amitys-shenanigans

[amitys-shenanigans]

Keeping it short today but:

Unaligned =/= pro endo

Unaligned =/= endo neutral

Unaligned =/= anti endo

and if you cannot grasp that fact then don’t you dare engage in syscourse

And don’t you dare harass someone for their nuanced opinions, not everyone wants to be put in a damn box.

[amitys-shenanigans]

Telling ANYONE to go unalive themselves is fucking disgusting. I don’t care who you are saying it to, if you say stuff like that then you are fucking disgusting and honestly should go touch grass

To the endo community, im so sorry that people have been spamming this syscourse tag with bs like that, its honestly just disgusting that people even attempted to do something like this.

We may be anti endo, but we do not support this sort of behavior whatsoever. Yall deserve better treatment and this aint it

[amitys-shenanigans]

Okay so apparently the syscourse tag exploded with bait accounts posting unreality and suibait.

Honestly, we're probs just not gonna post any real syscourse today, I'd recommend not looking at the tag at all if you don't have these new bait blogs blocked.

To anyone reading this, especially created plurals and those sensitive to unreality; this is all real. You aren't dreaming or anything right now, you do exist and that's not going to change. All the people saying otherwise are just lying to try and make you upset, don't listen to a word they say.

I know we're anti endo, but we don't want endos of any kind to die. We don't want you to stop existing. We may not agree with how you label yourselves, but we do still believe you are plural. We know you aren't lying about yourselves or your experiences.

-Milkyway

[amitys-shenanigans]

Wow some people are apparently speedrunning getting banned.

Be careful in the tags y'all. Lots of repeating text encouraging SH/suicide.

[amitys-shenanigans]

Gonna add smth here to add onto starstruck sillies’ point:

If people posting miserable content bothers you then you literally have the option to ignore it. You have the option to just live on your own terms without shittalking about anti endos who are trying to navigate through the world while being so traumatized that their BRAIN CHEMISTRY IS PERMANENTLY ALTERED. Traumagenic systems do not need more problems from pro endos, they are already trying to navigate and survive.

The pro endo community is complicit in the ableism and the excessive pride that exists among MANY endos who treat CDD systems as inferior. We have seen it, our friend here who im reblogging has seen it, and SO many of our other friends who have been harassed, bullied, and called names for having a mental illness that is constantly seen as being appropriated by the pro endos community.

Dont be surprised when these communities are defensive, when they don’t want to be allies. Until pro endos fix their mindset on how they treat CDD systems, until they get rid of the ableism, and until anti endos learn to not be so aggressive and that not every single endo is necessary the scum of the earth, nothing will change. Don’t be putting the blame on just us, you’re no better than we are in terms of the issues we let people get away with in our own community. We’re not perfect, and neither are you, yet you continue to act like we are somehow worse than yall.

Maybe instead of calling us a bouncer with a clipboard, go listen to CDD systems. Read their experiences, and actually do something to improve your own community and its reputation. If you sit here and complain about anti endos, you are basically being complicit of the problems that are in your own community

About allyship with anti-endos:

It’s hard to be an ally to someone who won’t… let me exist.

I fully support CDD systems. I research, I do my best to understand, and I advocate for their ability to exist freely in spaces.

In turn, I am kicked out of CDD spaces (despite having a CDD diagnosis). I am harassed regularly for endogenic headmates. I am told I could never understand what it’s like, to stop pretending I have a disorder, and to “just accept I’m roleplaying.”

There’s some CDD spaces I thrive in, and I’m thrilled to be in them. Many book studies and things. And each and all of them are accepting of endogenic systems — not of them joining a CDD exclusive space, but just… of existing.

It’s just really fucking hard to be an ally for someone who hates that I exist and tells me they want me dead on the reg.

I understand that completely, and I do know there are plenty of issues in anti endo spaces, but I really feel like it was important to point out many of the issues I've seen in their communities too.

-Toby

[amitys-shenanigans]

Hey, don’t fucking do this. Seriously. I’m as anti-endo as the next guy, but invading their spaces to attack them is not cool.

You guys wonder why they think we’re awful people, and then go and do shit like this. Leave them alone. You’re just validating those that come into our spaces to bother us.

Stop it. You’re not doing anything but pissing people off and turning them against you. Use your fucking brain and just avoid those spaces.

“I love not respecting people’s boundaries, but if they do it to us they’re bad.” Hypocrites, the lot of you. Knock it the fuck off.

