#which robin idk

[skooorch]

Cass, cass, cass, cass and cass had a great time, and ordered burgers.

And Cass tried to steal it all.

[pru-dle]

Gonna do the other robins but also Tim stumped me so bad now his portrait is extremely more detailed than I wanted it to be AHAHQHSHQC

[aofikofi]

bart vs his friends jackets (and cape?)

[swiggity-swexual-i-am-asexual]

We all know the semi-canonical ‘all the Robins know to hide/duck inside of Batman’s cape, even as adults’ thing.

We also know that Danny ‘is LITERALLY a ghost’ Fenton sucks at remembering his own intangibility while ALSO forgetting to look ahead of him.

All I’m saying is, Danny Fenton (or Phantom, if you’d really like) would absolutely SLAM into Batman on accident while running on roof tops and Bruce ‘Brooding Instinct’ Wayne doesn’t even think twice about letting the kid hide and scanning around for danger before there’s a record scratch of ‘wait who tf is this?’ kicks in.

[oncillabrigade]

I'm sure someone has said this before but...

I think it would be really funny if Scarecrow fear-gassed Tim and just, like... nada. Red Robin keeps walking right towards him, no mask for the toxins, just breathing it in, and beats Scarecrow's sorry ass back into Arkham.

Crane is panicking: what went wrong with the gas? Was it sabotaged? Have the bats figured out how to metabolize it somehow? Is Red Robin not a human? What is going on???

Meanwhile, in the Batcave, everyone is asking Tim how he did it, and he's like, "um. I didn't get gassed? Like, I was having a trauma-induced hallucinogenic episode, don't get me wrong! I saw loved ones dying everywhere; Bruce hating me; failing at everything I do because I'm not actually smart, just lucky... the usual. But it wasn't Scarecrow's doing. That just happens."

And then a minute later he's like, "although that hallucination did have a lot of spiders in it... holy shit, I might have been fear-gassed."

[lena-thinks-too-much]

It is so, so important to me that people understand that Tim didn't figure out the bats because Dick was a "Show off". Like yes, Dick Grayson is the most flamboyant, dramatic ass man you will ever meet.

But the quadruple somersault? There's no way that was because dick was just showing off. Because you're telling me Bruce Wayne, who's so committed to hiding his identity that he literally acts like a completely different person out of the mask in public just to ward suspicion, would miss the fact that Robin regularly uses the flying Grayson's trademark move? There's literally no way.

In the comics we see Tim explain his deductive process to Dick and Alfred and they're both surprised impressed whatever. We don't see him explain it to Bruce. I think Bruce would be surprised and shocked that a 9 year old was able to put the pieces together but I don't think he'd be surprised that the quadruple somersault gave it away.

So if Bruce was possibly aware of such an obvious give away, why let it continue?

I'll tell you why.

It really comes down to the physics

So Dick was 9 when he started out right? That means the most he'd have likely weighed was 43kgs or roughly 95lbs in freedom units.

But Dick and both of his parents are gymnasts who tend to be smaller. So he was likely less than that.

In physics, rotating objects build up angular momentum (this is how bikes stay up right for example). The more rotation, the more momentum. And objects with less mass build up that momentum much faster than those that are heavier.

Robin constantly has to fight people who are nearly 3 times his size. I teach 8 year olds, they're tiny. A quadruple somersault for a small boy that weighs less than a hundred pounds is a brutal weapon. Especially if you add in the acceleration from gravity as he drops in from above.

And I can guarantee you this logic tracks because Dick literally utilizes this idea, without the somersault, in the 2009 teen titans cartoon.

Yeah, that's right. We're talking about the infamous knee drop.

Like it is borderline savage. Add in a quadruple somersault and the resulting force is nearly fatal. It's likely the main reason Batman would ever allow him to do it with the cape on.

Also, Dick landing feet first on the penguin in the first image probably gave the guy severe back issues

[garpen]

I love Gothamites thinking that the batfamily are Cryptids when they're not.

I also love the idea that to begin with, Gothamites know Robin has been a bunch of different human kids that the: Definitely a Cryptid Batman™ (bc let's be honest that thing is not human) has taken under his wing.

I think it makes the Robins scarier to them. Like "There's something fucked up enough about this kid that the Demon Bat took them in." And they're all pretty sure that every time there's a switch in Robin's it's bc the Cryptid Demon Batman thing probably killed them off or something.

