#problematic ships project

[felixcosm]

Hi :( earlier u reblogged a post basically saying no ship is harmful cause it's fictional can you please explain your thought process behind reblogging that because i thought you were real cool but i hope your not actually some creep 😭 cause that opinion is so ass and lowk chronically online (I mean I am too since I use Tumblr but uhh I'm not THAT level of chronic.) but cause i remember you being cool and just a chill dude i hope you had like a valid understandable reason so uh if you could just clear things up rq cause 🦖🦖

Sure! It's very simple. All characters are made up and when you make them do things in your made up world, made up things will happen to them and cause made up consequences.

This does not affect real life.

[agalychnisspranneusroseus]

I don't even know what to call this AU, but... the one in which Amphibia times passes different from Earth time, and when they come back it's been 10 years, and the Wus are gone and Marcy ends up being fostered the Boonchuys... some more thoughts on it (original post here).

As you would expect, Marcy is the one doing worst here. She has PTSD and is working through it in therapy, but it's not easy. Anne's constant presence helps, though. Being alone with her thoughts isn't easy. When they first came back, she stayed with Anne in her room for a few months until the Boonchuys finished building another room for her (they expect her to stay for a very long time, sadly), but while having her own space was nice, nights quickly became very rough. She slipped into Anne's bed most times. Anne always made a point to always use the softest sheets these days, the ones she knew Marcy liked because they had a soothing texture.

Since Marcy and Sasha are still in middle school and Anne in highschool (their new age gap was a little weird at first but they got used to it after a few months), those two become incredibly close. Sasha could have very easily become one of the popular kids, what with her charm and beauty and cool scar with a cool fake backstory, but she'd rather hang out with the weird little nerd that likes C&C way too much. She still doesn't understand half of what Marcy says and most of it is kinda boring to her, but she tries to give it a chance and find interests in common. Gonna steal the headcanon from awiw that Sasha secretly likes anime, so they bond over that. They both try to get Anne into it now.

Likewise, Anne is sometimes questioned by her highschool friends how come she always wants to hang out with these two middle schoolers. Honestly, Anne doesn't see it as "hanging out with middle schoolers" because she doesn't really perceive much of a gap in maturity. They've all grown so much in Amphibia, and they grew together. Those two are frankly more mature than most of Anne's new classmates. Plus, the age gap isn't even that big, it's only a year and a half.

When people at school learn the Boonchuys are fostering Marcy, some start refering to her as Anne's little sister. Anne doesn't want to think about why that feels so weird and gross. It's an unexpected feeling - she and Marcy pretty much grew up together and were closer than most siblings, surely she'd be happy that people gave their bond such a huge importance, but the idea of Marcy as a sister... eeew (don't think about why, Boonchuy, just don't think about it).

New fear unlocked! Anne doubles down on her efforts to locate Marcy's parents, scared that, if they don't find them, her parents will end up adopting Marcy.

Marcy has read way too much weird manga to be phased by the implication until Anne spells it out for her, and she blushed red as a tomato. She doesn't sleep in Anne's bed that night, rolling the implications inside her head like a kaleidoscope.

Anne and Sasha are pretty shaken by the knowledge that their parents are 10 whole years older. Marcy still hasn't processed that her parents will also be 10 years older when she finds them but... one thing at a time. They make a promise to always be there for each other.

Marcy helping Anne with her high school homework. Sasha standing up to high school bullies.

Anne is so happy when those two finally get to highschool like oh god she missed them sm.

Anne and Sasha are devastated to find out all the music and boy bands they used to be into are no longer popular. Marcy is elated with how far videogames have come. Skyrim 24 year anniversary Ultra Delux Exclusive 4000k Return of the Dragonborn Special Edition looks soooo good!

Sasha's parents, in a surprising twist of events, are now friends. They get along fairly well and even take Sasha on little outings together. It feels suuuuuper weird to her but she missed them, and they clearly missed her and want to make up for lost times. It feels childish to go to the movies with her parents, but she'll accept it. It's kind of nice.

Marcy struggles a lot with being underwater, after the rejuvenation tank. Showers are fine, but baths are no-no. One very hot day of summer, though, they all go to the beach, and she tries to convince herself that it's fine, that she can get in the water, but as soon as it reaches her chest she's already scrambling to get out. She didn't want to make Anne and Sasha worry, but she just can't. Not even allowing herself to be distracted by the sight of Anne in her swimsuit helped. She's worried that she ruined a perfectly good day, but her friends quickly reassure her that she didn't. They all get cleaned and go to the mall for some ice cream instead.

Sasha hits one hell of a growth spurt two years after their return, now she has two inches on Anne, and teases her over it. That leaves Marcy like half a head shorter than them, which seems hilarious to those two for some reasons Marcy doesn't understand. Makes cuddling comfy though.