[amitys-shenanigans]

A Masterlist of Issues within both communities: Anti and Pro Endos

NOTE: These are mostly generalized and the most notable problems that affect everyone. This doesn’t include one off incidents or assumptions that have been made by one side (at least it shouldn’t). If there are any inaccuracies, PLEASE LET US KNOW!!! If you want to add to this list, feel free to send us an ask. This list doesn’t necessarily apply to those who are in the middle, nor does every person in the community have these issues.

Issues within the Anti-Endo Community:

- Lack of empathy for endogenic systems and other non traumagenic origins***

- Using aggressive tags such as #endos fuck off

- Often not educated on what the pro endo community claims (though this is a very nuanced discussion)***

- Aggressive behavior towards endos that is often unnecessary

- Bullying, lots of it

- Harassing people in the middle who either don’t have a stance or their stances are nuanced

- Treating the whole other community as ableist when most people are genuinely just trying to exist***

***These issues have nuanced discussions about whether or not its right or wrong, and often have valid arguments from BOTH sides that need to be accounted for when deciding what the conclusion is. These topics will be discussed further in depth with reasoning below:

1. - Lack of empathy for endogenic systems and other non traumagenic origins***

Anti endos often do not account for the fact that many endos are simply just trying to exist. While it’s understandable why this lack of empathy exists (due to repeated harassment, endos causing trauma to anti endo individuals, the rampant ableism that exists in the pro endo community that is not addressed by their own community, calling anti endos sysmed and equating plurality to gender identity, etc), it should not be encouraged. This issue is often be the reason for why the bullying and harassment from anti endos is rising. While it’s understandable to have bitter feelings for pro endos due to valid reasons, treating them with a lack of empathy is often not a good idea. Should an anti endo ever come across any pro endos, they have the option to block, filter tags, and avoid pro endo spaces. Treating them with a lack of empathy is unneeded as there are steps that they can take to avoid interaction all together.

2. - Often not educated on what the pro endo community claims (though this is a very nuanced discussion)***

Anti Endos often make claims about the other community, such as the use of the word “traumascum” being created and used by pro endos. The use of this word is not common in the other community, in fact, the use of this word is incredibly discouraged by many pro endos. This is one example of slight misinformation. Another example is claiming that endos claim to have CDDs. While there have been cases of endos truly claiming these things, this is not as common as one might expect. Many of these claims are often nuanced but for the most part, are generally washed out in terms of their real context and origin (such as the origin of the word traumascum being mostly unknown by many people). This topic will be further discussed in future posts

3. - Treating the whole other community as ableist when most people are genuinely just trying to exist***

This is a nuanced topic due to how complex it is. While the pro endos community is rampant in ableism, the general population is usually just trying to exist, and are typically not engaging in syscourse or harassing unless provoked. Many argue that the concept of endogenic systems is ableist, due to the fact that the person who coined the term no longer endorses it due to its problematic nature for many (early users used this term as an act of ableism). But now, this has slightly shifted, as the number of endogenic systems rises, indicating a possible trend that is underrepresented and not researched enough. While the exact term is rooted in somewhat ableism, the concept may not (though again, this is a nuanced topic that has no definitive answer as of now). *needs more information and clarification, if anyone wants to fill in or correct me then send us an ask*

Issues within the Pro-Endo Community:

- Normalization of ableism and appropriation of CDDs

- Repeated harassment towards syscourse engagers or even just innocent bystanders

- Cultural appropriation of tulpamancy

- Using medical terms for non traumagenic plurality

- Using the word sysmed

- Encouraging the slogan “The Future Is Plural”, implying that everyone should be plural, which also implies that more people should be traumatized even if it was not the intention***

- Invading spaces and anti endo tags

***These issues have nuanced discussions about whether or not its right or wrong, and often have valid arguments from BOTH sides that need to be accounted for when deciding what the conclusion is. These topics will be discussed further in depth with reasoning below:

1. - Encouraging the slogan “The Future Is Plural”, implying that everyone should be plural, which also implies that more people should be traumatized even if it was not the intention***

This is something that most pro endos who endorse the concept don’t think much about. While this concept/slogan is done without much ill intent, it’s implications say otherwise. Implying that the “future is plural” indicates that more people should be plural. This fails to recognize that the slogan unintentionally promotes the traumatization of more people in order to make them into systems. It is unknown by us on why this slogan exists, but implying that plurality should be normalized and more apparent also implies that there should be more CDD systems, which ultimately implies that there should be more traumatized individuals. This is why this slogan is problematic. *more info and clarification needed as OP is not fully educated on this topic, this is our understanding of this slogan*

Possibility of Inaccuracy

This post is meant to highlight issues in both communities. If there are ANY inaccuracies please let us know. This post will be linked on the pinned, as it is an important list that both communities must pay attention to. This list needs updating and polishing, along with action from both communities on working together with their own to stop or fix these issues.