They always try and warn off whatever new Robin he's taken in, but whenever they do the New Robin always laughs them off or attempts to assure them that they're fine and not worry.

[theredcuyo]

Just had a fun idea

So

There's two Big Nightwing fan clubs that are in constant debate over who loves him more

The presidents, respectively, are Jon and Damian, neither knows about it and only a few members do, said few members are Tim (who joined Jon to spite Damian and now he's vicepresident, Damian banned him from his) Lian (who is in both) and Roy (Lian told him)

Jason is Damian's vicepresident and he's hiding it

Bruce supports both with money, by buying all the merch they sell (with just bare limitations, so everyone else can get some)

Oh, Cass and Alfred also know, they just do

[baltharino]

Lego Batman: The Movie - DC Super Heroes Unite (2013)

[sonacava]

beloved <3

[luvuomi]

“On the 𝔀ings of a small, simple 𝓶elody

Words take 𝐟light and 𝐬oar

They carry me

A 𝒘orld we'll see . . . ”

a single verse that faintly echoes throughout an empty auditorium; written on delicate parchment, it’s penmanship elegant yet faded with time. though an enchanted being meant to be revered by the awe-like gaze of many, this enigmatic dove has chosen to soar beyond the cosmos where it remains out of sight. once upon a time, miss amélie had once taken to the spotlight, dazzling the citizens of penacony with her soft charm that many likened to the moonlight’s glow. but the amélie of today has since retired from the stage—the details of which she did not enlighten me with nor did i push for after seeing that wistful look in her eyes—and now continues her journey as but a humble songwriter for others.

“i wish to lend my voice to others.. for those who wish to be seen, heard, and remembered. there was a time in which i once felt forgotten by the world, overlooked as a dimly-lit star amongst a sky of countless others who’s light burns brightly. in order to be saved, i too must burn.. or so i thought. this song was created at a time in which i wanted to be heard, and i was. in that sense, i suppose you could say i sympathize with them.”

this was the response the halovian had given me when asked to explain what she believes her purpose as a songwriter is. when i asked miss amélie about whether or not she would ever consider returning to the life of stardom, the young lady merely smiled as she folded up the parchment in her hand, before deftly tucking it away in her old song-writing book.

“my story has been told. i have nothing else to share that i feel needs to be acknowledged. in any case, i’m quite certain we’ll bare witness to many more fascinating stories in the coming years.” a pause. “… i’ll make sure of it.”

— an excerpt from moonlight’s silent voice: an exclusive interview from penacony’s hidden star, amélie.

🎨 →⠀﹐⠀╱⠀hsr! amélie was brought to life by the amazing @charlikesalmon !! AAAAA THEY DID SUCH AN INCREDIBLE JOB this is my second time working with char and to say i’m satisfied would be such an understatement🥹🤍they truly captured what i had envisioned and made it a reality AND IT CAME OUT SO CUTE AND LOVELY OH MY GOODNESS.. i would recommend anyone interested to please check them out and support!

[casscainmainly]

Cass, Names, and the Black Bat Era

With a Black Bat mention in 2025 (read Batgirl (2024) #4!!), it seems as good a time as any to look back on one of Cass' most fleeting identities. We all know why Cass took up Batgirl and Orphan, but we don't get to see the thought process behind Black Bat. I'm going to consider why Cass might have chosen Black Bat as her name, and what it means for her relationship to Bruce and the Bat symbol.

This analysis will purely consider events from the characters' perspectives, ignoring authorial intent. There is like a negative percent chance any of the connections I make here were intended, and Black Bat probably was just a name they randomly picked. This is essentially me trying to make sense of the little Cass bits we get during the Batman Reborn era.

Background: Batgirl and Orphan

Growing up nameless, Cass associates names with personhood and autonomy. Batgirl was the first (and the most important), and a large part of Batgirl (2000) showed how Cass only thinks of herself as Batgirl.

Batgirl (2000) #7

"You need to relax, Cass--sorry--Batgirl." Barbara's 'sorry' indicates that Cass' identity is purely Batgirl, disliking any other name. (For a more in-depth exploration of this moment, see renaroo's meta!). This shows how it's not just the mantle, but the name - the actual word - that matters to Cass.

A very similar thing happens in Batman & Robin Eternal #26:

Once again, Cass is extremely particular about what people call her. And once again she rejects one identity in favour of another - she struggles with being more than one thing. Whatever identity she adopts, it contains her whole self.