If Marcy was clingy before, she's even clingier now. She's always holding either Anne or Sasha's hand. She also becomes surprisingly affectionate with Anne's mom, after she found her crying or panicking several times. She's not scared to go for a hug whenever she's happy or excited, and they're always welcome. She's earned the privilege of being called "family", with scoldings and all. Anne's mom is very strict on "no gaming in the kitchen", and if she ever catches Marcy with her console while cooking, she'll take it away for the rest of the day. It's annoying, but for Marcy, it's oddly heartwarming to have an adult pay so much attention to you.

After they all came back, Anne's parents told her that, as the "oldest one" (yikes. It still sounds so weird), she had to be responsible for Marcy "as if she were her younger sister" (yikes yikes yikes yikes) and look out for her. She has no problem with the "looking out" part. It's what she's always done. But, seeing how poorly Marcy is doing during their first year back on Earth, she might exaggerate a little with the "responsability" bit, choosing to deal with a lot of things alone rather than burdering Marcy with them (or Sasha, who's now supposedly "younger" too). She's doing pretty well for some time, until one day she caves, and knocks on Marcy's door, teary-eyed, asking if she'd like to have an improptu sleepover. They watch a few movies, eat some snacks, play board games, read cringy wattpad stories to each other, gaze lovingly into each other's eyes while listening to romantic music, in a very no homo way. Anne curls into Marcy's chest and falls asleep like that. Maybe it IS better that her parents think they're more like sisters. They wouldn't be allowed to have sleepovers like this if they didn't.

[lulu2992]

[project-sekai-takes]

Uhmm....this is more of a question to see other people opinion on it

Is it okay to ship any of the OCs with the VS like ichimiku. I wanna know if its actually okay or not /genq

In case this question a rule breaker you can skip this one admin. sorry if this a weird one 😓

it's not a rule breaker, but i will admit it's not a take. honestly, not the right blog for it but I'll leave it here

[bluerosety-blog]

Saw this on my feed and when I tried opening their tweet (Nicholas one) I can't find it lol. Anyways, antis feeding this person's ego is weird, but since antis are being loud, I'm expecting something good happening today! 🙏🤔😁

[problematic-rwby-shipping-poll]

I/NCEST BRACKET - ROUND ONE: MOTHER SNOWS BEST VS DADDY'S PROJECT

Propaganda is below the cut.

MOTHER SNOWS BEST

“There is so little momson potential in this show but boy do these two make up for it—the depressed, neglectful, alcoholic mother x the son trying so hard to be like his father, can you feel the desperation there? The love and hate and pure oedipal bullshit?”

“Willow has been so lonely and lost in the bottom of a bottle of wine. She needs a good man to treat her right and better than Jacques ever could. What better man than her own son? They both suffered from the abuse of Jacques, the loneliness, and Weiss and Winter leaving them behind. They are meant to be. Plus they killed the Hound together.”

DADDY'S PROJECT

“I think it would be cute if these two were incredibly codependent and protective of each other, that’s all I got.”

[jamicha]

HELP! I ACCIDENTALLY ENGAGED IN FANDOM DISCOURSE !

somebody made a comment i dont like but it REAKED of internalized homophobia to me and weird projection and i couldn't contain the beast (stop myself from reply) and i may or may not have been a bit harsh and pointed out that fact. oops. i dont regret it but now ive decided to take this stance indefinitely til the day i die and i will die on this hill

(psst my full thoughts are in the tags if you wanna like look or smth)

[edwardsissyhandsthtdanceslikeabb]

Well said 😭 i am so so tired of sanitized stories. I want fucked up romances. 😭😭😭

not only CAN we be more fucked up, we SHOULD be more fucked up. for science. for god.

🦅usa!usa!

[jasontoddiefor]

working irl to counter issues such as racism and queerphobia gives you the secret super power of giving significantly less fucks about online discourse and fandom wank. i don’t care about the problematic age gap incest ship you think is ruining your life there’s no affordable housing in my city and they’re cutting the funding for volunteer anti discrimination projects

[mariesoliver]

May god forgive me but my ex just posted a pic with a caption about his family back home struggling and needing support and i shoved that screen right into my face nose to pixels just staring at this man's gorgeous gorgeous face like the jawline was jawlining the curls were curling the eyes were eyeing ughhhhh

[pyraffin-drgo]

"Okay so you're shipping emotions now?"

