond but I assure you I don't find them more problematic than Daemyra, Rhaenicent. They said Aemond killed Alys's entire family but I don't think she ever gave fuck about her family.

Iol😂 Ik that btw n firstly let me tell u that in book Alys didn't give a single shit about whatever family that was.That wasn't even her family !

That was house strong who was keeping her only as wet nurse servant just bcz she was a strong bastard herself if talk about book only. She wasn't any princess there😭. Wtf TB Stans think while making these bullshits which wasn't in the book. Atleast should make something sensible.

I already told that dere relationship was not any romantic which some Alysmond Stans want it to be. It was just kind of toxic profit n gain relationship bet them. But she was only with Aemond for her profit n survival. She clearly gets pregnant with his child. Most logical reason is only that she would also hold the power in throne. That's it.

Alys was a witch who killed a man just in secs...do u really think that she would make herself as a crying hostage to a 18 yrs old boy😭. She would have killed Aemond easily if she wanted to right there while slaughtering whole house strong but she didn't bcz she would easily get profit from removing every other man from her strong family. Whole wealth indirectly goes to her or larys.

TB be saying anything rubbish as we don't even get much about her in book. She was neither team Black or team green. Now what tv series would do about her ? I can't say that......but Ofcourse they would say thousand non sense reasons on daemon which even GRRM would die on hearing.😹

N about Darklina stans🤦🏻‍♀️...they r really stupid. Their whole ship is extremely problematic. Even alysmond or every ship from hotd itself is less problematic than darklina honestly 😂.

Darkling literally abused n harmed Alina physically and he gave small girls to get r*ped by King for his own need🤢

n the audacity those idiots have to say anything about any ship way less problematic than them. It's funny when Darkling Stans would say they like Rhaenyra. Even Aegon was less harmful than him like bitch.. be fr😂which drug u guys r taking

I don't hate or not any anti Darklina. I don't even like that book. It's so fucking boring😭.Ship is very much ok. Like you can ship the fuck u want. I used to ship it too but if u r liking a problematic ship urself then u should better keep ur mouth shut about any other ships. They are embarrassing sometimes

(Believe me only thing I shipped it because they have that light and dark dynamic, if it wasn't about that. I would have never shipped them either. Plus Ben Barnes was the reason I went to watch that show 😑)

As I said they can't even like their favourites as they are🤷🏻‍♀️ so don't take them seriously. I am waiting for that clown show when they are going to say Daeron is a r@pist while writing big stupid paragraphs on ' how Maegor was correct'. U can see that very soon.

[kasmie]

✱ PAIRING: eren yeager x reader ✱ WORDCOUNT: approx. 640. ✱ EXCERPT: the fervor & love of devoted parents knows no boundary ✱ SYNOPSIS: the current king is bed-ridden & a violent tyrant is set to be crowned sovereign. rebels conspire to make sure he never makes it to the crown. our y/n tries to lead a quite life after the fall of her family, but a chance encounter with eren yeager resurfaces repressed feelings & memories. the encounter was all but accidental. a long forgotten prophecy, buried by the current king, states that the true king holds the power to command others at their will & the tyrant will do everything in his power to stop said person from sitting on the throne.

war crowns and roses masterlist.

taglist: @xngelsau @faerie-soirxx @longestline @blaxcunicorn @tojiswifeforlife @bewbingz

        The trio sat under the glowing candlelit in Porter’s Tavern. Absolute silence would’ve surrounded them had it not been for the constant hammering of raindrops on the window. Daylight had not yet broken through thick blanketed clouds, as heavy downpour enveloped the Capital. An unspeakable danger loomed above their heads, leaving the two men and singular woman frozen, silent. They did not speak not because they were afraid of someone overhearing, but because they were aware of the grave danger looming. As most of the city would not wake from their slumber for another hour or so; not a soul would bother them, there would be no one to eavesdrop, no one to tell the tale of this clandestine meeting. This worked in their favor.

        Clothes drenched, from the unforgiving Ironworks weather, the woman’s hands clung to the mug perched on the wooden table for warmth. She could feel her husband trembling at her side. With a swift movement, her hands released the mug and cupped her husband’s shaky hands, her lips placed a gentle kiss upon his temple.

        Grisha Yeager was the first to speak. “We need to make the arrangements.” His hands worked his handkerchief in circles, wiping away droplets from his eyeglasses. Once he was satisfied, he placed the frame of his glasses atop the bridge of his nose. His gray eyes set themselves upon the gaze of the woman, Lady Hemlock, paying no attention to Lord Hemlock. “Anya,” he said firmly. “The king is aware.”