Which is why when she loses herself, she becomes nameless:

Batgirl (2000) #73 / Red Robin #17

In the first panel, Cass has just 'killed' Shiva and forsaken Batgirl. "She thought she was a bat. But she came to find she wasn't that either." Without the bat, she becomes a girl "named Cain." While not technically nameless, Cain is just her father's last name - she has no first name of her own. This namelessness occurs again in Red Robin. After Bruce tells Cass to give Steph Batgirl, Cass is left without the bat again - and, again, she becomes nameless. Tim gives her a bat costume, asks her what she needs, and she says "to... just... be...".

If she takes up another name, she will become something - a name is not only identification, but transformation. When she has no idea who she is or who she wants to be (as seen in the end of Batgirl (2000) and Red Robin), she chooses namelessness.

The Gift

Cass remaining nameless not only shows her lack of identity, but her rejection of Bruce and the Batfamily.

Red Robin #17

Here, Tim says it doesn't matter what Cass calls herself, they'll always be family. Cass' answer is cryptic: "But family is not always home..." If we look at Cass' history, the only times she leaves her family is when their relationship becomes unbearable. She runs from David Cain because he makes her kill; she leaves Babs because she calls her stupid; she leaves Gotham the first time because of Steph's death; she goes to Hong Kong because Bruce makes her give away Batgirl. Family isn't home for Cass only when something awful happens.

For Cass, family and names have always been linked. In my gift post, I talked about how Batgirl was presented as a gift, and how Babs says gifts are things that make you "feel[...] not alone" (Azrael: Agent of the Bat #61). Batgirl, a gift, makes Cass feel "not alone." The mantle represents her connection to the Batfamily.

In fact, Red Robin parallels the original gifting of the Batgirl suit:

Legends of the Dark Knight #120 / Red Robin #17

Tim explicitly links the gift of the Bat symbol to family: "the...family... has settled down. I thought maybe... it was time to make it all official." (This also somewhat parallels Bruce's adoption of Cass, which Tim was also there for). But Cass doesn't accept the gift this time, telling Tim that Steph is already Batgirl, and that 'family isn't always home'. She keeps the suit, but the ambivalence in her response shows her ambivalence to her family.

Batgirl and Orphan are both familial names, one linked to the Bats, one linked to David Cain. Names to Cass represent both her own identity and her relationship to other people. When Batman took Batgirl away, he was essentially revoking her place in the family (Batman R.I.P happens right after her adoption too). Though we never explicitly get Cass' feelings, her hesitance at Tim's gift says a lot.

What Was Tim's Gift Anyway?

When Tim first sees Cass, he thinks to himself:

Red Robin #17

This is a great insight into what Tim was actually offering. The first thought reveals that Tim wasn't suggesting Cass be Batgirl again, which Cass assumed. He knows Cass doesn't want to be "who she was" - he thinks she's being true to what "she wanted to become."

What does he think Cass wants to become?

Batgirl (2000) #59

In Robin/Batgirl: Fresh Blood, Cass tells Tim the "the only thing" she's ever wanted was to be Batman. This is the only thing she wants - when Tim says she's being 'true to what she wanted to become', it's likely he's thinking of this conversation. So when Tim offers the batsuit, he's offering the bat mantle. He's offering what she always wanted to be: Batman.

But Cass' conception of Batman is clearly tied to Bruce ("take over for him when he's... done"), which in turn ties the concept of Batman to Gotham. Cass does become the Bat of Hong Kong, but she doesn't take the Batman name (which she totally could, since Bruce and Dick are sharing the name; or she could be 'the bat' or whatever).

Instead, she chooses Black Bat. Both Batgirl and Orphan are taken from other people, so this is strikingly the only name Cass invented (even Kasumi was probably not her invention? It was a disguise anyway). But was Black Bat actually Cass' invention?

Tai'Darshan All Along

Batgirl (2000) #40

Black Bat is also taken from someone - from Cass' first canon love interest, the one and only Tai'Darshan. I seriously don't think DC knew they were taking the name from him, but they did and that means Tai is extremely important to understanding Cass' Black Bat era.

Because Tai doesn't just represent teenage hormones. Like Lady Shiva, Tai'Darshan was a foil to Batman, someone who opposed him in almost every aspect. He is Cass' first proper rebellion, kickstarting the downfall of Cass and Bruce's relationship in Horrocks' run; he also died because of Bruce's interference, something that Bruce himself thinks is the reason Cass doesn't trust him anymore.