No, I'm shipping characters. Just as I've always done

My husband: “isn’t it weird to ship emotions like aren’t they all technically the same person”

well back in my day we shipped countries idk what you want me to say

[dreamersofcolor]

welcome to the dreamer's lounge! 💌

this is a self ship blog dedicated to uplifting & supporting people of color in the community! i'm your mod, @taibobo!

things we offer here:

an open ask box for advice, discussing topics related to navigating self shipping as a person of color, gushing about your f/os, and showing support to other POC in the community!

promoting POC self shippers through reblogging their posts and supporting their commissions and mutual aid

imagine requests & submissions tailored specifically towards self shippers of color!

events and raffles that include prizes like free art, letters from your f/o, fanfiction, moodboards/stimboards, + more!

this account is villain / problematic f/o friendly (within reason) and non-sharing friendly (as long as you're respectful and kind towards doubles), but i do ask that any self shippers who condone or engage in adult/minor shipping, RPF, or shipping between related parties please do not interact!

additional rules below:

ask box rules:

though i aim to be a listening ear for those who don't feel they have one in the community, particularly sensitive subjects (SA/CSA, self harm, suicide, incest, police brutality) are prohibited to be discussed in detail, as well as excessive venting about personal issues not related to the self ship community

i try to be understanding of most people's f/o sources (lord knows mine are not free from discourse), i do ask that anyone who self ships from DSMP or any similar minecraft SMP channels and/or from the game clinical trial do not gush about those characters in the inbox! i also won't be reblogging posts with these characters. this is just a personal boundary, i hope you understand :)

non-detailed discussions of 18+ / nsft topics are ok, as long as you let me know at the beginning of the message via a content warning so i can always tag it properly!

just a reminder that i am doing this as a service to uplift people, so hate towards me or any other person is not tolerated!

also, i am just one guy, so please be patient! i have a full-time job, work freelance, and have several other projects on the side, among other things... i'm a busy little guy, so this is just a little thing i wanted to do for fun!

imagine / prompt rules:

i will not be writing any 18+ / nsft imagines or similar posts, nor will i be posting anything containing explicit content! this rule may change or have some kind of exception in the future (maybe some kind of 'after dark' events?), but for now-- SFW imagines only!

no imagines discussing the previously mentioned sensitive subjects in detail. things like "your f/o comforting you during a depressive episode" is fine, but something like "your f/o saving you from an attempted SA" or "your f/o stopping you from an attempt" is not.

promotion rules

i won't be reblogging from any accounts that break my dni or any posts that break any of the rules i've discussed earlier. i'll try my best to support everyone i can outside of that, so if you need any assistance, please feel free to shoot me a message with your post and as long as the rules are followed, i'll reblog / add it to the queue!

tags

#from the clouds: mod post / text post

#user / anon tag: self explanatory, for organization

#mailbox: any ask box submission

#gush: for talking about your f/os and how much you love them!

#advice column: for advice

#discussions: for talking about frustrating parts/struggles of being a POC in self shipping spaces

#adult dreaming: for nsft / 18+ / sensitive topic asks

#our favorite dreamers: for promoting art and self ship posts in the community

#wish on a star: for promoting mutual aid

#rec: for resources

#userboxes

#ask games

#reblog games

#templates

#polls

#present from the lounge: requests / event prizes

#dream a little dream: imagines/prompts written by me

#shared dream: imagines/prompts written by others

#slumber party: raffles / events

(divider credit)

[thirstkanaphan]

A Shipper's Perspective on SanSang

The San/Yeosang relationship receives positive and negative attention from the fandom. The majority of us find their bond really sweet! We coo when San clings to Yeosang and declares his love; we chuckle when Yeosang nods his head in shy acceptance.

On the extreme ends of the fandom spectrum, you encounter discourse that generally falls into two camps:

Yeosang is a hostage to San's overly-demonstrative affections

Yeosang is a homewrecker who broke up WooSan

These arguments are not new, but they increased in volume within the last year or two. I felt compelled to explore these arguments and put into words some of my complicated thoughts and feelings about this particular relationship. I also believe I'm in a unique position to comment on these arguments because...

I am a shipper. I've been in fandom spaces since I was a preteen (nearly 20 years!) and I am primarily drawn to a fandom when there is great potential for shipping. I was in the Hockey RPF fandom from 2012-2015 and wrote/consumed stories where NHL players kissed each other and sometimes got each other pregnant. These are my bona fides.

Everyone in the Hockey RPF fandom knew the rules. Don't break the fourth wall. Don't make it weird. Don't get delulu. We all understood that Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin were not secretly lovers pretending to be good friends and teammates (👀). We were there to have a good time and, more importantly, we all enjoyed hockey! I seriously got into hockey through fandom and attended many games. I still feel a huge swell of fondness when I catch the Pittsburgh Penguins on TV. THOSE ARE MY BOYS!

Before I found Ateez and joined this fandom, I was heavily into the BL genre and specifically Thai BL. The thing about Thai BL is that many of the most popular shows have nothing to do with their writing or directing or acting; they are popular because they star a "branded pair" of good-looking young men who perform fan service outside of their shows. While there are actual queer actors in the Thai BL genre, very few have the same level of global popularity as branded pairs.

ZeeNuNew, the hottest branded pair of the moment

Branded pairs are deliberately modeled on the kpop idol industry, which similarly encourages its young female audience to project m/m fantasies onto their faves. There's actually a whole Korean BL called Bump Up Business about two struggling idols (OnelyOneOf's Mill and Nine) who are paired together in a new group with instructions to appeal to fans through BGP: Business Gay Performance.