        Anya Hemlock found herself instinctively touching her rosary. His gaze was unwavering, as if holding her line of sight hostage. They would have no more time. It had to be done now. The realization sent her heart fluttering against her ribcage, a frenzied dance tearing away in her chest. She closed her eyes and drew a slow breath. “Our daughter, Y/N,” she began, “promise me she will be safe. I need your word.”

        Grisha nodded.

        “Would it not be wiser to spread the word?” Lord Hemlock’s voice finally graced the conversation. The room’s attention shifted toward him.

        “Do you doubt our cause, Magnus?” Grisha asked, voice laced with the faintest hint of irritation.

        “Of course not,” Magnus bellowed. “We are true believers! My wife and I have dedicated our lives to our work, as much as you have—”

        “—As a true believer, you would do well to think about the repercussions of acting mindlessly. King Augustine would sooner hang thousands of innocents than relinquish his claim to the throne. The smallest sign of treason will lead to the undeserved death of our people. Of our children!”

        “You are mad to question my devotion!”

        Anya watched as the men of the group all but tore into each other with words, her patience at their use of tone growing thinner as the seconds passed. Finally, she straightened in her seat, taking one deep breath before cutting their argument short. “Gentlemen please,” she said, her voice settled, “now is not the time for discourse amongst ourselves.”

        Both men quieted themselves at her plea, the heat of the moment disappearing as silence enveloped the trio once more.

        “We will make the proper arrangements. It will be up to the children when the time is right.” Anya’s fingers traced the crucifix on her rosary. “May his reign be true,” she whispered, with a nod toward Grisha.

        Her dull eyes stared out the window, gaze watching raindrops make contact with the glass, the blurry curtain obscuring the view outside of Porter’s Tavern. Their unique plight would not allow her the comfort of watching her daughter blossom into a respectable young woman as she always dreamed. She would not be present to guide her daughter’s decisions, nor ease her worries, but that no longer mattered. In her mind, she recited the prophecy, as she knew it, and it calmed the unsettling feeling brewing within her.

        Borrowed time was all they possessed now. The strings of the past, and the future, no longer belonged to them.

[goblins-riddles-or-frocks]

feel free to delete this ask if you think that's too discourse-y, but i always remain aghast in seeing how a part of the grisha fandom is genuinely convinced that LB is somewhat 'misandrist' in her writing because uh, zoya and alina have some rightful complaint about the darkling? they genuinely think that the darkling is a victim of LB's misandry rugh4uthg4tuh249thu2498thu2490 deep unserious fandom

Is that actually a word they unironically use??? Fucking embarrassing

There’s just such intense refusal to engage with the story she was trying to tell! And it’s just not a complicated one at all

I see a lot of people talking about how she was basically required to write him as a hero because of #oppression. When the entire point is that he’s leveraged an actual problem to make himself powerful! At the beginning of the story, he sits at the center of patriarchal power, has for literal centuries, and has proven that he’s pretty okay with that lmao

Freedom fighting where!!

[lilisouless]

I have read the Grisha Trilogy and seen the show, obviously, and always liked the idea of Alina being single.

But you seem to like Malina. Could you please give insight as to why?

Hi, i don’t have a problem with single Alina as an opinion , I mean it’s probably someone who cares about Alina herself so it’s nothing to dislike. I get there are fandom discourse about leaving a woman single with intentions of just getting rid of her from a ship or (in a lot of cases of female characters of color) because they have problem with them being in a romantic relationship because they can’t wrap their mind around it for a benevolent racism. Neither seems to be the case of Alina so single Alina is cool ,as long as there’s no Mal hate or at the very least is not an hypocritical view of him in comparison of other male characters.

Now your question first: everyone told me Mal was an abuser who forced Alina to give up her powers. So,that’s gonna be a bias, i certainly don’t know if my enjoyment would have been different without that. For the record, since Shadow and Bone i quickly called bullshit on it because even at his worst he certainly didn’t seem like he would do something like that.

Why I like them? They have some of the most romantic scenes in the whole series, to me it’s the kiss on the cell and when Mal saves her from the debris. It’s not the most complex development and has it issues but it’s very undoubtedly that they loved each other so for me was pretty simple: If Alina loves him and he loves her, then that’s good enough for a happy ending.