Batgirl (2000) #47

Though Bruce and Cass make up in #50, there is something permanently secretive about Black Wind and Cass' relationship. Bruce says "she won't tell me what" happened, and Tai's last conversation with Cass is about secrets:

Batgirl (2000) #44

Tai'Darshan represents Cass' secret side, a side "buried" from everyone (particularly Bruce). Tai's reference to Cass' "real name" is poignant - in a way, he was the first person who liked Cass for Cass, who asked her to take off her mask and admired her face underneath. He never knew who she really was, but he loved her anyway. The 'bat' in Black Bat doesn't refer to Bruce, but to Cass. It makes sense that at a time of complete identity loss - after giving up Batgirl at Bruce's orders - Cass would turn to a nickname from someone who caused her falling out with Bruce, who represents secrets, rebellion, and a self defined outside of Batman.

Black Bat

Gates of Gotham #4

I wrote elsewhere about how Gates of Gotham, and this conversation with Dick in particular, is Cass rebelling against Bruce's (and DC's) decision to boot her from Gotham. In GoG #5, she tells Tim she's staying. Black Bat as a mantle is not really Cass becoming 'the Bat' of any place - it's something different, something new. It's a reconfiguration of the Bat symbol as something that's hers.

I think Tim bookending this Black Bat experience is important, too. He gives her the Bat symbol in Hong Kong - she comes back to Gotham to tell him she's returning permanently. Black Bat and Red Robin are syntactically similar, and Black Bat is very similar to one of Tim's name suggestions ("Black Robin"). For Tim, Red Robin was punishment made into redemption; he took the name from Jason and made it his own. Black Bat, in its own way, is Cass doing the same. By taking a nickname from Tai'Darshan, she is using the bat name/symbol without attaching it to Bruce; in fact, the memory of Tai is against Bruce. She's taking back the symbol that means so much to her and making it her own.

Conclusion

This was honestly a big excuse to remind people that Black Bat comes from Tai'Darshan. As one of 4 Tai fans on this website, I just think his role in Cass' life is really interesting and underappreciated! His storyline may be awful in every way, but I'll always have a soft spot for him as a character.

Also I was writing this before Batgirl (2024) #4 came out and it does somewhat complicate this reading. Shiva is implying that Black Bat, like Orphan (and Kasumi) are identities that Cass affects, that she's "aspiring to be somebody else". I don't think Shiva is being quite fair - Orphan, for instance, is as much in defiance of David Cain as it is an homage to him. But it's interesting that even when Cass is constructing her own identity, she consistently defaults to using other people's names. In that way Shiva is right - for Cass, names are gifts, so she never tries to name herself. She also, even in this reading, clings to the image of the bat. I'm highly interested where Brombal's investigation into Cass' identity will take her, especially in regards to superhero and legacy mantles.

[lukazade]

These kids are NOT studying rn

[qweenofurheart]

oldest 🦇 youngest 🦇

[leblogreblog]

I know there's been lots of people choosing Cardinal as a more unique new hero name for Tim (cause let's be honest, him mashing up names of two first people he could think of, both of which are his brothers, AND also a name of a fastfood chain is pretty lame).

But aside from the fact that there's already a marvel hero called Cardinal, people aren't choosing the obvious superior option:

Redstart

Redstarts are part of the same family as robins and are closely related. The painted redstarts however, on which I'm basing my idea, are not (and are classified as "whitestarts" and are only in the same genus, not family, but are still misnamed as redstarts due simillar looks), which would connect him to his origins as robin while still keeping him a separate entity.

It contains part "red" as the RR does and "start", which not only could reference his "new start" but also, considering that the "start" in the name is also archaic word for "tail" could reference him "tailing" behind the clues about Bruce's status during his debute.

The Old World name of the genus, Phoenicurus, could also reference his "rebirth" as a new hero.

Edit: redstarts are also apparently traditionally used as a symbol of change, transformation and new beginnings, which again.

Also, his suit and the painted redstart coloration and its configuration are basically the same

(pictures for comparision so you can see what I mean)

Also, his feather cape looks kinda like the redstarts tail if you replace the red on it with white, which they fan when seeking and "hunting" for bugs to make them come out

your honor, these are the same picture

Edit: so I made a post like this about Jason if you're interested