These issues are also written from our perspective, therefore, are subject to possible bias. If this is the case, let us know, however, you need to provide us with proper information about why it may be a biased assumption.

[amitys-shenanigans]

Hot take but we should honestly just try to respect each other. I understand why many anti endos dislike pro endos a lot but it does not take a lot to show basic respect or at the very least, some distance.

I honestly applaud people who are able to handle and withstand harassment. This community is sometimes a warzone and it takes a lot of courage to handle it all.

I hope everything gets better for everyone.

[amitys-shenanigans]

Y’all might be interested to learn that the word “traumascum” is used by anti endos as a gotcha to invalidate endos WAY more than any endo has seriously used the word.

If you don’t believe us you can just search up the term on any social media site of choice. 9 times out of 10 the instances of this word are anti endos complaining about some nebulous pro endos/endogenic systems using it. In reality, endos and pro endos don’t say that word for the most part.

In our 7+ years in plural spaces we have never seen a single pro endo system use this word. We have however seen anti endos use it countless times in order to further justify their endo hatred.

Right.

I just searched the term on tumblr in the search bar and yknow what I see? I don’t see anti endos using it on endos or to justify invalidation, I see them being visibly upset that such a term even exists

This is what i saw. Now, I am sure some anti endos probably do use it to invalidate endos, I wont deny that, but the origin of this word is literally to target traumagenic systems. And if anything, the reason why you see anti endos use it themselves now is because they are trying to reclaim it. Should they use it to hurt? No. But the reason why you might be seeing anti endos using it more is because of the reclaiming.

Its great that pro endos don’t use it as much anymore, but that was not always the case. Its great that the pro endos community has shifted away from the term all together. But I know many people who have been harassed by pro endos and actually called a sysmed or traumascum or just harassed for explaining CDDs TO THIS DAY.

You may not have seen it yourself, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Theres literally thousands of system blogs and accounts on Tumblr, and in some places, it is still being used. 7 years is a lot, ill give you that, but unless you are deep in the system community and have been in many different spaces and not just one part of it, you wouldn’t know what others have gone through if you have never engaged with that side of the community.

Using the word traumascum on ANYONE in a derogatory manner is wrong. Anti endos invalidating endogenic experiences and lacking empathy for them is wrong, theres better ways to discuss about non disordered plurality vs disordered plurality without hurting anyone, which is something that anti endos often struggle with. But yknow what else is wrong? The fact that a word like this even exists, which I am pretty sure, was originally made by close minded pro endos because they refused to treat trauma survivors with basic respect. And THAT, is what anti endos are mad about so they are now trying to reclaim it.

If you wanna know more, ask other anti endos (who are open to speaking to pro endos because again, not everyone is). Learn about how they feel about the term. You’ll be surprised to learn that most anti endos just want to reclaim the term and want to be left alone.

I’m glad most pro endos have shifted away from terms like traumascum, but thats just it, its only most of them. The term is still alive and being used on traumagenic systems. And even if this term is gone, sysmed is still being actively used. And that term is just as bad, and it hurts everyone.

[amitys-shenanigans]

Its been ages before I have had to speak up about someone elses harmful actions since that system hottake blog.

But I am actually done just sitting around doing nothing when anti endos like this person are encouraging bullying towards endogenic systems

This doesn’t make me any less anti endo, nor does it mean that we support endogenic systems, in fact, we personally don’t believe that it’s even possible to be endogenic and that most of them are either:

- misguided by those who prey on minors (like sophie),

- have DID but don’t remember their trauma,

- are confusing their symptoms for DID when they probably have a different disorder,

- are experiencing something that no one is able to give a proper name to so they make it sound like a CDD when it’s clearly not,

- or are just straight up insane (ahem, like sophie)

You do not, under any circumstances, bully people, even if they have hurt you or you really really hate them to the core. “Oh but endos are evil, they’re ableist scums of the earth and they constantly hurt us and shit-” YOU DONT STOOP TO THEIR LEVEL.