The first two books pretty much end up in that ,they might fight and have disagreements but they will shallow their pride for the sake of the other, and that their love for each other is stronger than their flaws. By R&R I’d say they have started to understand each other: For Alina, Mal,the guy who fit everywhere he went,actually never felt he belonged anywhere, she was her only real friend. Mal oth realizes that Alina,the girl who always made him happy, always felt insecure and down, they realize they took each other for granted (him more than her,to be fair) and Mal specially are trying to make up for it, finding out that,after all,they were actually the only person that understood each other; they have pretty much given up on their identity, Mal embraced a fate of being a martyr for Alina and she embracing being a matyr for Ravka , so their false death gave them a shot to be another person, a sacrifice that was both of their powers but allow them to be themselves (ironically taking in count they are having fake identities)

To add, they don’t have what happens with other fictional couples when you wonder “what does this people do when they are not whining about not being able to be together” because their relationship is shown as stablished and have some banther, both are kind of dorky that think the other is cool , they have fun together and are pretty unashamedly loving with each other

So, i don’t want to make a long post,so that’s the short answer, I don’t think there’s anything bad with wanting Alina to be single but there’s nothing bad or narrative betraying with her ending up with Mal either

[rist-ix]

The sparxshipping teasing from Iginio got me wondering.... if we ever did get canon sparxshipping explored, whether in a reboot or new adaptation, how would you like it for it to be done?

I'm gonna try to answer both of these in one post cause they overlap a little, but first of all thank you!

Buckle up fellas I'm bringing discourse.

This is gonna be a bit of an unpopular opinion I think, and it’s that I don’t want sparxshipping to be canon at all.

Feel free to get the pitchforks, but until then imma talk. I have villainships that I think not only add something to the overall plot, they kind of define it too. Reylo for examples, with its themes of redemption, masks and compassion, or Darklina and how important their relationship is to the war and Grisha oppression, or Lotor and Allura with its symbolism of breaking the cycle of abuse, making peace, reclaiming a heritage thought lost and so on.

To put it very briskly: an established Sparxshipping relationship adds nothing to the plot. It would have to be a plot of its own, and while there are tons of fascinating plot threads you could weave back into Domino, Bloom's family and the war before the Fall, it is simply, plainly, and rightfully so not the story Winx Club is telling.

Winx Club, at its core, is about the girls and their friendship. That is the show I love, and that is the show I am invested in. Fanfiction is a separate thing, I’ll get into that later. But canon, commercially produced and globally aired Winx Club is what we are talking about now. And the one defining truth of Winx Club is that it’s about the Winx. Their boyfriends are the side note, the Kens to their Barbies, to cement them as the cool popular teenagers younger kids are supposed to see them as. If Bloom and Valtor had a lasting serious relationship, Valtor would inevitably have to be shoved into that category as well, and that would ruin the entire appeal of him.

To boil it down even more: if sparxshipping were canon, either Winx Club would have to shift away from its intrinsic premise and formula, or Valtor would have to be diminished beyond recognition. So my longstanding opinion has always been: don’t make sparxshipping canon. Just don’t.

What I, personally, would do if I were ever to gain access to the mythical and likely overcrowded writing room at Rainbow SpA, is this:

Tease the fuck out of it.

Lean into their fucked up little hate-obsession. Every time they share the screen they have to be radiating unresolved sexual tension. Their chemistry has to be so off-the-charts it sparks a million fanfics before the season even ends. If there aren’t so many crappy amv's set to angsty Taylor swift songs it brings down the YouTube servers by midnight you have failed. Because canon is bound to certain limits, but fanfiction is NOT. The goal of any show should be to create something that will awaken an inescapable need to build on it, to continue where it left off, or to wonder but-what-if? To make people text incoherent keysmashes to their fandom buddies with shaky hands in the middle of the night and be unable to sleep until they’ve confirmed their buddy has seen it too.

I would want to see Bloom go fully I-have-lost-sight-of-everything-but-revenge until her friends manage to pull her back, I would want them to fight so vehemently the structures around them collapse and they don’t even notice. They should be in situations where they are UNDENIABLY going to die if they fight on and they still do it, they literally CANNOT stop, they don’t care to. To the point that everyone around them is seriously concerned and talking about their terrifying obsession with each other, more or less out in the open. And after a season full of epic fight scenes, high stake conflicts and frankly obscene tension between them, I would want Bloom to kill him.

Straight up.

Give her that moment of calm self assurance, at peace and perfectly in control, while Valtor tries to gaslight-gatekeep-girlboss his way out of this, contrasting the way her support network and genuine, unconditional friendships strengthen her while Valtor, who is always sabotaging everyone around him, is forced to confront his own powerlessness in the face of the power that created him. His manipulation attempts have nothing to latch on to. They have one last exchange where Valtor is visibly furious at her denial of him / his own failure — to really drive home that this is Bloom's triumph — but the last words they exchange are cordial. Maybe a comment at her growth, or a warning about his mothers, or another way to foreshadow future threats — if he couldn’t defeat her, no one should. He ends on a high note, but he does end, and it’s at Bloom's hands. She retakes the corrupted spark into the Flame she is guarding, and that is that.