The key to a successful branded pair is to emulate as closely as possible m/m archetypes rooted in early '00s Japanese yaoi, which is the primogenitor for modern BL and remains a dominant influence in kpop fan-service.

Here are the main archetypes, as defined by the expert on the subject, AbsoluteBL:

seme: the active pursuer in the narrative (from the original attacker meaning of the word)

uke: the passive resistor in the narrative (defender)

AbsoluteBL clarifies: seme/uke is about who is in CONTROL of the relationship's story, as opposed to top/bottom, terms which come from the gay/queer community and pertain to sexual preference and (should) have nothing to do with narrative power dynamics.

Traditionally, the seme is physically larger and conventionally more masculine in appearance, while the uke is smaller and more feminine in appearance. The uke is often considered "pure" (yes, I know, problematic), which makes them all the more desirable. Female consumers project themselves onto the uke to enjoy a romantic fantasy without having to fully engage with the patriarchal bullshit baked into traditional m/f romance (AbsoluteBL calls this "heterosexual dysmorphia").

Do you see where I'm going with this?

Out of all the pairs in Ateez, SanSang are the most seme/uke-coded.

San is the pursuer. He wants to protect Yeosang because Yeosang is "cute" and "pure." San uses his size to put Yeosang into physical situations he must tolerate/endure for San's pleasure. San preens whenever Yeosang acknowledges him, compliments him, or initiates contact. San wants to take Yeosang to "Paradise" (Single's Inferno) and feed him steak in bed. Only San can kiss Yeosang, which he repeatedly tells atiny. We cannot have Yeosang, he belongs to San.

On paper (or on tumblr), this description would make anyone raise an eyebrow. For the anti-fans of this relationship, San is a bully who routinely takes advantage of Yeosang's gentle nature. I've even heard an argument that San's physical transformation prompted KQ to "reassign" him Yeosang as a fan-service partner in order to maximize their seme/uke appeal to fans. As evidence, fans point to Yeosang's tendency to flinch whenever San gets too close and his hesitancy to reciprocate when San boldly declares his love in front of the cameras.

I have a few responses to this characterization of their relationship.

Quick note: fan service is a feature, not a bug, of kpop. The HYBE internal docs that leaked last summer explicitly mentioned different ships among various Big4 groups and cited strategies for promoting certain ships among their own groups.

Ateez excels at fan service, and this is partially to do with their natural chemistry with and genuine affection for each other. But also, as a smaller company, KQ did not have the means or resources to provide media-training to Ateez in their early years AND they gave almost unfettered access to the members via the vlive app, which is how many kpop fans got to know smaller and newer groups.

The sale of vlive to HYBE, who proceeded to shut down the app and replace it with their own company-managed app, terminated that kind of easy and unrestricted access to idols.

From what I gather, Ateez's growing popularity can be attributed in part to how much the members charmed fans by being unscripted and candid in their live videos, often about their relationships with each other. Sometimes we saw too much, i.e., the Woo-San-Sang intervention during their Christmas live.

I think fans got used to a certain kind of fan service from Ateez, a kind of fan service that seemed to tease fans with a genuine "what if?" about their relationships. This was helped by the built-in narratives surrounding the members: Yunho and Mingi meeting in ninth grade; Wooyoung and Yeosang being trainees together; Seonghwa being inspired by Hongjoong to pursue his idol dream.

And of course, WooSan, but I'll get to them later.

Going to back to SanSang: if you watch their early content, you'll see that San was drawn to Yeosang and the feeling was reciprocated. You can find multiple examples of them cuddling, hugging, and being affectionate with each other going back to 2019. It's been going on since San's "twink" era!

However, while fan service comes naturally to San, it is not the same for Yeosang. In fact, while he excels at all other aspects of being an idol (such as vocals, performance, dance, visuals) he arguably lacks the instincts for fan service. He is different from someone like Jongho, who abstains from fan service unless he's in the mood, or Hongjoong, whose tsundere persona (another Japanese romance archetype) is part of the Matz appeal.

My fellow ateez meta writers have offered their thoughts about Yeosang and how he often suffers for lack of "killer instincts" within the group (they clearly adore each other, but they also fight each other for our love and attention). What is the cause of Yeosang's passivity? Is it lingering trauma from his trainee years? Is it his general tendency to be forgetful or oblivious about events happening around him? Yes, Yeosang is smart, clever, and has a dry sense of humor, but he's also the child that Hongjoong said was hardest to parent.

Then there's a Yeosang that we almost never see and we once glimpsed in a cute exchange between him and Mingi. It's implied that Mingi and Yeosang forgot they were being filmed and Yeosang spoke differently than he normally does on camera, which San observes in surprise. I am not a Korean speaker, but he sounds extra sweet and soft. If that's how he is at home, no wonder he inspires so much cuteness aggression in the members.