Wanna know why they absolutely despise us? This is why

When you give radical anti endos a platform to speak, a platform to target endos who are most likely just trying to exist, you get people bullying them. You get people who are attacking the other community and harassing them. When you enable radical anti endos a platform to speak, you are hurting both communities

Anti endos have been fighting for ages to get basic respect from the other side and to just be left alone and not have people roleplay or romanticize the disorder, but radicals literally undo all the hard work by giving pro endos a reason to bully and harass back and invalidate all of us because of a select few, which is also exactly how we treat them when we are being attacked by people like sophieinwonderland or other radical pro endos

I could probably guarantee you that the majority of the system community just wants this useless fighting to stop and for all the bullying, harassment, and ableism to stop. I can guarantee you that most people on BOTH sides are not fully one or the other, and that we fall closer to the middle and have nuanced stances on certain topics. We are not robots, we have complex opinions, and syscourse is no exception.

If you don’t want the other side to interact with you then block them and set your boundaries. Filter out tags you don’t want to see, block people like this person who you know are toxic and hurt people regardless of what their stances are. You are responsible for how you want to interact and contribute to the community. It is your responsibility to be the better person.

And if you see problems within your own community, SPEAK UP ABOUT IT. When you stay silent knowing that you have seen the problems that exist within the community, you are complicit in the bullying and harassment. You are letting radicals dictate the reputation of your community. This goes for both anti and pro endos. Stop staying silent, otherwise nothing will change.

I know this system community can do better. I have seen the good from both sides. We really should stop fighting and actually respect each other and understand that our experiences are different from one another and it doesn’t automatically make their experiences invalid just because they don’t match yours. Who knows, if we can actually get along we would be a lot more empathetic towards each other and maybe, JUST MAYBE, we could stop the actually ableist fuckers and the bullies who are ruining it for everyone. We could actually work together and take down harmful spaces like r/syscringe and r/fakedisordercringe, these harm BOTH COMMUNITIES and are places that ENABLE BULLYING AND FAKECLAIMING.

Nothing gets done when people stay silent, when people stay divided, and when you ignore the problems in your own community that the opposition has constantly been highlighting on for ages. Learn what makes someone radical in their beliefs, learn the difference between what is actually wrong versus what is just an opinion that conflicts with your own beliefs because those two are NOT the same. Learn to stay away from toxic spaces and warn others of these places, like the K9 Cave server on discord or r/syscringe on reddit. Educate yourself, not just on CDDs and how they actually work but also on endogenic experiences and how they affect people who genuinely believe that they are endogenic. You may not personally believe in them, but if you stay educated on these topics then it benefits both communities and you could actually help someone who may have something misunderstood or is unknowingly spreading misinformation about it. You really can’t expect pro endos and endos to do their research about CDDs but then also not listen to their experiences and their ideas on the complexities of plurality. You don’t have to agree with it, but if you refuse to even listen to them then its pretty hypocritical to ask them to listen to you.

I don’t have to accept their experiences as pure fact or scientifically proven, but I can respect it and be empathetic instead of bullying them and understand that in reality, we don’t know everything. I shouldn’t have to risk “looking like a pro endo” or seem like I am siding with them when I am very much anti endo to get this point across:

That bullying someone for having completely different opinions, views, and experiences is wrong, and you cannot justify it.

I’m not here to say that “oh endos are valid” or “oh endos are invalid” that is not my point. My point is that even if you don’t share the same views, opinions and experiences with them, you have no right to bully them.

There is a fuckton that we don’t know. This world is already against all of us in general. The best we can do is work together and have basic respect for each other. Just, basic respect, you don’t even need to interact with the other side, just respect each others boundaries.

Please reblog and share this, both anti and pro endos. And please don’t go harassing this person, don’t give them a reason to target you. This post is incredibly important for both communities especially since the rise of bullying from BOTH sides has caused extreme turmoil for those who end up getting caught in the crossfire.

[amitys-shenanigans]

Being Anti Endo is knowing that the more we excuse them as 'just kids' the more endos we're allowing to exist. Some people just need to be bullied until they stop faking a disorder

It feels wrong encouraging people to bully children but this time I'm kinda here for it. Adult endos have no excuse for their behaviour so why should we excuse teenagers doing the exact same thing. sure it's all sorta 'monkey see monkey do' but those teenagers are not helpless and shouldn't be faking a disorder

[amitys-shenanigans]

Our syscourse code :p (i dont think we made one yet so here)

Please note: We dont typically engage in syscourse in the first place but we are putting this out here so ppl know what our stances are on things more clearly.

Do you believe in endogenic plurality?