And then, and this is important. He fucking haunts her for the entire next story arc. The next season, the next two seasons maybe, because she has learned a fuck ton of things from him and it is really, really difficult to move on knowing everything she does, knowing everything he implied or hinted at, or simply knowing so many really, really cruel ways to get her way now, which isn’t who she wants to be, but it would be easy, quick and effective for the greater good, right?

Boom, character conflict for the next season established, lots of potential for future flashbacks or visions, Valtor stays on his high horse of forever-the-juiciest-fucking-villain-of-the-franchise and the story can move on.

The End

Cue three decades of mind-blowing fanfiction. We all say Thank you Rainbow and cry ourselves to sleep thinking about what could have been.

[malkaleh]

Tell People About Your WIPs

I kind of came up with this one myself + was inspired by others but: make a list of all your WIPs with a brief description of each and then people can ask you questions about them and then tag other people.

So uh, mine are below.

I am tagging: @miabicicletta @onekisstotakewithme @unseenacademic @emilykaldwen @naurielrochnur @doomhamster @dr-dendritic-trees @sarking @bessemerprocess @nocompromise-noregrets and anyone who wants to do it.

The Big Active Ones

Crown Of Ashes: What if you get everything you think you wanted and it Fucking Sucks Actually.

Rewrite The Stars 2.0: What if hot Thomas Cromwell and a bi triad marriage caused the kindest possible world.

Grishaverse Hunger Games: Darkling going to Darkling. Unfortunately for everyone around him. The Grisha-Crows-Nikolai poly found family is extremely real.

Tortall Found Family: Jon of Conte is a man stealing two faced skank says Emperor Ozorne.

The Ones That Are OT3 Verse Ideas

Dance Rehearsal Content:

Unmasked Part I and II fandom reactions

Norwich Fandom Discourse

Tudor Ships + Taylor Swift

English Civil War: AU edition

Some things that will be going into the OT3 verse main story rewrites eventually

Helen Norwich

Robert proposes to Elizabeth

John and Jane Dudley

Gregory Cromwell has some feelings

hot Thomas Boleyn rights

Misc

Tristan Staghorn deserves this workplace frankly

Multifandom Sex Slave AU (aka ‘that is yours, I am not’)

President Joanna Bartlet and her wife Abbey

Robert Dudley Travels Back In Time

TWW Ballet AU

Persian Jewish Sara Crewe

Race Bent LOTR graphics

Jed/Abbey/Leo OT3 where the “scandal” is their relationship being found out rather than the MS

the oh god we are actually dating Leo/John Marbury that might end in an OT4 with Jed and Abbey.

District One in the Hunger Games as inspired by @lorata world building.

Vulcan!Amanda and Human!Sarek

Mirror Verse Girl Saves Boy

[stromuprisahat]

Do you think there's discourse among the grisha

Like the younger Grisha fight over the words bloodletter and witch and if Grisha is outdated/a slur and we really should be using odarannye

Meanwhile Ivan is off somewhere to the side like 'I cannot WAIT until you lot go off to the front, let's see if you're still worrying about fuckin WORDS while dodging Fjerdan FUCKIN axes'

Absolutely!

If not in general, officer brats definitely do shit like that. I mean:

The servants sprang forward to pull our chairs out and clear the dishes. I doubted I’d ever get used to being waited on this way. “Ne brinite,” Marie said with a giggle. “What?” I asked, baffled. “To e biti zabavno.” Nadia giggled. “She said, ‘Don’t worry. It will be fun.’ It’s Suli dialect. Marie and I are studying it in case we get sent west.” “Ah,” I said. “Shi si yuyan Suli,” said Sergei as he strode past us out of the domed hall. “That’s Shu for ‘Suli is a dead language.’” Marie scowled and Nadia bit her lip. “Sergei is studying Shu,” whispered Nadia. “I got that,” I replied. Marie spent the entire walk to the stables complaining about Sergei and the other Corporalki and debating the merits of Suli over Shu. Suli was best for missions in the northwest. Shu meant you’d be stuck translating diplomatic papers. Sergei was an idiot who was better off learning to trade in Kerch. She took a brief break to point out the banya ... then launched immediately into a rant about selfish Corporalki overrunning the baths every night.