I'll also note that Yeosang's "flinch" response to fan service is similar no matter who handles him, whether it's Mingi, Wooyoung, or Jongho. Yet, San is his most persistent suitor and his actions draw the most attention, positive and negative.

Let's Talk About San

San's shiftable personality is something the members observed in an early vlive with Hongjoong, Mingi, Seonghwa, and Yunho.

Mingi: "which member has the most behavioral gap with and without a camera?"

Hongjoong suggests that Yeosang and Seonghwa are pretty much the same with or without a camera. But San behaves differently.

Hongjoong: "Seriously. In the absence of a camera...how should I put this...I'm having trouble putting it in a nice way...he has a pretty extreme character...his mood changes a lot...whenever we all gather for a conversation, he's like...it's fascinating! How does someone think like that? He acts like a normal person with a camera...he's very abnormal with us."

While Hongjoong is talking, the other three see San approaching and they all visibly get nervous.

San: "I heard you dissing me!"

I recap this live because I think it strengthens my interpretation of the SanSang relationship as informed more by San's personality than company mandates. I think San's extreme personality and his ability to shift into "character" in front of the camera enables him to similarly adapt to certain dynamics. He is very perceptive about what his members need out of fan service with him. He's Yunho's sweet boy; he's Seonghwa's pesky little brother; he's Jongho's favorite hyung; he's Mingi's goofball bro. We'll get to Wooyoung.

Thus, one theory is that San becomes the "seme" for Yeosang because he recognizes a need in Yeosang that isn't being met.

Let's revisit the 2024 Off The Record interview between San and Yeosang:

San: There's something I want to ask you. Did anything I did upset you?

Yeosang: Actually, for me, instead of being upset, I feel more like I owe you an apology. Because for example, when you say things like "I love you", you show your love and affection, for me it's not easy to reciprocate, so I feel like I owe you an apology. Sometimes, when you try to kiss me... how can I say it... my body's reaction to avoid it is automatic.

And when San replies that Yeosang has done nothing to upset him, Yeosang continues, unprompted:

Yeosang: Nothing upsets you... Thinking about it another way, this feeling of being upset, I don't think it's entirely negative. I feel like the closer the person is, It's easier to get upset about something. I often wonder if I'm not doing enough (also about taking care of San). It's a bit of a stretch to say something like "I'm going to do something to upset you," but I'm going to do my best to do it.

Let's go back a year earlier to Yeosang's message to San during San's 2023 birthday live:

Sometimes when san shows affection to me, I...hahah...because i’m a little shy, yes...so i really, i really like, i brush it away/discard it but still...to me who cannot express (affection well), Sanie approaching me like this first is (something) i’m always grateful for, and because i feel like i won’t ever be able to express that gratefulness well, so i’m sorry too, but still, i am always thinking very thankfully to Sanie who approaches me first like this.

After listening to this, San smiles softly and says, "You're mine."

I think a more cynical person could read these exchanges as Yeosang apologizing for not giving back enough to their fan service, but I think Yeosang is really saying that he wants to be an active participant in his relationship with San. He wants to be able to genuinely upset San, which he sees as a marker of close friendship. While there is still a part of him that remains uneasy with San's excessive physical affection, he wants to be more to San than just a pretty doll to play with. (Interestingly, this is how Jongho described his relationship with Wooyoung earlier in the ep: “am I an accessory to you?”) I don't think for one second that San feels anything less for Yeosang than intense care and adoration.

Given all of this, SanSang "should" work as a major ship!!

Fans should be falling all over themselves to romanticize the gentle, dominant seme coaxing the timid, traumatized uke into accepting his care and affection!

Yet instead, many in the fandom have a hard time accepting or appreciating the fan-service SanSang provide. It comes off as particularly inauthentic for them. Almost too much like a manhwa/yaoi manga.

The primary reason? WooSan.

Many folks have already written about the WooSan ship and why they find it so exciting and compelling. A lot of the reasons boil down to this: it could actually be real.

My non-shipper kpop friend, who listens to everything but doesn't participate in the fandom, told me at their concert that there was a time when she genuinely thought WooSan were in love.

The image above sums up fandom's perception of WooSan: Wooyoung leads, San follows. Wooyoung pushes, teases, pressures, initiates, while San watches him with the fondest look in his eyes. Wooyoung demands, San gives: his attention, his praise, his own flesh. For narrative purposes, Wooyoung is the seme, San is the uke.

This is an exciting dynamic for shippers, refreshing for its lack of traditional yaoi archetypes. Big, strong San getting pushed around by bratty Wooyoung and loving it. San wrote tragic fanfiction for their characters in Bouncy. San is so confident in Wooyoung's love for him that he jokes Wooyoung will "always come back" even if he strays to another members. San is Wooyoung's home.