✊(M) - if/when i see credible proof

Opinion on tulpas

💙(TA) - Against

Do you think endos just don't remember their trauma

📗(MTR) - I think a lot of them don't

Opinion on shared spaces

🔻(ASP) - I am against it

Do you think endogenic plurality is comparable to transX

🔇(ONA) I have an opinion but would prefer not to state it

Do you think you can have DID/OSDD/UDD without trauma

🌑(DTNO) - No

Do you think introjects from other cultures should be able to use that culture's names if they aren't bodily part of it (eg. Japanese introject using Japanese names, while in a white body)

🟦(CNNU) - Nuanced opinion / other

As long as the name itself is one that isn’t a culturally sacred name or a religious sacred name then I think for the most part it’s okay, it’s better to ask someone from that culture though. If you’re unsure of a name, do your research or find alternatives. Better to be safe than sorry.

Unrelated but I also think that people should just mind their own business about someones name unless they’re very clearly appropriating it (ie, using a cultural name on an OC and making fun of said name, our ex did that once 💀)

Before you come after us for this, yes, we are quite literally a POC system. And we know what its like to see our culture and our names being appropriated and made fun of. So no it’s not like we don’t know anything.

Opinion on researched self diagnosis

🌳(SDXI) - If the person has done extensive research it's okay

Sysmed as a term

🌦(SMA) - Against it

Traumascum as a term

🥧(TSA) - I am against it

Endogenic systems using the term 'system'

🐲 (ESO) - I think they should use other terms

Endogenic systems using the term 'alter'

🐝 (ESO) - I think they should use other terms

Xeno-origins

🐟 (XEA) - Against it

Syscourse carrd link

[amitys-shenanigans]

gonna move some of my other syscourse shit to here through reblogging cuz ye

[amitys-shenanigans]

sup my fellow hiveminds, this is my syscourse blog

Will I regret this? Probably. But honestly this is a place where I will attempt to highlight the stupidity and the hypocrisy of BOTH communities because let’s be real, no one’s a saint here 😭

The system community is at such a low rn and being on it is exhausting. So instead of me trying to rage at one community with childish anger and hatred just because I don’t agree with them (like the 90% of the syscourse blogs, no offence) , I will instead call shit out from BOTH sides so yall are actually paying attention to the right shit instead of blaming each other for your own problems and issues that you caused.

I will post my own thoughts on here, I have my opinions too, but I am not gonna be harassing anyone (and if I have offended you or hurt you in any way then I am very sorry ;-;)

Quick boundaries before anything:

- USE TONETAGS IF YOU CAN PLEASE

- If you are not even gonna bother reading my entire post then don’t respond with bullshit

- I am not gonna be trying to justify if endos are valid or not or which side is better, the whole point of this blog is to get both communities to stop being dicks at each other, so please don’t harass us over the validity of non-traumagenic ppl and try to “prove to us” that endogenic systems are scientifically possible because we have our own beliefs on that and we will decide on our own terms and do the research ourselves. On the flip side, don’t harass or annoy us for simply listening to pro endos voices who are genuinely concerned and hurt.

- If you can’t handle seeing someone have a wildly different opinion than you then don’t talk to us

- If you wanna vent, you can, but please do keep in mind that this is primarily a blog for syscourse and to also be respectful. I get that it can get painful and that you are hurt, but calling people names and shit and being toxic because of their stance hurts everyone. If you are too angry then maybe you should vent elsewhere or take a step back for your mental health. KEEP THE VENTS IN ASKBOX /nm

- If you notice something wrong within your own community, you can tell us. We recommend showing us screenshots and other evidence if possible, however, this is not necessary.

- Tell us immediately if something is inaccurate. Do not assume that we will fix it on our own if we don’t know.

- I DO NOT TOLERATE BULLYING. YOU WILL BE REPORTED, BLOCKED, AND CALLED OUT IF I SEE YOU BULLYING ANYONE

Anyway heres the DNI:

- Sophie (you better not touch my damn blog)

- Radical blogs (get out)

- Transphobes, homophobes, racist, MAGA supporters

- Radqueers

- Proshippers

- Shitty debaters/if you can’t have a healthy argument with anyone without being a dick (go read a book first before you come at me with weak arguments and harassing me for bs that I never said)

- Anyone who is harassing my mutuals for no good reason

- Ableists

Who can interact:

- Anyone in the system community, including but not limited to: anti endos, pro endos, endo neutrals or other stances, traumagenic and non traumagenic systems, mixed origin systems, questioning systems, etc

- Anyone who actually knows how to read 😭 (please actually read my posts carefully before getting mad at us for something that we never said)

- Anyone who doesn’t fall under the DNI

MASTERLIST POST :

Navigation:

#general syscourse - general shit

#call outs - calling out the idiots

#heavy syscourse - heavy shit

#—amity posts - normal sane posts

#—vents - vent post

#—amity askbox - shit from da box :p

#—random - random shit

#—amity syscourse code - our syscourse code, please read