Shadow and Bone- Chapter 9

While Alina isn't the most reliable narrator, she might be onto something, when she has her super powerful re-organisation speech:

“The Darkling has changed. If we have any hope of beating him, we need to change, too. Two Grisha from each Order,” I repeated. “And the Orders will no longer sit separately. You’ll sit together, eat together, and fight together.” At least I’d gotten them to shut up. They just stood there, gaping. ... “But … but it’s always been this way,” sputtered Sergei. “You can’t just overturn hundreds of years of tradition,” protested the Inferni. “Are we really going to argue about this, too?” I asked irritably. “We’re at war with an ancient power beyond reckoning, and you want to squabble over who sits next to you at lunch?” “That’s not the point,” said Zoya. “There’s an order to things, a way of doing them that—” They all started gabbling again—about tradition, about the way things were done, about the need for structure and people knowing their places. I set the cover back down on the dish with a loud clang. “This is the way we’re doing it,” I said, rapidly losing patience. “No more Corporalki snobbery. No more Etherealki cliques. And no more herring.”

Siege and Storm- Chapter 14*

But then looking at this, they seem to be more likely screaming about Grisha being traditional name, oddarenye innovatory bullshit and zowa foreign nonsense.

It's like watching US movie about those university fraternities. Wording and notions are the same. Traditions, order of things, enmity between "different" groups and spiteful actions. Pretty sure we could extrapolate a little and add creepy/humiliating/kinky initiation rituals etc.

Ivan's totally right. They truly need some hardcore reality vibe check.

_____

* I'll get into the S&S quote deeper, once I'll get to that chapter, because OHMYFUCKINGGODS, Aleksander "Eat, drink, dress the same like my subordinates" would surely tolerate such behaviour in his own ranks.

[thesilverlady]

(a bit of rant) the Hypocrisy is truly the only thing that destroyed my enjoyment of hotd/f&b people take the whole team thing waaay to seriously as if we're rooting for footballs teams and not an interesting story that could be analyzed and interpret in many ways . not to talk about the moral police who attack you for enjoying problematic characters\ships but also go in their way to enjoy other problematic characters\ships. like the asoiaf fandom was become waaay worse than it used to be after GOT s7\s8 for some reason

I completely get it and I'm sorry they sucked the enjoyment out of you.

I'll admit I used to get frustrated over some people who would say "it's just color wars" or "they all suck so pick a fav criminal and move on" 'cause in my mind that meant they didn't understand or appreciate the story told from the book but after taking some time offline and touching some grass, I came to the conclusion that while I can't and shouldn't push my interpretations onto others I also don't have to put up with terrible takes I see.

I'll admit the fandom has become an extremely unwelcoming space: side 1: are the book purists who while I 100% can sympathize with wanting a faithful adaptation, I've often see them treating others like shit over crackships and toxic pairs, as if the entirely of asoiaf isn't built on that. The truth is they don't really care about "problematism" they just hate seeing a character they like being (what they consider to be) misinterpreted by others in fan content like fics, headcanon and arts etc.

Again I sympathize because I used to feel the same for another fandom (the grisha trilogy) but holding onto these feelings can only make you feel miserable. The two healthy solutions I've found are: either move on or create content you want to see - because I guarantee there will be others who want to see the same thing you do

side 2: show viewers who don't care about the book (which is valid. you can't force someone to read or becoming invested in the lore) but will also lose their mind over canon discussions because it doesn't match up with the version that exist in the showverse so that leads them to interpret the rest of the fandom as whining and lacking joy because "it's not that deep" and "why can't you just enjoy this"

side 3: is a mixed of both, which i consider the worst bunch because there's no victory with them. You show too much love for the book? Then you automatically hate the cast and you're -ist -obic. You love the show? Have you written 10 think pieces a day and support what is commonly accepted for the characters by the fandom? Because if you haven't you're a fake. You like a single green character despite not supporting their side of the war? You're obviously a misogynist. You ship non-canon ships? you're deranged. You ship canon ships? you're problematic and an apologist.

See?

the way I've come to treat asoiaf as a whole (including f&b/hotd side) is how I treat the star wars fandom (which consists of a similiar toxic fanbase):

a) don't. enter. discourses.

you'll never change anyone's mind and they'll never change yours. Only enter an argument if the person gives normal sanity vibes or is a friend and won't have a problem if you two have different opinions on something

b) treat it as a solo thing.

The way I view this account is basically. I throw a ball at a wall and maybe someone will hear the noise and come play with me. Can it lonely? Sure. But it pays off when someone sees the earning signs I've left on this account and still decides to interact on their own

c) Be the person you want to interact with

This one can be hard because emotions always have a way to get in the way, but try to be someone you'd want to hang out in a fandom. In the past, I've gotten asks that say even though they don't agree with some of my interpretations about the characters they feel welcome here in regards of "teams". That's something I've been aiming for myself.