The biggest Yeosang antis claim that SanSang is an insult to WooSan. They claim San only acts like he's close to Yeosang because the company separated WooSan after they got too close for comfort during Bouncy era. Fans point to fewer WooSan appearances and promotional activities; no more shippy moments during the logbooks; they rarely filmed tiktoks or tagged each other in instagram photos; there was less "soulmate" talk on lives and during interviews. To add insult to injury, they didn't even get a unit song: It's You is a three-man performance with Yeosang.

Another theory shared by a not-insignificant faction within the fandom is that Wooyoung would not permit himself to be put into the role of the passive, submissive uke, so KQ made the call that San should be more attentive to Yeosang.

I am sure there are multiple factors for why WooSan distanced themselves/were distanced after Bouncy-era (cue Oprah voice "were you silent? or were you silenced?"), and I do think some of that has to do with the meteoric rise of Ateez after Bouncy. I think all of them were savvy enough to realize that they could promote the group on more than just being yaoiteez, and San's skyrocketing fame contributed to that shift too, along with Wooyoung's own self-described internal character arc away from being the "sexy" member towards someone with more mystery and maturity.

I would argue that their "distance" had the result of redirecting our attention to how affectionate San already was with all the members. Suddenly we're noticing how clingy he is with Yunho, Seonghwa, and Jongho. Same goes for Yeosang. Their dynamics are nothing new, but I would argue the fandom's attention and scrutiny made it seem new.

While this cannot be an accurate measurement of anything really, compare how many fics are written about each pair:

San/Wooyoung: 7,525 works on Archive Of Our Own

San/Yeosang: 1,345 works on Archive Of Our Own

As a shipper, there are really interesting observations to make about why the SanSang ship does not work compared to the WooSan ship.

My main theory takes us back to those classic seme/uke dynamics that the SanSang dynamic reproduces through their fan service. When compared with WooSan, SanSang comes off as inauthentic because it's too obvious, too easy, too much like shipper bait. It's traditional yaoi-coded appeal is actually the turn-off!

Here's my other theory: many are uncomfortable with SanSang because it forces them to reckon with the very real Business Gay Performance scaffolding all idol fan service. Because if SanSang is obviously manufactured for attention, are other unit pairs the same?

A Final Few Words About Yeosang

Yeosang is the unfair recipient of a lot of hate by the fandom, for shipping and non-shipping reasons. It's awful and it needs to stop.

I also see a worrying trend among his staunchest defenders of infantilizing Yeosang, stripping him of agency in their battles on his behalf, whether it's for better line distribution, more solo promotions, and fashion week schedules. There was even talk of organizing protest trucks outside of KQ, which I personally find mortifying.

I sincerely hope that in the future Yeosang has more opportunities to shine as a singer, dancer, and performer. I also hope that he comes to a place of comfort and confidence in his abilities to give and receive affection from the people who love him the most, a struggle he's voiced publicly. I truly wish him the best!

A Final Few Words About Me!

As someone who was introduced to Ateez via shipping my initial understanding of these relationships was refracted through the lens of the fandom. It's rare for me to move from "fanon" to "canon" like I am with Ateez, where I'm catching up on all their content, vlogs, and interviews and trying to understand them as "real" people, to the extent that anyone can ever know an idol. I am now streaming and voting in addition to reading fic! I'm no longer lurking but actively participating as a fan! This is a whole new phase for me in my 15+ years of being in fandom.

The interesting thing about my journey is that while I entered the fandom through the side door, I've actually become more interested in their IRL relationships and dynamics. I still read fic of course, but like my Hockey RPF fandom days I am able to compartmentalize the part of my brain that goes "oh these pretty boys are in love and should kiss!" and the other part that goes "these enormously talented artists deserve my support and attention."

That being said, I still enjoy shipping and I enjoying talking about how RPF ships work in the context of the idol industry. SanSang is a great case study to think about these topics, and I hope others will respond and with their own meta.

Thank you for your time!

[fuck-you-upmusicbracket]

Welcome everyone, to the Fuck-You-Up Music Bracket - Round 2!!!!!

Ever had a song you can't get out of your head, a song that strips you down to your very being and leaves you with nothing? A song that you project onto your angstiest of blorbos? A song that hits you smack where you live? Or how about a song that you just really enjoy?

Then this is the place for you! We're reopening submissions for a second bracket, to crown a new champion as the ultimate fuck-you-up ballard of tumblr!

Submission Rules

Don't resubmit songs that were in the first bracket. They won't be allowed in. I've put the first bracket under the read more, so you can check before you submit. Unfortunately there is no spreadsheet version, but you can search my blog for the artists of previous rounds

You can resubmit songs that were submitted to the first bracket, but didn't make it in

Submissions for the previous bracket closed on 26th of May 2023. Any music released since then is fair game

Submissions will aim to stay open for a week, but if I get a crazy amount, they will close sooner

Because it took me so long to sort through them last time, I'm aiming to cap submissions at 600, with a bracket size of around approximately 512, but this may change

This probably goes without saying, but don't re-submit the same song multiple times. It makes my job harder, and chances are someone submitted the same song as you already

Songs from movies, musicals, TV shows, video games and other media are allowed!