Anyways as to recent fandoms have become a bit of a nightmare with hypocrisy obsessive need for censorship and morality lessons as well as the quest of ending "romanticization" of anything, it has become a struggle for many. Try to combat it if you're willing because there are definitely other people other there who feel exactly the way you do.

Otherwise, a pause for personal space and to take care of yourself is never bad. In the end, I hope you can re-find some enjoyment for this fandom and if you ever need to vent more about it my asks & dms are open and judgement-free ♥

[omegawizardposting]

as someone whos read AOT from beginning to finish, i'm genuinely excited to see you keep posting about it. its hard for me to not spoil things because i like spoilers (keeps me engaged/looking forward to things, just because i know X doesn't mean I know what led up to it) anyways. youre in for a ride!! keep reading, imo its worth it. at least you understand that marley's in the wrong for oppressing eldians, apparently there was discourse that isayama was "pro nazi" when this part of the manga first came out, though its glaringly obvious the marleyans are the problem...

I remember that discourse. So far, it does seem like Isayama is portraying Marleyans as the root of the problem, which I can get behind. People may have been a bit wary because he seems to have worked hard to humanize the enemy, but it's important to keep in mind that the Eldians who are working for Marley have been utterly brainwashed. You see this in real life, too; like I said, "good" gays, "good" PoC, etc. People who think that they can escape their oppression if only they prove to their oppressors that they're "one of the good ones". You're definitely meant to sympathize with the other Titans and Gabi & co., but you aren't necessarily meant to root for them against Eren & co. At least, that's not the vibe I'm getting at this moment in time.

One criticism I do have is that, so far, it seems like he's sticking with the "Titans did a bad thing which led to their oppression" story line as fact. Oppressed people aren't oppressed because we committed war crimes in the past. We're oppressed because our oppressors seek power over others, or because of unfounded fear and hatred, or because our lands sit on natural resources larger countries desire, or because we look different, talk different, come from different places. Personally, I would like to see the story instead prove the Marleyan version of history wrong. I would like for Grisha's version of history to be the truth, because it doesn't paint an oppressed people as having something to atone for, which simply isn't rooted in reality and sends a bad message, especially since, whether intentional or not, Eldians share similarities with Jewish people.

Jewish people are one of the single most oppressed demographics on this planet. They have faced thousands of years of repeated oppression by just about every country they have lived or currently live in. Saying to your audience, "Hey, my oppressed group who shares similarities with Jewish people actually did kill and rape and oppress the people who are now oppressing them," isn't a good look.

However, I don't think Isayama did it to send any kind of message. I think he's a Japanese man who may not be as familiar with this kind of negative trope as westerners are. Ultimately, he's telling a fantasy story that borrows from the real world, but is not meant to be the real world, and a lot of writers fall into the very same pit trap he seems to have fallen into. They want moral ambiguity, and the quickest way to achieve that is to make it so that both sides in a conflict have done bad things.

So while I don't think there was any hateful intent behind the choice he made, I do hope that he ultimately unmakes that choice by supporting Grisha's version of history. We shall see.

[serpenteve]

why we ship darklina

an essay literally no one asked for

Nobody needs a "reason" to ship Darklina. But considering this is a villain x hero pairing, it got me thinking about why we shipped it in the first place when the narrative and author so badly wanted us to root for the more sensible alternative pairing and why it became the most popular ship of the entire trilogy.

Personally, I find it really interesting (and low-key hilarious) that a lot of the reasons shippers gravitated towards Darklina can be directly traced back to how badly Bardugo bungled Alina's character arc, Mal's entire characterization and narrative role, Nikolai's wasted potential as an alternative love interest, and the noble intentions she gives the the Darkling.

Alina's Character Arc

Alina's character arc doesn't match who she is as a character. I've written more about that in this post, but a lot of readers were introduced to a passive and insecure protagonist who we were expecting to undergo a typical YA coming-of-age character arc where Alina acquires self-acceptance, confidence, and embraces the full breadth of her powers over the course of the trilogy. Instead, Bardugo gave Alina the kind of character arc that's usually deserved for power-hungry anti-heroines or tragic heroes with a fatal flaw to punish.

The plot offers a strange binary: either Alina suppresses and hides her powers and therefore stays away from descending into villainy OR Alina attempts to find Morozova's amplifiers in order to defeat the Darkling but then becomes corrupted by power in the process. Alina's journey to self-acceptance and exploring her own powers are unfortunately entangled with her relationship with the Darkling. The only way she is allowed to move forward through the plot is to succumb to the corrupting influence of the amplifiers.

For better or for worse, the first character to really embrace her powers instead of thinking she's a fraud or that she's weak or that she's an unholy abomination is the Darkling. He's the first person to recognize her power for what it is and accurately judge its potential and implications for the rest of the world. He advocates for her in front of the royal court, in front other Grisha who think she's weak, and even against Baghra who is initially a very ill-tempered mentor with little to no faith in Alina's abilities. He even rather ironically advocates for her even when the heroic person who's supposed to be supporting her (Mal) does not.

At the start of her journey, Alina is insecure and in constant need of assurance and validation. The Darkling's role as her mentor and guide into this unfamiliar world of Grisha makes him the perfect advocate not only for her powers but also to help Alina see her place in the world. However, once he is revealed to be the villain, Alina also fails to realize that it's time for her to advocate for herself and throws the baby out with the bathwater.

Mal's Characterization & Narrative Role

When Alina loses the Darkling as an advocate in S&B, Mal steps up to take this role. Alina is still rather passive for the majority of the first book and it's Mal who originally wants her to have Morozova's stag as an amplifier if it will mean being able to stand against the Darkling. Bardugo intended for him to be a heroic love interest as a foil to the villainous love interest and I believe she mostly succeeds for the first book.

However, because this is a story about punishing Alina's "evil ambition" (despite there being very little evidence of that) Mal is supposed to serve as a voice of reason in the narrative. Once Alina considers the necessity of acquiring more amplifiers to defeat the Darkling, it is Mal's role to warn her of the potential consequences, to remind her of her inner humanity, and to ward against the corrupting influence of Morozova's amplifiers. Mal's declarations that he wants back the old girl he knew without any power is meant to drive an ideological wedge between them, yes, but he's also meant to be Correct™ because, again, Bardugo is writing a story about a corrupted power-hungry heroine who goes too far and needs to be punished rather than the arc we were all expecting and the one that Alina's character needs: a coming-of-age story of self-acceptance and personal growth.

Some point after the backlash of Siege & Storm, Bardugo seems to have become aware of her mistake and attempts to scrub Mal's character to be more sympathetic. There is a bizarre exchange half-way through the third book when Mal finally declares:

"I wasn't afraid of you, Alina. I was afraid of losing you. The girl you were becoming didn't need me anymore, but she's who you were always meant to be."

This is an interesting line because it's a complete reversal of Mal's narrative role so far. He's supposed to be her voice of reason that opposes her at every turn but readers interpreted him as being resentful of Alina's powers and angry that she was no longer dependent on him. Bardugo is forced to retcon Mal's entire role in the narrative from being a voice of reason that opposes Alina's quest for power to a supportive friend who will fight by her side. But this was never her initial intention and I believe this change was brought on 100% by audience reaction because she failed to understand the arc her heroine needed and the kind of story her audience was anticipating for such a character.

Needless to say, having your heroine's main love interest actively resent her quest for power until half-way through the third damn book did not endear many readers to Mal. Because Bardugo failed to understand the kind of character development her heroine needed and failed to understand audience expectations, we hated Mal. He became the embodiment of every toxic chauvinist we'd ever met who can't stand the idea of his partner's success and feels entitled to be the center of her universe. He was not the voice of reason. He was an annoying gnat hellbent on dragging the heroine down and away from her destiny. We did not want to root for him. Even the villain was more sympathetic than him because he could bring her closer to achieving the self-acceptance the narrative was obsessed with denying her.

Nikolai's Wasted Potential as a Solid Love Interest

Nikolai plays several roles in Alina's journey but most importantly in our discussions for why we ended up shipping Darklina, his entire potential as a serious love interest is wasted.

When we meet Nikolai, we have hitched our wagons to the Darklina train because despite being the villain, the Darkling is the only one who will allow the heroine to accept her powers and come into her own. Her heroic love interest, Mal, is actively sabotaging her efforts and holding her back from her true potential. But then, in swoops Nikolai and we pause, wondering if there may be a better heroic alternative after all?

In a lot of ways, Nikolai and the Darkling alike: they are eager for Alina's power and see her as a solution to all their problems. They may want to use Alina to prop up their own agendas, but unlike Mal, Alina's summoning powers are a massive plus, not a burden. Nikolai is the heroic alternative to our villainous Aleksander. So we wait, wondering if Nikolai will be the one to fix this mess of a romantic subplot. His royal connections offer an easy path to upwards mobility for our heroine and we sense that an alliance between them (even if it's initially political in nature) may bring our heroine closer to obtaining more power, influence, and self-acceptance not only for herself, but also for the oppressed minority she is a part of.