As are scores and soundtracks and songs without lyrics!

Songs in languages other than English are allowed too!

Songs must be at least remotely fuck-you-up-ish. You must be able to justify its place in the tournament

You can rant about whatever blorbo you project your song onto in your descriptions, it helps me understand your reasoning better :)

Songs created by problematic bands/artists/media are allowed. However, I am not in control of how quickly it might get voted off

Propaganda is allowed and encouraged! No slander though

Submissions close on 14th of February 10:00AM (UK Time)

If there are any problems with the form or other questions, please send me an ask or message

Submissions are now closed

Tagging for visibility

@tournament-announcer @best-tournament-blog-bracket @ao3topshipsbracket @autismswagsummit @besttropeveershowdown @bl-bracket @champsinthemaking @controversial-blorbo-bracket @dysfunctional-family-fight @fandom-march-madness @fictional-gods-tournament @fictional-twink-bracket @gay-disabled-characters-showdown @gimmick-blog-bracket @girlbossmalewifetournament @goverment-agency-bracket @guess-that-ship @haveyouseenthisseries-poll @its-to-the-death @npd-characters-tournament @pokemonbattletournament @princesspoll @quote-tournament @sexiestpodcastcharacter @who-do-i-know-this-man @undertale-ost-tournament @variouspolltournaments @tragic-ships-tournament @do-you-ship-it-polls @midwest-emo-tournament

[minty-mumbles]

LU Survey 2024 Results

The long awaited results of the survey. Thank you guys for being so patient with me :)

There were 350 responses to the survey this year! Not as many as there were last year, but still impressive. If you want to look at the raw data for this, you can do so here

Demographics

General Questions

Favorites and Least Favorites

Blank Space Question (Select Answers)

I'm so normal about Legend (the biggest lie I've ever told)

WIND BABY WIND OUGH IHGH UUOA I AM SICK FOR HIM MY SKRUNKLE MY OUGHGHHGJUA BELOVED

Remember that fandom is a community! Reach out to each other and learn something new! Give someone a compliment! Ask them a question! Encourage new artists and writers who are still learning! Thank you Mint for doing the survey again, too!

The fact no one has thought of calling Warrior's Zelda, "Areia" hurts me deeply "Hyppolita" even, please, with how much shipping there is between them, people sure are eager to name her after goddesses who have vowed to never have romantic relationships.

I dont think the fandom talks about it but i really love that every single piece of sky clothing is embroidered, because unless skyloft has embroidery machines thats all hand done. Which means either someone he knows makes a lot of them and gives them out freely (i give most of my projects to friends and family) or he would have paid someone for it, which means that either someone on skyloft lives of decorating clothing (and likely other fabrics) or someone just uses it to get some extra money (both are amazing since in the modern day people dont want to pay for handcrafted works what its actually worth)

Shark skeletons are made of cartilage, not bone

It's dangerous to go alone. Take this. 🦆

FOUR SUPREMACY🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥💚❤️💙💜💪💪💪💪🔛🔝💯💯💯💯💯

No but the Athena/Artemis thing is so real. What’s up with that. Why did we pick Artemis? Why did we do that?

I find it so funny how the fandom has decided to call Dark Link "Dink" because whenever I play a Zelda game I name my character Dink or Dinkus :D I started doing this waaaaay before I knew about LU

Im so excited for Echos of Wisdom! I find it really funny that Nintendo keeps making it harder for JoJo to stick to the plan, I'm pretty sure it's Legend and Fable but I'm not certain any ways Im really happy!

I love how LU is a culmination of so many of my favorite tropes from other fandoms! It’s been really comforting and nostalgic for me despite the fact that I only got into it this year. Especially since so many creators I liked have been getting revealed as problematic, it’s nice to be able to fall back on fictional characters who can’t ruin the lives of real people. :)

[gotorux]

Fandom Culture, Forced Shipping, and the Blurred Line Between Representation and Projection!

I know I am mostly just a lurker but I’ve seen an increasing amount of problematic behavior I feel like needs to be called out.

In recent months, the engagement in fandom has often taken a more aggressive, absolutist tone, particularly around topics like shipping, representation, and attraction to fictional characters. The result is a space where important distinctions are lost, bad faith accusations are rampant, and people are silenced for engaging with media in a way that doesn’t align with the loudest voices in the room. And this is not only excessively problematic, but alienating as well.

Let’s start with shipping.

Not every ship is canon!

In many fandoms(especially those centered around shonen anime) intense, emotionally rich male friendships are increasingly interpreted as romantic by default. It’s no longer enough for two male characters to share trust, trauma, or growth. If they’re close, they must be in love. And if you don’t ship them, or worse, if you insist they’re just friends, you’re suddenly accused of being homophobic or “anti-queer.”