But, again, Bardugo is still obsessed with that "punish the heroine for wanting power" agenda so while Nikolai exists as another mentor figure who offers Alina advice on how to rule, how to appeal to other people, how to charm, how to win people over, and Alina learns and applies much of what she learns from him, he is not treated as a real love interest.

Despite Nikolai being written as a fairy tale prince (handsome, charming, smart as a whip, brave in battle, etc) Alina never actually considers him romantically. They are friends and allies at best and the only time she considers kissing him is only when she's pissed about Mal.

Nikolai's proposal at the end of Ruin & Rising feels like one last saving grace, one last opportunity for our heroine to take control of her life and make a dramatic change to break from the past. But this too is rejected because Alina's arc will never let her access any power. She does not reject Nikolai because she wants to marry for love. She rejects him because she has been "punished" for wanting power and has internalized that she must not seek any more power for fear of angering the plot gods (and Bardugo). She must return to being nobody in order to remain a good and moral person.

(And, of course, we resent Mal even more because who in their right mind would choose him over Nikolai? Once again, he becomes a roadblock on our heroine's journey to power. We grow irritated that the heroine is failing to grasp an opportunity to elevate herself. We throw the book against the wall. Why are we even following this heroine?)

The Darkling's Motivations

Still, all of the above might still not have been enough to pull the reader to the villain's side. But the Darkling is the living embodiment of Villain Has A Point™. He is not pure unadulterated evil. He is not Lord Sauron or Voldemort or the Terminator.

He's more Magneto, Roy Batty, or Ozymandias---a man who is part of an oppressed minority who longs for justice and power but is absolutely unhinged in his methods.

Alina runs away because she does not want to be a non-consenting weapon in hands. But we always end up wondering what would have happened had Baghra not warned her. What would have happened if Alina gladly joined the Darkling's side? There's hundreds of fanfics written precisely about this situation because despite the villainy of his methods, we wonder if Ravka might not have been safer after all?

If the Darkling had used the Fold as a weapon against Fjerda and Shu Han, would any of the problems Ravka faces in the later books even exist? Would any Grisha fall victim to the khergud programs or be killed as witches? The Darkling wipes out Novokribirsk and kills hundreds of lives, but how many would he have saved with the Fold as Ravka's greatest shield and sword? 🤷🏽‍♀️

And therein lies the problem with the trilogy inconsistent moral landscape. The Darkling is an anti-villain that exists in a narrative that is very black and white, unlike the rest of the books in the Grishaverse where our protagonists are anti-heroes who kill, steal, and torture their way through the plot with nary a judgmental glance from the narrative. We long to see our heroine give in to her dark side and get her hands dirty because watching a naive, passive, scared little girl grow into a ruthless powerful Grisha would have made for a hell of a compelling story.

But that's not the story Bardugo wanted to tell.

The Greg Trilogy

Despite taking place in a fantasy Tsartist setting, the Grisha trilogy is oddly anti-Grisha. The narrative doesn't spend much time trying to examine the context or implications of an oppressed minority group fighting for power other than to say "magic powers = evil". Nikolai skates by on a throne of inherited wealth, privilege, and imperialism but it's okay because he's charming and witty and the only monstrous part of him is the Darkling's curse. Literally everything is worse for Ravka and their Grisha after the destruction of the Fold but Ravka must move forward into a new age without relying on Grisha power but putting their efforts into new muggle technologies. Alina must be stripped of her powers and returned to her "old self" in order to be purged of evil.

Basically, it's all one gigantic ✨ dumpster fire ✨ of mismatched character arcs, incompatible moral aesops, inconsistent characterizations, wasted potential, unexamined plot points but it's a a dumpster fire we lovingly and spitefully embrace in fanfic.

We don't ship Alina with the Darkling because we're stupid abuse apologists who somehow missed the giant flashing moral aesop of the books---and honestly, who could have possibly missed them when it's shoved in the reader's face every other chapter? We ship Alina with the Darkling because the entire ship is the embodiment of wasted potential (and wasted ✨aesthetics✨ tbqh 👀). We ship Alina with the Darkling because we're sick and tired of stories where female power is demonized. We ship Alina with the Darkling because the plot gave us literally no other alternative to see our heroine succeed except to give in to her alleged villainy.

But most of all, people ship Darklina because Leigh Bardugo utterly failed in writing the story she intended to write because had she succeeded, Darklina would not be the most popular ship of the trilogy.

[ssanktalina]