But this isn’t about homophobia. It’s about preserving narrative integrity and celebrating platonic male intimacy, which is just as rare and precious in storytelling as authentic queer representation.

Take JJK. The bond between Gojo and Geto is complex, layered, and filled with emotional weight…but it is not romantic. Canon sources back this up clearly. The JJK fanbook confirms that Gojo likes women(also parts of the anime/manga), and even states that he moved on from Geto’s defection relatively easily, contrary to the tragic soulmate narrative pushed by fans.

The characters have ideological differences, not romantic tension. Their story is one of parallel evolution, not forbidden love. And yet, fandom discussion around either character often cannot exist without centering the other in a romantic framework.

This pattern repeats across nearly every popular shonen series: Yuji and Megumi, Levi and Erwin, Gon and Killua, Naruto and Sasuke, Deku and Bakugo.

These dynamics are written as bonds forged in hardship, friendship, loyalty, and sometimes rivalry…not as romances. When fandom insists otherwise, it flattens emotional complexity into shallow tropes and undermines both queer representation and male friendship.

Worse, it perpetuates toxic masculinity: the idea that men can’t express love, loyalty, or emotional vulnerability unless it’s romantic or sexual. That’s not progressive! It’s regressive.

The insistence on romantic shipping as a form of queer representation also reveals a disturbing double standard. If fans truly wanted more visibility for LGBTQ+ characters, we’d see more support for female/female (F/F) ships, which are often canonically or subtextually queer. Like Ymir and Historia in Attack on Titan.

But these ships rarely receive the same level of obsession or cultural reach. Why? Because in many cases, M/M shipping isn’t about queer advocacy at all, it’s about indulging in aestheticized emotional fantasy between attractive male characters. That’s not inherently wrong, but it should be recognized for what it is, rather than masquerading as activism.

Queer representation matters. But it needs to be authentic, deliberate, and earned; not projected onto stories that were never meant to carry that weight.

Respecting Canon Isn’t Homophobic.

Choosing not to ship a pair of characters doesn’t make someone homophobic. Refusing to see a romance where none exists isn’t hate, it’s media literacy. It’s about engaging with a story on its own terms, rather than demanding it conform to fan fantasies.

It’s deeply hurtful to be labeled anti-queer simply for seeing value in platonic bonds. That kind of moral weaponization doesn’t uplift the queer community; it silences those who see emotional depth without sexual tension.

Now to my next topic.

Fictional Attraction and the “Minor” Discourse:

Another area where fandom discourse has become both toxic and confused is in the discussion around attraction to fictional characters, particularly those labeled as teenagers in-universe.

Take Megumi Fushiguro, again from Jujutsu Kaisen. He’s described as a high schooler, but designed with adult features: tall, mature, emotionally restrained, and drawn with adult proportions. He looks and acts like someone in his early 20s.

Yet fans who say they find him attractive are often accused of “liking minors.” This kind of accusation is not only wrong…it’s deeply irresponsible.

Fiction ≠ Reality

Being attracted to a fictional, adult-coded character is not the same as being attracted to real-life minors. There is a vast and meaningful difference between responding to stylized, idealized character design and holding dangerous views in the real world. Conflating the two trivializes real child exploitation and erodes the seriousness of actual abuse.

That said, there is a line and it’s when characters are child-coded…that is, when they are drawn, voiced, or characterized in ways that deliberately evoke youth, vulnerability, or prepubescence.

Examples include: Nezuko from Demon Slayer, whose tiny frame, infant-like behavior, and childlike mannerisms are clearly designed to evoke a little girl. Deku from My Hero Academia, who is introduced as either 14 or 15 with a young, innocent personality and childlike appearance.

When people sexualize characters like these, it does raise ethical concerns, because the appeal is rooted in traits associated with childhood. That’s a different conversation entirely, and it deserves to be had.

Attraction to adult-coded characters with stated ages under 18? Not inherently problematic. Depends on design and context.

Attraction to child-coded or loli/shota characters, regardless of “age?” Concerning. Context matters more than labels.

Conflating all attraction to stylized characters as predatory? Harmful, misleading, and erases real harm.

This is about critical thinking, not knee-jerk labeling. We must be able to distinguish between what’s a fantasy, what’s fetishization, and what’s actual danger.

Fandom has always been a place of personal connection, but somewhere along the way, nuance got lost. Every emotional bond became romantic. Every attraction became a red flag. Every disagreement became a moral failing.

But not everything is a ship.

Not every fictional character is a stand-in for real life.

Not every headcanon is representation.

And not every boundary is bigotry.

It’s time to bring context, compassion, and clarity back into fandom conversations. We need to protect the things that actually matter, without shaming people for simply engaging with fiction in a way that’s honest, respectful, and thoughtful.

Let friendships be friendships. Let attraction to stylized adult characters exist without slander. And let’s stop calling everything abuse because that only blinds us to the places where it really exists.